The Postmodern Horror of TikTok's Encanto Discourse
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มี.ค. 2022
- Encanto... a great Disney movie with great themes. But a terrible discourse.
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#gay #encanto #disney - บันเทิง
FLASHING LIGHTS WARNING: 13:40-13:54
I really like this video thank you your research, nuance, and bisexual lighting
No they attacked a 13 y/o because there a bunch of losers, bullys and probably biggets
I enjoy this. If you would do on hard mode on are they gay *love the videos* use mr mistoffelees and rum rum tugger from CATS. There is something there 😉
I wonder if you will talk about Turning Red next. The new Pixar movie cause I saw some LGBTQ interpretations you can read in the movie. Also this film is the first time I've seen it openly taking puberty and some issues teenagers go through. Nevermind about the dumb controversies it got from conservatives saying puberty is inappropriate 🤣.
Also FLASH WARNING for 30:15-30:27 ! It's less severe than at the 13:40-13:54 (which messed me up pretty bad bc I didn't see this before watching), but its worth noting too!
Btw, I really liked the style of this video! The lecture theme with the bisexual lighting, and the script written on the chalkboard, was such a fun idea and such a pleasure to watch! Really great work! :)
Edit to add: If possible at all, @AreTheyGay , can you try and add captions to your videos? As a disabled subscriber, its been tough to watch sometimes because of issues with audio processing and I can't recommend these videos to my similarly disabled friends.
One time I commented "You guys realize Latinos can be gay too right?" I was TORN TO PIECES
What happened?
@@shroederthatboy.4691 They were torn to pieces
RIP
@@Anonymous_Gambito *likes comment angrily.*
Lmfao wtf is wrong with people
I don’t know how ppl don’t acknowledge that homophobia ALSO has to do with generational trauma.
@Demon Slayer the trauma of one person passing homophobia down to their kids, etc.
Ik Euphoria is a hot button topic, not gonna go into how good/bad it is, that’s your opinion, but if you’ve seen the show I think it does a good job showing how the internalized homophobia of a father, gets passed down into the homophobia of a son. So yes, it’s cultural, but it’s also about the fear and hatred instilled from generations of homophobia.
It can even trickle down into your self-worth like it does with mirabelle
T H I S
Yeah if someone says this they're either not latinoamerican or not lgbtq
nate n cal jacobs
The problem is culture here
Not just queer headcanon was seen as problematic. There are those who got bashed for reading Bruno as non-neurotypical. Which 1) seems like it wasn't even a headcanon but is actually canon, according to interviews with the creators and 2) non-neurotypical Latino exists. God, non-neurotypical queer latino DOES exist!
Bruno is even described as "OCD" in the script.
Can confirm, I’m a neurodivergent queer Latino man lmao
To add onto another comment that went "being LGBTQ+ is also a reason of generational trauma", people seem to forget that also being neurodivergent 99% of the time ends up with being traumatised.
@@sonicbackrooms897 cheers!
@@jasonxavier3744 cheers 🕺🏽
" I'm 13 white and autistic is it wrong to imagine gay"
" So for some backstory, my father was a wanted criminal"
O_o how are they related????
what
*grandfather
The ‘do we have to sexualise’ comment really got to me - sexuality is not inherently about sex. That might seem like an oxymoron but think about it, it reinforces the idea that ‘children are too young’ to be ‘exposed’ to gayness. That being gay is inherently nsfw. This never happens with straightness. We don’t shelter children from sexuality, we shelter them from lgbt identities. Suggesting we are wrong and inappropriate and deviant.
Same! And they always use the same arguments as the more overtly homophobic.
Like "I don't see any evidence of gay or the creators didn't make them overtly gay therefore gays don't exist". Or "Corporations would never make a gay person but if some creators/writers tried to sneak in gays through subtext than thats queerphobic and therefore doesn't count because its not "gay enough" "
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if all you see when you see two men or two women being romantic and affectionate is graphic gay sex, that sounds like a you problem. It is incredibly common to see straight people be affectionate with one another and I think most people would agree that picturing graphic mental images of them having sex would be incredibly weird, yet this is treated as almost the default reaction to same sex affection. I remember once sharing some art of two male OCs from an MMO being affectionate and how I'd love to see more of that in the game and I literally had a few people immediately jump to gay sex not belonging in the game and it's like bro, it's literally just two men holding each other, there was no nudity, there was no visible sexual energy of any kind it was just about as sexlessly romantic as any straight couple you might see in most children's media, if all you see when looking at an image like that is actual gay sex, I really don't know what to tell you. Same thing goes for trans people too, people fixate on their bodies when it's none of their business and it's very much not normal to start pondering the genitals of random cishet people or asking them questions about their genitals. Is it appropriate to ask a random woman if she shaves down there? or ask a man if he's been circumcised? why do you think it's in any way appropriate or normal to ask a trans person about their genitals?
Sexuality is just a fucked term, it makes it easy for ignorant people to assume its all about sex when it really isn’t
i've seen people try to use the "then why is it called homoSEXUAL then?!" argument, and it always annoys me so much that they just conveniently ignore the word Heterosexual. being straight is also a sexuality, just not an oppressed sexuality. Thinking being lgbt is inherently sexual completely ignores asexuals and romantic attraction as a whole, and it only serves to demonise those have already had to deal with prejudice. I've never understood why people have the audacity to see being gay as sexual and then call US the perverts.
besides i'll start considering their arguments when they stop putting sex jokes on baby clothes just sayin-
-sincerely, an annoyed queer
@@erenender66 Asexuality itself is not a LGBT identity. You can be asexual & straight.
as a hispanic person i don't understand the fuzz. generational trauma isn't a "unique" experience from Colombia, it concerns almost the entire world (see: the new movie Red), and especially harms those children who struggle to live up to their family's expectations, so most LGBTQ kids fall into that category. and i hate that tiktok and youtube and twitter people act as if ethnicity and queerness are incompatible with eachother. both things affects us, y'all.
Germany has a proverb about taking 5 generations to wash blood from soil, I very much hope my children will have minimal amounts of trauma to carry on while building a better world from whatever foundation I can contribute.
@will I agree completely I growed up In a strictly Christian family and when I first came out only my dad and brother excepted me. My mom wanted to trow me out but my dad didn't let her. A lot of my friends at my school didn't believe me when I came out and they still don't all because I am Christian
The funny thing is that the people complaining about the "ethnic appropiation" or whatever, are NEVER part of that ethnicity. They are americans that feel guilty and make a fuzz about it when no one within the ethnic group actually cares in the slightest. I'm latino, from Argentina, and I NEVER, I reapeat NEVER IN MY WHOLE LIFE heard someone from my country complaining about Argentinian or latin portrayal in american media. So, chill out, don't get offended for other people, I assure you no one on this side cares about this stuff.
as a Polish queer person, can confirm generational trauma is a thing that exists even when ur white! tho I am slavic white so that's like slightly different than american white I guess? idk it's confusing
So true. Also people that complain about people talking about certain aspects and ignoring all the other… Like, we can’t analyse everything all at once (especially on TWITTER lmao it’s not a scientific journal, just some random short thoughts of people around the world). Also it would be a little weird for white people to super actively discuss latinos experience when those people themselves can be much better judges and voices on this. Disney intentionally makes movies that can be relatable to all sorts of people, so it CAN be perceived in different ways by different people, and yes, they sometimes bring it to twitter
For me, seeing the “Isabella is a lesbian” theories made me happy not because I am queer, but because my Colombian American cousin is a lesbian. It feels like most queer people have gotten queer representation from a white perspective, and that POC have to settle for that. My cousin can’t have a character that’s both queer and Latina, only ever queer OR Latina, but here, she can see both her culture, her ethnicity, and her sexuality! This is where the intersectionality is truly important. Because it’s not fair to have only one or the other. With this kind of stuff, people with multiple identities can be seen, and have the representation that fits them properly.
Except she isn't, nor is coded as such
@@gbdeck200 I’m not saying she is, I’m saying that the head canons are nice.
@@gbdeck200 did you watch the video
I like to write gay stories but typically leave out "person looked liked this" because I have my type in looks but a lot of it is personality and I like people to be able use their imagination and make their own person. For example, I mostly like blondes so that's what I always imagine but I once loosely (because I don't have that experience) wrote a Hispanic love interest
@@gbdeck200 lesbians don't owe you accuracy to stereotypes and the movie isn't about sexuality or romantic relationships, so you legitimately do not have enough context to say for certain that she isn't a lesbian. We already know from the written story that she didn't love the man she was slated to marry, so who's to say she loves men at all?
People do realize that the generational trauma shown in Encanto CAN, and often does irl, go hand in hand with things like homophobia and ableism, right? I'm queer and latino and I have tons of examples in my family. Being queer and/or ND isn't a white people thing. The movie may not be about those, but making HCs and different interpretations about it is def not erasing latino culture.
Fr!
that's why i feel like Bruno could be queer in some way.
I've had someone say "Stop fetishizing my latino culture" to me, A gay Puerto Rican/Mexican, after I said "We should encourage and celebrate people enterpreting Encanto and any other media in various ways". I'm disturbed by how many people are ready to put on their homophobia/transphobia shirt any chance they get.
I mean, aren't you kinda doing that though
@@kaizen2840 how?
The idea of sexualizing a character in a childrens movie is not something that should be encouraged or celebrated, gay, straight or trans. Although now that I think about it, that has nothing to do with fetishizing since I don't think he finds any sexual gratification from it (although that's just an assumption)
But yeah sexualizing a kids cartoon is pretty weird, I don't see how he was being phobic.
@@zocivgal9945 "Queer is often used as an umbrella term to denote sexual identity within a particular community." Straight ,queer, or whatever else it's still sexualizing minors in a show meant for kids (who really don't have a concept of sexuality besides boy and girl.) Plus lets be honest, in this case, most people who are assuming characters sexuality are most definitely thinking about a sexual thing related to them.
@@zocivgal9945 I was answering the main comment, not yours lol. "Seeing a character as queer is sexualising" is a kinda queerphobic take because there is more dimension in the queerness besides sexuality itself.
Anyway, my point is that Encanto is a good movie and all that but if we are going to have some leftist woke SWJ conversations about this, we should start by the point that Encanto itself is fetishizing, so every other interpretation that we could make about the movie will somehow inherit that problem
i mean, a headcanon isn't necessarily a theory..... more a "hey, i like this interpretation, and regardless of how likely it is to be the intended one by the source material, I'll apply it to my own thoughts about this thing because I like it better through these lens"
Exactly!! The anti-headcanoners give me very big anti-SJW energy. It feels like all the conservatives whining about original poc characters being featured in the new Lord of the Rings. As if latino culture and queer culture are wholy separate when queer latino youth would resoundingly identify with the family trauma Encanto alludes to.
@@tensai_kodai Yeah it does feel very similar to that to me as well. I know it came from leftists mainly in visibilityofcolor's social circle. But I think that shows me how easy it is for leftists to become very similar to anti SJW"s if they're not careful.
Exactly!!!
Also, my saucy hot take is that if a member of the target demographic for Spongebob Squarepants has missed the DEEPER MEANING and HISTORICAL CONTEXT of Les Miserables, and is instead using it as fodder for their shipping fanfics, you aren't doing anybody any favors by bullying them for it. Let children enjoy things on their level, and *gently* scaffold them to expand their perspective over time. I feel so bad for that autistic kid who got bullied for his Encanto headcanon TikToks, and I can't imagine that actually helped to educate him or expand his perspective in a healthy way!
@@GalaxiaStars Yeah, as someone who's been in fandoms for a very long time? It was the weirdest whiplash seeing young leftists repeat pretty much the same arguments I saw from straight white dudebros in the late 90's/early 00's about lgbtq+ headcanons.
As a lesbian Latina, I really relate to the struggles of Isabella in the movie. I too am held to really fucking high expectations and have a heteronormative agenda shoved down my throat all the time as my family expects me to marry some fucking d00d. I also decided to dye my hair blue and love making art. So obviously, I head cannon Isabella as a lesbian. It's been frustrating, especially because my partner continuously shuts me down when I try to talk about it. Saying this movie isn't about sexuality and i shouldn't be trying to introduce it into it. Granted they are white, so I find it admirable that they are listening to latino voices, but they are completely looking at this in black and white, thank you for giving me the tools to help talk about this from a more nuanced perspective because I was lacking the vocabulary to do so.
Edit: I just wanted to say that my partner has turned around with their views after taking some more time, and apologized about how they were acting before.
it's a shame your partner silences you on something like this tbh
They’re not actually listening to Latino voices if they shut down their own Latina girlfriend for headcanoning Isabela as a lesbian whine being a lesbian herself. They’re listening to the voices of people who use the fact that white queer people do try to erase the movie with queer headcanons as an excuse to be homophobic towards anyone who has those headcanons even if they’re not white or erasing the meaning of the movie.
Not to drag on your partner (you know them, not me, a random person online) but perhaps it would be good to talk with them about minority groups not being a monolith. It just strikes me as a discrepancy that your partner is trying to listen to latine voices by shutting down YOUR voice, the latine person supposedly closest to them.
@@_Lynnteressant_ Exactly, it's mad ironic and sus like huh 🤨
Explícale a tu pareja lo que significa headcanon y la muerte del autor :)
"pro-hc" and "anti-hc" made me convulsively shudder as somebody who used to interact in "pro-shipper" Vs "anti" discourse
minors DNI do NOT talk to me, little entitled BRATS
I had the exact same reaction
whoever liked my reply, thank you, you brought me back to this comment immediately after I finished mindlessly scrolling through a bunch of Tumblr pro/anti shipper discourse,
but. maybe next time try liking it BEFORE i do so
as a reminder of its horrors
*gets Discourse(TM) flashbacks*
rei ayanami
I am pro headcanon, just it extremely frustrates me that Luisa is usually the one HC'd as trans. They had to fight *so hard* to get her design to not be the traditional feminine disney woman shtick, and now a bunch of people want to label her as trans. It just feels icky for a multitude of reasons.
Edit before pitchforks: not the trans reading being icky, but the fact that 99% of people labelling the one who doesn't look feminine as the trans one. especially with how many issues trans people who struggle to pass can have.
Another trans person here, I also agree with this
Yeah, and it also seems to be rooted in the masculinization of WOC.
as a trans woman i agree. not to mention how woc are always labelled as more masculine bc femininity as a construct was built around whiteness.
Correct! That 100% upsets me. It’s a similar problem in podcast fandoms where a character doesn’t have a set race, the characters that are headcanoned as nonwhite tend to be… telling of the biases of those doing the headcanoning
Exactly!
i was deeply saddened by the way the encanto fandom used preserving culture as a cover for blatant homophobia.
exactly how i felt
I like how lgbt must make everything about them and if you disagree you’re homophobic
@@MrSophire cool 😎
@@MrSophire that is very clearly not the point being made ?
@@_-luke-_ what is the point? I see more people getting pissy that their lgbt head canons are not cannoning, remember how many were upset because Elsa was not a confirmed Lesbian, how about how twitter jumped down the creator of Lucka throat because he said the story HE wrote was about three KIDS becoming friends with homosexual no undertones. You guys cried and wined about it until he caved.
is Encanto about being gay? no.
can we make headcanons? sure.
i feel like people are so chronically online to the point where we want to impose our own opinions onto a piece of media and then expect everyone else to agree.
I’m torn between both sides. I don’t like headcannons based off of tiny details/ unreasonable stuff. But I do like the headcannons
Personally I think the people involved in this "discourse" are making the huge mistake of turning what's essentially a discussion about tone and appropriateness into a moralistic debate between two "sides". Headcanons are fine, everyone has them, acting like you can't is stupid.
It's just that some headcanon people can be annoying, especially those that talk about this as if it's a representation Pokèmon game where you gotta "catch 'em all". But that's it, at worst they're kinda annoying. It's not worth putting up that kind of fuss, just... ignore them, or politely tell them to tone it down in case they barge into a thread with a bad attitude.
@@antonioscendrategattico2302 Precisely. It's not about not allowing others to have their headcanon, it's about not wanting to hear only people headcanons when goddamn searching/talking about something.
At times, people don't want to hear about your personal spin and take on something, they want to discuss the *art in front of them*
Encanto is not explicitly about being gay but it has somewhat queercoded characters
@@spence6195 i see that word very often and i’m always confused, what does queer-coded mean? maybe i’m already too old or it’s the language barrier but to me it’s just assumptions that you make about a character, is it not?
if a guy wears a skirt, is that queer coded or does he just want to wear a skirt? idk maybe this is a dangerous thing to question but i’d like to hear your take on it
I have a neurodivergent aunt who is really nice, makes cookies for all of us, and got me the greatest YA novels when I was in middle school and my parents tried to screen everything I bought. However, my mother is a dick and she always badmouths everything my aunt does. I felt Bruno was similar to her in a kind of fun, slightly irresponsible adult who was just shut out of everything.
Also my mom LOVES passive-aggressively comparing everything masculine, weird, or reckless thing I do to as "just like your aunt" when everyone knows she means this as an insult.
Your aunt sounds so awesome
Stephanie Beatriz, the voice of Mirabel herself, has stated how much she relates to the character both due to anti Latine sentiments and biphobia. She talked about feeling like an outsider in her family because she's bisexual in an interview, the voice actress herself shares the feelings of many fans getting crucified for daring to imply that the film can be relatable to LGBTQ+ people.
Well said. One of my best friends (who is Latina and queer) is still in shock about why people can't appreciate all the reading levels. She cries over the scene with Isabela with Mirabel, because she could see her own experience of the pressure to be the perfect daughter as well as wanting to live her queer identity. It's a strength to be able to reach so many different people, not a flaw.
latino*
its a movie about a super powered family of latinos (plus the actual plot). any LGBTQ+ ideas would come from meta elements outside the movie itself. So I'd say that movie can relate to LGBTQ+ however should primarily be thought of in a straight lens because thats what the movie it self presents itself. Again let me reiterate the movie can relate to LGBTQ+ ideas indirectly
@@Lili-ib2rh its not in the movie itself.
her reading of the movie is her view of the film, in other words she subjectively views the film as pro-LGBTQ+.
others don't have to hold or agree with the same opinions or reading as her because they aren't her.
of cause this whole idea stems from post-modernist ideals that the intent of the work itself takes a backseat to a person's reading of a piece of art. take from that what you will.
TLDR: people don't have to agree with all reading levels because they have the right to agree with whatever the hell they want because personal liberty is ultimately the best policy of all as long as people think that its okay to disagree on things
@@cupsfilledwithcups72 I'd argue the movie presents itself as neither gay or straight. Nobody states their orientation outright (all the people who date could be bi or pan for all we know), so neither a gay or straight lens is better or worse to view the movie in, it's all ambiguous, and ultimately doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of the plot. What lens you see it in depends on who's watching it, which is applicable to nearly every aspect of any movie.
You seem to be arguing a point nobody was making. We know it's meta textual, nobody here at least claimed otherwise, everyone is entirely aware Disney will drop dead before ever making a movie with LGBTQ+ people.
videos like this literally remind me why subjects like sociology are so important. stellar job king.
Lain
Lain
L a i n
LAIN
lain
As a queer latino, I really appreciate you putting into words what I was struggling to. All of the people equating the queer perspective with the white perspective just didn't jibe with me, and I've felt completely ignored and sidecasted. Also with the growing number of latinos in the US steering towards radical conservatism, it feels like I'm being discriminated against even more by my own community sometimes, and the backlash exemplifies this.
It feels like queer people are being thrown under the bus in an attempt for the latin community to be more widely accepted in mainstream American culture, which is something that happens all too often. Sadly, it seems many people have lost sight of the fact that attacking other minorities is not the way we gain rights or respect, we should be banding together.
I understand your struggle but I really don't understand how "latino" and "white" are different things. Encanto has plenty of white Colombians such as Pepa, I think some people in the comments are trying to equate culture with ethnicity.
I've been told by my latino relatives and my black relatives that my queerness was caused by white culture, as if my ancestors didn't embrace queerness before they were forced to adopt queerphobic views by religious colonizers
Same. My family is extremely conservative and uses my heritage as a way to guilttrip me into masking my queerness and audhd
@@apenasmaisumdiogo.7115because there's the added layer in which this discourse is tipically american. Only in there and adyacent spaces that are more influenced by USA latino is a label for something that, more homogeneous or less, is something that exists in reality. It a prominent part of how americans understand human diversity both biological and cultural, just like race. Because is more or less race with extra steps. Latinoamericano on the other hand it's usually a word you will encounter in other discourse, very different in many aspects to this one and that pertains much more to actual discourses in Latin America since like beginning of the XX century to this day, although I think is starting to fade a away since the seventies.
Agreed with literally everything you said :)
OMG MY FAV
I swear to God, the only time the "do we need to sexualize a children's movie" argument comes up is when a character isn't straight.
Meanwhile, children are sexualized in a straight way as soon as they are jettisoned from the womb. "Oh what a little heartbreaker" "Oh what a little ladies man" "look at her little boyfriend" Etc. Etc.
and disney absolutely loves the whole "princess finds her prince" which obviously has sexual undertones/intentions there but thAtS fiNe bEcaUse TheyRe StRaigHt
Makes me sick
That's not true you freak, do you think it's right for children to be exposed to sex of any kind at a young age?
My mother HATES when people did that and I'm so happy she never let anyone say stuff like that to me as aa child.
Some are forgetting Disney princesses were like 15 dating a man in his 40’s. But god forbid someone shipping two people within the same age and sex because it’s “inappropriate.” God forbid progressing as a civilization by treating others with respect and not have a Stone Age mentality 😱
I’m a queer person of color (not Latino) but I didn’t see it through a queer lens. I saw it through a disabled lens. I’m autistic, and the family’s treatment of Bruno reminded me a lot of my autistic uncle, who stayed inside a lot, and didn’t talk to the rest of the family. I vibed with it that way. I feel like I can’t do as much as my neurotypical family, so I felt a lot of Mirabel’s sentiments about staying out of the way, or trying to help, but failing and looking a fool. That’s my lens.
Yeah I think Mirabel not having a gift could be interpreted as a disability and you could read the movie through that lense.
A lot of (what can be considered) my family's generation trauma has its roots in neurodivergence, so I really tend to vibe with interpretations of Bruno, Mirabel, or both being neurodivergent. Mirabel is constantly told that she can't do things, that she can't contribute to her family or her community, and that without the ability to do what her family can, that she is essentially useless.
And Bruno? Mentally healthy people don't choose to live in the walls of their family's house for a decade.
Maybe a disabled/ND reading isn't what the creators were going for, but it's definitely easy to pick up.
This can be added as part of an intersectional reading.
yes im queer and autistic (white though) and i kinda immediately saw it as a metaphor for neurodivergencies and disabilities (autism, ADHD, OCD, etc) before seeing a bunch of posts saying that the ONLY way to correctly interpret it is being straightfoward about generational trauma (spoilers: thats not the only way to interpret it)
@@teethdotjpeg wow! It’s almost like family problems stem from a lot of different things, and the point of art is to make people feel things! Why didn’t I think of that?
As an Asian American, the whole thing about generational stress and pressure speaks to me. Asian parents want their kids to be successful, because in Asian countries success is seen as something valuable that you can give back to your family. Namely, if you’re successful in Asia, you’re semi expected to take care of your parents when they get older. It has roots back in Confucianism and Eastern Asian traditions. That’s why Asian parents have the stereotype of harping on their kids to become “lawyers” and “doctors” and that sort of stress and expectation can be pretty harsh for a child.
i’ve literally never seen any white people completely look over the plot of the movie and only focus on their sexualities. i think people just say that cause they don’t wanna acknowledge that queer poc people can exist and struggle with more than one issue. like isabella could be dealing with her sexuality AND the pressure from her family, there can be more than one message in a movie. obviously the family trauma is the biggest one and i haven’t seen anyone discounting that, queer people just identify with isabella being pressured by her family. also, diane has said isabella is gay
Good point, also most importantly Hello fellow Blink.
I think the aggressiveness of the "stop adding queer discourse into this cultural movie" arguments, shows how little understanding/acceptance goes into the fact that queerness/sexuality is not a separate thing --- it's an integral part of a person's identity just as much as their culture is.
or beacuse they don't agree with you
@@somo4227 No amount of disagreement would erase LGBT folks from other cultures though.
@@junjunjamore7735 💀💀💀
We never said it was a separate thing. Encanto is still relatively new in terms of a kids movie exploring generational trauma in a hispanic context. Adding queer discourse and trying to make them cannon takes away the DIRECT consequence of generational trauma and conflating it with other causes (which is possible but that not the aim). I must say, I'm completely down for finding ways to relate to the encanto characters and if you want to view it through another lense, thats fantastic...it humanises them but please be respectful with the main focus of the story. It's a story that carries a lot of weight for colombians and other hispanic people in which some happen to also belong to the lgbt community.
@@gigi.castex9995 OH MY GOD THANK YOU
one thing that always rubbed me the wrong way about people against head canons is always calling it a "white thing"
like can only white people be queer now??
right
It's almost like homophobia is a big part/context of the culture
@@crazydragy4233 it's almost like there's still queer people from that culture tho (shocking i know LMFAO)
I think it's this idea that white people often make themselves a part of the LGBTQ community in order to jump ahead of minorities and/or women in the "oppression olympics" to keep their power dynamic in a rapidly changing society.
@@jumies4056 It feels like a lot of people here can't read... Or did I misunderstand you lol? Because my point exclusively depends on queer people being a thing. You can't be -phobic to a thing that ain't real...
I am half Venezuelan and bi and the fact that you are also Venezuelan and bi makes me love this channel even more. Great takes all around!
Im not gay, or a member of the LGBTQ+ community, but I am latino. With that being said; this video has really helped me understand more about them so I can be more considerate about different expressions. Te quiero dar las gracias por hacer un video tan fácil de digerir para una persona que no pertenece a esa comunidad, me haz cambiado la vida.
7 months later, guess who just found out he is bisexual?
@@kevinpeixes3735 congrats on coming out man I’m happy for you- a bisexual
@@kevinpeixes3735lmao, i was about to say, ive never met a homestuck who isnt lgbt /lh
I am half-latino and pansexual, I'm glad that I can see latino representation & somewhat queercoded representation in the same media, I genuinely believe the writers wanted to show both latino and LGBTQ representation in Encanto
@@kevinpeixes3735yyy, historias que pasan 😂😂, no eres el único, y felicidades por tu autodescubrimiento
"This movie is not an allegory for being a closeted queer person, it's about the unrealistic expectations and generational trauma" almost like being gay in a "traditionalist" family can lead to unrealistic expectations and generational trauma. Almost.
Good point
Parellels isn't the same as allegory and Encanto isn't a movie with queer allegory.
@@lilowhitney8614 but something being an allegory is an interpretation of media and interpretations are subjective. as long as you can find evidence it's valid.
and the video showed that you CAN find evidence for encanto being a queer allegory.
@@lilowhitney8614 Putting aside the subjectivity of that claim, that doesn't make queer readings invalid. They're still fairly supported by the text--whether or not they were focused on or even intended, the parallels are there. Some people relate to the movie's themes through a queer lens, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Not
Just a slight correction: a headcanon isn’t exactly a theory. It can be a theory, but it can also be just a superficial assumption you make about the story just for funsies. Calling it a theory makes it seem that everyone who has an HC believes firmly in them, that’s not always the case.
Head canon; a hypothesis that’s at times spices with a pinch of projection.
Head canons are just ideas that would be cool, say like if Isabella got a phone when they start being manufactured and gets into stocks, I see a stock person in Isabella, will it ever happen, probably not, but it would be cool
I always thought that headcannons were like a lot less serious of a thing that people have kinda ended up confusing with theories like idk uhh Tony Stark loves pumpernickel bread but doesn’t mind whole wheat or something like that vs. whatever Matpat is on about this month
Yeah exactly. I get so annoyed at people who are like, wELl ACtUallY Isabella can't be a lesbian because of this cut scene blah blah blah and it's kinda just like, I don't think anyone cares?? Very few people take their headcanons to be real in the actual story, if they did they would be calling it canon not headcanon.
exactly !! all my headcanons r just for fun/comfort and i fully respect people who have different ones to me because it’s fiction and everyone can interpret it in different ways
I'm a white AFAB queer person, and I was a "gifted child". I relate to Isabella really strongly because of my dynamic with my parents. They thought I was perfect. They wanted me to be the family's golden child. Perfect flower. And when I discovered the rainbow of ways I could exist outside of this label, I was shocked, just like Isabella was. So yea, with all due respect, I don't understand why ppl think that this is exclusively Latino narrative, when, even putting queer allegories (I mean, literal rainbows and not wanting to marry?) aside, it's a story applicable to every gifted child in some part. Even if they're white, or straight, or a man. Granted, that's probably a more complete depiction of experience of a latina woman, who is a gifted child and maybe queer, but like.... it's also relatable for many other kinds of ppl.
I identified heavily with Bruno from Encanto. Yes, I’m white. But I’m bisexual and trans, and I have been casted aside by my family. I haven’t seen my mom since I was 15, and I haven’t lived with any family since I was 17. While yes, some of this was by choice for my own well being, other parts of this was because they kicked me out of their lives. I don’t think I’ve ever had a “Bruno is trans” head canon. But I still identified heavily with the character, and I could empathize with the way his family swept his entire existence under the rug.
And I’m not sure why this isn’t talked about, but white people can have generational trauma too? Sure, it’s rare. But my great grandfather started a damn cult and moved 200 people across the country to the swamp, and they convinced people that my grandfather was a freakin prophet. My father and his siblings didn’t get out until my grandfather died from his blood alcohol levels in the 90’s. And what did they do? They did the same thing that they did with me. They swept it under the rug. They didn’t deal with the problems. Then I was born.
I don’t wanna talk over anyone’s voice…. But that’s generational trauma?
Yeah, that'll give a little trauma 😟
And you're not! The notion that white people can't have generational trauma is really weird?? Sure, chattel slavery or European colonialism won't be a white person's source of generational trauma (assuming this white person is not mixed), but your elders can be shitty and perpetuate harmful behaviors and attitudes for generations. That's not race-specific.
Really sorry to hear how your family has treated you. Hope you can find and enjoy life with your chosen family--I personally find that bonds with people you choose to be in your life tend to be way more important anyway.
Pepa is white and is one of the characters with more psychologial bagage of the film, any people can have generational trauma.
Generational trauma is incredibly common and most white families have it. It's just usually a lot less and lot more subtle because white people have not been colonized/f*cked with from the outside to the same extent. (and China, Japan, and India, which are the biggest countries population wise in the world, became democracies (let's ignore that China still isn't for a moment) a lot later than European countries did. Government policies and economic climate effect parenting a lot more than you would think)
I would hope that most other POC would take the common sense thinking that Encanto is about Latino specific trauma but trauma and how it affects people who aren't Latino can relate. Though I think POC can be protective when white folks try to say the trauma is the same or equal when oftentimes it's not.
As a indigenous and Hispanic queer nonbinary person it made me so upset that people were getting more riled up about the fact that I head anons Camilo as gender fluid than the fact that a large part of the fandom shipped LITERAL ADULTS WITH CHILDREN
This!!
SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT
The most toxic part of every fandom, EVERY FANDOM!!!!!!
i'm sorry WHAT??
i'm not really in the encanto fandom spaces so could you tell me what ship you're talking about please
@@mariaandreinagarcia6177 people were like shipping Bruno with Camilo and Mirabel horridly, which is also shipping inc es t 🤢
About the whole trans Luisa headcanon thing (or rather, the idea of headcanoning muscular women as trans), I think it ignores that there ARE trans women and transfeminine people out there who DO want to see muscular trans women in media. The thing we don't want to see is a ridiculous conservative caricature of what trans women look like (you know the one), which I think applies to all representation really. Do I think Luisa is trans? No, but I *can* empathize with a transfem who looks at her and thinks "god I wish that were me."
People expect marginalized identities to not fit into the stereotypes. It's super hard when you do, because on one hand you have people who actively stereotype or marginalize or otherwise oppress your identity or people with your identity, that ostracize you from society, and others from your own identity that reject you for fitting in the stereotype or the label too snuggly. It's weird.
as a latino trans person (not exactly woman because the binary is just not my thing) luisa was so fucking relatable for me. When you are trans around here you are expected to be strong and caring of cis queers (esp cis queer women, so you avoid being seen as a predator), you have to be motherly, you have to fix their problems, cis queers they always say shit like las travas nos van a salvar a todos and is like aint nobody saving your ass. Get up and do the work. In that sense is so. Being under the pressure of being The Most Fit For Helping. The Strongest For How Much You Went Thru. When I saw people yelling about how offensive it was to reaffirm that a character that I liked could Possibly Be Anything Alike To Me, how Horrid it was to think, I felt alienated again. It reminded me of hanging out with the boys in my school and hearing them talking about gay and trans people, horrified and mocking us, seemingly still unaware of me being just what they were mocking and just... sitting right there with them, having to hear all of it
I and my friends ALSO think she’s trans
I sadly (or fortunately) don't know the one, what is it?
I'm 100% in favour of Luisa representing trans identities and as a non-binary individual I'm actually ashamed of myself for not jumping to that myself.
To play devil's advocate, though, I think some people are pushing back against this because Luisa is the first main cast non-villain young female character who absolutely rocks and isn't shaped like a Barbie doll. Cis girls need that rep, too.
I still haven't gotten a chance to watch Encanto but, when this video started talking about the "black sheep" well, I was instantly reminded of my late Uncle. I'm Puertoriqueño, and also a trans-woman and lesbian. And really, the only one [until recently when my mother started to open up to fix our relationship] the only one on that side of the family I was close with, was my Uncle. Someone who married once had a single child divorced and never seemed interested in any other women. Almost as if he did it out of a sense of obligation more than anything else. And I don't think I've ever been able to put into words or really process our bond and how it in some ways also put me as a bit of a black sheep to the family as well. But somehow, this video, managed to do that. So I thank you.
Have people forgotten that there can be multiple interpretations of the same work, or did everybody else a little younger than me skip English (or language equivalent) class? Media can be seen through many different lenses and that doesn't make anybody's interpretation more or less correct than anybody else, we're just seeing it through different angles.
I wish more people realized this. I'm 46, and I remember when there was no internet 2.0, and people had conversations in real life. Back in those days, seeing things from a different lens wasn't contested by an army of a million chronically online, narrow-minded keyboard warriors who think that way they see the world is the right way, and they're not afraid to tell you how they feel- with a lot of shit posting and cyber bullying.
I think what really upsets me is the idea that a queer reading and a analysis of generational trauma in latino families cannot coexist.
Encanto at its core, is a story about a kid who’s left behind by their family and community for not fitting traditional standards of who they should be and the sacrifices everyone else in the family has to make to achieve those standards.
No latine kid has ever been isolated from their families for not getting magical powers. Several of them have experience this exact same thing for being queer or simply not conforming to traditional gender roles.
Like imagine I came up to a disable person and I told them they cannot interpret Encanto as an allegory for disabilities “because it’s a story about colombians”.
Colombians can relate to the movie not just for being colombians, but because some of them are disable, neurodivergent and/or gay.
Also shocker, but if you go to interact with the Encanto fandom in places with a lot lgbt teens like tumblr and tiktok, you’re gonna find a lot of interpretations that have to do with gender and sexuality.
If a teenage lesbian sees Isabella’s story of being force to marry a man to achieve her family’s expectations, they’re probably gonna connect that with their own experiences. And what’s wrong with that?
If you don’t want to interpret Encanto under queer lense you don’t have to.
Relate with the movie in your own terms and let other people do the same.
HOLY FUCK. THANK YOU. latin@ ace lesbian here, YES, i relate so much to that. the idea that I HAVE to be in a relationship with a man to satisfy society but especially my parents. also the fact I'm ace, when The sexual part of relationships in my culture is SO prominent, and also the shame that comes with my sexuality already being seen as an inherently sexual thing... it all weighs down on you.
ever since I've started seeing the "you can't headcanon encanto characters as queer because the cultural message..." comments i was like, yeah i guess, but also, having to hide my queerness is part of having to play to the expectations my culture and family give me, HELLO??
(Sorry for any bad english and rambles i just AAAAAAA?????!!)
Latino trans man here and you are so right. At first I only felt slightly uncomfortable about people only making it about LGBT stuff because the scenarios I would see (mostly white people make) were so out of character in our culture and more so in our countries that they would make me feel lost haha, but I think at the same time that was kinda hypocritical of me since I would also turn around and headcanon Bruno as a trans man since I would relate to mi mamá literally "not talking about me" to other people in the family. Honestly there's no harm in having headcanons and I think we all know at the end of the day there are so many headcanons because there is SO FEW canon characters, more so in Disney, that are LGBT.
Yes
there's nothing wrong with connecting to characters on your own level but to say a certain character is undoubtedly gay or lgbt because of the imaginary hcs you came up with is just as limiting as someone saying the opposite. for ex someone saying that Isabella is a straight up lesbian because she doesn't wanna take part in an arranged marriage can be an somewhat exclusionary considering how arranged marriage is still prevalent and definitely not exclusive to members of the lgbt who don't want to commit to heterosexual relationships. it's ok to make a connection like that but dont just write off the idea of not liking arranged marriage as a lesbian thing 😂
@@B0OBIES i think the point of headcanons are things that are supposed to differ from the narrative
It's the reason why headcanons are marked as headcanons and not fact nor opinions
I think some anti-hc statements show a problem that affects many queer people. Separation of queerness and national identity that comes both from within the lgbtq+community and from straight people. If we declare our queerness we are exluded from our traditions as our family disowns us and, at least in my case, big part of our national identity is routed in religion with a very homophobic church. A dichotomy is created between “the traditional values“ and “the western influence“. And the lgbt rep we get is mostly white amrican too, so it feels like you cant actually belong anywhere.
finally! this is exactly how i feel!! thank you!!!
Homosexuality (in my country’s context, woNt disclose name) had history of homosexuality being accepted in our communities and even polyamory was approved. This was during the pre-colonial era and it sadly got pushed back in progress due to colonizers. I can relate to how the dichotomy tends to affect poc’s cultures who have religion heavily influence it. I personally relate to that as I feel detached due to my religion being an aetheist. Anyways to wrap up this weird bundle of words thank you for this comment this makes so much sense and it’s eye opening, I personally believe that you can still be queer and love ur culture and participate it with those who love and support you (and It’s also ok if you don’t !)
We really need more queer poc representation so that it really breaks down the narrative of Homosexuality being a “Western thing”.
I personally am just against hc based on stereotypes, example how people hc Luisa to be trans "just because" she is strong or buff. Why not Isabela? Mirabel? Bruno? Maybe im just the problem idk
the erasure of the influence of people of color on the LGBT rights movement really is tragic not only the fact that people like Sylvia were ostracized from their own community, but now future generations of queer people of color have to fight against the idea that their queerness is something "other" something "white" or "western" or however someone wants to frame it simply because the US was where some of the most visible parts of the movement came from, even though that ignores that the queer rights movement in the US that everyone feels they're so familiar with can literally trace it's origins to people of color.
watched this twice now and I think this is one of the most important encanto videos out there. tiktok fandom was so awful about this movie, and you can still feel its impact in fanfics/fanart bc of how scared off people got because of this discourse. peace on earth if encanto fandom had been intersectional from the beginning.
Soy Colombiana, no neurotípica, y pansexual. Me identifique mucho con Mirabel y sobretodo me dijeron que me parecía a ella, no solo físicamente alc xD. Por cierto, amo mucho tus videos, intento aprender y acostumbrarme al listening con ellos
The fact that I'm an English native who knows barely any Spanish (Although I did grow up with Spanish spoken around me, just not regularly enough to learn it) and I can understand the bulk of this comment is wild
@@gloop7458 English and Spanish do have a lot of cognates and the grammar is understandable despite its differences if you only know one. Plus, even a small amount of exposure helps. I watched Dora a lot as a little kid, and I think it helped when I actually tried learning Spanish later bc I'm a natural (I had an A in Spanish and an F in English at one point lol)
love how both sides of the argument completely ignore the fact that "hey! intersectionality exists!"
Literally why I give up arguing with ppl on the internet lol
they also ignore the reality that there can just... be several interpretations of a piece of art depending on the viewer whether the artist intended it or not and this if fine. so if they're trying to be progressive, it's ignoring intersectionality, and if they are just trying to enjoy the movie they could just ignore the other interpretations like they would with everything else they consume
@@bobbirdsong6825 honestly yeah, i have a problem where i can see any piece of art (music, drawn, book) as a memento mori
everything is a reminder that you will die when you have my eyes
Tbh most of the headcannon debates are people getting mad at people for having a headcannon. The majority of headcannoners I see don't really impose it as fact just an interesting interpretation. So for the most part it feels like one side forgets intersectionality exists.
The fandom got toxic so fast with Encanto. It makes me glad I don't really partake in fandom much anymore, but I sure as hell noticed how frequently people went against the LGBT interpritations here. Gatekeeping against LGBT headcanons struck me as homophobia because they're saying you can't embrace the themes and culture of the movie while also thinking a character could be LGBT. Nothing specifically confirms the character is straight. Nobody knows what Luisa, Bruno, Isabela, Camilo, and Mirabel want in a relationship. They're fictional characters, they don't exist in a way that negates the interpretations.
you said everything
@yeah okay Aren't gays more common in anime than western animation? xD
@@junjunjamore7735 that sounds like another 40 minute video… 😂
I think people have an issue with it because people are really trying to paint the idea that these characters must be lgbt because of a stereotype (being a strong woman, or rejecting a man) It takes away from the movie to say Abuela’s pressure and shunning of her own family has to do with them being different (gay, trans etc) when in reality the pressure comes from them needing to meet an expectation based on her trauma.
Edit (for the record I’m gay myself so no this isn’t out of “homophobia”)
Me too, I "partake" in fandoms but... not that fandom, even though I love the movie 😪
I have the Encanto tag blocked on tumblr because I haven't seen the movie (and also don't have a tiktok), and hearing about this discourse is like driving past a fight in a parking lot
Great video though! Intersectionality is so so important!!!! Thank you for laying it out so well!
BAHAHSHSHD IM WHEEZING
Edit: omg so glad you also noticed the stuff with the trans luisa headcannon discourse aka lack of headcannons 😭
On the luisa as trans headcannons it's SUPER IMPORTANT to note that the trans Latinas who headcannoned her were utterly erased in the discourse. I never even SAW anyone headcannon her but heard constant reference to these white trans people and tbh from cis people (yes some lgbt+ Latinas) complaining at length about them.
And saw them called out by a single trans Latina of course. People who headcannoned luisa in those cases weren't saying every trans woman is muscly and weren't saying no cis Latina is, but rep for non passing trans people that's not "man in a dress" or scarbo in a suit is vanishingly rare. So that conversation, even though it's not my place as a white trans person to get involved, really needed both calling out of any racist white people as well as engagement with transfemme latine people.
"A vaguely homoerotic half
pseudo-venezuelan half mexican sociology major" has got to be the best sentence I have heard someone use to describe themselves
I cannot tell you how much this is as a Latina lesbian, feeling compelled to turn to one side but still feeling marginalized and left out in another. And every time I’ve commented about “what about Latino queers?” I’ve been met with silence. Thank you for finally answering my question after neither side could.
Same...
Nb these people really be acting like only white people can be queer or neurodivergent. Or both. 😒 As a Black lesbian I totes agree with you.
this was a well made video. i'm half mexican and queer, and it felt rlly weird to have see ppl act like those things couldn't coexist. i even saw other queer latine ppl take that stance which just made me check out
This whole thing confused me… how does seeing someone as LGBTQ+ erase culture? I can personally see mirabel being bi but also i still see the beautiful culture of Colombia. How does seeing her as bi prevent seeing the culture?
Because people say Alma hated her because she was Bisexual when in reality she cast to the side for not being useful in her families eyes
@@SaikiKFann Right, but in reality both Mirabel and Alma are fictional. Real people do not have magical powers (but fun fact: queer latinos ARE real). If the end result is the same (family conflict) then I don't really see why a queer reading would be a problem. Never mind that a person can have a family conflict *both* because they are queer and because they are perceived as not useful for the family. These concepts are not mutually exclusive.
After watching Encanto with my friends, I (Chicana) mentioned off hand that Bruno displayed some traits of Autism. My friend (white) told me that I shouldn't HC that because of the cultural differences (His superstitions are imbedded in Latine culture etc) ... to which I told her "You can be Colombian AND Autistic" ~Intersectionality~
yeah, also,, the way he used said superstitions felt like compulsions that he does in order to not freak out? At least that's how I interpreted it
I'm autistic and I really do appreciate this comment. Some days I worry I'm just projecting my autistic struggles onto characters, so I never say anything when I feel like I relate to a character. I can acknowledge that the finer details and cultural contexts are obviously very different between me and Bruno, but I related to being ostracized and misunderstood like how Bruno was, and about wanting to withdraw from family connection, so as to not make them look bad.
Nah bro it cancels out obviously 🙄/satire obviously
Not to mention the discourse over hc'ing Bruno as having OCD when the screenplay literally mentions him having OCD
@@peeblekitty5780 Ikr lmao, unfortunately the anti-headcanon approach also has a lot of ableism in it as well.
Since no one else will say it because they're too busy fighting in the comments, this video is excellently made. Lighting, chalkboard, the way you talk, editing, and the overall composition is great. You deserve more recognition and subs.
Absolutely agree. This video alone has earned a subscription from me.
Exactly
I was thinking this while listening. They are funny, well spoken, and put some real effort anf thought into this video and it's content.
yeah it was a great video and even got me too stay who dislikes the whole movement of victim/who has it worse.
Who tf is fighting in this comment section? Point me to them. You can't. They don't exist
Things I'll never judge you for: Being Queer, Being a TH-camr, Being Hispanic, Being a Sociology Major, etc.
Things I will definitely judge you for: Blatantly saying Venezuelan arepas are better than Colombian arepas.
I was going to subscribe, but now I'm not.
Wait which is better??
Cope 🇻🇪
@@moony00 Colombian by far
@@the_embarrassed_lemon5967 oh okay
@@moony00 To be honest they are pretty similar and I am biased.
huh last time I checked fanfics and head cannons were things everyone did for fun, and everyone did what they personally most wanted to see. we are not media producers, we shouldn't even have to think about it in this way, let people have fun
The thing about general audience, yes exactly that. I'm a white non-binary German who watched this movie and related most to the family struggles and the feeling of being misunderstood by the older generations. Of course there's a lot more to this movie but that's what I took most from it. I have a pretty big family and we're all very close so the family Madrigal felt so similar to mine. And I saw myself in Mirabel. I loved this movie a lot for many reasons, but that was the main one
Same, I’m also German but the thing is I’m not the German German, I’m half Russian, and I’m not Russian Russian. This combination would make people in Germany think: “oh this is someone who says Digga or Schwuchti a lot” no, there is a lot of stereotypicalisation (if that is true) and I am trans and pansexual, sure, but whenever I meet people that also identify like me, they most likely fit in these stereotypical expectations, so I do feel like I never fit in my country, until I met someone that is born in Russia and came to Germany at a young age, who is trans and gay, he really loves to speak English, because he feels the same, we both hate these stereotype that actually is like 80% true everywhere here, and we connected and mostly only spoke in English (we are both fluent for some reason, well he actually loved English media and that’s why, and I was some years in America before I met him in 6th grade.)
We both have family issues and we don’t fit in the main stream in our country. We avoid the language so we feel more comfortable, and we speak Russian less that German for russians homophobic reasons, still it is part of ourselves and we aren’t lying about it being part of ourselves, we just don’t like that part and it’s okay.
Honestly we always joke about how two homophobic cultures can make something so gay))
But anyways, we loved and enjoyed the movie a lot because it relates to our past struggles, but after time passed we learned how to accept it, since it’s not bad that we aren’t the stereotypical people, we even joked about being quirky (ez) but he doesn’t have a big family, since only his mom came with him to Germany (when his parents divorced) and at his birthday only his and his moms (also his aunt is the only family that comes too) friends come. And I have a big family that always ignored my existence except my sister (and maybe my mom and brother bc we live together) so it’s very relatable.
We both love our family, because I can only hate the actions of my family but never learn to hate them completely for their actions, which is again a relatable thing in encanto.
I really think we don’t have any hcs.. XD maybe Luisa being asexual? Not more tbh, I’m just saying I can relate to your comment ♥️😂
Ich hatte wirklich keinen Bock das alles auf deutsch zu schreiben, aber naja, hoffe du verstehst es trotzdem ♥️
Also: non-binary pronouns in German should be a thing !!! 😭😭😭
@@xxmathiasnofacexx Damn, what a story 😅 I love that for you guys, that's lovely! I'm glad you found something you can relate to even though it's very different from what you actually experience!
I actually don't really have any headcanons but Bruno being outsided by his family especially his mother felt very like he was gay to me. There are only little things that support that but I just felt like his situation would mirror the one of a gay/queer child.
Und kein Stress, ich studiere Englisch und hab viele englischsprachige Internetfreunde, ich kann in beiden Sprachen gut kommunizieren 💕😊
And totally agree about the pronouns thing.... it's a struggle 😅
@@xxmathiasnofacexx same!
@@violetthunter thanks!
@@xxmathiasnofacexx I'm also a queer and trans person born in Russia and came to Germany at an early age! It's so nice to meet more people like me. It didnt start too long ago for me that I wanted to think about my own identities and struggles that come with immigration, queerhostility, generational abuse, never being able to connect with others from the community, not feeling 100% German or Russian or Kazakh. Its really weird. But I'd love to talk and exchange experiences with those who struggle or struggled with the same
As the oldest daughter, "pretty one", long time closeted lesbian, who is expected to take care of everyone, I really saw myself in Luisa and Isabela in a way I don't normally see on screen. Many oldest daughters in white families are parentified from a young age and expected to take on many adult roles, especially if lower-middle class/working class, rural, divorced/single parent, and/or religious (my family was all those). But another characteristic of "white culture" is pretending inequality doesn't exist and gaslighting people who speak up about it; this pattern starts in the home. I don't expect to see this dynamic honestly represented in mainstream media with characters that look like me. What's Eating Gilbert Grape is the only thing I can think of that comes close and that movie has sooo many issues I wouldn't know where to start. Just because I see myself in those 2 characters doesn't mean it's now "my movie" or take away from the cultural significance
It's possible to relate to characters on a deep individual level and appreciate cultural differences, especially if those characters hold a similar societal role. Scary that so-called progressive people think those are mutually exclusive, but that's just part of my Cassandra complex lol
I definitely saw myself in Luisa and Isabella. I was the oldest daughter as well (I've since come out as trans) and I felt the need to be perfect and strong for my siblings because that's what everyone told me to do (the perfect was more implied, but the strong for siblings was explicitly said)
in Latin families the oldest daughter taking on roles if also common I was born female however i was the youngest child but since the older daughter was more rebellious they transfered the expectations on to me when I decided to transition to male the expectations would still continue i think they were so set on who they wanted me to be I was shoved into a box.
@@JuanitoEsBonito Not from a Latin family but when my dad passed away my mum placed similar pressure onto us. She was too depressed to take on her role, so I kinda fell into it. Then she remarried and I got an older sister who couldn't cook, clean, do laundry or anything else really....
As bonus when I turned 15 they started to travel the world, so I had to be a parent with zero authority of two teens. Trying to manage our budget whilst having my big sister pull a tantrum she can't have take-away again and I'm supposed to listen to her because she's older. Or that time she was sleeping around and I made the judgement call to get her on birthcontrol and years later it turns out she thought she couldn't get pregnant at all because she was trying and failing and I realised I didn't explain it properly. And now mum wonders why she isn't getting grandkids from me, I've already been a terrible parent once, not trying again.
@@esmee6308 that's awful I hope you were able to find some peace and stray away from all the pressure and stress later in life.
yeah that kind of sexism happens almost everywhere sadly. * intersectional feminism intensifies *
A loooot of people tend to forget that you can belong to more than one minority at once.
yeah
So on my first viewing of encanto I definitely felt that Bruno was an ostracized gay uncle. I mean heck they even put him in the walls. How in the closet does a guy have to be
The comment about the gays ''doing the same thing with Luca'' is so funny because I'm Italian and gay lmaoo yes I wanna see the Ligurian coast, yes I wanna see them be in a relationship
I also got called a groomer for saying Luca and Alberto could have a crush on each other
Ah sì, gli americ*ni che pensano che le persone italiane non siano bianche
@@lekswig3316 how?
They do well on calling you a groomer
@@doctext-jose.e-3484 ah yes, you certainly have a great grasp of what that word means. You sure put your big boy pants there, using such a big boy word.
@@doctext-jose.e-3484 no bitches ?
Okay but I suffered with this over DISCUSSING OTHER PEOPLES HEADCANONS. There is a popular headcanon that Bruno has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (not an unfounded headcanon, as I have had OCD my entire life and have been diagnosed for a few years now i can 100% safely say Bruno STRONGLY fits the criteria and symptoms) and I simply discussed via Tiktok that if you are going to HC Bruno as having OCD to please do so with care to avoid stereotyping bc ppl w OCD suffer so much at the hand of stereotypes.
In response I had a SLEW of comments say i was "erasing the culture of the movie to make it about white people". Discourse that was almost entirely from other white people. They used excuses like "the movie isnt for YOU" and the stereotypey feeling "Latino ppl are superstitious" even though I know people of Latino origin with OCD who DEEPLY connected with Bruno and found joy in seeing OCD symptoms onscreen represented for them. POC can be Neurodivergent, and dismissing disability symptoms because of someones culture is DANGEROUS. There IS an intersection, and even though I am white OCD is erased SO MUCH in ND discourse so it makes me angry to see this even SMALLER group in the OCD community erased bc of the inability of certain people to acknowledge intersectionality using bs arguments based in ableism and cultural stereotypes.
PS the WORST of the people harassing me in my comments was a Mirabel roleplay account who claimed she was Mirabel actually making tiktoks from Colombia in the 1950s. Nothing to add there, I just find it funny a Mirabel cosplayer harassed me so much I had to block them completely after like 20 comments calling me racist and making ableist remarks LMFAO
Totally agree. Actually, Bruno's OCD is mentioned in the movie script, so could it be considered a sort of canon? idk, the only thing i'm sure of is that most of people have no idea of what OCD is about. First of all, it’s not about the obsessions topics, but the way these obsessions get stuck in people's heads and what they do trying to overcome them (compulsions). Obviously superstitious rituals themselves are not intrinsically related to OCD and assuming otherwise is problematic. Sure, Bruno is superstitious, and surely his rituals are related to his cultural background, but its the over-exaggerate way he performs them that makes them look really compulsive. They also seem to reflect him being state of anxiety. I'm sure he possibly having OCD doesn't erase the culture or the generational trauma, it just adds an ulterior layer to the character's depth.
Personally, as having OCD myself, i felt moved to finally see on screen the representation of a character with OCD symptoms which is not stereotypical.
"Latino people are superstitious"
How does that mean a Latino person can't be ocd?
@@thepinkestpigglet7529 LEGIT. People from superstitious families and cultures actually struggle MORE with OCD because people wont listen to them and cant get a diagnosis as a result
@@zech_ THIS. People wave it off as superstitious cultural behaviour but a superstition should not cause you anxiety and they SHOULD NOT rule your life. And the rituals should not lead to massive relief. When they do, as with Bruno, it becomes OCD. And while superstitious behaviour doesnt automatically equate to OCD, it CAN be a common manifestation (referred to as Magical Thinking OCD).
ikr!! i have ocd too, and people act like you can't be both neurodivergent and latino?? it's so weird, i really dont understand what goes through the heads of the ppl who gatekeep like that
dude, i literally love the way you say encanto and latino its just so euphoric and reminds me of my dominican grandma 🤧
Can not believe one of those TilTok comments tried to say that Luca isn’t gay as hell LMAO
Tik tok is a postmodern horror itself
As a Latina, I see the value on Encanto and why people in our community are so quick to defend it on either side of the argument. But I do take issue with it being held as a gift from the gods, a perfect representation that will solve all issues or that people feel like they have to defend it cause they have nothing else that represents them. At the end of the day, Encanto is a product of capitalism. The creators don’t care, Disney actively harms our communities, and we should not be bending backwards to defend the movie and hold it on a high position.
WELL SAID
This ^^^^
They’re spitting F.A.C.T.S
I’m Colombian and didn’t like encanto because it just felt bland, but here’s my actual problems with it and the whole situation
It’s really annoying first world people need to be spoon-feed information about other cultures by their own corporations, example: I just googled “Colombian movies with English subtitles” and found at least 20 free to watch movies within the first 4 results, some even here on TH-cam, but some people just discovered my country even existed through this movie
And I guess I should be happy, at least my country won’t be misspelled with an U instead of an O that much and some people realized there’s black people here in Latin America, so... yay? I mean, I don’t want so say Encanto didn’t do something important, but somehow don’t feel satisfied
It’s just... I find it depressing that the cost of representation is having my culture forever be associated to this giant, evil monopoly
@@squeen666 FAX
I'm so confused as a bi white Brazilian...where the hell do I fit in this discourse?
I'm I considered Latino, too? do i have a say in this?
The movie makers said they dont care if you think a character is queer. They never put deeper thought into the sexuality as all the writer were straight if Im correct. They were just trying to tell a story about perceptions and generational trauma. But if someone takes a character to represent them, then more power to them.
Omg that’s so cool but where did you read that.
The moment you started speaking Spanish after all that warmed my bi puertorican heart. Thank you for this video it truly helped me♡
I've never once seen head cannons as theories. They're more like Fanfiction AU's
I see Queer headcanons no differently then how I see Hogwart House headcanons.
I doubt many would rage, "You're ignoring the plot of the movie!" If someone put Luisa in Hufflepuff.
It's also really worrying that a lot of people's reactions we're, "It's a children's movie!"
Implying that having a relationship with the same sex is NSFW...
You are very right, thumbs up 👍
It literally is but ok💀
@@Very_Silly_Individual but would you describe having a relationship with the opposite sex NSFW? Of course you wouldnt, its drilled into you from the day your born. Little phrases like “oh he’s such a ladies man already” or “ooh shes gonna be a heartbreaker” coupled with being raised on kids movies with straight love stories, these reinforce the idea that straight is the norm and what is the only acceptable form of relationship. People arent cutting out NSFW themes to protect children, they’re erasing queer identities and relationships.
I only really make it a problem when they are trying to tell me that their AU IS the plot of the movie but thats more me going "Wtf are you talking about"
I agree, i've never heard headcanons equated to theories. its even in the name, "head" canon. canon in your head but nothing you can take to court
I saw a girl on TikTok say that hc of Encanto characters being trans women takes away their femininity and it made me sick enough to realize that I am not the person to discuss this topic, so thanks for this video.
I???????? if you think being a trans woman is less feminine than being a cis woman, then that is just transphobia, plain and simple.
I haven't seen the video yet, but this feels like the right comment to post on. How do you guys feel specifically about the HC of Luisa being trans? I've seen some people say that we shouldn't be taking away the strong female character (mainly saying that the HCers are saying women cannot be "biologically strong"). I've also seen that the majority of people who headcannon this are transfem people who like working out and haven't had surgeries. What are your takes? I personally think that yes, it is nice to have a strong female character, people who see themselves in her shouldn't be hated for HC her as trans, because it doesn't take anything away from her.
@@demetrian7856 Depends entirely on the context. Personally? Eh, not my cup of tea. Your example of transfem seeing themselves in Luisa? A+, keep rocking on! However, while I thankfully haven't seen this specifically for Luisa, I have seen trans-headcanons in other fandoms that - intentionally or unintentionally - imply the only reason a women is strong and/or has muscles is because she's AMAB. Usually the HC is meant to be pro-trans, it just ends up unintentionally transphobic/sexist because of ignorance or forgetting context.
In general I don't mind what people headcanon. Canon won't be affected any way, so make all the fanwork and headcanons you want! But I will side-eye people who seriously claim their HC is canon. Mostly because I saw so many transpeople be heartbroken or annoyed when yet another "canon transperson" turned out to be either a crossdresser or just not 100% masculine/feminine.
@@demetrian7856 for me I think as long as it’s not solely based in stereotypes, then it’s ok. I think the idea that making a woman trans means she’s only strong because of the way she was born just enforces the harmful idea that “trans women aren’t real women”. If someone really relates to a character and wants to hc the character to be even more similar to themselves, I don’t really see any harm in it.
@@demetrian7856
I don't headcanon Luisa as trans, but as a transfem who has a body type similar to hers, I do see myself in her, and that's comforting to me. I don't see anything wrong with that.
I love how homophobes think that gay Latinos don’t exist.
To be fair, no one exists. I’m a solipsist.
I also relate in many ways to lots of the chracter as a pan, afab, genderfluid, half indian , this was a really well put together video with a lot of thought, good ideas, and well explained. Thanks alex
The generation defining moment that a group of marginalised people tell another group of marginalised people that they’re marginalising them over an animated Disney movie musical. Honestly it’s one for the history books and the sociology books. Nothing could define these years more perfectly. Welcome to the 2020’s everyone.
it's not the 2020s or a generational problem, it's a systemic one. marginalised groups have always been fighting each other under the guise of "they are taking away my resources" (this happens everywhere, see for example poor people who are made to hate immigrants for taking away jobs or made to hate people who can't/don't have a job for exploiting the system in which they have to work so hard in which is dumb cause the real people taking away resources and exploiting the system will always be the ones already in power)
@@DineLade LOUDER FOR THE ONES IN THE BACK.
But no seriously, I'm still in awe at how now that I'm actually understanding what the shit patriarchal capitalism is, everything keeps stemming from it.
Misogyny (and the misandry that's really "toxic reverse misogyny")? Patriarchy, motivated by capitalism!
Cishetallonormativity? Patriarchy, motivated by capitalism!
Classism? Patriarchy, motivated by capitalism!
Racism? Patriarchy, motivated by capitalism!
It's like the four horsemen of the patriarchy, where the ones who profit are the rich men in power and thanks to christianity, the rich white men in power. And these things can all intersect and fuck shit up even more, because it helps cause power struggles between marginalized groups and it's such obvious "divide and conquer" tactics that I'm always angry when people don't realize the people in power WANT this to continue and they keep trying to fan the flames.
Yes 😔
@@neoqwerty If only we all stop fighting amongst ourselves and unite against our common enemy - the rich, white, cishet, male, Christian, capitalist. Edit: A modern Black Panthers is needed.
@@neoqwerty You know there are millionares that are not white, or that are women, right.....???
I'm just thinking about Stephanie Beatriz traying to circle around the idea of Encanto being queer with too many words because it's disney so she can't just say "yeah, it's pretty gay actually"
oof i saw that interview as well haha
drop the link sis i need to see this
Pls pls what interview was it?
Following to get that link as well
linkkkkkk
Is it just me, or has anyone else identified with the animal sidekicks in Disney movies? As an ace person, I always liked them the most, just being goofy and being yourself and not interested in the romance, but being a good friend, I think we deserve to be more than the goofy sidekick, but we were always the most interesting.
Love the way you go about each side's arguments so systematically. Really speaks to how we can understand the situation as a whole through such means. (also you look stunning in that dress shirt and pants)
All the anti-hc positions also re-articulate old homophobic rhetoric as well. I keep seeing comments like "why do you queers always make everything about being gay" and make it seem okay by inserting "white queers"
I have so many more thoughts about this. "Encanto isn't about being gay it's about generational trauma" forget the role colonialism plays in homophobia and heteronormativity and how homophobia and generational trauma are rooted in colonial oppression. Generational trauma informs homophobia. AHHH
In fact, generational trauma can indeed come from deeply rooted homophobia/transphobia as well! It's also a reason why queer people see themselves so much in these movies where generational trauma or toxic familial bonds are depicted - the strain between family members can indeed be created by holding onto outdated gender roles and/or homophobic beleifs.
I also hate reading the "you queers keep sexualizing kids' movies" argument. Sexuality can affect a plethora of things in someone's identity and interaction with the world around them, and it can go from how they dress and their mannerisms to their familial relationships; either because of the micro cultures the community creates, or because of oppression and trauma that can come from it, etc. People see themselves and their experiences in these characters, and they are not necessarily thinking about sexual/romantic scenarios with the characters when they assign them a sexuality. Usually it's about a broader experience with identity
This! Some people use “white queer person” or “white trans person” as an excuse to be queerphobic while claiming you’re being progressive
Agreed. I feel like people forgot that even if you are a part of an oppressed group, you can still play a part in the oppression of others, even if one or more of the other person's identities are privileged. Privilege with one identity doesn't take away the oppression that come with the other.
Reminds me of when ppl complain about “white girls” when they’re really just complaining about girls
I, a non-Colombian latino with generational trauma who saw myself represented in the movie, am literally terrified to post my headcanons
Colombian*
[chanting] post them
post them
post them!
POST THEM!
As a GAY COLOMBIAN, I really don’t need anyone to be upset for me. I don’t care at all about “missing me message,” whatever that means.
Media can be interpreted under many different scopes, not only the generational trauma scope.
Mirabel is an outsider in her family because of something about her that she can’t change, if that’s not parallel with the queer experience, then I don’t know what to tell y’all.
Also, people really need to chill out with “white people think this way,” and “Latinos/Colombians feel that way,” trying to pass your opinion as a fact about an entire group of people is neither hot nor cute. Every Colombian person is different, and there’s countless aspects to our culture that crave to be explored, stop the weird gatekeeping.
can i just say, your videos are perfection. the way you have these open discussions with the open mindset and the examples... i love it so much
Bruno is literally living in the walls of the house with rats because his gift "wasn't helping the family" but he didn't want to leave. If that's not really fucking close to a closet idk what is lol.
Racist
@@skylarbremen5552 ?
@@skylarbremen5552 huh?
So now we're pulling the racist word now, I see.
@@iknowthatyouregayfireflies9992 yes because I’m joking
@@skylarbremen5552 just because something is a joke doesn’t mean that it’s not racist.
As a gay nerodivergent Latino, I really saw myself in Bruno. I really saw myself in Bruno as I am basically the outcast of my family. So that’s why I headcanon Bruno as a gay nurodivergent man, because I am one myself and I really feel like I have a character to connect to. So telling latino people to not have these head canons feels really weird to me. Especially if the person saying this isn’t queer nurodivergent or Latino
Yeah I’m not Latino myself but I’m mixed race, and queer and neurodivergent and I immediately saw so much of myself in Bruno even the first time I watched encanto, so to see the whole discourse popping up is wild.
My trans, gay columbian ass just wondering why people are so upset about hcs. Why is it not okay to make gay hcs for literally any movie (whether representitive of a certain community or not) but anyone can make any staight ship? (straight ships are fine, but so are gay ships)
“Maybe it’s phallic, maybe it’s squidward” sent me
While many of the people arguing about this, who aren't even latine and less than anything colombian, Colombia has a thriving LGBT+ culture and has more legal protections than in "developed countries" in the First World.
Queer and latino identity were never contradictory, and anyone saying otherwise either is a full blown queerphobe and/or has never met anything but queerphobe latines.
Also, the fact that this "discourse" was at it's peak when Colombia was going through some real shit that nobody but other Latines living in Latin america talked about will never not stop being sadly funny.
dude colombia is what? maybe we are more progressive than other latinamerican countries but i certainly wouldn't call Colombia one of the most queer friendly place in the entire world. Maybe just bogotá and even that is pushing it a little.
Colombia is what? LMAO
@Lya Tahiri You are really understimating how NON queer friendly the rest of the world is, dude. A country that allows gay marriage, doesn't linch queer people on the street and doesn't define itself by it's queerphobia is queer friendly by definition.
Also, that is literally what queer colombian organizations say too. Google about that. You guys have an actual entire LGBT+ district with it's own openly LGBT+ representatives.
@@gearbear4530 A country that allows gay marriage, doesn't linch queer people on the street and doesn't define itself by it's queerphobia is queer friendly by definition.
Also, that is literally what queer colombian organizations say too. Google about that. You guys have an actual entire LGBT+ district with it's own openly LGBT+ representatives.
@@cidevant002 by "queer district" you probably mean Bogota, where Claudia Lopez, a lesbian woman, is mayor, pretty shitty at her job of protecting marginalized comunities and just shitty at her job in general so it's not like that's a win in the lgbtq+ colombian comunity's book, but it also ignores the fact that a few months ago some crazy dude interrupted one of her public events to tell her she was going to hell, when she won there was outrage because she published a picture kissing her wife AND her oponent was pretty openly homophobic.
Just last week i was on the bus and they were saying on the radio a trans woman had been found dead with signs of torture, and that wasn't the first time something like that has happened this year. This country is deeply catholic and some of its most prominent politicians are openly anti-lgbtq+, they are still against any kind of gender identity talk because that's "indoctrinating children" Colombia is definitely not one of the most queer friendly places in the world when all we do is the bare minimun.
It's just sad that these marginalized communities are so desperate for representation that they feel like they have to fight over any sliver they get I understand the feeling of we finally have something of our own just let us have this don't turn it into something it's not but at the same time recognizing that both parties are looking for the same thing mainstream media that they can relate to the movie can be both concepts neither concepts or one of the concepts all simultaneously because art is subjective each individual can take from it what they need
Why do you get to say this is ours and not yours? Legitimately. You don't own it.
@@kellharris2491 It's funny because, last I checked, Disney is the only one that owns it :p
Exactly people are stupid that's why I stop interacting with people who do this same thing with Turning Red and Louca
Are Latinos marginalized? Their telenovelas are incredibly popular in my country
@@meimeilei yes, latinos are incredibly marginalized, especially in places like the US. for example, a huge chunk of trumps political campaign was to build a wall to keep latinos from crossing the mexican border into the US, and he actively spread the belief that illegal immigrants from mexico and south america would bring (in his words) more "killers, criminals and rapists" into the country. the fact that he won the election and has thousands of people supporting him to this day speaks volumes on how latino people are viewed in the US
I have no problem with most lgbtq+ head cannons. But I do have a problem with the Isabella lesbian and Luisa trans hcs. Luisa's character design is pretty revolutionary for Disney because she has more buffer traits and is indeed a woman. That's what makes her unique and now people want to take that away with "oh she's trans." With Isabela, I think her feelings are being misinterpreted. Isabela doesn't want to marry Mariano because she likes girls but because she just doesn't like him. That's it. Even when Encanto's characters were being drafted Isabela was going to have another male lover that she shared feelings for. Other than that most of them are fine.
My thoughts too. It's interesting that it can be offensive both ways... "X woman doesn't like that Y guy? Must be a lesbian"
This, Fandom always getting a head of themselves, one thing to have fanfics another to say it's possible in Canon or coded when it's not
How would Luisa being a transwoman take away from her being a woman?
@@gota7738 In representation logic it's saying she's buff because she's trans, and also that trans women are buff. Making a buff cis woman or a skinny trans woman gets you 'better' diversity.
“the people agreeing are white” well the people disagreeing are straight?
i wrote a poem for a class about the fighting between racism, homophobia, transphobia, and feminism, and how the fighting between just results in silencing and no progress in either, and instead we need to work together and acknowledge the intersectionality a few weeks ago, so thank you very much with a video on this topic :)
Damn, that sounds like a complex as hell poem. Props for you.
I admire people who can make those kind of poems, you know with intent and forethought, as mine are about shoes being sad and carthographic hair. Not very deep I must admit.
But yeah. Like goddamn keep being creative.
Good job on expressing nicely the complex topic of intersectionality. I hope you will create more poems.
The initial statement is also just straight up ignoring the pro-HC POC in the discourse. Because the straights will always wish to separate what they see as "their" culture from queerness.
as a bisexual, trans, Aboriginal, damn if those arguments don't make me just want to walk tf away from all of society.
this is kind of a random personal anecdote, but one time i wrote a poem about similar issues for school and ended up winning second place in a contest I didn't even remember entering lol
It's really bugged me this entire time that gay readings on Encanto are explicitly referred to as "YT" readings by most ppl against it... as if there are no lgbt latine ppl. So glad you addressed that.
Yeah like, some of these people are making it sound like being queer is « a white thing »… Which is kind of confusing to me.
@@viveleshistoires4874 I guess having family be queer is more of an "issue" over there that they want to erase (not trying to be racist, I'm just unfamilliar). At least where I'm from, white families seem to be more accepting of lgbt stuff than poc families so that's probably the excuse made by non-white anti-lgbt families to pretend that their fam can't be queer too. (it's extra weird because in these kinds of families the lgbt and non-neurotypical people get the most familial trauma)
@@Toiletdeer Yeah, I bet you there are many LGBT+ people in those regions that don't want to admit it because they're scared that they'll get blacklisted by everyone around them. There's even evidence around here in the US that there are homophobes out there that are homosexuals themselves, but don't want to admit it for the same reasons.
yeah, your conclusion is good. the thing about infinitely splitting identities further and further is an issue with identity politics more broadly - i've noticed that it has a tendency towards revelling in the separateness, rather than looking outward and seeking to build solidarity with other oppressed and exploited people in a way that can lead to collective action and mobilisation.
People need to stop identifying as stuff. Just BE. The fewer labels you put on yourself, the fewer reasons you’ll have to feel left out for any reason.
@@micahwright5901 i'm not sure i would go that far. labels are useful because people are oppressed in a real way by capitalism, and those labels help oppressed people find each other. insofar as that is the case, labels have a utility.
labels, i think, have less of a utility when describing separateness and marginalisation in smaller and smaller slivers becomes the point, rather than organising to resist the initial oppression that created the need for the label.
FACTS. i agree that we need labels to a certain extent, but only as a form of self expression, not to play “your identity v mine” dodgeball. if your labels are causing you to actively bother people with different labels, *there’s a problem*. i wish people would actually be as tolerant as they say they are.
i love how that one poster basically said being queer is a white thing and having generational trauma is a latino thing
Yeah, I'm in camp: "Why not both?".
In my opinion there's nothing wrong with making queer (or other kinds) headcanons. I even have my own! It's totally fine to have multifaceted interpretations of media.
However, I will admit it's a tad frustrating when the headcanons either become stereotypical or flanderizing, or when people act like it canonical truth and that you're a bad person for not agreeing with them.
What I don't like is the separation people make between being Colombian and LGBTQIA+, and it does a huge disservice to all the LGBTQIA+ people living in Colombia.
Being Colombian and LGBTQIA+ go together. I'm Latinx living in a Latin American and I like the LGBTQIA+ interpretations, Latin culture and LGBTQIA+ go together
As an asexual and aromantic closeted colombian I agree. However I don't like the associaton people make with religion and national identity, like not being Catholic/Christian makes anybody belong less to the Colombian culture. Like sure, it still has a huge influence, but it's changing and even people that belong to those religions are much more open minded than media likes to represent us
Yes it upsets me that people are just excluding their fellow Columbians who are not straight and/or cis from claiming something not openly explained in the story- but easily metaphorical for being closeted or shunned by family. It's sad, because a queer reading doesn't exclude the nationality of any character..
It's homophobic and racist in and of itself to imply gay people can't be Colombian and Colombian people can't be gay. Good post
You lost me when you said latinx
Yeah just gotta keep watching the underwealming lackluster representation from caracol and RCN I guess
Cosas como estas me hacen cada vez mas feliz de que me alejé de los fandoms y solo disfruto de cosas por mi cuenta o compartiendolas con un pequeñisimo grupo en común, demasiado drama lmao
Young man, you give me hope for humanity. I had thought that capacity in me to be long gone. Thank you.
I've always been confused by this discourse because has anyone ever taken headcanons to THAT extreme?
Like whenever I say *_"MONDO OWADA IS TRANS AND WEARS THOSE BANDAGES AS A BINDER. SORRY GUYS I DONT MAKE THE RULES."_*
That's clearly ironic. Like exaggerated to the point that somehow, I, a 17 year old trans boy has the authority to state whether or not a goddamn Danganronpa character is trans and that no one is allowed to have a different interpretation otherwise.
Sure I like the headcanon, and I feel seen by art where he IS wearing binders and have top scars. I even headcanon some of my favorite characters as Filipino sometimes because I'M Filipino. But I never deny that these headcanons are not meant to be taken as fucking gospel.
So i'm wondering... am I just oblivious to deep fandom culture where they take this as is, completely seriously. Or is it outsiders looking in and completely misinterpreting clearly exaggerated posts?
Or am I some sort of exception to this crazy new norm, I literally do not have any idea.
I agree with you, headcanons are just supposed to be these silly little things we add to characters in our own mind because it's fun or because we see ourselves in them. Like I headcanon bami as enby because I keep forgetting his gender but like I also understand that that's just a silly little me thing.
The internet was made for hot takes, so it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is to have the hottest take.
Thanks for reading my hot take. That's not actually very hot, but oh well.
ayyy i hc Mondo as trans as well🤝
i spend a lot of time on pinterest and when somebody hcs an encanto character they usually just put the sexuality's flag or they put it in between a bunch of other hcs. it's not aggressive at all.
When people start taking things that came ot of 2010´s tumblr this seriuosly we have a problem. Roy Mustang can be a trans man, Bruno can be as gay as you want; because it affects the twelve people that follow your blog, tops. People need to chill
Spoiler: there's latin queer people who lives in families with this kind of generational trauma
Es como que no puede haber un personaje queer si la película no trata sobre ser queer, que desesperante. Como si nos desaparecieramos cuando empiezan las situaciones de nuestras vidas comunes y corrientes que no tienen que ver con la sexualidad y la identidad de género xd
Como una persona bisexual y colombiana, me molesta que la gente lo reduzca todo a la máxima expresión de simpleza
as a brazillian i got scared from that "me molesta" for a second
@Dan_OCD lmao me too but I agree with this person.
no lo pudiste decir de mejor manera! No soy Colombiano pero soy Mexicano. Esto es exactamente lo que siempre me molesta cuando se trata de un personaje queer en una serie o película con temática latina/hispana, que la gente automáticamente dice cosas como "es que su sexualidad/genero no era necesario para la trama"......ugh!!! deberás que se creen que es algo opcional y no algo que es parte de nosotros, de nuestra vida diaria!
Además de el echo de que estadísticamente va a haber por lo menos 1-2 personas queer en una familia. Se quejan de que no es necesario, relevante, o realista.....pero eso es exactamente, REALISTA!
@@Abel-lt5nr Exactamente, tan feliz que estas de acuerdo.
They will only admit it if it's directly focused on a character's non-hetero sexuality, they always assume a male character is in love with the female character though.
Even if 2 characters of the same gender show great love for each other they will deny it because the characters didn't explicitly stated they're gay.
They did that with Luca & Alberto, they denied it even after the writers revealed that Luca was originally gonna be a gay love story instead of the queercoded one we got.
It's just willful ignorance from queerphobes, I do believe Bruno is queercoded, it's not uncommon for families to not talk about the gay relative who became an outcast
This video is so well-done. It's been out for a minute, but I still wanna say it. There's some well-explained theories from sociology and related fields and it's all tied together so well. I've been enjoying learning about subject positions, subjective readings/interpretations of media and how they contribute meaning to said media and so on... and it's just so cool to see these concepts applied to contemporary examples, in an intelligent and well-explained way, and encouraging inclusive discourse. So thanks for this, there were quite a few things to take away here for me. 😊
This is the first video I watched if yours and it is very well spoken and I genuinely feel I’ve learned a lot. Always love learning how to articulate terms and subjects I’m interested in and it’s even better when they’re put in a niche sociological perspective! Definitely not gonna binge your channel..
Here's the kicker - on Twitter a while back? A viral tweet went around verbally castrating Saberspark and others for supporting the diversity of Encanto because "It's Disney," therefore, "not good enough," and if you don't support ACTUAL South American films "you're part of the problem." I had to extract myself from these social medias and these discourses for that exact reason. We want change, yet, when we get something that is a clear indication of that change, it's thrown out because it isn't good enough. Nothing will EVER be good enough for you, Becky.
The thing is, sometimes things just are NOT good enough tho. Like, I'm sorry, but if you're bi and the best Disney can give you is Loki saying "or princes" in a move that you could have blinked or sneezed and you missed it, that's not good enough.
Sometimes, when someone gives you crumbs, you can call it crumbs and not be so thankful that you were given a "slice"
@@AllTheArtsy I don't understand how that's comparable when the topic OP was talking about was cultural diversity. Do you want Disney to only make movies about white people and to only have a white cast?
@@firefancy9928 I want people to not only get or demand representation from Disney
Saberspark also addressed that take in his video of Encanto??? Did the person just not watch the video????
Hey im from Colombia and i was wondering if this about the tweet from Carolina Sanin? If its not im pretty sure its similar. From my understanding the point is you can enjoy whatever you want including encanto but that will only serve as assimilation and personal satisfaction, and all people are asking is for you to have critical thinking as a consumer. Like, you can enjoy encanto but maybe wonder why do u want to support and give money to a company like Disney, and why arent you more invested in actual colombian productions. Of course, these are not mutually exclusive but are sometimes the case.
Personally i dont like disney movies or assimilationist narratives and i avoid that type of media, so it wasnt hard for me to just not watch it, but a lot of people got to enjoy them through other mediums that didnt involve giving disney money.
As a queer Latino, what kinda makes me bothered with some Headcanons is the fact that those headcanons are being made with the queer culture and symbols of The United states and other non-latino countries. I personally don't mind the headcanons outside of just the feeling of weirdness of when people mix the "american" queer-culture with a latino story, since, as a latino I already have an idea of how queer people behave within my culture. (Sorry for any mispelings, english is not my first language, and I hope I can get my point across.)
Sorry, could you please elaborate? I'm also queer and from South America, and I wasn't aware there was a huge difference between both queer cultures. Unless I'm just clueless, really (which is a huge possibility)
I'm not really good with words, so I apologize if i'm unable to explain my point well.
If you look closely into how culture affects the behaviours of queer people in different cultures, you will be able to see the differences between queer people from the united estates and other non-latino countries and queer people from latino countries. Things such as inside jokes, the way they dress, the way they speak, what they consider to be "affeminate" or "masculine", etc. I hope this awnser helps.
replying mostly for notifications!
Anyone have examples of cultural behaviors and in-jokes and whatnot among both respective queer communities, for reference on what to include and what to avoid? No pressure to reply of course just hoping to get right all i can when i write them.
@@peeblekitty5780 So I am personally not Latina and can't speak on that but I noticed one thing people were discussing online was Encanto's use of color as a representation for how queer a character is. Specifically, in What Else Can I Do there's a lot of changes in both Isabella's surroundings and her dress going from a traditional fem color (pink) to more rainbow/multicolored (I believe the colors of her dress are the same as the Columbian flag). A lot of people used this as a visual representation for her coming out as in America, colorful stuff is very strongly linked to the queer community, if that makes sense? Whereas in a lot of other cultures, that shift in colors doesn't really mean anything. I am personally Asian and lots of traditional clothing is incredibly vibrant and multicolored so I didn't think anything of that scene whereas other Americans (specifically white Americans) may have interpreted it differently.
@@wiseathena97 interesting thank you! /gen
I've never dreaded a youtube video so much
Why can’t people just accept that it’s ok for other people have different headcanons then them when they seem perfectly capable of accepting that in other fandoms?