Big Dyno Numbers With a Blown Engine ~ Predator 224cc Max Performance Stage 4
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มี.ค. 2023
- Today we get our built 224cc Predator in the garage. This engine has been smoking from the breather tube for a while so its time for a rebuild. We dyno it first to see what kind of power its putting down. Then we find some big damage! We rebuild and dyno again. What numbers will it make on the dyno?!?!
~Parts Used On This Build~
Moflow Billet Head 18cc - bit.ly/3FBYX3X
Moflow Billet Head 14cc - bit.ly/400Ku9Q
Stage 4 Head - bit.ly/2RiYBWK
Billet Rod - bit.ly/2Jr5HVm
Billet Flywheel - bit.ly/3scRGAg
70mm Flat Top Piston - bit.ly/3opq7lV
Billet Rod For Flat Top Piston - bit.ly/3ulIVq9
Fire 265 Cam - bit.ly/3HwY9MH
Gauge 1.2 Ratio Rockers - bit.ly/3yFOkaP
Billet Side Cover 6057 - bit.ly/2Jtikzf
Cut To Length Push Rods - bit.ly/34bHpwe
24mm Mikuni Kit - bit.ly/31TsUWm
Mikuni Velocity Stack - bit.ly/38VQ3Li
Silver Billet Valve Cover - bit.ly/3HqKB5p
Black Billet Valve Cover - bit.ly/32WGyPj
Valve Cover Spacer For Stock Valve Cover - bit.ly/34ffrj2
Clear Valve Cover - bit.ly/2JsuFn6
Build Your Own Header Kit - bit.ly/2NDPdM9
Top Plate - bit.ly/3buiBOs
Spark Plug 3910X - bit.ly/3qCKjCk
Jet, Air Filter, Air Filter Adapter Kit - bit.ly/3kZ96wr
Billet Cup Washers - bit.ly/2Fg1pAG
MB200 Mini Bike - bit.ly/2OutchV
Merch & Events - bit.ly/33YbmtO
Check Out Go Power Sports for all your Go kart needs! bit.ly/2viX9vP
Parts & Tools used on the channel - amazon.com/shop/redbeardsgarage
Quantum Machinery- Siegmund Welding Table - bit.ly/36PHm6G
- Nargesa CC60 Bender - bit.ly/2xWDVxj
Prime Weld Tig 225x - amzn.to/3L4U3MG
Prime Weld MIG180- amzn.to/3KVUPvn
Amsoil Affiliate - bit.ly/3TWtrmM
Benchmark Abrasives (cut-off wheels, flap discs..) bit.ly/2SENg4f save 10% REDBEARD10
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Red Beard's Garage
P.O. Box 572
Sweetwater, TN 37874
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*********Disclaimer*********
Please do not try to re-enact or recreate anything you see in these videos. We are trained professionals. Red Beards Garage does not take any responsibility for injury's created by doing so.
#RBGKarts #RedBeardsGarage - บันเทิง
That is the coolest valve cover I've ever seen for this engine !
No Red, you’re the champ. I was super excited when you announced this series, as I’m an engineer. This is freaking awesome dude. Keep up the good work my friend!
I like watching your builds as I am a retired director of engineering over one of the largest companies in the world and an ASE certified mechanic.
Before and after dyno tests never get old! Thank you for sharing this.
Cant wait for the big blocks!
Can't wait to see some of these big block builds on the dyno!!
I love the way he says “real nice”
Do a video on rebalancing the reciprocating assembly after adding a different rod and piston .
Can't wait the 420-460cc engine on the Dyno😁
Love the dyno videos buddy I love seeing how much these small engines can do on a dyno🤘
You and me both!
@@RedBeardsGarage me too glad to see you got that
Awesome video as always! I can't believe she was putting out over 17hp with a split block and a blown head gasket!
R.I.P old 224! Hold on tight new 224 it's gonna be a bumpy ride!🤙
It's so nice to actually see dyno data on these smaller engines. I'm amazed that thing made 17hp in the condition it was in!
But is that all you want it for?
A hp number?
Thats not the point of a dyno run.
Best channel on TH-cam hands down. I love this road to HP series and cant wait to see the MB 200 get put back together and tested!
Much appreciated! Should have the parts this week to finish it
Thanks for the videos @0.75 audio speed, it allows us old dudes to keep up.
Feel like ruining, I mean fixing a stock 224 block?.. So maybe... Drill the head bolt bores all the way down into the crankcase, tap, then studs. Yes balance! Out of balance rotating assembles trash parts and engines, plus waste power. Thank you Red for this vid!
Get a wiseco piston and a long rod to reduce side-to-side forces, it will help the piston to focus the force more directly to the crank.
BIG BLOCK TIME!!
From a failure diagnosis standpoint, that looks like a classic case of thermal expansion difference between an aluminum block and a steel sleeve. Not something that happens overnight naturally, but a cyclical effect. That is an impressive power level nonetheless, especially for one coming apart (almost literally) at the seams!
Bro I love how you dyno before and after everything at every opportunity it is super helpful knowledge!
Your the man on these motors. love to watch you do that stuff.
Lol you put out this video 2 days after our vintage car blow up 😂
When your road to horsepower series is complete please consider releasing a dvd for sale showing it from start to finish.
Hey Redbeard, you ought to try going up to the VM28 Mikuni flat slide before you swap to the billet head to take advantage of your current big valve head. You might even break 19hp with the VM28. A lot of 24mm Mikuni guys would love to see the difference on the dyno before taking on the $150 charge to swap to the slightly bigger carb.
This video was fun thanks for your time and the information
Those darn sleeved cylinders....they're not all they're cracked up to be ;).Seriously though,that is just weird,and must've been a behind the sleeve problem as a 'prototype' and nothing they'd see after.We appreciate all you do to help us build,and to save us troubles ahead by showing the better way.TY.
Red, you have evolved so much....LOVE the recent content, especially the Road To Horsepower series. I cannot believe you don't have more subscribers!! That dyno and the plasma table have been real game changers for your operation there. Kepp cranking out the good stuff! About the cracked sleeve.....totally baffled by that, but very interesting to see. Hopefully Tillotson sees this and can research the issue.
I bet the sleeve cracked due to vibration and block flex. These engines are being pushed well beyond what they were designed for and at that point stuff like this starts to happen. I wonder if a person could find thicker sleeve and bore out the block a bit more and push that in. Might be getting to the point where you will start to need to make some kind of girdle for the block. I do think that getting the rotating assembly balanced is an excellent idea which will free up horsepower and prolong the life of the engine. I'm currently working on a Continental engine from a forklift and those engines were balanced from the factory to help them last longer. The port sizes on that head aren't much bigger than what you see on the Predators of course they were only aiming for 40hp out of a Z-134 at 2k.
Will be cool to see the Tillotson 212 on that dyno, I have one on my racing go kart without the governor and a 22mm MIKUNI plus header. I would love to see the difference between a stock and just carb and Header without governor.
224 making the same horsepower as THREE stock 212s, very cool
Once you get a few hours on it try it on the dyno again letting things get a little looser inside the motor might show some gains.
Hey Red Beard I know it’s something basic but could you do a video on what all the hoses do and where all they go? Just a basic fuel delivery and how best to tune a motor video would be appreciated, thanks for all the info over the years!
You are killing it man these videos are awesome
Woah, more hp than my 420!, cool!
6:11 This was allowing combustion to pressurize the crankcase, causing oil to blow out the vent.
Love it I'm doing a stage 3 on my 224 for my manco ez rider kart! Good to know
Love it I got a 224 on my kilowatt glad you dynoed a stock one
Since I was a kid I wanted to put a motorcycle head on my flat head Briggs cart engine,
Imagine a Ducati with desmodronic valve train, the cam opens and closes the valves, I was wanting to fit a Suzuki Dr 200 head to the Briggs, but it was well beyond my means,
Great video as always 👍
Great vid.
Great content
That's good stuff!
Looks like the iron cylinder liner came loose from the block. Might be time for some dart liners haha
I feel like the head gasket Blew then the heat escaping Cracked the Cyl try Copper Coat Spray on the MLS gasket let it dry completely then install Good Luck Great Video Red
Cerakote is a thermal reflector, aluminum is designed to dissipate heat at a fast rate...the cerakote will slow it down and hold heat in the block causing it to warp and crack,plus the vibration the 224 has doesn't help either.
My first thought was that I would start wondering how hot I was running.
Hello , am rossia, video крутые 👍
Very good information as always!
Can the predator 224cc hit 23hp with that moflow head, bigger can, & rockers?
Or would you build on a DuroMax
to get that kind of hp?
Awesome video 💯
What AFR do you look for on wide open throttle?
Love this
Oof, I hope the 224 I picked up last week is the better block.
Reeel Nice 👌 a couple more ladles of gravies in dat one 😉
Good video, but I have to say for me a blown engine is oil on the ground and holes in the block....lol
I like comparing Dyno numbers.
Love your vids
Hey buddy, every time I watch one of your Dyno runs, it’s like a dopamine it for me
you're saying road to horsepower gets you high, me too!
@@markyoung9964 yeah, I totally trip
Whatever happened with the electronic ignition with the variable timing that you got from Danny in Canada, I bought the same CDI kit, but I never put it on
Isn't the stock muffler really restrictive and carburetor on the lean side? 10 HP isn't bad at all for that size engine and all those power killers installed. What is your compression increase over stock? 10.0 to 10.5?
Very interesting. Any new information on the 274?
So what happened to The Road To Horsepower Dyno with the Hemi 212? It's been forever now.
Can you put the stroker crank on the tilly 72mm and make a 236
Any recommendations on the best stage 4 build setup for a 224 for kart racing? Thanks!
Have you considered testing Cerakote engine coating on these engines? Piston Coat on the top of the piston & combustion chamber/valve faces, and Micros Slick Dry film lubricant on the piston skirts. Would be really interesting to see if you get any hp gains.
Where can I find the magnetic oil dip stick for the billet valve cover?
crazy when ya can torch a head and block on a single ohv motor.
What kind of HP numbers were you looking for? Think you've done all you can with fuel you're using. Idk, awesome vid as always😊
yo guys! are the "heat shields" actual heat shields or are they shrouds that assist in the cooling across the fins?
Still waiting for 999cc durumax street legal motorcycle video. YOU PROMISED US
Hey Red, what afr are you shooting for on these engines. I’m used to monitoring it on my turbo v8s, just wondering what these clones like?
I was wondering that also. He’s looking a bit rich to me under the hood that for sure. Probably tuning by ear rather than with a gas analyzer. That should be his next shop goody
I really really really love it for sure now and me and my lil brother has two go-karts and we would love to know how to make more power out of there they're the 212cc predator engine
It could've been the core shift during manufacturing. Another possibility is the piston rings were tight from the factory and with all that sustained rpm you were giving it they butted a bit and expanded, putting more force on the sleeve. Aluminum fatigues with heat and expansion rates are different with steel and aluminum so that could also be a factor. You should try low tension moly rings and a bigger gap to see if that prevents cracking.
What's happening is that the blown by which is "exhaust smoke" essentially is directly going into the head, causing it to become too pressured seeing that there is 2 lines in an 1 out. From the side cover there should be 1 directly out to air and 1 must find a medium space like a catch can before it goes into the head. Basically all that's happening is there is too much pressure building up in the crank case but its going directly back into the engine with little escaping. By doing that you're taking the high-pressured exhaust smoke that lands in the crankcase "past the rings" and putting it right back into the head. In the valve cover or valvetrain it's becoming so pressured it's pushing through even the valves guides and going into the chamber. Simply reduce the pressure that goes back into the head and make sure it's semi-clean before it goes back into the valve cover. Against popular theory you should never have the high-pressure of the crankcase going right back into the head that's already happening through the oil tube. The purpose of ventilating the crankcase is to reduce the pressure in the head to begin with. Or this happens. You don't want opposing forces you just want to allow the air to escape at a slow rate and at a faster rate at higher RPMs hence the PCV valves. The only reason why you want to go back into the head with air is to maintain some type of pressure at a fast drop in RPMs. Besides that it is senseless or maybe to spit oil Vapors on the valve train but there is a lot of oil coming up between the pushrods there should be zinc in the oil to promote that.
I wana send ya my black mamba jr cam and have it throw it in one of your builds and see what it makes..its sposed to be a crazy torque cam.
I was wondering do you think the cerakote hold in too much heat the air cannot cool off the cylinder properly just food for thought
What engine oil do you prefer in your engines
Ur awesome man you do amazing work and I love watching your videos you really offer amazing content and helps me with my builds
Who are you getting to balance the crank?
O ring the head or block keeps the seal extra tight.
You say to never reuse a billet flywheel. I dont mean to sound dumb, but if it has a key and you relap it. What would be the issue with reuse?
I don't see an issue with it but thats what they say lol.
If it's made from billet aluminum vs cast steel then i would guess it's because aluminum gets weaker with use no matter what so after a long time can fail from fatigue. Steel has the ability to stay strong with use unless it gets abused and pushed to hard. I have no idea if thats actually the reason, it's just what i would guess.
I'd like to see the failure reports simply from reusing a billet flywheel
Probably none lol.
When I put my thumb on the spark plug hole I feel no pressure at all and found my spark plug to be covered in oil. The engine runs but struggles to go over 7k rpm could it be a blown head gasket ?
So I dont know if I have missed it but when are you going to dyno the 670
Would anyone run this engine with these mods on an offroad cart like the Trailmaster or Zircon?
Can you dyno that diesel engine that you used on that go kart? I'm interested in buying one and would love to see how much power it makes with and without that turbo!
Who would balance one of these?
Eeeaaaa screw it!😅 God bless RBG
You should cut that head another .030"-.060" pick up some TQ and maybe a HP or two, running 100 octane plus you should not have any problems, 200-220 psi compression ,
When I saw the title I was thinking supercharged engine not cracked sleeve engine. I was waiting for you to get out the supercharger until you found the crack in the sleeve. I wonder about taking that block pulling that broken sleeve and pushing in a bigger one. Makes you want a boring machine doesn't it? I know it makes me want one just to try it. Love messing with engines
You should do a 224 with a 308 cam see what go you can make
Needs 2-3x more oil capacity n oil cooling. Overheating will cause it to crack da head. Common occurrence when supercharging it.
Redbeard, you punched that piston in too hard when you installed it.
Do you find the blue roller rockers are just as good as the black spyder roller rockers? I notice many people don’t splurge the $89 more for the black pros.
Also can you use the same crank in the new block so it matches your flywheel? It’s a bit absurd to think a poor middle aged dad who’s smuggling extra money from the wife to build a scooter motor could afford a new bullet flywheel each rebuild….. 🤔
Awesome video though, thank you 🙏🏽
Your rod had to have hit the bottom of the cylinder sleeve. if it’s stroked then maybe the crank hit it. Definitely hit the sleeve on the old block that why it cracked ect.
Question, do you still put the Normal 0.64 quarts in your 224 considering that the oil sensor is out? I’m building a stage 3 and I’m not sure how much oil would be optimal
14oz is what I always run. 12-16 is the range.
I've seen that on small block Chevy rare engines that burned the head gasket as much as 0.60 gone from the block and more from the head both cast iron running 110 octane rare gas between cylinders 3 and 5
Well that sucks buddy. Still its to be expected with heavy mods.
I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure is as long as the flywheel doesn't interfere with the block or the engine case and seats nice on the crankshaft and does up ok it will be fine
I have that head on a 236 in man or man that thing is a screamer
First of all that is the sleeve that broke. The reason it failed is it is a HF pile, I bought a Tillotson 72mm short block with self aligning bearings for $140. The company I bought it from also mills just enough off the top of the deck to make sure it is flat. If you want to make big power with a clone Tillotson blocks were designed for that purpose they are the only ones that were developed for big power period.
One thing that guys never consider is that many of these engines including the 224 are utility engines low oil sensor and all. The Tillotson is a powersports engine. It better have a higher quality block.
i seen the missing piece fall when you removed the top
It's interesting to see such a small general purpose engine able to perform at that level of output power and speed with some relatively simple upgrades. I wonder though, is there a decent fuel injection system yet for something like this or is it too cost prohibitive to have something like that?
Probably the closest thing EFI wise is Speeduino. There’s a bunch of different boards, the detonation EMS x2 is perfect for these kinds of engines. The ECU itself is under $100. But when you add throttle body, injector, fuel pump, sensors and trigger wheel (required if you plan to control ignition) you’ll be lucky to have change out of $300 or so. Have to consider powering it too. The ECU doesn’t use much, but even the small fuel pumps can draw as much as 3A. If you’re running a lambda sensor that another amp. There’s things you can do to reduce fuel pump power needs via electronic pressure regulation. This can get your total system draw down to 2-3A
Power wise EFI itself doesn’t really change peak HP, but you can find a lot under the curve between ignition and fuel mapping. Transient response can be very snappy if you want it to be.
Probably biggest bonus of an EFI EFI system is boost control and nitrous support.
I wanna see what one of these built motors does on e85.