Could A Dragonrider Claim A Second Dragon? | House Of The Dragon / ASOIAF Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- The bond between dragon and rider is still a subject that is clouded is mystery with more question's that we have answers. The World of ASOIAF and it's magic system still has a lot to be discovered with dragon lore being part of that. Given how vital Dragon's are in the dance of the dragons the TV adaptation House Of The Dragon some small throw away lines lead me to asking one question. Could a dragonrider claim a second dragon after their first had died? Both Aegon ii and Rhaenyra suggest that is possible, so in this video we take a look at the evidence for this.
Could A Dragonrider Claim A Second Dragon? | House Of The Dragon / ASOIAF Analysis
The Dance Of The Dragons will be the focus of the plot of the new HBO spin-off House Of The Dragon coming in 2022. So if you want to learn the story before we see HBO's take on it then this will be a very long-running series. Game Of Thrones / House of the dragon are HBO shows based on George R R Martin's A Song Of Ice And Fire series. The information in this video comes from the books a world of ice and fire as well as fire and blood.
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There’s a theory that The Cannibal may have been originally meant for Maegor and either hatched or approached him at a young age. But Maegor rejected him in hopes of claiming Balerion which caused the dragon to snap and become a beast that hated humans and its own kind. Would make for an interesting tie in to this if Maegor still had some sort of connection to another dragon while riding Balerion.
Idk just sounds way to far fetched too mee
Didn't they say the cannibal was there before aegons conquest
@@Daniel-ug4pu How come? It’s just a kid ditching his hatchling in hopes for a better dragon. The cannibal parallels balerion a lot.
@@brayden8193 Probably just a myth or a mistaken identity for the black dread. He’s small enough to fit inside caves and only eats eggs and hatchlings so I doubt he’s that big or old. I’ve always thought he’s around 120 years old.
@@brayden8193 The Cannibal’s reputation often leads to wild theories from some singers and historians as to just as long he’s lived. Most sources pin Vhagar as the oldest and largest dragon at the time of the Dance which means the Cannibal likely wasn’t born before the conquest. Even if it was it could’ve tried to approach or have been brought to Maegor when it was young as he and his mother Visenya spent a lot of time on Dragonstone.
This is a good example of what subjects of knowledge from Old Valyria could have been either lost in The Doom or post-Doom House Targaryen retained the knowledge answering this question but it was simply not disclosed to the readers.
I've recently been wondering about the similarities with warging. When a warg dies, they have the ability to permanently warg into one of their animals, as seen with Varamyr and Orell. We also have cases like Robb Stark's final words being 'Grey Wind' and of course the possibility that Jon has warged into Ghost after his death.
An important situation occurs when Varamyr wargs into Orell's eagle after dead Orell has permanently worged into it. Varamyr can even feel Orells hatred towards Jon and is acutely aware of his presence in the eagle - which is now 3 consciousnesses in one animal.
This all has made me wonder if dead riders can warg their dragons? Did Balerion have Aegon, Maegor and Aerea inside of him? This way of thinking would explain the actions of Silverwing after Vermithor died at Tumbleton, essentially mourning their death and trying to make them wake up. Could that have been Alysanne grieving the essential 'final' death of Jaehaerys?
For the show, what does the mean for the finale? Did Dany warg into Drogon at the end, which is why Drogon appeared after her death and also why he did not kill Jon but instead melted the throne? They then fly away with her body. Perhaps this is Dany herself making this choice of action.
It also makes some of the dragon fights very interesting. Daemon vs Aemond would be essentially Daemon, Aemon vs. Aemond, Visenya, Baelon and Laena. You would think that Laena would not want to kill Daemon nor would Aemon want to kill Baelon, but perhaps Visenya is the dominant consciousness in Vhagar? Although it is also stated in the Varamyr prologue that over time, the animals consciousness completely takes over inside the being, leaving nothing of the warg left.
A lot to think on with this theory.
Interesting I do wonder if the bonding with the direwolves is the same as dragon obviously a dragon is more powerful than a wolf. But they are both animals didn’t wanna bring that up in a Targaryen video 😁
@@JoseGonzalez-pn5zl I believe that magic in this world is split into two categories: fire magic and ice magic. Both require blood as payment. We have ice wights from the dead risen by the others, and fire wights like Beric and Lady SH. I think dragon bonding is essentially the fire warging to the ice warging that we are familiar with that impacts characters with blood of the first men.
Makes characters like Bloodraven and Jon Snow mega interesting as they have the ice and fire genetics. Especially Bloodraven as we know he is the last greenseer = ice magic, and he has commented on 'dragon dreams' in the dunk and egg novels = fire magic.
Perhaps Bloodraven will bond with one of Danys dragons. It might be the books version of what happens to Viserion.
Danny I think the fact they hatch at all the same time made her bond with her dragons strong but I do think the one that was the strongest bond was drogon so she ride him while the others follow her lead.
But we only saw her with Rhaegal and Viserion before she bonds with Drogon. They might act differently towards her afterwards 😢
George has said that we will be getting a second dance of the dragons in the coming books. Given that Dany has bonded with Drogon, it seems likely that other character(s) will bond with the other two. I therefore think she only has 1 true bond; with drogon.
@@dmcboi Gourge also said the second dance doesn't have to mean danys invasion people need to stop taking only parts of his words and listen to the whole thing.
The bond Daenerys has with the other two dragons will likely prove to become more tenuous even as her bond with Drogon becomes stronger
@@pattonramming1988 I doubt think so these aren't dragons she just picked up somewhere these are literally her children
What an interesting question. Nice analysis. I would assume that yes, a rider could bond with another dragon after the first dragon died. I would assume that because after riders died new riders would claim the dragon that was now riderless. Balerion comes to mind, Aegon, Maegor, and Viserys. Possibly more. As always great video. 😊
A lot of this is constrained by the lack of numbers of dragons by the end of the Dance. Like the question of could a Celtigar or Velaryon or Qoherys, or the first few generations of Baratheons after Orys become a dragon rider. If they had free access to available dragons then probably yes.
I think celtigars and Velaryon pre dance era the answer is no since those houses weren't dragonlords. But first few generation of Baratheons, probably yes if the rumour of Orys being their conquerors bastard brother are true
Other valyrian houses possessed and rode dragons. So being a targarien isn’t the only prerequisite. It’s about availability of resources, eggs. We’re the Celtigars not physically capable of riding a dragon or merely economically or politically prohibited from obtaining an egg or hatchling to bond with?
If Valyrian blood was all that was required to bond with a dragon then the Dragonseeds shouldn't be able to claim the riderless dragons since the official narrative presented to us by House Targaryen has been proven false by the fact that Rhaenyra is not of pure Valyrian blood since her mother was of House Arryn and her sons were sired by a knight from the Riverlands
There may be another motive for Rhaenyra wanting to kill the Dragonseeds aside from treason the fact that there are dragonriders of mixed heritage undermines the narrative of blood purity being a requirement for bonding with dragons
If anything the existence of the Dragonseeds would likely have proved to be a serious threat to Rhaenyra's rule and the power of House Targaryen even if she had triumphed over the Hightowers
@@itachi1403I don't being Dragonlords even matter.
Dragonlords are no different than the rest of their race in terms of blood of the Dragon. It's like saying a beggar in the streets and a lord in their castle have different superpowers as people even though both are of the Andal race, or First Men.
@@pattonramming1988Why even take the risk then? Just saying, if it was that much of an issue, the Velaryons never would've gotten there hands on Dragons from Rhaenys/Meleys
Rhaenyra didn't trust the dragonseeds cause they "proved their bastard nature" through the betrayal of Ulf and Hugh, as well as Nettles perhaps being Daemon's lover.
We may get an interesting lore piece that ties in to this question if Addam velaryon isn’t cut from the story or swapped out with Laenor when Seasmoke is claimed. Realistically from what we know Laenor shouldn’t just have been able to break the bond with his dragon and leave.
They’ll either have to bring him back, give a silly reason how he broke his bond, kill him off or just glaze over it like nothing happened.
@@joshuaadams6565 I really dont understand why Seasmoke is just chilling idle whilst his rider is alive far away in the world. You would think that the dragon would seek him out
If Addam claims Seasmoke and we never see or hear of Laenor again, I think we can assume that Laenor has died during his exile
I believe that the true culprit behind Laenor's death was Daemon
We are given little insight into the inner workings of the minds of dragons but it is clear they are more intelligent than most creatures and may be able to understand simple abstract concepts especially since there are few reports of dragon attacks outside of any major war during the rule of House Targaryen
It's clear that dragons can experience grief which may be why it was said to be more dangerous than usual for Aemond to claim Vhagar at the time of her previous rider's death
I don't see why not, dragons are powerful and majestic beasts, they don't really have to listen to anyone so it makes sense that they only heed one rider at the time, but humans (even Valyrians) are the most adaptable thing that we know of, so why not?
I don't think a rider could have multiple dragons normally, mostly because of how the other dragons would take that (proud creatures), but after his dragon dies it ought to be the same as if the human died.
Also, let's not forget that it was Daenerys's (the most important targ after all) queer notions what brought the dragons back.
I am somewhat hoping Daemon will go this way with Vermithor, as the song he sung was included many lines about three heads coming together as one.
Naw we need dragon seeds
I think that would upset a lot of book fans and Caraxes fans.
Nop Vermithor should be claimed by Hugh Hammer
I doubt Daemon would be able to claim Vermithor but he could help Hugh Hammer bond with the bronze fury
The age old question, let's dive in 😆
Well as sound of mind as a degenerate like Aegon the Elder could be in. Not as crazy as One-Eye but still. There's a reason the lords chose a broken boy king over him.
I don't see why not. Dragons can have multiple riders (though not at the same time) through their life, so why couldn't humans have more than one mount (though, again, not at the same time) through theirs?
Dragons form new bonds. Dragon riders could probably do the same.
Yeah, I think it's probably the same, we just don't see it cause the chances are that the dragons outlive the rider, very rare cases of dragons dying before rider(king viserys)
This video makes me wonder about Viserys… if he wanted to… would he have claimed another dragon? Which dragon would have chosen?
Just curious
probably scared or traumatized. If what the show version of him is to be believed, he might not of thought it a great thing for Targaryens to ride dragons in the first.
It's another classic example of Viserys making a poor decision. His own mother was discouraged from taking Balerion by the dragon keepers because he was too old, so she claimed Meleys.
At the time Viserys claims Balerion (93 AC) there are some very good vacant dragons around: Caraxes, Meleys and Dreamfire. He obviously would not predict his fathers untimely death, but he could have pulled a Maegor and waited for that to happen to claim Vhagar had he wanted.
This is all assuming that you can only ever bond with 1 dragon, which I think is the case.
It kinda reminds me of the mounts from James Cameron's Avatar that bond with their riders for life. And in that series, riders could claim other beasts as well like Jake did with Tuorak, and Netyri bonding with a new mount in the second film after her first one's death in the climax of the first film.
I would like to ride Caraxes
I don’t think there really is a mystery here. I think it is intentional that no rider has ridden 2 dragons because they can’t. That being said, I concede that Danaerys might prove to be an exception.
That's just an opinion though. Aegon II a dragon rider and Targaryen thought it was possible so safe to say at the very least a person can claim another dragon if theirs dies.
@@hokagedlo6133 true but the dragon in question would have to be of sound mind to take another rider
I loved this video, it would have been amazing for Aegon II to have clamored silverwing
There's likely a reason he never tried to claim her most likely due to her fresh severe trauma at the second battle of Tumbleton
My theory is that the human bond with a dragon is too strong to bond with another dragon even if the dragon dies. If the rider would try to claim a new dragon the old bond would reject the new bond.
I have a theory that if a dragon has experienced severe trauma that bonding with a new rider would have been too dangerous even if the dragon accepted the new rider the mental instability of the beast would likely have been catastrophic for the rider's own psyche
Which may be why Aegon II didn't try to claim Silverwing
Didn’t Daenerys bond with 3 dragons?
Can you please make a video on how the members of the small council are paid
i will definitely look into this. I've never considered that before.
As you indicated, I suspect the main problem is that George R.R. Martin is imagining his world as he goes, so anything can change, and there is nothing certain for now. So if Martin lives long enough and has a will to do it (or one of his assistants), they might revise the lore. Also, there were also like 40, if I remember well, dragonrider families in Valyria, they all could muster around 300 dragons at the same time, well beyond any Targaryen capacity, so they must have possessed knowledge which was lost to Targaryens over time.
The fact that Aegon II refuses to attempt to claim Silverwing may hint that her extreme trauma after the second battle of Tumbleton could be disatrous not only for Aegon but Silverwing as well which may have been why he requested eggs be sent from Dragonstone
Daenerys may have a strong bond with all three of her dragons but we have yet to see thr full extent of these abilities
One of the most fascinating chapters in a storm of swords states that Aegon the conquerer only rode Balerion and Rhaenys & Visenya only rode Meraxes and Vhagar
Another interesting event during the storming of the Dragonpit is that Syrax refused to allow Joffery to ride her and instead threw him off her back while flying, This suggests that a dragon will only consent to one rider or that their rider's presence is required for precise control
The fact that Viserys I never claimed another dragon after the death of Balerion is very intriquing and could imply the effects the bond are more powerful than what can be discerned through observation
Dragon's who have had multiple riders may also experience grief at the loss of their riders and more than likely are acting with the primary goal of protecting their riders above all else
I love your videos
I wonder. Can a bonded dragon kill their rider???
Maybe if they order them to kinda like in Laena in House Of The Dragon but in terms of books nothing suggests it can or can't be done
It isn't impossible based on the stated lore dragons are very intelligent but the odds of them turning on their riders is slim based on what we've seen
It is possible that if a dragon were to turn on it's rider it could cause the beast terrible trauma since the psychic bond between rider and dragon is very powerful and the cost of breaking that bond prematurely is unknown to us the readers
Dany seems bonded with 3 dragons and has only just ridden her 1st. If drogon dies im sure she would give it a go.
Dany hatched 3 dragons
I do think a rider can bond to another dragon if their original dragon is dead. If a dragon will accept them is another Question
I really like ASOIAF, the supernatural stuff like the Others. But the, Dragons and Dragon Rider stuff seems like teenaged YA bullshit to me and ruinied it somewhat. Or maybe it was just the TV show fron Season 6 onwards and House of Dragon series. It'd would've worked better it if it was just all a legened in the past, that no one living ever saw. Just my personal taste anyway.