Jon's Dragon Dream - A Song of Ice and Fire - Game of Thrones
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- Jon's recurring crypts dream that he can never quite finish? I think there's going to be a dragon at the end of it, and I have a theory about how and why, as well as a new theory about where dragon dreams come from in the first place. The Pact of Ice & Fire and the "Winterfell dragon" are also discussed, as well as how Jon will e a dragon waking from stone when he's resurrected.
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I rarely comment but I just wanted to say that nobody, and I mean nobody, is keeping this whole ASOIAF thing going like you are, GRRM included. Just keep doing your thing and I just might still care to read this Gods (all 7 of em) forsaken book when it finally comes out. So thanks for that.
Even if he gets TWoW out GRRM will never finish the series. Maybe MAYBE someone else finishes it in his stead but don't hold your breath for it.
Even if it never gets finished I can still find peace. This channel has helped with that, as the in-depth theories and mythology connections/allusions make it feel like we are finding our answers as best we can. A lot of these theories make so much sense they have basically become canon to me, even if we never get another book, I'll be satisfied with the theories and personally convincing speculation I've learned from these channels being a stand-in for a proper ending.
When I first skimmed this comment, i saw the word "forsaken" and was thinking about the TWOW sample chapter. I was gonna say, do NOT read that chapter unless you're in a good place mentally. It's like a bad acid trip in there
@@ThommyofThenn SAME!!!
💯. LML got me to start reading the books. Basically a whole different story in the books compared to the show.
The egg got notification like: “There are hot single Targaryans in your area.”
I like the theory, you forgot it was rumored that Good Queen Alysanne's dragon left a clutch of eggs at Winterfell when she visited
Sure you’re not thinking of vermax?
@@spicypineapple2778 I thought it was noted in Fire and Blood that Silverwing left a clutch of eggs at Winterfell or was rumored to but it's only mentioned once and then wrote off by the maesters as just a rumor
Super interesting to note that no one dies to resurrect Beric! Although he usually dies in battle doesn't he? When other people from the battle have also died? Could be that those deaths inadvertently pay for his life.
I kinda think melisandra won't have to sacrifice anyone to bring back jon.. she stays sacrificing people so maybe she will already be powered up lmaooo?
I don't believe anyone died around the time of the Hound's trial when Beric was resurrected in the BwoB cave? Could be wrong tho
Ooooh I think you're right, Dominic 🤔
It might have to do with their own power/belief, if melisandre believes she has to sacrifice someone than she does. Thoros doesn’t believe he needs to so he doesn’t
Beric also isnt really alive after being wighted. His heart doesnt beat, his blood doesnt flow, and he loses a bit of himself every time. "Only death can pay for life" would seem to apply to an actual life being gain in exchange for the blood offering i.e. Dany's dragons.
I LITERALLY just made a post on Tumblr about Summer seeing the dragon a few days ago, because somehow even though I've read Clash over 100 times (no I am not using hyperbole here) somehow I glossed over that passage every single time and didn't take it seriously! I was immediately met with pushback from folks saying it was just Summer seeing a pillar of smoke, yet IMMEDIATELY before AND after describing the winged snake, George makes a point to describe both smoke and fire using plain language - meaning that Summer does not need to interpret smoke with that flowerly, wolf-ish language the same way he CONSISTENTLY describes things like swords as claws and teeth. So I stand by it being incredibly suspect!!! At first I took it as literal, because it's plausible that Sheepstealer is still kicking out there - and we know he nested in the Vale for a long time, it's not too far away. But I think you're right in that George simply WANTS us to think about that dragon imagery in tandem with the Crypts of Winterfell. Awesome stuff as always dude!
I kind of like the tinfoil theory that Nettle actually was a cotf (Leaf) in disguise. She later got to Winterfell „for the Bran Boy“.
After the presumed death of Bran and the fall of the Starks, she reached out to sheepstealer and flew to the wall to go back to her cave with Bloodraven.
So Leaf is actually Nettle-Nan.
Michael talks about stuff made a video about it, it’s entertaining to watch.
It’s probably nonsense, but it’s one of the best explanations for Summer seeing a dragon.
On the other hand, taming a dragon with food and kindness is really cool, too.
@@fabianbinder3681I saw that video too! I don't know that I believe it but it's a cool theory, and Nettles aside there is something very very weird to me about old Nan, I hope we get to learn more about her or at least what happened to her!
Nice seeing another Clashhead here. It often gets accused of having "connecting two better installment" syndrome but I really like ACOK for its style and imagery. I think grrm struck a great balance between cryptic and direct storytelling in that book also
@@WatashiMachineFullCycle yeah, that old lady knew way more than she let on and hopefully didn’t go to the Dreadfort.
@@fabianbinder3681I love the Nettles > Nan > Lief theory. Totally fits as Lief says she spent 200 years walking amongst men until her heart became weary i.e. seeing Daemon die in front of her and thinking the Bran she came to winterfell for actually died.
Hi, David.
I don't think Melisandre will be the one to burn Shereen, but the wildlings, they are terrified of her because of the greyscale. Melisandre will take advantage of the sacrifice to resurrect Jon.
Your channel Is terrific 😍❤
Thirteen years later and we still cannot come to grips with the fact Jon just died.
you know he's not going to stay dead right
you do know that
If you don’t know that he isn’t gonna stay dead, you have to be off your rocker. The ? Really is, what kind of Jon will return
It would be hilarious and infuriatingly disappointing if George just left him dead.
GRRM could troll us hard 😅
This guy liked season 8
That John the fiddler/Daemon and Jon Snow parallel is something i have never notice. That does make me wonder if Jon's true name is Daemon
It seems most ppl think he will be "Aemond/Aegon" but I personally like "Daemon" as his possible name
I wonder if the egg was hidden in Lyannas crypt when she was buried? Which could be a clue for Jon about R + L
And maybe a parchment and Rhaegar's harp
I like that idea.
If Ser Alliser ever returns I wonder how he’ll react to Jon being one of the last Targaryens
I love the jon coming back with targarian white hair
Y'all want him to be a true targaryen do bad, he is not.
Hope for Ghost "The Celts believed that the wolf was a powerful symbol of the moon, and they associated it with transformation, intuition, and the hunt. They also believed that wolves had the ability to communicate with the spirits of the dead, and that they were therefore able to act as intermediaries between the living and the dead". So the magic dire wolf does not need to die he has points in the necromancy skilltree
Just to clarify, Mushroom’s claim repeated in World of Ice and Fire is that there is “a clutch of eggs somewhere in the depths of Winterfell’s crypts” which I would interpret as three more dragon eggs laid by Vermax parallel to Dany’s three eggs.
I like the dragon egg theory, and I think it's partially right, in as much as I definitely agree that Daeny's dragon dreams were triggered by her dragon eggs.
But I don't think it has to work like that for every Targaryen. Daemon II (John Fiddler) tells Dunk that he dreamed of his brother's deaths in the battle of the red grass field before they were killed. Which means he had dragon dreams long before coming to Whitewalls. But the Blackfyres never had dragon eggs. Daemon himself laments this. In fact it's the reason he hoped to hatch one at Whitewalls.
My head Cannon is that Targaryen/Valerian magic is basically hereditary fire magic, similar to the hereditary green magic of the First Men. I think that like the fire mages of the red temple or ancient Valyria, the Targaryens can draw on any fire to fuel their magic depending on their individual proficiency with magic or the strength of the dragon blood trait in themselves.
However I suspect that magical fire items(dragonglass, dragon eggs, live dragons, maybe even Valyrian steel) are the best fuel for Targaryen/Valyrian magic.
If anyone had ever wondered why Martin would so often use military ranks in his armies which did not exist at the time. One of his main inspirations as people know was the Wars of the Roses. Just like in the Burgundian Wars, roughly at the same time, large mercenary units had been employed first in Medieval Europe. Those had these ranks. Though, Martin does not really have large mercenaries units at all.
Fun idea (that's probably already been mentioned) Princess Shireen is a stone dragon that will be woken.
She had blood of the dragon, albeit a bit watery. She has stoneman disease. It's likely Melissandre will burn her like Dany was burnt.
I just want to believe she won't get sacrificed and gets something of a decent life.
Edit: Posted about 2 minutes in. Also her dream about being "eaten" could be her just being consumed by becoming a dragon.
I like the Nettles is Old Nan, and a COTF theory by Michael Talks. Sheepstealer could have been nesting on top of Jon’s egg from Vermax, or laid her own. Then when she escapes during the sack of Winterfell she’s both a literal vision and a prophecy.
I’m just thoroughly obsessed with this channel and your videos!! Keep them coming!! It’s like an IV drip keeping me alive in between HBO content and eventual WoW release ❤️🧡💜
Didn't see this at first but you have the same attitude as me. I love reading the books and I really liked HOTD s1, so much so I read the entire F&B tome during last summer. These days, most of my enjoyment of ASOIAF comes from streams and videos like this, supported by quite a bit of imagination. I made it for years just re-reading the series every few years, one book at a time. Once I learned there were such high quality channels filled with like-minded folk, I realised there were another five years of discussion and content to be had...at minimum! Looking forward to the future tbh
Maybe Lyanna gave an egg to Ned as proof of his heritage, and Ned stashed it in the crypts
That's called a reach
I love it! It doesn’t conflict with the prior canon material we have either because we know or reasonably could assume that pre-Conquest til after dance of dragons era, eggs were far more abundant, thus could easily explain any prophetic dreams or visions associated with any other Targaryens alive in those times
Makes my day to have a LML upload - much less the day after a GWT upload!
Cheers mate!
Support your local library, comments and upd00ts help the algorithm and LML helps the ASOIAF community! Spread love and be kind!
I am interested in more asoiaf content like this, so what is GWT?
What we need is a faceless men iceberg video! There is so much to talk about with that shadowy organisation
I remember the dream in which Jon had dark shiny armor (Valarion steel armor like Euron?) and a red sword. Encouraged to see you delve into this.
I talked about that more in the Jon Iceberg proper. it says "armored in black ice, his blade burned red in his fist" which could certainly refer to Valyrian steel, since his father's V steel sword was black and was called Ice
@@DavidLightbringer I interpreted the black ice as Obsidian. Would be some funky armour but Jon knows what Valyrian steel is so I doubt he'd describe it as anything other than Valerian steel if it were that.
@@DavidLightbringerTywin Lannister destroyed/melted Ice after Next Stark's death and created two more Valyrian swords from it
I think the only time someone doesn’t die when Baric is resurrected is when the Hound kills him. Every other time it’s on a battlefield, so technically a lot of people are dying that could be used to power the resurrection.
Just finished this chapter in my latest reread. He is my absolute favorite character.
Mine too😊
Jon has a very similar name to mine own irl. Always felt a connection to him at that more basic level. I also found his quest for finding "his place" in the world to be well paced and rewarding emotionally. Yet even after finding love and family with both the Wildlings and the Watch alike, he still doesn't have everything figured out and has continuing problems to work on overcoming
He’s so much cooler in the books ❤
@@manofhonor1685 I view the show versions of characters more as loose sketches of those in the books. And book Stannis looks like Steve Dillane in my mind's eye! Except with a narrower face and more glowering countenance
wow. this makes so much sense on so many levels. certainly my new favorite theory video. The bit about the dreams being connected to a dragon egg and the evidence in the dunk and egg stories, as well as dany. DAMNING STUFF. Especially it being Daemon posing as "John the fiddler" It feels you have properly interpreted this as a whole. truly came away from the video with a much clearer picture of how GRRM might resolve his draconic identity.
thank you very much!!
Man found your channel through alt shift x, and you're making me want to read the books which I've avoided due to how badly the show ended and that they're still not finished
But man so much depth, and I'd love to see you tackle other stories.
Anyways amazing content I've been binging it
The problem with dragon dreams coming from dragon eggs is that Daeron the drunken has dragon dreams all the time without having eggs near him
That we know of
He spent a lot of time on DragonStone
Ya Aegon V (Egg) says that he and all his siblings have dragon eggs in Dunk and Egg stories. Obviously Daeron is his oldest brother so he'd also have one
Being a dreamer has nothing to do with dragon eggs. It has to do with an outside force entering their dreams. Bloodraven with Bran and Quaithe with Dany are prime examples. Its not a magical ability. Theyre just the recipient of a message in the form of a dream.
Could the sender be a dragon, though?
"The Dragons know, Daenarys, do you?"
@David Lightbringer
I have always thought this as well.
Dragon dreams. ❤❤️🔥
Especially when she feels Rhaegol reaching to Rhaego in utero.
I think that, unlike Beric Dondarrion, Jon's time while dead will be very active. His consciousness may very well take up residence in Ghost, but that consciousness will also travel to the crypts of Winterfell, where Jon will indeed discover who he truly is. Once resurrected, it will be verification of this in person at Winterfell which will play a part in Jon in either refusing to be named King in the North in spite of Rob's will or abducting as King in the North once named.
yayy, new upload!❤
This stream was an epic marathon. So glad to have been there, Dave!
Great theory! Having a dragon appear at the end of the tunnel would be such a cool way to conclude the crypt dream.
That part about Jon being the first to receive dreams from the egg because there hasn’t been a Targaryen up there since Jace is very interesting. However we know Egg ends up at Winterfell in the next dunk and egg novella. Maybe George will write or consult the show writers to write that Egg has the same dragon dream as Jon during his time at Winterfell?
Exploring the crypts with a Kreator t-shirt is the way to go!
Loving the recent content but can't find time to keep up with all the juicy, sweet videos.
Keep it up folks ❤
(Damn, 108k subs and counting)
right on Andrzej, I know folks like you are out there and love the channel but have less time, so yeah I try to look for good chances to clip out a particularly good moment from the longer streams
thank you for the cutting the long video! I mostly watch your videos during work but right now is our busy season so I’m falling behind 😫
Life pays for life... Eeek, Shireen does not deserve that
🎊 🎉 new video alert! 🚨
Alt shift x kept suggesting your videos during different streams. And I'm so happy I checked your videos out :). They're so well done !
Love your videos. Thank you for the shorter ones too!
Well colour me convinced - both on the egg/dream theory, but especially on the exciting idea of Jon's resurrection as a 'Targaryan dragon'.
The Winterfell burning scene through Summer's eyes is such a wild scene.
Great video! Based on what you are saying and new content we are seeing in HOTD such as;
- Aegon's prophecy
- Isle of Faces (in the trailer)
GRRM can't release WOW until after HOTD ends. They are introducing events that change the end of the story. If something happens at Winterfell involving dragon eggs in HOTD, it is important to the main story and may have a big impact on how the books end.
Anyway, food for thought.
Will George has said that the house of the Dragon cannon is separate from the book Canon, but there's no question that House of the Dragon is aligning itself with the book lore much more closely than Game of Thrones did. so I think you may be overstating it to say that George would hold back release of Winds of Winter, which I don't think he would. however he does work very closely with Ryan Condall, so any deep lore that we see on the show we should assume to be either right or close to right as far as the book canon goes.
This is an AWESOME video @LML!
So exciting when you upload😍🐉
Excellence as always Dave. Love to hear the most obscure and interesting bits of myth and lore, alongside the fantastic analysis. Provoke thought and Praise Garth brother. 🍃
Hooray!
Nice Kreator t-shirt!!
Also wanted to say your new thumbnail style is great!!!! I find myself even more compelled to click on them nowadays
If dragons can go into some form of hibernation then there could've been an actual dragon under Winterfell that ate corpses to grow a bit before being trapped in the collapsed section. There might even be some meaning to a dragon growing by eating lots of dead Starks/Wargs too, maybe some Jojen paste type stuff that creates a weirwood connection, I haven't really thought it through. Maybe a sleeping dragon could give Jon those dragon dreams and it would be nice for Jon to have his own non-Dany dragon because then the other two can go to Euron, fAegon etc and it would make him more of an equal to her.
That bastard will never be an equal to her 💀
I like it. It makes the most sense out of the World book info and incorporates it into the main story.
As always, I love your work
I just wanted to say you’re a criminally underrated ASOIAF youtuber!! one of the best! i love how you dig into all the religions that are being referenced or homaged by GRRM. i also love that you’re not scared to show your political views a bit! Its the ones who hide it that you gotta be weary of. just wanted to say keep up the amazing work david! you definitely deserve more subs!!!
Very interesting theory! Thanks for carving this out into its own video.
I had seen this channel mentioned in other vids before
So...the rabbit hole algorithm has deemed it was time
Great video :)
i'd like to look into every character's prophetic dreams/visions (those who have them anyway). it'd be interesting to compare them and see how they coincide
p.s. - 69th Like!
That's a good idea for a video
love the new theory!
Fun fact: Baby chicks start chirping and respond to the mother's soft chirps while still in the egg. If you hatch them in an incubator it's fun to talk to the unhatched babies and hear them chirp in response and see the little eggs wobble around. I once picked up a few guinea fowl eggs for a chicken to hatch as the eggs she was sitting on weren't viable. As I hadn't really planned it out I had to put them in my bra to keep them warm for the ride home which was a little less than an hour away. I got about half way there and heard a huge crack! Guinea eggs are really hard and thick so I can only imagine how much louder the sound would be for a dragon hatching.
(Everything went well for the guinea keets, the chicken was a great adoptive mother.)
Winterfell burning would be hot enough to hatch a dragon with all the lives and blood sacrifices in the battle, and Summer saw it, as it's small self flew towards Jon. Jon making excuses to go towards it too with the "rescue".
Yaaaaay! 🎉🎉🎉❤
You just keep bringing the fire ❤️🔥
That's cool. Love it. Never thought about it this way. Probably they sent the egg for Sara Snow's child, but knowing GRRM that child probably died, so the egg sat there waiting for Jon to hatch.
I've only got a problem: what is it eating all the time? There must be more tunnels that open to the surrounding of Winterfell, one large enough to allow a dragon through.
I think Mel won’t NEED to sacrifice Shireen, but I think she will THINK she has to. Mel is terrible at determining what she sees in the flames. And she doesn’t know about Thoros bringing Beric back. I think that will add to the tragedy of it all. Because the reader will know it was unnecessary
Loved the livestream 🎉
If Vermax laid eggs at Winterfell, Jace would have taken them. Plausible Jace could have brought an egg. But, maybe Ned brought the egg that his dad gave to Jon at the tower of joy.
Awesome theory. Seems so obvious when you point out the trail of crumbs that GRRM has left us. Brilliant video, thank you David.
How am I only just seeing Jon being "armoured in ice" in his dream is symbolic and possibly his subconscious telling him his icy "Snow" identity is his protection?
On Beric's resurrection- perhaps the wiggle room in that is the "death" is a portion of Beric's memory/soul since he admits he remembers less and less every time
Great theory!
Wait till they find Rhaegar's diary down there 📚👀
Omg I LOVE this theory. Fantastic job.
Good shit! 🫡👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
If they do bring Jon back, it would follow that his resurrection will be more coherent than, eg, Lady Stone heart because he never truly dies. If he jumps directly into wolf, then back to his body, he’ll be more whole?
Just bought the full Song of Ice & Fire books I’m currently halfway through a Game of Thrones the book not the show. And so far I love it and your vids have taught me so much about the lore of Westeros thank you so much for that sir. I enjoy all your videos and watch them all. We greatly appreciate all that you do I pray and hope your family is well and many blessings to you and your bloodline
I've always thought summer saw a dragon
Ok. So 1st Jon will be an ice wright , break the wall, and invade Westros. Then he will be a fire wright at some point (somehow). So, at what point does he realize, find out, or be told he is a Targ? I would guess it would be after he (as an ice wright); takes Winterfell. Which would be the best place to be changed into the fire wright and find out he is a secret Targ. ( How the hell are they gonna manage to rescue/ kidnap him to make him a fire wright? (have i confused only myself😅😂).
i think Jon might be frozen that long, yes
Speaking of psychic links - maybe patch face warged into a fish 😂 which is why he bonkers
Taking a quick break from my second crushing of the 6 hour jon snow stream to watch this lil guy
I really enjoyed the stream and the video and personally I’d love if there was an egg down in the crypts but I think it’ll be more metaphorical with the crypts being the stone and Jon going down there learning his true identity and emerging/being reborn as a dragon.
Catelyn's hair goes white not because of wighting but because of decomposing over several days in the water. Beric's hair hasn't gone wight white in several resurrections. Besides that, sure seems cool to see Anime Protag Jon
Hair doesn’t decompose and turn white that quickly in death. But it can turn white overnight in response to trauma and shock. I think Catelyn’s death was traumatic enough that her consciousness returning to her body was shocked and traumatised - so her hair is white. Beric died in battle and was willing to do it over and over ie less traumatic for him. Jon was betrayed and murdered by his brothers so it should be enough to make his hair white under those circumstances
@@WhiteSargent That's fair, and a good justification. But it's assuming he'll have white hair and works backwards. Nothing in the text indicates he will have light hair. He's described over and over as being like a stark, looking like a stark, that's not gonna change because he uses warging (a stark ability) and gets returned. Jonno is gonna stay dark haired, because anyone we see be resurrected (instead of Cat) has their OG hair color.
@@Barendsen2 makes sense. It seems like he’s set both paths up and either might happen.
Maybe the egg hatching at the end of the story will be the "dream of spring"
Thanks for everything, I really like this theory
Any chance you'd release a vid thats just like 3 hours of the awesome psychedelic cut music??
no but it's on SoundCloud
nice new theory
This has me so hyped for WOW. Sending positive vibes out to the great GRRM.
Love the Dark glow globe!!
Nice theory mate.
made me cackle loud at work at 0:01 thanks xDD
Dope!
Love the theory on the eggs. It got me thinking: perhaps glass candles are carved from dragon eggs?
Could it be that Jon got his egg when he was born and Ned hid it in the warm caves in the bottom of the crypts. Maybe he will get his own dragon 🙂🙂🙂
Thank you, David.
Thank you for revitalising my passion for ASOIAF!
What's the intro song/soundtrack called? Sounds so familiar
it's my remix of the GoT theme!
@@DavidLightbringeri can totally hear it now hahah! What a banger!
I like this!
16:50 George is slow walking us.
Indeed.
Well timed stream actually, as I had to watch that "10 commandments" movie with Charlton Heston as moses. When he goes up the mountain, he has his normal hair. When he has a spiritual "rebirth" on the mountain (very Quaithe style talking bush scene) he returns to his friends, who see that his hair has suddenly turned white. I guess the "hair changing to indicate the character has undergone a revelation" thing has been a trope for quite some time. I wonder about the mythological background of this.
Naaahh this is waaayy too good!! Now i wouldn't have it any other way
If Rhaegar knew about the egg it could've been with Lyanna/Jon at TOJ. Ned returns it to the crypts, as part of, "Promise me Ned?"
Also, Egg mentions he and his brothers all had dragon eggs and Daeron the Drunkard had dragon dreams
The biggest twist that Martin could do is leave Jon dead
Always a Great video! i had a thought of even though its probably gonna be Mel to raise Jon back from the dead wouldnt it be wild if somehow it ended up being Stoneheart XD Beric gave her the Kiss of life then she does for Jon but probably doesn’t work at all narratively where Stoneheart currently at in Dance
I was thinking that waking the dragons from stone could mean jon being resurrected through shireen’s death. Waking a dragon from stone (referring to shireen’s greyscale). I haven’t watched the whole video so maybe thats were it’s going
Edit: shit…
I just had a realization after thinking about this video for weeks. Regarding the hot springs in Winterfell and Vermax's egg possibly being there, what if Jon and Ygritte's night together symbolized Vermax and some wild dragon living in the hot springs making an egg together. And the Ygritte dragon could be red herself, possibly making the hatchling in the Winterfell crypts red as well. Jon's dragon being red could perfectly encapsulate the Targaryen sigil of a black banner (Night's Watch) behind a red dragon. Not to mention the Jace/Jon parallels of Targaryens with the blood of the First Men. I don't know, is this too tinfoil-hat crazy?