New 2023 HARLEY DAVIDSON CVO Unanswered Questions?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มิ.ย. 2023
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New 2023 HARLEY DAVIDSON CVO Unanswered Questions. HARLEY DAVIDSON has announced the new 2023 CVO Street Glide and Road Glide models including the new M8 121 VVT engine, new suspension, new brakes, and new infotainment center.
#2023 #CVO #Harleydavidson #streetglide #roadglide
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0:00 Intro - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Think I will keep my current bike. The 121 would be great to have... but the cost fact that having no payments is even better
If I could afford it I would go ahead and purchase a current Road Glide Limited and wait a couple of years for the kinks to be worked out of the new 121 and features before I bought a bike with the new features.
Fell in love with the Highway King and traded in my 2020 CVO. No LCD display and all classic. Bought it now - no need to wait for something else.
I've said this before but I think them being able to slip in water cooling under their breath and have people focused on mainly the TFT dash might be the greatest sleight of hand ever pulled off in motorcycling. I have a hunch that this bike is really going to grow on people who are fence sitting. $42k financed over 6-7 years with trading in your paid off bike that's worth $10k puts the payments at $430 a month. High for a motorcycle yes, but when people are paying $1k/month for their new 4x4 pickup it doesn't seem all that crazy.
As a non-HD rider, I feel the most important thing with these new CVO's is that they can be purchased and ridden as is. They will(hopefully) not need expensive upgrading to be at an acceptable performance/comfort level, ie: suspension, engine, lighting, seat, bars, grips etc.
I like everything on these new bikes except the looks, which is huge for me. I don’t care what a bike has on it if it’s ugly.
It’s difficult to even plot how these up grades will progress in the touring models , but i do like the new display on the CVO models I would definitely like to see them on the Tri Glides
The new display is the most significant upgrade.
I could see Harley putting the VVT into smaller displacements for the other models, reserving the 121 for the CVOs.
IDK Mike, I am not a CVO guy, nor am I "finance-a-bike" guy. If I can't buy it with cash, I ain't buying it. With that in mind, and at nearly 60 years old, I will likely never own one of these bikes, no matter into which models these changes are added. I have an 11 Ultra into which I have invested hours, dollars, blood, sweat, and tears. (And after Dead and Company @Fenway tonight, a new clutch!) The shiny new object is nice, but my Ultra is MINE, and thats it for me. ❤
My local HD dealer says 90% of their customers hate these new bikes. That's why the bike they have in stock are flying off the showroom floor.
Sat on both models in Budapest at the 120th Anniversary, Pretty friggin awesome! Fairing LED blinkers are not sequential.
Mike your videos are very helpful and informative
Glad you like them!
They're really worth it!😮
I have a used 2002 Fatboy with only 18,000 miles on it. I’ve upgraded quite a few needed things. I paid cash for everything. It’s simple. I don’t need a stinking infotainment center on my bike. I need the wind, a road away from the city, and to be left alone. Pretty simple. I can’t stand the direction Harley has chosen. They need to build a really great simple cheap starter bike in the 750cc range with a six gallon tank, six speed, belt drive, cruise control, simple speedo and gas gauge, with a windshield and two saddlebags standard with a great seat, a great suspension, dual front breaks, water cooled, with a crash bar, hiway pegs and comfortable hiway boards for $9,000. It needs to get 50-60 MPG. Now you have a bike that can do both city and long range cruising that most people could afford. Harley needs to build a bike that people of all ages globally can afford and they need to do it now. These big fancy $40,000-$50,000-$70,000 bikes are for a very few people who can afford stuff like that. Harley wake the F up and get back to building a simpler bike people can afford. The simpler bike needs to be built solidly and keep things simple on it. It doesn’t need 100 HP either. 50 HP is plenty for a 750 cc twin. Come on Harley wake up.
I agree. and I would add that HD needs to focus on overheating issues, crappy lifters, sumping and plastic cam bearings. Focus on longevity and not just beauty. Anyone can make a turd pretty. If your engine fails, you now have a boat anchor :-)
Im excited for the used market!!!
A lot of people will wait to see how many problems they have with the new model year has. We all know there will be some but what will they be is the question. I love the new stuff that is coming and I'll probably never get rid of the rootbeer. I have 87000 on her and plan on not getting new till I'm over 100, so hope them upgrades get to new model years soon cause I doubt I'll ever buy a CVO. Thanks for you input and video ride safe our friends.
If all of these features are included in other models, what differentiates the CVO’s from the rest of the touring models? If I’m running HD, I would have two different inner fairings and keep the analog gauges and smaller radio for a more basic model. They still need to run the plant with a certain volume of output and not all of us can afford a CVO. I’m sure the outer fairing, bags and tank design will transfer to the ‘24 models. Who knows, maybe they announce the 2024 models early at the 120 party in Milwaukee and they are building them now with shipments starting just before the Anniversary rally??? I really don’t think they announced the CVO’s early just because of a couple of leaked photos. There’s way too much advanced planning and timing for such an event.
It's about time Harley offered features Indian and Honda have had for years, but a new Pursuit Elite still offers more for less money, and the DCT Wing is way ahead of both yet costs the least.
Try the BMW K1600GTL. It beats the GW.
@@joshrandall5297 I considered a K1600GA, but the nearest dealer is over an hour away and that DCT transmission in the Honda is incredible. I'll probably never go back to a manual.
Plus these bikes mentioned don't need their starter clutch or compensator changed every 20k.
I test rode one while I was in Sturgis this year. It did have a very impressive ride. It was so light off the stand, I nearly shoved it over on the other side when I was picking it up. I like the looks of both overall. I prefer the looks of the batwing even more with these new models than I ever did before. The suspension was great. The ride modes were nice. The engine was powerful. The infotainment was great. I think there are a few fit and finish issues which they should address. The bags being a little bit rounded kinda bugs me. Maybe I can get use to that though.
I did about 120 miles on them at Sturgis with HD. I like the bags actually cause I think it will pack better. I agree with you… video coming in the next few weeks!
I have a 2019 street glide special with stage 2 and legends on the rear, thinking of doing on the front and having this bike as a keeper. But, 121 with good suspension with power and torque above my bike, and useable with suspension upgrades, well that would get me to keep mine as is, then buy ST street glide
I love the new CVO's , I would like your thoughts on the Hero 440 Harley. Jim Z
IDK I think people will always be looking for more power regardless of what stock comes with. My guess will be that the 114 / 117 will get VVT in 2025
Good video and great points, but one thing jumped out; "Some people are concerned about having all your instrumentation managed by an electronic device...no analog gauges" On all later model tourers, the instrumentation is already managed by the computer. There are no more analog gauges in the functional sense. Although the needles have the classical appearance of analog, the data is delivered to those dials from the ECM over the bus just as in this new CVO. So those people won't be losing anything other than the traditional appearance. Although I absolutely agree that the timing was bonkers. And FWIW, I did decide for my own part that it was worth it, and I put down my deposit and ordered mine!
You have a lot of good comment and a lot of good questions. I would want to wait and make sure they don't start having problem with VVT. I am sure in 2017 they didn't expect to have all the oiling problems on the M8 engine. For me the price is the biggest killer! All these new parts are still Mass Produced and they are still put together on an Assembly Line. With all the quarterly reports that you see, do they tell you how many units they are producing is a DAY? The total numbers of each bike per year?
No the closest they do is maybe say number of bikes made annually by class touring, cruisers, street
Concerning touring models…
With the economy slowing down, inflation, interest rates up, Indian slowly taking market share and with most the existing models not changing in MY ‘23 leans me thinking the specials, ST’s, possibly the limiteds getting the new design in 24 to keep sales going. If HD doesn’t ‘24 is looking like it will be a slow year for HD and it’s dealers. ‘23 sales have slowed a lot . I’d be surprised if HD puts the 121 in these bikes but could see the 114/117 with the VVT mainly due to emissions. Maybe still installing the crappy rear suspension on non-CVO’s until 2-3 years slide by?
I wasn’t thinking of trading my limited on another until I saw the new CVO’s. I like the new design.
Keep up the great work Mike!
Exactly my thoughts for my ‘18 RKS. After seeing this I cancelled my stage 2 upgrade. Why spend money when in 6 months a new motor may be arriving.
Harley should have done a 120 c.i. engine (for the ann.) instead of the 121.
I’m waiting
Great video and questions. Any chance if you know the sound of the exhaust will be enough to not worry about upgrading it with slip ons? Also, there is no video mentioning if these CVOs are coming with central locking but another video presenter said he sources indicate they would come with this.
I was told by someone in the know it does have the same locking system as previous models. I don’t know about the exhaust yet.
we need a CVO triglide !!!!
It all makes sense, I have a 2021 RGS and put 4 grand into it and i havent touching the motor yet so I told my self to stop dumping money in to it do to me just geting the new model instead. I have to have the new model theres no turning back.
Exactly,at the price they will ask for those bikes,with all the specs from start,no need to upgrade and no more money anyway for upgrade,everything seems to be perfect from the start and it should be,and I mean everything seat bar lights and so on
Standards 107
Specials 114
ST 117
CVO 121
I believe that would be a good start as Harley has always kept the CVO with its own engine until the release of the ST and this would put bikes in every price point for the consumer.
Maybe have a drag mode for the ST since many of those bikes are set-up as performance/race bikes.
I think you’re right. For those who upgrade their engines standard 107/114 and those who will ride stock other than stage 1 buy the 121 VVT.
The reason they did this early is because it’s at the 120th celebrations in Budapest right now!
Europe gets it first and 60 are being shipped to Europe right now.
Hey Man Mountain Mike, I like the upgrades HD made to the CVOs but I'm NOT in the CVO market. In fact, a majority of HD riders are not in that market. I don't have the kind of disposable bank needed to roll out on a CVO. I wounder how long it will take for the improvements to roll down to the Special and ST models. I hope since there was no big price bump to offset the R&D on the new CVOs, the new features will soon roll down to the other touring models to help cover the R&D costs.
I also hope the new VVT system helps push back the Revo Max engine far off into the future on the touring bikes. IMHO, the brake and suspension upgrades can't roll out quick enough on the other touring models. That's my thoughts on this one brother. I'm out for now and y'all peace out. Been way too many gangster type activities going on with some MC's lately. I hope it all ends sooner rather than later.
I know what you mean on the MC stuff. We had it here a few years ago at the Lake of the Ozarks.
I can promise you one thing. HD ceo doesn’t care one little bit about pissing off the customer. Sometimes it almost seems like that’s his plan? Harley is going to follow the plan into this brave new world of Budweiser cans and clean emissions scores and inclusiveness. Yaaaa Harley! So much for the “rant”. As far as “new technologies” go, everyone I know (with a few exceptions, including myself) won’t even ride the NEW M8 Harleys much less anything with vvt, rider modes, and electronic gauges! For those of us who live in the real world, I love the changes and look forward to it. My FXLRS only has 6k miles on it so I’m gonna be riding her for a loooong time still. But should I happen to need a second bike? You better believe I’m waiting on the upgrades! Most likely I’ll get a rev max bike! Vroom, vroom!
I have definitely stopped any plans on new mods on my current bike because of the cvo
If I was Harley I’m not never will be , but! Me!? I’m cumn out with the 121 on different models and make m CVO models Suspension brakes and whtevr else the CVO’s already announced have. Roadking would be nice!
Good question tho and I’m gonna have to give it some more thought…
You guys wanted HD to catch up to Honda and Indian, both of those bikes still out perform this new CVO and as far as the Indian, people are buying them and still swapping out the exhaust, lights, etc. The screen is killer and I have no concerns since the auto industry has been using full on screens for complete guage setups and no one has had a issue, so it's a solid tech. I fully expect Honda and Indian to implement that soon. I think the CVO paint job and engine will be the distinct features over the other models.
Shit! I’m still rolling a 103 twin cam. I’m happy with a 114 m-8 special. Plus, this stuff happens all the time. The very next Year something bigger and better.
They are working on killing the aftermarket just like the auto industry tried to do a few years back. VVT can be a great thing if they have gotten rid of the oiling issues that the older M8s have had tuning will be great if you understand how it works but depending on the software they use what will it cost because you will almost need a dyno and several hours of running data before you get it right unless you get lucky
with the price of these new bikes , and the suposed quality they should be weighing the rider when they order and have that suspension rated for the rider. totally i love the road king special id wait for the 121.
I'm more pissed that they're pushing the RG over the FLHTK it's apparent in their description of each model and not having cvo the last 2 years. I believe the RG is cheaper and faster to construct.
👊🏼😎
Does Ford had two completely different body styles of F-150? Does Honda have two different body styles of the CRV? Certainly there are different trim levels but the body is the same. In my opinion, Harley wouldn’t spend the money on R&D and tooling to produce only two models of CVOs for an extended period of time while also producing the current versions. Financially it wouldn’t make sense to continue making the “old” touring bikes after spending the kind of time and money it took to reinvent the touring platform for CVO models only. I think for 2024 we are going to see all the lower trim levels get retooled similar to 2014 when the “Mt Rushmore” were introduced with different trim levels getting different features/ engine sizes.
I completely agree that the way in which these bikes were released has anyone interested in buying in the near future reevaluating their decision and that has affected sales. From what I’ve seen, dealerships in my area have been increasingly more motivated to move inventory.
Personally, I have been hearing rumors of “big changes” coming to the touring line for a few years now and it has kept me from getting serious about upgrading my ‘15 UL. Mine has been paid for for quite a few years now and as awesome as the M8/ new radio/ new colors are, if I’m going to have a bike payment again, I wanted to wait for the next generation to be released before I made a decision.
I just wish they would of made the bike more competitive with the 36k Indian Challenger Elite. More HP, Torque, fully liquid cooled motor and better suspension for 6k less and the new road glide CVO looks like the challenger now
The downside to Indian is they are really ugly. Well, and you’re driving an Indian.
I wouldn’t buy a stage! They had to do something with the CVO cause everyone has the 117 so could be waiting a long time before it hits other bikes.
I'm seriously thinking about trading in my 20 rg limited 4 one, stop it ur killing me br!
Only 35 of each coming to Australia
Do you know if they will be made in Thailand as well?
The 107 is the best for upgrades. Plus there’s the 117, 119,122,128, and the 131. You have plenty to choose from. If you not upgrading your bike why do you even care? LoL you guys kill me with that.
I have a 2023 107... plenty of power and runs great. In my opinion, these engines are getting way too big. Big displacement equals big heat.
The CVO should become a premium brand like Lexus, Infinity, Acura, etc. cvo is not performance but mainly luxury and comfort if it were to become a premium brand they could make smaller models but with more luxury and better finishes, I guess...
Whose to say that the 121 VVT engine will be the standard VVT engine? It could be a 114 or a 117 or lower.
You're on the money, big mistake to announce these changes mid year. Everyone will wait for 2024. Remember when the original Twin cam came out in the Dynas and not softails no one wanted the soft tails that still had the EVO motors. The smart money is to wait until 2024 and get the upgrades on the none CVO models. They've just destroyed sales of the remaining old school models. I love the new bikes but would not pay the insane CVO prices.
Since most of my last predictions were off by at least 45 degrees I'm willing to be wrong again by declaring that the next model with the upgrades will be the bike that went missing this year. Surprise, it will be the Road King!
Sorry but I disagree. I think they will hit the Ultras, STs and Specials next. Not as much profit on a RK as on a Ultra, ST or Special.
@@cornbread8246 Yeah, you're right about the profit motive. It just seems weird that their most standard traditional touring bike is a no-show.
First of all, the prices for these bikes are astronomical... secondly, who in their right mind would purchase a first year HD model with an untested engine combination? We all know that new HD engines takes several years before they iron out the bugs. And for one, I have no interest in being HD's test rat. Thirdly, HD needs to focus on technology that will allow these big bore engines to run cooler. For instance, the HD 131 race engine overheats. So, they incorporated an air scoop on the horn side to direct more air onto the rear cylinder head. This is something they need to consider for consumer models. It is ridiculous that HD owners have to spend so much money trying to keep their engines alive long enough to enjoy. Simple things like oil cooler fans should be standard on all touring machines. Another feature that should be added is an oil cooler temp gauge so you can monitor the heat so you don't destroy your engine. Do you know if the new CVO models have this feature in their digital display? With that said, good on HD for their efforts. I predict we will see a full water cooled engine in the near future. Especially so if this new engine setup still overheats. Thanks for the info :-)
Well I say everyone that buys a new 2023 touring bike since the press release will be throwing rocks at their shit come 2024. I say both SG and RG will come with this new design. Hopefully they loose the streamliner footboards forever! And what will the cost increase be?
Dealers are not giving good trade in values like they were 2 months ago and the showrooms are packed with new RGs and SGs .....packed!
I call this new CVO a HarleyGoldWing. Who can afford the price?
Did you forget the CVO is their flagship bike? So of cause those CVOs will get them first.
I'll take a Softail Evo any day over that high priced bike. 42K for 2 wheels? Thats crazy and we ride for the road anyway, not for the technology.
My retirement bike, coming soon. The bike, not retirement. 😂
Lol I don't plan on 1 2 3 or 4 on my 100 ho heritage peace peace Mike
Until my motorcycle is completely destroyed I'll keep riding it ,my rocket 3 has 150,000 miles and still going fine.
Exactly. I agree 100%
A big issue with the vvt is tuning it after you replace the hideous air cleaner and put on some pipes.
People have been easily tuning other motors with VVT so what’s the big deal? It’s gonna be so much cheaper to make big power, especially with the compression ratio of this engine
@@Twilson_Vtwin Who? I would love to know. I bet you have zero experience in tuning.
@@HDR20 You both make valid points. There are going to be some teething pains w/VVT tuning. How much can you phase the cam (especially aftermarket cam setups) without hitting the pistons? How much more lift/duration can the phasers tolerate before needing to delete the system? It's going to take trial and error. What I will say is that VVT motor's in general have more room for improvement than non-vvt. I wouldn't be surprised to see these bikes putting down 120rwhp with a pipe and tune.
@@DoctorMotorcycle I agree the power will be awesome with the vvt motor but know it will be hard to tune. They still have not got the tuning right with Harley new rds system.
People I know that are Professional Mechanics say more often than not, for significant upgrades, they delete the VVT, From what I am told VVT upgrading will be a bigger deal.
Hey Mike, Just as all the MoCo does…. Beta testing in progress.
You not getting that vvt yet unless you buy CVO
The new display and motor are the only real investment here and the VVT was expected to come to meet the new emissions standards.
The upside down forks and radial mounted brakes are parts bin industry standards. With the wheel base, rake, and trail, being identical to existing models points out that there is no real upgrade here. This is the same out of date frame we have had for over a decade!!! The rear shock set is nothing special that you could not buy from third party manufacturers already. You kept touting suspension upgrades but there really isn't one here or nothing more than an owner can already do to this obsolete frame which we know they kept.
The weight loss is likely from changes to the materials used in the body pieces, replacement of older style wiring and harnesses throughout, and the wheels. Seriously, outside the motor and infotainment/display this was an extremely low effort revision.
Why announce them so early? Harley has little to spin positive news. I recently purchased a new FXLRST and honestly I see zero reason for buyer's remorse. I did rent a 22 Street Glide and settled on the Low Rider ST because it was such a better motorcycle. Seeing what they did not change on the new CVO tells me that the same issues will persist on the tour line, the need to replace the rear suspension day one, finding a windscreen that works for me, and such.
Harley is still the only manufacturer of "premium" tour models that do not offer an electronically adjustable windscreen, monoshock rear suspension, and remote locking bags; yes I know the CVO has them the Special and Ultra line up won't.
The infotainment has me very concerned if one element in it goes bad. Does the whole system go down. Then you suck somewhere, and there's a nogo .
You will still go out and buy new suspension.
Expensive irrelevant gewellery and thats from a lifetime Harley fan. The street bob is the only true Harley left in the range. In UK i haven't seen a new registered Harley this year!! Plus never seen a sportster S on the road since release. Sad days to be honest.
The variable timing makes that motor sound like crap. Watch videos that the engine can be heard. Has a very unpleasant sound. Gone is the day of that beautiful harley rumble sound 😢
An all digital dashboard doesn't look good, or seems right on a HARLEY...
It’s not just about you . Aftermarket isn’t a brand’s concern why should it be? Harley’s not making any money 💰 from your aftermarket purchases.
You don’t have a clue how much aftermarket means if you feel this way. The reason MANY people choose Harley is because of the aftermarket for HD and they work with aftermarket vendors…
So, Harley CVO is still 10 years behind the competition. BMW K1600GA is worlds ahead, the BMW R18TC again worlds ahead, the Honda Goldwing worlds ahead, the Indian Challenger 10 years ahead of Harley. The BMW is $20-25K less than the CVO’s, the Indians are $5-10K less and the Honda is $20K less than the Harley. The ONLY thing that the Harley has that is better than the BMW or Honda is the V-Twin Sound, and the Indian has the same soothing sound. So WHY? WHY? WHY would you buy a Harley? - I don’t know, but the DAMN FAST JOHNNIE is really appealing… LOL, I own a 2023 Challenger, and a R1250R BMW both amazing bikes and love them.
42k ? Yeah ok
Harley Davidson is dragging their feet. While they drag people are buying Indians, Hondas, and BMW’s. Harley Davidson has the Revolution Max Platform and HD needs to get to it and stop hanging on to these pushrod, primary chain in oil with tensioner ratchet system. I got a 107 special I bought in 2017 and I am in no hurry to do anything.
I don't want a a water cooled hdit will cost to much . The roadglide is ugly.And all the upgrades have been out for years on non harleys for years. Just more over priced H.D.
it's a lot of money , bring back the slim ;;; nice and basic ;; i'am the first to like and comment ,, i am now famous ;;;; but still cannot afford a cvo;;;;;;
If you want nice and basic, the softail standard and street Bob are available 🤷♂️
@@vinniemadrox yes , but i have the heritage which is a good used buy rather than 25 k for a new one ;;
@@simongilbert2704 if you already have a heratige, why are you complaining about the slim? You're not buying one anyway.....
@@vinniemadrox i am not , i am saying that the range of bikes has diminished;;;;;
@@simongilbert2704 the range of bikes has "diminished"? That seems like an extreme statement, just mentioning a single trim level of althea million softail models 😂
Don't waste your money on that thing get a Indian 116 thunder stroke it will run circles around that Harley and CHEAPER 😂😂😂😂😂
I have rode that bike and I would buy a BMW R18 before that Polaris. My 103 with a stage 1 has more hp and tq at the wheel then it has. And the price when you go to buy them is very little difference and the dealer network for Indian is not nearly as big. 😂😂😂😂
A lot of talking but no substance! Wtf
Tab's performance has no plans on have a black chrome exhaust systems. Cin-Cin and Salute 🫡👌👍🙏