Brian please do more of these videos! Super helpful in making sense of all these different systems. I'm going to be tuning my fd rx7 after I finish assembling and learning these concepts are so beneficial.
Are you suggesting that your setting up a throttle curve based on airflow and the rate of opening is not in direct relationship to the pedal? Or are you simply stating that you’re actually calculating the best curve for an engine versus the trial and error method, or one size fits all method that I’m sure is common? My right foot should be the only thing deciding the opening rate, and imo it’s more important to tune that pedals relation to the TB opening to what suits the driver best which is a combination of the build, the driver, and the use of the car. I’m sure you dial it in bang on, I just think you’re making it seem more complicated then it is. Remember, Tuning is Magic, lol
If a driver slams a pedal open it will be slower to respond on the engine; that is a given. So by taking the idiot meatbag part out of the equation, I'm adjusting the throttle body for #1 feel first, #2 drivability, and #3 engine total response by means of calculated air mass, surface area, and trial by error to create a throttle curve that optimizes the engine. It's important to realize a direct relation from Pedal APP to TB % should not be linear, more logarithmic. Slamming a throttle open is going to slow you down because the surface area is far more critical than the throttle body opening percentage. Don't be a putz; this is simple and exactly what was said in video.
@@RGHTBrainDesignDrive why resort to name calling? If you don’t want to engage with people over the topic then turn comments off so people know you only like to hear yourself speak. You clearly know what you’re talking about and want to share it, so why not simply engage? I 100% understand that it’s not linear, and you did make that clear, the theory came across well. What’s not clear is what you’re doing. You mentioned pressure sensors on either side of the throttle body and harmonics, so are you adding another table to control the throttle curve based off that data so the throttle opening isn’t necessarily the same all the time versus pedal position? Or is it just another consideration when designing the same 2D table we all do?
@@Popes_Projects I'm not name calling in the slightest. That is referring to elimination of human error. This is open for discussion. I'm not going to give away exact specifications on how I'm calibrating a throttle body to optimize it as it's my way of income. I'm more than happy to share the theories I'm following to get there successfully.
@@RGHTBrainDesignDriveso share them. Show tables or modifiers, or just keep insinuating the world ain’t as smart as you. Meanwhile my linear curve dual DBW works perfect.
It's the same concept with a old style Cable Throttle. It's just most people don't get how to control their foot to find that sweet spot. Or more importantly they don't know their engine. You mash on it with a old cable throttle you will have less torque than if you push only 10%. Opening the throttle gradually as the engine needs. Same rules for old cable as DBW only difference a foot is controlling and not programming.
what tools would you say someone at home should invest in to get the MOST out of what this was all about. I have that exact DBW and i have ported 2 rotor engine and have 0 interest in having it hiccup/fall on its face when revved up quickly. I have been storing this subject in the back of my mind for a while now. its interesting stuff and im glad this is a start to a resource.
Yeah, but this method of slightly open is only in the case of failure. The DBW Motor will shut it fully and seal the blade exactly as you'd hope it to...right before the point of stiction.
Hi what happened to your h23a? I have a very similar setup but im destroking to f20b for road racing. Portflow head, JUN 3 cams, sleeved block, custom very lightweight Wiseco pistons 12:5, Crower maxi lite rods.
Hey! Do you have any derivations of stokes equation in relation to DBW tuning or was that comment you made more of a theoretical basis in that "this is the principal that governs DBW tuning"? Would be interested to see someone walk through the equation for two different applications and compare.
I'm educated in Calculus, so that wouldn't be an issue, but the math simply breaks down to be easier than that. In the real world, we can make a few more assumptions and find that a peak velocity tends to land near another easily measurable item which can then be targeted by DBW mapping.
@@RGHTBrainDesignDrive Same here - I was Applied Math major in Uni, so was curious on what that might look like. That being said, I'm also a fan of practical applications over all - any chance you can elaborate on what assumptions to make and determine peak velocity for DBW mapping? My pedal maps do follow a more logarithmic ramp but, I am interested in how to improve them.
@@joao_bridge It's too much in the realm of Intellectual Property at this point, but logarithmic is the right approach here. To simplify, take a look at an early year Aerodynamics school book and start thinking about trends of airflow, pressure ratios, and how velocity all fits into the mix with changing Reynold's number. You're going to see something so simple staring you at the face and have an "Ah hah!" moment that I don't want to take away from you. The more you work for it, the better the reward. The hint is that we will be focusing on generating a throttle opening that targets a certain something in the system. Proud of you, my dude. You got this.
There’s a reason why carbs and basic throttle bodies have idle adjustment. When I rebuild Moto carbs you always need some air flowing around the butterfly or you have no air. Turbo as it spoils up forcing more and more airflow even passed a small plate vs na pulling vacuum . Or on the other end.. massive amounts of fuel and too little air just bogging out and engine. It’s a dance 💃
Brian please do more of these videos! Super helpful in making sense of all these different systems. I'm going to be tuning my fd rx7 after I finish assembling and learning these concepts are so beneficial.
Reach out if you want me to be your professional tuner.
Now I have a better understanding of drive by wire, thanks.
Not a problem. Glad it helped! Reach out if you need any assistance.
@@RGHTBrainDesignDrive will take you on that offer when the time comes.
Are you suggesting that your setting up a throttle curve based on airflow and the rate of opening is not in direct relationship to the pedal? Or are you simply stating that you’re actually calculating the best curve for an engine versus the trial and error method, or one size fits all method that I’m sure is common? My right foot should be the only thing deciding the opening rate, and imo it’s more important to tune that pedals relation to the TB opening to what suits the driver best which is a combination of the build, the driver, and the use of the car.
I’m sure you dial it in bang on, I just think you’re making it seem more complicated then it is. Remember, Tuning is Magic, lol
If a driver slams a pedal open it will be slower to respond on the engine; that is a given. So by taking the idiot meatbag part out of the equation, I'm adjusting the throttle body for #1 feel first, #2 drivability, and #3 engine total response by means of calculated air mass, surface area, and trial by error to create a throttle curve that optimizes the engine.
It's important to realize a direct relation from Pedal APP to TB % should not be linear, more logarithmic. Slamming a throttle open is going to slow you down because the surface area is far more critical than the throttle body opening percentage. Don't be a putz; this is simple and exactly what was said in video.
@@RGHTBrainDesignDrive why resort to name calling? If you don’t want to engage with people over the topic then turn comments off so people know you only like to hear yourself speak. You clearly know what you’re talking about and want to share it, so why not simply engage?
I 100% understand that it’s not linear, and you did make that clear, the theory came across well. What’s not clear is what you’re doing. You mentioned pressure sensors on either side of the throttle body and harmonics, so are you adding another table to control the throttle curve based off that data so the throttle opening isn’t necessarily the same all the time versus pedal position? Or is it just another consideration when designing the same 2D table we all do?
@@Popes_Projects I'm not name calling in the slightest. That is referring to elimination of human error.
This is open for discussion.
I'm not going to give away exact specifications on how I'm calibrating a throttle body to optimize it as it's my way of income. I'm more than happy to share the theories I'm following to get there successfully.
@@RGHTBrainDesignDriveso share them. Show tables or modifiers, or just keep insinuating the world ain’t as smart as you. Meanwhile my linear curve dual DBW works perfect.
Lol someone was arguing with me the other day about this. They said the more air in the motor the more power. Just ignoring air velocity
Let fools be fools.
It's the same concept with a old style Cable Throttle. It's just most people don't get how to control their foot to find that sweet spot. Or more importantly they don't know their engine. You mash on it with a old cable throttle you will have less torque than if you push only 10%. Opening the throttle gradually as the engine needs. Same rules for old cable as DBW only difference a foot is controlling and not programming.
Exactly. Perfectly Said.
what tools would you say someone at home should invest in to get the MOST out of what this was all about. I have that exact DBW and i have ported 2 rotor engine and have 0 interest in having it hiccup/fall on its face when revved up quickly. I have been storing this subject in the back of my mind for a while now. its interesting stuff and im glad this is a start to a resource.
Realistically, it's reach out to an engine calibrator who cares... I'm down to help you out.
Yeah either pin holes drilled in the throttle blade or slightly open
Yeah, but this method of slightly open is only in the case of failure. The DBW Motor will shut it fully and seal the blade exactly as you'd hope it to...right before the point of stiction.
Hi what happened to your h23a? I have a very similar setup but im destroking to f20b for road racing. Portflow head, JUN 3 cams, sleeved block, custom very lightweight Wiseco pistons 12:5, Crower maxi lite rods.
Is this why it may seem the engine is bogging when flogging it on low speed?
Yes, because it would be!
Hey! Do you have any derivations of stokes equation in relation to DBW tuning or was that comment you made more of a theoretical basis in that "this is the principal that governs DBW tuning"? Would be interested to see someone walk through the equation for two different applications and compare.
I'm educated in Calculus, so that wouldn't be an issue, but the math simply breaks down to be easier than that.
In the real world, we can make a few more assumptions and find that a peak velocity tends to land near another easily measurable item which can then be targeted by DBW mapping.
@@RGHTBrainDesignDrive Same here - I was Applied Math major in Uni, so was curious on what that might look like.
That being said, I'm also a fan of practical applications over all - any chance you can elaborate on what assumptions to make and determine peak velocity for DBW mapping? My pedal maps do follow a more logarithmic ramp but, I am interested in how to improve them.
@@joao_bridge It's too much in the realm of Intellectual Property at this point, but logarithmic is the right approach here.
To simplify, take a look at an early year Aerodynamics school book and start thinking about trends of airflow, pressure ratios, and how velocity all fits into the mix with changing Reynold's number.
You're going to see something so simple staring you at the face and have an "Ah hah!" moment that I don't want to take away from you. The more you work for it, the better the reward.
The hint is that we will be focusing on generating a throttle opening that targets a certain something in the system.
Proud of you, my dude. You got this.
Do you offer remote DBW tuning services?
@@BallistekGarage every day. Check out the Facebook, Instagram, or website.
So what would be the fix? Slowly taper the throttle vs pedal , and or put a dampener on in the software ?
Tuning the throttle body to optimize demand vs. air mass.
How would you tune that on a haltech ?
@@mikeregner4719 Pay for tuning services and I'll show you.
@@RGHTBrainDesignDrive
Fair.
There’s a reason why carbs and basic throttle bodies have idle adjustment. When I rebuild Moto carbs you always need some air flowing around the butterfly or you have no air. Turbo as it spoils up forcing more and more airflow even passed a small plate vs na pulling vacuum . Or on the other end.. massive amounts of fuel and too little air just bogging out and engine. It’s a dance 💃
not impressed. you seem to really think highly of yourself
Go elsewhere. Simple as that.