224 Predator Billet Flywheel Install on the Billet Rod Wildcat Flat Top Predator 224 Engine Build
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2024
- This is the 224 Predator engine Billet Flywheel Install on the Predator 224 Billet rod, Wildcat flat top piston, Banzai 265 Camshaft 224 Predator engine build we did over the 3 part series. The Billet Flywheel I used in this video is the part # SK-200 SlipStream Billet Flywheel. I'm not sponsored by anyone and I pay the same price for parts as you do so I search online and find the best price with shipping I can. Sometimes I find a good price on parts yet the shipping is padded so I just shop elsewhere to get the most for my money. I always suggest everyone do the same.
The Predator 224 engine is one of the best harbor freight engines to ever come out in my opinion. The 58mm stroke crankshaft and the DUCAR reinforced block are worth the price of the engine alone.
The Slipstream flywheel works on the Predator 224 but as a better option I would suggest using the ARC billet flywheel as it leaves more thread exposed for the flywheel nut and eliminates the need to change to a different style nut for an electric starter. (unless you intend to have the option for an external electric start anyway). Either option will lap to the taper on the crankshaft without issue.
ARC Billet: www.amazon.com/ARC-Billet-Fly...
I added just a bit of advance to mine during the SlipStream billet flywheel install by moving the billet flywheel about 1/4 of the timing slot clockwise but it did seem a bit high in time. After checking with some trusted online resources I found that most guys are finding their SlipStream billet flywheel to have around 34 degrees advance with a timing key at "0". Now 34 degrees is fine if you're running a 212 or 224 methanol fuel engine but I'm gonna feed this 224 Predator engine build on race gas. I'll be moving my flywheel position back to just a little below "0". If I was running a flywheel key it would be in the "retard" position to move the magnet on the flywheel counter-clockwise, reducing the ignition timing just a bit. I prefer around 28 degrees on a Race Gas engine and this Predator 224 is going to be fed on Race Gas around 98+ octane at the least. My luck has been that here, anything much over 28 degrees will start getting some detonation and hot spots in the combustion chamber at 650 feet above sea level. Remember, even high octane 100 Race Gasoline is not as forgiving as Methanol fuel when it comes to preignition and hot spots. So try to keep the timing at or below 28 degrees on your Predator 224 build for gasoline. Your Predator 224 will thank you, and your pocket book.
ARC Racing put out a notice on Bob's 4 cycle 4cycle.com/karting/ that the ARC # 6619 Billet Flywheel also "catches nice" with the new 224 Predator engine starter cup. The main reason I wanted to try the SlipStream Billet flywheel first is because I thought it would be the least likely to work on the 224 Predator engine. As it turns out, it fits and works. I would like to see it catch ALL the threads on the flywheel nut but it doesn't. I may change the stock 224 Predator engine flywheel nut out for an aftermarket soon as I don't trust the factory unit as much as I would an aftermarket starter nut. I personally believe that most any Honda clone flywheel will work on the Predator 224 engine and will likely try the ARC 6619 for the next one to see if it catches more of the flywheel nut. Again, I wanted to try the SlipStream Billet Flywheel on the Predator 224 engine first as I figured it would be the most likely Billet Flywheel to NOT work but it does. It's Honda clone parts for your 224 Predator engine build.
Updated 8/14/2022
I have a video out now on tuning the Mikuni clone VM22 carburetor on the Predator 224 build that covers pilot jet adjustment and replacement along with some good to know info about how to determine the pilot jet size you need for your Mikuni VM22 clone carburetor. There's also a pdf in the description for future reference on the Mikuni VM22 and clone carburetor I recommend everyone keep for future reference. Please read the description on that one. It has recommendations for jetting, where to start out based on your altitude and what pilot jet sizes you'll likely need for your VM22 Mikuni clone carburetor. Remember your Predator 224 will need to be fed properly in order to work for you like it should. Please read the details, your 224 Predator engine will thank you.
VM22 Mikuni clone carburetor link: www.amazon.com/ORAEVY-Perform...
Thanks, Chris "Kentucky Fried Fixes"
#kartracing #predator224 #predator - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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EXCELLENT info on the wider gap
Thank you Numa!
You have been helping out with my build a ton, thanks man
Glad to have you here Tyler. You're Welcome.
Good job.I bought a 224cc engine today so I can hook it up.
Good deal Sam! I think you're gonna love the 224. Can't wait to see some videos!
Hey Chris what’s the reason of overlapping the fly wheel getting into this flywheel thing, much help would be appreciated🙌
Hi GTA! Great question! When I lap the flywheel to the crankshaft with valve grinding compound I'm looking at two things. The first is to make sure the taper on the crankshaft matches with the taper on the flywheel ID. The second is to lap in the polished finish to ensure the taper keeps the flywheel and crankshaft mated, this eliminates all of the torque normally placed against the crankshaft key. In turn you can often remove the crankshaft key entirely as those can destroy a billet flywheel. When the flywheel and crankshaft have a perfectly matched lapped fit, there's no need for the flywheel damaging key. Hope that makes sense! Thanks my friend!
What would advancing the billet flywheel 4 degres do
Hi Ranger677! A timing advance in combination with the correct parts and fuel will make a lot of added power. When the timing is advanced it fires the fuel/air mix earlier on the power stroke. It gives it more time to burn the fuel in the cylinder. This model flywheel I'm using is supposed to be around 32 to 34 degrees with a stock timing key. A 4 degree advance key will likely get it up to around 36 to 38 degrees advance. It really depends on the billet flywheel maker. Different brands will have differing advance "built in". A few degrees advance is a good thing, even for a stock engine. The biggest benefit of advancing the timing is found if you run Methanol fuel, but race gas will also benefit from a little extra advance too.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thanks for the quick reply. Im trying to figure out why my built engine want to take off. It not the carb. So i didnt know if it was the timing. I
Hello, I installed a slipstream on a ghost 212 and the starter cup is too short for the ears to engage. Your starter cup on the 224 appears longer. Any suggestions? Thank you. Dave.
Hi Dave! The starter cup on the 224 is definitely longer than the 212. Just a few things to check, make sure they sent you the correct taper for the flywheel ID to match your crank taper, sometimes what you receive is not exactly what you ordered. If the taper is correct I'd check to see if it has any spacers between the starter recoil and the housing. You can adjust the recoil in or out by removing or adding spacers. Also make sure the cup is aligned with the flywheel correctly. It has a certain position it must be in to install correctly. It's a simple mistake that's easy to overlook when you get into a hurry, but it's also easy to correct. It's always a good idea to check the small stuff first. You'll likely find it's something simple causing the issue.
You nailed it with the taper. Turns out the Slipstream SK100 does not work on the Ghost. The SK200 is what one needs if purchasing the Slipstream. I called EC Carburetors (talked to mark who was very helpful) and he pointed me in the right direction. If one has a predator the gold slipstream works. If it’s a ghost, you need the silver flywheel. Apparently the crank is a Ducar in the ghost. Not the crank that’s in the Predator 212.
Thanks again! Problem solved!!
@@davidverrilli196 Good deal David! That SK200 is a good flywheel.
I'm ignat about this hot rod small engine stuff, would a billet flywheel benefit a stock engine in any way?
Hi Numa, the billet flywheels are much lighter so a stock engine would rev faster or accelerate quicker. The main reason most guys use the billet flywheel is to keep from exploding the stock flywheel at high rpm. There are a lot of advantages to the billet. I probably wouldn't need a billet flywheel on my tiller though.
What carb is that one ?
Hi K M! This one has the VM22 Mikuni clone carb. It's not branded but I picked this one up online. There should be a link in the "How to tune" video they're on sale at the moment.
What offset key degree do you suggest
Hi L.A.M! For the 224 build on gas I'd recommend keeping the timing down to around 28 degrees. If you use the slipstream or the ARC, those are supposed to be around 32 from the factory with a stock flywheel key. You could use a 6 degree key and simply reverse it to set the timing back a little for gas. Or if you're running Methanol in yours it would be fine to advance the timing up to around 36 degrees IMO. Basic timing for gas/race gas around 28/32 degrees, for Methanol/additives around 34-38+ degrees.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Thanks question 60T rear sprocket 35 chain what tooth clutch straight chain would I need to hit 60mph. I have 224 header pipe governor wheel removed mikuni carb arc flywheel and 18lb springs
@@l.a.m7645 It really depends on the size of your rear tire and what maximum RPM you want to turn.
@@l.a.m7645 Here's a calculator to help out: www.csgnetwork.com/minibikepotentialspeedcalc.html
What starter cup was used
Hi Nik! I used the same 224 starter cup as the blower housing is wider on the 224 engines. You could replace the blower housing with one from a 212 and use the short cup as well.
Can you put a link out for that flywheel?
The Slipstream flywheel works but the ARC will give you more exposed thread for the flywheel nut. I'll update the description after I finish this reply.
@@l.a.m7645 Hi L.A.M I like the free shipping at the jungle site. Plus if a viewer uses the link they send the channel a small percentage for placing the link. This will sponsor the upcoming giveaways to Subscribers. It's a fact that some online sites underprice their parts and tack on lots of shipping which makes the price of the parts much higher in the end. I don't like to advertise parts site. I paid $110 for the slipstream at a parts site that I won't mention here, and then was billed $20+ shipping. Total cost for the $110 flywheel was $130+.
What size socket for the nut that holds starter cup and flywheel?
Hi L.A.M! I use a 7/8 socket on mine , I think the nut is actually a 22mm metric size.
Just sent 2 Dynocams CL2 back to them to be reground. They would not work in my 224. The journal that fits into the side cover is too booku.
Oh yea, that Predator non-hemi cam won't fit. It's weird that somebody somewhere thought it was a good idea to make those a few thousandths larger than standard Honda clone size. I think I'm gonna order another Banzai 265 for the other engine. I liked the clearance out of the box on that one and I have some 1.3 rockers around here somewhere....
@@KentuckyFriedFixes so the 224 is non hemi correct?
@@igokarts4510 It's a non hemi, but it's completely different than the 212 Predator non hemi engines. The 224 is mostly clone parts inside except the piston. For some reason they used the 212 pistons with the .716 wrist pins but the large end of the rod is the 1.180 Honda clone size. Weird they'd have the connecting rod with two different ends, crank side fits Honda clones and the piston side fits the larger Predator wrist pin. These online sellers need to update their listings pretty quick or they're going to get a lot of returns...
@@KentuckyFriedFixes whatcha plan on doing with the engine? Kart? Mini bike, bad ass pressure washer?
@@igokarts4510 I started leaving hints at the end of my videos as to what may be in the pipes....😉
Any recommendations on a flywheel with a 3 magnet charging system that can handle a governor delete/higher rpm’s. Looking to put it on a predator 224 in a minibike. I like your channel. Subscribed. Thanks
I've not experimented with adding a charging system. All the billet flywheels I've looked at don't seem to have anything. I'm going to look into this to see what I can find and get back with you. Thanks!
I’ve heard mention on various forums that there is a tillotson aluminum 3 magnet flywheel that can handle 8,500 rpm but also read that it will not fit predator cranks.
Nothing billet I've found will work. ARC makes a 6679 with a ring gear for electric start but they don't have anything to work with charging coil(s). Kinda odd they'd do that. All the guys I know that have run the billet flywheels have not tried to install a charging system with one. If you can get it worked out you may be the first. Seems like adding a few magnets to the inside of a flywheel shouldn't be a tall order? These newer flywheels have 2 neodymium magnets that are pretty strong but the poles are likely turned the same direction. I don't know though? If I had a charging coil laying around I'd throw one behind the Billet flywheel and try it out just to see what happens....Let me know if you come up with anything, I may push forward a bit when I get the time I may have a charging coil on something around here... I'm curious now, you've infected me. LOL! Thanks!
It does seem quite odd to me that no one makes a performance flywheel that has charge magnets.
I guess I have another question for you. How unsafe is it to rev a stock flywheel to 6-7k rpm? I’ve seen flywheel fins let loose on an old Vespa shifter and get sent right through the shroud with enough force to cause real trauma. Man was I glad I wasn’t riding the scooter when it happened.
Also, thanks for your responses 👍
By “stock flywheel” I meant stock type flywheel with charge magnets.
Mr KFF. In your honest opinion should I go with this 224 max or the regular 212 I’m going to be putting 1 of them
On a Ryan Ren o thin dethatcher.. They run Honda Gfx 160s. On their new models. I’m replaceing a old ic 7hp Commercial Briggs.. agai. This will just be going on a lawn dethatcher. So no need for “racey” stuff. Though I’d ask your opinion. Thanks in Advance sir .. great vids by the way. 👍🏻
B MA, If it's not going to power a mini bike or go kart, there's really no need for the extra power or performance parts of the 224 Predator. In my video list there's one on the 179cc 4.8HP LCT engines at Surplus Center for $49.95 plus shipping. They're suitable for most applications at a much lower price.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I get me a nice discount from neighbor. 212 run me $100. 224 run me $149 .. like said they run GX 160s on there new models. I was thinking 212 or 224 be fine.
@@bma4203 Good deal. That's a great price on those!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I just need to find some pulleys as the ones that are on old engine are 1”shaft…. Nothing can be easy. Excellent vids sir..
@@bma4203 You can find an adapter that takes a 3/4" shaft up to 1" for around $20 online. Either amazon or Ebay should have what you need and you can keep the old 1" pulley if it's still good.
Can you tell me what the stock timing advance is on the 224 compared to the 212 that I believe is 18° (correct me if wrong)
Hi Josh! Stock flywheel timing can vary a lot. You're right, they can be anywhere from 18 to 24 on the ones I've checked. I usually don't bother with the stock cast flywheels for performance engines. A good rule of thumb for timing though is gasoline runs good around 26*, race gas 28-32* and Methanol 32-38* depending on your engine combo. There are times though especially during break in where it's to your advantage to lower the ignition timing on a high compression engine for the break in. I'm kinda "frugal" so on some of the high compression builds, I like to lower the timing and break them in on gasoline rather than race fuel. After the engine is broken in, I'll advance the timing and give it the high octane juice.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Thank you very much for the quick reply.
How do i fix my 224 engine it’s vibrating alot
Check your flywheel retaining nut. Mine was loose.
What size impact driver are you using
Hi Mark, this one is a 1/4 Bauer cheapie from Harbor Freight. It's rated for 2,000 in/lbs max but I seriously doubt it puts out that much. It's probably less than 1000 in/lbs.
Do you have to lap a pvl flywheel?
Hi Jon! I would. It's to make sure the mating surfaces have a perfect fit.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thank you !
@@jonfisher5405 Welcome Jon!
That flywheel is just like the billet rods. They're so pretty and you can't see them when it's all together.
I'll end up using a GX200 aluminum flywheel that I have loose at the moment for the 224. Just happy that I don't have to buy another flywheel. I don't run that high of RPM but they are worth having on the engine. 2 less pounds to spin.
They went wider on the blower housing and starter cup because they went 3/4" taller with the fan. I compared and did a rough measurement versus an old clone fan. Better cooling for a utility engine? Sure. But it's not important for a mini bike application. I'm going with a clone starter cup and blower housing to finish off my 224. Already have them laying around.
I agree it's a shame to hide all the pretty stuff where nobody can see it. My first choice was the Tillotson aluminum flywheel, those are cast too but they're spin tested to 8500 rpm. Mine had a flaw that I wasn't comfortable with though. As things progressed I guess I kinda wanted the billet flywheel on this one as plans sometimes change. I wondered about those cooling fins, they did seem different but I never paid any attention to them as they had to go regardless. I think using the standard blower housing and starter cup is a smart move. RoyalJZ put one of these on a mini bike and he said he didn't like the blower housing that it stuck out too much. I can see that.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Hmmm RoyalJZ...I think I mentioned this in the comment section on his video. Yeah you lose some room if the foot pegs are under the blower housing.