Thanks a lot, this was bugging me, thinking that I have to get an over 100A breaker and wire to support that draw if I wanted to use a welder; your video helped a lot! Thanks again!
Holy crap thank you so much for this video! This has been confusing the hell out of me, I was thinking I needed to have a 50A circuit installed to run even the smallest stick welder I could find. I have 20A circuits at home so I should be OK.
@@garbo8962 very true, thank you. My garage circuit does power some large fluorescent light fixtures so it'd be risky to use that. I am actually still considering hiring an electrician to run a dedicated 40 or 50A circuit in my garage since I also want to run a high current dust collector along with and 15A power tools. So atm I'm getting sawdust everywhere and still don't run a welder
On a lincoln le31mp welder,very good info.thank yiu sir,i bought a gfci outlet since its going outside and 6 foot 10 gauge wire from out let to 30 amp breaker 120
Great video! I'm in the process of wireing up the shed for my welders (old Lincoln 240V AC-DCbuzz box, Amico CST-160 Tig combo, and Amico MIG 130A flux core) Your info shed light on a few things I knew but never understood. Thank you and looking forward to more vids!
I pretty much have the same setup of welders and I'm thinking of doing the same of wiring up an outlet, what did you end up going with for wire and breaker wise. I was thinking about going with somewhere around 6 gauge wire and a 220v 50amp breaker that I'm going off my box inside my house about 60 ft in length, does that sound suitable for what I am wanting to do. I have the same old Lincoln buzz box and amco 130 flux core welders and don't want to risk maxing out my 30 amp dryer outlet but keep having people tell me that using that outlet is fine kind of what is being shown in this video I believe, but any input I will take please. Thank you, God bless and don't shock yourself LOL
Have you tested a 110v yeswelder flux 135? I have one and need to figure out what breaker to get so I can run it at higher amps. I need it to practice uphill welding.
I have a Lincoln mig 140:that was frequently tripping the breaker. I isolated an outlet next to the panel and gave it a dedicated 30A breaker and a HD 20A outlet ( that's the biggest they make). Still easily trips the breakers in the gen.
Hey there! Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I just bought a Lincoln 225v welder ( ac only, no dc). My garage already has a 240v outlet and the breaker box is labeled "welder" on the 40a breaker. The best info I have found thus far is that this welder requires a 50a breaker. Can you believe that the owners manual has absolutely NO info about the breaker size? So I'm wondering if my current 40a breaker will be ok for my small little projects. Reason I'm asking, is because there's no since in going to all that trouble if the 40a will work,,,, and,,, I have an unusual brand breaker box and a 50a is gonna cost me about $100. If I can get by, I'll save myself the money and time waiting for the order. I have a spare 40a breaker anyway and it's not gonna hurt to try I guess. I really appreciate your advice and help. Thank you!!!
My guess is that a 40 amp breaker will be fine for your use, particularly if you aren't running the welder at max output. Honestly, I would just try it. Chances are it will work fine. If you find you are tripping the breaker a lot, then you can look into an upgrade. But just be aware, you shouldn't simply upsize the breaker without upgrading the wiring, or verifying that the existing wiring is rated for a larger breaker (it probably isn't). If the existing wiring is only rated at 40 amps, you shouldn't upsize the breaker.
@@bigtb1717 I sure appreciate your thoughts. Believe it or not, I've done LOTS of electrical work, I'm a licensed HVAC technician with a background in refrigeration and home appliances, but retired now so its been a few years. (Old age sucks 😆) At a glance, I think the wiring in that outlet is #6,,,I might be off, but if I am its an 8. I had to replace the outlet because the type that was there was like the type a dryer would use, you know the one with the 2 hot prongs diagonally slanted. The man that built the place was a retired Navy jet engine mechanic with an electrical engineering degree,,, so I totally trust him even though I never met him. We bought the place after his passing. House was built in 1992, and there's no telling how old or what type of welder he actually used with that outlet. But I can see his handy work all around the place, he was a lot like me, very creative and pretty much built or repaired everything he needed. I have pretty much made up my mind to bring that new welder from the barn to the garage and give it a whirl. Can't hurt, and I'll find out real quick if I need to get a bigger breaker.😆 Hubby wants to have it all set up in "His" man cave barn, but I'm gonna have to do a lot more work to getting an outlet in the barn. I'm pretty sure the old man just kept his equipment stored in there with a small work bench. Plenty of bright lighting and only 4 outlets. I believe I'm right by calling it a "industrial disconnect fuse box" in the barn. I'm not familiar with it because its way older than I am. It's a metal box about the size of a shoe box with 3 large tubular 30amp fuses in it. They are about twice the size of a lipstick. So I'm not sure, but I'd imagine each fuse is dedicated to 3 different circuits,,, like outside lights, inside lights and outlets. Just a logical guess. But I'm gonna want to replace that with a breaker box eventually. Anywho, just thinking outloud. Thanks for your thoughts on it anyway sweetie!
How did your Lincoln buzz box run off of your 40 amp breaker, I'm curious because I have the same situation going on and was going to do the same. So was wondering if you had problems with your 40amp breaker tripping a bunch and if you had to upgrade or not. Please would like to know your opinion especially since you work with electricity and have the same Lincoln AC buzz box as I do, looks like one that was built in the 60s or 70s very solid and dependable. Thank you, God bless and don't shock yourself LOL
@@tammymorris-traylor6320 Just a suggestion...... he might have used that outlet to back feed the panel with a generator if the power went out.......maybe that is why it was only a 40amp breaker...... Just because he was an electrical engineer means nothing.... I bought a house from a plumber and you would think he would have done all the plumbing right......not......
So If I was to run a Lincoln electric 225 ac arc welder on a 125/250v 30 amp breaker 3 prong dryer outlet using an extension cord at would it work fine for welding at 75 - 120 amps? thank you for your time
Unfortunately, there is no simple formula for that. If you have 125 amps of output current, total wattage will depend on the arc voltage. For instance, if the arc voltage was 17V, then output wattage would be 2,125 (125A x 17V). In that case, the minimum input wattage would be 2,125, but that assumes zero losses, and there are always losses. Assuming no losses, 2,125 watts at 240V would be 8.8 Amps (2,125 watts divided by 240 volts). But again, that assumes a power factor of 1 and zero losses. In reality, current draw would be higher. Unfortunately, you need more pieces of the puzzle than just input voltage and output amps.
Thanks, you explained a lot. I purchased a 120 volt flux core welder and it trips my 15amp house breaker in about 5 seconds. It trips my 20amp generator breaker in about the same time. My welder has a standard 3-prong male plug like those on household appliances. My generator has a 120v 30amp outlet but requires a special 30amp plug. What I can't find is a 30amp female plug that matches my welder's male plug. Question: Should I just cut the plug off my welder and re-wire it with a 30amp male plug?
How many watts is your generator? You could make an adapter to go from the plug on your welder to the plug on your generator. But there's also no reason you couldn't cut the plug off your welder and wire a different plug onto the cord.
3600 watts may struggle to run your welder, especially if it's maxed out. If your welder trips a 20 amp breaker in a few seconds, it's probably drawing upwards of 30 amps. Even 30 amps would be 3600 watts. If it draws just 35 amps that's 4200 watts. Just something to keep in mind. To make an adapter you'd just get a female end that matches up to your welder, a male end that works with your generator and then connect the two with a bit of cord.
@@bigtb1717 The issue is, the highest amp rating for a female end that matches my welder plug is 15amps. They don't make those higher than 15amps. The end that plugs into the generator is 30amps. I'll try that to see if the female end melts. Because the welding isn't continuous, maybe it will work.
The 240V outlet will definitely provide more power with a 240V welder, even if the breaker is only 20 amps. Wattage is amps times volts. So you can get double the wattage from a 20A, 240V receptacle vs. a 20A, 120V receptacle. Depending on the welder, you may not be able to turn it up all the way on a 20A receptacle. But I have inverter welders with power factor correction that can provide nearly 200 amps of output with 20A input at 240V.
No problem. Here is another video where I show amperage draw on 120V and 240V from a variety of different inverter stick welders. th-cam.com/video/fzkD9Zkt0K8/w-d-xo.html
@@bigtb1717 Hey just wanted to let you know I bought a 50amp plasma cutter and a 180amp mig welder and I was able to run them no problem on my my 220v 20amp circuit. Just wanted to thanks you for your video. Without it I would still be wishing I could get a welder and plasma cutter from what the internet says. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
Technically, one of the main jobs of the breaker is to protect the wire. So if the wire and breaker are sized and installed correctly, the thermal trip mechanism in the breaker should heat up and trip before the wire heats up too much. But if there is a poor connection or a particularly well-insulated section of wire, it could theoretically heat up more than it otherwise should. It's one of the reasons I'm always happy to reduce current draw whenever I can. Current plus resistance creates heat. Excess heat over time can cause all kinds of issues, up to and including fire if the situation gets bad enough. Still, as long as there are no issues with your wiring, you should be okay.
My welder keeps tripping the breaker, I think when I run it super hot and for a long time, I have asked other welders and they say I need a bigger breaker outlet and wires, for example I’m probably running a 15 amp breaker and outlet and they say I need something bigger like a 20 or 30 amp breaker outlet and wires. Will that fix it? Thank you Vlad
From your description of the problem, it sounds like a higher amperage breaker would help a lot, and possibly eliminate the issue entirely. As you say, you would need a higher amperage breaker as well as an outlet and wiring that could safely support the higher amperage.
My old cebora pocket mig asks for a 20 amp circuit but if you run it on max it will trip the breaker after 5 seconds. I switched the circuit to a 30amp
I have a vulcan 215 and i use the 120 plugin rated for 20v but it keep popping breaker after continuous runs. But i have a 240 plug that can be hooked to a 30 amp breaker On my generator. If i hook my 240 plug to 30 amp plugin. Will i lose the issue? I have a predator 9000 watt generator.
If you run a similar amperage setting on the welder to what you are running now, you will likely have no problem. But if you max the welder out, it may pull more than 30 amps. I can't say for sure, because I never measured the 215 when I had it.
@bigtb1717 ok. I think somebody on youtube said you might run the C.E. welder up to a level 6, without blowing a fuse on a 15 amp curcuit. Do you think that sounds about right?
I bought a small stick welding plan able to weld up to 250 amps. The machine is capable of running on both 110 and 220v current, however the input plug is a 20amp t styled 220 plug. I've made an adapter that allows for the Male 20amp plug to draw regular 15amp current from a regular 110v outlet. I'm electrically impaired 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Can you give me a dumbed down answer as to why this is okay or not?
Great video and good to know information. I'm wondering if you have checked the amp draw from the Juba ZX7-200 with your adapter at it's max setting? This type of video is very interesting to me and thanks for posting it. Take care :)
I haven't checked it yet, but I plan to check a bunch of different welders eventually. I was running out of time yesterday and decided to make this video more about the concept and to explain breakers a bit. I am curious if there is a significant difference in welder efficiency between cheaper and more expensive welders.
Thanks, you too. I'm looking forward to it as well. I plan to test out 4 or 5 welders on 120V and 240V. I'll match their output (actually measure it rather than relying on the display) so that I'm getting the same amperage out, then I'll check and compare their amp draw. It will be interesting to see the amp draw in general, but also to see if there is a meaningful difference in efficiency. Really busy with work and projects around the house, not to mention other videos. I hope it isn't too long before I can get it done, but time goes fast, so we'll see.
If I have a 220v 50A outlet, but its 3 prong twist lock style, & I use an adapter that says it's 30A on the twist side to 50A on welder side, does that mean I only have a 30A breaker since the twist lock will heat up over 30A? .... Also, running a 50 ft long cord...guessing that ups the resistance a lot.
The only way to know for sure what size breaker you have is to physically check and verify. Technically the breaker should be sized to protect the circuit, not necessarily the stuff you plug in. For example, you might plug a lamp with a 10 amp rated cord into a 15 or 20 amp circuit. So your 30 amp rated adapter may be fine, but if your welder is rated at a higher effective current draw than 30 amps, you will probably want to check that adapter occasionally to make sure it isn’t heating up. A 50 foot extension cord may be fine, but it will depend on the draw of the welder and on the wire gauge if the cord.
My Titanium Easy Flux 125 is tripping my 20amp breaker welding 3/16" after about 30 seconds. The circuit is 10/2 wire but standard outlets are only 20amp so I could put in a 30amp breaker then the weak point is the outlet. I guess I could put in a 30amp outlet but then I would need an adapter like in the video to plug in the welder.
My recommendation if you are going to do it is to put in a 30 amp outlet. Making an adapter or changing the plug on your welder is inconvenient and you probably wouldn't have an issue with a 20 amp outlet, but you never know what might happen down the road. I've seen outlets burn up (as in, become a smoking pool of molten plastic and charred metal) when run for a while with too much current. I've seen it several times over the years and it was incredibly lucky it didn't cause a fire. Overcurrent leads to heat which leads to increased resistance, which leads to more heat...
I have a 160 mig welder and it tack weld all day but when I try to do a long bead or fill a large hole it trips the breaker. It’s an electric welder that plugs into a standard American wall plug. ( I do have it plugged into an extension cord to the garage). I don’t know what I need to do to prevent it from doing that. It’s frustrating that it’ll do that every time I try to do a long bead and I worry it’ll cause an electrical problem with my house with it constantly doing that
Do you know if you are running the welder on a 15A circuit or a 20A circuit? Turning down the output of the welder could reduce the number of breaker trips you get, but that's only a good option if what you are doing can actually be done at a lower output. If you need the amount of output you are set for and you are already running on a 20A circuit, there really isn't anything else you can do to prevent the issue. If you only have access to 15 amp circuits, then you will be fairly limited in the amount of power you can get out of a welder.
Honestly idk if it has another option I’ll have to check but I’m sure I can still weld the scrap art I’m trying to make even the frame to my motorcycles at a lower out put cause it’s all pretty thin metal. I’m going to hopefully try later today thank you for your help. Great video by the way.
The draw from the wall shouldn't be any different, but I can check it to be sure. I plan to make a video testing more welders, but I didn't have a lot of time when I was putting this video together. I just finished putting the adapters together when I started this video. I'll be doing more tests at some point.
Thanks for the fast response. I also have a titanium 125. So my thought is that I can convert my rectifier & capacitor modified 90 amp HF to DCEP by swapping the output wires on the rectifier. I have seen SS fluxcore wire which calls for DCEP. I can use the Titanium 125 for everything else . The SS FC is expensive but I have a repair on a SS exhaust brace on a boat. The brace is not critical so a weld failure Isn't dangerous.
If you have a DC converted 90 amp model it should be no problem to swap the leads and get DCEP. However, that stainless wire specifies higher voltage than that welder will provide. I haven't tried it (I've considered trying it for a video) so I can't say for sure. I have seen people use standard flux core wire on stainless steel for non-critacal welds. The welded area won't be stainless/rust-resistant and it will look a little ugly, but I believe it will work.
Great evaluation but I still do not understand how my Miller 235 has a full duty of 60 at 170 amps and requires only a 50 amp breaker. That is 120 amps greater than the breaker for 6 minutes. Thanks again! Great presentation!
170 amps is the output current, not the input current. So your welder can output 170 amps for 6 out of every 10 minutes. However, when putting out 170 amps of welding current, it will be drawing far less current than this from the supply circuit. You are probably supplying your welder with 240V input. At 170 amps of output it may be putting out 25-26 volts or so. So with 240V input, the welder may only have to draw 30 amps of current (assuming some losses and imperfect power factor).
Wouldn't really help. For example, a 120V only welder wouldn't run properly on 240V, so you couldn't step the voltage up without damaging the welder or at least causing it to run improperly. Even if it technically worked, you would still be drawing just as much from the wall going into the step-up transformer. More actually, once you factor in losses inside the transformer. If you step 240V down to 120V for the welder you will be drawing less from the wall, but at that point you could just use a 240V welder and get more performance. Not to mention the size and cost of a transformer large enough to run the welder.
The 80% rating isn't the trip point. An 80% and a 100% rated "20 amp" breaker may or may not have the same trip curves (depends on the protection class and intent of the breaker). In other words, the trip curve and protection they offer to the circuit may be identical. The 80% or 100% rating is more of a duty cycle rating for the breaker itself, not about the protection it offers for the circuit. The NEC specifies breakers as either 80% or 100% rated. A 100% rated breaker is permitted to be installed in a circuit where it will be run at 100% of its rated current carrying capacity, continuously. An 80% rated breaker is not permitted to be used in a circuit where it will run at 100% of its rated current carrying capacity continuously. An 80% rated breaker is permitted to be run at the full rating, but not continuously. I think the max is three hours. So an 80% breaker should not be used in a circuit where it will be expected to pass the full, rated current for more than 3 hours at a time. It's not about when it will trip, but more about how much heat will build up in the breaker over time if the full rated current is passing through it. In other words, if you have a circuit that you know will pull 20 amps continuously (or for more than 3 hours at a time), but never more than that, you shouldn't use a 20A, 80% rated breaker, but you could use a 20A, 100% rated breaker. The 80% rated breaker may not be any more likely to trip than a 100% rated, 20 amp breaker but it would not meet code because it is not rated for that duty cycle.
@@bigtb1717 So I need to special order a 100% breaker since the residential and commercial markets sell 80% rated devices by default. Thank you for informative response. I plan on adding a welder in my shed and your video has really help me understand what I need to do in order to provide safe and consistent power for the welder.
@@jtwilliams721 Welders aren't constant duty cycle. No way you'll ever run a welder for three hours straight. The main thing is to size the breaker large enough for the expected load. You shouldn't need a 100% rated breaker.
All circuit breakers will allow maybe a 150% over current for at least 30 seconds before tripping. Never saw a small to medium size welder rated for more then a 30% duty cycle so even if you were welding and drawing 50% over current 30% of the time should be okay. In commercial shops I always ran a receptacle & circuit 125% larger then weldor nameplate amps. That way would never trip a circuit breaker.
120V circuits are most commonly either 15 or 20 amps. I've seen some 10 amp circuits in some places, as well as 30 amps or more. Technically, if you use the right breaker and wire size, you could make a 120V circuit whatever amperage you wanted, assuming the supply (utility service, generator, etc.) could support it.
Question. Are you saying "any" 20 amp breaker would be fine for non-continuous runs? My manual says I need a 20amp "delayed action breaker" I have no clue if my breaker is delayed action. How can I tell? Or should I just plug it in and see what happens? Thanks, bud. good video
Most modern household breakers are delayed action (there should be a brand and model label on the breaker which could be used to verify) so I bet you are fine. All delayed action means is that they won't trip instantly when the current gets above 20 amps. If you aren't sure you can just plug the welder in and give it a shot. If it's a fast response breaker it will likely trip the instant you start welding, so you'll find out pretty quick. If you have an old panel with fuses instead of breakers it might be a good idea to check the label on the fuse and see what it says (fuses can have a time delay as well) before you pop a fuse and have to replace it. But older fuse panels are getting pretty uncommon these days, so you probably have breakers.
@@bigtb1717 Thanks, I do have breakers. Its my 1st welder. and will be the 1st time welding period. so I was concerned after reading the manual. Thanks so much for the response. I will give it a go tonight :)
I was welding with my Lincoln 180 off of an 8750 generator no problem.. then all the sudden the other day it starts tripping the breaker on the back of the welder . Tripping every 4 seconds
There are a couple possibilities. First, there could be a problem with the welder or even with the circuit breaker on the generator. The other possibility is that the thermal trip unit in the breaker simply needed to cool down. If I describe this possibility you can probably decide from your experience if this could be what was happening. Assuming the breaker has a thermal trip function (most do), there is a metal element in the breaker which heats up any time more than a certain amount of current flows through it. If enough current flows through it for long enough, it will heat up enough to trip the breaker. If this happens and you quickly re-set the breaker and start drawing current through it again, that element it will already be near the trip temperature, so it will quickly trip again. After allowing the breaker some time to cool down it seems to hold for longer, then that's probably all it was. However, if even after waiting a while for the breaker to cool it still trips within a few seconds, then I would go back to thinking it could be an issue with the breaker or the welder.
Thanks a lot, this was bugging me, thinking that I have to get an over 100A breaker and wire to support that draw if I wanted to use a welder; your video helped a lot! Thanks again!
Holy crap thank you so much for this video! This has been confusing the hell out of me, I was thinking I needed to have a 50A circuit installed to run even the smallest stick welder I could find. I have 20A circuits at home so I should be OK.
Depends what else is on that breaker. Best practice would be to have a dedicated ciruit.
@@garbo8962 very true, thank you. My garage circuit does power some large fluorescent light fixtures so it'd be risky to use that. I am actually still considering hiring an electrician to run a dedicated 40 or 50A circuit in my garage since I also want to run a high current dust collector along with and 15A power tools. So atm I'm getting sawdust everywhere and still don't run a welder
On a lincoln le31mp welder,very good info.thank yiu sir,i bought a gfci outlet since its going outside and 6 foot 10 gauge wire from out let to 30 amp breaker 120
Great video! I'm in the process of wireing up the shed for my welders (old Lincoln 240V AC-DCbuzz box, Amico CST-160 Tig combo, and Amico MIG 130A flux core) Your info shed light on a few things I knew but never understood. Thank you and looking forward to more vids!
I pretty much have the same setup of welders and I'm thinking of doing the same of wiring up an outlet, what did you end up going with for wire and breaker wise. I was thinking about going with somewhere around 6 gauge wire and a 220v 50amp breaker that I'm going off my box inside my house about 60 ft in length, does that sound suitable for what I am wanting to do. I have the same old Lincoln buzz box and amco 130 flux core welders and don't want to risk maxing out my 30 amp dryer outlet but keep having people tell me that using that outlet is fine kind of what is being shown in this video I believe, but any input I will take please. Thank you, God bless and don't shock yourself LOL
Thank you. Very informative, helpful and well described.
Question..........What size breaker would I need if I have a Hobart 210 Handler?
Have you tested a 110v yeswelder flux 135? I have one and need to figure out what breaker to get so I can run it at higher amps. I need it to practice uphill welding.
I have a Lincoln mig 140:that was frequently tripping the breaker. I isolated an outlet next to the panel and gave it a dedicated 30A breaker and a HD 20A outlet ( that's the biggest they make). Still easily trips the breakers in the gen.
Hey there! Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I just bought a Lincoln 225v welder ( ac only, no dc). My garage already has a 240v outlet and the breaker box is labeled "welder" on the 40a breaker. The best info I have found thus far is that this welder requires a 50a breaker. Can you believe that the owners manual has absolutely NO info about the breaker size? So I'm wondering if my current 40a breaker will be ok for my small little projects. Reason I'm asking, is because there's no since in going to all that trouble if the 40a will work,,,, and,,, I have an unusual brand breaker box and a 50a is gonna cost me about $100. If I can get by, I'll save myself the money and time waiting for the order. I have a spare 40a breaker anyway and it's not gonna hurt to try I guess. I really appreciate your advice and help. Thank you!!!
My guess is that a 40 amp breaker will be fine for your use, particularly if you aren't running the welder at max output. Honestly, I would just try it. Chances are it will work fine. If you find you are tripping the breaker a lot, then you can look into an upgrade. But just be aware, you shouldn't simply upsize the breaker without upgrading the wiring, or verifying that the existing wiring is rated for a larger breaker (it probably isn't). If the existing wiring is only rated at 40 amps, you shouldn't upsize the breaker.
@@bigtb1717 I sure appreciate your thoughts. Believe it or not, I've done LOTS of electrical work, I'm a licensed HVAC technician with a background in refrigeration and home appliances, but retired now so its been a few years. (Old age sucks 😆) At a glance, I think the wiring in that outlet is #6,,,I might be off, but if I am its an 8. I had to replace the outlet because the type that was there was like the type a dryer would use, you know the one with the 2 hot prongs diagonally slanted. The man that built the place was a retired Navy jet engine mechanic with an electrical engineering degree,,, so I totally trust him even though I never met him. We bought the place after his passing. House was built in 1992, and there's no telling how old or what type of welder he actually used with that outlet. But I can see his handy work all around the place, he was a lot like me, very creative and pretty much built or repaired everything he needed.
I have pretty much made up my mind to bring that new welder from the barn to the garage and give it a whirl. Can't hurt, and I'll find out real quick if I need to get a bigger breaker.😆 Hubby wants to have it all set up in "His" man cave barn, but I'm gonna have to do a lot more work to getting an outlet in the barn. I'm pretty sure the old man just kept his equipment stored in there with a small work bench. Plenty of bright lighting and only 4 outlets. I believe I'm right by calling it a "industrial disconnect fuse box" in the barn. I'm not familiar with it because its way older than I am. It's a metal box about the size of a shoe box with 3 large tubular 30amp fuses in it. They are about twice the size of a lipstick. So I'm not sure, but I'd imagine each fuse is dedicated to 3 different circuits,,, like outside lights, inside lights and outlets. Just a logical guess. But I'm gonna want to replace that with a breaker box eventually.
Anywho, just thinking outloud. Thanks for your thoughts on it anyway sweetie!
How did your Lincoln buzz box run off of your 40 amp breaker, I'm curious because I have the same situation going on and was going to do the same. So was wondering if you had problems with your 40amp breaker tripping a bunch and if you had to upgrade or not. Please would like to know your opinion especially since you work with electricity and have the same Lincoln AC buzz box as I do, looks like one that was built in the 60s or 70s very solid and dependable. Thank you, God bless and don't shock yourself LOL
@@tammymorris-traylor6320 Just a suggestion...... he might have used that outlet to back feed the panel with a generator if the power went out.......maybe that is why it was only a 40amp breaker...... Just because he was an electrical engineer means nothing.... I bought a house from a plumber and you would think he would have done all the plumbing right......not......
Tradesmen tend to use what they get for free at home.
This video helped me so much. Thanks for putting it out there!
Dude this is awesome I was looking for a video about my miller thunderbolt 160 and a 20 amp breaker but after watching this I think I’ll be ok 👍
So If I was to run a Lincoln electric 225 ac arc welder on a 125/250v 30 amp breaker 3 prong dryer outlet using an extension cord at would it work fine for welding at 75 - 120 amps?
thank you for your time
At 75-120 amps it would probably be fine. Just be aware that those older machines are not as efficient as the newer, inverter machines.
@@bigtb1717 alright thank you for letting me know great videos by the way
When a welder is set at 125 amps welding current, , and input voltage is 240 vac. Is there a formula that tells. What the input current is ? Thanks
Unfortunately, there is no simple formula for that. If you have 125 amps of output current, total wattage will depend on the arc voltage. For instance, if the arc voltage was 17V, then output wattage would be 2,125 (125A x 17V). In that case, the minimum input wattage would be 2,125, but that assumes zero losses, and there are always losses. Assuming no losses, 2,125 watts at 240V would be 8.8 Amps (2,125 watts divided by 240 volts). But again, that assumes a power factor of 1 and zero losses. In reality, current draw would be higher.
Unfortunately, you need more pieces of the puzzle than just input voltage and output amps.
Super helpful and great information!
very helpful, plan to use a 50 amp 2 pole breaker for 220 with 6 guage wire to outlet on its own circuit.
Thanks, you explained a lot. I purchased a 120 volt flux core welder and it trips my 15amp house breaker in about 5 seconds. It trips my 20amp generator breaker in about the same time. My welder has a standard 3-prong male plug like those on household appliances. My generator has a 120v 30amp outlet but requires a special 30amp plug. What I can't find is a 30amp female plug that matches my welder's male plug. Question: Should I just cut the plug off my welder and re-wire it with a 30amp male plug?
How many watts is your generator?
You could make an adapter to go from the plug on your welder to the plug on your generator. But there's also no reason you couldn't cut the plug off your welder and wire a different plug onto the cord.
@@bigtb1717 Thanks. It's 3600 Watts with 4000 starting. Is there a female 30amp adapter that will fit the 3-prong plug on my welder?
3600 watts may struggle to run your welder, especially if it's maxed out. If your welder trips a 20 amp breaker in a few seconds, it's probably drawing upwards of 30 amps. Even 30 amps would be 3600 watts. If it draws just 35 amps that's 4200 watts. Just something to keep in mind.
To make an adapter you'd just get a female end that matches up to your welder, a male end that works with your generator and then connect the two with a bit of cord.
@@bigtb1717 Thanks, I think we'll buy a larger generator. We need one that puts out 220 to run our water pump anyway.
@@bigtb1717 The issue is, the highest amp rating for a female end that matches my welder plug is 15amps. They don't make those higher than 15amps. The end that plugs into the generator is 30amps. I'll try that to see if the female end melts. Because the welding isn't continuous, maybe it will work.
I have a 20amp 120v and a 20amp 220v in my garage. Would the 220 20amp give my welder more room if I bought a 120/220 welder? Thanks
The 240V outlet will definitely provide more power with a 240V welder, even if the breaker is only 20 amps. Wattage is amps times volts. So you can get double the wattage from a 20A, 240V receptacle vs. a 20A, 120V receptacle.
Depending on the welder, you may not be able to turn it up all the way on a 20A receptacle. But I have inverter welders with power factor correction that can provide nearly 200 amps of output with 20A input at 240V.
@@bigtb1717 Thanks for the reply! Again i have randomly been googling this topic for a over a year with no answer. Again thank you so much! Subbed!
No problem. Here is another video where I show amperage draw on 120V and 240V from a variety of different inverter stick welders.
th-cam.com/video/fzkD9Zkt0K8/w-d-xo.html
@@bigtb1717 Hey just wanted to let you know I bought a 50amp plasma cutter and a 180amp mig welder and I was able to run them no problem on my my 220v 20amp circuit. Just wanted to thanks you for your video. Without it I would still be wishing I could get a welder and plasma cutter from what the internet says. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
Even it may not immediately trip the breaker, i am worry about the temperature of the wire inside the wall.
Technically, one of the main jobs of the breaker is to protect the wire. So if the wire and breaker are sized and installed correctly, the thermal trip mechanism in the breaker should heat up and trip before the wire heats up too much.
But if there is a poor connection or a particularly well-insulated section of wire, it could theoretically heat up more than it otherwise should. It's one of the reasons I'm always happy to reduce current draw whenever I can. Current plus resistance creates heat. Excess heat over time can cause all kinds of issues, up to and including fire if the situation gets bad enough. Still, as long as there are no issues with your wiring, you should be okay.
My welder keeps tripping the breaker, I think when I run it super hot and for a long time, I have asked other welders and they say I need a bigger breaker outlet and wires, for example I’m probably running a 15 amp breaker and outlet and they say I need something bigger like a 20 or 30 amp breaker outlet and wires. Will that fix it?
Thank you
Vlad
From your description of the problem, it sounds like a higher amperage breaker would help a lot, and possibly eliminate the issue entirely. As you say, you would need a higher amperage breaker as well as an outlet and wiring that could safely support the higher amperage.
My old cebora pocket mig asks for a 20 amp circuit but if you run it on max it will trip the breaker after 5 seconds. I switched the circuit to a 30amp
I have a vulcan 215 and i use the 120 plugin rated for 20v but it keep popping breaker after continuous runs. But i have a 240 plug that can be hooked to a 30 amp breaker On my generator. If i hook my 240 plug to 30 amp plugin. Will i lose the issue? I have a predator 9000 watt generator.
If you run a similar amperage setting on the welder to what you are running now, you will likely have no problem. But if you max the welder out, it may pull more than 30 amps. I can't say for sure, because I never measured the 215 when I had it.
Hi. I want to know can that Chicago Electric 125 fluxcore welder run off of 15 amp circuit or would it blow the fuse?
It probably would run on a 15 amp circuit, but it also would probably trip pretty quick if you ran it maxed out.
@bigtb1717 ok. I think somebody on youtube said you might run the C.E. welder up to a level 6, without blowing a fuse on a 15 amp curcuit. Do you think that sounds about right?
I tried two of them and both ran a bit different at similar settings. So I can't say for sure exactly what setting would work for you.
@@bigtb1717 ok. Did that welder pull over 15 amps , with the level selector on 6?
Unfortunately, I didn't test output at various settings and I don't have the welders anymore to do further testing.
I bought a small stick welding plan able to weld up to 250 amps. The machine is capable of running on both 110 and 220v current, however the input plug is a 20amp t styled 220 plug. I've made an adapter that allows for the Male 20amp plug to draw regular 15amp current from a regular 110v outlet. I'm electrically impaired 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Can you give me a dumbed down answer as to why this is okay or not?
It's not safe
Great video and good to know information. I'm wondering if you have checked the amp draw from the Juba ZX7-200 with your adapter at it's max setting? This type of video is very interesting to me and thanks for posting it. Take care :)
I haven't checked it yet, but I plan to check a bunch of different welders eventually. I was running out of time yesterday and decided to make this video more about the concept and to explain breakers a bit. I am curious if there is a significant difference in welder efficiency between cheaper and more expensive welders.
@@bigtb1717 Nice! Looking forward to the video when you get a chance to do the testing. Have a good day :)
Thanks, you too. I'm looking forward to it as well. I plan to test out 4 or 5 welders on 120V and 240V. I'll match their output (actually measure it rather than relying on the display) so that I'm getting the same amperage out, then I'll check and compare their amp draw. It will be interesting to see the amp draw in general, but also to see if there is a meaningful difference in efficiency. Really busy with work and projects around the house, not to mention other videos. I hope it isn't too long before I can get it done, but time goes fast, so we'll see.
If I have a 220v 50A outlet, but its 3 prong twist lock style, & I use an adapter that says it's 30A on the twist side to 50A on welder side, does that mean I only have a 30A breaker since the twist lock will heat up over 30A? ....
Also, running a 50 ft long cord...guessing that ups the resistance a lot.
The only way to know for sure what size breaker you have is to physically check and verify. Technically the breaker should be sized to protect the circuit, not necessarily the stuff you plug in. For example, you might plug a lamp with a 10 amp rated cord into a 15 or 20 amp circuit. So your 30 amp rated adapter may be fine, but if your welder is rated at a higher effective current draw than 30 amps, you will probably want to check that adapter occasionally to make sure it isn’t heating up.
A 50 foot extension cord may be fine, but it will depend on the draw of the welder and on the wire gauge if the cord.
@@bigtb1717 Thanks for gettin back to me :) That helps a lot.. I picked up a really high quality weld specific cord, so hopefully it'll be all good.
My Titanium Easy Flux 125 is tripping my 20amp breaker welding 3/16" after about 30 seconds. The circuit is 10/2 wire but standard outlets are only 20amp so I could put in a 30amp breaker then the weak point is the outlet. I guess I could put in a 30amp outlet but then I would need an adapter like in the video to plug in the welder.
My recommendation if you are going to do it is to put in a 30 amp outlet. Making an adapter or changing the plug on your welder is inconvenient and you probably wouldn't have an issue with a 20 amp outlet, but you never know what might happen down the road. I've seen outlets burn up (as in, become a smoking pool of molten plastic and charred metal) when run for a while with too much current. I've seen it several times over the years and it was incredibly lucky it didn't cause a fire. Overcurrent leads to heat which leads to increased resistance, which leads to more heat...
If my welder has amp draw less then 30 amps but has a 50 amp plug should I get an adapter that would on a 30 amp breaker
No. A "50 amp" plug just means it is rated for 50 amps max. Using less is no problem at all.
@@bigtb1717 thanks for responding so fast
I have a 160 mig welder and it tack weld all day but when I try to do a long bead or fill a large hole it trips the breaker. It’s an electric welder that plugs into a standard American wall plug. ( I do have it plugged into an extension cord to the garage). I don’t know what I need to do to prevent it from doing that. It’s frustrating that it’ll do that every time I try to do a long bead and I worry it’ll cause an electrical problem with my house with it constantly doing that
Do you know if you are running the welder on a 15A circuit or a 20A circuit?
Turning down the output of the welder could reduce the number of breaker trips you get, but that's only a good option if what you are doing can actually be done at a lower output.
If you need the amount of output you are set for and you are already running on a 20A circuit, there really isn't anything else you can do to prevent the issue. If you only have access to 15 amp circuits, then you will be fairly limited in the amount of power you can get out of a welder.
Honestly idk if it has another option I’ll have to check but I’m sure I can still weld the scrap art I’m trying to make even the frame to my motorcycles at a lower out put cause it’s all pretty thin metal. I’m going to hopefully try later today thank you for your help. Great video by the way.
Did you ever check the current draw on the HF 125 with the rectifier and capacitor and compare it to the welder
when it was AC output?
The draw from the wall shouldn't be any different, but I can check it to be sure. I plan to make a video testing more welders, but I didn't have a lot of time when I was putting this video together. I just finished putting the adapters together when I started this video. I'll be doing more tests at some point.
Thanks for the fast response. I also
have a titanium 125. So my thought is
that I can convert my rectifier & capacitor modified 90 amp HF to
DCEP by swapping the output wires
on the rectifier. I have seen SS fluxcore
wire which calls for DCEP. I can use the
Titanium 125 for everything else .
The SS FC is expensive but I have a
repair on a SS exhaust brace on a boat.
The brace is not critical so a weld failure
Isn't dangerous.
If you have a DC converted 90 amp model it should be no problem to swap the leads and get DCEP. However, that stainless wire specifies higher voltage than that welder will provide. I haven't tried it (I've considered trying it for a video) so I can't say for sure. I have seen people use standard flux core wire on stainless steel for non-critacal welds. The welded area won't be stainless/rust-resistant and it will look a little ugly, but I believe it will work.
Just a thought, you might want to swap the polarity on the capacitors as well.
Thanks for the info. How much voltage
Is required for SS FC? I believe the HF 90 operates at about 17 volts.
Great evaluation but I still do not understand how my Miller 235 has a full duty of 60 at 170 amps and requires only a 50 amp breaker. That is 120 amps greater than the breaker for 6 minutes.
Thanks again! Great presentation!
170 amps is the output current, not the input current. So your welder can output 170 amps for 6 out of every 10 minutes. However, when putting out 170 amps of welding current, it will be drawing far less current than this from the supply circuit.
You are probably supplying your welder with 240V input. At 170 amps of output it may be putting out 25-26 volts or so. So with 240V input, the welder may only have to draw 30 amps of current (assuming some losses and imperfect power factor).
What About Running The Welder Through A Step Up/Down Converter?
Wouldn't really help. For example, a 120V only welder wouldn't run properly on 240V, so you couldn't step the voltage up without damaging the welder or at least causing it to run improperly. Even if it technically worked, you would still be drawing just as much from the wall going into the step-up transformer. More actually, once you factor in losses inside the transformer. If you step 240V down to 120V for the welder you will be drawing less from the wall, but at that point you could just use a 240V welder and get more performance. Not to mention the size and cost of a transformer large enough to run the welder.
I thought all, excluded speciality 100% rated devices, over-current devices can trip once you exceed 80% of it current rating. Is that correct?
The 80% rating isn't the trip point. An 80% and a 100% rated "20 amp" breaker may or may not have the same trip curves (depends on the protection class and intent of the breaker). In other words, the trip curve and protection they offer to the circuit may be identical. The 80% or 100% rating is more of a duty cycle rating for the breaker itself, not about the protection it offers for the circuit.
The NEC specifies breakers as either 80% or 100% rated. A 100% rated breaker is permitted to be installed in a circuit where it will be run at 100% of its rated current carrying capacity, continuously. An 80% rated breaker is not permitted to be used in a circuit where it will run at 100% of its rated current carrying capacity continuously. An 80% rated breaker is permitted to be run at the full rating, but not continuously. I think the max is three hours. So an 80% breaker should not be used in a circuit where it will be expected to pass the full, rated current for more than 3 hours at a time. It's not about when it will trip, but more about how much heat will build up in the breaker over time if the full rated current is passing through it.
In other words, if you have a circuit that you know will pull 20 amps continuously (or for more than 3 hours at a time), but never more than that, you shouldn't use a 20A, 80% rated breaker, but you could use a 20A, 100% rated breaker. The 80% rated breaker may not be any more likely to trip than a 100% rated, 20 amp breaker but it would not meet code because it is not rated for that duty cycle.
@@bigtb1717 So I need to special order a 100% breaker since the residential and commercial markets sell 80% rated devices by default. Thank you for informative response. I plan on adding a welder in my shed and your video has really help me understand what I need to do in order to provide safe and consistent power for the welder.
@@jtwilliams721 Welders aren't constant duty cycle. No way you'll ever run a welder for three hours straight. The main thing is to size the breaker large enough for the expected load. You shouldn't need a 100% rated breaker.
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
All circuit breakers will allow maybe a 150% over current for at least 30 seconds before tripping. Never saw a small to medium size welder rated for more then a 30% duty cycle so even if you were welding and drawing 50% over current 30% of the time should be okay. In commercial shops I always ran a receptacle & circuit 125% larger then weldor nameplate amps. That way would never trip a circuit breaker.
120 volt circuit is 15 amps.
120V circuits are most commonly either 15 or 20 amps. I've seen some 10 amp circuits in some places, as well as 30 amps or more. Technically, if you use the right breaker and wire size, you could make a 120V circuit whatever amperage you wanted, assuming the supply (utility service, generator, etc.) could support it.
Question. Are you saying "any" 20 amp breaker would be fine for non-continuous runs? My manual says I need a 20amp "delayed action breaker" I have no clue if my breaker is delayed action. How can I tell? Or should I just plug it in and see what happens? Thanks, bud. good video
Most modern household breakers are delayed action (there should be a brand and model label on the breaker which could be used to verify) so I bet you are fine. All delayed action means is that they won't trip instantly when the current gets above 20 amps. If you aren't sure you can just plug the welder in and give it a shot. If it's a fast response breaker it will likely trip the instant you start welding, so you'll find out pretty quick. If you have an old panel with fuses instead of breakers it might be a good idea to check the label on the fuse and see what it says (fuses can have a time delay as well) before you pop a fuse and have to replace it. But older fuse panels are getting pretty uncommon these days, so you probably have breakers.
@@bigtb1717 Thanks, I do have breakers. Its my 1st welder. and will be the 1st time welding period. so I was concerned after reading the manual. Thanks so much for the response. I will give it a go tonight :)
I was welding with my Lincoln 180 off of an 8750 generator no problem.. then all the sudden the other day it starts tripping the breaker on the back of the welder . Tripping every 4 seconds
There are a couple possibilities. First, there could be a problem with the welder or even with the circuit breaker on the generator.
The other possibility is that the thermal trip unit in the breaker simply needed to cool down. If I describe this possibility you can probably decide from your experience if this could be what was happening. Assuming the breaker has a thermal trip function (most do), there is a metal element in the breaker which heats up any time more than a certain amount of current flows through it. If enough current flows through it for long enough, it will heat up enough to trip the breaker. If this happens and you quickly re-set the breaker and start drawing current through it again, that element it will already be near the trip temperature, so it will quickly trip again. After allowing the breaker some time to cool down it seems to hold for longer, then that's probably all it was.
However, if even after waiting a while for the breaker to cool it still trips within a few seconds, then I would go back to thinking it could be an issue with the breaker or the welder.