What you need to know before building a Predator 224
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มี.ค. 2022
- The Predator 224 is a “stroker” engine and the build needs to be done differently than a 196/212cc build and we can’t just slap parts together.
Bust out the Dremel and take your time.
We have a section just for the Predator 224
www.ombwarehouse.com/performa...
Holy crap for the longest time I was trying to figure out if I needed to clearance the balancing weights after buying 2 different rods and a flat top piston. Thanks for the knowledge man🙏
I can totally do this! Thanks for the boost in confidence Mr.Goat!!
I just ordered one of those clear support plates. I'm looking forward to using it. Thank you
Great information.I always enjoy watching your videos.
Jody was shouting you out on his channel love watching both channels very informative
I really like the ball brings
And I see them lasting a long time
Arizona says keep the good info coming. .
Great job.
Hi Eric. Nice video.
I returned the first one because it had a bottom end noise. The second one runs great. I put it in a bicycle
finally i found a video that helps
I just did this to mine 2 weeks ago runs great
That is how it gets done! Good job!
i am doing the carb and how did you get the vacume line on the carburetor like where it usually goes on the plastic box from stock? mine isnt getting fuel
Love it!
Why didn't you just nip a little off the dipper instead of grinding a hole into the bottom of your block???😢
Does it absolutely have to be polished and sanded smooth after clearance?
i am doing the carb and how did you get the vacume line on the carburetor like where it usually goes on the plastic box from stock? mine isnt getting fuel
You have a link for those support braces for the side? I’m working on my 224 and it’s killing me taking apart putting back together to grind more. Thanks for the awesome videos!!!
Plss that would bee good
@@denhamdaves not sure if your still needing it but it’s called a crankshaft tool and they have them at OMB warehouse for like $20
@@JVScustomsthank you 🙏🏽
i am doing the carb and how did you get the vacume line on the carburetor like where it usually goes on the plastic box from stock? mine isnt getting fuel
I’m building a predator 224 and I have a forged aluminum flywheel, 22lb springs, vm22, billet rod and I have a Super X 265 cam not installed yet, after i clearance the cam to fit would I have to upgrade anything with my rockers or push rods? Or are the stock ones fine?
did it need to be shimmed any at all?
Grinding on that crank balancer, does that effect the vibration of the motor when complete!
What RPM do you want it balanced. Piston engines will never be balanced, never ever. You can only balance it for a certain engine speed range.
You said you clearances both sides of the crankshaft journal for balance, why not rotationally sand the material between the cam lobes for balance as well, rather than just clearancing the contact spot?
That is a hrsSt idea, just not practical. We want to leave as much material as possible on the cam for strength. Keep in mind the cam is cast iron
If that was a billet cam there would be no issues, but billet cams do not have compression releases and I am not strong enough to pull the engine over without that!
We also are not concerned with cam balance as it moves at half the rpm as the crank and it would have zero effect on the balance of the engine. That is all related to the crank, rod, and piston
Hey Eric ! It says "Ducar" on this block ? Is a Predator 224 block really a Ducar block????
Predator is just a name and not a manufacturer. Ducat makes these engines and they also make Tillotson engines
Do I have to worry about anything if I'm just gonna remove the governor and add a vm22 and header. I bought a aluminum flywheel. Is the stock rod a concern?
The stock rod is not designed for higher than governed rpm use. They typically starve for oil at 5000-5500 rpms. That is when it tries to weld itself to the crank and break.
A VM22 carb is a performance carb that wants to be on a performance engine. You should consider a billet rod and a bigger cam. The nylon gear on the stock cam does not like high rpm’s or heavy spring pressure.
@@TheGrayGoatGarage thanks for the info. I appreciate the work you're doing for the small engine community. Any suggestions on a mild cam and rod that dosent need too much clearencing?
What's that do t the balance of it ? ✌
Looks like you polished the block inside and out. Looks great.
What head gasket are you going with?
If I am close to zero deck like I am showing here, I will use a .027” steel shim gasket to get the required .030” piston the head clearance
www.ombwarehouse.com/dj-1310p-27-predator-head-gasket-027-70mm/
@@TheGrayGoatGarage I will probably use the same. Thanks!
I laughed when you said seek professional help. My wife tells me that all the time.lol😂
I know you say email you at OMB I have and have not had any reply. If I remove the martial from the bare block that the oil sensor was bolted to, will it weaken the block?
I try not to work 24/7 anymore and emailing the warehouse is the best way.
That why I can spend time with family and work on my own stuff!
As long as you don’t go too deep and try to get .030” clearance you will be fine. Go slow, measure a few times. Don’t try to be “one and done”! I may install a rod and piston several times before I am satisfied. Be patient and do the work!
Eric, it looks like that 224 block only has 2 dowel pins for the side cover. Is that correct ? I'm I seeing that correctly?
Yes. All stock blocks use 2 dowel pins
Your at zero deck with a flattop piston and stock length rod? I measured my 224 with stock rod and stock piston at 2 thou in the hole at max piston rock using a dial indicator. From others I’ve seen using a stock length billet rod and a flattop piston put them around .008" above deck. Maybe they use a different flattop piston with different wrist pin diameter and piston height.
Just trying to find the right combination of parts before ordering so I don’t end up with parts I can’t use or won’t work properly.
I am using the stock length 3.303” clone rod but have the taller .570”pin height piston to get to near zero deck. I did not even measure how far in the hole as it is so close to zero deck
I am also going to try the +.020” rod and the .550” piston. The results should be the same though
There is nothing consistent with any Chinese engine and every engine will need to get built differently. I am wanting to use parts that do not require machine work to get installed. I don’t have the equipment to mill a piston top…like most people!
@@TheGrayGoatGarage did you ever get to see how far in the hole the +.020 rod put you? Mine looks pretty close to zero deck but it’s my first time building any engine so I want to be sure
Where do I get that clear tool for the side cover?
www.ombwarehouse.com/camshaft-installation-tool.html
Will I have to clearance the cam if I am using a stock rod?
We now have cams that are pre-clearanced
www.ombwarehouse.com/performance-parts/predator-performance-parts/predator-224-max-performance/cams/
The stock rod will clear most GX200/clone cams, but stock rods do not like the additional rpms from aftermarket cams.
If you are removing the governor please consider a billet rod and flywheel!
I cannot find your tool on omb warehouse where is it ?
This?
www.ombwarehouse.com/camshaft-installation-tool.html
❤
Are there preclearance for both the cam and rod for the 224 now, for sale?
Only pre-clearanced cams are available
@@TheGrayGoatGarage Other question I have is, with orders over 200 you are eligable for free shipping. By chance do you know how fast the free shipping is relative to other paid options?
@@prestigemaster6610 free shipping is ground shipping. You would need to pay for quicker shipping
What size taper bolt do I need for the oil sensor hole?
7/16 I believe
What is the ring gap for regular gas for the flat top piston
I like to keep the top ring between .008” and .010”
The second ring at .010” to .018”
The oil control at .010” to .030”
@@TheGrayGoatGarage thank you
@@TheGrayGoatGarage I want to make sure it's correct before I put my engine back together
Any reason all my clearances are good with the head off, but when I put the head on and spin the engine by hand it sounds like somethings tapping/hitting? The sound is every rotation, but like I said it only happens with the head on
You must check EVERYTHING! Is the rod hitting the inside of the case or the cam? Is the piston hitting the crank? It is is every rotation it is not the valves. Now it the time to check it!
@@TheGrayGoatGarage no see that’s the thing, everything clears fine, it’s just a very slight tapping sound. It doesn’t do it with just the rod, piston, crank and cam in. Only does it with the head. Which confuses me because all of the TH-cam videos I’ve watched on clearancing have all been done with the head off, they never checked with the head on or at least didn’t mention/ show it in the video
@@TheGrayGoatGarage I think I’m just gonna scrap it and pick up another and keep it stock I’ve been messing with this block for just about 2 weeks now. At least 5 hours a day, I even worked on it for 10 hours straight one day, still can’t figure it out. There is nothing making any contact with anything my cam center is less than a quarter inch thick now, my lobes are ground near in half, I’ve grinded out damn near an 1/8th inch of the top and bottom of the bore, my crank ears are ground rounded almost to the journal, the counterweights are definitely completely off balance and the sound is still happening. I give up, I could’ve saved over a grand if I just trusted my gut from the get go lmao
@@DatHondaBoi223 timing wrong? it could be hitting the valves
@@Shaun-hp2yz I never figured it out but I’ve been running it for 2 months now seems to do great haha, idk what I was hearing but something was definitely tapping, maybe it was just the sound of the valves opening and closing?
Wouldn't shaving some off the cam throw the balance off?
Nope. The cam is not a balanced part of the rotating assembly. Have nothing to do with engine balance
@@TheGrayGoatGarage ok I didn't know, but questioned it. Thanks
Is that shaft RH or LH threaded? thanks
All of the threads on this crank are right-hand threads. There are no left-hand threads anywhere on these engines
@@TheGrayGoatGarage thanks
Any part #’s on the rod and piston
Here is the rod www.ombwarehouse.com/billet-rod-3_303-billet-rod.html and use this piston www.ombwarehouse.com/predator-212-70mm-flat-top-piston-with-rings-stock-pin-height-570.html Please note that this rod will not work with the stock piston
I need an arc rod
For the 224
If using the stock piston, use this rod www.ombwarehouse.com/6773-ducar-212cc-3-303-billet-rod/
If you want to bump the compression with a flat top piston, we have this combo
www.ombwarehouse.com/predator-224-flat-top-piston-and-billet-rod.html
@@TheGrayGoatGarage thanks
Hey gray goat, i built a 212 'NON HEMI' with the HOT 265 cam from GPS and totally forgot to check clearance, i spun it alot and it spun freely did not hear anything hitting, ran it for a little no problems but was wondering are there and clearance issues with 'non hemis' and that cam? thanks.
The
Non-Hemi Pred 212 typically does mot have any clearance issues. The cranks have less material on the top of the crank throw.
We should always check, but chances are you will be fine!
@@TheGrayGoatGarage Thank you alot!
It seem like an allusions, at the start you spun the crank and that engine, with the rod and piston just flowed around smooth ly. Now everone wanted that. Only to tell us all, you left the rings out. What a D.A.
Hi Chuck,
Thanks for the feedback.
This was done just to check the clearance inside the block. The rings do not matter!
If you can make a video and link it here that may be helpful for others. Please share the link to your video. Thank you
Everybody has been saying these engines will be the new best thing, I've returned two in the last week and eventually went with a 212 at harbor freight cause both my 224s would not run right no matter what I could do. Valve lash was set correctly several times and they both could never run right from stock, just watch out guys.
Mine runs great!
Mine ain’t never had issues
Mine hits 70mph on 12-44t 26 springs carb flywheel . Had it since march of this year. Sounds like you mightve been rushing something
@@s13__anthony76 i am doing the carb and how did you get the vacume line on the carburetor like where it usually goes on the plastic box from stock? mine isnt getting fuel
@@s13__anthony76bro.. show me the way!! I'm tryna get mine like that was well. I just bought the engine yesterday, and I want that kind of speed from mine as well
Do you know of anyone that does porting and polishing.
Paul's Karts does but it's like $500 minimum if he even touches it 😅Just buy a Dremel and go @ it . These heads are still cheap and available and there are plenty of head porting videos sharing knowledge.
I believe DynoCams can port your head.
You can do it at home if you have Dremel. That is what I use
Boy i don't like grinding on a cam what so ever. You know for what they're sticking us for on the cost of a replacement cam they should be able to clean them up, to justify that higher cost on them😢. And you know as well as anyone that cam is going to fail, not if it may fail it's when it's going to fail😢.
DynoCams did not offer clearanced cams when that video was made. We do have cams now that are clearanced and have a thinner decompression spring
www.ombwarehouse.com/performance-parts/predator-performance-parts/predator-224-max-performance/cams/
Most engines with 58mm cranks can use these cams with zero clearance issues
OK...Hold On.... You're doing all this clearancing on the block. This is because of all the aftermarket internals you are putting in or because it needs all of this work straight from the factory for the stock internals to work properly? I saw the cam had a metal gear and I believe these come from the factory with a plastic geared cam. So the cam is aftermarket. I saw ARC on the rod so that appears to be aftermarket. Is the crank aftermarket too? If all the internals are aftermarket and the 224 is a stroker motor, does anyone now make a complete kit of parts sized to fit properly in this motor without having to do all the work you had to do? A Cam, A Crank, Rod/dipper and all of that sized correctly for the 224 block?
I am holding on! LOL
The clearancing is required when building a performance engine. Even engines without the 58mm crank can require some clearancing.
I used an aftermarket cam and connecting rod but used the stock crank.
The ARC connecting rods will keep the engine from destroying itself at higher than governed rpms. The ARC rod is physically larger and that is why the block needs to be clearanced.
Every DynoCams cam comes with a card that tells you to check the clearance between the lobes regardless if the engine has a 54, 55, or 58mm crank.
The Chinese tolerances on these engines are all over the place and all clearances must be checked when building any engine. It does not matter if the engine is a 196, 208, 212, 223, 224, or 236cc engine. It still must be checked!
Because of the varying tolerances in these engines, the aftermarket cannot make one part that fits every engine. As an engine builder, you must check EVERYTHING that is put into any engine.
If you are taking apart a 224 and putting it back together with all of the stock parts, there are no issues. Everything will fit.
If you are wanting to build a performance engine you have to do some work!
@@TheGrayGoatGarage Roger Roger. I didn't know the extent of the mods you were doing or if the market had answered the call and come up with a "level kit" that was a straight replacement with little to no fitment needed. Because IF a company had done that....well...they would be millionaires overnight.
::: hint hint :::
Damn, $55 is a great price for that block.
China
you should start building these and selling them who wouldn’t want a GGG engine made from the goat him self
Thank you. I just don’t have time to build my own stuff!
There is a lot of satisfaction in building your own engine. What a great feeling when you do the first start!
@@TheGrayGoatGarage so true!
Why do you say that that Plastic Side Cover deal is only for ONE Engine Build? Confusing. You say that if you're building more than ONE Engine to sacrifice a Side Cover.
The plastic piece is acrylic and brittle. It is a great tool for doing a few engines but is not designed to last forever. Anyone building a lot of engines and wanting repeatable results would want something more substantial
@@TheGrayGoatGarage Oh, I see. Thanks, Bud.
Yikes grinding away camshaft like that? I think better to just buy prebuilt GHOST or similar.
It separates the men from the boys!
Hahaha!
So whose going to start selling Blocks pre-clearanced for everything lol
Lol!
Your not Jody! Silly guy 😂
I want to be Jody when I grow up!
It's hilarious how serious and over complicated people make these engines. My 8 year old nephew can do this in his sleep. Super simple. No advanced skill needed.
You just need ingenuity and patience, some people just need extra help especially if they are timid taking a grinder to things.
The Wildcat 223 looks to be a Much Stronger block then the Predator 224. An the Wildcat has a Steel Cam gear the predator 224 has plastic cam gear smh.
omb worst company ever.
Thank you for your comment. Can you explain further why you think this?
As a keyboard warrior I am sure it is easy for you to bash a company hiding behind a fake screen name. What is your name? What company do you own? Do you have a TH-cam channel?
We are always willing to learn from professionals how things should be handled! Do you do consulting work too?
OMB is my go to.
fr4dav
th-cam.com/play/PLatBUqXIPJGg77ODNDckYbK6hiRP-ERW8.html
Doin a 224 myself little by little need to save More money to get more parts @cincyminibikelife