Update: We now know from a VERY reliable source that the "80nm" chips are actually still 90nm, the die size shrink was due to optimization in the design. This was old misinformation that was never questioned. Everything else said about these chips is accurate.
Do you know how reliable a CECHG01 (fat PS3 with matte finish on the disk slot) is? I’m afraid to crack it open and mess around, but I’ll gladly do it if it’s going to have the same thermal issues that the earlier models had.
@@CRACKBONE7317 Sadly it's no more reliable than any of the BC models :(. The CECHG is more similar internally to the launch models than to the later phats, just without the features the launch models had. Obviously after all those years it's never a bad idea to replace the thermal paste. A delid on the RSX might also help if you're feeling confident enough to do so (I found the Cell to be a lot harder to delid successfully). You could also install CFW to adjust the fan curve. Ultimately though, I'm afraid RSX failure is probably inevitable on a CECHG. But there's nothing stopping you from enjoying it while it lasts!
I read the entirety of "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Low Tg" and recall that a 5c difference below that threshold can exponentially prolong the affected chip. I am curious to why you don't consider ramping up fanspeeds a "fix"? Oh and one more thing I remember you mentioning that not all xenons are plagued by the soldering issues. Why is that? Different underfill was used?
Because people apply them after the fault has already developed in a futile attempt to prevent it from happening. *MAYBE* if you had a new console that never started developing issues, and you kept it under 70C on the GPU (don't touch the CPU), then *maybe* it would last longer? I don't know because pretty much all the defective consoles have died, so we don't have a big enough sample size. I have some launch thru 2006 defective units that run fine despite being heavily used and crossing the Tg many times that *just work* for some reason, so you need big sample sizes to make a determination. In addition, I've seen units that were fan modded since very early in their life die, possibly that can be blamed on the TSMC Low-K process issues? Not a big enough sample size to tell. TL:DR, a "fix" implies the underlying problem is corrected. Increasing fan speeds doesn't do that. The chemistry of the construction of the chip is bad no matter temps it runs at, the chips are defective. This is also probably why MS never bothered issuing a software update to raise fan speeds. Xenons refurbished in mid 2008 and newer will have fixed GPUs installed, version X817791 and later Elpis X819195 that are High-Tg chips on a fixed Low-K process. Those chips are solid.
I don't know why, but I find these videos absolutely fascinating. I'm not kidding when I say, these console documentaries you do are some of my favorite videos ever on TH-cam.
same, and i was never a big console guy - always PC. there is something about the console market though that is fascinating - unfortunately, and also fortunately, consoles are getting more and more bland and just becoming locked down PCs. It makes sense, but its also not as interesting when every console is a ryzen with RDNA graphics
Another great video Felix! Very informative. I'm glad we don't have to deal with these issues over on the Wii modding side of the scene. One opinion-based correction though. For AV, I would personally say the 360 is better off. Because the console launched before HDMI was standardized, Microsoft implemented VGA support (and later DVI through the hdmi port) with a huge variety of resolutions and aspect ratios, along with a pretty robust scaler, to try to make it work with everything. The PS3 supported 5 resolutions across 2 aspect ratios, while the 360 supported 12 resolutions across 3 aspect ratios. The PS3 did not support VGA or DVI, and its implementation of HDCP can be a limiting factor on what devices can be directly connected to it. So once HDMI was added shortly after launch, the xbox 360 supported pretty much every video connection one could ever want.
@@ripfelix3020 Don't blame you in the slightest for that! Its not often discussed outside of the CRT junkie circles. You can expose all display resolutions by disabling display discovery in settings.
The 360 also had a 1080p upscaling solution for all games whereas the PS3 would only upscale to 1080p if the developer specifically implemented it. To be fair the PS3 did have more native 1080p games, but I remember PS3 ports always looked a bit softer because of this.
@@kyle52905it depended on the game and colors palettes that devs were using. Most devs used washed out color palettes, so even upscaling games was difficult. Mind you try playing madden 10 or games that had a good color palette scheme. Difference between components vs hdmi was night & day. However certain games that had really dark backgrounds or sandy beaches and or jungles looked washed out perfect example far cry 2, bioshock 1, 2. Fallout 3 and new Vegas as good as those games all were the color palette scheme were definitely horrible no matter which console we were using. It was till 2010-2012 that games really started using a deep heavy color palette scheme or used the hdmi upscale technology. Mind you even in 2005-2008 most people were still using CRTs… So devs knew using hdmi was mostly pointless to use when most CRTs couldn’t upscale to 1080p or 1080i in the first place… I remember working with Koch media during the ps3 days and a lot of the games under THQ going from ps2 to ps3 was a nightmare. Games like juiced 2 and many other games that released during the first 2-3 years of Xbox 360 & Ps3 and porting the back logs of Ps2 games was not fun at all…
@@kyle52905fun fact if you have a jailbroken ps3. Turn on stats for nerds or if you still have debug dex, or evil nat. Games like Juiced 2, pro-street, carbon, gta 4, etc are all being displayed at 480i- 720p, but the ps3 upscales to 1080p or 1080i depending on the monitor or tv you are using… Hence some of the games look the worse, when playing on modern tvs. If you use a crt or old flat screen, the colors are much more noticeable… especially for games that were released from 2005-2009.
Even as somebody who was around for all of this happening, the level of detail and research present in this taught me many new things, not only about the consoles themselves, but also about the office politics and corporate makeup of the games and wider tech industries; and how shaky the alliances that bring us video games and other consumer electronics really can be when things go wrong. Also hot damn I really wanna get into PS3 collecting now before the prices go wild.
@@Poketroid23 I still have my original PS3 and a good chunk of my games, but there's always gaps in the collection and there's definitely a few more expensive titles on my wishlist, so I'm definitely keeping my eyes peeled, I just need to motivate myself to navigate the cable nest behind my TV to set the PS3 back up.
Aside from the generative imagery used in parts of the video, which is quite the nightmare fuel (in the literal, bad way), I enjoy these long-form informative deep dives very much. That was another very good video. Thank you and Josh for sharing your hard work with us. PS: Aren't those some proper credits / citations? Indeed they are. 👌
Your video is incredibly informative! I learned a lot of about the stories behind the console GPUs. Your test to check if the underfill is good or not is very useful too. I want to thank you for researching this topic so thoroughly. I really enjoy this type of content, and I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing more of it from you in the future! Keep up the fantastic work!
Josh's contributions to the 360 are..... Put it this way, there are no words. Thank you for all your dedication, my brother. It's a shame you moved on, but good for you for pursuing your dreams. Maybe one day you'll give the same dedication to another console some day! I can't believe how many folks thought 360 was the BGA grid when the error reported was stricctly contained on the interposer. Thanks for that explanation, that should finally convince all naysayers. Not all heroes wear capes...
God, regarding the "bolt mod", Gamestop made it a policy to do this on every fat 360 they got their hands on at somepoint. I've picked up two Jaspers from thrift stores with Gamestop warranty seal stickers on them and both were bolt-modded. Both were immediately replaced with normal X-clamps and one of those motherboards lives in my Halo 3 console now, which has at least 1000 hours on it so no long-term damage was done.
I should add this was done outside the US as well. Have had two Xenons picked up, as well as a Zephyr, which have had bold mods done before I got them. Two of them still live (and one has a cool Assassin's Creed decal!). The Zephyr didn't survive and has ended up as a shell donor to a very beaten up Jasper.
Oh man, the bolt mod. My uncle was the victim of believing this would fix his xbox. Around early 2007 his xenon red ringed. Instead of waiting a few months for a replacement (as told by him) he opened it up, ordered from the usa (to poland) the „Xecuter xbox xtreme edition repair kit” for a expensive price. And flashed his dvd drive. Unsurprisingly his console red ringed a month later and he threw it in the bin.
O kurde, Polak! Z ciekawości wszedłem na twój kanał i chyba kojarzę twój post z r/xbox360 o zdemolowanej 360'tce i powiem tyle: dobra robota z twoimi filmami. Masz suba ode mnie, czekam na więcej filmów bo wykonanie jest zaskakująco dobre.
@@unknownaccount01 dzięki! Niestety Jasper nadal zdemolowany :( sprzedaje zepsutą płytę na OLX, natomiast udało mi się zrobić RGH na tym drugim falconie! Więc film raczej będzie. Jak będę miał czas oczywiście
@@unknownaccount01 o ja, sorry. O złym poscie mowa. Myślałem że chodzi ci o mój post na r/360hacks o płycie którą zdemolowałem. Nie nie, ten Falcon który był roztrzaskany nadal żyje, zamontowałem w nim RGH, natomiast ten lepszy Jasper. Zniszczyłem go
@@KuraV12 Zdarza się najlepszym, też raz uwaliłem płytę i mój znajomy co jest byłym serwisantem też mu się zdarzyło coś zepsuć w 360tce. Niby dosyć prosta konsola ale jednak trudności zdarzają się każdemu.
@@unknownaccount01 szczerze mówiąc nie nazwałbym tego prostą konsolą, jeżeli jeszcze nie ogarnąłeś. Wychowałem się na og xboxach, uważam że znam te sprzęty bardzo dobrze, podczas wakacji w zeszłym roku siedziałem całymi dniami nad schematami płyt głównych i oglądając filmy o naprawie/instalacji modów. I zaczynając pracę z 360’tką, czuje się jakbym był w innym świecie. Flashowanie nandu?! Nigdy bym o tym nie pomyślał, ale komplikacje aside. Uważam że jest to bardzo fajna konsola, i napewno jest o wiele prostsza niż ps3. Ile się męczyłem z ps3 rozbierając ją i robiąc delida. W ogóle może byś mi pomógł, mam plan żeby zamówić części z AliExpress. I zrobić własną stację do BGA. Nie ma za dużo tutoriali o tym ale jednak wiem jak te sprzęty działają i myślę że udałoby mi się. Robiłeś kiedyś takie coś?
This whole thing was a mess for Microsoft, but the knowledge and things learned here really helped the entire industry in places beyond Microsoft. Not to say a billion dollar recall is good, but it was going to happen somewhere at some point and it lead the way to current chip packaging as well as QA testing on cutting edge launches. Microsoft also does not get enough credit for doing right by their customers and just doing the recall. We have seem time and time again tech companies trying to weasel out of these things, even today. NVidia will likely make this recall look trivial in the next year or so because I really think there is going to be a massive and very expensive recall on 4090 GPUs for the power connector issues along with a class action lawsuit.
Loved this follow-up! I don't know much about the Xbox 360 as I stuck with the PS3, but the hectic nature of this generation was interesting to witness and go back to completely understand what was causing all of the system failures that plagued the 7th generation.
As a guy that did Xbox 360 and PS3 repairs as a side hustle 5+ years into their life cycle, I don't like the statement of "GPU failure was the most common reason for an RROD" because it just wasn't a few years in. Cheap thermal paste was a BIG culprit of so many console "fails" from that time period, presumably because of the same issues with the solder being weaker - different compounds. Solder breakage of HDMI ports was incredibly common, as were disc drive failures in both Xbox and PS consoles. Xbox especially has always been bad about cheap disc drives, leading to lasers that just stopped being strong enough to read the discs, leading to the incredibly common and incredibly frustrating "Open Tray" error, or the 360 reading a 360 game as a DVD but then telling you to put it in a 360 console to play it when you hit play on it. That said, great video that I learned quite a bit I did not know from, especially about the few times I could *not* fix a console, because I didn't have access to the same information then as I do now. Wasn't easy finding out about how to do that secondary error code thing 10+ years ago. Fast forward to 2016 and the release of the Xbox One X and MS puts out a machine that routinely had capacitors on the board that were too weak, and they were the caps handling charge from data transfer to the storage unit and controlling the disc drive. The blu-ray drives in Xbox One gen consoles also have an issue of going bad when they're not used all the time. So the shift to digital gaming is partly responsible for killing our disc drives too. Thanks, Xbox. Really appreciated that $500 brick of an Xbox One X. Liked and subbed! Will be watching your PS3 video next!
Yeah, that's true. I am focusing more on the lingering stock of cheapest consoles on ebay...which of cource are going to the hardest fixes or issues that people avoid. When any console is current the mundanely common damaged port is a repair shop's bread and butter. I think I'd go insane if I had to do switch USB or PS5 HDMI ports all day every day.
@@ripfelix3020 Oh, I literally won't xD I don't like doing soldering enough to do that work outside of a personal project I'm doing for my own satisfaction. I actually just sent a dude with a wiggly HDMI port on his One X to the local place to get it fixed, as I just CBA LOL All told, loved the video though. Learned quite a bit. And I think the Rubric was a bit off. PS3's GPU was notably weaker so giving it "better HW" is a bit naff, and Xbox Live in that area is flat out responsible for mainstreaming a lot of social media features we think of as normal nowadays and was definitely a more "premium" feeling experience compared to the free PSN and especially compared to paying for PSN when that first became a thing.
@@thed3m0n0id9 Well it wasn't meant to be an unbiased opinion. It was a list of preferences from my perspective, which would probably sway a different way for others. Which is fine. It's good to have options. I imagine if I had more time during the 7th gen for online multiplayer, 360 would hold more fond memories for me. But I was a broke college student with no time or money for XBOX live.
i can relate very heavily to the whole "childhood" thing. my entire teenhood and childhood was HELL. i do NOT wish to go back even years later and i still have a lot more to do before i can even BEGIN living. I just wish things were easier :c
Thanks for this incredible documentary. I learnt a LOT of things about Xbox 360 and PS3, especially with their defective (or not) GPUs. I always thought that both 90nm and 65nm RSX were defective until the CECHK PS3 model. I regularly share your videos as a reliable source on French Discord servers to help people to repair correctly their PS3 (And also to explain them that a Heatgun and no Syscon diagnose can't really help to fix properly a console).
Love the video and the actual research you've done and provided The 2012 style song outro into the credits for a mini documentary caught me off guard well done
Love it Felix. I went through every stage of misinformation in this video in real-time. Microsoft denying my warranty is what got me into console modding and repair. I loved your PS3 video and Josh's work on the Xbox 360 was absolutely revelatory to me when he presented his findings in various Facebook groups. Keep them coming.
I was waiting for something like this since the ylod video. You probably make some of the most well researched videos on these topics and I like how it's not super "professional" and soulless. Edit: For the end bit I think its good to mention the 360 was one of the first consoles to appeal to the popularity of indie games at the time with 360 arcade. The PS3 was extremely late to this and never really fulfilled this niche honestly at least from my perspective at the time.
your getting into the technicals was super interesting. Great doc! I think your rubric including free multiplayer for ps3, could include that the free multiplayer came at a cost of poorer performance, and more importantly a number of critical cyber-security failures that saw the service go offline and credit cards hacked. There's no doubt X360 started super-strong, and going into Kinect withered, and the PS3 launch version and slim version have had tremendous legs. Many folks still claim the PS3 is the best blu-ray player available.
Amazing video felix. Watching it was a blast and it sparked my curiosity to check the repair of my own 360 since it suffered the rrod at the time. A 2006 model repaired presumably in late 2008 (seeing the date stamped on the replacement backplates) I thought it would have had a "fixed" gpu but it still has a Y1 model. So I guess it does still have the low-tg underfill? Now I can finally go to sleep knowing that my 360 still has the capabilities to rrod like the good old times ☺️
@pcm720 actually it's the X817791, thank you for the info! I didn't thought they would still use the older chip in 2008. A bit sad that it lost the ticking bomb feature, it gave some charm to the box :)
@@Ambarrabba I wouldn’t be surprised if they still had a lot of bare Y1 dies lying around and just repurposed them for warranty repairs once the underfill issue was figured out. Why replace the whole console when you can simply replace the GPU, getting rid of obsolete GPU dies along the way?
Congratulations on putting so much time and energy into this project. It shows. I run a business buying/selling/repairing laptops but your videos have inspired me to finally track down an OG fatty PS3 with BC and fix it up. I've got 2 Japanese first run CECHA00 to experiement with.
The XMB on the PS3 is also my absolute favourite user interface for a game console. It looks good and is incredibly functional. It is wild to me that Sony got worse and worse at designing a GUI with the PS4 and PS5.
All of your videos are absolutely fantastic and I loved them all. I Also love this one. I kept sending people who were wrong about ylod to your channel. Keep up the good work!
Man these two videos are awesome even though I'm a phone repair guy I'm more into consoles and these kind of videos look awesome to me especially when it comes to this particular generation
I love your videos man, yes they may be rambly but you can feel your true feelings better that way and whilst that may add bias in some scenarios, you're so knowledgeable about the topics (and when you're not you do insane amounts of research to make sure you are) that I never feel like that's a real possibility. PS: The credits are fire
I love the way you started this video off!!! I too was starting high school and I think 2000 or maybe 2001? Either way I remember in the year 2000 getting a PSone(the remake) and a dream cast and everybody eagerly awaiting the PS2! I swear, though, those days back then before the Internet, and we were all connected, and all the bullshit that we have to deal with nowadays that we are bombarded with, back, then was simpler and better! Every time game came out it was worth it to buy it to own for just about every single game franchise that you liked? I didn’t realize you were going to even talk about Xbox, but halo is what got me into Xbox and the reason I still have one today! we used to Lug around a suitcase that would hold a PS2 and some controllers with an Xbox and some controllers and all the cables, plus have your 27 inch TV!!! All of this, just for the purpose of going to somebody’s house, where other people had already arrived, to play multiplayer battles in halo over LAN! It was so awesome and bad ass especially if you had all three? I didn’t have all three until I was about 18 or 19. Once I had my own job… Awesome video bro !
I remember during my time on uni, friend of mine had super expensive Asus laptop - gaming model. It was around 2007. It had bad nVidia GPU, I remember us taking it apart and "baking" in the oven - in special "box" made of cardboard and aluminum foil. It helped him for a while, but eventually it died. :-) Thanks for your videos, like other folks mentioned in comments - I think it's my favorite documentary series on YT. Greetings from Poland!
You have posted some great info. I actually had a broken 360 of earlier models. I disassembled the console and the board had hundreds of solder points where the solder had holes in them and were more like balls instead of circles in the PCB. The solder was anything but setting properly. They were also very brittle and I don't know how that could ever pass QA, even for lead free solder. I have only ever seen anything like that on OLPC XO 1.5, which also failed after a while. Same solder points with holes, but not as bad. I only think the failure rates were so high because there were solder issues everywhere. Anything could fail. The solder in RAM chips could fail. From my memory, there were many early RRoD with black screen, E74 "bump errors" came much later. That said, I had a Jasper, which was supposed to be safe, after some 3y failed in Forza 4 with graphical glitches. Never came back...
Very fascinating video. At this point in time it's past the life cycle of the 360, microsoft's best move currently would be a source code release so emulators become more accurate, or some sort of extended software preservation effort(maybe a catch-all program that ports a game to pc). Any hardware can and will fail in the future because of thermal stress no matter how well it's repaired/maintained, but the games will be remembered
I've gotten to the point where I just click all the vids that show up under notifications without even looking, so that intro music crashed through my window and hit me in the face like a supersonic rock. That rock had a note attached to it: "WELCOME TO FELIX'S VID!" Needless to say I'm set for the next ~2 hours
Amazing video my dude. Hopefully this video will help people understand the 360 GPU more and stop all the stupid myths and "advice" of why RROD occurs and how to "fix" it.
Never underestimate the power of wishful thinking and misinformation. Nothing will ever remove the desire to believe what you want over the truth. The best we can do is recognize when it's biasing our decsicions and choose to balance our research so it's not pigeon holing us into a false sense of reality.
Great breakdown. Thermal fatigue can happen with every material and the issue worsens with larger components. Same reason hyperloop was doomed is the reason your gpu dies.
I have a JTAG'd Falcon that still works fine today. Knowing beforehand that thermal cycling was the biggest culprit behind failures, I removed the DVD drive (as I will never need it), and replaced the GPU heatsink with a CPU heatsink instead. I built a custom fan shroud to accommodate the difference in profile. I completely externalized the HDD by housing a fast 3.5" drive in a 3rd party enclosure, with 12v being tapped from the DVD drive power header. While it may go against the originally designed thermal path, these changes allow the console to receive additional fresh air through both the DVD tray slot and stock HDD locations without requiring any alterations to the chassis or external case. I found no need to set custom thermal targets after these modifications since both the CPU and GPU never exceed mid 60° C. Overall fan noise is lower than stock as the dies do not reach the high temperatures of a stock console. Knowing what we do now about the CPU's durability vs the GPU, I firmly believe that the earlier 360s would not have suffered such high failure rates if they had only made the decision to reverse their positions on the motherboard layout during design. But there's no way they could've known that at the time. 😕
Really really interesting! I had a May 06 console, so it was still an OG console. I remember it having freezing issues when the room was hot. They did a system update and that mostly eliminated that problem for a while. Sure enough mine eventually became a RROD console after 18 months or so. I fixed and cured the RROD by removing the X-brackets and then using screws/washers to hold the heatsinks tightly to the CPU and GPU. Then the DVD drive eventually started having issues, which caused the drive to eject during play. I ended up getting a replacement drive, and transferred the unique decryption key to the new drive- also while modding the drive so that it would play burned discs. And ultimately what killed my May 06 console was the CoD MW mass ban wave. I ended up getting a core system in 2010 as a replacement when it was $180-200 for that Christmas, and then transferring the chrome bits and HDD over making it a full system, and it still works just fine.
Man, amazing how you can cut right through; maybe educate some kids here what the deal really was; what really happened as we know it now. Thanks so much for all you did, and do; seems your whole channel needs to preserved just for gaming history alone.
Funny that the guy at the Sony press conference said “the next generation doesn’t start until we say it does” and then the machine came out and wild. It was a beast, none of the games looked anywhere near as good as what was on the 360 at that point! It took him a few years and then started to close and even then I would still argue that all third-party games looked better and played better on Xbox 360 and this is coming from a PlayStation fan who got the very first PlayStation for Christmas in 1995 at 11 years of age! The three was just awesome! I feel that way about the PS3 also because it does quite a few things as well.. I still have the slim model PS3 as I wasn’t able to get one until 2010?!?!?! But it still had all the user interface features like being able to put music and movies on it, but it was not as “free” as the 360 became? On Sony’s machine you could use all of that music that you put on the hard drive to play custom soundtrack in the background of some of your favorite games like with all Xbox 360 games, unless the developers of the game specifically implemented through the game itself? Gran Turismo five and Gran Turismo six and well… Gran Turismo has always been my absolute favorite Sony PlayStation game of all time anyways- I still have the first one and the second one in mint condition black label copies! I wish I still had all of 30 some odd pS2’s I had during its lifetime but unfortunately they were Stolen or traded in every time I needed some money…
Exellent video explaining everything, i should retrieve my Slim PS3 with a YLOD and see whats up. sadly some of my old HPs have GPU issues and i don't think I can fix them, but they start working once they get a little warm so it's good enough for me
I sold a serviced Xbox 360 on eBay way back because I had bought an arcade Jasper to replace it for the hdmi port. The shipping address was a base in Iraq. Whenever I see that clip of the soldiers shooting the Xbox I can’t help but think “maybe that was it” lmao
This is like an episode of Clue. "It was the Packaging Partners in the Interposer with an Underfill". Great research as always RIP Felix. I didn't know you were a scientist until you said so in this episode, but I should have guessed based on how meticulous you are with the details.
Also Apple was a victim of bad Nvidia GPUs inside of their Macbook Pro Laptops back during 2008 and which is one of the reasons why they never dealt with Nvidia ever again. I am glad that you updated your findings about the 65nm models and admitted that you made a mistake in your data. So if my Slim dies it won't be because of the RSX chip.
As awesome as these videos are(and they are AWESOME) they just make me even more frustrated that a permanent fix for these calls for equipment I can't afford to buy or assemble myself. Maybe one day though...
Great video, man. Love technical deep dives like this that set the record straight and dispel all the longstanding myths and falsehoods being spread around by confidently incorrect know-alls with no actual engineering knowledge, experience or qualifications. Between your videos and Rodrigo Copetti's superb articles I feel like I finally have an accurate understanding of the 360 and PS3 hardware, architecture and history at a much lower level than I could ever have had as a technology enthusiast when the consoles were still flagship products. If I can make one very minor and pedantic critique though; the BBC's initials stand for British Broadcasting *Corporation, not 'Channel' as you credited them as 😁
lol, there was nothing "transcendent" about AAA gaming on the 360 and PS3. They occasionally had some good games (e.g. Arkham and Dark Souls games) but not anything life changing. That was the gen that first felt incredibly stale to me with the exception of the Wii, and I had both a Wii and PS3! Great video!
i remember those years too, like you've said not the best/happiest years in my life. i can much relate with your situation, but instead of it being in the US i was in Ukraine so a playstation 2 at the time costed like almost two montly paychecks. take care and keep up the excellent work !
You are way too far from the thruth. The 360 by the point when the chips prone to RROD were selling (let's say around summer 2008), had around 20M sold units. So even if all of them RROD, that's 20M, and we don't know if every single person had bought 360 again or maybe jumped on PS3. But even if all of them bought another 360, that's 20M. The total sales till the 360 went of the market (2016) were close to 86M. So, 20M is less than 25% of that. And with having in mind that probably some people jumped on the PS3, it's more like 20% of all 360 buyes can be because of the RROD, (which will be 17.2M out of all 86M users). So you are way too far from the thruth and the half of the units, which should be 43M.
@@XtremeBG First, I said "I think" which is a guessed opinion based on some raw numbers. Second, if the total sales of the 360 were about 86+ million units, with 20 million corresponding to bad units, and at most another 20 million replacement units sold again (which can or can not be bad units themselves, lots of people bought bad units to replace their first bad unit), that adds up to 40 million, which is the guessed number I've said before of total sales made of bad units (without counting hardcore gamers that bought more than one console). Chill and don't overthink it. It's just chit-chat.
@@GuillermoTessi No, its not 40m, cuz the one 20m you would still have them cuz either way they would bought them. Because there was a problem those people bought second unit again. So even if all of them bough second that is 20m extra. Withiut the problem those extra 20m would be there. So its only no more than 20m. Like I said 20-25%, far away from half..
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Update: We now know from a VERY reliable source that the "80nm" chips are actually still 90nm, the die size shrink was due to optimization in the design. This was old misinformation that was never questioned. Everything else said about these chips is accurate.
I have a Falcon from August 2008, is it reliable?
Yeah, it should be. You can open it up and check the GPU just to be sure, though.
Do you know how reliable a CECHG01 (fat PS3 with matte finish on the disk slot) is? I’m afraid to crack it open and mess around, but I’ll gladly do it if it’s going to have the same thermal issues that the earlier models had.
@@CRACKBONE7317 Sadly it's no more reliable than any of the BC models :(. The CECHG is more similar internally to the launch models than to the later phats, just without the features the launch models had. Obviously after all those years it's never a bad idea to replace the thermal paste. A delid on the RSX might also help if you're feeling confident enough to do so (I found the Cell to be a lot harder to delid successfully). You could also install CFW to adjust the fan curve. Ultimately though, I'm afraid RSX failure is probably inevitable on a CECHG. But there's nothing stopping you from enjoying it while it lasts!
@CRACKBONE7317 The CECH G, H, M (and Q?) All have the 90nm rsx and so will have reliability issues. All the BC ones, the SEM board and DIA001
Fantastic video my brother, and I am very glad I could be a part of it! :)
Hey dude! I miss chatting with you. Hope your health is doing ok!
Everything is good, thanks!
The legend himself
I read the entirety of "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Low Tg" and recall that a 5c difference below that threshold can exponentially prolong the affected chip. I am curious to why you don't consider ramping up fanspeeds a "fix"?
Oh and one more thing
I remember you mentioning that not all xenons are plagued by the soldering issues. Why is that? Different underfill was used?
Because people apply them after the fault has already developed in a futile attempt to prevent it from happening.
*MAYBE* if you had a new console that never started developing issues, and you kept it under 70C on the GPU (don't touch the CPU), then *maybe* it would last longer? I don't know because pretty much all the defective consoles have died, so we don't have a big enough sample size. I have some launch thru 2006 defective units that run fine despite being heavily used and crossing the Tg many times that *just work* for some reason, so you need big sample sizes to make a determination.
In addition, I've seen units that were fan modded since very early in their life die, possibly that can be blamed on the TSMC Low-K process issues? Not a big enough sample size to tell. TL:DR, a "fix" implies the underlying problem is corrected. Increasing fan speeds doesn't do that. The chemistry of the construction of the chip is bad no matter temps it runs at, the chips are defective. This is also probably why MS never bothered issuing a software update to raise fan speeds.
Xenons refurbished in mid 2008 and newer will have fixed GPUs installed, version X817791 and later Elpis X819195 that are High-Tg chips on a fixed Low-K process. Those chips are solid.
I don't know why, but I find these videos absolutely fascinating. I'm not kidding when I say, these console documentaries you do are some of my favorite videos ever on TH-cam.
Mine too
same, and i was never a big console guy - always PC. there is something about the console market though that is fascinating - unfortunately, and also fortunately, consoles are getting more and more bland and just becoming locked down PCs. It makes sense, but its also not as interesting when every console is a ryzen with RDNA graphics
@@loz9324 They're locked down until they're jailbroken.
Another great video Felix! Very informative. I'm glad we don't have to deal with these issues over on the Wii modding side of the scene.
One opinion-based correction though. For AV, I would personally say the 360 is better off. Because the console launched before HDMI was standardized, Microsoft implemented VGA support (and later DVI through the hdmi port) with a huge variety of resolutions and aspect ratios, along with a pretty robust scaler, to try to make it work with everything. The PS3 supported 5 resolutions across 2 aspect ratios, while the 360 supported 12 resolutions across 3 aspect ratios. The PS3 did not support VGA or DVI, and its implementation of HDCP can be a limiting factor on what devices can be directly connected to it. So once HDMI was added shortly after launch, the xbox 360 supported pretty much every video connection one could ever want.
interesting point. Yeah, I'd like to explore that further. Didn't get a chance to really dive deep into their comparable AV outputs.
@@ripfelix3020 Don't blame you in the slightest for that! Its not often discussed outside of the CRT junkie circles. You can expose all display resolutions by disabling display discovery in settings.
The 360 also had a 1080p upscaling solution for all games whereas the PS3 would only upscale to 1080p if the developer specifically implemented it. To be fair the PS3 did have more native 1080p games, but I remember PS3 ports always looked a bit softer because of this.
@@kyle52905it depended on the game and colors palettes that devs were using.
Most devs used washed out color palettes, so even upscaling games was difficult. Mind you try playing madden 10 or games that had a good color palette scheme. Difference between components vs hdmi was night & day. However certain games that had really dark backgrounds or sandy beaches and or jungles looked washed out perfect example far cry 2, bioshock 1, 2.
Fallout 3 and new Vegas as good as those games all were the color palette scheme were definitely horrible no matter which console we were using. It was till 2010-2012 that games really started using a deep heavy color palette scheme or used the hdmi upscale technology.
Mind you even in 2005-2008 most people were still using CRTs…
So devs knew using hdmi was mostly pointless to use when most CRTs couldn’t upscale to 1080p or 1080i in the first place…
I remember working with Koch media during the ps3 days and a lot of the games under THQ going from ps2 to ps3 was a nightmare. Games like juiced 2 and many other games that released during the first 2-3 years of Xbox 360 & Ps3 and porting the back logs of Ps2 games was not fun at all…
@@kyle52905fun fact if you have a jailbroken ps3. Turn on stats for nerds or if you still have debug dex, or evil nat.
Games like Juiced 2, pro-street, carbon, gta 4, etc are all being displayed at 480i- 720p, but the ps3 upscales to 1080p or 1080i depending on the monitor or tv you are using… Hence some of the games look the worse, when playing on modern tvs. If you use a crt or old flat screen, the colors are much more noticeable… especially for games that were released from 2005-2009.
Those gamers and executives pictures for 7th vs 8th gen are so close to looking normal but AI just always has to make things look weird
Even as somebody who was around for all of this happening, the level of detail and research present in this taught me many new things, not only about the consoles themselves, but also about the office politics and corporate makeup of the games and wider tech industries; and how shaky the alliances that bring us video games and other consumer electronics really can be when things go wrong.
Also hot damn I really wanna get into PS3 collecting now before the prices go wild.
Someone literally just gave me their PS3 because they weren't using it anymore. If you want one, now is the time, you're still early!
@@Poketroid23 I still have my original PS3 and a good chunk of my games, but there's always gaps in the collection and there's definitely a few more expensive titles on my wishlist, so I'm definitely keeping my eyes peeled, I just need to motivate myself to navigate the cable nest behind my TV to set the PS3 back up.
@@Tudsworth I should buy Afrika while I still can afford it!
Aside from the generative imagery used in parts of the video, which is quite the nightmare fuel (in the literal, bad way), I enjoy these long-form informative deep dives very much.
That was another very good video. Thank you and Josh for sharing your hard work with us.
PS: Aren't those some proper credits / citations? Indeed they are. 👌
Your video is incredibly informative! I learned a lot of about the stories behind the console GPUs. Your test to check if the underfill is good or not is very useful too. I want to thank you for researching this topic so thoroughly.
I really enjoy this type of content, and I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing more of it from you in the future! Keep up the fantastic work!
TY very much!
Failures of subcontracting companies hurting the end OEM product is a constant theme in these big events. Same issue is affecting Boeing as we speak.
Boeing is misdedigning shit too. Shall we not forget MCAS
@@aliabdallah102MCAS was due to pilots holding it wrong and a single rogue engineer at Boeing
at least HP won't murder people that say they make cheap laptop hinges
Not yet@@tcscomment
Every video this guy makes are so high quality and informative! Love it!
Josh's contributions to the 360 are..... Put it this way, there are no words. Thank you for all your dedication, my brother. It's a shame you moved on, but good for you for pursuing your dreams. Maybe one day you'll give the same dedication to another console some day!
I can't believe how many folks thought 360 was the BGA grid when the error reported was stricctly contained on the interposer. Thanks for that explanation, that should finally convince all naysayers.
Not all heroes wear capes...
I appreciate your kind words. Moved on is the wrong word... "delayed" is perhaps a better one.
Priorities...my man has to exercise his mind on the books ATM. But he's still in the game.
@@ripfelix3020much love
God, regarding the "bolt mod", Gamestop made it a policy to do this on every fat 360 they got their hands on at somepoint. I've picked up two Jaspers from thrift stores with Gamestop warranty seal stickers on them and both were bolt-modded. Both were immediately replaced with normal X-clamps and one of those motherboards lives in my Halo 3 console now, which has at least 1000 hours on it so no long-term damage was done.
I paused and made this comment before you mentioned Gamestop doing it lol.
I should add this was done outside the US as well. Have had two Xenons picked up, as well as a Zephyr, which have had bold mods done before I got them.
Two of them still live (and one has a cool Assassin's Creed decal!). The Zephyr didn't survive and has ended up as a shell donor to a very beaten up Jasper.
Oh man, the bolt mod. My uncle was the victim of believing this would fix his xbox. Around early 2007 his xenon red ringed. Instead of waiting a few months for a replacement (as told by him) he opened it up, ordered from the usa (to poland) the „Xecuter xbox xtreme edition repair kit” for a expensive price. And flashed his dvd drive. Unsurprisingly his console red ringed a month later and he threw it in the bin.
O kurde, Polak! Z ciekawości wszedłem na twój kanał i chyba kojarzę twój post z r/xbox360 o zdemolowanej 360'tce i powiem tyle: dobra robota z twoimi filmami. Masz suba ode mnie, czekam na więcej filmów bo wykonanie jest zaskakująco dobre.
@@unknownaccount01 dzięki! Niestety Jasper nadal zdemolowany :( sprzedaje zepsutą płytę na OLX, natomiast udało mi się zrobić RGH na tym drugim falconie! Więc film raczej będzie. Jak będę miał czas oczywiście
@@unknownaccount01 o ja, sorry. O złym poscie mowa. Myślałem że chodzi ci o mój post na r/360hacks o płycie którą zdemolowałem. Nie nie, ten Falcon który był roztrzaskany nadal żyje, zamontowałem w nim RGH, natomiast ten lepszy Jasper. Zniszczyłem go
@@KuraV12 Zdarza się najlepszym, też raz uwaliłem płytę i mój znajomy co jest byłym serwisantem też mu się zdarzyło coś zepsuć w 360tce. Niby dosyć prosta konsola ale jednak trudności zdarzają się każdemu.
@@unknownaccount01 szczerze mówiąc nie nazwałbym tego prostą konsolą, jeżeli jeszcze nie ogarnąłeś. Wychowałem się na og xboxach, uważam że znam te sprzęty bardzo dobrze, podczas wakacji w zeszłym roku siedziałem całymi dniami nad schematami płyt głównych i oglądając filmy o naprawie/instalacji modów. I zaczynając pracę z 360’tką, czuje się jakbym był w innym świecie. Flashowanie nandu?! Nigdy bym o tym nie pomyślał, ale komplikacje aside. Uważam że jest to bardzo fajna konsola, i napewno jest o wiele prostsza niż ps3. Ile się męczyłem z ps3 rozbierając ją i robiąc delida.
W ogóle może byś mi pomógł, mam plan żeby zamówić części z AliExpress. I zrobić własną stację do BGA. Nie ma za dużo tutoriali o tym ale jednak wiem jak te sprzęty działają i myślę że udałoby mi się. Robiłeś kiedyś takie coś?
This whole thing was a mess for Microsoft, but the knowledge and things learned here really helped the entire industry in places beyond Microsoft. Not to say a billion dollar recall is good, but it was going to happen somewhere at some point and it lead the way to current chip packaging as well as QA testing on cutting edge launches. Microsoft also does not get enough credit for doing right by their customers and just doing the recall. We have seem time and time again tech companies trying to weasel out of these things, even today.
NVidia will likely make this recall look trivial in the next year or so because I really think there is going to be a massive and very expensive recall on 4090 GPUs for the power connector issues along with a class action lawsuit.
Steve Balmer made the right call, according to Peter Moore he didn't even hesitate.
As a ps3 fanatic, watching ur videos feel like discovering a cave full of gold. Great work
Same! The PS3 is my favorite console, so these videos I absolutely love.
same
Your videos are so thoroughly researched, informative, and entertaining it's hard to convey how much I like them. This video ruled. Thank you.
Did that guy have a kitten on his shoulder? Good retrospective man. Despite owning modern consoles, my heart is with the 7th gen.
Haha, yes he did!
I saw that too!
Loved this follow-up! I don't know much about the Xbox 360 as I stuck with the PS3, but the hectic nature of this generation was interesting to witness and go back to completely understand what was causing all of the system failures that plagued the 7th generation.
As a guy that did Xbox 360 and PS3 repairs as a side hustle 5+ years into their life cycle, I don't like the statement of "GPU failure was the most common reason for an RROD" because it just wasn't a few years in. Cheap thermal paste was a BIG culprit of so many console "fails" from that time period, presumably because of the same issues with the solder being weaker - different compounds. Solder breakage of HDMI ports was incredibly common, as were disc drive failures in both Xbox and PS consoles. Xbox especially has always been bad about cheap disc drives, leading to lasers that just stopped being strong enough to read the discs, leading to the incredibly common and incredibly frustrating "Open Tray" error, or the 360 reading a 360 game as a DVD but then telling you to put it in a 360 console to play it when you hit play on it.
That said, great video that I learned quite a bit I did not know from, especially about the few times I could *not* fix a console, because I didn't have access to the same information then as I do now. Wasn't easy finding out about how to do that secondary error code thing 10+ years ago.
Fast forward to 2016 and the release of the Xbox One X and MS puts out a machine that routinely had capacitors on the board that were too weak, and they were the caps handling charge from data transfer to the storage unit and controlling the disc drive. The blu-ray drives in Xbox One gen consoles also have an issue of going bad when they're not used all the time. So the shift to digital gaming is partly responsible for killing our disc drives too. Thanks, Xbox. Really appreciated that $500 brick of an Xbox One X.
Liked and subbed! Will be watching your PS3 video next!
Yeah, that's true. I am focusing more on the lingering stock of cheapest consoles on ebay...which of cource are going to the hardest fixes or issues that people avoid. When any console is current the mundanely common damaged port is a repair shop's bread and butter. I think I'd go insane if I had to do switch USB or PS5 HDMI ports all day every day.
@@ripfelix3020 Oh, I literally won't xD I don't like doing soldering enough to do that work outside of a personal project I'm doing for my own satisfaction. I actually just sent a dude with a wiggly HDMI port on his One X to the local place to get it fixed, as I just CBA LOL
All told, loved the video though. Learned quite a bit. And I think the Rubric was a bit off. PS3's GPU was notably weaker so giving it "better HW" is a bit naff, and Xbox Live in that area is flat out responsible for mainstreaming a lot of social media features we think of as normal nowadays and was definitely a more "premium" feeling experience compared to the free PSN and especially compared to paying for PSN when that first became a thing.
@@thed3m0n0id9 Well it wasn't meant to be an unbiased opinion. It was a list of preferences from my perspective, which would probably sway a different way for others. Which is fine. It's good to have options. I imagine if I had more time during the 7th gen for online multiplayer, 360 would hold more fond memories for me. But I was a broke college student with no time or money for XBOX live.
i can relate very heavily to the whole "childhood" thing. my entire teenhood and childhood was HELL. i do NOT wish to go back even years later and i still have a lot more to do before i can even BEGIN living. I just wish things were easier :c
Thanks for this incredible documentary. I learnt a LOT of things about Xbox 360 and PS3, especially with their defective (or not) GPUs.
I always thought that both 90nm and 65nm RSX were defective until the CECHK PS3 model.
I regularly share your videos as a reliable source on French Discord servers to help people to repair correctly their PS3 (And also to explain them that a Heatgun and no Syscon diagnose can't really help to fix properly a console).
Love the video and the actual research you've done and provided
The 2012 style song outro into the credits for a mini documentary caught me off guard well done
I hope the day never comes when Felix runs out video topics for the PS3 or the 7th generation consoles. I just can't get enough!
This feels like a true sequel to the original PS3 Story
As a 65nm ps3 owner
I am happy to hear that it isnt effected by bump failure
Some 65nms are
@@aliabdallah102 nope, all are reliable. take it from someone with a very early 65nm ps3 with a very high power on time
@@gr1mkeks hmm thanks
@@maniau Never make blanket statements like that, always read the syscon first!
This video was fantastic, very well done. Keep at it man you have talent.
Love it Felix. I went through every stage of misinformation in this video in real-time. Microsoft denying my warranty is what got me into console modding and repair. I loved your PS3 video and Josh's work on the Xbox 360 was absolutely revelatory to me when he presented his findings in various Facebook groups.
Keep them coming.
My favourite generation and my favorite consoles as well! Continue covering it (if it has for what) and don't stop with the videos.
Incredibly thorough and well made video. I hope it takes off and many more people get to watch it
I was waiting for something like this since the ylod video. You probably make some of the most well researched videos on these topics and I like how it's not super "professional" and soulless.
Edit: For the end bit I think its good to mention the 360 was one of the first consoles to appeal to the popularity of indie games at the time with 360 arcade. The PS3 was extremely late to this and never really fulfilled this niche honestly at least from my perspective at the time.
your getting into the technicals was super interesting. Great doc!
I think your rubric including free multiplayer for ps3, could include that the free multiplayer came at a cost of poorer performance, and more importantly a number of critical cyber-security failures that saw the service go offline and credit cards hacked. There's no doubt X360 started super-strong, and going into Kinect withered, and the PS3 launch version and slim version have had tremendous legs. Many folks still claim the PS3 is the best blu-ray player available.
Absolutely amazing job, as always. Thank you for all you do for the community of 7th gen enjoyers.
Amazing video felix. Watching it was a blast and it sparked my curiosity to check the repair of my own 360 since it suffered the rrod at the time.
A 2006 model repaired presumably in late 2008 (seeing the date stamped on the replacement backplates) I thought it would have had a "fixed" gpu but it still has a Y1 model. So I guess it does still have the low-tg underfill?
Now I can finally go to sleep knowing that my 360 still has the capabilities to rrod like the good old times ☺️
Check the part number on your GPU. If it says X817791, that's a Y1 with the new underfill. If it says X02056, press F to pay respects 😅
@pcm720 actually it's the X817791, thank you for the info!
I didn't thought they would still use the older chip in 2008.
A bit sad that it lost the ticking bomb feature, it gave some charm to the box :)
@@Ambarrabba I wouldn’t be surprised if they still had a lot of bare Y1 dies lying around and just repurposed them for warranty repairs once the underfill issue was figured out. Why replace the whole console when you can simply replace the GPU, getting rid of obsolete GPU dies along the way?
awesome documentary man idk how your views arent higher thats actually nuts
Congratulations on putting so much time and energy into this project. It shows.
I run a business buying/selling/repairing laptops but your videos have inspired me to finally track down an OG fatty PS3 with BC and fix it up. I've got 2 Japanese first run CECHA00 to experiement with.
The rap in the credits was 👌👌👌👌
thx for noticing
feel like this video would've been a lot better without the ai created imagery.
🤓
@@gidropodstancia corny ass reply
RIP FELIX, thank you for another great documentation video.
GameStop have destroyed so many Xbox 360 consoles with the bolt mod! 😡
The XMB on the PS3 is also my absolute favourite user interface for a game console. It looks good and is incredibly functional. It is wild to me that Sony got worse and worse at designing a GUI with the PS4 and PS5.
All of your videos are absolutely fantastic and I loved them all. I Also love this one. I kept sending people who were wrong about ylod to your channel. Keep up the good work!
Man these two videos are awesome even though I'm a phone repair guy I'm more into consoles and these kind of videos look awesome to me especially when it comes to this particular generation
Underrated video. I love your explinations!
Who won the 7th gen? Dreamcast
The Dreamcast was a 5th/6th gen console, depending on who you ask
@@mysticaxolotl8215 Correct but it was a joke referring to the reliability of 7th gen consoles, making the predecessors a more favourable choice.
Hell yeah, yet another great video. Thanks so much for keeping me entertained!
I have a CECHA from 2006, still going strong to this day. Never had to do any maintenance to it other than cleaning out the vents if they get dusty.
I love your videos man, yes they may be rambly but you can feel your true feelings better that way and whilst that may add bias in some scenarios, you're so knowledgeable about the topics (and when you're not you do insane amounts of research to make sure you are) that I never feel like that's a real possibility.
PS: The credits are fire
I love the way you started this video off!!! I too was starting high school and I think 2000 or maybe 2001? Either way I remember in the year 2000 getting a PSone(the remake) and a dream cast and everybody eagerly awaiting the PS2!
I swear, though, those days back then before the Internet, and we were all connected, and all the bullshit that we have to deal with nowadays that we are bombarded with, back, then was simpler and better! Every time game came out it was worth it to buy it to own for just about every single game franchise that you liked?
I didn’t realize you were going to even talk about Xbox, but halo is what got me into Xbox and the reason I still have one today! we used to Lug around a suitcase that would hold a PS2 and some controllers with an Xbox and some controllers and all the cables, plus have your 27 inch TV!!! All of this, just for the purpose of going to somebody’s house, where other people had already arrived, to play multiplayer battles in halo over LAN!
It was so awesome and bad ass especially if you had all three? I didn’t have all three until I was about 18 or 19. Once I had my own job…
Awesome video bro !
Great video i just discovered your channel yesterday, and I couldn't believe you have made another one!!
Amazing video as always❤
Great video, definitely worth a rewatch. Good to hear the 65nm RSX is a Tank
Thanks for the video. I can see a lot of time and research went into this.
Just finished this. I’m sure this was a ton Of work but this was excellent.
Yooo something I can fall asleep to, so I'll probably come back like 50 times to this video to see it in full
Yep, I've never finished it
I know nothing about electronics manufacturing but I love these videos man thank you so much. This is very interesting.
Damn top quality video again Felix, way underrated bro
Your videos are unbelievable! I can't imaging how much time this video took...
Well researched and has no problem saying when he was wrong or what’s opinion vs fact. Lessons could be learned.
This is top notch stuff. And damn this doc really makes me miss xplay and g4 😢
I didn't realize how edgy they were until I went back and watched these. Especially attack of the show.
I remember during my time on uni, friend of mine had super expensive Asus laptop - gaming model. It was around 2007. It had bad nVidia GPU, I remember us taking it apart and "baking" in the oven - in special "box" made of cardboard and aluminum foil. It helped him for a while, but eventually it died. :-) Thanks for your videos, like other folks mentioned in comments - I think it's my favorite documentary series on YT. Greetings from Poland!
I'd say nowadays buying whatever 7th gen fits you is better but the end comparison for the launch experience was spot on
cool video but that AI Art is dumb.
You have posted some great info. I actually had a broken 360 of earlier models. I disassembled the console and the board had hundreds of solder points where the solder had holes in them and were more like balls instead of circles in the PCB. The solder was anything but setting properly.
They were also very brittle and I don't know how that could ever pass QA, even for lead free solder.
I have only ever seen anything like that on OLPC XO 1.5, which also failed after a while. Same solder points with holes, but not as bad.
I only think the failure rates were so high because there were solder issues everywhere. Anything could fail. The solder in RAM chips could fail.
From my memory, there were many early RRoD with black screen, E74 "bump errors" came much later.
That said, I had a Jasper, which was supposed to be safe, after some 3y failed in Forza 4 with graphical glitches. Never came back...
Amazing as always Felix 👍
Another banger vid by the bumplord himself and over 1,5hrs at that.
amazing
please dont use ai images in your videos, they give it a cheap feeling. great video tho
Very fascinating video. At this point in time it's past the life cycle of the 360, microsoft's best move currently would be a source code release so emulators become more accurate, or some sort of extended software preservation effort(maybe a catch-all program that ports a game to pc). Any hardware can and will fail in the future because of thermal stress no matter how well it's repaired/maintained, but the games will be remembered
I've gotten to the point where I just click all the vids that show up under notifications without even looking, so that intro music crashed through my window and hit me in the face like a supersonic rock. That rock had a note attached to it: "WELCOME TO FELIX'S VID!" Needless to say I'm set for the next ~2 hours
What a masterpiece! Better than Netflix
Chad Warden was right about the PS Triple.
Amazing video my dude. Hopefully this video will help people understand the 360 GPU more and stop all the stupid myths and "advice" of why RROD occurs and how to "fix" it.
Never underestimate the power of wishful thinking and misinformation. Nothing will ever remove the desire to believe what you want over the truth. The best we can do is recognize when it's biasing our decsicions and choose to balance our research so it's not pigeon holing us into a false sense of reality.
Great breakdown. Thermal fatigue can happen with every material and the issue worsens with larger components. Same reason hyperloop was doomed is the reason your gpu dies.
I have a JTAG'd Falcon that still works fine today. Knowing beforehand that thermal cycling was the biggest culprit behind failures, I removed the DVD drive (as I will never need it), and replaced the GPU heatsink with a CPU heatsink instead. I built a custom fan shroud to accommodate the difference in profile. I completely externalized the HDD by housing a fast 3.5" drive in a 3rd party enclosure, with 12v being tapped from the DVD drive power header. While it may go against the originally designed thermal path, these changes allow the console to receive additional fresh air through both the DVD tray slot and stock HDD locations without requiring any alterations to the chassis or external case.
I found no need to set custom thermal targets after these modifications since both the CPU and GPU never exceed mid 60° C. Overall fan noise is lower than stock as the dies do not reach the high temperatures of a stock console.
Knowing what we do now about the CPU's durability vs the GPU, I firmly believe that the earlier 360s would not have suffered such high failure rates if they had only made the decision to reverse their positions on the motherboard layout during design. But there's no way they could've known that at the time. 😕
Your videos bring me peace ❤
Really really interesting! I had a May 06 console, so it was still an OG console. I remember it having freezing issues when the room was hot. They did a system update and that mostly eliminated that problem for a while. Sure enough mine eventually became a RROD console after 18 months or so. I fixed and cured the RROD by removing the X-brackets and then using screws/washers to hold the heatsinks tightly to the CPU and GPU. Then the DVD drive eventually started having issues, which caused the drive to eject during play. I ended up getting a replacement drive, and transferred the unique decryption key to the new drive- also while modding the drive so that it would play burned discs. And ultimately what killed my May 06 console was the CoD MW mass ban wave. I ended up getting a core system in 2010 as a replacement when it was $180-200 for that Christmas, and then transferring the chrome bits and HDD over making it a full system, and it still works just fine.
Bolt mod monster...lol. I hate it, but if you got your money's worth I'm happy for you.
Man, amazing how you can cut right through; maybe educate some kids here what the deal really was; what really happened as we know it now.
Thanks so much for all you did, and do; seems your whole channel needs to preserved just for gaming history alone.
Glad this was recommended, I watched your YLOD video but forgot to subscribe, did so this time though.
I was onsite testing these boxes and seen first hand the failures prior to launch.
Love your videos a lot you put a lot of effort in it with multiple music videos and videos love your work❤❤❤
this video is an astonishing piece of work... im so amazed! you guys did very greatly ^_^
Funny that the guy at the Sony press conference said “the next generation doesn’t start until we say it does” and then the machine came out and wild. It was a beast, none of the games looked anywhere near as good as what was on the 360 at that point!
It took him a few years and then started to close and even then I would still argue that all third-party games looked better and played better on Xbox 360 and this is coming from a PlayStation fan who got the very first PlayStation for Christmas in 1995 at 11 years of age!
The three was just awesome! I feel that way about the PS3 also because it does quite a few things as well.. I still have the slim model PS3 as I wasn’t able to get one until 2010?!?!?! But it still had all the user interface features like being able to put music and movies on it, but it was not as “free” as the 360 became? On Sony’s machine you could use all of that music that you put on the hard drive to play custom soundtrack in the background of some of your favorite games like with all Xbox 360 games, unless the developers of the game specifically implemented through the game itself? Gran Turismo five and Gran Turismo six and well…
Gran Turismo has always been my absolute favorite Sony PlayStation game of all time anyways- I still have the first one and the second one in mint condition black label copies! I wish I still had all of 30 some odd pS2’s I had during its lifetime but unfortunately they were Stolen or traded in every time I needed some money…
Exellent video explaining everything, i should retrieve my Slim PS3 with a YLOD and see whats up. sadly some of my old HPs have GPU issues and i don't think I can fix them, but they start working once they get a little warm so it's good enough for me
great video! i really enjoyed hope to see more like this from your channel
8:08 - Absolutely mindblown! 🤯 Have the Arcade Xbox 360 and for the last 15 years I never knew that was a thing!
I sold a serviced Xbox 360 on eBay way back because I had bought an arcade Jasper to replace it for the hdmi port. The shipping address was a base in Iraq. Whenever I see that clip of the soldiers shooting the Xbox I can’t help but think “maybe that was it” lmao
Your work is a insane video games history job!
Watching this on ps3 feels great
The BC PS3 is one of the great wonders of the world!!
Some even call it the PS3 Pro lol.
This is like an episode of Clue. "It was the Packaging Partners in the Interposer with an Underfill". Great research as always RIP Felix. I didn't know you were a scientist until you said so in this episode, but I should have guessed based on how meticulous you are with the details.
You are one of the Top TH-cam channels
this should be on Netflix! :)
I love your videos. excellently done! hope to see more soon
Also Apple was a victim of bad Nvidia GPUs inside of their Macbook Pro Laptops back during 2008 and which is one of the reasons why they never dealt with Nvidia ever again. I am glad that you updated your findings about the 65nm models and admitted that you made a mistake in your data. So if my Slim dies it won't be because of the RSX chip.
As awesome as these videos are(and they are AWESOME) they just make me even more frustrated that a permanent fix for these calls for equipment I can't afford to buy or assemble myself. Maybe one day though...
Great video, man. Love technical deep dives like this that set the record straight and dispel all the longstanding myths and falsehoods being spread around by confidently incorrect know-alls with no actual engineering knowledge, experience or qualifications. Between your videos and Rodrigo Copetti's superb articles I feel like I finally have an accurate understanding of the 360 and PS3 hardware, architecture and history at a much lower level than I could ever have had as a technology enthusiast when the consoles were still flagship products. If I can make one very minor and pedantic critique though; the BBC's initials stand for British Broadcasting *Corporation, not 'Channel' as you credited them as 😁
Haha...I didn't notice that.
lol, there was nothing "transcendent" about AAA gaming on the 360 and PS3. They occasionally had some good games (e.g. Arkham and Dark Souls games) but not anything life changing. That was the gen that first felt incredibly stale to me with the exception of the Wii, and I had both a Wii and PS3!
Great video!
So you were one of those kids that didn't play Halo 😅
love your videos man! hope you keep it up
i remember those years too, like you've said not the best/happiest years in my life. i can much relate with your situation, but instead of it being in the US i was in Ukraine so a playstation 2 at the time costed like almost two montly paychecks.
take care and keep up the excellent work !
Awesome video man!
I still think that half of the Xbox 360 total sales were a direct consequence of people buying a replacement for the RROD.
That's an interesting point.
You are way too far from the thruth. The 360 by the point when the chips prone to RROD were selling (let's say around summer 2008), had around 20M sold units. So even if all of them RROD, that's 20M, and we don't know if every single person had bought 360 again or maybe jumped on PS3. But even if all of them bought another 360, that's 20M. The total sales till the 360 went of the market (2016) were close to 86M. So, 20M is less than 25% of that. And with having in mind that probably some people jumped on the PS3, it's more like 20% of all 360 buyes can be because of the RROD, (which will be 17.2M out of all 86M users). So you are way too far from the thruth and the half of the units, which should be 43M.
@@XtremeBG First, I said "I think" which is a guessed opinion based on some raw numbers. Second, if the total sales of the 360 were about 86+ million units, with 20 million corresponding to bad units, and at most another 20 million replacement units sold again (which can or can not be bad units themselves, lots of people bought bad units to replace their first bad unit), that adds up to 40 million, which is the guessed number I've said before of total sales made of bad units (without counting hardcore gamers that bought more than one console).
Chill and don't overthink it. It's just chit-chat.
@@GuillermoTessi No, its not 40m, cuz the one 20m you would still have them cuz either way they would bought them. Because there was a problem those people bought second unit again. So even if all of them bough second that is 20m extra. Withiut the problem those extra 20m would be there. So its only no more than 20m. Like I said 20-25%, far away from half..