✅ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy113 ⚡ Kickstart your EFI Tuning knowledge. Get 50% OFF your first online course: hpcdmy.co/offery113 🚨Want to learn how to EFI tune a standalone ECU like the Haltech we use for this example? Start with some free lessons right here: hpcdmy.co/EFI101y TIME STAMPS: 0:00 - Introduction 0:50 - Why we need transient enrichment 8:40 - Fuel/VE table must be correct first 11:50 - Transient ignition trim 12:50 - Setup walkthrough 17:55 - Async vs sync enrichment amount 20:45 - Transient throttle control parameters 28:25 - Tuning demonstration 35:30 - Questions
This is THE most underrated car channel on youtube. A lot of the things I've learned here as well as applying this knowledge to tinkering with my own car has allowed me to have a much deeper understanding of how EFI works that has even led me to fix cars on the OEM world that others had given up on for having strange issues. I also can't even name the amount of times where someone like me, who has no dynamometer has cleaned up fuel maps by "tuners" who only care about that wide open throttle run. Getting the car to run much better from cruise to medium throttle and gain a lot in fuel economy.
It's not just "some" tuners that forget about it or don't understand it, it's many! I myself have owned a GTR for the last 13-14 years and it's been through many different tunes and computers and to date it's only been myself and one other tuner who understand the concept of transient enrichment. I've found that many a tuner would either just enrichen the base map to a level where these lean spots get cancelled out but give your horrific economy, or they would just ignore the area of tuning altogether and then spin you a story about why the motor is lethargic every time you press the loud pedal. My best experience with the later was that it was my "twins" and that a "single" would fix it ;-) Having this area tuned by someone who knows what they're doing makes a difference like night and day, especially if you turn the feature on and off while driving and it makes you wonder just how many people out there could be getting so much more out of their pride and joy in every day driving...
Yeah it’s a tough one and It’s one area I simply have no means of precision tuning other than mechanical using an adjustable high rising rate fmu and bleeders and check valves to regulate the fill time/amount and pressure reference to the regulator lol but it’s good enough for an Ecotec v6 but it’s the hardest areas to nail especially with multiple boost/load levels
@@needmoreboost6369 - that sounds quite complex at your end! I'm guessing your can't tie it all to your TPS at your end? At my end I just have it controlled by the TPS / rate of movement and then is corrected according to RPM, temperature and how soon ago the last throttle movement was etc (ie, enrichment decay rate). This is using a rather oldish Haltech PS2000 hehe - I dare say it's all much easier and more "automatic" on newer ECU's....
@@tommis1985 nice! might be old but still you have the abilities! I’ll get there one day! but for now my goal is to find out how far I can push the maf and how fast I can go on a stock ecu it’s a silly goal and with some interesting drawbacks but it’s fun to trick it and roughly make it work! but I’m in the middle of nowhere lol and have access to 20km long straight for a dyno lol
@@needmoreboost6369 - haha 20k long dyno - now we're talking! Sounds like you're having fun though and that's all that matters (along with keeping fuel up to your motor of course ;-) )
Indeed, acceleration enrichment is one aspect where it is much more difficult to get as accurate as one could be for a fueling table. The thing to keep in mind is that engine response must be the main criteria, AFR/lambda is not helping much and could show some delay depending on the oxygen sensor location on the exhaust
Since I’m old school this must be the accelerator pump in a carbureted engine but since it’s fuel injected you can dial it in instead of the diaphragm pump just throwing fuel in.
I tried to get the megasquirt wall wetting algorithm to work for a while. But there is so many variables that I never did get it quite right, reverted back to tps based for now. I was only road tuning so I suspect on a dyno I might have more success.
watch out for smoothing factor on the AFR log / plot. might "eat up" the lean spike. sensor response time and sampling frequency also plays a major role.
In a Chevy type EFI or MAF plus MAP tables, you can easily affect transient fueling. If you can run MAF only and Open Loop, make the MAP/VE table slightly richer. This will provide richer fueling immediately when accelerator is pressed and is very tunable. For racing situations I don’t recommend Closed Loop. Open Loop will also allow you to easily control your deceleration AFR. You should not go for emission type tuning on deceleration, it should only stay close to 1 lambda and just a little lower to cool intake and exhaust while decelerating. This is an often overlooked and little known way to keep boost on tap and keep engine cooler. Awesome video!
Was told that for sequencal injection best to use sync and with batch fire to use async I'm just learning more details about it as struggling to sort table
Throttle tip in enrichment / transient throttle was something I understood in theory but not exactly sure how to tune for. mostly just by seeing the initial afr during initial throttle application, if it leans out too much, then add the value until it reaches a point where its minimized, but i find leaving it a little lean gives better power.. though it may mean that ignition advance during throttle tip in can be optimized further.
Here i am a whole year later to ask another question. Great video as customary HPA team🏆 my question stems from a comment i heard made at an EFI convention talking about tuning accell Enrichment. The person speaking said they like to tune the initial tip-in AFR to the same AFR target as WOT. For example, if WOT was set to 12.2:1 set the initial tip-in to 12.2:1. what are your thoughts on that? Thanks
Understanding it is 1 thing... Having facility to tune/iron it out consistently is another thing... This is where hub dyno with speed/rpm/load holding capability plays important role in tuning the backside of the driveability mapping
TPS get old and lazy and put out dirty signals, sometimes they output dirty signals when new and that's when some RF shielding of the TPS wires are needed. That could also be a reason for the erratic fueling. A few questions... 1. Are manifolds that have the fuel injector firing upstream in the runner better or worse when tuning transient? 2. Would it be proper to tune the overrun areas of the VE table to not inject fuel at all instead of tuning decel transient? Thanks - Pantyeatr1
2 is an easy question. The answer is not really. Having fuel in the cylinder during a decel period helps cool the cylinder down especially after a WOT event.
Andre, excellent demo man. Carburetor tuning is another thing that will really help people understand the tuning. It's far more time consuming and nuanced but a necessity just the same. Tuning of the 4 parameters takes experience but is priceless in EFI tuning. It's based on the accelerator pump and jetting. Carb throttle plate position dictates fuel flow entirely based on resulting airflow. Carbs are brilliant when you think about what they do. They can be tuned to match EFI efficiency at a given ambient pressure.
We're working on a carb course (finally, woo!). Hoping for around mid 2023. It will be a new face presenting it that has the equivalent to Andres experience, just with carbs instead of EFI =) - Taz.
I am confused on what the values in the enrichment rate table do vs values in the enrichment amount table. Are they not both doing the same thing? Or what is the enrichment rate actually doing and how do you look at the rate vs amount table when tuning them?
Is transient throttle used for throttle blipping in idle? Or when in decel and back on pedal? Whenever I accelerate after a decel, it feels jerky and hesitant.
I have dialed in Accel enrich for RPMs above 2k. But lower RPMs no matter what I do the engine still hesitates under almost any amount of throttle jab. The engine is big cam 6.9L LS3. I wonder if its because of the big TB and big displacement ?
I know this isn't really the best place to ask but I'm serving a Facebook jail sentence at the moment lol. But do you guys cover what the "P term" and "D term" terminology is supposed to mean in Holley EFI software? It's under the ignition timing section of the idle tab in my Terminator X software. The owners manual and Holley themselves weren't much help. Surprise....
It looks like terms from a PID close loop control (p for proportionnal to error between current and target, d for derivative). PID is very common when it comes to idle speed close loop control. As idle speed varies with air amount the engine sucks and with ignition angle I assume holley propose to vary ignition angle through a PID close loop in order to keep idle speed at target. However in PID control loops, P and I terms are the most important terms, D term is much less, often left to zero, so if you don't see a I term along with the P and D terms I'm likely wrong (unless holley only allows P and D tweaking, using a fix I but that would be a bit weird)
![Idle Tuning HP Tuners - GM/HP Tuners | Practical Demonstration [GOLD LESSON]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NshcGCEMqNs/mqdefault.jpg)
✅ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy113
⚡ Kickstart your EFI Tuning knowledge. Get 50% OFF your first online course: hpcdmy.co/offery113
🚨Want to learn how to EFI tune a standalone ECU like the Haltech we use for this example? Start with some free lessons right here: hpcdmy.co/EFI101y
TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Introduction
0:50 - Why we need transient enrichment
8:40 - Fuel/VE table must be correct first
11:50 - Transient ignition trim
12:50 - Setup walkthrough
17:55 - Async vs sync enrichment amount
20:45 - Transient throttle control parameters
28:25 - Tuning demonstration
35:30 - Questions
Note even if you're planning to, tune a different brand of ECU, this is the lesson to start with down that path 😎😎
This is THE most underrated car channel on youtube. A lot of the things I've learned here as well as applying this knowledge to tinkering with my own car has allowed me to have a much deeper understanding of how EFI works that has even led me to fix cars on the OEM world that others had given up on for having strange issues. I also can't even name the amount of times where someone like me, who has no dynamometer has cleaned up fuel maps by "tuners" who only care about that wide open throttle run. Getting the car to run much better from cruise to medium throttle and gain a lot in fuel economy.
I personally couldn’t rate them highly enough!
@@DieselRamcharger i never knew that
For real couple million subs by now.
It's not just "some" tuners that forget about it or don't understand it, it's many! I myself have owned a GTR for the last 13-14 years and it's been through many different tunes and computers and to date it's only been myself and one other tuner who understand the concept of transient enrichment. I've found that many a tuner would either just enrichen the base map to a level where these lean spots get cancelled out but give your horrific economy, or they would just ignore the area of tuning altogether and then spin you a story about why the motor is lethargic every time you press the loud pedal. My best experience with the later was that it was my "twins" and that a "single" would fix it ;-)
Having this area tuned by someone who knows what they're doing makes a difference like night and day, especially if you turn the feature on and off while driving and it makes you wonder just how many people out there could be getting so much more out of their pride and joy in every day driving...
Yeah it’s a tough one and It’s one area I simply have no means of precision tuning other than mechanical using an adjustable high rising rate fmu and bleeders and check valves to regulate the fill time/amount and pressure reference to the regulator lol but it’s good enough for an Ecotec v6 but it’s the hardest areas to nail especially with multiple boost/load levels
@@needmoreboost6369 - that sounds quite complex at your end! I'm guessing your can't tie it all to your TPS at your end?
At my end I just have it controlled by the TPS / rate of movement and then is corrected according to RPM, temperature and how soon ago the last throttle movement was etc (ie, enrichment decay rate). This is using a rather oldish Haltech PS2000 hehe - I dare say it's all much easier and more "automatic" on newer ECU's....
@@tommis1985 nice! might be old but still you have the abilities! I’ll get there one day! but for now my goal is to find out how far I can push the maf and how fast I can go on a stock ecu it’s a silly goal and with some interesting drawbacks but it’s fun to trick it and roughly make it work! but I’m in the middle of nowhere lol and have access to 20km long straight for a dyno lol
@@needmoreboost6369 - haha 20k long dyno - now we're talking! Sounds like you're having fun though and that's all that matters (along with keeping fuel up to your motor of course ;-) )
@@tommis1985 lot’s of fuel pumps,I’m using my injectors as pressure cleaner’s for the intake valve’s lol
Indeed, acceleration enrichment is one aspect where it is much more difficult to get as accurate as one could be for a fueling table.
The thing to keep in mind is that engine response must be the main criteria, AFR/lambda is not helping much and could show some delay depending on the oxygen sensor location on the exhaust
Since I’m old school this must be the accelerator pump in a carbureted engine but since it’s fuel injected you can dial it in instead of the diaphragm pump just throwing fuel in.
Exactly what I always thought
I tried to get the megasquirt wall wetting algorithm to work for a while. But there is so many variables that I never did get it quite right, reverted back to tps based for now. I was only road tuning so I suspect on a dyno I might have more success.
watch out for smoothing factor on the AFR log / plot. might "eat up" the lean spike. sensor response time and sampling frequency also plays a major role.
The holley xp ultra 850dp has awesome transient enrichment.
In a Chevy type EFI or MAF plus MAP tables, you can easily affect transient fueling. If you can run MAF only and Open Loop, make the MAP/VE table slightly richer. This will provide richer fueling immediately when accelerator is pressed and is very tunable. For racing situations I don’t recommend Closed Loop. Open Loop will also allow you to easily control your deceleration AFR. You should not go for emission type tuning on deceleration, it should only stay close to 1 lambda and just a little lower to cool intake and exhaust while decelerating. This is an often overlooked and little known way to keep boost on tap and keep engine cooler. Awesome video!
This video is one of the most important I've ever seen, thank you!
Getting this correct on my Sunny GTi-R with ITBs was a real pain
Was told that for sequencal injection best to use sync and with batch fire to use async I'm just learning more details about it as struggling to sort table
Holy shit, I'm dealing with this now on my viper and the Tuner is THE Tuner for vipers.
Throttle tip in enrichment / transient throttle was something I understood in theory but not exactly sure how to tune for. mostly just by seeing the initial afr during initial throttle application, if it leans out too much, then add the value until it reaches a point where its minimized, but i find leaving it a little lean gives better power.. though it may mean that ignition advance during throttle tip in can be optimized further.
Thanks again for your time
Here i am a whole year later to ask another question. Great video as customary HPA team🏆 my question stems from a comment i heard made at an EFI convention talking about tuning accell Enrichment. The person speaking said they like to tune the initial tip-in AFR to the same AFR target as WOT. For example, if WOT was set to 12.2:1 set the initial tip-in to 12.2:1. what are your thoughts on that? Thanks
Awesome vid - does this apply still for direct injection engines?
Understanding it is 1 thing...
Having facility to tune/iron it out consistently is another thing...
This is where hub dyno with speed/rpm/load holding capability plays important role in tuning the backside of the driveability mapping
This was the most timely session. Will be trying some adjustments
TPS get old and lazy and put out dirty signals, sometimes they output dirty signals when new and that's when some RF shielding of the TPS wires are needed. That could also be a reason for the erratic fueling.
A few questions...
1. Are manifolds that have the fuel injector firing upstream in the runner better or worse when tuning transient?
2. Would it be proper to tune the overrun areas of the VE table to not inject fuel at all instead of tuning decel transient? Thanks - Pantyeatr1
2 is an easy question. The answer is not really. Having fuel in the cylinder during a decel period helps cool the cylinder down especially after a WOT event.
@@kinslayergaming3159 like just enough fuel to calm the crackling or burble? 🤔
As always, excellent info
thanks for everything you guys do…
How do we put calipers on this fuel film?
Andre, excellent demo man. Carburetor tuning is another thing that will really help people understand the tuning. It's far more time consuming and nuanced but a necessity just the same. Tuning of the 4 parameters takes experience but is priceless in EFI tuning.
It's based on the accelerator pump and jetting. Carb throttle plate position dictates fuel flow entirely based on resulting airflow. Carbs are brilliant when you think about what they do. They can be tuned to match EFI efficiency at a given ambient pressure.
We're working on a carb course (finally, woo!). Hoping for around mid 2023. It will be a new face presenting it that has the equivalent to Andres experience, just with carbs instead of EFI =) - Taz.
@@hpa101 Brilliant Taz, I've been doing carbs for decades so it really does wonders when I'm tuning an ECU. Us Dinosaurs are a dying breed though lol.
I am confused on what the values in the enrichment rate table do vs values in the enrichment amount table. Are they not both doing the same thing? Or what is the enrichment rate actually doing and how do you look at the rate vs amount table when tuning them?
Great Video, thanks a lot! Is the Nissan SR20 an engine where you would activate async enrichment?
How is it with direct injection, just curious
Outstanding content ... Thank You for sharing .. cheers :)
Glad you enjoyed it Tim! Appreciate the support - Taz.
Is transient throttle used for throttle blipping in idle? Or when in decel and back on pedal? Whenever I accelerate after a decel, it feels jerky and hesitant.
I have dialed in Accel enrich for RPMs above 2k. But lower RPMs no matter what I do the engine still hesitates under almost any amount of throttle jab. The engine is big cam 6.9L LS3. I wonder if its because of the big TB and big displacement ?
I would try adjusting the fuel injector phasing/angle if the software allows it. Adjusting that made a difference on my car at low RPM.
Solid video
Cheers mate - Taz.
if the enrich amount is 50 and the sync amount is 100 at a specific cell you will get 100% of 50 is this true
I know this isn't really the best place to ask but I'm serving a Facebook jail sentence at the moment lol. But do you guys cover what the "P term" and "D term" terminology is supposed to mean in Holley EFI software? It's under the ignition timing section of the idle tab in my Terminator X software. The owners manual and Holley themselves weren't much help. Surprise....
It looks like terms from a PID close loop control (p for proportionnal to error between current and target, d for derivative). PID is very common when it comes to idle speed close loop control. As idle speed varies with air amount the engine sucks and with ignition angle I assume holley propose to vary ignition angle through a PID close loop in order to keep idle speed at target.
However in PID control loops, P and I terms are the most important terms, D term is much less, often left to zero, so if you don't see a I term along with the P and D terms I'm likely wrong (unless holley only allows P and D tweaking, using a fix I but that would be a bit weird)
👍🤙