LS/LSX cam swap TUNING the TRUTH DBC vs DBW throttle body
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2018
- The DBC throttle body requires slight manual opening of the throttle blade to introduce bypass air in order to “Help” the IAC maintain and control idle. Yes it’s literally this simple sort of...
Part 1 of setting the bypass air/IAC; once you have stable idle you must tune your VE and MAF tables to properly tune the engine. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I am glad you figure it out and now i know all about how you do the swap thanks
265chevy Tuning is far more complicated than it should be. It’s far more work to tune a computer than an old school engine. Good luck on your build! 👍
I already knew most of this but still appreciated the video and explanation haha. There's a lot of Internet geniuses out there that have no practical experience just repeating bullshit like an infomercial
Trashman I’m going back to my known good tune that starts, idles at 800 rpm, revs clean and recovers idle without diving; then start the 24 step process to tune the VE and MAF. Thanks for watching and the feedback I appreciate it! Good luck keep me updated! JD
I feel your pain. People can be really rude when it comes to trying to figure out how to do things that are known to others. Thank you for the video. I’m subscribing now.
Relearned something from long ago. Just stuff people don't know or understand because they don't do it. All it is is running off old school tech with a senser omg the world's ending. Glad to have it out there anyway for others.
Thank you for this. I ve been an electronics guy for a long time. They have their place. It doesnt make it "better". The cable system is tested and true and this perception that DBW is "better" is ridiculous. All that is really gained is MORE POINTS OF FAILURE LOL.
Thank you for watching and the feedback I appreciate it! I couldn’t agree more! JD
Late to the party, I love the video. Is a DBW ideal for removing the MAF and running a MAP only tune (for SC/TC) setups?
I do not recommend running a DBW throttle body with any kind of boosted application. The electric motor controlling the throttle blade is known to fail and not be able to control the pressure. DBC only in my book.
Speed Density works great with Boost!!!
im doing a swap on my own,its a 05 blazer which has a cable,i just figured i would leave the cable since im a big dude with broad shoulders and its a pain getting down under the dash.guess i will look and see how much room i have,plus this,i am having a new harness made and im not going with a cam for a while until i work the bugs out,see how hot it runs,and even then it would be just a stage 1.which isnt much,you said as long as its not too big of a cam,uhhh damn which route should i go sir ? cable or wire ? i will check back for reply thanks.
onewheelup I recommend the cable setup especially if you already have it. If you already had the DBW setup then I’d use it unless you were planning boost, DBW tends to not like having boost pushing on the throttle blade. Imho
Good luck on your build! JD
Damm that is a awesome hack by flipping the dam screw. I can't screw mine anymore atm and was debating on drilling the hole bigger. Thanks!
Be careful opening the throttle blade to far it can make the IAC not work correctly. Sometimes it’s required to add a small hole in the blade to add none metered idle air. JD
@@HeadFlowInc I've got a small hole already and I just got my tune back from mailordertuner.com he told me to screw it in 1.5 times but I ran outta adjustment at 1 and it didn't do anything for idle but it screams with throttle. I ordered a hp tuners so he could remote tune but in the meantime I figured I'd try this out.
Maybe that explains the 500-600 idle air correction graph steps I was seeing on the VCM scanner. Guess I’ll turn it in a turn or 2 and find out. No need to flip the screw around, a T15 bit with 1/4 wrench or 1/4 drive T15 socket fits in there with the snorkel removed.
Busa0069 Yes, you’ll have to dial it in to see what works best. Normally they want IAC count between 40-60, my combo will not recover idle set like that. At idle I see 0-1 count IAC, it’s the only way the recover idle that I’ve found, in my application. JD
Great video sir! Changing location of the IDLE screw from bottom to top was GENIUS! Why didnt they do that in the assembly plants? I have a big cam and it idles at 800 but stalls, I need to raise it to 1000. Thanks for the video...
Thanks for watching! You have to go way back in online forums to find information on tuning tricks for the DBC throttle bodies. Because the IAC has a limited area it works best controlling bypass air to help establish idle is needed.
It’s all a balance of getting the IAC count happy and ending up with the idle rpm you want. JD
I like this guy👍👍
Just like when I used the K series Honda forums, most LS forums are useless when it comes to specific tech that MATTERS like this does. Good on you for posting this. Loved this fix.
Exactly! I found information on the old LT1 forums and obs Chevy truck forums on adding bypass air to help the IAC with idle. I was definitely disappointed and frustrated with everyone regurgitating the steps for tuning DBW throttle bodies!
Thanks again for the feedback! JD
CIA must of swooped in
This very much loved thanks alot💯
HF, do you have a website? This is regards to getting intake manifold/throttle body porting.
Thx
MJ
mike johnson Don’t have a website, which intake and throttle body are you wanting to use?
Great, informative video!!!
Thanks, Good luck on your project!
Well on the truck the motor came out of had cruise control that could electronically i mean im pretty sure you could not make it do what you want but it was there
Good to know...
Soooo what did you do with the TPS being off? Big cam keep sensor on point you would drill the bypass whole larger
Yep, slightly enlarged the bypass air hole in the throttle blade then dialed in the IAC count. I feel there was something off with the intake manifold, maybe an underneath vacuum leak because the best IAC count it liked was 0-2 not the 40-60 recommended. JD
On the fox body mustang i turn open the throttle blades and and turn down the throttle body sensor by oval the bolt holes..so the tming will change.
Amazing thank you so much!
i have a 5.3 swap can i leave the drive by wire on and rework the harness?
Gary Withrow I’m confused, will you be running the DBW or DBC throttle body?
The harness and the tune need to match the throttle body you choose. Possibly the ECU as well
Thanks. Now I can set my idle
Glad I could help
Thank you much needed
Thank you for the feedback and for watching I hope you subscribe! JD
I haven't looked yet, but I hear tell that the Sloppy mechanics wiki has some tunes for DBC.
dragbikedemon Be very cautious using any tunes from the Sloppy tune repository, I’ve noticed they have a tendency to detonate so run good fuel. Also, not many NA, DBC, Pump gas, HPT tunes on there. I can check again maybe he added some not sure. Thanks for the feedback! 👍
Hey great video, is it the same concept with a stock cam?
Stock cam should pull enough vacuum you would never need more unmetered bypass air. The issue is when you put a camshaft in with a lower manifold vacuum you have to help the IAC. JD
@@HeadFlowInc so do you know what would be given me the po122 code?
Sorry I didn’t see your question, your code indicates low voltage/signal from the TPS sensor to the ECU. Check all the pins in the connector and if needed try a different TPS sensor. JD
im doing an ls swap in a k10 and made the mistake of touching that screw . my buddy said i should not have messed with it as im completely stock it changed the tps voltage . so now i have to check a stock tps voltage throttle and reset screw by voltage . i stumbled across a video that said when your tps voltage hits 5 volts you will blow head gaskets . just throwing that out there as a warning from some ones bad luck .
Inlarging the hole in the butterfly does the same thing ?? -- Big cam with regular carb same out come ?? --- peace
Big Miff Grows Yes sir, but if you drill too much then your sol. Using the screw is fully adjustable and can go back Factory if needed. 👍
@@HeadFlowInc yeah I made that mistake but fortunately I had some aluminum brazing rods lying around covered up the hole then re-drilled to a smaller size.
Hello Sir. Did you ever link the second video for the TPS and the IAC.... By the way Great video... Very helpful
When tuning the IAC using HP Tuners they want the count between 40-60. For the IAC to function properly, it Hass to be in that range at the idle that you want so it’s a balancing act between how much unmetered bypass air the engine can see with the little hole in the blade.
I was asking because I replaced the IAC for a new one and it started to rev really high and acting up.... So I replaced it with the old one the it went back to normal.. is there a procedure or anything for a New IAC
Thought there was a part 2???? Did it happen just not uploaded? 😢
Yep, just like the idle screw on a carb. Pretty much every cable actuated throttle body made has one somewhere on it brother. Even the older Hondas. Absolutely zero sarcasm intended Jeff but i really thought this was just a given that everyone already knew about. If I would have known you didnt know about the idle adjustment screw back when you were having all those issues then I would have said something. I'm truly sorry brother.😔 But on the flip side, this is why I love my DBW vehicles so much. I even managed to talk ray into just letting me do DBW on the Nova.😉
Bad Luck Garage The point is “All” the How to tune your LS after cam swap focus only on DBW. 🤷♂️. How would anyone know how to tune the start and idle with a DBC setup? Because they can’t tune it following the TH-cam Experts who got butt hurt when I pointed out they’re video doesn’t work with DBC. Clearly they didn’t know either... 🤔
Feel free to do a search on tuning DBC, little to nothing available. 🤷♂️
I gotcha brother. I figured it was something like that by the way you were talking in the video. You sounded aggravated.😔
It seems to me that the cable driven throttle body is basically a carburetor throttle plate without the mechanical fuel metering system. And that screw on the throttle body is basically a curb idle screw on a carb and all you have to do is tune the computer to match the changes you made to the screw.
Kind of, but the IAC valve can only handle so much air flow and you have to balance all the bypass air with the IAC to get it in an area it’s happy in. There’s a lot more involved when tuning this balance of air flow with HP Tuners than most expect.
Thanks for watching and the feedback I appreciate it! JD
i have not been on ls1 tech or performance trucks . net for around or over 10 years now, there is so much to talk about on this, we would need some lawn chairs and a cooler full of ice cold beer, throttle body adjustment screw, IAC, and believe me or not several types of PCV valves to help control the amount of air flow from cold start to operating temp, so that when you turn the key the motor will start and idle with out having to play with the throttle pedal, there is so much i can share with you about this, i cannot do it typing out several pages for a book on the web.
Something changed immensely after switching back to a regular truck intake and installing the Turbo and Holley Terminator X.
I left the throttle body as I had it set/modified with the HPT; the engine started and has run perfectly ever since. Previously I enlarged the hole in the throttle blade slightly and set the blade opening so it ran best on the old setup. We’re thinking either the tune was way off some where, the Dorman truck intake had a bad air leak or something else caused all my HPT tuning issues with idle recovery after reviving. JD
@@HeadFlowInc i wish i was around before you enlarged the hole in the throttle body, if you had the PCV valve that was nothing more then a cap with a pin hole in it, we could have upgraded to the PCV valve with the cross plate and tapered shaft to allow more air flow while keeping your throttle body at 0% to 2% open.
It may be back to the factory setting, I just can’t remember where it ended up after enlarging the hole. The Holley must like it, the start, idle, recovery is very stable now. Also my Hot idle is 700 rpms now.
You could also theoretically fine tune your idle by opening up the idle bypass hole in the throttle plate. Just a thought..
Yes your exactly right, people do enlarge the bypass hole in the throttle blade which is a great method. Thanks for watching and the feedback I appreciate it! JD
@@HeadFlowInc That's what I did.
I wanting to replace my 2003 5.3 engine with a lower mileage one. Mine is drive by wire and I’m looking at a 2002 that is drive by cable. Would I be able to swap intakes and use my stock harness and my ecu? Or what??? Anyone know?
Check the throttle body mounting bolts/studs. It’ll either be a 3 bolt or 4 bolt, if both engines have the same your good. Or you can put your old intake/TB on the new engine. JD
@@HeadFlowInc so then do you think I can use my stock harness? it comes with ecu but will I be able to use my stock one? I have a 2003 Silverado. The engine I’m looking at is out of a 2002 sierra
You should post your tune file, and log. See if you can get anyone to help you that way. It's hard to just take shots in the dark without looking at the data to see what exactly is going on with it. Also, a wide band will make your life so much easier. If you don't have one grab one.
xz empt I’m hoping Santa 🎅 will bring me an AEM wide band! 😉
I’m not 100% sure how to post my tune file, I’ll have to look it up. Thanks for the tips I appreciate the help! 👍👍👍
Too many kids on internet that have no idea . OGs rule.
Thanks for watching and the feedback I appreciate it! Stay tuned I hope you subscribed JD
Where's the follow up video??
Charles Clemons I guess I’m confused, it’s been a while since I’ve watched this video, are you interested in the amount of throttle blade bypass air when using the DBC throttle body?
@@HeadFlowInc you mentioned that you were going to do a follow-up video that shows you tuning with the cable throttle body.
Some of the 04-08 gm vans and trucks have drive by cable yet they have blue and green connector ecm instead of red and blue connectors. I like the drive by wire yet they are a pain in the rear to tune.
Yeltom Automotive As much fun as this DBC has been, I can’t wait to try to tune a DBW. 🙄😳. Learning one step at a time! 👍
The big diff between the two in my opinion is the DBW is lightening fast throttle response with way less travel on the pedal. My truck is DBW 408 ci 4l80e 4.10 rear gear and she jumps out the hole like a ground hog 🏃 from water. I've broken shocks and sway bar links three times.
Yeltom Automotive Sounds awesome! 😎
Do u have a tac module
Dylan Turner No tach module needed if your tach comes with the adjustment for 4cyl, 6 cyl, and 8 cylinders. Set the tach to 4cyl 👍
@@HeadFlowInc I think he meant TAC module as in throttle actuator control. On the trucks from 03 to 06 they had DBW but it still had the old slow ecm with an auxillary module on the bulkhead by the brake booster that ran the TB exclusively. In 07 when the new GMT900 body style came about the Gen 4 motors had the smaller faster ECU with integrated throttle control.
I have a cam 5.3 that want rev or it will rev very very little cause to much it cuts off
It sounds like VAT’s are enabled in the tune
It idles but no rev
I sense frustration...lol
pmoore4321 Frustrated/animated for sure, this has been a huge challenge. 😳 I had my limit of people not knowing the difference between the throttle bodies and wanted to argue about it. They can try for ever to tune a DBC purely through the computer and waste tons of time.
I'm in the same boat, except I'm DBW. My cam has a lot of overlap and the transition from idle to even the slightest roll causes a stall. I can flash a tune from the repository and it will work fairly well. I've tried changing one thing at a time and just can't figure out which parameter works the magic. I guess I'll get it sooner or later. About to give up and go straight to a tuner.
pmoore4321 See if you can find a step by step guide to tuning, it may be a book. It’s almost impossible to tune by chance, mostly because a change to one table can affect other parameters. Did you know, you have to tune the VE table and MAF table before other tuning will be affective. each engine combo is slightly different.
Many of the free tunes from Sloppy Mechanics don’t work genetically and many times detonate. Be careful. Also, when your comparing tunes make sure all the engine, injectors, intake, Cam etc match. I haven’t found any matches unfortunately 👎
pmoore4321 Your DBW throttle body has inputs to add the air you need to tune the start, idle, Rev and return to idle without stalling. I feel for ya, there’s tons of videos and info for the DBW. Try the HPT forum, they have a step by step complete with pictures.
Man you’re hilarious I hope the CIA Didn’t come kick your door in after you uploaded this video
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My 2005 Dakota has a mechanical throttle lol
@13:18 😂😂😂😂💀
Sho_Off_AutoMotives It’s amazing how many people have no idea how to tune, but post videos on how to tune.
DBC has to use by-pass air set with the throttle screw. Don’t hear this!
Non-electronic automatic transmission you need to provide either a PRNDL or P/N input to the ECU, without one of these you won’t get the Adaptive Idle tables. Don’t hear this!
All the videos on TH-cam on how to tune idle after cam swap are oriented towards Drive by Wire throttle bodies. DBW
@@HeadFlowInc Good thing it's possible... I had a big bloc in my Camaro.. Just got me a 5.7ls aluminum bloc with a nnbs tbss intake for my 85 regal...now Im just soakin up this ls knowledge.
2:14 There's a lot of people that have no common sense. They just memorize theory of operation.
The IAC IS NOT A SENSOR. This is valve actuated by stepper motor that’s controlled by the PCM
Yes I’m aware, but what you may not know, the IAC can only control/supply a fixed amount of bypass air to stabilize the idle. Depending on engine vacuum and camshaft overlap etc you have to add unmetered bypass air to help the IAC do it’s job.
DBC adjust throttle blade and/or modify hole/s in the throttle blade.
DBW Adjust the tune via the electric throttle control to help add unmetered air. JD
Just drill the bypass hole out a little bigger.
Yes, that’s what I ended up doing!
WTF........did just happened.
Drill the hole in the blade bigger. I've done that way back, little motor with big duration camshaft
That’s exactly what I ended up doing! It took me a long time to figure it out, I was being hard headed because my cam isn’t very big and I couldn’t see why it was needed.
Did my g20 6.0 swap drive by cable. I stayed stock used a 2003 Savanah......easiest had to do some wiring to get accessories but no screwing with pedals tcm .......I'd rather concentrate on accessories with limited knowledge DBW seems way too much customization.
At the time of this video I was very frustrated with trying to tune the Start, idle and recovery after revving I was ready to sell it! I’m still not 100% sure why my 4.8 w/ 216/220 cam caused all these problems! In hindsight, I think there must have been an issue with the Dorman intake. JD
@@HeadFlowInc so yrs later? How reliable has it been? What if any issues?
Jeesh!! You’d think 🤔 you were talking to people who barley knew how to even change oil/filter! Lmao 🤣!! Nice 👍 channel though.
Frustrated at the point I made this video. Any person new to the tuning aspect of these LS engines will appreciate the honesty. Thanks for watching and the feedback! JD
LOL
U have a facebook
Yeah
Just drill the hole bigger.
That’s exactly what I ended up having to do! 👍👍
Go on sloppy mechanics matt has tuned tons of them.
Yeltom Automotive Unfortunately he hasn’t shared many DBC, Pump gas, HPT tunes. 🤔. I’ve been to the tune cabinet many times.
Oh. I never went on the page just watched a ton of his vids.
Yeltom Automotive If you go to the Sloppy Facebook page there’s a link to the tune cabinet. 👍
Unfortunately you have alot of douche bag keyboard tuners in these forums you 1: comment without an intention to help you 2: never give a straight answer when they do 3: think that thier way is the only way. I was called a dumbass newby because I adjusted my idle through the screw and drilling a hole, I was thinking the same thing you were that the IAC can only do so much.
martinez1701a I’m still trying to figure out how to get a steady idle around 700-750 rpm. My tune s way off still 🤔
Because they want tuning money
Utah county Picazo's page I agree 👍
You mentioned about wasting time but you went on with a slow draw saying the same thing over and over. Now that's a real waste of time. Trust me bro I thank you for the information but talking all about where you've been and what you've done. That's cool with me but I know how other people are and you made either stay and make fun of you or they simply left.
It’s the 17,000 views that matters the most to TH-cam. 👍
Goddammit i just wasted 14mins of my life
R Johnson If you New the BS we went through trying to tune the idle on my DBC setup, trying to follow the “Idle Tuning” guides on line you’d understand. The DBW adds bypass air using the tune; the Cable version can’t unless you add it.
Now we’ve found out, because I have a TH400 the ecu doesn’t know PRNDL, so I don’t have the Adaptive Tables to restore idle after revving.🤬🤬🤬. I have a decent tune but it doesn’t want to return to idle after I rev the engine!
You’d be surprised how many “Internet Experts” who claim to be Tuners didn’t know/understand the tunes are different between DBC and DBW throttle bodies. This was my point! 😉👍. Merry Christmas Robert! 🎄
HeadFlowInc merry Christmas! this is good information. I assumed the video showed the DBW TB in motion. I am building combo using DBW using a PSI wiring LS harness. Thanks for the feedback!