GOAT means "all time" Maru fought against all the best since the first GSL tournament, he is only played who royal roaded all 3 star leagues. Today SC2 is online tournaments.. Serral fought against foreigner plebs who have no achievement.. maybe Neeb, and that is it
Are you dumb? Wait you are....People are objectively 10x better now vs Maru hayday, Serral owns Maru and he the best. He's literally the GOAT how can you objectively think people were better 10 years ago then they are now?
One day TH-cam randomly recommended a uThermal video and dragged me back into Starcraft. I have been enjoying it ever since. Thanks Mark, I am glad that you are no longer suffering from anxiety any more.
Same here brother! I haven't played Starcraft and at least 8 months to a year, it's just too much to keep up on the apm, lol. Yeah I can watch people like you thermal, hearthstone, and winter craft doing his streaming, great content guys God bless you all!
Speed? heromarine got to GM playing with mouse only w/o keyboard, which is ~100 APM. For the vast majority of players, playing faster causes more mistakes.
As a player I like AoE4 more, gives me time to think. As a viewer, seeing a top-level SC2 player is way more fun than AoE4. Even if I don't play SC2 anymore.
I always compare SC2 to playing Need for Speed on 16x speed. At some point it's too fast. It's not only about having time to think. It's also that the game is bloated with mundane but required actions for which the time frame shrunk. And that you have to be hypervigilant about stuff appearing on the minimap, with faster units and speed boosts. And that the explosive economy streamlines gameplay since now it's most effective to expand, tech and build army at the same time which wasn't always like this.
Based and wholesome interview, thank you both for this. Been a uThermal subscriber for a while - I usually play video games instead of watching them, but when I watch them, its because I'm trash at games I love conceptually. Marc brings top level gameplay to SC2 where I cannot for myself, and makes things pretty accessible even to people who don't play much. I appreciate Marc's insights into his personal life and more serious topics, but I totally respect why he leaves a lot of that at the door for the content he creates on his own channels. @StarcraftHistorian this is a great format, I would like to see more of these kinds of interviews with top RTS pros.
Maybe im judging from my perspective, but it seems to me sc2 has an older fanbase, that has to make a living, and twitch just isnt viable for them. TH-cam, where you can just watch whenever have time, and its shorter more focused content, is much easier to watch for us. I watch a decent amount of sc2, but i never watch twitch. So imho twitch numbers might not be representative. I alos briefly checked esl sc2 archives videos viewerhip vs counterstrike, and it doesnt look that bad to me. Sure CS is bigger but maybe 2-3 times bigger, not an order of magnitude.
Very nice interview. Thank you for posting it! It was a pleasure listening to Marc, definitely one of my favorite people in the sc2 scene. Especially, as a former terran player myself I was really looking up to his streams and studying his gameplay to improve my own play.
A friend told me about uThermal's YT like a year ago or so, and after not playing for a hefty amount of years - I came back straight to it! one of the most entertaining content creators i've seen, so great job! and even got me to play again :)
Great interview, thanks to both! Really interesting and encouraging to know more about Marc story and experience! And very glad to hear the view on modern RTS, I remember the thrill of building the base and exploring, it's clearly the must part of the RTS for me, not only fighting!
24:29 Marc, I'd just like you to know that hearing "with some conditions you just can't" from someone who in their own words is disciplined, it was a healing moment. Thank you.
Great interview, thanks for doing this. Never played StarCraft, but always enjoyed watching the matches going way back. uThermal is my favorite SC2 personality and I watch his content religiously. It was nice seeing his non-play personality. Appreciate Marc for taking the the time doing this and for interview. Cheers!
One thing that is often not talked about but I think is VITAL to keeping alive the youtube viewership of Starcraft 2 is content built on it outside of pro play. Challenges are one thing, and they're really cool and I like Uthermal's challenge runs, but also there's just so much other stuff that other games simply do not have, like Bronze League Heroes was a huge thing when Husky did and later Winter, there was also Day9's Funday Monday, but nowadays there's even more stuff. Pig's Florencio files has over 200 episodes of funny matches, there's his Icyfar community challenges, there's Harstem's Rank Roulette and other game shows and let's not forget the giant in the room and by that I mean GiantGrantGames doing a Campaign and Mod content that went absolutely viral! There's also a lot of co-op content that I personally don't know much about, but the fact that I don't is a testament to how much Starcraft stuff exists still.
Uthermal has provided more than just great strategy, content and wit to the community, he shared his insight into the various stages of the game, his career and his life. He knows himself well enough that he ventures opinions that others may not agree with, but the delivery is always civil, honest and intelligent. I think his greatest contribution to SC2, and YT in general, is his humility, humor and pure love of discovering the frontier of what’s possible with the game. My older brother bought me StarCraft as well, so this interview hit home in the most delightfully unexpected way.
Dude, I was shocked to watch a recent match between him and Astrea in a tournament qualifier series. One game, he left with no gg. The next game, he left with “lol”. That’s straight up disrespectful and toxic. Literally never seen such an attitude in a tournament
@@stefanfrank7426 I did not know about that either. I only knew he’s a massive smurf & advocate of smurfs, which is a good enough reason to have no respect for
I always watch Marc to learn how to lose, learn and have fun. I feel you can see that he worked hard mentally to come to the point where he is OK with losing while still really caring about winning and feeling competitive. I think there is to learn a lot about how to approach life in general when looking at his attitude - how to find joy in moving forward.
One of the best icons of the SC2 scene, Lovely Uthermal, it was cool to hear his honest opinions on the game. Thanks for making these super cool interviews giving a deeper dive into what we have as Starcraft 2 currently ( excellent preparation and moderation on your part to conduct the interview!) Cheers to many more to come!
As a person dealing with anxiety all my life myself, I can say that... if you flip the narrative a bit it gets enormously better: The pain and suffering during the StarCraft loss was a super valuable lesson to actually deal with this s*it. But I am grateful that you share and give light to the mental health issues - it is super easy for people to forget that they are not alone with dealing with it. PS: It's time for a haircut, Marc ;)
I think the reason the "boring" macro is necessary is because of the basic human desire to be rewarded for their work and to feel competent. Being rewarded with what macro would bring you without macro (units) isn't exciting because you didn't work for those units. Seratonin is perhaps the most important brain chemical for experiencing happiness and it is released into our body as a reward when we are succeed with something difficult, and I think we experience seratonin whenever we successfully mount a succesful attack due to good macro and we get more seratonin when we win because of the extra challenge macro caused. I also thing macro aspects in a game make it more appealing for a wider audience. SC2 players often seem to enjoy city build games or similar, games that are basically only macro. Meanwhile, players who enjoy micro games like MOBAs might also be drawn to SC2 for it's micro aspects. Lastly I think it also does tie everything together very nicely, like art. It makes you feel like a general establishing frontlines, securing important locations for resources, only taking as much as you can chew. It requires a lot of effort and that is why we like it, because happiness has to be fought for.
@@tambaz2276 Dopamine is the short-term reward to boost you. It's what you experience when scrolling TikTok. It's the brains way of telling you "keep doing this". I think certain games, like sc2, can release seratonin which is what creates a greater and deeper sense of satisfaction. I think game designers focus too much on the short term reward felt when killing a unit, rather the much greater seratonin induced feeling of winning an entire game.
Fantastic listening to uThermal talk about different things. Small thing for me: it is weird having an interview where we only see the interviewee. Some cuts to you would make it more comfortable.
this was quite fun to watch, and you could see uthermals opinion on protoss as he tried to describe it politely haha also lots of respect for uthermal for being honest about his opinions
Marc you are my absolute favourite caster! (along with Rotti), I'm one of the many watching all of your videos, it's such a nice decompress after work, or just between stressful events... Please keep doing great job!
My man Uthermy, this guy is so chilling here and when commenting live in his games. It sounds weird to know about his struggles and I suffer for him. He is so entertainning, and I spend a good day after laughing with him, I noticed. ❤
cool interview. Maybe these new "non-macro" rts games could open a pathway for players to sc2. Where they first get used to some mechanics of most rts games and then when they can handle those, maybe they get an appetite for more.
He's so right about the macro As a kid, my absolute favourite thing and what I did 95% of the time, was building an impenetrable fortress that would let me build up the ultra omega army Not really relevant to the pro-scene but hey, different tastes for different skill levels
10:35 when i told my parents how i got picked for teams in SC or any pro scene, they laughed at me and told me that "no" and did everything in their power to hold me away from these things, I do be jelly of people gettin to live these experiences as i was not allowed, had to sneakily do. couldve potentially gotten somewhere if allowed to grow.
SC2 balance ideas or in the spirit of change: overseers could get a contamination cloud ability and any air units that afk in a cloud would temporarily be under that zerg players control. infestors could spew parasites around them in a ground aoe and ground units get slight damage nerf + wander so they are less effective fighting and they will randomly move on their own they way critter wander works
As someone working on my own RTS game in my own engine I have to say, even though there are "better engines" available nowadays, none of them are set up well for RTS. RTS games have a really specific set of challenges to overcome and most engines will be helpful for rendering, but that's about it. For most other stuff RTS games demand custom solutions to problems. Case in point is Stormgate, which even after all this money and dev time still has a LOT of issues.
One of my biggest hang ups about competitive Starcraft is Life's match fixing. That kid was special. Still really mad at him for ruining his life and taking away what would have been amazing games.
It's so weird that whenever people talk about upcoming RTS, they never mention Beyond All Reason. I'm having more fun there than I had with SC2 since LotV release. And Stormgate is in a pre-alpha state anyway, and an unfinished one at that.
What game is he talking about at 1:12:40 ? Battle Aces? But he talks about macro afther that and that was a bit missleading since battle aces doesn't have that much macro...
I was thinking same thing. But I agree 100% when he talks that ZeroSpace has too much stuff. The game has the best look and units from the new RTS, but could use 1/3 of the features.
I wish I could play the game that I bought. WOL was the best incarnation of SC2, and I want to go back Brood War was the best incarnation of SC and I want to go back.
sc2 is just really good after all the recent adjustments, based on uthermals description i got quite interested in zerospace actually i personally didnt enjoy stormgate at all, and battle aces seemed super boring too (if you want a minimalist rts go play tooth and tail its a masterpiece) beyond all reason is really cool and im glad marks gives it a shoutout
Really agree with Uthermal's opinions on the GOAT, really fair assessment and consideration of different counter arguments. Maru was never a dominant player or a #1 player in 2013-2016. He was a top player especially towards the end of HotS yes, but there were other players top HotS players too like Innovation, Taeja, Life, sOs etc. If you try to argue "Sure Serral is better than Maru the last few years, but Maru did well during the most competitive era 2013-2016, so that puts him above Serral", well it's just a bit weird to choose a GOAT who wasn't a clear #1 during any point in time (for a period of a year or more for it to really count).
34:18 "kespa players didn't really start to dominate until 2015" that isn't true at all. There was only one (1) GSL final between 2013 and 2016 that even featured a non-kespa player (2015 S3 PartinG vs Life). Kespa players became the best in Korea almost straight away. Rain, Soulkey, and INnoVation became champions within months, Dear, soO, Zest, herO, and sOs followed right after. The next best in Korean like Rogue, Cure, Stats, TY, and Solar were all Kespa players as well. Maru and Life were basically the only non-kespa champions in Korea for all of HotS
Protoss is strong but just hard to be consistent with, which makes it bad for tournament formats. Protoss is really good but the coinflippy aspect makes it hard to not lose two series in a double elim format even if your overall win rate could be really high.
I think another huge issue with "next gen RTS" will always be engine. SC2 engine no matter what RTS i attempt to play or go back to just feels smooth as butter. Every other game feels like my units are not really responding correctly, taking forever to readjust just lost a 3rd of my army to it not responding in time might lose the game now. and its just a toxic experience all around. I feel like there are quite a few games if they "worked properly" could give sc2 a good contest. But they never had a staff as talented as blizzards to design it.
starcraft 2 is cool, because you will actually be able to use all mechanics it has at all levels of play yet absolute perfect gameplay still unreachable. it's easy to get inspired by pros. Fun to try things you find cool, doesn't matter if you bronze or GM, you will not be overwhelmed by mechanics. i played battle aces beta and there like 1/5 mecahnics of sc2 so basically game is solved by pros in 2 days lol. Zerospace on the other hand yeah.....
New subscriber here, just wanted to mention that you need a better, less rigid interview format. I love the idea, and I’m happy you’re doing what you’re doing but I feel like the questions, specially at the beginning feel forced. Maybe it’s your comfort level but I think it can be better. Hope it helps :)
i disagree with uthermal that other rts games should be similar to sc2 i think its very important that they innovate and do something different but i definitely agree that macro is so satisfying to do, and i actually think that creep spread is the most enjoyable part of playing zerg
I don't understand some of these statements :D If zerospace has a lot of stuff but less macro and feels overwhelming, it's mostly because one is not used to it. Marc being able to talk and play sc 2 at the same time comes from decades of automating the game; sc 2 would probably absolutely not be named as a game that you can easily pick up and talk while playing, the same is probably very true for zerospace. I have high hopes for games like BAR even though i dislike BAR itself a lot and prefer the old supreme commanders because they feel so much more like strategy games instead of tactical-positioning-games like SC 2 is. You can play an awful strategy and just win by outmicroing/out-multitasking your opponent (that's marc's main stick); that's not really all that much about strategy then. That's also always what bugged me about sc 2: the game has so many limitations build into it because of some unit systems being the way they are like the need for choke points on main and nat, the need for a million cliffs everywhere on the map because air units would suck balls otherwise, the need for identical base layouts etc.
On the topic of people sticking to wc3 or broodwar and you feeling like you get them now... I don't think sc2 is like those games. Sc2 is just the goat; It's 14 years old at this point, but it still looks better, sounds better, feels better, has more content, etc... etc... than any modern rts. People staying in broodwar is 100% nostalgia. Sc2 is the superior game, and it's a shame, but I don't think any modern rts' are going to surpass it for at least another 5-10 years (if ever).
I agree creep spread is a chore. I'd also so much like to just ditch the whole worker micro thing. The whole process of building up a crowd of resource gatherers that are gathering crystal or gas or wood, etc., which runs out over time, all the while you have to try to defend them and move them out of the way and so on - waste them trying to use them as emergency fighting units when you're caught with your pants down - that whole thing is something I've always really wanted to just ditch. Just throw it out. Just have resource patches strewn about the map of various flavors and sizes that you can build a particular building on, depending on the flavor and size of the patch, with a construction worker, and then that building automatically gathers from the patch under it, which is a permanent patch that never runs out. And you can use the worker to upgrade it like a tower, and/or put other towers and barriers around it. The gathering buildings can be destroyed, of course, but you can upgrade their armor and defenses and shielding and so on. I understand wanting to have some kind of timer on the game to prevent it from just lasting forever, but doing that by having resources run out is just.. I hate that. There has to be a better way to put a time limit on things than by making resources run out. Maybe there's a tech tree that both players are working their way up through during the game, and the first person to reach one of the major leaf nodes has such a big advantage that they just win, and you can control the rate at which your resources are being used to pursue the various parts of that process. Maybe there are three or five of those leaf nodes, and once you reach one, it's not available to the other player. So one player or the other is eventually going to end up with a big advantage. Maybe things are tuned so that that's likely to happen after somewhere between 10 and 20 minutes of play. Either focus on overwhelming them early, or focus on turtling up and surviving while you scramble up the tree. Or see saw between a combination of both. But you don't go backwards, so eventually one player gets there, and then they just win - unless your army size and state advantage at that point is so big that you can wipe them out before they can use their new tech advantage. The trouble with discussions of mechanics like this, though, is that you can't hardly get any two people to agree about them. Probably almost no one would say that they like those ideas of mine, for example.. every person would instead have their own ideas.. which would all be different from each other and no one would like any of those ideas either. I wonder if maybe SC became popular because it had WarCraft 1 and 2 behind it, and, like its predecessors, it was spectacular, for its time, at story and cinematics and music and sound and packaging and so on. Marketing and business dealings. Mechanics barely matter - s/he who markets and handles their business dealings best wins.
Why is Stormgate aka Mobilegate in the thumbnail (or everywhere on your website)? Really hard to take the once noble RTS community serious when this trash gets pushed so hard.
You can easily live on 20k a year in great majority of the world not "survive in some very, very low income area amounting to 10% of the world". What a bizarre USA take.
I always feel like I need therapy after listening to uthermal speak English. The tonal fluctuations are so extreme I get dizzy. It’s honestly a very unpleasant experience.
GOAT means "all time" Maru fought against all the best since the first GSL tournament, he is only played who royal roaded all 3 star leagues. Today SC2 is online tournaments.. Serral fought against foreigner plebs who have no achievement.. maybe Neeb, and that is it
We found the dumbest comment friends
Are you dumb? Wait you are....People are objectively 10x better now vs Maru hayday, Serral owns Maru and he the best. He's literally the GOAT how can you objectively think people were better 10 years ago then they are now?
worst take possible lol
😂❤
One day TH-cam randomly recommended a uThermal video and dragged me back into Starcraft. I have been enjoying it ever since. Thanks Mark, I am glad that you are no longer suffering from anxiety any more.
same exact thing happened to me. The guy is just so wholesome
Same here brother! I haven't played Starcraft and at least 8 months to a year, it's just too much to keep up on the apm, lol. Yeah I can watch people like you thermal, hearthstone, and winter craft doing his streaming, great content guys God bless you all!
Ha! Same
Yup. He feeds the algo just right.
Same here!
Uthermal is why I'm still into SC2
Marc is a good reason to stick around 😋
I see uThermal and I watch.
Appreciate you pal!
Awesome interview. I don't normally watch these in their entirety but I watched this one all the way through.
1:02:35 Glad you took the dive! This was a lovely and interesting interview, I'm glad to have you both.
I am only mildly interested in starcraft. But I watch uThermal videos because his banter is as good as therapy. Never change Marc.
A lot of fun watching UThermal challanges. The speed is what makes SC2 so unique. The crazy games are harder to see in slow RTS games.
I Love how people complain about speed in rts when only starcraft2 only has that speed. All other rts rn is slow.
Speed? heromarine got to GM playing with mouse only w/o keyboard, which is ~100 APM. For the vast majority of players, playing faster causes more mistakes.
@@평양시1 I was talking more like unit speed, economy and specially fast damage. But APM is also part.
As a player I like AoE4 more, gives me time to think. As a viewer, seeing a top-level SC2 player is way more fun than AoE4. Even if I don't play SC2 anymore.
I always compare SC2 to playing Need for Speed on 16x speed. At some point it's too fast.
It's not only about having time to think. It's also that the game is bloated with mundane but required actions for which the time frame shrunk. And that you have to be hypervigilant about stuff appearing on the minimap, with faster units and speed boosts. And that the explosive economy streamlines gameplay since now it's most effective to expand, tech and build army at the same time which wasn't always like this.
Based and wholesome interview, thank you both for this. Been a uThermal subscriber for a while - I usually play video games instead of watching them, but when I watch them, its because I'm trash at games I love conceptually. Marc brings top level gameplay to SC2 where I cannot for myself, and makes things pretty accessible even to people who don't play much. I appreciate Marc's insights into his personal life and more serious topics, but I totally respect why he leaves a lot of that at the door for the content he creates on his own channels.
@StarcraftHistorian this is a great format, I would like to see more of these kinds of interviews with top RTS pros.
So glad you enjoyed my work. I’ve done a bunch of interviews with other top RTS people! Check em out on my channel 😁.
Maybe im judging from my perspective, but it seems to me sc2 has an older fanbase, that has to make a living, and twitch just isnt viable for them. TH-cam, where you can just watch whenever have time, and its shorter more focused content, is much easier to watch for us. I watch a decent amount of sc2, but i never watch twitch. So imho twitch numbers might not be representative. I alos briefly checked esl sc2 archives videos viewerhip vs counterstrike, and it doesnt look that bad to me. Sure CS is bigger but maybe 2-3 times bigger, not an order of magnitude.
Very nice interview. Thank you for posting it!
It was a pleasure listening to Marc, definitely one of my favorite people in the sc2 scene. Especially, as a former terran player myself I was really looking up to his streams and studying his gameplay to improve my own play.
The most charming dude in SC. Can fall asleep to Marc’s vids haha
Such a cool thing to get to know uThermal a bit more, somebody I watch on a daily basis :D, Thanks Mr. Historian !
A friend told me about uThermal's YT like a year ago or so, and after not playing for a hefty amount of years - I came back straight to it! one of the most entertaining content creators i've seen, so great job! and even got me to play again :)
uThermal and Mana esports are my favorite SC2 channels. Their crazy challenges to Grandmaster are just so fun to watch.
oh dang he gave a shout out to Beyond All Reason, nice. I've been having tons of fun with that lately and getting my friends into it.
Thank you TH-cam algorithm and uThermal for showing me this channel, looks interesting :)
Thanks for coming pal!
Loved it! Good job on both of you. Marc, thanks for being so open hearted about your path.
Great interview, thanks to both! Really interesting and encouraging to know more about Marc story and experience! And very glad to hear the view on modern RTS, I remember the thrill of building the base and exploring, it's clearly the must part of the RTS for me, not only fighting!
24:29 Marc, I'd just like you to know that hearing "with some conditions you just can't" from someone who in their own words is disciplined, it was a healing moment. Thank you.
Great interview, thanks for doing this. Never played StarCraft, but always enjoyed watching the matches going way back. uThermal is my favorite SC2 personality and I watch his content religiously. It was nice seeing his non-play personality. Appreciate Marc for taking the the time doing this and for interview. Cheers!
Marc should make uThermal3 where he talks about real life while cheesing like a baboon
Agreed
He could play as random, only cheese / cheese inspired, username ideas: aRandomBaboon, uBaboon, PrimateTalk, Baboonery.... taking suggestions
Such a funny and charismatic bloke Mark, love your videos mate. Keep it up from Australia!
One thing that is often not talked about but I think is VITAL to keeping alive the youtube viewership of Starcraft 2 is content built on it outside of pro play.
Challenges are one thing, and they're really cool and I like Uthermal's challenge runs, but also there's just so much other stuff that other games simply do not have, like Bronze League Heroes was a huge thing when Husky did and later Winter, there was also Day9's Funday Monday, but nowadays there's even more stuff. Pig's Florencio files has over 200 episodes of funny matches, there's his Icyfar community challenges, there's Harstem's Rank Roulette and other game shows and let's not forget the giant in the room and by that I mean GiantGrantGames doing a Campaign and Mod content that went absolutely viral!
There's also a lot of co-op content that I personally don't know much about, but the fact that I don't is a testament to how much Starcraft stuff exists still.
Uthermal has provided more than just great strategy, content and wit to the community, he shared his insight into the various stages of the game, his career and his life. He knows himself well enough that he ventures opinions that others may not agree with, but the delivery is always civil, honest and intelligent. I think his greatest contribution to SC2, and YT in general, is his humility, humor and pure love of discovering the frontier of what’s possible with the game. My older brother bought me StarCraft as well, so this interview hit home in the most delightfully unexpected way.
uThermal's content makes my day tbh.
Dude, I was shocked to watch a recent match between him and Astrea in a tournament qualifier series.
One game, he left with no gg. The next game, he left with “lol”.
That’s straight up disrespectful and toxic. Literally never seen such an attitude in a tournament
People forget how toxic he used to be back when he played against people on his level.
@@stefanfrank7426 I did not know about that either. I only knew he’s a massive smurf & advocate of smurfs, which is a good enough reason to have no respect for
I always watch Marc to learn how to lose, learn and have fun.
I feel you can see that he worked hard mentally to come to the point where he is OK with losing while still really caring about winning and feeling competitive.
I think there is to learn a lot about how to approach life in general when looking at his attitude - how to find joy in moving forward.
One of the best icons of the SC2 scene, Lovely Uthermal, it was cool to hear his honest opinions on the game. Thanks for making these super cool interviews giving a deeper dive into what we have as Starcraft 2 currently ( excellent preparation and moderation on your part to conduct the interview!)
Cheers to many more to come!
As a person dealing with anxiety all my life myself, I can say that... if you flip the narrative a bit it gets enormously better: The pain and suffering during the StarCraft loss was a super valuable lesson to actually deal with this s*it. But I am grateful that you share and give light to the mental health issues - it is super easy for people to forget that they are not alone with dealing with it.
PS: It's time for a haircut, Marc ;)
Great interview! 👌
Such a good interview!!
Thank you Marc for getting me back into SC2❤
I think the reason the "boring" macro is necessary is because of the basic human desire to be rewarded for their work and to feel competent. Being rewarded with what macro would bring you without macro (units) isn't exciting because you didn't work for those units. Seratonin is perhaps the most important brain chemical for experiencing happiness and it is released into our body as a reward when we are succeed with something difficult, and I think we experience seratonin whenever we successfully mount a succesful attack due to good macro and we get more seratonin when we win because of the extra challenge macro caused.
I also thing macro aspects in a game make it more appealing for a wider audience. SC2 players often seem to enjoy city build games or similar, games that are basically only macro. Meanwhile, players who enjoy micro games like MOBAs might also be drawn to SC2 for it's micro aspects.
Lastly I think it also does tie everything together very nicely, like art. It makes you feel like a general establishing frontlines, securing important locations for resources, only taking as much as you can chew. It requires a lot of effort and that is why we like it, because happiness has to be fought for.
you make the classic error of confusing serotonin with dopamine but yeah, overall I agree
@@tambaz2276 Dopamine is the short-term reward to boost you. It's what you experience when scrolling TikTok. It's the brains way of telling you "keep doing this". I think certain games, like sc2, can release seratonin which is what creates a greater and deeper sense of satisfaction.
I think game designers focus too much on the short term reward felt when killing a unit, rather the much greater seratonin induced feeling of winning an entire game.
Fantastic listening to uThermal talk about different things. Small thing for me: it is weird having an interview where we only see the interviewee. Some cuts to you would make it more comfortable.
Uthermal es el mas divertido de ver! se le ocurren muy buenas ideas, no late game = fun!
this was quite fun to watch, and you could see uthermals opinion on protoss as he tried to describe it politely haha
also lots of respect for uthermal for being honest about his opinions
Marc you are my absolute favourite caster! (along with Rotti), I'm one of the many watching all of your videos, it's such a nice decompress after work, or just between stressful events... Please keep doing great job!
My man Uthermy, this guy is so chilling here and when commenting live in his games. It sounds weird to know about his struggles and I suffer for him. He is so entertainning, and I spend a good day after laughing with him, I noticed. ❤
Awesome interview
Respect for shouting out BAR!
Great work.
Such a wholesome guy
Whoa, I actually heavily relate to Uthermal and his conditions. Unfortunately, I do have adhd though T.T
cool interview. Maybe these new "non-macro" rts games could open a pathway for players to sc2. Where they first get used to some mechanics of most rts games and then when they can handle those, maybe they get an appetite for more.
He's so right about the macro
As a kid, my absolute favourite thing and what I did 95% of the time, was building an impenetrable fortress that would let me build up the ultra omega army
Not really relevant to the pro-scene but hey, different tastes for different skill levels
10:35 when i told my parents how i got picked for teams in SC or any pro scene, they laughed at me and told me that "no" and did everything in their power to hold me away from these things, I do be jelly of people gettin to live these experiences as i was not allowed, had to sneakily do. couldve potentially gotten somewhere if allowed to grow.
we all love uthermal
SC2 balance ideas or in the spirit of change: overseers could get a contamination cloud ability and any air units that afk in a cloud would temporarily be under that zerg players control. infestors could spew parasites around them in a ground aoe and ground units get slight damage nerf + wander so they are less effective fighting and they will randomly move on their own they way critter wander works
Great content! I like how he is praising BAR (Beyond All Reason) and I hope for videos him playing it. Pretty please Thermy 😄
GREAT JOB
As someone working on my own RTS game in my own engine I have to say, even though there are "better engines" available nowadays, none of them are set up well for RTS. RTS games have a really specific set of challenges to overcome and most engines will be helpful for rendering, but that's about it. For most other stuff RTS games demand custom solutions to problems. Case in point is Stormgate, which even after all this money and dev time still has a LOT of issues.
One of my biggest hang ups about competitive Starcraft is Life's match fixing. That kid was special. Still really mad at him for ruining his life and taking away what would have been amazing games.
As a casual what I wish is that they let us have a normal speed ladder for sc2
I love this guy! #gouthermal
It's so weird that whenever people talk about upcoming RTS, they never mention Beyond All Reason. I'm having more fun there than I had with SC2 since LotV release. And Stormgate is in a pre-alpha state anyway, and an unfinished one at that.
Shout out to SirPlease his brother, great guy. He really does keep it alive.
Didn’t know his ID, thanks for that!
It's a _bit_ misleading to smack the Stormgate logo onto the thumbnail when it barely even gets mentioned, but otherwise a solid interview.
What game is he talking about at 1:12:40 ? Battle Aces? But he talks about macro afther that and that was a bit missleading since battle aces doesn't have that much macro...
I was thinking same thing. But I agree 100% when he talks that ZeroSpace has too much stuff. The game has the best look and units from the new RTS, but could use 1/3 of the features.
I wish I could play the game that I bought. WOL was the best incarnation of SC2, and I want to go back
Brood War was the best incarnation of SC and I want to go back.
Tournament in Bulgaria?
liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Bellum_Gens_Elite
sc2 is just really good after all the recent adjustments, based on uthermals description i got quite interested in zerospace actually
i personally didnt enjoy stormgate at all, and battle aces seemed super boring too (if you want a minimalist rts go play tooth and tail its a masterpiece)
beyond all reason is really cool and im glad marks gives it a shoutout
Such is Life ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Definitely miss the player, but true
Really agree with Uthermal's opinions on the GOAT, really fair assessment and consideration of different counter arguments.
Maru was never a dominant player or a #1 player in 2013-2016. He was a top player especially towards the end of HotS yes, but there were other players top HotS players too like Innovation, Taeja, Life, sOs etc. If you try to argue "Sure Serral is better than Maru the last few years, but Maru did well during the most competitive era 2013-2016, so that puts him above Serral", well it's just a bit weird to choose a GOAT who wasn't a clear #1 during any point in time (for a period of a year or more for it to really count).
love thermy
Maru was also a faster player early in his career. No reason to think life couldn’t do the same when life was the maru of zerg.
34:18 "kespa players didn't really start to dominate until 2015" that isn't true at all. There was only one (1) GSL final between 2013 and 2016 that even featured a non-kespa player (2015 S3 PartinG vs Life).
Kespa players became the best in Korea almost straight away. Rain, Soulkey, and INnoVation became champions within months, Dear, soO, Zest, herO, and sOs followed right after. The next best in Korean like Rogue, Cure, Stats, TY, and Solar were all Kespa players as well. Maru and Life were basically the only non-kespa champions in Korea for all of HotS
Protoss is strong but just hard to be consistent with, which makes it bad for tournament formats. Protoss is really good but the coinflippy aspect makes it hard to not lose two series in a double elim format even if your overall win rate could be really high.
I know he doesn’t play SC2 anymore, but can u do one with BeastyQT? He was the original GOAT of “X unit to GM” series.
I think another huge issue with "next gen RTS" will always be engine. SC2 engine no matter what RTS i attempt to play or go back to just feels smooth as butter. Every other game feels like my units are not really responding correctly, taking forever to readjust just lost a 3rd of my army to it not responding in time might lose the game now. and its just a toxic experience all around. I feel like there are quite a few games if they "worked properly" could give sc2 a good contest. But they never had a staff as talented as blizzards to design it.
starcraft 2 is cool, because you will actually be able to use all mechanics it has at all levels of play yet absolute perfect gameplay still unreachable. it's easy to get inspired by pros. Fun to try things you find cool, doesn't matter if you bronze or GM, you will not be overwhelmed by mechanics. i played battle aces beta and there like 1/5 mecahnics of sc2 so basically game is solved by pros in 2 days lol. Zerospace on the other hand yeah.....
Absolutely agree on Life. He would have been a long time miracle in the world of starcraft. Basically a superhuman. But he choose gambling ^_^
New subscriber here, just wanted to mention that you need a better, less rigid interview format. I love the idea, and I’m happy you’re doing what you’re doing but I feel like the questions, specially at the beginning feel forced. Maybe it’s your comfort level but I think it can be better. Hope it helps :)
i disagree with uthermal that other rts games should be similar to sc2 i think its very important that they innovate and do something different
but i definitely agree that macro is so satisfying to do, and i actually think that creep spread is the most enjoyable part of playing zerg
I don't understand some of these statements :D If zerospace has a lot of stuff but less macro and feels overwhelming, it's mostly because one is not used to it. Marc being able to talk and play sc 2 at the same time comes from decades of automating the game; sc 2 would probably absolutely not be named as a game that you can easily pick up and talk while playing, the same is probably very true for zerospace.
I have high hopes for games like BAR even though i dislike BAR itself a lot and prefer the old supreme commanders because they feel so much more like strategy games instead of tactical-positioning-games like SC 2 is. You can play an awful strategy and just win by outmicroing/out-multitasking your opponent (that's marc's main stick); that's not really all that much about strategy then. That's also always what bugged me about sc 2: the game has so many limitations build into it because of some unit systems being the way they are like the need for choke points on main and nat, the need for a million cliffs everywhere on the map because air units would suck balls otherwise, the need for identical base layouts etc.
thermy is simply the best
We can feel that you hate Protoss man, no worries 😉
On the topic of people sticking to wc3 or broodwar and you feeling like you get them now... I don't think sc2 is like those games. Sc2 is just the goat; It's 14 years old at this point, but it still looks better, sounds better, feels better, has more content, etc... etc... than any modern rts. People staying in broodwar is 100% nostalgia. Sc2 is the superior game, and it's a shame, but I don't think any modern rts' are going to surpass it for at least another 5-10 years (if ever).
I agree creep spread is a chore.
I'd also so much like to just ditch the whole worker micro thing. The whole process of building up a crowd of resource gatherers that are gathering crystal or gas or wood, etc., which runs out over time, all the while you have to try to defend them and move them out of the way and so on - waste them trying to use them as emergency fighting units when you're caught with your pants down - that whole thing is something I've always really wanted to just ditch. Just throw it out.
Just have resource patches strewn about the map of various flavors and sizes that you can build a particular building on, depending on the flavor and size of the patch, with a construction worker, and then that building automatically gathers from the patch under it, which is a permanent patch that never runs out. And you can use the worker to upgrade it like a tower, and/or put other towers and barriers around it. The gathering buildings can be destroyed, of course, but you can upgrade their armor and defenses and shielding and so on.
I understand wanting to have some kind of timer on the game to prevent it from just lasting forever, but doing that by having resources run out is just.. I hate that. There has to be a better way to put a time limit on things than by making resources run out. Maybe there's a tech tree that both players are working their way up through during the game, and the first person to reach one of the major leaf nodes has such a big advantage that they just win, and you can control the rate at which your resources are being used to pursue the various parts of that process. Maybe there are three or five of those leaf nodes, and once you reach one, it's not available to the other player. So one player or the other is eventually going to end up with a big advantage. Maybe things are tuned so that that's likely to happen after somewhere between 10 and 20 minutes of play. Either focus on overwhelming them early, or focus on turtling up and surviving while you scramble up the tree. Or see saw between a combination of both. But you don't go backwards, so eventually one player gets there, and then they just win - unless your army size and state advantage at that point is so big that you can wipe them out before they can use their new tech advantage.
The trouble with discussions of mechanics like this, though, is that you can't hardly get any two people to agree about them. Probably almost no one would say that they like those ideas of mine, for example.. every person would instead have their own ideas.. which would all be different from each other and no one would like any of those ideas either. I wonder if maybe SC became popular because it had WarCraft 1 and 2 behind it, and, like its predecessors, it was spectacular, for its time, at story and cinematics and music and sound and packaging and so on. Marketing and business dealings. Mechanics barely matter - s/he who markets and handles their business dealings best wins.
L4D is an incredible game. Much better than L4D2.
actually in avg most of the world making 9k and less 🙂
This dude looks like mewtwoking.
Protoss is the strongest race
-Terran player
jk ily
This guy is probably on the balance council.. claiming protoss is the strongest? Hilarious.
Protoss is the strongest race and zerg the weakest 😂🤣
We can feel that you hate Protoss man, no worries…
Thanks for the laugh :)
Why is Stormgate aka Mobilegate in the thumbnail (or everywhere on your website)? Really hard to take the once noble RTS community serious when this trash gets pushed so hard.
I would lower my anxiety too if I only played against low league players. Dude is using mental health to excuse his antics.
You can easily live on 20k a year in great majority of the world not "survive in some very, very low income area amounting to 10% of the world". What a bizarre USA take.
dude lowered his anxiety by smurfing on gold league players, CLASSY.
he usually just smurfs on grandmasters
@@dj_koen1265 Nice try, you can literally see the opponents diamond borders in the videos.
"It´s pretty cool"... really? This is how you interview people? I am interested, but you kill it in less than a minute. Shait.
All this guy does is hop on smurf accounts and beat up players way below his mmr. Why interview this guy? unsubscribed.
You sound fun, UThermal is a legend
Haf a great time
I subscribed to make up for this whiny loser
We now know who is still salty over the planetary rush.
penguin brothers victim
hap mack user.
??
Dude wtf are you talking about lol?
@@StarcraftHistorian he knows what im talking about.
Only people worse than hap mackers are hall vackers 😤
delusional lol.
I always feel like I need therapy after listening to uthermal speak English. The tonal fluctuations are so extreme I get dizzy. It’s honestly a very unpleasant experience.