Comment5: NEVER have I heard of an honest person having their life ruined by pyramid schemes. Never. It's always the scammers that scam each other. Much like Robert and what's her name are doing with this very fvking detailed video which might give some people hope in these desperate times. Yes, these are desperate times. It's obvious just by seing how desperate these 2 are.
If Robert calls me out on this I’ll scream… But did anyone else love looking through their grandma’s Avon book as a kid? Never realized it was an MLM but is a core memory as a child😂
Same! 😂 Avon and Mary Kay. And my grandma would always let me pick things, which I of course loved doing! And I remember the lady coming in the pink convertible and being like…I WANT ONE!! Ahh, to be a completely innocent kid again who knows nothing of the big bad world 😅
I was obsessed with those tiny adorable lipstick samples!! My mom's Avon lady was an older widowed woman who always came to the door in lovely dresses and beautiful makeup and hair. She was very pretty and sweet and her name was Eileen. Loved the book, too!
Avon is a fond childhood memory for me too. My grandmother had tons of Avon makeup. As an outsider, Avon has always seemed to be the least MLM type of company to me. I have never seen a social media post about Avon recruiting, but that is just me. One thing that Avon does that drives me crazy, is they discontinue tried and true products that I loved. They used to have a Magix primer. It was like $10 for a 6oz tube. It was blurring and covered pores, giving you a soft, powder like finish. I would often wear it with just a little mascara and lipstick as a busy mom of 3 small kids. They discontinued it many years ago. I recently looked through an Avon catalog, and it is almost unrecognizable as the same company we grew up with. They have so many sub brands and now sell cleaning products, which kind of puts them in the Melaluca /Amway lane.😢
Ex Mary Kay mlmer here, they tried to sell us a class with their head make up artist and say we would be certified make up artists......for $300. I questioned how we would become licensed with the state if we did it. Oh boy was I shunned, the main director even called me and chastised me. When I told her I know our state law and we have to follow specific regulations and pass certain criteria if we are applying product to people's faces, my independent beauty consultant contract got canceled withing 24 hours and was told everyone in my unit got a email saying they couldnt have contact with me, my director got my team and commissions for that month. Girl bye, I dont want to lie and not be in compliance with the law.
Shunning? Wow, I've seen some cult survivor content (Cults to Consciousness) That's exactly what the Old Order Amish, or FLDS do. Well done on making your escape!
That is terrible that they treated you that way. I heard a story on an anti-MLM channel recently about a lady who had sold Mary Kay for 40 years. Apparently, Mary Kay has some kind of retirement program, but ONLY if you meet certain sales criteria. This woman, who gave 40 years of her life to Mary Kay, was just slightly below the retirement program criteria, and she was given nothing! So sad. These companies claim to empower women, but they do not care about their consultants.
Yeah I did a 600 hour clock hour program and got my makeup artist certification. I’m not sure how many hours are necessary to be a certified makeup artist but I’m sure it’s more than a few hours lol
They really are!! I used to buy mlm products to "support" my friends, even though I knew the business practice was bad I still wanted to "help" them. But those days are gone. I do them a greater service by not buying their products and thereby hoping that they get out of them sooner because they can't find success.
Me, too! I think it’s so important to educate people about MLMs. I’ve had so many friends and family get involved with various MLMs over the years and seen how destructive they are. Once I knew more about the practices, I stopped supporting them in any way, which was sadly detrimental to a few relationships. I highly recommend season 1 of The Dream podcast as a follow up for info about why MLMers insist they aren’t pyramid schemes (spoiler alert-the technicality is paper thin) and the history of abusive and shady tactics employed to get people into what are essentially cults. Scary stuff. Props to Robert & CC for using their platforms to talk about this! Ok, now off I go to finish watching this video-I got so excited to had to comment right away lol
They’re now doing online parties. I’ve been invited to several facebook MLM parties in the last few years. That’s not even a real party! If you’re going to pressure me to buy an overpriced mop or a makeup product that gives me a rash, at the very least, you should give me a cupcake or some chips.
My Mom fell victim to an essential oil MLM. Those people had her convinced she was some kind of shaman medicine woman or something. One day I heard her yelling out in pain, and when I ran into her room she was crying out “I’m in so much pain idk what to do, it’s not working, it ain’t doing nothing.” She was rolling an oil roller over her leg. Instead of taking her medications that kept her from having chronic leg cramps and other types of severe chronic pain, she was convinced her medication was “toxic” and that the essential oils would better manage her pain. These people prey on people like my Mom, desperate to make money, desperate to take control over things like chronic pain. They sell them a LIE. People like my Mom suffer monetarily at best, and at worst physically and medically when they are manipulated into thinking “holistic” methods can save them and make them rich.
Ugh I’ve spent thousands of dollars I definitely do not have over the years on so much snake oil to try to help my chronic pain from autoimmune disease. Reiki, chiropractors, acupuncture (this helped with one provider and bruised me/did nothing with another), more lotions and potions than you can imagine. I also started believing some whacky shit like if I healed my inner child enough my diseases would go away and I would feel better. It’s so hard to be in a desperate, vulnerable position, so I very much feel for your mom. I hope she’s doing ok
I hope you're mum is okay now. I abhor the essential oil MLMs . They are dodgy at best at incredibly dangerous at the worst. A lot advocate for taking essential oils orally instead of seeking professional medical advice or you know, creating healthier life habits. A lot of these essential oils are NOT safe to ingest and many also require a carrier oil if applied. It is absolutely disgusting to see this peddled towards vulnerable people.
Essential oils work but not like that. That’s so sad I hope she’s okay. Give her tart cherry juice not from concentrate at night every night organic as well. I have chronic back pain due to my spinal arthritis. That juice is amazing! Find some at any grocery store
"when you look at someone with rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like... flags." one of my favorite quotes from Bojack Horseman. that's too much, man.
It wasn't this exact video, but I'm greatful I watched one of Robert's videos where he mentioned sent a couple weeks ago. I was about to reach out to be color matched.
Not gonna lie, as a woman over 30 (who is professionally trained by the way back in '06 in beauty and special effects makeup) I am a tad offended by the woman who said this video is for women over 30 who don't know how to do their makeup and maybe shop at Walgreens or drug stores. First of all most of the "over 30s" grew up as this industry started to blow up on TH-cam and as makeup became a pretty big thing. Also there is NOTHING wrong with shopping at Walgreens and other drugs stores for your makeup. There are some stellar drug store brands out there. I know she is trying to sell her products but this part of whats wrong with these MLMs, especially in the beauty industry 🙄 Putting women down to make a sale. Either by their age or budget or where they shop or skill level. SHAME ON THEM!
Right?! Some of my favorite daily use, will always own kinda products are drug store and they're telling grown adult people "don't use that stuff! Come instead to this brand that NO ONE has EVER heard of." Lol it's very silly.
Excuse me, but can we all take a moment to admire Robert's immaculate makeup and the smokey eyes in particular. Enhancing the brow scar with a golden hue is pure genius. You look smashing darling
It’s a scar? I’m going to try stealing that for my own eye, although my own scar is more along the eye socket where the eyebrow ends so maybe it will look weirder on me 🤔
I sold Avon off the back of my motorcycle as a teen. Couldn’t afford to fill the car with gas but I always had makeup at the ready! Even then I knew I was selling it just to break even on my beauty habit.
Even if it wasn't stated specifically in this video, I am here to emphasize a point that is what I think being made. They target the most vulnerable groups of people. Women, stay at home mom's, people of lower income economic status, people who (as Robert said) been victimized of these patterns in their past, and so many other minority groups. Don't. Let. Them. Win. ❤
So true. MLM’s were really having a moment during the height of the pandemic. Why? Because people were broke and desperate. Any business model that takes advantage of broke and desperate people is not a business I want to have any part of.
Immigrants are also a big one! As well as people with mental illness. I know a few people who have been victims of these schemes more than once, especially those with multiple vulnerabilities. I actually ended up at a lunch with a guy trying to rope me and a friend in. Dude straight up drew a pyramid when explaining how everything worked, like the situation wasn’t dodgy enough. I ended up cussing him out at a later date when he tried to hassle again.
My mum got into an MLM when she was terminally ill with cancer. She wanted to make some extra money to supplement her sick pension. She didn’t make any money obviously. She died in 2006, and the thought of how they took advantage of her still makes my blood boil.
I feel this way about Colorstreet. Strips of cool nail designs and colors that you don't need any special equipment for that just comes off with acetone??? They would have made a KILLING during the panny-d. Why are they an MLM???
Why are they so obsessed with it being for 30/40 year old skin?! Like we can’t wear regular makeup?! I actually feel insulted by their focus on it even working for my ancient skin 🤣
Same! I wear so many other brands that aren’t scams that look amazing on my 44 year old skin. It’s a turn off when brands push that “great for mature skin” crap. I have skin, and it’s not mature. It’s just skin.
@@RobertWelsh As a fellow makeup artist, this, especially as an Aussie MUA, one thousand times this. Tanning or just living life, especially in Australia, and not wearing sunscreen is how I've seen 27 year olds with skin so much harder to work with than people who are 67 who have protected their skin from literal radiation exposure.
I will never forget in the Luluroe documentary one of the women who left that MLM crying as they put a for sale sign in her yard because she could not longer afford to stay there with her children. She just kept saying to herself what will happen now. It was heartbreaking because no one should lose their home but especially not because of ugly leggings.
I remember that!!! The founders are the biggest a-holes going! The guy (I forget his name) made a video basically blaming the consultants if they have low or no sales, saying " you're stale and your customers are stale" And don't get me started on the Tijuana Skinnies!
I read an article about them and the big problem with them over some other MLMs is the amount of inventory you had to purchase to sell. If you wanted to get out, the company was supposed to buy it back but then either wouldn't or only wanted to pay pennies on the dollar (I don't remember which) so people got stuck spending tons of money on stock they couldn't sell. On top of that, they were so popular at one point that the market got oversaturated so they just ran out of customers along with product quality going downhill.
It annoys me that whereas pyramid schemes are illegal in the UK, our government don't see MLMs as the same thing in a different guise. We need to make MLMs illegal... 💔
Farmasi are coming to the UK next year and I’m already seeing people have their Facebook pages taken over by it, acting like it’s their own company that they’re starting up. It’s really worrying to see. Farmasi is just as bad as the rest but if you google them the first page is full of paid (allegedly) articles in their favour. It’s pretty scary.
Just to add. When MLM people quote ' we arent a pyramid scheme because we sell a product!' That is NOT a defining difference. There are many pyramid schemes that have been shut down and sued eventhough they sell a product. What IS a defining aspect is making the majority of your income, from recruitment and not product sales. Remember that. Its the RECRUITMENT, that makes it a pyramid scheme. Not whether they do or do not have a product
Nothing to do with the content but I just wanted to say I LOVE how you started incorporating your eyebrow scar, a "physical flaw" into your beauty makeup. It makes me think of the Japanese pottery that fills cracks with gold. It's just a small detail that can be inspiring to many ❤😊
I agree with you 100%. I don't try to cover up the scar on my nose because it was due to me having basal cell carcinoma that has started to spread so much I was in danger of losing my eyesight. I embrace my scars! I earned them!
Former Seint “artist” here. When the company first came out with the Demi line we had to spend hundreds of dollars to get the product, then submit videos in order to be “demi certified. I personally never tried to “certify” as MANY women submitted and failed multiple times. Also, if you weren’t Demi certified, you could sell the product, but you could not make any commission on it. That ended up being one of the MANY reasons I walked away from this company.
My old boss said to me, if it was that easy to make money, wouldn't everyone be doing it? That has stuck with me. This sounds fantastic, especially to someone young, naive and impressionable. I hate how MLM's prey on people. They're like a cult. Thank you for raising awareness. ❤
I was the same, an older couple were trying to suck me and my now ex husband into an MLM company, I was only around 19 or 20 and knew nothing about these. I spoke about it at my day job and the boss and engineers I was working with explained to me what a pyramid scheme was, and how they get round it as MLMs and that only a handful of people get rich off of everybody else's hard work. Thanks to them I stepped right away from that.
My teacher once told us that fast money and fast success usually mean you are doing something illegal to attain the fast money. Most people take years to be successful because they work hard to achieve there goals. While scam artists just get paid to cut to the top and are the first to fall back down .
My dad told me this when I was young and it's probably the best tool I've ever been given. If something is easy to do and will make you a fortune, everyone would do it. This is especially important advice to remember when people try to recruit you for work-from-home jobs that promise only an hour or two a day of work, but say you'll earn a month's salary every week. No, you won't.
Former military spouse... exact same experience. I got roped into one party before I knew what Scentsy was. I thought we were gonna do a cute wine and learn how to make oil diffusers night (like a paint and wine party), nope it was an extended sales pitch and one of the most uncomfortable 2 hours of my life.
SAME. I was told it was a girls night and it was a pure romance party. It was the most uncomfortable night and I only tagged along with a friend I had just met. So I sat there being encouraged to look through catalogs of sex toys in front of 15 women I did not know.
Army brat here.. I think the only mlm party my birth giver would attend that seemed interesting was one selling candles 😂😂 but those women were... 😅😅 scary amd definitely would've been called Karen's if that was a term when I was a kid
Keep in mind most of the time the “sales requirement” to stay active does not mean actually selling to people it just means the Huns have to buy enough product from the company. No actual job would make you buy product from them
Completely agree! I know some companies require $100 a month in personal inventory! 🙄 However, I am a former Seint artist and I never had to spend any of my own money every month to “stay active.” I spent $400 (NOT required, but I wanted it all lol) on an artist kit and made my investment back plus profit in 2 months. I did not have to purchase anything beyond that initial investment whatsoever. I also signed up during the pandemic with a ton of success. I no longer have the time which is why I say… former. 😊 I made 20% off of every sale no matter what. I did not have any sales requirements to get paid. If you hit goal you can earn up to 40% which I did many months. You do have to hit $240 monthly in order to make any commission off of your team though. So if I didn’t reach that, I made ZERO dollars off of my team’s work and effort. Just a little back office information because as much as MLM’s suck, Seint wasn’t bad in terms of “financial ruin” by any means. I don’t agree with some of the marketing, I didn’t like all of the products, and I’m not a “girl boss.” I just like the makeup honestly. 🤷🏼♀️ The “hun” mentality is gross to me. Not all makeup works for everyone and not a lot of artists are honest about that which makes my eye twitch.
I worked at the corporate level for an MLM in the 90s. The owner once told me, straight up, “we’re not selling products, we’re selling the desire of money”. The product doesn’t matter, skin care or a widget, it’s not about that. It’s about building your network (pyramid).
SEINT was the driving force behind the end of a 25 year friendship. Once someone who I called my sister...this person completely morphed into a disillusioned "girlboss" and began aligning herself with alt-right "Christian" values that completely drove a wrench between us. She stopped showing her individuality and began looking, speaking, and acting like a complete stranger. Nobody talks about the SEINT/MLM to alt-right pipeline. but I know this has happened to others. It broke my heart and I think about it to this day even though the friendship ended 3 years ago.
I am so so so sorry 💔 I grew up in evangelical christianity and a lot of the american women who came on mission trips or as staff were part of mlms. (Typically only short term, they married young and if you’re basically a trad wife you only travel if your husband wants to). It was jarring to have the person that was meant to mentor us peer pressure us into buying nail products. Thank god mlms aren’t as big in my country because the overlap in mentality and social circles with cults is scary af I really hope your friend gets out. I used to go to church even after it gave me ptsd and I had anxiety attacks when I went. I only got out when I became so chronically ill I couldn’t figure out how to force myself to go anymore, in between sermon recordings I had room to think for the first time!! Still not sure how to distance myself when almost everyone I know is part of it. My husband didn’t grow up in it but he’s still stuck sadly… I’m trying to get well enough to be independent and divorce him because the way it’s affecting our relationship is unbearable
Yes! I don’t know who did a deep dive on this, but there is a link between MLM’s and christo-fascist organisations and or cults in general. It’s the group think mentality and the suspension of disbelief in the extraordinary talents or origin story if “the leader” or founder that can reach almost mythical proportions. It’s the wilful overriding of your innate critical thinking skills software.
One of the important things to remember about MLMs is that the people buying the product aren’t the real customers. They are NOT where the vast majority of profit comes from. It comes from people who sign up to be salespeople. They force you to buy “starter kits” / subscriptions / overstock because it’s THE SELLER’S money they want. They don’t care what happens to the product once the seller gets it. The company already has your money!! The vast majority of people end up in debt with product they can’t get rid of because they already ran everyone in their life off by. You know. Trying to rope them in.
My friend got sucked into Tupperware in late 2021. Spent a couple grand just for the discounts. Still has most of it completely unused. Tried selling at local flea markets, not much luck. Now Aldi is selling it and my friend is stuck with it, giving it away and trying to clear the debt she's still in.
Basically this, my aunt (not biological, just mom's childhood friend) is an AVON saleswoman and she always just gave us AVON products for free as gifts because it didn't matter what happened with the products since she already paid for them. Side note, seeing Homestuck icons in 2023 gives me so much serotonin. Seriously, happy people are still into this.
Yeah, and to even qualify to retain your status as a consultant in these companies, you are requirec to spend a certain amount of money every month to stay active. Whether you buy for yourself or your "customers" doesn't matter. If you let your account go inactive, you won't collect any money you might have made that month. And nothing carries over, everything starts over from zero in the 1st of every month. Whatever little money you made, is immediately gone due to spending on more products and other fees. And don't forget the IRS- you will owe taxes on every cent you were paid, even after it's all been spent. It doesn't take long to rack up debt once you join an MLM.
Years ago, my Monat starter kit was $800. I never made even half of that investment back....and I'm a hairdresser! Monat makes ALL their money off the "huns" that are buying products, not outsiders.
@@grantmegan91monat does not destroy all hair. Some people it doesn’t work for but for some it’s been life changing. No I don’t sell the shampoo! I’ve seen it work wonders for my hair!
Someone I once worked with was struggling. Single mom, 4 kids, health issues. She bought into lip sense, spending so much money not just on the products, but a big decal for her car. She spent so much time promoting on Facebook, she was neglecting her actual job and eventually lost it. It was such a crappy situation and I felt so bad and frustrated for her. These companies suck.
I saw this happening to my coworker with doTERRA. The place I worked at had cameras everywhere. Our boss had been made aware that she was trying to sell her oils to all the customers (they were parents waiting for kids to get out of class so she had 45 minutes to harass them.) He warned her repeatedly and continued to catch her ON CAMERA! She was also giving dangerous advice that resulted in two ER visits. Only reason she wasn't fired was she had worked there 9 years and it's a hard job. She claimed she was being targeted unfairly. She constantly tried to rope me in and said she wanted to "bless" me with the opportunity. 🙃 It was hard on her family too, her husband was an employee and her kids were long time students. So embarrassing for them.
@@mst3kanitaat one point you have invested so much already, how can quit and declare all that money to habe been thrown away?! She was not not lying when she connected Satan with MLM, whether he be horned or allegorical.
Did she make any actual money initially selling the product? I’ve never done MLM so I don’t understand the allure but I’ve always wondered how people get sucked into it. There must be some initial incentive for people to keep going with it. Was it the camaraderie or pressure from her “team”?
My friend is in an MLM. I told her right away when she asked me to join her group. And I told her because years ago I was unknowingly apart of an MLM. She didn't seem to care and called it by another one of those other names that she CC said. She's dropped so much money and posts and time into the "business." Her first check was at least four months after she started at it was $300. Four months of continuing work and sales and that's all she made. Plus she was number one seller and got an award. A piece of paper, not cash. She's starting to rub out of people to push her stuff on. So she buys a ton from the company and makes "goodies bags" that are $30 but have stuff from the Dollar Tree and the least expensive item on their order form. For me, it's a no! She's working two regular jobs AND the MLM. And that says a lot. Plus she pays for the trips to other states to "learn how the business wirks" ect. And of course, she has to advertise it, for free!
Dude that sucks. A girl from my high school who was popular messaged me on Facebook for a couple of days to 'see how I was' after I started uni. I had just lost my job, it was almost Christmas. She tried her best to get me to join her pyramid scheme. I was confused because she was working at a hotel and posting 24/7 about her business, and said she was making loads. She didn't give me much info about the company, but said it was 200 to join. Luckily, I was literally stone broke... I couldn't afford it. I don't know if she's still in it but it was so sad because all I wanted was a friend, and thought she actually wanted to know how I was going 😂 I have a cousin in arbonne so thankfully I kind of knew what was going on lol.
So let's say she was working part time those 4 months which is 320 hours. $300 divided by 320 hours is $.93 an hour. My guess is if she figured out her profit and losses, she's in the negative and using her 2 jobs to pay for the MLM.
They never care, they don’t care about how it hurts someone as long as there’s a possibility they could have a down line. I had a woman try to rope me into Monat by telling me how good for me it would be because I’m an “Indian” so I don’t have to pay taxes. They have no shame.
What pisses me most about MLMs is that I went to school for massage therapy, skin care/makeup, and nail care and I am licensed in my state for all of them. Any random person can get involved in these MLMs and give "advice" regarding those areas, and insist their products are "one size fits all". I've had customers asking me for massage treatments with essestial oils, and when I explain that I am not a certified aromatherapist, they get mad and insist that their whomever does it, and they sell that brand (I'm not going to name, but ya know). I am trained in safety and proper technique, they are not. I have taken some courses, and read some things about aromatherapy, but not enough that I actively give advice to their use, as they can be dangerous. That oil company gives zero fucks about safety, and can cause some serious issues. Plus, their ingredients are horrific! Don't even get me started on the "facial" products....
I did an internship in massage school with a woman who did all of that essential oil stuff, including things that no educated aromatherapist would do (lots of oils undiluted on the skin). Luckily my mom is a chemist and has taught me some safety around chemical burns and essential oils but yikes!! She charged enough for her massages and she had great massage technique, it kills me she was "supplementing" her income into oblivion by shilling for an MLM
I have had*friends* try to push essential oil and diffusers on me. Then, they have the gall to mad, when I tell them it could be dangerous to my cats. I only use all natural products, why would I want to poison myself and my kitties
If I had a massage therapist tell me that they couldn't use a specific product in my session because they weren't certified, I would be so happy to get that response and probably always go to them because I could feel that much more confident in their integrity and training.
I think it's funny Raw Beauty Kristi has been talking about doing a HUGE MLM deep dive for YEARS, and she finally did it and its like.... 10min long? Thanks, Robert, for showing us a decent exploration
Edit: I wemt and looked and it was actually 28+ minutes. Idk, doesnt seem so bad. Can't believe it was so short, I remember her talking about it years ago
The funny thing about the Demi method is because you’re mostly adding color, everyone ends up with a way darker face than their neck, ears, or rest of their skin. 90s and 80s babies will remember the Maybelline Dream Matte Mousse dark orange faces, and honestly it’s giving that.
That Dream Mousse made it all the way into the 2000s too 😂 it was my first foundation in 2010. It gives me flashback, I hate to think how I looked and how NO ONE said anything about it bc we were all walking around with an orange face. Honestly that foundation formula wasn't bad, it was the shades that were bad.
I hate how I looked like the annoying orange but I kinda liked the texture (idk it just hit my neurospice) and it miraculously didn't make me break out 😂
@@banquo4223 I did not invent the term. Just heard it once and loved it, since it can also apply to not (yet) diagnosed people who most DEFINITELY do show symptoms of neurodivergence 😊
I loved the formula and found the right shade... that being said, I never was one to over apply nor leave it unblended. I did however over bronze my cheekbones and body with the BYS bronzer which was a orange gold 😂
My mom has started buying from seint and I tried to educate her about it being an MLM, but after teaching me about scams my whole life, she has chosen to turn a blind eye to it 🤦🏻♀️
@@RobertWelsh that's the worst! Ive had quite a few friends and family members get sucked into these things (thankfully its been years since that's happened), and I always felt like I should buy something to "support" them 😕
WHAT IS IT ABOUT MOMS maybe it’s just because they feel they know better inherently. My mom, the same thing. In fact, she was personally scammed out of 9 THOUSAND dollars by an MLM company and yet she seems to get her makeup exclusively through other MLM companies. They must be doing some kind of dark magic over there in their MLM cult group calls.
not me trying to find the "Example" comment before watching the whole video only to find the most supportive, logical, and emphatic babes. you have an amazing community here, Robert!! bravooooo.
MLM mentality is no joke. I live in India and my mom was targeted by an MLM "boss babe" to be one of their sellers, and when she laughed at their faces and told them to eff off, the response was just vile. I don't even need to read the comments to know these people are predatory and NOT your friend 🙄
Ugh…I heard Herbalife is really, really targeting the supplement market in India. I thought oh great, that’s a horrible US export. Glad your mom told them to take a hike.
When you leave an MLM, oh wow... "Cult- like" is very appropriate to describe what it's like. Luckily, I was in less than a year. That being said, during that time, when others would leave, how they would be bashed was unreal. Worse than any group of children, ever! I know I was talked about- I just did not care. To this day, my "upline" person, if she sees me out, turns and goes in another direction. Which is hilarious - as we are both in our late 40s. Unhinged...
@@raenoway Yeah the Herbalife crap was huge around 2016 here. My mom was approached by the neighbor ladies who worked for Oriflame (I think), and I swear the whole thing was like a scene out of "Rosemary's Baby". They made her buy stuff and try it on herself, but my mom has an off switch just like me and when she has enough, she tells people to stop and go eff themselves if they're being pushy. Those ladies later called my mom to berate her for wasting _their_ time, which was hilarious because they barged in themselves when we first moved in and pushed a bunch of products in our face.
I feel for anyone who is from another country and targeted, or an American and from a seriously low-income situation. We need some kind of lawsuit to set some change in motion
We’ve all fallen for this ❤ I thought I was going to be held captive in a woman’s house when she invited me over for a “makeover party”. She approached me when I worked at Circuit City and made it sound amazing. This was maybe 2004? I showed up to her house and I was held hostage by three women selling Mary Kay. They were so aggressive and bold!! They literally got my checkbook out of my purse for me to purchase a Mary Kay starter kit. I was so scared to say no, I was confused and just so fucking ignorant that I allowed that to happen to me. As soon as the kit came in the mail, I threw it in the garbage and changed my cell phone number. I hope those women are in hell lol
MK is the worst for that! Been there got invited to a "facial party" and I was never so glad I left my purse in the damn car in my life! Everyone got a turn to go into a room alone with the MK girl. I assume forced/talked into a purchase. Since they all bought some of that overpriced trash.
YES omg! A similar-ish situation happened to my friend TWICE. She's one of the sweetest people I know. A girl she went to high school with invited her to dinner to "catch up". When she got to the restaurant to meet up, the girl said "come join us upstairs!" and my friend said she thought "oh, she invited other people, no biggie" and walked into a fucking pyramid scheme party. She told me she gave her the stink eye and just left. The other time was at a someone's apartment, with similar "let's catch up, haven't seen you in a while" bullshit. Luckily she knew what it was when she saw it. Fuck pyramid schemes and them preying on other women. They were sooo prevalent ~2016-2018 on FB, it was wild. If you have to basically lie and hide what your actual motive is, why wouldn't that scream "hmm, this business model sucks?" Insanity!
Same thing happened to my mom and I!!! I'm 21 now and my mom and I were invited to that makeover party when I was a freshman in high school I think. My mom's friend invited us who was friends with a Mary Kay lady. Didn't really understand what was going on until the ~purchasing products~ portion of the party, and my mom explained to me (in Spanish, so they wouldn't understand) what was going on, and that we would just pay for a few products so we wouldn't be rude and then leave. I guess my mom realized after we were already there. We used up the MK products we bought and never again! I still get occasional birthday texts and letters with free samples from that MK lady but I'm too lazy to change my number so I just block hers😑. Thanks for sharing your story!! I was wondering if anyone here had a run-in with Mary Kay specifically in the past lol.
I went to some kind of “tupperware” (?) party as a kid with my mom where we were fed food. Mom was pretty unimpressed but content to nosh while I played with the cats. Did not realize what it was until later. Also went to a jewelry party because I thought the woman was selling her own stuff! That’s what I get for hanging out with artists…
Loved this video. Also, as somebody who grew up in Utah, MLMs are well loved by Mormons and that state. Apparently it's the unofficial MLM capital of the world. Thanks for the education!!!
Wow that's wild I had no idea and it makes sense honestly lol. No offense to any religion but that one is definitely a bit odd and now that I think about it, several people that I know who were practicing Mormons also participated in MLMs and one lady in particular who owned her own business started doing an MLM on the side, it was really weird but anyway, their first big meetup after the company started was in SLC. Thanks for helping me connect all the dots lol!
Not surprising-from inside the cult, they would not see the scam, or if they are high ups in the cult, they are professional scammers. I mean…Tim Ballard.♥️✌️
I’ve literally lost friends because I don’t want to buy their body shop etc stuff because they treated it like a personal offence for not buying their stuff and "supporting them". The mentality is crazy
It is very much a cult. My friend joined an MLM and it consumes all of her time and energy, she has blown me off numerous times to be with her “cult”. She explains it as a major business opportunity and how she could open her own spot one day when she has enough people under her. She has also posted so much false advertising to her page to get people to join her. It’s really sad to watch.
It’s really sad. I have a friend that’s bought into this mess as well. Specifically this product line. And I just refused to buy from MLM’s. And I feel like I’m getting heat from my friends now because I won’t buy any of this shitty makeup.
@@lralou8 it’s crazy how they don’t see what they’re doing. They see it as not “supporting them” but it’s really us not supporting a toxic company’s scheme. It’s such a prey type field. I get follows on social media from people I don’t know to not even follow a full day before the “hey hun!” Message, not to mention the people that say you can get $1500 if you comment on their post. It’s all traps and schemes, I have no idea why people do it. The time and energy they waste is ridiculous
I've been in THREE different MLMs in the past and luckily I came out unscathed, HOWEVER, we would stay up until midnight on social media trying to help people rank on the last day of the month, everyone wanted to pretend they were your best friend, and oh my gosh the SYMPATHY stories people would tell to get people to buy from them make me sick.
THIS!!! ALL OF THIS!!! I have been w two different ones and the amount of time and money I have WASTED is sickening. And truly, the amount of “friendships” I lost when I did what was best for myself and my family and left the company makes me sick. They don’t care about you. They care about you making them money. It’s truly a cult like environment. The moment you snap out of it and realize that it ain’t it, they ice you out.
That is a very sad thing about MLMs. People are all too happy to play friends when you are helping them meet sales quotas. As soon as you leave, they all drop you. I am glad you came out unscathed financially.
Robert is moving beyond make up to righteous anger and revelation against corporate, "Influencer" & brand malfeasance, mendacity and scumbag chicanery... I am HERE FOR IT!!! Loving the scar as a highlight and please keep on. We need you!!!
I once joined MLM. What I got from them were depression, ED, and losing lots of money. Before joining their team, they would say like “get easy money, just post on social media.” After joining, you would hear “you’re not doing enough. You need to sacrifice your life/money/friends for money that supports your future”
I've listened to some team calls that have been uploaded to TH-cam, and my god these people treat their teams terribly. If my boss (at my actual job where I actually get paid and get actual benefits) treated me like that, they would be lucky if I gave them notice instead of walking out on the spot.
I got a good laugh at the "girl who used to bully you" comment! It's so true - people who don't like you want to scam you into buying something. It was also the moms of boyfriends I dated in HS who tried to push their products on to me just because I was dating their son.
The girl who bullied mercilessly for three years sells R+F - definitely some schadenfreude there! She's a physical therapist, so it's probably not about the money. She probably got sucked in because she had a lot of acne and bought it herself...
These MLM people are so predatory. Unfortunately, my niece fell victim to an MLM and her mother doesn't care. Unfortunately, not a lot of family talks to her much because its always a sales pitch and not a visit. Shes so brainwashed, it's sad.
WAIT THE GOLDEN SCAR.... THAT'S SO FUCKING COOL... It reminds me of Kintsugi! That Japanese art of fixing broken pottery with gold so that the break shines as a beautiful feature. Love it!
I unfortunately got sucked into this back when they were Mascara 😢 I lost so much money! Stay away from MLM’s! Only the top 5 people actually make money off of your hard work! Believe me!
Im currently doing beauty in college. We had a little assingment about running are own salon and what that would entail. The last group was led my a girl who sells Tropic. She desinged her whole salon idea behind it and brought a bunch of products in with her. I was astounded that no one could see what was happening. She was ready with magazines and getting everyone to try the products. Lots of the girls who attend with me are either single mums or women trying to make ends meet and i knew exactly what she was trying to do.
Tropic are shameless. I've seen them at an event here in Edinburgh with their stall. Admittedly I have bought from them once when I was getting into skincare 😬 Had no idea about MLM's. Regardless of that the products were sh*t. The SPF irritated my skin and it went red and bumpy. Awful! It separated within a couple of days as well, it was so gross.
I had to laugh at the "demi method" demonstration video. Of course putting tiny dots of makeup on your face is going to look great if you already have great skin! "It covers my acne" what acne? Is the acne in the room with us now?
A lady tried to recruit me for one while I worked at Sephora she went above and beyond to ask about my haitian background and then offered me a possible job at her law firm. When we meet for the interview on my day off she tried to get me to give her $300 to start selling products 😟. I was so angry. I left and felt so sad that she wasted my time. I felt sad for her she seemed nice but was desperate to get me to join. A wild time smh. Can’t believe they are still doing this to people.
Was it her law firm or was she an employee? I would be pissed. If she was just an employee there I would report her to management. Either way, how shitty of a person do you have to be to use someone’s ethnicity AND their possible desire to move to another field of employment as a way to scam them.
Did you figure out why she was so interested in your heritage? Did she get bonus points for every minority recruited? (I’m kinda being a smart ass but kinda serious.. I wouldn’t put it past them)
I used to get sucked into clicking on Seint links because they really target older women. Now I recognize those dirty crusty all in one cream palettes and click off asap.
I lost a friendship over Mary Kay. Difference was that I just had become a licensed MUA back then and I worked on my own. This former friend got caught up in Mary Kay and kept telling me I did my job wrong and what not. Also that I would do more money if I also went with MK as my primary brand to use. This is 14 years ago. Also THANK YOU for saying Tiktok calling old techniques etc new silly names or think they've discovered something while we've been doing it for decades.
One of my best friends didn't realize she joined n MLM and neither did I, I ended up buying some skin care from her (this was also like 10 years ago) to help her out with her sales. Her manager took the credit for the sale, she got no money. I tried to return the shit I bought because I didn't want it from the manager and they ghosted me. It was Nu Skin. Who knows what garbage I ended up using on my skin. I'm sure James would gasp. They prey on young women who aren't knowledgeable on the subject yet. Thank you for continuing to spread awareness!
What I will never understand is how these "boss babes" have the b@lls to contact people they haven't been in touch with for YEARS, to try to scam them into joining their MLM. And of course it's usually vulnerable people like new mums. It's so gross. Thank Robert, this video is great ❤
Ok yes! I constantly get friend requests from people I barely know. I always go to their profile to see if they’re in an mlm and they always are. Just fishing for victims
YESS and it's always some clearly copy pasted text. Got a message from a childhood friend asking me to "review" some products because they needed testimonials to get started (whatever that even means). Then they offered me a "friend family discount" like what??? So basically you just want me to buy it. Why even bother wording it like you are asking for a favor or something when it's clear you just wanna get me to buy shit 😂. I really hope they got out.
You're encouraged to message like 20 people a day or something depending upon the mlm. Don't they realize people do not like getting asked to buy shit? Also don't they understand you eventually run out of people to sell and recruit? I think it's like ten cycles of recruiting 5 people that recruit 5 people and so on and so forth, that adds to more than the entire human population 😅. It's a shame though. I really like some products from mlms but I no longer support mlms themselves (not my friends that join thinking they'll earn money but don't) so I avoid the products.
A cousin of my mother tried make me join a MLM years ago. All the red flags and tactics that were talked about in this video, are exactly what I experienced. Cult like mentality; ridiculous over enthousiasm, mind blowing promises about money and financial autonomy , blind trust and adoration for a leader, pushy mentality about the products you are trying to sell to everyone, everyone wants to be your « friend » in this « wonderful adventure » and when you are making even one suggestion, criticism, you are « negative » and need to trust the process and reminded how the brand and the products are so incredible etc 🙄I was constantly pushed to organise meetings to present and sell products, to sell them to friends who would want to join the team and how I should have had participated to those wonderful huge meeting with their amazing ceo. Luckily for me the person who had recruited me, rapidly got on my nerves because of how pushy she was with me: I was supposed to make Instagram posts randomly with products explaining what a fairy tale I was living and how transformed I was after such darkness now I was in this company etc. And I was supposed to make lists of all people I knew to contact to sell them products and recruit them. I was very reluctant because I was strongly having the impression of a cult, and I fond the person which recruited me so fanatical that I was really reluctant. I also hated the fact you are constantly pushed to sell to friends and that this makes every interaction about money. So I cut short any contact never with my « recruiter » never bought those products again and I never want to hear from MLM again. And btw the company I am referring to, here is Forever Living an Aloe Vera products based company. Be very wary again and please boycott it. It’s a scam, a cult like predatory company.
As an ex Mormon from Utah I am no stranger to MLMs and cult-like mentality. Love both your channels, and love this collab speaking on such an important topic.
My cousins wife is in DoTerra and I was trying to tell her it's a commercial cult and she was like "I was a Mormon, I know about cults." And I'm like... THEN HOW COME YOU CAN'T SEE THIS ONE IS TOO?! It's sad...
My friend tried to pull me into Usanna and my ex mother in law tried to get me with doterra … I smelt both a mile away as fishy at 18-20 and as tempting as it sounds when they laid out the costs and everything I was like… there’s no freaking way most people have success here and I dropped it… I just don’t understand the people who are willing to fuck over the people closest to them for these MLM companies. I don’t mean that as harshly as it sounds… I don’t get it or most peoples behavior. I also appreciate you, Robert, for educating people on such an important and often misunderstood topic
Interesting you both mention doterra bc my first real job at 18 was as a customer service rep at their call center in headquarters, only stayed like three months bc it felt so icky. I left the church around the same time too.
Omg, everyone doing the “Demi method” looked like their faces were not only 2 shades too dark, but not even color matched, and the fact that it wasn’t blended into their necks made the shade/color difference even more glaring. So bizarre! #shudder
You also have to consider the economics of it all. If your income was truly based on sales, you would not want to create a surplus supply situation by adding more people who sell the same product in your area. Simple supply and demand. So if someone appears to be constantly recruiting, they aren't selling. They're hoping you'll swoop in and sell things so they can make money off your efforts.
I was full on bullied into signing up for youniuqe. When I complained about having a reaction to that mascara I was told I MUST be allergic to GREEN TEA (which I was drinking) . I shut that down quick but others lost everything.
I tried to sell Avon once upon a time. I made $192, which is nice, but the amount of time and work that I had to put in to get that much was irritating. Also, when I found out that Avon had set up a website where clients could order directly from them and have everything shipped to their door in a few days....I knew somebody was lying bc why would a "direct marketing company" compete with their own distributors like that ? So closed my representative account and ordered some stuff for myself from the main website. Not gonna lie, the shopping experience on the main site was much easier Athe ND shipping was faster and cheaper than anything that I could have offered folks. I had to admit to myself that I had been had, and chalked it up to a lesson learned.
As soon as I see the influencer using those little palettes full of different pans, I leave pretty quickly. I already spend WAY too much on skincare and makeup for an old lady, I don’t need to go down that road!!
The fact that they think the products and the techniques are revolutionary will always sent me… Like girl, you are color correcting with a palette with products worth 3-digits ??! The Kryolan color corrector/concealer little towers will cost way less than that and it’s an actual professional brand that exists for ages too. P.s Imagine, I’d recommend and prefer to put Kryolan on my face and manipulate it however I want and not go broke, than to go through all that, thank you for coming to my TED talk ☠️☠️☠️
It's really good when people outside the anti-mlm channels talk about this! Hopefully less people will fall for this type of scam when it's discussed more widely.
This is the way to use your Influence- to inform and help others. Thanks for this, Robert. I know from experience how insidious and dangerous cult mentality is having been raised in a cult religion. It literally tears the identity down and manipulates a person at every level. I admire your attention to the MLM tactics and for tying it straight into cult dynamics. Kudos to you!
I used to follow a TH-camr for YEARS and loved her and her channel, about 8 months ago she joined Seint and started pushing her link in all of her videos. I immediately unsubscribed after she was telling her audience “if I can sell makeup, anyone can” mind you she has over 300K subscribers so she of course is making money off of her subscribers. Thank you for posting this video.
@@annakout personally if she’s using her 300k followers to get ahead.. she knows what she is doing she may be a victim but a victim can still be an abuser as well.
I was part of this company when it was called Maskcara Beauty. I never felt like I belonged, was always judged for being "the future rags to riches starlet". As if that's a compliment and morale booster. It is very much cult mentality. Thank you for making this video Robert. I love you and you brother James' channels. You inspire me as a growing beauty professional myself. You both keep it real and I really appreciate that so much.
I’m so shocked it’s just Maskcara - I had no idea, and I very much remember how predatory they were. We were constantly banning their huns from a NAIL POLISH group I was in, they were so persistent and aggressive.
Yes!! I used to follow Cara’s blog back in the 2010s and remember when she came out with her first contouring kit and liquid blush. The fact that it’s evolved into an MLM is so bizarre to me…what is it with Utah Mormon moms and MLMs??? (Don’t come for me, it’s totally a thing)
I have a friend who bought some stuff from this brand. The products are fine, nothing to hype over though. My friend is now convinced that it’s the only brand she can use and is considering starting her own “team” and asked me to join. My friend is not from a high socioeconomic background and struggles financially. I have sent her this video, as well as several other pieces of information advising her to not join. I won’t judge her for using the products, but I cannot let her get herself into an MLM, particularly when her financial situation is already very complicated. Thank you for posting this Robert ❤
That one woman that talked about the "friends" she made, doesn't understand that as soon as she stops selling that makeup those "friends" are going to drop her and act like she's a traitor or no good.
It’s especially sad hearing about people who got sucked in after getting out of abusive situations. They take advantage of vulnerable, lonely people who want any sense of community.
Im disabled from (mainly) Endometriosis & Cyclic vomiting syndrome (theyre the only conditions i really ever talk about) and i cannot even count how many DM requests ive got on IG telling me they can cure my conditions(which have no cure. CVS isnt even known about, especially in adults. We usually grow out of it) if i just buy their essential oil or gummies 😂 it honestly really pissed me off when it all started, but now i just delete the request and move on
@@RobertWelsh yeah that's when it got really bad, I'd get multiple DMs a day, and most of the time they'd claim to be "a medical professional" (they never said dr, but always implied it) and say they were an Endo/CVS "specialist" and claim to have an easy cure. I've lost 6 organs to Endometriosis, so im ngl when I started getting the DMs I would reply and tell them how horrible I thought it was to take advantage of sick people.
@@angyeliz yeah when it started I'd reply and tell them how horrible it is to do what they did, but now I don't waste my time cuz they never actually cared about helping someone.
Ohhhh my gosh I get the same about my fibromyalgia and arthritis... If some drink or sticker could cure me I'm sure my medical team would have heard about it and we'd all be cured!!!
They seem to prey a lot on nurses for some reason. Both my cousin and older sister have been victims of MLMs, and they're both nurses. I remember my cousin on Instagram jumping from Monet to Herbalife to Beachbody, etc. She closed all her social media accounts, so I have no idea if she's still selling those things. My sister has also jumped from venture to venture. She modeled gym clothes to sell them (which I later learned was Zyia, a well-known MLM), she sold Scentsy, Do' Terra, etc. She mostly falls for things like motivational speakers and "self-help" books. Edited to add to what Chelsea mentioned about suddenly having previous school bullies hitting you up in your DMs. It was never previous bullies in my case, but it was definitely people I never spoke to WHILE at school. Jokes on them, though. I'm a bit neurospicy, and I'm terrible recognizing people, so they were still ignored even when I didn't know they were selling MLMs 😂 It was always this nail polish thing they were selling, don't remember the name right now.
I am one of the people who was ruined by an MLM. I was trying my hardest to promote, sell and recruit and unfortunately when I left I was so far in debt with purchasing my own products to sell. This was before you could but straight through a website. I never invest in MLMs anymore because it’s really just a big company that doesn’t care about their people…
@libbyehr @baileydubs God that’s so awful, I’m so sorry to hear you went through that. One of the things I hate about mlm’s the most is that if it doesn’t work out for you, they always try and spin it like it was your fault, and you didn’t do x, y, and z, or didn’t try hard enough, and not that it’s actually a rigged system from the beginning that sets up people to fail. I hope you’re both doing better now ❤
24:03 LMFAO yes bc doing ALL those steps is so much easier & faster then buffing on some foundation, adding a dot or two of concealer under the eye, adding cream contour or bronzer & maybe a dot or two of liquid blush. These people are making something so simple into some crazy time consuming steps. They’re acting like doing basic makeup steps is some sort of scientific method, making it so much harder then it needs to be.
Honestly to me, it feels like they're doing that to use as much product as possible to try to get those who buy their products to do the same, thus needing to buy more frequently, as well as insisting how every single product helps, the amount of cosmetics she uses is so much more than just the few products you'd realistically "need", everything about MLMs is about making money, so I just can't see it any differently
Legit it takes me like 3 minutes to just apply pink on my undereye area, then concealer on the areas I have issues with, blend it in, put on some powder, put on some blush and do a neutral eye makeup and toss some idk gloss or something for good measure. It isn't professional or ideal but it works for me when I am in a hurry and I bet if I did all that colour nonsense it would stay on exactly as much with oodles more effort.
I was struggling after leaving a DV situation and got sucked into Ann Summers. I will die on the hill that it is an MLM. I had an area manager who kept pushing me to recruit, had to constantly keep up my kit, pay money to attend launch parties. My argument for not recruiting was “well if I saturate my area with reps I’ll lose opportunities”, after that my manager stopped throwing client party opportunities my way. I ended up in over £1000 worth of debt. On top of the debt my abüsive ex had left me in. I refuse to spend money with any MLM now. Happy to see you calling these things out 👏🏻
I love Dr. Steven Hassan! He mentions that it can be super scary to leave because all of your “friends” are your “friends” because of the mlm and if you leave to go to the big, bad outside world, you leave all your “friends” (which proves they never were your friends) and go into the big, bad world all alone.
Thank you for this! MLMs can be absolutely life ruining. They are predatory in nature and prey on marginalized and/undereducated individuals. It’s honestly disgusting and I’m so glad you are shining a light on how horrible it all is
I started learning about MLMs when a woman and her husband were trying to give me Doterra oils to help my extreme morning sickness while pregnant. They kept coming into my work to push it and kept saying it would be a better opportunity for me and my baby since I can stay home all day. So glad I left that place and they haven’t bothered me since.
Yikes!!! Some of the essential oil pushers tell people to ingest them which can be really dangerous if you’re pregnant, taking certain meds, and having chronic health conditions. I told one of them I’ll talk to my doctor instead of taking their snake oils.
We could write a lot about Seint. I followed Kara Brooke’s way back when she just blogged and learned basic contours from her. I bought her first makeup line directly, she didn’t like it and took it back then came up with the makeup pallets. Apparently, when launched she said she couldn’t get it I to retail stores so she did direct sales. At the time I didn’t know it was an MLM and bought a pallet. The brushes we good, the pallet foundation was a trick but I could do my makeup in 10 minutes at a time when I had little kids and it was a saver. I liked the product at that time in my life as an all in one quick look. However, more and more with time I realized it was an MLM and it began to be more cult like with recruiting and you had to order through a makeup artist and have like a log in. I don’t like MLMs and pyramid schemes for obvious reasons. But here’s another deal that wasn’t by Robert but mentioned that I will. This particular brand appeals to Latter Day Saint women (Mormon). For reference I am a member who left the LDS church. This makeup brand is based out of Utah. Utah is notorious for MLMs (Lulurose) The founder is LDS, the siblings involved are, and many many last I knew were of the LDS faith. IMO the brand social tactics have capitalized on that particular genre of women and culture who are naive, LDS, need money, community and or a career. For reference, look at the name Seint and how it’s so close to Latter Day Saint. I stopped buying it in 2020 because it was clear they were sticking with the mlm and not taking it into stores.
This is all making sense! I used to like her videos a looooong time ago…she had some good tutorials with normal drugstore brands (I know I bought a red Revlon lip butter she used in a look). But then it seemed like she leaned more and more into her Maskara line and I stopped watching her. (I’m not into much face makeup, and I really don’t like to watch glorified ads.) Thanks for the additional info.
My first question was “I wonder if this is another LDS/Mormon MLM” especially after I saw the language used in the reason for their name change (what a Saint is, and the emphasis on beauty matters) and I’m so glad you mentioned it. The MLM line runs STRONG in Mormonism, Evangelical Fundamentalism and Conservative Christendom in general and I think it’s because women in these communities are often stay at home moms, isolated from people outside the faith, and have a desire for independence and individual identity in an “acceptable” way. MLMs promise them community and extra cash and often use language that appeals specifically to that demographic. And when people from the “outside” criticize their participation, it mirrors the “you will be prosecuted for your beliefs and that’s a good thing” messaging from their religious leaders they are already conditioned to ignore. As an outside observer, I find the similarities in language and socialization between MLMs and those religious communities fascinating and the connections should definitely be highlighted more!
I just finished a book by Steven Hassan called The Cult of Trump and he’s amazing at teaching the mind of cult leadership and membership. Very educational! ❤
It's scary that so many people eat this ish up! Whether it's MLMs or people, seems loads of folks are just looking to be indoctrinated. I did Rodan & Fields for a hot minute and it felt so icky even though the products are straight-up amazing.
My ex was involved in Amway, and he got me to sign too. I've felt this icky vibe from the start, but because I was 19 (he was 25, and yes, I know now, so don't get me started on the toxicity of the relationship) I went with it. After a couple of months of going to these seminars and trying their products I realised how predatory and brainwashing these people are, so I stopped going and (after a few fights) broke up with the guy too 😅
My brother was once big into Amway. I didn't understand much about it at the time, because there's a big age difference between us and I was so young, but WOW... looking back on it now, it was WILD. The older couple who had an Amway store in their house, their adult son who recruited by brother at age 22-ish, the cult-like behavior + a strong faith/church connection... did you know that Amway once had a band making songs about the company? I had a cassette of their single "Go Diamond", which contained the lyrics: "Quit clownin' around and go Diamond, oh, oh, go Diamond" Diamond was their top sales tier... 🤣
@kibblegingercat it's not normal because of the emotional maturity. The age difference amount is okay on paper. But try to remember how confident, emotionally secure, and able you were at that age. Some 19 yr Olds have very little real life experience as they have worked maybe 1 job or only gone to college. The more you know 🎉
In 1999 I'd just moved cross-country and was looking for jobs anywhere I could find. I answered an ad in the paper, took a bus out to an address I ASSUMED was an office, but instead found myself in a suburban neighborhood. Turns out the "retail" job was a meeting of a bunch of ladies in some woman's garage. As soon as we were able, another woman and I got out of there as quickly as we could. At the time, I was flabbergasted that the host expected me, a person new to the area with no money, to be able to buy boxes and boxes of stuff to sell! It was only a few years ago, hearing about MLMs, that I realized what that "job" was really all about.
Literally lost of my best staff supervisors to Monat, I’ve never seen someone so brainwashed by shampoo thinking she was going to win these luxurious trips to Paris, cars you name it they promised it to her. She spent so much time during her shifts posting these products she had never even touched in person that she gradually neglected her work more and more until ultimately it had to end. She flushed years of a career down the drain for shampoo.
I got sucked into a well known MLM years ago before I understood what they were. The hook was my love of make up and a long held dream of becoming a make up artist. What I loved was teaching people some techniques that I had learned myself and therefore I was not a very successful salesperson. But I would get extremely stressed because they were trying to get me to be somebody that I wasn’t. If you didn’t hit the mark after a while you wouldn’t be quite as included as you were before (though not necessarily shunned). The wake up call came when I had sold Christmas baskets - I had ordered so many products to make up these baskets and ended up losing money when a few of the sales I had made cancelled. It caused arguments at home for me as well. I’m so grateful that I got out but it took me a while to see what had happened, and what they were.
I have a few friends who sell Seint and you’re not wrong about the cult nature - super religious girls I know as well 🤔 Honestly the foundation HAC creams aren’t terrible products and my makeup always looks good when I wear it. But would never join or repurchase. Plus it’s all OVER PRICED $12 for a single pan eyeshadow that’s not very good quality and cost more than Pat McGrath per gram?!
Omg the eye shadow is so bad I know a girl who sells it. She posted a video of her putting it on and it looked like nothing at the end. The eyeshadow left the room vanished into the ether
I know you probably want to help your friends by buying the products (or maybe you just like the products) but by buying them you’re lining the pockets of the predators who run MLMs and take advantage of people like your friends. You vote with your coin so if you can buy elsewhere, (and if other people do too), these MLMs will have to stop.
Yep, what @lilcharbo said - if you support the MLM financially, it will continue to thrive and take advantage of people. For the price they’re demanding, buy yourself a nice Pat McGrath palette, or get some singles from Clionadh. ❤
I wish I could like this video more than once!! When I was a teen, a friend recruited me to join her juice plus team (is that brand still around?). I revoked the contract after a week, and luckily got my money back, after going to an event and seeing and feeling the cult-like mentality firsthand. It was scary… And ever since I’m trying my hardest to tell and warn people about MLMs!
Dude juice plus was one I almost got roped into!!! I figured out it was juice plus after doing investigation, she never told me it was juice plus 😂 thank God I was too broke to join at the time haha
Now someone needs to talk about all the mlm's and "cults" in the hairsrstylist industry. Whew, it's crazy. Bunch of stylists getting a little famous and then feasting on new hairstylists money by scamming them with private tutor sessions or classes that end up not teaching them anything but costing them everything
My mom almost signed me up for this... She saw this post by a woman on Facebook saying she was looking for "young girls for a marketing job" and my mom reached out to her in my regard (without asking me first, mind you 😂) because she thought it would have been a good idea; the moment she told me about it, I asked her what the "marketing job" entailed ("messaging people you know and selling products at a local scale") but I immediately realized it was a piramid scheme and got FURIOUS! From the "young girls" search to the vague description with circumnavigated language, super predatory. She was looking for young women to scam out of their money by forcing them to buy a load of products from her, and my mom was readily signing me up. I know my mom had good intentions, but she is SO misguided for stuff like this - and she didn't even sign herself, she was signing ME up! Even at the cost of coming across as super rude and sort of aggressive to strangers or my own mother, I'm not falling for any of this. (Sorry for grammar mistakes and whatnot, I'm from Italy)
My mom got roped into doing Mary Kay and a jewelry MLM and i saw how horrible it was for her. So ive always been aware of how bad MLMs are, so Chelsea and Isabellas(along with other anti MLM influencers! I just dont follow anyone else) content was an easy yes for me. Plus they're both entertaining, i love Chelseas spicy side😂🫶
I fell for this back in 2018 and ended up spending 300 dollars to have the worst breakout of my life and look so greasy and orange it was a wonder of science 😂 I’m so happy you’re talking about this scam and that my two faves are in one video 💜💜💜
Comment5: NEVER have I heard of an honest person having their life ruined by pyramid schemes. Never. It's always the scammers that scam each other. Much like Robert and what's her name are doing with this very fvking detailed video which might give some people hope in these desperate times. Yes, these are desperate times. It's obvious just by seing how desperate these 2 are.
😂😂😂 GUYS EXAMPLE EXAMPLE!!!!!
Also … you know you can leave one long comment right???
You’re pathetic 😂
Nah your joking right no way you Literally proved the cult mentality
Ok grandma lets get you back in the nursing home
THE HUSTLE BABE GIRL BOSSES ARE GOING TO BE VERY UPSET WOBERT🎉😂
IM READY!!!! thank you for doing this with me Chelsea!! 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤
And we will be here to clap back if need be 😂😂
😂 hey hun!🫶💜
But the mediocre people with working hours and benefits are quite pleased, so at least you've got that going for you 😜
Queen 🌶️🌶️🌶️
"I make six figures!"
The six figures: $3.00011
Six significant figures lol
nah this is too funny 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂
💀
If Robert calls me out on this I’ll scream…
But did anyone else love looking through their grandma’s Avon book as a kid? Never realized it was an MLM but is a core memory as a child😂
Same! 😂 Avon and Mary Kay. And my grandma would always let me pick things, which I of course loved doing! And I remember the lady coming in the pink convertible and being like…I WANT ONE!! Ahh, to be a completely innocent kid again who knows nothing of the big bad world 😅
I used to go thru my gma's avon book all the time lmaooo, it was just fun, hahaha
I was obsessed with those tiny adorable lipstick samples!! My mom's Avon lady was an older widowed woman who always came to the door in lovely dresses and beautiful makeup and hair. She was very pretty and sweet and her name was Eileen. Loved the book, too!
@@mouse2390there was an Avon girl in my office. I asked her to buy me sample kits so I could use them for stage makeup 😂
Avon is a fond childhood memory for me too. My grandmother had tons of Avon makeup.
As an outsider, Avon has always seemed to be the least MLM type of company to me.
I have never seen a social media post about Avon recruiting, but that is just me. One thing that Avon does that drives me crazy, is they discontinue tried and true products that I loved. They used to have a Magix primer. It was like $10 for a 6oz tube. It was blurring and covered pores, giving you a soft, powder like finish. I would often wear it with just a little mascara and lipstick as a busy mom of 3 small kids. They discontinued it many years ago. I recently looked through an Avon catalog, and it is almost unrecognizable as the same company we grew up with. They have so many sub brands and now sell cleaning products, which kind of puts them in the Melaluca /Amway lane.😢
Ex Mary Kay mlmer here, they tried to sell us a class with their head make up artist and say we would be certified make up artists......for $300. I questioned how we would become licensed with the state if we did it. Oh boy was I shunned, the main director even called me and chastised me. When I told her I know our state law and we have to follow specific regulations and pass certain criteria if we are applying product to people's faces, my independent beauty consultant contract got canceled withing 24 hours and was told everyone in my unit got a email saying they couldnt have contact with me, my director got my team and commissions for that month. Girl bye, I dont want to lie and not be in compliance with the law.
Shunning? Wow, I've seen some cult survivor content (Cults to Consciousness) That's exactly what the Old Order Amish, or FLDS do. Well done on making your escape!
Whewwww, a blessing for you tbh.
That is terrible that they treated you that way. I heard a story on an anti-MLM channel recently about a lady who had sold Mary Kay for 40 years. Apparently, Mary Kay has some kind of retirement program, but ONLY if you meet certain sales criteria. This woman, who gave 40 years of her life to Mary Kay, was just slightly below the retirement program criteria, and she was given nothing! So sad. These companies claim to empower women, but they do not care about their consultants.
🚩🚩🚩🚩Cult tactic alert!!!!! That is textbook information control and social control. So glad you got out
Yeah I did a 600 hour clock hour program and got my makeup artist certification. I’m not sure how many hours are necessary to be a certified makeup artist but I’m sure it’s more than a few hours lol
I love it when big influencers come out against MLMs. They are so predatory.
They are!! 🖤
They really are!! I used to buy mlm products to "support" my friends, even though I knew the business practice was bad I still wanted to "help" them. But those days are gone. I do them a greater service by not buying their products and thereby hoping that they get out of them sooner because they can't find success.
Me, too! I think it’s so important to educate people about MLMs. I’ve had so many friends and family get involved with various MLMs over the years and seen how destructive they are. Once I knew more about the practices, I stopped supporting them in any way, which was sadly detrimental to a few relationships.
I highly recommend season 1 of The Dream podcast as a follow up for info about why MLMers insist they aren’t pyramid schemes (spoiler alert-the technicality is paper thin) and the history of abusive and shady tactics employed to get people into what are essentially cults. Scary stuff. Props to Robert & CC for using their platforms to talk about this!
Ok, now off I go to finish watching this video-I got so excited to had to comment right away lol
@@SB-oh7hw I used to too. I went to a colleagues Bodyshop at Home ‘launch party’, and it was eyeopening and not in a good way!
@@lavieenlavande ooh, thank you for that rec, I'll look it up!!
One thing I've learned in my 60 years: if you're ever invited to a product 'party' at anyone's house..... RUN in the opposite direction.
At 48, I am backing this comment 1000%!😂
All those Pampered Chef and Tupperware parties my mom dragged me to as a kid... I didn't find out they were MLMs until like 4 years ago!!
I love going to them because I'm completely numb to high pressure sales situations and ask really piercing questions that throw them off
They’re now doing online parties. I’ve been invited to several facebook MLM parties in the last few years. That’s not even a real party! If you’re going to pressure me to buy an overpriced mop or a makeup product that gives me a rash, at the very least, you should give me a cupcake or some chips.
Everyone needs good Tupperware though
My Mom fell victim to an essential oil MLM. Those people had her convinced she was some kind of shaman medicine woman or something. One day I heard her yelling out in pain, and when I ran into her room she was crying out “I’m in so much pain idk what to do, it’s not working, it ain’t doing nothing.” She was rolling an oil roller over her leg. Instead of taking her medications that kept her from having chronic leg cramps and other types of severe chronic pain, she was convinced her medication was “toxic” and that the essential oils would better manage her pain.
These people prey on people like my Mom, desperate to make money, desperate to take control over things like chronic pain. They sell them a LIE. People like my Mom suffer monetarily at best, and at worst physically and medically when they are manipulated into thinking “holistic” methods can save them and make them rich.
Did she get out? Is your mother okay?
Ugh I’ve spent thousands of dollars I definitely do not have over the years on so much snake oil to try to help my chronic pain from autoimmune disease. Reiki, chiropractors, acupuncture (this helped with one provider and bruised me/did nothing with another), more lotions and potions than you can imagine. I also started believing some whacky shit like if I healed my inner child enough my diseases would go away and I would feel better. It’s so hard to be in a desperate, vulnerable position, so I very much feel for your mom. I hope she’s doing ok
I hope you're mum is okay now.
I abhor the essential oil MLMs . They are dodgy at best at incredibly dangerous at the worst.
A lot advocate for taking essential oils orally instead of seeking professional medical advice or you know, creating healthier life habits.
A lot of these essential oils are NOT safe to ingest and many also require a carrier oil if applied. It is absolutely disgusting to see this peddled towards vulnerable people.
Luaroe 😂😂😂😂
Essential oils work but not like that. That’s so sad I hope she’s okay. Give her tart cherry juice not from concentrate at night every night organic as well. I have chronic back pain due to my spinal arthritis. That juice is amazing! Find some at any grocery store
"when you look at someone with rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like... flags." one of my favorite quotes from Bojack Horseman. that's too much, man.
Yes, love this quote (and show) so much.
I’m always obsessed with the colored liners added to Robert’s scar
Thank you! 🖤
I was coming here to see if anyone else had said this! I love it ❤
Especially this look!❤❤❤❤❤
Yes me too!! It’s almost like a jewelry accessory I love it. And the gold with the brown smokey eye is giving ❤
I love it sm, so unique
Who was this close 👌 to buying SEINT products because she didn’t know they were an MLM? Me. Who got saved because of this video? Also me 😂
Omg amazing!! 😂😂😂🖤🖤🖤
Thank God!!! Good on you for being open to new information 😂
go watch isabella lanter’s video on seint makeup, as well. she does a great job at deep dives
It wasn't this exact video, but I'm greatful I watched one of Robert's videos where he mentioned sent a couple weeks ago. I was about to reach out to be color matched.
Same!! 😂
Not gonna lie, as a woman over 30 (who is professionally trained by the way back in '06 in beauty and special effects makeup) I am a tad offended by the woman who said this video is for women over 30 who don't know how to do their makeup and maybe shop at Walgreens or drug stores. First of all most of the "over 30s" grew up as this industry started to blow up on TH-cam and as makeup became a pretty big thing. Also there is NOTHING wrong with shopping at Walgreens and other drugs stores for your makeup. There are some stellar drug store brands out there. I know she is trying to sell her products but this part of whats wrong with these MLMs, especially in the beauty industry 🙄 Putting women down to make a sale. Either by their age or budget or where they shop or skill level. SHAME ON THEM!
Right?! Some of my favorite daily use, will always own kinda products are drug store and they're telling grown adult people "don't use that stuff! Come instead to this brand that NO ONE has EVER heard of." Lol it's very silly.
Yes and there are so many drugstore products that are higher quality than Seint!
@@cat_ladyyyI doubt that Seint has many product that surpass any drugstore product!
Exactly
Excuse me, but can we all take a moment to admire Robert's immaculate makeup and the smokey eyes in particular. Enhancing the brow scar with a golden hue is pure genius. You look smashing darling
Obsessed with the gold scar, definitely stealing that idea 🔥
It’s a scar? I’m going to try stealing that for my own eye, although my own scar is more along the eye socket where the eyebrow ends so maybe it will look weirder on me 🤔
I literally started this video and said “damn he looks goooood 👀 I wanna go do my makeup now” meanwhile I have nowhere to go today 🤣
@@EmmaSpAce111 do iiiiiiit 👏👏👏
I sold Avon off the back of my motorcycle as a teen. Couldn’t afford to fill the car with gas but I always had makeup at the ready! Even then I knew I was selling it just to break even on my beauty habit.
Even if it wasn't stated specifically in this video, I am here to emphasize a point that is what I think being made. They target the most vulnerable groups of people. Women, stay at home mom's, people of lower income economic status, people who (as Robert said) been victimized of these patterns in their past, and so many other minority groups. Don't. Let. Them. Win. ❤
So true. MLM’s were really having a moment during the height of the pandemic. Why? Because people were broke and desperate. Any business model that takes advantage of broke and desperate people is not a business I want to have any part of.
Immigrants are also a big one! As well as people with mental illness. I know a few people who have been victims of these schemes more than once, especially those with multiple vulnerabilities.
I actually ended up at a lunch with a guy trying to rope me and a friend in. Dude straight up drew a pyramid when explaining how everything worked, like the situation wasn’t dodgy enough. I ended up cussing him out at a later date when he tried to hassle again.
@@esotericoctopus 🙌🙌🙌
Kangen water got my bro in law, he was only 18 when he joined. 4yrs later he’s still in it 😔
My mum got into an MLM when she was terminally ill with cancer. She wanted to make some extra money to supplement her sick pension. She didn’t make any money obviously. She died in 2006, and the thought of how they took advantage of her still makes my blood boil.
It's so sad why some brands go the MLM route when they could just sell legitimately without whoring their sellers out.
I know! 😩
Like Tyra Banks 🙄
I feel this way about Colorstreet. Strips of cool nail designs and colors that you don't need any special equipment for that just comes off with acetone??? They would have made a KILLING during the panny-d. Why are they an MLM???
@@felinemoonchildthey are?????
@@something6510 yes they are, but there are non MLM versions of the same concept
Why are they so obsessed with it being for 30/40 year old skin?! Like we can’t wear regular makeup?! I actually feel insulted by their focus on it even working for my ancient skin 🤣
Same! I wear so many other brands that aren’t scams that look amazing on my 44 year old skin. It’s a turn off when brands push that “great for mature skin” crap. I have skin, and it’s not mature. It’s just skin.
I know!!! I’ve seen people in their 40s woth better skin than people in their 20s!
In my 50s my skin is better than it was in my 20s
Thats my issue. I am almost 40 and I want a full face not short cuts
@@RobertWelsh As a fellow makeup artist, this, especially as an Aussie MUA, one thousand times this. Tanning or just living life, especially in Australia, and not wearing sunscreen is how I've seen 27 year olds with skin so much harder to work with than people who are 67 who have protected their skin from literal radiation exposure.
I will never forget in the Luluroe documentary one of the women who left that MLM crying as they put a for sale sign in her yard because she could not longer afford to stay there with her children. She just kept saying to herself what will happen now. It was heartbreaking because no one should lose their home but especially not because of ugly leggings.
I remember that!!! The founders are the biggest a-holes going! The guy (I forget his name) made a video basically blaming the consultants if they have low or no sales, saying " you're stale and your customers are stale"
And don't get me started on the Tijuana Skinnies!
Lularoe is the worst. Any company that requires you to buy every month is evil
I read an article about them and the big problem with them over some other MLMs is the amount of inventory you had to purchase to sell. If you wanted to get out, the company was supposed to buy it back but then either wouldn't or only wanted to pay pennies on the dollar (I don't remember which) so people got stuck spending tons of money on stock they couldn't sell. On top of that, they were so popular at one point that the market got oversaturated so they just ran out of customers along with product quality going downhill.
It annoys me that whereas pyramid schemes are illegal in the UK, our government don't see MLMs as the same thing in a different guise. We need to make MLMs illegal... 💔
Farmasi are coming to the UK next year and I’m already seeing people have their Facebook pages taken over by it, acting like it’s their own company that they’re starting up. It’s really worrying to see. Farmasi is just as bad as the rest but if you google them the first page is full of paid (allegedly) articles in their favour. It’s pretty scary.
i think it’s most countries that are like this, unfortunately.
Same in the US and I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I mean UK is often contradictory when it comes to laws, sadly.
Just to add. When MLM people quote ' we arent a pyramid scheme because we sell a product!'
That is NOT a defining difference. There are many pyramid schemes that have been shut down and sued eventhough they sell a product.
What IS a defining aspect is making the majority of your income, from recruitment and not product sales.
Remember that. Its the RECRUITMENT, that makes it a pyramid scheme. Not whether they do or do not have a product
Nothing to do with the content but I just wanted to say I LOVE how you started incorporating your eyebrow scar, a "physical flaw" into your beauty makeup. It makes me think of the Japanese pottery that fills cracks with gold. It's just a small detail that can be inspiring to many ❤😊
Thank you! 🖤🖤🖤
I adore the idea of this being an expression of human kintsugi
I agree with you 100%. I don't try to cover up the scar on my nose because it was due to me having basal cell carcinoma that has started to spread so much I was in danger of losing my eyesight. I embrace my scars! I earned them!
Kintsugi!
@@hellzkittehn5699A scar from a fight for your sight! Respect, I bet it looks cool, too.
Former Seint “artist” here. When the company first came out with the Demi line we had to spend hundreds of dollars to get the product, then submit videos in order to be “demi certified. I personally never tried to “certify” as MANY women submitted and failed multiple times. Also, if you weren’t Demi certified, you could sell the product, but you could not make any commission on it. That ended up being one of the MANY reasons I walked away from this company.
Good for you for getting it, instead of doubling down!
That is INSANE!!!
My old boss said to me, if it was that easy to make money, wouldn't everyone be doing it? That has stuck with me. This sounds fantastic, especially to someone young, naive and impressionable. I hate how MLM's prey on people. They're like a cult. Thank you for raising awareness. ❤
I was the same, an older couple were trying to suck me and my now ex husband into an MLM company, I was only around 19 or 20 and knew nothing about these. I spoke about it at my day job and the boss and engineers I was working with explained to me what a pyramid scheme was, and how they get round it as MLMs and that only a handful of people get rich off of everybody else's hard work. Thanks to them I stepped right away from that.
My teacher once told us that fast money and fast success usually mean you are doing something illegal to attain the fast money. Most people take years to be successful because they work hard to achieve there goals. While scam artists just get paid to cut to the top and are the first to fall back down .
My dad told me this when I was young and it's probably the best tool I've ever been given. If something is easy to do and will make you a fortune, everyone would do it. This is especially important advice to remember when people try to recruit you for work-from-home jobs that promise only an hour or two a day of work, but say you'll earn a month's salary every week. No, you won't.
Military spouse here, I can’t tell you how many times I was approached to attend an MLM party in 27 years. I hate how they prey on everyone.
Former military spouse... exact same experience. I got roped into one party before I knew what Scentsy was. I thought we were gonna do a cute wine and learn how to make oil diffusers night (like a paint and wine party), nope it was an extended sales pitch and one of the most uncomfortable 2 hours of my life.
@@magskl672Scentsy was MLM?? Dang, I never knew that!
SAME. I was told it was a girls night and it was a pure romance party. It was the most uncomfortable night and I only tagged along with a friend I had just met. So I sat there being encouraged to look through catalogs of sex toys in front of 15 women I did not know.
An obvious market-ladies who are in a strange place and the husband is often gone-they are preying on loneliness.😡🗑️
Army brat here.. I think the only mlm party my birth giver would attend that seemed interesting was one selling candles 😂😂 but those women were... 😅😅 scary amd definitely would've been called Karen's if that was a term when I was a kid
Keep in mind most of the time the “sales requirement” to stay active does not mean actually selling to people it just means the Huns have to buy enough product from the company. No actual job would make you buy product from them
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Exactly that!
Completely agree! I know some companies require $100 a month in personal inventory! 🙄
However, I am a former Seint artist and I never had to spend any of my own money every month to “stay active.” I spent $400 (NOT required, but I wanted it all lol) on an artist kit and made my investment back plus profit in 2 months. I did not have to purchase anything beyond that initial investment whatsoever. I also signed up during the pandemic with a ton of success. I no longer have the time which is why I say… former. 😊
I made 20% off of every sale no matter what. I did not have any sales requirements to get paid. If you hit goal you can earn up to 40% which I did many months. You do have to hit $240 monthly in order to make any commission off of your team though. So if I didn’t reach that, I made ZERO dollars off of my team’s work and effort.
Just a little back office information because as much as MLM’s suck, Seint wasn’t bad in terms of “financial ruin” by any means. I don’t agree with some of the marketing, I didn’t like all of the products, and I’m not a “girl boss.” I just like the makeup honestly. 🤷🏼♀️ The “hun” mentality is gross to me. Not all makeup works for everyone and not a lot of artists are honest about that which makes my eye twitch.
Ding ding ding “you can buy just a lipstick for yourself. You’d do that anyway” not when I don’t make money Barbra 🤣🤣🤣
I worked at the corporate level for an MLM in the 90s. The owner once told me, straight up, “we’re not selling products, we’re selling the desire of money”. The product doesn’t matter, skin care or a widget, it’s not about that. It’s about building your network (pyramid).
SEINT was the driving force behind the end of a 25 year friendship. Once someone who I called my sister...this person completely morphed into a disillusioned "girlboss" and began aligning herself with alt-right "Christian" values that completely drove a wrench between us. She stopped showing her individuality and began looking, speaking, and acting like a complete stranger. Nobody talks about the SEINT/MLM to alt-right pipeline. but I know this has happened to others. It broke my heart and I think about it to this day even though the friendship ended 3 years ago.
I am so so so sorry 💔 I grew up in evangelical christianity and a lot of the american women who came on mission trips or as staff were part of mlms. (Typically only short term, they married young and if you’re basically a trad wife you only travel if your husband wants to). It was jarring to have the person that was meant to mentor us peer pressure us into buying nail products. Thank god mlms aren’t as big in my country because the overlap in mentality and social circles with cults is scary af
I really hope your friend gets out. I used to go to church even after it gave me ptsd and I had anxiety attacks when I went. I only got out when I became so chronically ill I couldn’t figure out how to force myself to go anymore, in between sermon recordings I had room to think for the first time!! Still not sure how to distance myself when almost everyone I know is part of it. My husband didn’t grow up in it but he’s still stuck sadly… I’m trying to get well enough to be independent and divorce him because the way it’s affecting our relationship is unbearable
Yes! I don’t know who did a deep dive on this, but there is a link between MLM’s and christo-fascist organisations and or cults in general. It’s the group think mentality and the suspension of disbelief in the extraordinary talents or origin story if “the leader” or founder that can reach almost mythical proportions. It’s the wilful overriding of your innate critical thinking skills software.
Not the Good Girl and Savannah Marie have covered it.
Same. My dad went MLM-Q Anon- Alt-Right
@@maryeckel9682 thank you!
One of the important things to remember about MLMs is that the people buying the product aren’t the real customers. They are NOT where the vast majority of profit comes from. It comes from people who sign up to be salespeople. They force you to buy “starter kits” / subscriptions / overstock because it’s THE SELLER’S money they want. They don’t care what happens to the product once the seller gets it. The company already has your money!! The vast majority of people end up in debt with product they can’t get rid of because they already ran everyone in their life off by. You know. Trying to rope them in.
Yep. I remember seeing a meme or something once that said, "If you are paying to work for a company, you are not an employee. You're a customer."
My friend got sucked into Tupperware in late 2021. Spent a couple grand just for the discounts. Still has most of it completely unused. Tried selling at local flea markets, not much luck. Now Aldi is selling it and my friend is stuck with it, giving it away and trying to clear the debt she's still in.
You are exactly right!
Basically this, my aunt (not biological, just mom's childhood friend) is an AVON saleswoman and she always just gave us AVON products for free as gifts because it didn't matter what happened with the products since she already paid for them.
Side note, seeing Homestuck icons in 2023 gives me so much serotonin. Seriously, happy people are still into this.
Yeah, and to even qualify to retain your status as a consultant in these companies, you are requirec to spend a certain amount of money every month to stay active. Whether you buy for yourself or your "customers" doesn't matter. If you let your account go inactive, you won't collect any money you might have made that month. And nothing carries over, everything starts over from zero in the 1st of every month. Whatever little money you made, is immediately gone due to spending on more products and other fees. And don't forget the IRS- you will owe taxes on every cent you were paid, even after it's all been spent. It doesn't take long to rack up debt once you join an MLM.
Years ago, my Monat starter kit was $800. I never made even half of that investment back....and I'm a hairdresser! Monat makes ALL their money off the "huns" that are buying products, not outsiders.
Exactly!
Monet also destroys hair.
@@grantmegan91monat does not destroy all hair. Some people it doesn’t work for but for some it’s been life changing. No I don’t sell the shampoo! I’ve seen it work wonders for my hair!
The size of the product that you get for how expensive it is is also so disgusting, especially the conditioner because WTF????
@@bluesmiles5 then you’re using way too much! I’m getting ready to get my 3rd bottle in the since last Thanksgiving!
Someone I once worked with was struggling. Single mom, 4 kids, health issues. She bought into lip sense, spending so much money not just on the products, but a big decal for her car. She spent so much time promoting on Facebook, she was neglecting her actual job and eventually lost it. It was such a crappy situation and I felt so bad and frustrated for her. These companies suck.
lost her job over that nasty ol lipsense. I can't believe it.
I saw this happening to my coworker with doTERRA. The place I worked at had cameras everywhere. Our boss had been made aware that she was trying to sell her oils to all the customers (they were parents waiting for kids to get out of class so she had 45 minutes to harass them.) He warned her repeatedly and continued to catch her ON CAMERA!
She was also giving dangerous advice that resulted in two ER visits. Only reason she wasn't fired was she had worked there 9 years and it's a hard job. She claimed she was being targeted unfairly. She constantly tried to rope me in and said she wanted to "bless" me with the opportunity. 🙃
It was hard on her family too, her husband was an employee and her kids were long time students. So embarrassing for them.
@@mst3kanitaat one point you have invested so much already, how can quit and declare all that money to habe been thrown away?! She was not not lying when she connected Satan with MLM, whether he be horned or allegorical.
Sad how they take advantage of mothers instead of helping mother and other women out
Did she make any actual money initially selling the product? I’ve never done MLM so I don’t understand the allure but I’ve always wondered how people get sucked into it. There must be some initial incentive for people to keep going with it. Was it the camaraderie or pressure from her “team”?
"Except for Heaven's Gate... that guy was very transparent" 😅
😂😂 he was on their website saying “is this a cult? YES IT IS”😂
My friend is in an MLM. I told her right away when she asked me to join her group. And I told her because years ago I was unknowingly apart of an MLM. She didn't seem to care and called it by another one of those other names that she CC said. She's dropped so much money and posts and time into the "business." Her first check was at least four months after she started at it was $300. Four months of continuing work and sales and that's all she made. Plus she was number one seller and got an award. A piece of paper, not cash. She's starting to rub out of people to push her stuff on. So she buys a ton from the company and makes "goodies bags" that are $30 but have stuff from the Dollar Tree and the least expensive item on their order form.
For me, it's a no! She's working two regular jobs AND the MLM. And that says a lot.
Plus she pays for the trips to other states to "learn how the business wirks" ect. And of course, she has to advertise it, for free!
Exactly! It really does ruin people
Dude that sucks. A girl from my high school who was popular messaged me on Facebook for a couple of days to 'see how I was' after I started uni. I had just lost my job, it was almost Christmas. She tried her best to get me to join her pyramid scheme. I was confused because she was working at a hotel and posting 24/7 about her business, and said she was making loads. She didn't give me much info about the company, but said it was 200 to join. Luckily, I was literally stone broke... I couldn't afford it. I don't know if she's still in it but it was so sad because all I wanted was a friend, and thought she actually wanted to know how I was going 😂 I have a cousin in arbonne so thankfully I kind of knew what was going on lol.
That’s exactly the same for my mom & it makes me so sad. I don’t know how too get her out because she is so convinced of the products and the company.
So let's say she was working part time those 4 months which is 320 hours. $300 divided by 320 hours is $.93 an hour. My guess is if she figured out her profit and losses, she's in the negative and using her 2 jobs to pay for the MLM.
They never care, they don’t care about how it hurts someone as long as there’s a possibility they could have a down line. I had a woman try to rope me into Monat by telling me how good for me it would be because I’m an “Indian” so I don’t have to pay taxes. They have no shame.
What pisses me most about MLMs is that I went to school for massage therapy, skin care/makeup, and nail care and I am licensed in my state for all of them. Any random person can get involved in these MLMs and give "advice" regarding those areas, and insist their products are "one size fits all". I've had customers asking me for massage treatments with essestial oils, and when I explain that I am not a certified aromatherapist, they get mad and insist that their whomever does it, and they sell that brand (I'm not going to name, but ya know). I am trained in safety and proper technique, they are not. I have taken some courses, and read some things about aromatherapy, but not enough that I actively give advice to their use, as they can be dangerous. That oil company gives zero fucks about safety, and can cause some serious issues. Plus, their ingredients are horrific! Don't even get me started on the "facial" products....
Exactly! They aren’t professionals at anything and they don’t care about people health
I did an internship in massage school with a woman who did all of that essential oil stuff, including things that no educated aromatherapist would do (lots of oils undiluted on the skin). Luckily my mom is a chemist and has taught me some safety around chemical burns and essential oils but yikes!! She charged enough for her massages and she had great massage technique, it kills me she was "supplementing" her income into oblivion by shilling for an MLM
I have had*friends* try to push essential oil and diffusers on me. Then, they have the gall to mad, when I tell them it could be dangerous to my cats. I only use all natural products, why would I want to poison myself and my kitties
If I had a massage therapist tell me that they couldn't use a specific product in my session because they weren't certified, I would be so happy to get that response and probably always go to them because I could feel that much more confident in their integrity and training.
Yess! I’ve seen some people feeding essential oils to their babies. It is horrifying
I think it's funny Raw Beauty Kristi has been talking about doing a HUGE MLM deep dive for YEARS, and she finally did it and its like.... 10min long? Thanks, Robert, for showing us a decent exploration
😂
Yes!!! I was so disappointed with that video. She's going kinda down the crunchy/conspiracy chick lately so have unsubbed.
@@thelovelymisshill yeah, what was with that conspiracy shit?
@@darkydoomwait I'm nosy what conspiracy ??
Edit: I wemt and looked and it was actually 28+ minutes. Idk, doesnt seem so bad.
Can't believe it was so short, I remember her talking about it years ago
The funny thing about the Demi method is because you’re mostly adding color, everyone ends up with a way darker face than their neck, ears, or rest of their skin. 90s and 80s babies will remember the Maybelline Dream Matte Mousse dark orange faces, and honestly it’s giving that.
That Dream Mousse made it all the way into the 2000s too 😂 it was my first foundation in 2010. It gives me flashback, I hate to think how I looked and how NO ONE said anything about it bc we were all walking around with an orange face. Honestly that foundation formula wasn't bad, it was the shades that were bad.
I hate how I looked like the annoying orange but I kinda liked the texture (idk it just hit my neurospice) and it miraculously didn't make me break out 😂
@@tuschi8039neurospice 😂😂 I like that
@@banquo4223 I did not invent the term. Just heard it once and loved it, since it can also apply to not (yet) diagnosed people who most DEFINITELY do show symptoms of neurodivergence 😊
I loved the formula and found the right shade... that being said, I never was one to over apply nor leave it unblended. I did however over bronze my cheekbones and body with the BYS bronzer which was a orange gold 😂
My mom has started buying from seint and I tried to educate her about it being an MLM, but after teaching me about scams my whole life, she has chosen to turn a blind eye to it 🤦🏻♀️
Noooo is she “helping a friend”? Some people feel they have to 😩
@@RobertWelsh she follows a woman on IG who sells it and my mom claims it’s “better than anything she’s tried for her 60 year old skin”
It must be a form of cognitive dissonance for her, hope she gets out soon. That’s awful.
@@RobertWelsh that's the worst! Ive had quite a few friends and family members get sucked into these things (thankfully its been years since that's happened), and I always felt like I should buy something to "support" them 😕
WHAT IS IT ABOUT MOMS maybe it’s just because they feel they know better inherently. My mom, the same thing. In fact, she was personally scammed out of 9 THOUSAND dollars by an MLM company and yet she seems to get her makeup exclusively through other MLM companies. They must be doing some kind of dark magic over there in their MLM cult group calls.
I’m in an anti-MLM group on FB and people have been SO excited for this video to drop! Thanks y’all!
i read this as an u saying u are in one not in an anti-mlm i was confused for a second that's all it was just dumb reading mistake 😭
What's the group called 👀
What’s the group called?
I’m in a few! Not sure the exact name (one is private) but if you search anti-MLM there’s a bunch!
👍
not me trying to find the "Example" comment before watching the whole video only to find the most supportive, logical, and emphatic babes. you have an amazing community here, Robert!! bravooooo.
lol so did i
if he didn't say it there would have been those comments lol, he should have put it at the end of the video
Doing it now ...
She may make six figures, but she didn’t say where the decimal point was in those six figures😂😂😂😂😂
MLM mentality is no joke. I live in India and my mom was targeted by an MLM "boss babe" to be one of their sellers, and when she laughed at their faces and told them to eff off, the response was just vile. I don't even need to read the comments to know these people are predatory and NOT your friend 🙄
Ugh…I heard Herbalife is really, really targeting the supplement market in India. I thought oh great, that’s a horrible US export. Glad your mom told them to take a hike.
When you leave an MLM, oh wow...
"Cult- like" is very appropriate to describe what it's like. Luckily, I was in less than a year. That being said, during that time, when others would leave, how they would be bashed was unreal. Worse than any group of children, ever!
I know I was talked about- I just did not care. To this day, my "upline" person, if she sees me out, turns and goes in another direction. Which is hilarious - as we are both in our late 40s.
Unhinged...
@@raenoway Yeah the Herbalife crap was huge around 2016 here. My mom was approached by the neighbor ladies who worked for Oriflame (I think), and I swear the whole thing was like a scene out of "Rosemary's Baby". They made her buy stuff and try it on herself, but my mom has an off switch just like me and when she has enough, she tells people to stop and go eff themselves if they're being pushy. Those ladies later called my mom to berate her for wasting _their_ time, which was hilarious because they barged in themselves when we first moved in and pushed a bunch of products in our face.
I feel for anyone who is from another country and targeted, or an American and from a seriously low-income situation. We need some kind of lawsuit to set some change in motion
We’ve all fallen for this ❤ I thought I was going to be held captive in a woman’s house when she invited me over for a “makeover party”. She approached me when I worked at Circuit City and made it sound amazing. This was maybe 2004? I showed up to her house and I was held hostage by three women selling Mary Kay. They were so aggressive and bold!! They literally got my checkbook out of my purse for me to purchase a Mary Kay starter kit. I was so scared to say no, I was confused and just so fucking ignorant that I allowed that to happen to me. As soon as the kit came in the mail, I threw it in the garbage and changed my cell phone number. I hope those women are in hell lol
Honestly I can understand why you felt pressured! They have no shame !
MK is the worst for that! Been there got invited to a "facial party" and I was never so glad I left my purse in the damn car in my life! Everyone got a turn to go into a room alone with the MK girl. I assume forced/talked into a purchase. Since they all bought some of that overpriced trash.
YES omg! A similar-ish situation happened to my friend TWICE. She's one of the sweetest people I know. A girl she went to high school with invited her to dinner to "catch up". When she got to the restaurant to meet up, the girl said "come join us upstairs!" and my friend said she thought "oh, she invited other people, no biggie" and walked into a fucking pyramid scheme party. She told me she gave her the stink eye and just left.
The other time was at a someone's apartment, with similar "let's catch up, haven't seen you in a while" bullshit. Luckily she knew what it was when she saw it. Fuck pyramid schemes and them preying on other women. They were sooo prevalent ~2016-2018 on FB, it was wild.
If you have to basically lie and hide what your actual motive is, why wouldn't that scream "hmm, this business model sucks?" Insanity!
Same thing happened to my mom and I!!! I'm 21 now and my mom and I were invited to that makeover party when I was a freshman in high school I think. My mom's friend invited us who was friends with a Mary Kay lady. Didn't really understand what was going on until the ~purchasing products~ portion of the party, and my mom explained to me (in Spanish, so they wouldn't understand) what was going on, and that we would just pay for a few products so we wouldn't be rude and then leave. I guess my mom realized after we were already there. We used up the MK products we bought and never again! I still get occasional birthday texts and letters with free samples from that MK lady but I'm too lazy to change my number so I just block hers😑. Thanks for sharing your story!! I was wondering if anyone here had a run-in with Mary Kay specifically in the past lol.
I went to some kind of “tupperware” (?) party as a kid with my mom where we were fed food. Mom was pretty unimpressed but content to nosh while I played with the cats. Did not realize what it was until later. Also went to a jewelry party because I thought the woman was selling her own stuff! That’s what I get for hanging out with artists…
I love how Robert has recently been highlighting his eyebrow scar with colors and sparkle 🥰
Loved this video. Also, as somebody who grew up in Utah, MLMs are well loved by Mormons and that state. Apparently it's the unofficial MLM capital of the world. Thanks for the education!!!
Ex Mormon from Utah here, can concur!! My first job out of high school was as a customer service agent at the doterra call center. Ick.
Wow that's wild I had no idea and it makes sense honestly lol. No offense to any religion but that one is definitely a bit odd and now that I think about it, several people that I know who were practicing Mormons also participated in MLMs and one lady in particular who owned her own business started doing an MLM on the side, it was really weird but anyway, their first big meetup after the company started was in SLC. Thanks for helping me connect all the dots lol!
Yes, this is bc Mormon women are discouraged from working outside of the home so these jobs are an option for them they make Money
Yup. Can totally confirm this is true. As someone who also grew up in Utah (and still lives there).
Not surprising-from inside the cult, they would not see the scam, or if they are high ups in the cult, they are professional scammers.
I mean…Tim Ballard.♥️✌️
A collab of Robert and CC Suarez is the combo we needed but didn’t dare to dream of. 😃
🥹🖤🖤🖤🖤
Same!!!!🎉
Savannah Marie would be a better collab.
@@autumn5130she sucks.
Yes!!
I’ve literally lost friends because I don’t want to buy their body shop etc stuff because they treated it like a personal offence for not buying their stuff and "supporting them". The mentality is crazy
Same here
Also me 🙋♀️
It’s unfortunate and disappointing but it was probably good you lost those friends.🫤
@@RP6575most yeah, it's a shame but I see them bombarding others now and think I'm glad that's not me anymore
Thats crazyyyy! Ppl are so full of themselves
It is very much a cult. My friend joined an MLM and it consumes all of her time and energy, she has blown me off numerous times to be with her “cult”. She explains it as a major business opportunity and how she could open her own spot one day when she has enough people under her. She has also posted so much false advertising to her page to get people to join her. It’s really sad to watch.
It’s really sad. I have a friend that’s bought into this mess as well. Specifically this product line. And I just refused to buy from MLM’s. And I feel like I’m getting heat from my friends now because I won’t buy any of this shitty makeup.
@@lralou8 it’s crazy how they don’t see what they’re doing. They see it as not “supporting them” but it’s really us not supporting a toxic company’s scheme. It’s such a prey type field. I get follows on social media from people I don’t know to not even follow a full day before the “hey hun!” Message, not to mention the people that say you can get $1500 if you comment on their post. It’s all traps and schemes, I have no idea why people do it. The time and energy they waste is ridiculous
I love when they say that they have a business opportunity and that they will get to retire early because all their hard work is going to pay off
The lies they tell!!! "Shampoo is 80% water but Monat is only 40&". Then they all like each others bullshit content.
I've been in THREE different MLMs in the past and luckily I came out unscathed, HOWEVER, we would stay up until midnight on social media trying to help people rank on the last day of the month, everyone wanted to pretend they were your best friend, and oh my gosh the SYMPATHY stories people would tell to get people to buy from them make me sick.
THIS!!! ALL OF THIS!!! I have been w two different ones and the amount of time and money I have WASTED is sickening. And truly, the amount of “friendships” I lost when I did what was best for myself and my family and left the company makes me sick. They don’t care about you. They care about you making them money. It’s truly a cult like environment. The moment you snap out of it and realize that it ain’t it, they ice you out.
@cassidypham629 yes! And those old "friends" are still MLM hopping to find one to make them money. But every one is "THE one!" Ughh!
Glad you were able to get out! It’s pretty scary stuff.
That is a very sad thing about MLMs. People are all too happy to play friends when you are helping them meet sales quotas. As soon as you leave, they all drop you. I am glad you came out unscathed financially.
@@cassidypham629Absolutely! Not true friends at all.
Wow! Over 40 minutes of content. I haven’t watched all of it yet but great work! It’s an important subject and it’s great to spread awareness.
Thank you so so much! 🖤🖤🖤
And with the wonderful Chelsea! So exciting
Robert is moving beyond make up to righteous anger and revelation against corporate, "Influencer" & brand malfeasance, mendacity and scumbag chicanery... I am HERE FOR IT!!! Loving the scar as a highlight and please keep on. We need you!!!
yes, I love Robert!!!
I love this comment and I will employ the word "Chicanery" in my regular vocabulary now. Thanks! ❤😅
I left an abusive marriage with three children and I don't adamantly stand up for and credit Uber for financing the leave, I credit MYSELF.
I once joined MLM. What I got from them were depression, ED, and losing lots of money. Before joining their team, they would say like “get easy money, just post on social media.” After joining, you would hear “you’re not doing enough. You need to sacrifice your life/money/friends for money that supports your future”
I've listened to some team calls that have been uploaded to TH-cam, and my god these people treat their teams terribly. If my boss (at my actual job where I actually get paid and get actual benefits) treated me like that, they would be lucky if I gave them notice instead of walking out on the spot.
@@AnastasiaRoseDamrauwas it beach body?!
I got a good laugh at the "girl who used to bully you" comment! It's so true - people who don't like you want to scam you into buying something. It was also the moms of boyfriends I dated in HS who tried to push their products on to me just because I was dating their son.
It’s so true isn’t it! 😂😂😂 this is why I love Chelsea and her dry humour!
The girl who bullied mercilessly for three years sells R+F - definitely some schadenfreude there! She's a physical therapist, so it's probably not about the money. She probably got sucked in because she had a lot of acne and bought it herself...
These MLM people are so predatory. Unfortunately, my niece fell victim to an MLM and her mother doesn't care. Unfortunately, not a lot of family talks to her much because its always a sales pitch and not a visit. Shes so brainwashed, it's sad.
It’s so sad 😩
WAIT THE GOLDEN SCAR.... THAT'S SO FUCKING COOL... It reminds me of Kintsugi! That Japanese art of fixing broken pottery with gold so that the break shines as a beautiful feature. Love it!
Now anytime I see anyone defending an MLM anywhere on the internet I just want to comment "EXAMPLE!"
Yes!! 😂
I work in court so I say exhibit a lol
I unfortunately got sucked into this back when they were Mascara 😢 I lost so much money! Stay away from MLM’s! Only the top 5 people actually make money off of your hard work! Believe me!
Absolutely! They are set up to make people loose money. It’s awful
Im currently doing beauty in college. We had a little assingment about running are own salon and what that would entail. The last group was led my a girl who sells Tropic. She desinged her whole salon idea behind it and brought a bunch of products in with her. I was astounded that no one could see what was happening. She was ready with magazines and getting everyone to try the products. Lots of the girls who attend with me are either single mums or women trying to make ends meet and i knew exactly what she was trying to do.
Omgggggg like there’s no shame at all!! 😩🖤
Tropic are shameless. I've seen them at an event here in Edinburgh with their stall. Admittedly I have bought from them once when I was getting into skincare 😬 Had no idea about MLM's. Regardless of that the products were sh*t. The SPF irritated my skin and it went red and bumpy. Awful! It separated within a couple of days as well, it was so gross.
Ew! That is some nasty behavior (and product, apparently)!
So gross
They really should absolutely ban MLM products being "sold" in these types of environments.
I had to laugh at the "demi method" demonstration video. Of course putting tiny dots of makeup on your face is going to look great if you already have great skin! "It covers my acne" what acne? Is the acne in the room with us now?
A lady tried to recruit me for one while I worked at Sephora she went above and beyond to ask about my haitian background and then offered me a possible job at her law firm. When we meet for the interview on my day off she tried to get me to give her $300 to start selling products 😟. I was so angry. I left and felt so sad that she wasted my time. I felt sad for her she seemed nice but was desperate to get me to join. A wild time smh. Can’t believe they are still doing this to people.
Was it her law firm or was she an employee? I would be pissed. If she was just an employee there I would report her to management. Either way, how shitty of a person do you have to be to use someone’s ethnicity AND their possible desire to move to another field of employment as a way to scam them.
Did you figure out why she was so interested in your heritage? Did she get bonus points for every minority recruited? (I’m kinda being a smart ass but kinda serious.. I wouldn’t put it past them)
I used to get sucked into clicking on Seint links because they really target older women. Now I recognize those dirty crusty all in one cream palettes and click off asap.
😂😂😂😂!!! That’s exactly what they are!!
Why are they always dirty and crusty ???? Like , guuuuurl why would I want to buy anything that looks gross ?
Saw ppl look into the ingredients and say it's crusty bc it's paraffin wax, not cream. Is that even safe for skin 🤢
And my whole objective is to buy makeup because it's pretty. Obviously, I want the products to work well, but packaging is like 50% of it for me.
LOL....dirty crusty all in one cream palette. YES Margot!
Chelsea is a class act. A well spoken queen 👏
Love her!
You forgot to add something. “A well spoken queen of the couch people” 😂
All hail Queen of the couch people! 😂
And her makeup is on point, too.
I lost a friendship over Mary Kay.
Difference was that I just had become a licensed MUA back then and I worked on my own. This former friend got caught up in Mary Kay and kept telling me I did my job wrong and what not. Also that I would do more money if I also went with MK as my primary brand to use.
This is 14 years ago.
Also THANK YOU for saying Tiktok calling old techniques etc new silly names or think they've discovered something while we've been doing it for decades.
One of my best friends didn't realize she joined n MLM and neither did I, I ended up buying some skin care from her (this was also like 10 years ago) to help her out with her sales. Her manager took the credit for the sale, she got no money. I tried to return the shit I bought because I didn't want it from the manager and they ghosted me. It was Nu Skin. Who knows what garbage I ended up using on my skin. I'm sure James would gasp. They prey on young women who aren't knowledgeable on the subject yet. Thank you for continuing to spread awareness!
What I will never understand is how these "boss babes" have the b@lls to contact people they haven't been in touch with for YEARS, to try to scam them into joining their MLM. And of course it's usually vulnerable people like new mums. It's so gross. Thank Robert, this video is great ❤
Ok yes! I constantly get friend requests from people I barely know. I always go to their profile to see if they’re in an mlm and they always are. Just fishing for victims
YESS and it's always some clearly copy pasted text. Got a message from a childhood friend asking me to "review" some products because they needed testimonials to get started (whatever that even means). Then they offered me a "friend family discount" like what??? So basically you just want me to buy it. Why even bother wording it like you are asking for a favor or something when it's clear you just wanna get me to buy shit 😂. I really hope they got out.
You're encouraged to message like 20 people a day or something depending upon the mlm. Don't they realize people do not like getting asked to buy shit? Also don't they understand you eventually run out of people to sell and recruit? I think it's like ten cycles of recruiting 5 people that recruit 5 people and so on and so forth, that adds to more than the entire human population 😅. It's a shame though. I really like some products from mlms but I no longer support mlms themselves (not my friends that join thinking they'll earn money but don't) so I avoid the products.
A cousin of my mother tried make me join a MLM years ago. All the red flags and tactics that were talked about in this video, are exactly what I experienced. Cult like mentality; ridiculous over enthousiasm, mind blowing promises about money and financial autonomy , blind trust and adoration for a leader, pushy mentality about the products you are trying to sell to everyone, everyone wants to be your « friend » in this « wonderful adventure » and when you are making even one suggestion, criticism, you are « negative » and need to trust the process and reminded how the brand and the products are so incredible etc 🙄I was constantly pushed to organise meetings to present and sell products, to sell them to friends who would want to join the team and how I should have had participated to those wonderful huge meeting with their amazing ceo. Luckily for me the person who had recruited me, rapidly got on my nerves because of how pushy she was with me: I was supposed to make Instagram posts randomly with products explaining what a fairy tale I was living and how transformed I was after such darkness now I was in this company etc. And I was supposed to make lists of all people I knew to contact to sell them products and recruit them. I was very reluctant because I was strongly having the impression of a cult, and I fond the person which recruited me so fanatical that I was really reluctant. I also hated the fact you are constantly pushed to sell to friends and that this makes every interaction about money. So I cut short any contact never with my « recruiter » never bought those products again and I never want to hear from MLM again. And btw the company I am referring to, here is Forever Living an Aloe Vera products based company. Be very wary again and please boycott it. It’s a scam, a cult like predatory company.
I’ve seen so many people fall prey to these. It’s heartbreaking, because they have a chokehold on their victims. I hope you can open their eyes 💜
They do! And victims is the right word for sure!
As an ex Mormon from Utah I am no stranger to MLMs and cult-like mentality. Love both your channels, and love this collab speaking on such an important topic.
My cousins wife is in DoTerra and I was trying to tell her it's a commercial cult and she was like "I was a Mormon, I know about cults." And I'm like... THEN HOW COME YOU CAN'T SEE THIS ONE IS TOO?! It's sad...
My friend tried to pull me into Usanna and my ex mother in law tried to get me with doterra … I smelt both a mile away as fishy at 18-20 and as tempting as it sounds when they laid out the costs and everything I was like… there’s no freaking way most people have success here and I dropped it… I just don’t understand the people who are willing to fuck over the people closest to them for these MLM companies. I don’t mean that as harshly as it sounds… I don’t get it or most peoples behavior.
I also appreciate you, Robert, for educating people on such an important and often misunderstood topic
Interesting you both mention doterra bc my first real job at 18 was as a customer service rep at their call center in headquarters, only stayed like three months bc it felt so icky. I left the church around the same time too.
Hey there! I’m also an ex Mormon from Utah. 😊
Omg, everyone doing the “Demi method” looked like their faces were not only 2 shades too dark, but not even color matched, and the fact that it wasn’t blended into their necks made the shade/color difference even more glaring. So bizarre! #shudder
You also have to consider the economics of it all. If your income was truly based on sales, you would not want to create a surplus supply situation by adding more people who sell the same product in your area. Simple supply and demand. So if someone appears to be constantly recruiting, they aren't selling. They're hoping you'll swoop in and sell things so they can make money off your efforts.
Exactly!!! 🖤🖤
I was full on bullied into signing up for youniuqe. When I complained about having a reaction to that mascara I was told I MUST be allergic to GREEN TEA (which I was drinking) . I shut that down quick but others lost everything.
It’s so sad, there’s definitely a bully mentality to most up lines too
OMG the younique bs I was talked into when I was very young still haunts me.
@@ilonaletran3256 me too
Didn't someone discover it was actually nylon? I can't remember the whole story, but I think it wasn't actually "green tea fibers"
@@AppalachianAllegory worse, fiber glass! It took months for my eyes to heal
Wow just realised that a business group I was in was 100% a cult 😳 😂
Same here. We sold insurance to farmers that they didn't need.
What was the giving it away factor for you?
I tried to sell Avon once upon a time. I made $192, which is nice, but the amount of time and work that I had to put in to get that much was irritating. Also, when I found out that Avon had set up a website where clients could order directly from them and have everything shipped to their door in a few days....I knew somebody was lying bc why would a "direct marketing company" compete with their own distributors like that ? So closed my representative account and ordered some stuff for myself from the main website. Not gonna lie, the shopping experience on the main site was much easier Athe ND shipping was faster and cheaper than anything that I could have offered folks. I had to admit to myself that I had been had, and chalked it up to a lesson learned.
As soon as I see the influencer using those little palettes full of different pans, I leave pretty quickly. I already spend WAY too much on skincare and makeup for an old lady, I don’t need to go down that road!!
It’s an expensive road to go down!!
It’s a red flag 😮
The fact that they think the products and the techniques are revolutionary will always sent me…
Like girl, you are color correcting with a palette with products worth 3-digits ??! The Kryolan color corrector/concealer little towers will cost way less than that and it’s an actual professional brand that exists for ages too.
P.s Imagine, I’d recommend and prefer to put Kryolan on my face and manipulate it however I want and not go broke, than to go through all that, thank you for coming to my TED talk ☠️☠️☠️
It's really good when people outside the anti-mlm channels talk about this! Hopefully less people will fall for this type of scam when it's discussed more widely.
This is the way to use your Influence- to inform and help others. Thanks for this, Robert. I know from experience how insidious and dangerous cult mentality is having been raised in a cult religion. It literally tears the identity down and manipulates a person at every level. I admire your attention to the MLM tactics and for tying it straight into cult dynamics. Kudos to you!
I used to follow a TH-camr for YEARS and loved her and her channel, about 8 months ago she joined Seint and started pushing her link in all of her videos. I immediately unsubscribed after she was telling her audience “if I can sell makeup, anyone can” mind you she has over 300K subscribers so she of course is making money off of her subscribers. Thank you for posting this video.
wait who
omg who is she?
don’t be shy.. lol Name drop please I gotta make sure I avoid her
Naaaww I can’t call her out like this. She’s a good person and like Robert said, she’s also a victim of an MLM.
@@annakout personally if she’s using her 300k followers to get ahead.. she knows what she is doing she may be a victim but a victim can still be an abuser as well.
I was part of this company when it was called Maskcara Beauty. I never felt like I belonged, was always judged for being "the future rags to riches starlet". As if that's a compliment and morale booster. It is very much cult mentality. Thank you for making this video Robert. I love you and you brother James' channels. You inspire me as a growing beauty professional myself. You both keep it real and I really appreciate that so much.
Thank you so so much !!!!!
I’m so shocked it’s just Maskcara - I had no idea, and I very much remember how predatory they were. We were constantly banning their huns from a NAIL POLISH group I was in, they were so persistent and aggressive.
OMG I didn't realise this is what Maskara rebranded to!
Yes!! I used to follow Cara’s blog back in the 2010s and remember when she came out with her first contouring kit and liquid blush. The fact that it’s evolved into an MLM is so bizarre to me…what is it with Utah Mormon moms and MLMs??? (Don’t come for me, it’s totally a thing)
@@AmandaBabyyyyy it definitely is! It's like they have been conditioned to not really question or think for themselves?
I have a friend who bought some stuff from this brand. The products are fine, nothing to hype over though.
My friend is now convinced that it’s the only brand she can use and is considering starting her own “team” and asked me to join.
My friend is not from a high socioeconomic background and struggles financially. I have sent her this video, as well as several other pieces of information advising her to not join.
I won’t judge her for using the products, but I cannot let her get herself into an MLM, particularly when her financial situation is already very complicated.
Thank you for posting this Robert ❤
That one woman that talked about the "friends" she made, doesn't understand that as soon as she stops selling that makeup those "friends" are going to drop her and act like she's a traitor or no good.
It’s especially sad hearing about people who got sucked in after getting out of abusive situations. They take advantage of vulnerable, lonely people who want any sense of community.
Im disabled from (mainly) Endometriosis & Cyclic vomiting syndrome (theyre the only conditions i really ever talk about) and i cannot even count how many DM requests ive got on IG telling me they can cure my conditions(which have no cure. CVS isnt even known about, especially in adults. We usually grow out of it) if i just buy their essential oil or gummies 😂 it honestly really pissed me off when it all started, but now i just delete the request and move on
Nooooo!! Omg they are so awful! That’s what all the essential oil MLM sellers did during Covid! Claiming their oils could cure it!
Holy cow how predatory to blatantly take advantage of your illness.
@@RobertWelsh yeah that's when it got really bad, I'd get multiple DMs a day, and most of the time they'd claim to be "a medical professional" (they never said dr, but always implied it) and say they were an Endo/CVS "specialist" and claim to have an easy cure.
I've lost 6 organs to Endometriosis, so im ngl when I started getting the DMs I would reply and tell them how horrible I thought it was to take advantage of sick people.
@@angyeliz yeah when it started I'd reply and tell them how horrible it is to do what they did, but now I don't waste my time cuz they never actually cared about helping someone.
Ohhhh my gosh I get the same about my fibromyalgia and arthritis... If some drink or sticker could cure me I'm sure my medical team would have heard about it and we'd all be cured!!!
They seem to prey a lot on nurses for some reason. Both my cousin and older sister have been victims of MLMs, and they're both nurses.
I remember my cousin on Instagram jumping from Monet to Herbalife to Beachbody, etc. She closed all her social media accounts, so I have no idea if she's still selling those things.
My sister has also jumped from venture to venture. She modeled gym clothes to sell them (which I later learned was Zyia, a well-known MLM), she sold Scentsy, Do' Terra, etc. She mostly falls for things like motivational speakers and "self-help" books.
Edited to add to what Chelsea mentioned about suddenly having previous school bullies hitting you up in your DMs. It was never previous bullies in my case, but it was definitely people I never spoke to WHILE at school. Jokes on them, though. I'm a bit neurospicy, and I'm terrible recognizing people, so they were still ignored even when I didn't know they were selling MLMs 😂 It was always this nail polish thing they were selling, don't remember the name right now.
Saying I make 6 figures in an MLM is gross because 99% of people don’t make money. So they’re getting that profit from their down lines.
I am one of the people who was ruined by an MLM. I was trying my hardest to promote, sell and recruit and unfortunately when I left I was so far in debt with purchasing my own products to sell. This was before you could but straight through a website. I never invest in MLMs anymore because it’s really just a big company that doesn’t care about their people…
It's so disgusting to me, the way they pretend to care so intensely. Very insidious. I'm glad you got out at least!
Glad you got out❣️
I lost everything in college by joining Mary Kay
@libbyehr @baileydubs God that’s so awful, I’m so sorry to hear you went through that. One of the things I hate about mlm’s the most is that if it doesn’t work out for you, they always try and spin it like it was your fault, and you didn’t do x, y, and z, or didn’t try hard enough, and not that it’s actually a rigged system from the beginning that sets up people to fail. I hope you’re both doing better now ❤
@@hannahlanai yup exactly ❤️
24:03 LMFAO yes bc doing ALL those steps is so much easier & faster then buffing on some foundation, adding a dot or two of concealer under the eye, adding cream contour or bronzer & maybe a dot or two of liquid blush. These people are making something so simple into some crazy time consuming steps. They’re acting like doing basic makeup steps is some sort of scientific method, making it so much harder then it needs to be.
Right?! How is that “effortless” 😐
Honestly to me, it feels like they're doing that to use as much product as possible to try to get those who buy their products to do the same, thus needing to buy more frequently, as well as insisting how every single product helps, the amount of cosmetics she uses is so much more than just the few products you'd realistically "need", everything about MLMs is about making money, so I just can't see it any differently
Legit it takes me like 3 minutes to just apply pink on my undereye area, then concealer on the areas I have issues with, blend it in, put on some powder, put on some blush and do a neutral eye makeup and toss some idk gloss or something for good measure. It isn't professional or ideal but it works for me when I am in a hurry and I bet if I did all that colour nonsense it would stay on exactly as much with oodles more effort.
I was struggling after leaving a DV situation and got sucked into Ann Summers. I will die on the hill that it is an MLM. I had an area manager who kept pushing me to recruit, had to constantly keep up my kit, pay money to attend launch parties. My argument for not recruiting was “well if I saturate my area with reps I’ll lose opportunities”, after that my manager stopped throwing client party opportunities my way. I ended up in over £1000 worth of debt. On top of the debt my abüsive ex had left me in. I refuse to spend money with any MLM now. Happy to see you calling these things out 👏🏻
I remember Ann Summers used to heavily target students when I was at uni. Messed up
I love Dr. Steven Hassan! He mentions that it can be super scary to leave because all of your “friends” are your “friends” because of the mlm and if you leave to go to the big, bad outside world, you leave all your “friends” (which proves they never were your friends) and go into the big, bad world all alone.
Thank you for this! MLMs can be absolutely life ruining. They are predatory in nature and prey on marginalized and/undereducated individuals. It’s honestly disgusting and I’m so glad you are shining a light on how horrible it all is
Yes they do!!! 🖤🖤🖤
I started learning about MLMs when a woman and her husband were trying to give me Doterra oils to help my extreme morning sickness while pregnant. They kept coming into my work to push it and kept saying it would be a better opportunity for me and my baby since I can stay home all day. So glad I left that place and they haven’t bothered me since.
Omg that’s insane! Like leave people alone 😂🖤
Yikes!!! Some of the essential oil pushers tell people to ingest them which can be really dangerous if you’re pregnant, taking certain meds, and having chronic health conditions. I told one of them I’ll talk to my doctor instead of taking their snake oils.
We could write a lot about Seint. I followed Kara Brooke’s way back when she just blogged and learned basic contours from her. I bought her first makeup line directly, she didn’t like it and took it back then came up with the makeup pallets. Apparently, when launched she said she couldn’t get it I to retail stores so she did direct sales. At the time I didn’t know it was an MLM and bought a pallet. The brushes we good, the pallet foundation was a trick but I could do my makeup in 10 minutes at a time when I had little kids and it was a saver. I liked the product at that time in my life as an all in one quick look. However, more and more with time I realized it was an MLM and it began to be more cult like with recruiting and you had to order through a makeup artist and have like a log in. I don’t like MLMs and pyramid schemes for obvious reasons.
But here’s another deal that wasn’t by Robert but mentioned that I will. This particular brand appeals to Latter Day Saint women (Mormon). For reference I am a member who left the LDS church. This makeup brand is based out of Utah. Utah is notorious for MLMs (Lulurose) The founder is LDS, the siblings involved are, and many many last I knew were of the LDS faith. IMO the brand social tactics have capitalized on that particular genre of women and culture who are naive, LDS, need money, community and or a career. For reference, look at the name Seint and how it’s so close to Latter Day Saint. I stopped buying it in 2020 because it was clear they were sticking with the mlm and not taking it into stores.
I definitely got LDS vibes every time I saw one of them mfrs in my feed 😂
This is all making sense! I used to like her videos a looooong time ago…she had some good tutorials with normal drugstore brands (I know I bought a red Revlon lip butter she used in a look). But then it seemed like she leaned more and more into her Maskara line and I stopped watching her. (I’m not into much face makeup, and I really don’t like to watch glorified ads.) Thanks for the additional info.
My first question was “I wonder if this is another LDS/Mormon MLM” especially after I saw the language used in the reason for their name change (what a Saint is, and the emphasis on beauty matters) and I’m so glad you mentioned it. The MLM line runs STRONG in Mormonism, Evangelical Fundamentalism and Conservative Christendom in general and I think it’s because women in these communities are often stay at home moms, isolated from people outside the faith, and have a desire for independence and individual identity in an “acceptable” way. MLMs promise them community and extra cash and often use language that appeals specifically to that demographic. And when people from the “outside” criticize their participation, it mirrors the “you will be prosecuted for your beliefs and that’s a good thing” messaging from their religious leaders they are already conditioned to ignore. As an outside observer, I find the similarities in language and socialization between MLMs and those religious communities fascinating and the connections should definitely be highlighted more!
@@JLa_802 Well stated! I’ve made similar observations but you articulated them better than I could have.
I just finished a book by Steven Hassan called The Cult of Trump and he’s amazing at teaching the mind of cult leadership and membership. Very educational! ❤
It's scary that so many people eat this ish up! Whether it's MLMs or people, seems loads of folks are just looking to be indoctrinated. I did Rodan & Fields for a hot minute and it felt so icky even though the products are straight-up amazing.
I was thinking about the cult of Maga too. I think there is a lot of cross over.
Most people that vote for Trump don’t actually like him… I hope you realize that.
@@c.j.r.02 everyone i know who voted for trump freaking adores him. what kind of nonsense are you selling
🙄
My ex was involved in Amway, and he got me to sign too. I've felt this icky vibe from the start, but because I was 19 (he was 25, and yes, I know now, so don't get me started on the toxicity of the relationship) I went with it. After a couple of months of going to these seminars and trying their products I realised how predatory and brainwashing these people are, so I stopped going and (after a few fights) broke up with the guy too 😅
Isn’t it insane how weird they make people!!!?
My brother was once big into Amway. I didn't understand much about it at the time, because there's a big age difference between us and I was so young, but WOW... looking back on it now, it was WILD. The older couple who had an Amway store in their house, their adult son who recruited by brother at age 22-ish, the cult-like behavior + a strong faith/church connection... did you know that Amway once had a band making songs about the company? I had a cassette of their single "Go Diamond", which contained the lyrics: "Quit clownin' around and go Diamond, oh, oh, go Diamond" Diamond was their top sales tier... 🤣
What is toxic about him being 25? Lol
@@zoecain123haha yeah i thought that, that is a normal age range, its barely a gap. Goodness when i was 19 i was living wih a 37 yo 😂 (he was toxic!)
@kibblegingercat it's not normal because of the emotional maturity. The age difference amount is okay on paper. But try to remember how confident, emotionally secure, and able you were at that age. Some 19 yr Olds have very little real life experience as they have worked maybe 1 job or only gone to college. The more you know 🎉
In 1999 I'd just moved cross-country and was looking for jobs anywhere I could find. I answered an ad in the paper, took a bus out to an address I ASSUMED was an office, but instead found myself in a suburban neighborhood. Turns out the "retail" job was a meeting of a bunch of ladies in some woman's garage. As soon as we were able, another woman and I got out of there as quickly as we could. At the time, I was flabbergasted that the host expected me, a person new to the area with no money, to be able to buy boxes and boxes of stuff to sell! It was only a few years ago, hearing about MLMs, that I realized what that "job" was really all about.
Literally lost of my best staff supervisors to Monat, I’ve never seen someone so brainwashed by shampoo thinking she was going to win these luxurious trips to Paris, cars you name it they promised it to her.
She spent so much time during her shifts posting these products she had never even touched in person that she gradually neglected her work more and more until ultimately it had to end. She flushed years of a career down the drain for shampoo.
I got sucked into a well known MLM years ago before I understood what they were. The hook was my love of make up and a long held dream of becoming a make up artist. What I loved was teaching people some techniques that I had learned myself and therefore I was not a very successful salesperson. But I would get extremely stressed because they were trying to get me to be somebody that I wasn’t. If you didn’t hit the mark after a while you wouldn’t be quite as included as you were before (though not necessarily shunned). The wake up call came when I had sold Christmas baskets - I had ordered so many products to make up these baskets and ended up losing money when a few of the sales I had made cancelled. It caused arguments at home for me as well. I’m so grateful that I got out but it took me a while to see what had happened, and what they were.
I have a few friends who sell Seint and you’re not wrong about the cult nature - super religious girls I know as well 🤔 Honestly the foundation HAC creams aren’t terrible products and my makeup always looks good when I wear it. But would never join or repurchase. Plus it’s all OVER PRICED $12 for a single pan eyeshadow that’s not very good quality and cost more than Pat McGrath per gram?!
Omg the eye shadow is so bad I know a girl who sells it. She posted a video of her putting it on and it looked like nothing at the end. The eyeshadow left the room vanished into the ether
I know you probably want to help your friends by buying the products (or maybe you just like the products) but by buying them you’re lining the pockets of the predators who run MLMs and take advantage of people like your friends. You vote with your coin so if you can buy elsewhere, (and if other people do too), these MLMs will have to stop.
Yep, what @lilcharbo said - if you support the MLM financially, it will continue to thrive and take advantage of people. For the price they’re demanding, buy yourself a nice Pat McGrath palette, or get some singles from Clionadh. ❤
Are they LDS?
That's why they were so easily sucked in, they're religious girls.
I wish I could like this video more than once!! When I was a teen, a friend recruited me to join her juice plus team (is that brand still around?). I revoked the contract after a week, and luckily got my money back, after going to an event and seeing and feeling the cult-like mentality firsthand. It was scary… And ever since I’m trying my hardest to tell and warn people about MLMs!
Omg 😩 so many people have experiences with MLMs it’s crazy! 🖤
@@RobertWelsh thank you for using your platform to speak up against them 🖤
Dude juice plus was one I almost got roped into!!! I figured out it was juice plus after doing investigation, she never told me it was juice plus 😂 thank God I was too broke to join at the time haha
Now someone needs to talk about all the mlm's and "cults" in the hairsrstylist industry. Whew, it's crazy. Bunch of stylists getting a little famous and then feasting on new hairstylists money by scamming them with private tutor sessions or classes that end up not teaching them anything but costing them everything
Robert, babes, I GASPED when I saw the gold in your eyebrow. This is my new favorite thing. It’s like kintsugi with makeup, I’m obsessed.
My mom almost signed me up for this... She saw this post by a woman on Facebook saying she was looking for "young girls for a marketing job" and my mom reached out to her in my regard (without asking me first, mind you 😂) because she thought it would have been a good idea; the moment she told me about it, I asked her what the "marketing job" entailed ("messaging people you know and selling products at a local scale") but I immediately realized it was a piramid scheme and got FURIOUS! From the "young girls" search to the vague description with circumnavigated language, super predatory. She was looking for young women to scam out of their money by forcing them to buy a load of products from her, and my mom was readily signing me up.
I know my mom had good intentions, but she is SO misguided for stuff like this - and she didn't even sign herself, she was signing ME up! Even at the cost of coming across as super rude and sort of aggressive to strangers or my own mother, I'm not falling for any of this.
(Sorry for grammar mistakes and whatnot, I'm from Italy)
Ho avuto un'esperienza simile con alcuni miei parenti che, purtroppo, ci sono ancora dentro fino al collo.
My mom got roped into doing Mary Kay and a jewelry MLM and i saw how horrible it was for her. So ive always been aware of how bad MLMs are, so Chelsea and Isabellas(along with other anti MLM influencers! I just dont follow anyone else) content was an easy yes for me. Plus they're both entertaining, i love Chelseas spicy side😂🫶
Stay spicy mama
Her vibe and Robert's really click!
I fell for this back in 2018 and ended up spending 300 dollars to have the worst breakout of my life and look so greasy and orange it was a wonder of science 😂 I’m so happy you’re talking about this scam and that my two faves are in one video 💜💜💜