I think a big part of Albrecht's miscalculations is that he is basically doing the same as throwing a nuclear bomb at a black hole. This is shown at the end of the quest when we take control of the vessel. If it was Albrecht, he would've probably tried to punch the other vessel in the face, where as we, through compassion/love, the opposite of indifference, manage to subdue and stop the murmur from taking over the sanctum completely. In a sense Albrecht is still trapped in the wall, through his own apathy towards the lives he is willingly throwing away or neglecting, justifying it by fighting the greater evil.
Yup, he is unwittingly channeling the very indifference he is fighting. Yet doesn't recognize he'd encountered the solution to it when he felt what he felt towards Loid, what he feels towards Kalymos. So yeah, he's still trapped in that wall in a way.
Yes, very much so. His fear has forced him into all kinds of craziness and you're right, whether he's actually trapped, the man that left that encounter never left the void in his own mind. Very dangerous precedent...
Perhaps, The "Man" in the wall is actually Entrati himself. If people's emotions can manifest themselves as paradoxes... Who's to say that Entrati's own selfishness didn't spawn the indifference? The entire account from his incursion into the void, could simply be the ravings of a madman.
The reason why the tenno subdued the murmur is the same reason why the helped umbra just like ballas said in his logs "And it was not their force of will - not their Void devilry - not their alien darkness... it was something else. It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing - and take away its pain."
if 'the wall' reflects back the opposite of what it is shown, if the goldfish gains massive intellect, if the uncaring avian gains empathy, what does this say of the originals? if the last cervulite gains enough awareness to hold a grudge, and finally, if tenno, the drifter rather, was the opposite of what they became, an innocent little child, ultimately left to align with the tenno through an excruciating loss of that innocence, then Albrecht's adversary, is the opposite of a fearful, timid man, who has attachments he is unwilling to part with, who has luck and fortune, and a very clear streak of sociopathy, will be the most dangerous adversary to his foes, not because his confidence, willingness to unchain himself, but because his destruction doesn't come from indifference - his destruction came from hate, and only once did Entrati learn to love at the very end, did the indifference begin to make itself known again, feeling, spiteful. Or did it? Whatever Entrati is, the man in the wall isn't. If we understand Entrati, we understand our void-born... friend.
@@TheDsIEGE touched because they were in a position to be touched or because they were where they were when they met the presence in the void? I’m just questioning the part about the exposure and whether or not that comes in a play as far as……well everything.
This also explains why the tenno can control warframes, they were orokin children who probably inherited their parents' supremacist thoughts, and the void flipped their personalities to be compassionate to the pain of the warframes (and vessels too). Ballas called us twisted and devils because he could not comprehend what the tenno had become: kind people. So basically Ballas was a Karen.
@MultiKombo Yeah... Now that you mention it, Tenno should have been like that... and if the void flips you 180 than your worst might come to be the best... It could be that because they were children, some of their aspects didn't really surface or yet fully form, like the inborn courage, fear of unknown, their own personas you know, that they were kinda like, almost...kind of blank pages but with supremacist thought processes and logic planted inside and we,the operator was just a little more blank and thus ACTUALLY survived bacause of that.. haha if you are a basic bitch even if thats flipped over you are still kinda a basic bitch .. the irony LOL I guess the last couple experimental animals only survived because the void realised something throught the other's deaths, that uniqueness that entranti thought the void chased was in actually, all, a being that gets turned inside out and outside in, gets unique in a way,or it might have wanted to somehow intice Entranti without him realising... BIGBRAIN VOID So, if entranti looked into the void and thus it looked inside him and turned him a upside down, into indifference of sacrifice... what if the void just yearns to know and feel more because it can't grow thoughts by itself, like it's indifferent to it's INTELLIGENCE as well and only gets stimulated and by thus can think? or what if the Man in the wall just... feels lonely? "LETS GIVE HIM A HUG" :D (he always spooks me out of nowhere ngl...) nah handshake will do xD
Let's not forget that all of the Entrati are Orokin. There entire culture was based on self indulgence at the expense of those weaker. The Tenno should finish what they started.
We usually see Daughter as 1 of the only decent Orokin, and as we see during the Veil breaker content, even she is racist and privileged and the only reason she ends up helping Kahl is because she is powerless because of her infestation while Kahl uses her hunger for knowledge to help him and eventually she opens up to him and develops a soft spot. It's kinda funny how as cruel and painful mutation by infestation might sound, it is the only reason why the Entrati family is tolerable.
The operator reports do say the drifter “established” Duviri as a place to live. When Albrecht says Euleria created Duviri, I believe he means she wrote the book. He does say her creations are REVERBERATING and growing in the void. Basically saying the ideas she had, have begun to grow separate from her.
This also ties into what we learned in the Angels of Zariman about Conceptual Embodiment. Euleria wrote the book, then through the echoes of the tenno (the drifters) and the raw exposure to the void, duviri was made manifest. That could explain why Duviri is such an emotional place, compared to the indifference of the rest of the void. The drifters, the ones who rejected the Man in the Wall's deal, were left to fend for themselves. Fear, Anger, Envy, Sorrow, and even Joy, would be found in abundance in a place like the void stricken Zarriman.
i too agree i never even thought about it like that. . . if its one thing these lore videos do is make more sense and kinda put random pieces together that were not there before.
I disagree as we don't have anything to show that albrecht was a member of the seven so yes with his knowledge of the void and the man in wall at the time he could interpret it as a experiment but not one of his own making I also don't believe the council of seven viewed it as such either but the similarities are vary much there nonetheless
I mean it doesn't help at all that the Zairmen was going to commit itself to a long term void jump to save time. Most void Translations or jumps are short term ( within the Solar system, try to limit void exposure). In a bid to get to Tau sooner they went from doing multiple void jumps to trying one really big one.
I think the choice you have to pick is the lesser evil. Albert is doing everything he can to fight a war that cannot be touched and avoid being touch by it.
@@TheDsIEGEnot quite…… just because we don’t see much moving doesn’t mean that what is in play is standing still. This is like 40 chance and we can only see two or 3D.
@@TheDsIEGE I agree. If you are swarmed by wasps... Who is truly to blame? > The wasps? > Or the hand that shook the nest? Entrati is the one who opened this entire can of worms to satisfy his own selfish curiosity. Now we know, that everything up unto this point was a grand scheme to destroy the indifference. Maybe the wasps are simply defending their nest?
28:06 I think when Albrecht refers to Euleria "creating" duviri, he's talking about her writing the stories. I think the Drifter still manifested it in the void
Yea, the Tales of Duviri is as mentioned in the questionaties: a set of mental exercises to keep ones sanity in the case of void exposure. It makes sense that someone would need to have written that.
Yes, "Tales of Duviri" were a series of allegorical fables to teach children emotional regulation as another safeguard from void exposure. more specifically it was another safeguard against Conceptual Embodiment - the tendency of the void to manifest extreme emotions after coming into contact with consciousness. Its how the Holdfasts were made, they are literal manifestations of their guilt. Skittergirl is a manifestation of Yonta's teenage anxieties. Duviri is a manifestation of "Tales of Duviri"
I just realized as Albericht’s logs go on his way of speaking becomes less and less like he’s struggling to speak. Like he’s getting more and more comfortable speaking.
Something interesting I noticed about Albrecht is how much he reminds me of Ozymandias from Watchmen. Both are geniuses pursuing ends that we would theoretically consider to be good, but ultimately their good intentions are offset by their usage of methods that result in a lot of lives being lost, as well as their indifference to those casualties. To top it off, both have their own genetically modified pet feline.
It would've been nice if you looked up on that cliff in the Sanctum. Quite a number of people doesn't know that Wally is just staring at us above there. 😅
Ok so... I actually got real close using captura and Ivara's Navigator and the man face up there is pretty much the same as the rest of them in that area, A stone Effigy so I'm not sure it's "him" as we might think. That being said, the thing underneath? Well to me that's horrifying
@@TheDsIEGE I'm glad you mentioned it in the video, I noticed it the other day just looking around. It's interesting because the giants in the sanctum one has a heart beat the one that we used as Arthur does not. Also if you get closer to the hole it's coming from you can hear breathing, which sounds like it's coming from TMitW. And it almost lines up with how the being underneath the entire place is laying.
Also it got me thinking that other bright lights we see in the distance could be other versions of sanctum in this infinite wastelands. But if it's true, then the one head with missing light and instead is pouring infinite dust from it's mouth is getting more disturbing. PS. He also watching at boss arena from above with a smile. We doing everything we can and he just smiles
@@TheDsIEGEIf you can find the trapezoidal portal in the labs, check underneath towards the clouds far below. You can see the full silhouette of what’s down there. It’s the Man in the Wall. And he’s colossal
The tenno did create Duviri. It was based off of a book that was meant to teach children how to control their emotions so they wouldn't spawn dangerous void manifestations when traveling through the Void during to Zariman Ten Zero's jump. The book was written by Eularia Entrati though. We learn this from the data pad Questions in Duviri. So while the Tenno spawned it, it was Eularia's world.
Duviri the location was created via Conceptual Embodiment by our Drifter while they were lost in the void and were the first king of the land until abdicating the throne allowing Dominus Thrax to take over, the reason Euleria is involved in Duviri is because she wrote it as a childrens book to help the Zariman children understand how to control their emotions during void travel, which is why she's the narrator for any playthrough of the zone
God the Cavia rank up cutscenes, especially rank 3 is voice acted phenomenally. Warframe has a bevvy of great VAs but I think the Cavia are the cream of the crop
After hearing this codex it made me think that what Albrecht's voice, they way he talks, the short breaks between the words is the result of his "new voice" after Loid nursed him
Hello, just a random dude but i came to voice something i noticed after watching your videos on the MiTW. Ive noticed that after you mentioned the void and emotions play a huge role with eachother that multiple missions that had something to do with the void had a theme around emotions. Duviri - emotional cycles and the drifters emotions as a child War within - multiple choices the player makes is what emotion they felt in moments of the incident Chains of harrow - a boy who either couldn't understand emotions or couldn't control them The sacrifice - about how a tenno controls a warframe through soothing the victims emotions Ect But what i also noticed is that EVERY sun, moon or neutral choice you make throughout the game is an emotional response to the situation being presented with sun normally being an aggressive response and moon being a accepting response and neutral being... well neutral or numb to the situation.
That’s not quite how the sun and moon answers are, it’s based off yin and yang with sun being committed without reflection and moon being cold water, all things come in time. Between sun and moon unfolds a winding path; not by one way alone is mastery achieved. To take from the litany of the Dax. Yin and yang are a balance not good or evil. You can also see this during the war within. The “neutral” option is to tell teshin to stand down and kill her yourself. The other options are letting her rot a painful death in her decaying body, or having teshin kill her for you, as he requested
And thus youve perfectly summed up why my Operator/Drifter is pure neutral. Theyve become numb to everything, there is no good or bad. No black or white. Just a sea of shifting greys. My Tenno is a mercenary, a weapon, not even a person, and that cold calculating nature is the only reason they've survived thus far. In my headcanon, anyway 😅
I must say you are keeping my love for Warframe lore alive and fresh. Sometimes flipping my head canon on its head. So much in the game is said, but so much more isn’t. Which I love. Gives it wiggle room to grow. To explain. Please keep doing what you’re doing. Love the content!
The idea of Entrati being led forward based on the Evil Genius concept is very funny to the tiny part of my brain that still remembers my philosophy minor, lol. Great vid! I'm curious if our operator's lack of memories is tied into all this somehow, given how many people in this world seem to have similar symptoms
I don't think entrati was/is a coward so much as desperate. He looked into the void and something stared back. That terrified him because the more he became involved, he realized it is an extremely powerful force, god-like. Knowing this, he realizes that there's nothing he can do to stop it, especially after all he's tried. He then realized that children, while being youthful, their brains although less developed, are able to learn more quickly and efficiently, and not to mention, they can hold that information for a longer period of time. He probably realized that was his/our best hope and went down that path. To everyone else, he looks like a mad man and a sadistic coward, but nobody else has seen into the eyes of the void like he did. But, I could be wrong. Maybe the man in the wall is a product of albrecht going in to the void in the first place and the man in the wall IS a future version of albrecht from the alternate time line, due to that eternity theory and albrecht is trying to destroy himself and doesn't even realize its him. This would explain why the void entity, seemingly omnipotent, doesn't harm the operator or albrecht, but only seems to attempt it, because he's just guiding everything in history that led to his ascension as the man in the wall. So he's not trying to stop them, more like guiding everything as to fulfill his own self prophecy of himself.
I have a lot of thoughts about all of this, and this quest gives me quite a lot to theorize on. First, I definitely feel like Albrecht is a flawed, brilliant, and broken man with ultimately "Good" intentions but horrifically misguided by his own fear, hubris and ego. I do not necessarily think the "indifference" "man in the wall" or "shadowself" is necessarily an entirely malevolent entity either though I by no means feel like it is a benevolent one. I do feel though, as if the war between the two is more than simply two opposing ideals. Its two opposing forces. It almost feels like it's humanity versus the universe itself. Though I am just not sure how. The nature of the void and it's relation to the Man in the Wall is starting to feel very...indifferent so to say. Like the Man is not the void itself but almost more like a being created when conciousness meets the eternal mystery that is the void. Like him/they/it/their multitude is more like a conciousness fighting against whatever it comes into contact with, an entity born of the void and capable of using it's endless possibilites in an equally endless fashion... but always being somehow confined to the void itself. Trapped by a force that neither cares for or against it... but simply has it exist within it. At least, for now. I almost see the Man in the Wall and it's relationship to the origin system beings it is potentially born from like a funhouse mirror; the twisted opposite of yourself can never touch you so long as you and it are on opposite sides of the glass. But through the constant usage and manipulation of the void by the origin system- the constant casting of the physical into that etheral realm and vice versa by the Orokin, the Tenno, and various other entities- it feels like the "glass" so to speak is fading away. Like the twisted reflection, not quite yourself but also not simply the mirror, is grasping and trying to take as much of your self as it can so as to escape it's "prison". In doing so, in this continued theft of self by the reflection while you are interacting with that realm, by losing more and more of yourself to that reflection... you are changed forever as a result. The more the Man becomes you, the more unlike yourself you become. This hypothetical scenario I'm talking about also feels like... almost like a perversion on "nature versus nurture" as a concept to me. However, instead of learned actions and attributes being at odds with natural instinct and urges, the void simply takes the opposite concept to attack whatever is more prevalent in a being. Like a scenario wherin a being's learned ideals and morality are stripped away by the void and reflected back at them to a degree, or their nature is twisted and reversed in on itself instead. Entrati, fueled by hubris and pride tried everything to prove himself right and make use of the initially useless seeming, empty void... only to learn a deep and powerful fear of what lies within it, his knowledge and education giving way to a primal instinctual nature of fear and terror in response to the unkown. The Cavia, ignorant and trusting when being sent into the void came out massively more intelligent and self-aware... yet fearful and paranoid, begrudging and spiteful, or desperately seeking approval and emotional reassurance. Entrati unlearned his haughty sense of self-importance, and the Cavia learned a similar sense of being for the first time. Within the void, that which is learned becomes unlearned... and that which occurs naturally becomes undone in the reverse. And then, what is lost to the void... manifests itself. The Void allows one great power through phenomenon such as Conceptual Embodiment... but for every great power it bequeaths it take away something just as important. Entrati gained knowledge and prestige at the cost of his composure and sense of self... the Cavia gained intelligence and awareness at the cost of happiness and serenity through ignorance... and the Tenno gained the power to "save them, all of them"... but at the cost of themselves. The Tenno became saviors, warriors, liberators, slayers...but they lost their innocence, their family, their memory, their agency, and perhaps even their sanity. They lost their "lives" as it were. Sure they may live on, but to what degree? By the start of "Awakening" can we even really say they still live and are not instead some ethereal void-born echoes taking the place of the people they once were? They put others at ease, reach into something broken and make it whole again, and can save a great many things from destruction... but in the process of gaining the abilty to do so they become little more than ghosts. You can see their grand, god-like powers as something amazing... but without their memories, without their loved ones, without their emotions and possibly without their physical bodies they are more akin to little more than ghosts from the past living within a hardy, biomechanical shell. Of course, healing is a two way street. As the Tenno help more and more people with their problems, as the Tenno save more of the Origin System, they in turn slowly begin to help themselves heal from this deal they made with the void. They regain memories. They regain their sense of self. They make new friends and allies as they adventure and help more people. They regain their agency and become free to walk on their own outside the dream or outside the paradox. In the case of the Drifter they even regain their emotions. All the while, retaining their grand powers in some way. All the while retaining all of the lives they saved and the good they have done. All the while gaining the best of both worlds. When the Man claimed that the Player Tenno was welching on their deal during the "Whispers in the Wall" quest... I don't just think he was talking about wanting that grimoire page and that's all. I think there was more to it. I think he was talking about the Tenno themselves, and their agency. "You gave yourself to me for this power... and now you disobey. You are breaking our pact. You are breaking our deal..." That I think is what I got from all of this.
You and StallorD are my favorite Warframe lore creators, love the content from you and each minute from it. Time to grab some snacks and enjoy this video
I know that the "Sentients" are weak against the "Void". But what if, that's a big "IF" that the "Sentients" could be the best aid against the"Void"? Remember how "Hunhow" used "Suda" to have his "Sentients" protected to enter into the "Void".😮
Honestly, they will have no choice. The Indifference is hostile on a fundamental level to living things, and seemingly reality itself. Just through sheer self-preservation it'd make sense to ally with the Tenno.
I’ve been theorizing about a future alliance between Tenno and Sentients for years, merely because of their common hatred for the Orokin who used them, both Tenno and Sentients, as tools rather than living beings. With these new developments, starting with the New War events, with both Hunhow and Erra becoming cooperative, and then the opportunity we are presented to make the Lotus be reborn as Natah, I think everything sets up this alliance perfectly. The Sentients could use our help to get back what they lost to the Void: the ability to reproduce. And in return, the Sentients could finally fulfill their original purpose: building a new world. It could be the perfect deal between us and them, maybe… setting up an expansion in the Tau system? This is a looooong shot, but that’s the reason why we’re here theorizing, after all.
What's a bit necessary to remember in my opinion is what Tagfer's mentioning regarding Wally, paraphrasing "It wants to join in, but it's sloppy." That might give some hints to why Cavia were treated as they were, toys in hands of a child that get (maybe unintentionally) destroyed for the fun of it; which in turn could explain why Albrecht might be so afraid of it - children are so unpredictable you cannot write any steady and long-lasting formulas around them. It could by the way also explain why the Cavia animals are able to communicate - don't children talk with their pets? (extra hopium that Wally kept Minn) In the end, the deal was made, the hand was shook, so perhaps on that front Tenno may end in a more favourable relationship, but I am not so sure if the king of cowards Entrati can trully overcome this wall and might even turn against us for this "betrayal".
The voice acting this update is just phenomenal. The absolute hate and vitriol in Tagfer's voice during the third rank up scene, genuine sorrow from Loid. Actually gave me chills.
Completely agree. Some of the voice acting in particular is so powerful that it really does elicit such intense emotions. Sign of great voice acting... and writing as well.
I didn’t realize how much this update brought lore wise it’s truly amazing what has become of Warframe. As a side note the picture at 17:21 would make a really cool wallpaper, just without the sand
I feel even if we don't take Entrati's side, the Void is a clear threat. It's capacity for destruction and corruption is beyond insane. And it would have eventually gotten out. Entrati is fighting a war across time, space, and dimension, setting the pieces. It makes him a monster, but a monster with the capacity to strike at a far greater beast, for so long as that beast is still yet contained.
Being someone who speaks Dutch, i knew that Cavia meant Guinea Pig as it's the word in Dutch too, i also have pet guinea pigs so that made it a bit funny to me that i'm leveling a faction called "The Guinea Pig"
Fascinating video which cast a new light on many aspects of the story. The part about the possible true purpose of the Zariman blew my mind. - Regarding Entrati's constant hesitation about his own nature, i always thought it was because the Indifference seemed capable of replicating someone identically, including their personality and memories (Kiddo, little Bengal), Entrati was constantly wondering if he was the original or the twisted copy. A copy so perfect (on the outside) it could believe being the original. For once, his cowardice serves him: the constant fear in which he lives allows him to question himself all the time. In his case, “I think therefore I am” was no longer a sufficient proof of his existence. - Finally about Duviri, i still think it was "created" by the Drifter, as an imaginary heaven where he where he could take refuge and escape reality. But his imagination was marked by what he knows, namely the tales written by Euleria. After all, all the teaching of the youngsters was taken care of by Euleria from a very young age. The Tales of Duviri was their emotional support, the "manual" on how control and regulate their own emotions. It then seems normal that her teaching is reflected in their imagination.
Thanks Siege for your stellar work. Your ideas and comparisons are always so well displayed and thoughtful. I always look forward to your insight. You keep doing you!
Thank you! Warframe's lore is hard because it's like 70 percent speculation but... I just try to show as much evidence as possible, and let you all make your mind up about it! Seems like the best way to do it in the end.
What i got from the whole Duviri thing is that we created the void manifestation, as it was a story we heard aboard the zariman and was designed to defend those aboard from the horrors of the void by Euleria. Basically irony of a story meant to defend us from creating things, then being created in the void.
@@TheDsIEGE could have been, might not have been. Maybe both. Eternalism is the main point now. We do know drifter and thrax was there to see the removal of all islands that no longer exist, as all but 1 he cast into the void. The 1 being sent due to unease by the populace. Edit: looked at the fragments for duviri and it seems to be implying he was there from the start, but some islands were eaten by the void. Specifically "we are not what we were"
Bingo. The number of lines in fiction and reality where it's stated how frighteningly little it takes to get people to rationalize the ill they do as good, or "for their own good." Conquerors weren't "conquering" they were civilizing! Slave owners weren't enslaving people, they were "enlightening savages" Missionaries weren't destroying culture, they were "SAVING people for the LORD" Abominations and atrocities with a smile, and like Entrati when they're in those quiet moments of introspection or self-doubt (when he was in that pod), they'll turn away, rationalize, and delude themselves. And the process repeats again.
A thought - what if the light the Indifference wants is more literal than we thought. When adjusting the volume in the opening cutscene of the quest we hear that what Albrecht told Loid really was the Moon option. So, what if the Man in the Wall wants us to choose the Sun? The definition of a palimpsest is parchment that was scraped of its original writing, which can still be seen afterwards. Knowing the nature of eternalism, and taking into account my previous theory that the reason Wally made a deal with the Drifter was to limit reality to a certain branch(not setting us on a certain path he wants, but limiting us into a set of options that definitely contains that path), what if Wally needs the Tenno to rewrite the past and the future into a specific set of circumstances, and the way of doing that was by molding us into the person that would want it
Eluaria didn't create Duviri as location, but as novel, which was meant for Child, such as Tenno of Zariman. Drifter/Tenno is one that physically created Duviri in void in a way to cope with horrors.
Just a random question, wouldn't hunhow know a bit about the wall, since the sentients were sent into the void. Now that we're kinda frienemies with him, and hes millennias old, seems like the best person to ask about it.
Wally to me seems like a much better ally than Albrecht. Now that he really wanted something, he politely asked us for it and only attacked the Sanctum Anatomica directly, after we refused, which is fair. He gave us everything and we arenot even willing to give him a single book page to pay him back, thats insulting.
After watching this I'm wondering something that might be being overlooked... Albrecht Entrati went back in time... Is he responsible for the creation of the Orokin by some strange twist of fate?
Great video as usual. The more information we get, the more I see Albrecht as the culmination of everything wrong with the Orokin empires' ideals. He thought himself so above all consequence, even when faced with a cosmic being beyond comprehension, that he could simply "balance" out that newfound sentience with beastial unsentience. He stood in front of a mirror, and instead of smiling and reaching out a compassionate hand, he grabbed a sledgehammer and swung. I can't truly say if I hope for a redemption arc or one of justice, but at least one where he's forced to face all he has done. Because to me, one of the main points of this quest was to show that Albrecht still has humanity and compassion in him, to some degree. Why would he otherwise strive to protect Loid in the end? Refuse to "tagfer" Kalymos? If he was truly indifferent, he wouldn't bother the fight to save anything, and just let the wall consume it all. The first lore entry when he's still maimed by the wall tells us his pride is broken, ready to die, but is instead replaced by... Blameless love. Overall, super curious to see where they take it from here, and if there's even a way for Mr Driptrati to atone for all of his crimes.
Im suprised that it's taken DE THIS LONG to make a compelling syndicate with absolutely fantastic voice acting. Like jeez, I teared up at a couple of the cinematics because they were genuinely so well done.
We build walls in order to protect ourselves. With the Void being 'anti-existence' (as in us calling a deathwish 'the call of the void' irl), it's utterly fitting that 'anti-peace' (the new war) manifests as a wall. Come to think of it: we, the tenno, act as symbols of peace and stability, yet we do so by killing. Despite him being presented as a hired assassin, could it be that the Stalker is actually a manifestation of our own guilt? That he actually exists only because we were touched by the Void?
@@TheDsIEGE IIRC, DE did state that for 2024, we are supposed to be getting more lore related to the Stalker. There's a good chance that one of the major updates this year will be touching upon that.
I can see both Entrati and the Indifference being our true enemy; but, some key information was missed from Duviri. Listening to Tagfer scream and try to console us that the Mocking Whisper "isnt you, and just wearing your skin," the passages of Orokin teachings came to mind. Tenshin had taught us to control ourselves, which seems to have been paased down from Orokin culture to seperate your emotions from yourself, as to not let them control you. Seeing Alberts misguided attempts of atonement turn redemption as he fled for Loid, it was all to prove that he was the "real" Dr Entrati and not the whisper looking back from the void. In reality, I suspect that its both either and neither are the true Entrati, as the void seems to have extracted both into their most primal emotions. ...which, I have a sneaking suspicion since The Second Dream that we the Tenno, are not "real" either; quite possibly, our real body still present in the void as its fractured personas fight for dominance as the true ego. If true, the Indifference and Entrati will be the least of our concerns, as we can prove an even greater threat than both combined if events unfold as is.
The way Albrecht speaks really shows that he's at the edge of his limit. He's practically lost himself already, but he's still holding on for Loid's sake, with the goal of correcting his mistake.
The more I learn about the Cavia, the more I distrust Fibonacci. The way he just unerringly obeys Albrecht's orders and how he so callously murdered Minn under the guise of "fear of death" makes me thinks he's going to betray us the moment Wally decides to appear in Albrecht's skin.
As always with Warframe quests, we get some semblence of answers to old questions and a whole load of new ones. In the end, we end as we began. So tl;dr of the video is that Entrati is willing to manipulate everyone and sacrifice anyone, save from himself and his kavat Kalymos, in his war against the Man in the Wall. Given he's Orokin, that's not too surprising I guess. Very similiar vibes to Ballas - the great orchestrator. Different motivations, same methods. Now the greatest question still remaining is what the Man in The Wall wants in the end. It's clear he's not happy that we're sideing with Albrecht, at least at first glance, in this war, and that he's at the very least going to target the Lotus in some way to get to us, given the last cutscene of the quest. But what are his long term motivations beyond this war? What's Albrecht's intention with the Man in the Wall? To simply contain him, or destroy him completely? Seems more like the latter. So in a way, the Man in the Wall is fighting for its own survival. But what his motivations are beyond that? It still seems to me like he's more of a trickster-god/WH40k Tzeetch kind of character - he likes influencing events in the Origin system because that's a source of entertainment to him. But there could be more nefarious purposes too - takeover of everything, so that all there is is his Void-born universe of chaos. To what extent are Wally's actions in the name of his war against Albrecht, and to what extent is it about his other overarching motivations. One thing's certain - this is going to be a really interesting storyline.
I couldn't agree more. This was not a slam dunk concept but I think they did a really good job with the man in the wall. Even now, he's still ominous and creepy and we just don't know what we're dealing with. At the same time... we know a lot about him now, as well as Entrati. This is an epic war between two creatures. Who will win?
just found your channel recently, warframe lore always seemed too complex and hidden for me to understand but your videos summarize them in a very concise and entertaining way.
You know, Albrecht's response to the incident reminds me of an old fairy tale, in which a man is turned into bear, and assumes he must do a good deed in order to redeem himself, but is only redeemed by true love.
I could be wrong but it seemed to me that the Vessels were not made directly from the plague volunteers but rather grown from cultures and DNA samples taken from them, and that the Vessels are much like our current Warframes, inert bodies with no true consciousness of their own; though I suppose it could be argued that Warframes themselves do possess at least some measure of genetic memories from their original selves. So I don't think that there is any worry of displacing Arthur's consciousness, and that what happened to the Vessel made from his genetic material to change his eyes was what happens to all Warframes that we use transference on; we looked inside a broken thing and took away it's pain.
It's possible but... to me it seemed like these are actually humans. Just because he took samples doesn't mean he didn't use them in the end, and the fact that he calls for Arthur before talking to us on the Pom 2 seems to suggest he's speaking directly to Arthur, not a clone.
@@TheDsIEGE I believe that he initially calls for Arthur because he is talking to the physical body of Arthur, as we are seeing this message through his eyes from our transference stream. In my opinion, the working he uses seems to lean towards the Vessels being genetically modified clones with statements like "...take this material (the samples) and work with it" "brought the samples back to Deimos and began to cultivate them" "through precise biochemical engineering, I could create the equivalents of Warframes" However, I do agree that the wording is vague enough that the "samples" could very well be the actual humans given how he views the "dust of petty lives." Either way, I am excited to see what is next for the story and can't wait for your next video!
The genetic memory thing is confirmed in the Rhino Prime codex, where the scientists states that the Rhino knows what he did, how he's cut open dozens just like it before, and outright states not only its brothers and sisters, but flat out it's a genetic memory.
Your lore videos are the best and i love tuning in live it is also awesome that with this update and new lore a lot of stuff started to fall into place and i also believe when albert said "when the time is right come and find me" sounded like a call for help to end what is about to happen to the timeline and all the lore of Warframe
I personally believe he is in locked in a time just before his initial venture into the void. Due to the whole Eternalism thing, I feel like the man in the wall can't find a host entrati to corrupt that far back in time, thus offering him a level of protection. But... it also locks him back in a time where he's pretty much useless, so... it's a bit like Kevin Flynn in Tron, specifically when he stays off the grid so as not to alert CLU to his location, provided you've seen that movie, lol... I know it's pretty obscure.
@@TheDsIEGE and yet a valid reason and I feel that after warframe 1999 there will be a quest enhancing our resurgence ability allowing us to try and save Albert and actually meeting the man in the wall face to face leaving us on a cliff hanger for a bigger update later down the line
The part that keeps echoing in my head is what he said, let me prove im not a demon by my actions to paraphrase but seemingly he has done quite the opposite. He has sacrificed animals, abandoned his family potentially let the gray strain take them to ruin their memory aswell as many others to make the vessels and if youre correct about the zariman sacrificed the future of his civilasation and wielded some of its worst and most totalitarian aspects to do so killing all the adults on board, leaving children to carry his burden and for far too long a single autistic child. The rapsheet is sounding quite demonic in my opinion, he reminds me alot of nihil, they both had their reasons for doing as they did but both executors and both are monsters
@@TheDsIEGE All of it part of a grander plan? to lull the indifference into a false sense of security perhaps but the last thing it garners is trust which is what he seemed to want most of all from the operator
I feel you and a great number of people misunderstood the duviri section. Euleria WROTE the tales of duviri, the drifter CREATED the realm of duviri after reading it.
Love how you framed up all of this! Great summary and the end of the video was pretty mind-blowing. I play pretty sporadically, so I lose a LOT of context between cinematic quests 😢
I wanted to bring up something I thought of that is only tangentially related: the classic “we end as we began” line. I was inspired by some philosophical quote I had heard years ago that is only faint in my memory so I can’t even tell you where it is from. But here it goes: It is quite a threat. “We end as we began”. Every human came in to this world mindless, blind, afraid, traumatized, naked and covered in blood. This may be what the Man in the Wall wants to see everyone reenact before succumbing to death as reality shatters and burns around us.
Knowing more about the man in the wall the more chains of harrow quest infuriates me. I can only imagine how hard it was for Rell to not be believed by Lotus and basically rejected by her and having to fight him off by himself for so long.
34:40 funny you should say that. cause the battle theme in the zariman is literally called, "The Offering". it's in the soundtrack and in the somachord.
So I just realized that Albrecht is/was blind, and he has a bunch of dots on him like braille. In fact the back of his hat has the letter CE on them in braille. Not sure what to make of that, but could potentially lead into something since I've not seen people try and tackle that with analysis/speculation.
I have to note something. No matter how much Albrecht tried to change his looks his "clone" always matched whatever look he took and the same goes for the Operator. No matter what change the Operator did to their look their "clone" also took that change, except of the Drifter who never took the deal and got exposed but through the Paradox met the Operator and is now also an interest to the Man Behind The Wall. But the Drifter could also be key in this as they by themselves are an anomaly, a difference to the indefrrence, someone who can't be possessed by him and can't be controlled and even can barely be influanced as it seems. The Paradox as is seems is a realm that the void always wants to invade, wanting to leak void angels in, it seems like The Man Behind The Wall sees the Paradox aka Duviri as a threat that needs to be destroyed from within.
I'm pretty sure the Drifter did take the deal with Wally - and the Drifter is just the timeline where the Zariman isn't rescued from the Orokin In Duviri, Wally mocks the Drifter in one of the Zariman Tablet questions. He says "I said I'd save them, all of them. I never said I'd save you." That line implies the Drifter did take the deal, but it played out in a very different way.
@@ovencake523 That also could be possible but at the same time Wally is from beyond the Void and is trying to get into Duviri, a realm that seems to be out of his reach. He tries to send in Void Angels but fails meeting resistance from Thrax's forces which is the Drifter's own unintended creation. Whether the Drifter took that deal or not something the Drifter a threat to Wally. Being the only one to not have a Wally duplicate of them and someone who basically took over Duviri, a Paradox that Albrecht found only to come back later and quite literally changed the events of The New War. Think about it like this. The Drifter suddenly showed up, pulled the Operator into the Zeriman from one point of time in the origin system to another and then joined forces together to stop Narmar. To be able to affect time and space is a power that Wally definitely takes as a threat. So if Wally made a deal with the Drifter I sure hope he regrets it now because he potentially created his worst enemy.
@@Darth_Melek I don't think Wally considers the Drifter as a threat, i think Wally made the drifter This is going into my own speculation/interpretations In the New War, when our Tenno shakes Wally's hand, we see a multitude of copies of the Tenno die - these seem to be the myriad of realities where the Tenno does not survive. Wally merges the main timeline with the drifter timeline. We learn a little more about it this kind of merging from a Zariman Tablet question: What is the core thesis of The Palimpsest of Spacetime? A. Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist (correct) B. Everything that exists could, at any point, be erased From this, we see that events and timelines can be written on top of each other. I think this explains how we're able to swap between Drifter and Operator - Wally is able to overwrite one with the other. So, i think Wally let the drifter timeline exist as a kind of backup, in case the operator died or was compromised. He purposefully let the drifter stay in Duviri - "I said I'd save them, all of them. I never said that'd I save you"
@@Darth_Melek nope. i think he's some other being trying to expand his influence into both the origin system and duviri the Operators serve as tools toward some unknown end the drifter was a backup for that tool
Whenever I look out of the Sanctum, I look at all the walls and see the faces and fingers and I think. This is just a hypothetical question. Maybe the Man In The Wall doesn't have just one form. Maybe he is a formless being who observes and creates bodies for himself. Like his seems like his prime body is just a part of the wall. Like When I look up and see the big head I am like "Are we inside the Man In The Wall?" Stupid question, but I think it's possible.
@@TheDsIEGE Can't wait for more videos. Quick question, do you believe that the Void indirectly causes equivalent exchange? Someone loses everything dear to them to gain power or knowledge? Thanks for the lore!
I dont think that the Mother created Duviri, but it was her work that got reflected by the Void, her book and thats why Albrecht recognises it, she doesnot have to be personaly involved in the interaction with the Void.
I believe the bringing samples forward is like trimming off a yeast bud from the main body, the travel through timelines twisting the relative position of the plague year and our current moment into a loop, nice close and easy to access
Euleria created duviri as the book tells of duviri, that was the spark that let the duviri realm to exist and because of eternalism the drifter could have created duviri’s realm and insert himself some time after the creation of it maybe. Probably all of this was part of Euleria’s plan
I love how entrati is basically making Megazords warframes from the gray strain combined with helminth and his project of grown homunculi Giants in his labs
I really wonder how much we are going to be in a kinda timeparadox situation in Warframe 1999. Cause with Albrecht creating Proto-Warframes in 1999, isn’t it possible that Ballas got inspired by ancient scriptures from the human year 1999. I don’t really know of I like time travel in the Warframe plot, cause doesn’t it kinda clash with the already established Eternalism? Or is it exactly in support of that?
@@TheDsIEGE I’m also really hoping that we get some insight into Loid learing about what has happened to the Entrati family in his absence. Since he just tells construct Loid to tend to the family. It kinda implies that he already knows what has happened to them (and that they are even still alive). Cause I assumed that the Deimos situation is new and fresh out of statis Loid should not be aware of that.
It's going to lead to absolutely wild situations in the future. We're talking about the massive dangling, tasty lure of potentially snuffing out the Orokin Empire before it can ever form. Imagine being the option of elimating the cause of thousands of years of suffering by The Indifference, moments in time you can alter and the Orokin are no more. All in exchange of X. It also means Albrecht is in prime position to be a huge threat, because alterations could vastly alter history if he's threatened in one of his mad schemes.
@@RicochetForce Yeah but in undoing the Orokin it would undo Albrecht and if we know one thing about the Orokin, it is that they are they are first and foremost egoists. So Albrecht would never undo himself to solve his problem. Also I just don’t think that Eternalism can go that far. What I assume is that Warframe 1999 will actually be more of a prequel to Warframes story while also showing us more of Warframes concept of time and space. I mean how did Albrecht know about the Tenno while Loid didn’t? Did he maybe also travel into the future. Or did he just turn the cube of Eternalism so exactly what he wanted would happen.
@@JodyrJoestar See how juicy this gets? He can drop that on us if we threaten to kill him. We DON"T know if he hasn't already altered things to give us our current advantages, or isn't already using future tech without us knowing.
It's also worth noting that only Entrati feared the indifference. The rest of the Orokin didn't even believe it existed, and only saw the Void as a resource to be exploited.
Did they not believe or not want to believe? I find it odd that Twins were explicitly banned from Orokin society, like the twin grineer queens. What would make them fear beings that looked alike?
@@TheDsIEGE If you could create an endless supply of fleshbags and just bodyhop from one to the next, I could see the Orokin would grant far greater status to someone who chose unique bodies with each hop. From clones it's not hard to draw a line to twins, etc. I fail to see the relevance to this topic though. The Orokin were immensely arrogant, believing they were the kings of all creation. I can completely see them ignoring the potential threat of the indifference when a single scientist, who barely escaped with his life due to a failed experiment, is the only one yelling about it. Hell, Entrati himself wasn't sure it wasn't him stuck in the wall and that the indifference was the version of him that escaped.
At this moment, my theory is that the Void really was just a empty void of nothing before Albrecht entered it. But the void reacts strongly to emotion and thought, giving shape, creating. The man in the wall is a unintentional creation of Albrecht. As much as our doppelganger is a creation of our Tenno's will and mind. The man in the wall/the Indifference is not a singular being. One exists for every sentient being that has ever entered the void.
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. I have three different accounts now just to play the story. I've been through the entirely of the game 3 times now and wow would it just have been easier to replay...
Not sure if this was answered in the quest or not. But what was the deal that the operator made on the zariman and was Wally aware that Albrecht needed them for the vessels in the future?
We still don't know for sure. We know his part of the deal was saving "all of them" but... we still don't know truly what the man in the wall wants from us. Maybe soon.
I quit Warframe 3 years ago and moved to pc from switch and used to love your videos, all this time later I can finally play again thanks to cross save and I'm so glad to see you still making content, I've got a lot to catch up on thank you
39:34 thats seems more like Evangelion to me really. The fact that Shinji's father was willing to sacrifice his own son and wife's clone to achieve his "Scientific discoveries" made me realize how similar to Entrati he is.
Albrech from what it seems is a direct parralel to the wall, one is timid, shy, a coward , while the other is bold, and always prodding. But i think the one similarity betwen them is their indifference.
I keep finding it odd at then end of the quest that our man in the wall and Albercts interacted with each so I'm curious if there's multiple of them the one he encountered and we saw wich is the indifference and the one we've been dealing with the man in the wall .
Sometimes when I go to Quinn he says "I can perceive 2 presence within you do you wanna know who is the real one? ". When possessed, the person is no longer alone in his mind & body like a parasite constantly draining and following him. Everywhere he went Albericht said that he was followed by indifference everytime sinsce they meet, the tenno is followed by him every time everywhere. Also transference look a lot like demonic possession to me bcs of its properties (taking control of a living organisms like orowyrm, necramech, WARFRAMES etc... like a parasite). An ability inherited from indifference himself, so what if he can do it himself no matter who is the target? I think he can parasite every being that comes into direct contact with him, that means he's inside every one of them since he met them hence why he can take tenno and antrati's shape. I may be wrong but it makes a lot of sense for a many things if it's true.
I would love to see a video about the major factions(orokin, sentient, tenno, corpus, infested, grineer) about their lore, size population etc. There are already a few videos about this on youtube, but I think your style would be very interesting to watch.
One thing about the entire vid os when you're speaking about the Sanctum, I am pretty sure the grey Indifference themed parts arent built by anyone. As seen in the ending of the quest, it appears by itself and tales pver the lab, meaning it was not an original part of it. It is pretty much The Indifference/The Murmur tranaforming land itself in it's image including the finger imagery, maybe as to mock albrecht not vice versa, and I would argue that it is some sort of inner world of the Indifference. As for the experiments on people to create the vessels, I could argue that what Albrecht means by 'those who volunteered' is that he did actually cure people normally, but he also offered some of them to undergo the experiments and took those who agreed, of course they still probably didn't onow the end goal, but at least it was done with consent if that turns out to be true. As I understood it wasn't the people themselves who were turned into the giants, but tiny samples of them after being transformed, talen bacl and then exposed to the Grey Strain which then basically were used as STEM Cells. Though as for what happens to Arthur's consciousness is also a mystery to me. As far as I understand the vessels work differently than warframes, the way I see them is that by being constructed from the 'humanity' of people by taking samples from them and growing them with the Grey Strain and combining that with the Void, they act as sort of conduits and containers, being able to transfer back to the original holder and 'ride alongside them' in their mind as we see Arthur aclnowledge. Then we also see that the eyes are still normal after exiting the vessel for the first time, and only go blank after touchong the Man In The Wall controlled Vessel. So now my question is, could our Tenno have done a macro scale version of Transferrence, and put Arthur's consciousness in the attacking Vessel, overriding Wall-e's control? It's definitelly something we probably won't have an answer for until the 1999 quest. And as to the question if Albrecht is good or evil... ironically, I thinl in defying the Indifferwnce he has become equal to it himself, a truly morally ambigious True Neutral character, not doing things because they are good or evil, but because he believes it necessary, whether they are good or not, 'The goal justifies the means'.
I wonder if the 'cold indifference' that Albrecht saw in the void was himself. An Orokin, corrupted beyond all semblenence of humanity, indifferent to the suffering it causes by wearing the skins of sacrifices to continue living forever. A process where the Queen's showed they made a game of playing with and breaking the minds of the victim to make way for their own conciousness to takeover. And when he went into the void, a seemingly innocent empty realm untouched by such evil that shined a new light on how he saw himself. Albrecht seems fundamentally different from other Orokin of his stature, even physically he doesn't share their look and rejects living forever through Kuva. I have to wonder if the void 'other' is the Albrecht that escaped the void and the man in the wall is the original Orokin. Or perhaps some part of the Orokin Albrecht's host still survived and there really was nothing in the void except the two souls stuck together in continuity. The Orokin in the wall, trying to retrieve 'his' missing body part, the body of Albrecht that ran away and left him in the void.
Personally, I feel that Albrecht went into a completely blank void, and ended up tainting that realm by virtue of his existence. All of the sins and emotions that go into creating an Orokin were engraved into a realm that reacts with emotion, and the end result was the Man in the Wall, the embodiment of the indifference Orokin practiced as a matter of course.
@@calebmacenka3132 That is also a good way of seeing it. I feel like the Man in the Wall should be something more than just an Orokin but I think whatever it is, it's reacting to that fundamental sin of what the Orokin are.
@@TheRiiiight I don't think it's just an Orokin, but rather the Void staring not just into Albrecht, but seeing all of the little interactions and cultural norms of the civilization that made the person known as Albrecht Entrati. Albrecht was essentially the representation of Orokin civilization to the Void, and all of the sadism and indifference of that civilization resulted in the creation of the Man in the Wall,
At the end of the day, due to the inherent nature in creating a Orokin, means the murder of a Yuvan. The Orokin, no matter how nice each one may seem, have without hesitation murdered and subsumed at least one person, by their very nature, as expounded upon with Executor Tuvul, states that non-Orokin are not perceived as even remotely approaching the worth of Orokin. A caste and race of amoral misanthropes.
Yes, in the end the orokin are literally the worst types of people, but yet a people that can easily see being produced from such excess at the cost of everyone else around them.
I'm not entirely sure the Zariman Ten-Zero incident was done intentionally by Albrecht, while it's possible he knew it would happen I think it happened largely due to traditional Orokin greed. There's also a possibility that the Man in the Wall caused it as well. I can't shake the thought that the Zariman failing to go to Tau and only the proto-sentients going to Tau was very helpful to his goals. (it's implied in the Duviri tablets that the sentients existed at the same time as the Zariman and they were only intended to build the gates between Tau and Pluto.) As for the Vessels. I don't think they are the human experiments but grown from samples of them. though due to the fact that they're just giant warframes there's probably a lot of weird void stuff happening with them like with Excalibur Umbra.
I guess I look at it more like he said, he used ballas warframe design which come from humans so... in my opinion, I think the vessels were actually people at one point made into warfrrames and then grown large with grey strain. I suppose we'll find out for certain in the future, but the fact that he calls it Arthur seems to imply its... well it's arthur, not just some samples of his cells.
It makes sense for Entrati to have the Orokin send the Zariman into the void. Maybe in an act of desperation he arranged for thousands and thousands of human ‘distractions’ to be flung into the void, hopefully distracting The Man. Which is what happened with the Zariman children.
I think a big part of Albrecht's miscalculations is that he is basically doing the same as throwing a nuclear bomb at a black hole. This is shown at the end of the quest when we take control of the vessel. If it was Albrecht, he would've probably tried to punch the other vessel in the face, where as we, through compassion/love, the opposite of indifference, manage to subdue and stop the murmur from taking over the sanctum completely.
In a sense Albrecht is still trapped in the wall, through his own apathy towards the lives he is willingly throwing away or neglecting, justifying it by fighting the greater evil.
Yup, he is unwittingly channeling the very indifference he is fighting. Yet doesn't recognize he'd encountered the solution to it when he felt what he felt towards Loid, what he feels towards Kalymos. So yeah, he's still trapped in that wall in a way.
Yes, very much so. His fear has forced him into all kinds of craziness and you're right, whether he's actually trapped, the man that left that encounter never left the void in his own mind. Very dangerous precedent...
Perhaps, The "Man" in the wall is actually Entrati himself.
If people's emotions can manifest themselves as paradoxes... Who's to say that Entrati's own selfishness didn't spawn the indifference?
The entire account from his incursion into the void, could simply be the ravings of a madman.
Hate AND love are the opposite of indifference.
The reason why the tenno subdued the murmur is the same reason why the helped umbra just like ballas said in his logs "And it was not their force of will - not their Void devilry - not their alien darkness... it was something else. It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing - and take away its pain."
They better be paying their writers FAT checks this is gold
Frfr ballas gave me chills when he said this @@GhostOfBuscemi
Their compassion. Which I think is the best way to deal with Wally.
if 'the wall' reflects back the opposite of what it is shown,
if the goldfish gains massive intellect,
if the uncaring avian gains empathy,
what does this say of the originals?
if the last cervulite gains enough awareness to hold a grudge,
and finally,
if tenno, the drifter rather, was the opposite of what they became, an innocent little child, ultimately left to align with the tenno through an excruciating loss of that innocence,
then Albrecht's adversary, is the opposite of a fearful, timid man, who has attachments he is unwilling to part with, who has luck and fortune, and a very clear streak of sociopathy, will be the most dangerous adversary to his foes, not because his confidence, willingness to unchain himself, but because his destruction doesn't come from indifference - his destruction came from hate, and only once did Entrati learn to love at the very end, did the indifference begin to make itself known again, feeling, spiteful. Or did it? Whatever Entrati is, the man in the wall isn't. If we understand Entrati, we understand our void-born... friend.
This is a very well conceived point. And I think it says a lot about every person the void has touched...
@@TheDsIEGE touched because they were in a position to be touched or because they were where they were when they met the presence in the void? I’m just questioning the part about the exposure and whether or not that comes in a play as far as……well everything.
This also explains why the tenno can control warframes, they were orokin children who probably inherited their parents' supremacist thoughts, and the void flipped their personalities to be compassionate to the pain of the warframes (and vessels too). Ballas called us twisted and devils because he could not comprehend what the tenno had become: kind people. So basically Ballas was a Karen.
White space with black stars
@MultiKombo Yeah... Now that you mention it, Tenno should have been like that... and if the void flips you 180 than your worst might come to be the best...
It could be that because they were children, some of their aspects didn't really surface or yet fully form, like the inborn courage, fear of unknown, their own personas you know, that they were kinda like, almost...kind of blank pages but with supremacist thought processes and logic planted inside and we,the operator was just a little more blank and thus ACTUALLY survived bacause of that.. haha if you are a basic bitch even if thats flipped over you are still kinda a basic bitch .. the irony LOL
I guess the last couple experimental animals only survived because the void realised something throught the other's deaths, that uniqueness that entranti thought the void chased was in actually, all, a being that gets turned inside out and outside in, gets unique in a way,or it might have wanted to somehow intice Entranti without him realising... BIGBRAIN VOID
So, if entranti looked into the void and thus it looked inside him and turned him a upside down, into indifference of sacrifice...
what if the void just yearns to know and feel more because it can't grow thoughts by itself, like it's indifferent to it's INTELLIGENCE as well and only gets stimulated and by thus can think?
or what if the Man in the wall just... feels lonely?
"LETS GIVE HIM A HUG" :D (he always spooks me out of nowhere ngl...) nah handshake will do xD
Let's not forget that all of the Entrati are Orokin. There entire culture was based on self indulgence at the expense of those weaker. The Tenno should finish what they started.
Yep... they really are the worst people, aren't they, lol
We usually see Daughter as 1 of the only decent Orokin, and as we see during the Veil breaker content, even she is racist and privileged and the only reason she ends up helping Kahl is because she is powerless because of her infestation while Kahl uses her hunger for knowledge to help him and eventually she opens up to him and develops a soft spot.
It's kinda funny how as cruel and painful mutation by infestation might sound, it is the only reason why the Entrati family is tolerable.
@@thimovijfschaft3271 Imagine how monstrous you have to be that you have to be riven by infestation to even THINK about opening up to others.
Based.
@@RicochetForce You know what they say, "Illness will either divide us further, or bring us closer together."
The operator reports do say the drifter “established” Duviri as a place to live. When Albrecht says Euleria created Duviri, I believe he means she wrote the book. He does say her creations are REVERBERATING and growing in the void. Basically saying the ideas she had, have begun to grow separate from her.
It's like reading a book and then dreaming about the story of the book so it became more larger than it originally was.
This also ties into what we learned in the Angels of Zariman about Conceptual Embodiment. Euleria wrote the book, then through the echoes of the tenno (the drifters) and the raw exposure to the void, duviri was made manifest. That could explain why Duviri is such an emotional place, compared to the indifference of the rest of the void. The drifters, the ones who rejected the Man in the Wall's deal, were left to fend for themselves. Fear, Anger, Envy, Sorrow, and even Joy, would be found in abundance in a place like the void stricken Zarriman.
The Tenno being like the Cavia and the people on the Zariman being thrown to hell on purpose didn't occur to me. Thanks for the new perspective!
There are just so many coincidences that at some point one has to ask, are they actually coincidence?
i too agree i never even thought about it like that. . . if its one thing these lore videos do is make more sense and kinda put random pieces together that were not there before.
Likewise, but it makes a lot of sense when you think on it.
I disagree as we don't have anything to show that albrecht was a member of the seven so yes with his knowledge of the void and the man in wall at the time he could interpret it as a experiment but not one of his own making
I also don't believe the council of seven viewed it as such either but the similarities are vary much there nonetheless
I mean it doesn't help at all that the Zairmen was going to commit itself to a long term void jump to save time. Most void Translations or jumps are short term ( within the Solar system, try to limit void exposure). In a bid to get to Tau sooner they went from doing multiple void jumps to trying one really big one.
I think the choice you have to pick is the lesser evil. Albert is doing everything he can to fight a war that cannot be touched and avoid being touch by it.
But doesn't it seem by just leaving it alone, it was almost inert? Is all of it necessary in the end, that's what 1999 has to answer for us.
@@TheDsIEGEnot quite…… just because we don’t see much moving doesn’t mean that what is in play is standing still. This is like 40 chance and we can only see two or 3D.
@@TheDsIEGE I agree.
If you are swarmed by wasps... Who is truly to blame?
> The wasps?
> Or the hand that shook the nest?
Entrati is the one who opened this entire can of worms to satisfy his own selfish curiosity.
Now we know, that everything up unto this point was a grand scheme to destroy the indifference.
Maybe the wasps are simply defending their nest?
1. Love these lore vids.
2. I have an addiction to long form content like this.
3. DE needs to make all the quests replayable.
I agree with all three! It might sound self serving but... I like my vids too! Thank you so much!
Are they not??
@@umaninstrumentalityprject2989 OP forgot that they usually start unreplayable and usually becomes replayable in a couple months after launch :)
@umaninstrumentalityprject2989 some of them are, but others, like whispers in the walls, are not
@@CalamortarWITW will probably be made replayable in the echoes update
28:06 I think when Albrecht refers to Euleria "creating" duviri, he's talking about her writing the stories. I think the Drifter still manifested it in the void
Yea, the Tales of Duviri is as mentioned in the questionaties: a set of mental exercises to keep ones sanity in the case of void exposure. It makes sense that someone would need to have written that.
I agree. I don't think it is a confirmation that she created it. But it makes sense that Albrecht would think she did
Yes, "Tales of Duviri" were a series of allegorical fables to teach children emotional regulation as another safeguard from void exposure.
more specifically it was another safeguard against Conceptual Embodiment - the tendency of the void to manifest extreme emotions after coming into contact with consciousness.
Its how the Holdfasts were made, they are literal manifestations of their guilt. Skittergirl is a manifestation of Yonta's teenage anxieties. Duviri is a manifestation of "Tales of Duviri"
I just realized as Albericht’s logs go on his way of speaking becomes less and less like he’s struggling to speak. Like he’s getting more and more comfortable speaking.
Something interesting I noticed about Albrecht is how much he reminds me of Ozymandias from Watchmen. Both are geniuses pursuing ends that we would theoretically consider to be good, but ultimately their good intentions are offset by their usage of methods that result in a lot of lives being lost, as well as their indifference to those casualties. To top it off, both have their own genetically modified pet feline.
I thought of that too!!!! He's very Ozymandias like indeed!!
It would've been nice if you looked up on that cliff in the Sanctum. Quite a number of people doesn't know that Wally is just staring at us above there. 😅
Ok so... I actually got real close using captura and Ivara's Navigator and the man face up there is pretty much the same as the rest of them in that area, A stone Effigy so I'm not sure it's "him" as we might think. That being said, the thing underneath? Well to me that's horrifying
@@TheDsIEGEthe “Thing” underneath 😉
@@TheDsIEGE I'm glad you mentioned it in the video, I noticed it the other day just looking around. It's interesting because the giants in the sanctum one has a heart beat the one that we used as Arthur does not. Also if you get closer to the hole it's coming from you can hear breathing, which sounds like it's coming from TMitW. And it almost lines up with how the being underneath the entire place is laying.
Also it got me thinking that other bright lights we see in the distance could be other versions of sanctum in this infinite wastelands. But if it's true, then the one head with missing light and instead is pouring infinite dust from it's mouth is getting more disturbing.
PS. He also watching at boss arena from above with a smile. We doing everything we can and he just smiles
@@TheDsIEGEIf you can find the trapezoidal portal in the labs, check underneath towards the clouds far below. You can see the full silhouette of what’s down there. It’s the Man in the Wall. And he’s colossal
The tenno did create Duviri. It was based off of a book that was meant to teach children how to control their emotions so they wouldn't spawn dangerous void manifestations when traveling through the Void during to Zariman Ten Zero's jump. The book was written by Eularia Entrati though. We learn this from the data pad Questions in Duviri. So while the Tenno spawned it, it was Eularia's world.
Duviri the location was created via Conceptual Embodiment by our Drifter while they were lost in the void and were the first king of the land until abdicating the throne allowing Dominus Thrax to take over, the reason Euleria is involved in Duviri is because she wrote it as a childrens book to help the Zariman children understand how to control their emotions during void travel, which is why she's the narrator for any playthrough of the zone
God the Cavia rank up cutscenes, especially rank 3 is voice acted phenomenally. Warframe has a bevvy of great VAs but I think the Cavia are the cream of the crop
Did anyone else notice that the gargoyle is a combination of all three cavia animals?
nope. good eye
After hearing this codex it made me think that what Albrecht's voice, they way he talks, the short breaks between the words is the result of his "new voice" after Loid nursed him
Hello, just a random dude but i came to voice something i noticed after watching your videos on the MiTW.
Ive noticed that after you mentioned the void and emotions play a huge role with eachother that multiple missions that had something to do with the void had a theme around emotions.
Duviri - emotional cycles and the drifters emotions as a child
War within - multiple choices the player makes is what emotion they felt in moments of the incident
Chains of harrow - a boy who either couldn't understand emotions or couldn't control them
The sacrifice - about how a tenno controls a warframe through soothing the victims emotions
Ect
But what i also noticed is that EVERY sun, moon or neutral choice you make throughout the game is an emotional response to the situation being presented with sun normally being an aggressive response and moon being a accepting response and neutral being... well neutral or numb to the situation.
It's all interconnected in the end, don't you think?
That’s not quite how the sun and moon answers are, it’s based off yin and yang with sun being committed without reflection and moon being cold water, all things come in time. Between sun and moon unfolds a winding path; not by one way alone is mastery achieved. To take from the litany of the Dax. Yin and yang are a balance not good or evil. You can also see this during the war within. The “neutral” option is to tell teshin to stand down and kill her yourself. The other options are letting her rot a painful death in her decaying body, or having teshin kill her for you, as he requested
@@6zwbob meh
Revenge, rot or judicial execution. You make a good point
And thus youve perfectly summed up why my Operator/Drifter is pure neutral.
Theyve become numb to everything, there is no good or bad. No black or white. Just a sea of shifting greys.
My Tenno is a mercenary, a weapon, not even a person, and that cold calculating nature is the only reason they've survived thus far.
In my headcanon, anyway 😅
I must say you are keeping my love for Warframe lore alive and fresh. Sometimes flipping my head canon on its head.
So much in the game is said, but so much more isn’t. Which I love. Gives it wiggle room to grow. To explain.
Please keep doing what you’re doing. Love the content!
Thank you!!! I'm glad you appreciate it! And I've got a lot more coming in the future!
The idea of Entrati being led forward based on the Evil Genius concept is very funny to the tiny part of my brain that still remembers my philosophy minor, lol. Great vid!
I'm curious if our operator's lack of memories is tied into all this somehow, given how many people in this world seem to have similar symptoms
It all seems interconnected in the end, does it not?
👍
I don't think entrati was/is a coward so much as desperate. He looked into the void and something stared back. That terrified him because the more he became involved, he realized it is an extremely powerful force, god-like. Knowing this, he realizes that there's nothing he can do to stop it, especially after all he's tried. He then realized that children, while being youthful, their brains although less developed, are able to learn more quickly and efficiently, and not to mention, they can hold that information for a longer period of time. He probably realized that was his/our best hope and went down that path. To everyone else, he looks like a mad man and a sadistic coward, but nobody else has seen into the eyes of the void like he did. But, I could be wrong. Maybe the man in the wall is a product of albrecht going in to the void in the first place and the man in the wall IS a future version of albrecht from the alternate time line, due to that eternity theory and albrecht is trying to destroy himself and doesn't even realize its him. This would explain why the void entity, seemingly omnipotent, doesn't harm the operator or albrecht, but only seems to attempt it, because he's just guiding everything in history that led to his ascension as the man in the wall. So he's not trying to stop them, more like guiding everything as to fulfill his own self prophecy of himself.
Actual big brain. See you after warframe 1999 if this is true
I have a lot of thoughts about all of this, and this quest gives me quite a lot to theorize on.
First, I definitely feel like Albrecht is a flawed, brilliant, and broken man with ultimately "Good" intentions but horrifically misguided by his own fear, hubris and ego. I do not necessarily think the "indifference" "man in the wall" or "shadowself" is necessarily an entirely malevolent entity either though I by no means feel like it is a benevolent one. I do feel though, as if the war between the two is more than simply two opposing ideals. Its two opposing forces. It almost feels like it's humanity versus the universe itself. Though I am just not sure how.
The nature of the void and it's relation to the Man in the Wall is starting to feel very...indifferent so to say. Like the Man is not the void itself but almost more like a being created when conciousness meets the eternal mystery that is the void. Like him/they/it/their multitude is more like a conciousness fighting against whatever it comes into contact with, an entity born of the void and capable of using it's endless possibilites in an equally endless fashion... but always being somehow confined to the void itself. Trapped by a force that neither cares for or against it... but simply has it exist within it. At least, for now. I almost see the Man in the Wall and it's relationship to the origin system beings it is potentially born from like a funhouse mirror; the twisted opposite of yourself can never touch you so long as you and it are on opposite sides of the glass. But through the constant usage and manipulation of the void by the origin system- the constant casting of the physical into that etheral realm and vice versa by the Orokin, the Tenno, and various other entities- it feels like the "glass" so to speak is fading away. Like the twisted reflection, not quite yourself but also not simply the mirror, is grasping and trying to take as much of your self as it can so as to escape it's "prison". In doing so, in this continued theft of self by the reflection while you are interacting with that realm, by losing more and more of yourself to that reflection... you are changed forever as a result. The more the Man becomes you, the more unlike yourself you become.
This hypothetical scenario I'm talking about also feels like... almost like a perversion on "nature versus nurture" as a concept to me. However, instead of learned actions and attributes being at odds with natural instinct and urges, the void simply takes the opposite concept to attack whatever is more prevalent in a being. Like a scenario wherin a being's learned ideals and morality are stripped away by the void and reflected back at them to a degree, or their nature is twisted and reversed in on itself instead. Entrati, fueled by hubris and pride tried everything to prove himself right and make use of the initially useless seeming, empty void... only to learn a deep and powerful fear of what lies within it, his knowledge and education giving way to a primal instinctual nature of fear and terror in response to the unkown. The Cavia, ignorant and trusting when being sent into the void came out massively more intelligent and self-aware... yet fearful and paranoid, begrudging and spiteful, or desperately seeking approval and emotional reassurance. Entrati unlearned his haughty sense of self-importance, and the Cavia learned a similar sense of being for the first time. Within the void, that which is learned becomes unlearned... and that which occurs naturally becomes undone in the reverse. And then, what is lost to the void... manifests itself. The Void allows one great power through phenomenon such as Conceptual Embodiment... but for every great power it bequeaths it take away something just as important.
Entrati gained knowledge and prestige at the cost of his composure and sense of self... the Cavia gained intelligence and awareness at the cost of happiness and serenity through ignorance... and the Tenno gained the power to "save them, all of them"... but at the cost of themselves. The Tenno became saviors, warriors, liberators, slayers...but they lost their innocence, their family, their memory, their agency, and perhaps even their sanity. They lost their "lives" as it were. Sure they may live on, but to what degree? By the start of "Awakening" can we even really say they still live and are not instead some ethereal void-born echoes taking the place of the people they once were? They put others at ease, reach into something broken and make it whole again, and can save a great many things from destruction... but in the process of gaining the abilty to do so they become little more than ghosts. You can see their grand, god-like powers as something amazing... but without their memories, without their loved ones, without their emotions and possibly without their physical bodies they are more akin to little more than ghosts from the past living within a hardy, biomechanical shell.
Of course, healing is a two way street. As the Tenno help more and more people with their problems, as the Tenno save more of the Origin System, they in turn slowly begin to help themselves heal from this deal they made with the void. They regain memories. They regain their sense of self. They make new friends and allies as they adventure and help more people. They regain their agency and become free to walk on their own outside the dream or outside the paradox. In the case of the Drifter they even regain their emotions. All the while, retaining their grand powers in some way. All the while retaining all of the lives they saved and the good they have done.
All the while gaining the best of both worlds.
When the Man claimed that the Player Tenno was welching on their deal during the "Whispers in the Wall" quest... I don't just think he was talking about wanting that grimoire page and that's all. I think there was more to it. I think he was talking about the Tenno themselves, and their agency.
"You gave yourself to me for this power... and now you disobey. You are breaking our pact. You are breaking our deal..."
That I think is what I got from all of this.
You and StallorD are my favorite Warframe lore creators, love the content from you and each minute from it.
Time to grab some snacks and enjoy this video
I'm waiting for his video on all this to come out!!!
@@TheDsIEGE Soon ™️
I know that the "Sentients" are weak against the "Void". But what if, that's a big "IF" that the "Sentients" could be the best aid against the"Void"? Remember how "Hunhow" used "Suda" to have his "Sentients" protected to enter into the "Void".😮
Oh I think they will be allies before too long. the system will depend on it.
Honestly, they will have no choice.
The Indifference is hostile on a fundamental level to living things, and seemingly reality itself. Just through sheer self-preservation it'd make sense to ally with the Tenno.
I’ve been theorizing about a future alliance between Tenno and Sentients for years, merely because of their common hatred for the Orokin who used them, both Tenno and Sentients, as tools rather than living beings. With these new developments, starting with the New War events, with both Hunhow and Erra becoming cooperative, and then the opportunity we are presented to make the Lotus be reborn as Natah, I think everything sets up this alliance perfectly. The Sentients could use our help to get back what they lost to the Void: the ability to reproduce. And in return, the Sentients could finally fulfill their original purpose: building a new world. It could be the perfect deal between us and them, maybe… setting up an expansion in the Tau system? This is a looooong shot, but that’s the reason why we’re here theorizing, after all.
I think we will need some more Erra screen time. We need to free him from Pazul.
@@GC_Mars
New star chart New star chart New star chart
What's a bit necessary to remember in my opinion is what Tagfer's mentioning regarding Wally, paraphrasing "It wants to join in, but it's sloppy." That might give some hints to why Cavia were treated as they were, toys in hands of a child that get (maybe unintentionally) destroyed for the fun of it; which in turn could explain why Albrecht might be so afraid of it - children are so unpredictable you cannot write any steady and long-lasting formulas around them. It could by the way also explain why the Cavia animals are able to communicate - don't children talk with their pets? (extra hopium that Wally kept Minn)
In the end, the deal was made, the hand was shook, so perhaps on that front Tenno may end in a more favourable relationship, but I am not so sure if the king of cowards Entrati can trully overcome this wall and might even turn against us for this "betrayal".
The voice acting this update is just phenomenal. The absolute hate and vitriol in Tagfer's voice during the third rank up scene, genuine sorrow from Loid. Actually gave me chills.
Completely agree. Some of the voice acting in particular is so powerful that it really does elicit such intense emotions. Sign of great voice acting... and writing as well.
I didn’t realize how much this update brought lore wise it’s truly amazing what has become of Warframe. As a side note the picture at 17:21 would make a really cool wallpaper, just without the sand
Oh yeah, this update is a treasure trove for lore aficionados without question!
It's incredibly clear they wanted to start off the next chapter of Warframe's story on the most fertile soil.
I feel even if we don't take Entrati's side, the Void is a clear threat. It's capacity for destruction and corruption is beyond insane. And it would have eventually gotten out. Entrati is fighting a war across time, space, and dimension, setting the pieces. It makes him a monster, but a monster with the capacity to strike at a far greater beast, for so long as that beast is still yet contained.
always love watching your lore videos man, please keep doing them
Thank you!!!! I definitely will. There's so much yet to go over with this update not to mention the things I was working on before it...
Being someone who speaks Dutch, i knew that Cavia meant Guinea Pig as it's the word in Dutch too, i also have pet guinea pigs so that made it a bit funny to me that i'm leveling a faction called "The Guinea Pig"
"Cavia" in Italian means "Test Subject"
"Come join the murmur, we have free forma"- a totally normal tenno
If it's an umbral one count me in.
it is@@TheDsIEGE
Fascinating video which cast a new light on many aspects of the story. The part about the possible true purpose of the Zariman blew my mind.
- Regarding Entrati's constant hesitation about his own nature, i always thought it was because the Indifference seemed capable of replicating someone identically, including their personality and memories (Kiddo, little Bengal), Entrati was constantly wondering if he was the original or the twisted copy. A copy so perfect (on the outside) it could believe being the original. For once, his cowardice serves him: the constant fear in which he lives allows him to question himself all the time. In his case, “I think therefore I am” was no longer a sufficient proof of his existence.
- Finally about Duviri, i still think it was "created" by the Drifter, as an imaginary heaven where he where he could take refuge and escape reality. But his imagination was marked by what he knows, namely the tales written by Euleria. After all, all the teaching of the youngsters was taken care of by Euleria from a very young age. The Tales of Duviri was their emotional support, the "manual" on how control and regulate their own emotions. It then seems normal that her teaching is reflected in their imagination.
Thanks Siege for your stellar work. Your ideas and comparisons are always so well displayed and thoughtful. I always look forward to your insight. You keep doing you!
Thank you! Warframe's lore is hard because it's like 70 percent speculation but... I just try to show as much evidence as possible, and let you all make your mind up about it! Seems like the best way to do it in the end.
What i got from the whole Duviri thing is that we created the void manifestation, as it was a story we heard aboard the zariman and was designed to defend those aboard from the horrors of the void by Euleria.
Basically irony of a story meant to defend us from creating things, then being created in the void.
I was under the impression there was a time before Thrax' reign, I could be mistaken.
@@TheDsIEGE could have been, might not have been. Maybe both. Eternalism is the main point now.
We do know drifter and thrax was there to see the removal of all islands that no longer exist, as all but 1 he cast into the void. The 1 being sent due to unease by the populace.
Edit: looked at the fragments for duviri and it seems to be implying he was there from the start, but some islands were eaten by the void. Specifically "we are not what we were"
Still cannot wrap my mind around that the same man that voices astarion, voices fibonacci
NEIL VOICES FIBONACCI???
@@tsujii7240 i knew he sounded familiar wtf
true evil isn't the hurting of others.. true evil is when you rationalize the horrible things you do. to make yourself look altruistic
Absolutely and Entrati does that in mass quantity...
Bingo. The number of lines in fiction and reality where it's stated how frighteningly little it takes to get people to rationalize the ill they do as good, or "for their own good."
Conquerors weren't "conquering" they were civilizing!
Slave owners weren't enslaving people, they were "enlightening savages"
Missionaries weren't destroying culture, they were "SAVING people for the LORD"
Abominations and atrocities with a smile, and like Entrati when they're in those quiet moments of introspection or self-doubt (when he was in that pod), they'll turn away, rationalize, and delude themselves. And the process repeats again.
They syndicate cutscenes were hard hitting. The VA , scrip and music were epicly done
A thought - what if the light the Indifference wants is more literal than we thought. When adjusting the volume in the opening cutscene of the quest we hear that what Albrecht told Loid really was the Moon option. So, what if the Man in the Wall wants us to choose the Sun? The definition of a palimpsest is parchment that was scraped of its original writing, which can still be seen afterwards. Knowing the nature of eternalism, and taking into account my previous theory that the reason Wally made a deal with the Drifter was to limit reality to a certain branch(not setting us on a certain path he wants, but limiting us into a set of options that definitely contains that path), what if Wally needs the Tenno to rewrite the past and the future into a specific set of circumstances, and the way of doing that was by molding us into the person that would want it
Eluaria didn't create Duviri as location, but as novel, which was meant for Child, such as Tenno of Zariman. Drifter/Tenno is one that physically created Duviri in void in a way to cope with horrors.
That whole thing with that dialog is making cry so much because damn🥺🥺🥺
First time im on time for a video, been putting your vids on the background while farming the grotesque splinters, great work as always!
Thank you so much and good luck with your farming!!!!
Just a random question, wouldn't hunhow know a bit about the wall, since the sentients were sent into the void. Now that we're kinda frienemies with him, and hes millennias old, seems like the best person to ask about it.
Wally to me seems like a much better ally than Albrecht.
Now that he really wanted something, he politely asked us for it and only attacked the Sanctum Anatomica directly, after we refused, which is fair.
He gave us everything and we arenot even willing to give him a single book page to pay him back, thats insulting.
As always beautiful perspective and amazing video, always glad to be a part of this.
After watching this I'm wondering something that might be being overlooked... Albrecht Entrati went back in time... Is he responsible for the creation of the Orokin by some strange twist of fate?
Great video as usual. The more information we get, the more I see Albrecht as the culmination of everything wrong with the Orokin empires' ideals. He thought himself so above all consequence, even when faced with a cosmic being beyond comprehension, that he could simply "balance" out that newfound sentience with beastial unsentience. He stood in front of a mirror, and instead of smiling and reaching out a compassionate hand, he grabbed a sledgehammer and swung.
I can't truly say if I hope for a redemption arc or one of justice, but at least one where he's forced to face all he has done. Because to me, one of the main points of this quest was to show that Albrecht still has humanity and compassion in him, to some degree. Why would he otherwise strive to protect Loid in the end? Refuse to "tagfer" Kalymos?
If he was truly indifferent, he wouldn't bother the fight to save anything, and just let the wall consume it all. The first lore entry when he's still maimed by the wall tells us his pride is broken, ready to die, but is instead replaced by... Blameless love.
Overall, super curious to see where they take it from here, and if there's even a way for Mr Driptrati to atone for all of his crimes.
Im suprised that it's taken DE THIS LONG to make a compelling syndicate with absolutely fantastic voice acting. Like jeez, I teared up at a couple of the cinematics because they were genuinely so well done.
dude i haven't finished ranking up all the cavia yet and when that cutscene played with tagfers VA? Loid killed it too i was in shock
Is there any point to different vigils being used for syndicaties or just the basic sigil you get.
We build walls in order to protect ourselves.
With the Void being 'anti-existence' (as in us calling a deathwish 'the call of the void' irl), it's utterly fitting that 'anti-peace' (the new war) manifests as a wall.
Come to think of it: we, the tenno, act as symbols of peace and stability, yet we do so by killing. Despite him being presented as a hired assassin, could it be that the Stalker is actually a manifestation of our own guilt? That he actually exists only because we were touched by the Void?
It's very possible and something I hope they expound greatly upon in 1999. I literally can't wait to see what they do with that.
@@TheDsIEGE IIRC, DE did state that for 2024, we are supposed to be getting more lore related to the Stalker. There's a good chance that one of the major updates this year will be touching upon that.
well, he is a **SHADOW** stalker. jungian shadows and whatnot, you might be onto something
I hope that DE gives us the choice to side with the man in the wall or Albert.
That would be very interesting... I wonder what the split would be...
Yes please I want this so bad!
I so wanted to give wally the page if only just so see what would happen
@@chaosleader7263 Based. I want to march into Deimos and tell the entire entrati family what's going on underneath them and observe the chaos.
I can see both Entrati and the Indifference being our true enemy; but, some key information was missed from Duviri.
Listening to Tagfer scream and try to console us that the Mocking Whisper "isnt you, and just wearing your skin," the passages of Orokin teachings came to mind.
Tenshin had taught us to control ourselves, which seems to have been paased down from Orokin culture to seperate your emotions from yourself, as to not let them control you.
Seeing Alberts misguided attempts of atonement turn redemption as he fled for Loid, it was all to prove that he was the "real" Dr Entrati and not the whisper looking back from the void.
In reality, I suspect that its both either and neither are the true Entrati, as the void seems to have extracted both into their most primal emotions.
...which, I have a sneaking suspicion since The Second Dream that we the Tenno, are not "real" either; quite possibly, our real body still present in the void as its fractured personas fight for dominance as the true ego.
If true, the Indifference and Entrati will be the least of our concerns, as we can prove an even greater threat than both combined if events unfold as is.
Been watching your videos a lot lately and they've helped me catch a lot of things that went under my nose the first time around, excellent work!
Thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying them. Plenty more on the way!
The way Albrecht speaks really shows that he's at the edge of his limit. He's practically lost himself already, but he's still holding on for Loid's sake, with the goal of correcting his mistake.
Youve got to be my favorite lore youtuber, the quality and attention to detail is amazing. Thank you man love this
The more I learn about the Cavia, the more I distrust Fibonacci. The way he just unerringly obeys Albrecht's orders and how he so callously murdered Minn under the guise of "fear of death" makes me thinks he's going to betray us the moment Wally decides to appear in Albrecht's skin.
As always with Warframe quests, we get some semblence of answers to old questions and a whole load of new ones. In the end, we end as we began.
So tl;dr of the video is that Entrati is willing to manipulate everyone and sacrifice anyone, save from himself and his kavat Kalymos, in his war against the Man in the Wall. Given he's Orokin, that's not too surprising I guess. Very similiar vibes to Ballas - the great orchestrator. Different motivations, same methods.
Now the greatest question still remaining is what the Man in The Wall wants in the end. It's clear he's not happy that we're sideing with Albrecht, at least at first glance, in this war, and that he's at the very least going to target the Lotus in some way to get to us, given the last cutscene of the quest. But what are his long term motivations beyond this war? What's Albrecht's intention with the Man in the Wall? To simply contain him, or destroy him completely? Seems more like the latter. So in a way, the Man in the Wall is fighting for its own survival. But what his motivations are beyond that? It still seems to me like he's more of a trickster-god/WH40k Tzeetch kind of character - he likes influencing events in the Origin system because that's a source of entertainment to him. But there could be more nefarious purposes too - takeover of everything, so that all there is is his Void-born universe of chaos. To what extent are Wally's actions in the name of his war against Albrecht, and to what extent is it about his other overarching motivations.
One thing's certain - this is going to be a really interesting storyline.
I couldn't agree more. This was not a slam dunk concept but I think they did a really good job with the man in the wall. Even now, he's still ominous and creepy and we just don't know what we're dealing with. At the same time... we know a lot about him now, as well as Entrati. This is an epic war between two creatures. Who will win?
just found your channel recently, warframe lore always seemed too complex and hidden for me to understand but your videos summarize them in a very concise and entertaining way.
I'm glad you found me!
You know, Albrecht's response to the incident reminds me of an old fairy tale, in which a man is turned into bear, and assumes he must do a good deed in order to redeem himself, but is only redeemed by true love.
I could be wrong but it seemed to me that the Vessels were not made directly from the plague volunteers but rather grown from cultures and DNA samples taken from them, and that the Vessels are much like our current Warframes, inert bodies with no true consciousness of their own; though I suppose it could be argued that Warframes themselves do possess at least some measure of genetic memories from their original selves. So I don't think that there is any worry of displacing Arthur's consciousness, and that what happened to the Vessel made from his genetic material to change his eyes was what happens to all Warframes that we use transference on; we looked inside a broken thing and took away it's pain.
It's possible but... to me it seemed like these are actually humans. Just because he took samples doesn't mean he didn't use them in the end, and the fact that he calls for Arthur before talking to us on the Pom 2 seems to suggest he's speaking directly to Arthur, not a clone.
@@TheDsIEGE I believe that he initially calls for Arthur because he is talking to the physical body of Arthur, as we are seeing this message through his eyes from our transference stream. In my opinion, the working he uses seems to lean towards the Vessels being genetically modified clones with statements like
"...take this material (the samples) and work with it"
"brought the samples back to Deimos and began to cultivate them"
"through precise biochemical engineering, I could create the equivalents of Warframes"
However, I do agree that the wording is vague enough that the "samples" could very well be the actual humans given how he views the "dust of petty lives." Either way, I am excited to see what is next for the story and can't wait for your next video!
The genetic memory thing is confirmed in the Rhino Prime codex, where the scientists states that the Rhino knows what he did, how he's cut open dozens just like it before, and outright states not only its brothers and sisters, but flat out it's a genetic memory.
This lore video is awesome! just noticed in the albrecht entrati video, the man in the wall was missing a finger when he came out of the portal
Yep, and Entrati has it... somewhere.
Its on our railjack.
@@TheDsIEGE
@@TheDsIEGE I wonder if there's a man in the wall for every Tenno, hence the finger in the Railjack in the pod thing
Your lore videos are the best and i love tuning in live it is also awesome that with this update and new lore a lot of stuff started to fall into place and i also believe when albert said "when the time is right come and find me" sounded like a call for help to end what is about to happen to the timeline and all the lore of Warframe
I personally believe he is in locked in a time just before his initial venture into the void. Due to the whole Eternalism thing, I feel like the man in the wall can't find a host entrati to corrupt that far back in time, thus offering him a level of protection. But... it also locks him back in a time where he's pretty much useless, so... it's a bit like Kevin Flynn in Tron, specifically when he stays off the grid so as not to alert CLU to his location, provided you've seen that movie, lol... I know it's pretty obscure.
@@TheDsIEGE and yet a valid reason and I feel that after warframe 1999 there will be a quest enhancing our resurgence ability allowing us to try and save Albert and actually meeting the man in the wall face to face leaving us on a cliff hanger for a bigger update later down the line
Almost like in the new war where we got stuck in the void while the drifter was helping the star chart in our place
The part that keeps echoing in my head is what he said, let me prove im not a demon by my actions to paraphrase but seemingly he has done quite the opposite. He has sacrificed animals, abandoned his family potentially let the gray strain take them to ruin their memory aswell as many others to make the vessels and if youre correct about the zariman sacrificed the future of his civilasation and wielded some of its worst and most totalitarian aspects to do so killing all the adults on board, leaving children to carry his burden and for far too long a single autistic child.
The rapsheet is sounding quite demonic in my opinion, he reminds me alot of nihil, they both had their reasons for doing as they did but both executors and both are monsters
I couldn't agree more. So far... he's really failing big time in NOT being a demon. Unless, that's actually what he wants...
@@TheDsIEGE All of it part of a grander plan? to lull the indifference into a false sense of security perhaps but the last thing it garners is trust which is what he seemed to want most of all from the operator
I feel you and a great number of people misunderstood the duviri section. Euleria WROTE the tales of duviri, the drifter CREATED the realm of duviri after reading it.
Love how you framed up all of this! Great summary and the end of the video was pretty mind-blowing. I play pretty sporadically, so I lose a LOT of context between cinematic quests 😢
I have ot, so I'll get off of work right as this video releases
We'll be waiting for ya!
I wanted to bring up something I thought of that is only tangentially related: the classic “we end as we began” line.
I was inspired by some philosophical quote I had heard years ago that is only faint in my memory so I can’t even tell you where it is from. But here it goes:
It is quite a threat. “We end as we began”. Every human came in to this world mindless, blind, afraid, traumatized, naked and covered in blood. This may be what the Man in the Wall wants to see everyone reenact before succumbing to death as reality shatters and burns around us.
Knowing more about the man in the wall the more chains of harrow quest infuriates me. I can only imagine how hard it was for Rell to not be believed by Lotus and basically rejected by her and having to fight him off by himself for so long.
34:40 funny you should say that. cause the battle theme in the zariman is literally called, "The Offering". it's in the soundtrack and in the somachord.
Interesting indeed...
So I just realized that Albrecht is/was blind, and he has a bunch of dots on him like braille. In fact the back of his hat has the letter CE on them in braille. Not sure what to make of that, but could potentially lead into something since I've not seen people try and tackle that with analysis/speculation.
DE really cookin this update 👌
Thanks for Reading all the Possible Lores and Explaining the Story simple with your Beautiful Voice....💫
Thank you for coming by and enjoying it!!!
@TheDsIEGE yes...i always enjoy your Contents! Amazing work as always
I have to note something. No matter how much Albrecht tried to change his looks his "clone" always matched whatever look he took and the same goes for the Operator. No matter what change the Operator did to their look their "clone" also took that change, except of the Drifter who never took the deal and got exposed but through the Paradox met the Operator and is now also an interest to the Man Behind The Wall. But the Drifter could also be key in this as they by themselves are an anomaly, a difference to the indefrrence, someone who can't be possessed by him and can't be controlled and even can barely be influanced as it seems. The Paradox as is seems is a realm that the void always wants to invade, wanting to leak void angels in, it seems like The Man Behind The Wall sees the Paradox aka Duviri as a threat that needs to be destroyed from within.
I'm pretty sure the Drifter did take the deal with Wally - and the Drifter is just the timeline where the Zariman isn't rescued from the Orokin
In Duviri, Wally mocks the Drifter in one of the Zariman Tablet questions. He says "I said I'd save them, all of them. I never said I'd save you."
That line implies the Drifter did take the deal, but it played out in a very different way.
@@ovencake523 That also could be possible but at the same time Wally is from beyond the Void and is trying to get into Duviri, a realm that seems to be out of his reach. He tries to send in Void Angels but fails meeting resistance from Thrax's forces which is the Drifter's own unintended creation. Whether the Drifter took that deal or not something the Drifter a threat to Wally. Being the only one to not have a Wally duplicate of them and someone who basically took over Duviri, a Paradox that Albrecht found only to come back later and quite literally changed the events of The New War. Think about it like this. The Drifter suddenly showed up, pulled the Operator into the Zeriman from one point of time in the origin system to another and then joined forces together to stop Narmar. To be able to affect time and space is a power that Wally definitely takes as a threat. So if Wally made a deal with the Drifter I sure hope he regrets it now because he potentially created his worst enemy.
@@Darth_Melek I don't think Wally considers the Drifter as a threat, i think Wally made the drifter
This is going into my own speculation/interpretations
In the New War, when our Tenno shakes Wally's hand, we see a multitude of copies of the Tenno die - these seem to be the myriad of realities where the Tenno does not survive.
Wally merges the main timeline with the drifter timeline. We learn a little more about it this kind of merging from a Zariman Tablet question:
What is the core thesis of The Palimpsest of Spacetime?
A. Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist (correct)
B. Everything that exists could, at any point, be erased
From this, we see that events and timelines can be written on top of each other. I think this explains how we're able to swap between Drifter and Operator - Wally is able to overwrite one with the other.
So, i think Wally let the drifter timeline exist as a kind of backup, in case the operator died or was compromised. He purposefully let the drifter stay in Duviri - "I said I'd save them, all of them. I never said that'd I save you"
@@ovencake523 So you're saying that Wally is like Thrax? Another creation of you?
@@Darth_Melek nope. i think he's some other being trying to expand his influence into both the origin system and duviri
the Operators serve as tools toward some unknown end
the drifter was a backup for that tool
the zariman being a mega cavia is a theory im absolutely on board with
Whenever I look out of the Sanctum, I look at all the walls and see the faces and fingers and I think. This is just a hypothetical question. Maybe the Man In The Wall doesn't have just one form. Maybe he is a formless being who observes and creates bodies for himself. Like his seems like his prime body is just a part of the wall. Like When I look up and see the big head I am like "Are we inside the Man In The Wall?" Stupid question, but I think it's possible.
I think that's more likely in the end. The multitude unfolding...
@@TheDsIEGE Can't wait for more videos. Quick question, do you believe that the Void indirectly causes equivalent exchange? Someone loses everything dear to them to gain power or knowledge? Thanks for the lore!
Fibonacci even says that the Fragmented One is The Indifference trying to take shape.
I dont think that the Mother created Duviri, but it was her work that got reflected by the Void, her book and thats why Albrecht recognises it, she doesnot have to be personaly involved in the interaction with the Void.
Can't imagine the amount of time and effort required to make your videos. So thanks!
I'm really hyped for the next quest.
I believe the bringing samples forward is like trimming off a yeast bud from the main body, the travel through timelines twisting the relative position of the plague year and our current moment into a loop, nice close and easy to access
Euleria created duviri as the book tells of duviri, that was the spark that let the duviri realm to exist and because of eternalism the drifter could have created duviri’s realm and insert himself some time after the creation of it maybe. Probably all of this was part of Euleria’s plan
Albrecht's ringtone is the intro to Bad To The Bone.
Assuming that is intentional, it is clear to see how he views himself in relation to Loid.
I love how entrati is basically making Megazords warframes from the gray strain combined with helminth and his project of grown homunculi Giants in his labs
I really wonder how much we are going to be in a kinda timeparadox situation in Warframe 1999. Cause with Albrecht creating Proto-Warframes in 1999, isn’t it possible that Ballas got inspired by ancient scriptures from the human year 1999.
I don’t really know of I like time travel in the Warframe plot, cause doesn’t it kinda clash with the already established Eternalism? Or is it exactly in support of that?
Without question. Entrati's meddling with time can change everything if you think about it....
@@TheDsIEGE I’m also really hoping that we get some insight into Loid learing about what has happened to the Entrati family in his absence. Since he just tells construct Loid to tend to the family. It kinda implies that he already knows what has happened to them (and that they are even still alive). Cause I assumed that the Deimos situation is new and fresh out of statis Loid should not be aware of that.
It's going to lead to absolutely wild situations in the future. We're talking about the massive dangling, tasty lure of potentially snuffing out the Orokin Empire before it can ever form.
Imagine being the option of elimating the cause of thousands of years of suffering by The Indifference, moments in time you can alter and the Orokin are no more. All in exchange of X. It also means Albrecht is in prime position to be a huge threat, because alterations could vastly alter history if he's threatened in one of his mad schemes.
@@RicochetForce Yeah but in undoing the Orokin it would undo Albrecht and if we know one thing about the Orokin, it is that they are they are first and foremost egoists.
So Albrecht would never undo himself to solve his problem. Also I just don’t think that Eternalism can go that far.
What I assume is that Warframe 1999 will actually be more of a prequel to Warframes story while also showing us more of Warframes concept of time and space.
I mean how did Albrecht know about the Tenno while Loid didn’t? Did he maybe also travel into the future. Or did he just turn the cube of Eternalism so exactly what he wanted would happen.
@@JodyrJoestar See how juicy this gets? He can drop that on us if we threaten to kill him. We DON"T know if he hasn't already altered things to give us our current advantages, or isn't already using future tech without us knowing.
Im very happy you growing So Fast....I told you will Grow As Such....
Happy to see you starting to get Sponsors...Wish you Best!
Thank you so much!!!! I'm glad the community is enjoying the content! I've got plenty more on the way!
As always, another fantastic video. Really put together the quest for me and elevated my love for the lore. Thank you for this!
Thank you!!!! I'm glad you enjoyed it and if it helped you understand... well then my job is done!
It's also worth noting that only Entrati feared the indifference. The rest of the Orokin didn't even believe it existed, and only saw the Void as a resource to be exploited.
Did they not believe or not want to believe? I find it odd that Twins were explicitly banned from Orokin society, like the twin grineer queens. What would make them fear beings that looked alike?
@@TheDsIEGE If you could create an endless supply of fleshbags and just bodyhop from one to the next, I could see the Orokin would grant far greater status to someone who chose unique bodies with each hop. From clones it's not hard to draw a line to twins, etc.
I fail to see the relevance to this topic though. The Orokin were immensely arrogant, believing they were the kings of all creation. I can completely see them ignoring the potential threat of the indifference when a single scientist, who barely escaped with his life due to a failed experiment, is the only one yelling about it. Hell, Entrati himself wasn't sure it wasn't him stuck in the wall and that the indifference was the version of him that escaped.
At this moment, my theory is that the Void really was just a empty void of nothing before Albrecht entered it.
But the void reacts strongly to emotion and thought, giving shape, creating.
The man in the wall is a unintentional creation of Albrecht.
As much as our doppelganger is a creation of our Tenno's will and mind.
The man in the wall/the Indifference is not a singular being.
One exists for every sentient being that has ever entered the void.
I will die on the hill that DE needs to stop making quests un-replayable. Veilbreakers intro, This quest, angels and duviri all should be replayable
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. I have three different accounts now just to play the story. I've been through the entirely of the game 3 times now and wow would it just have been easier to replay...
Not sure if this was answered in the quest or not. But what was the deal that the operator made on the zariman and was Wally aware that Albrecht needed them for the vessels in the future?
We still don't know for sure. We know his part of the deal was saving "all of them" but... we still don't know truly what the man in the wall wants from us. Maybe soon.
I quit Warframe 3 years ago and moved to pc from switch and used to love your videos, all this time later I can finally play again thanks to cross save and I'm so glad to see you still making content, I've got a lot to catch up on thank you
39:34 thats seems more like Evangelion to me really. The fact that Shinji's father was willing to sacrifice his own son and wife's clone to achieve his "Scientific discoveries" made me realize how similar to Entrati he is.
Albrech from what it seems is a direct parralel to the wall, one is timid, shy, a coward , while the other is bold, and always prodding. But i think the one similarity betwen them is their indifference.
I keep finding it odd at then end of the quest that our man in the wall and Albercts interacted with each so I'm curious if there's multiple of them the one he encountered and we saw wich is the indifference and the one we've been dealing with the man in the wall .
Sometimes when I go to Quinn he says "I can perceive 2 presence within you do you wanna know who is the real one? ". When possessed, the person is no longer alone in his mind & body like a parasite constantly draining and following him. Everywhere he went Albericht said that he was followed by indifference everytime sinsce they meet, the tenno is followed by him every time everywhere.
Also transference look a lot like demonic possession to me bcs of its properties (taking control of a living organisms like orowyrm, necramech, WARFRAMES etc... like a parasite). An ability inherited from indifference himself, so what if he can do it himself no matter who is the target? I think he can parasite every being that comes into direct contact with him, that means he's inside every one of them since he met them hence why he can take tenno and antrati's shape.
I may be wrong but it makes a lot of sense for a many things if it's true.
Just started the video and already liked cuz I know I'm in for a narrative ride.
I would love to see a video about the major factions(orokin, sentient, tenno, corpus, infested, grineer) about their lore, size population etc. There are already a few videos about this on youtube, but I think your style would be very interesting to watch.
Interesting idea regarding Zariman being a sacrifice, cavia. Never thought of it this way, definitely plausible.
One thing about the entire vid os when you're speaking about the Sanctum, I am pretty sure the grey Indifference themed parts arent built by anyone. As seen in the ending of the quest, it appears by itself and tales pver the lab, meaning it was not an original part of it. It is pretty much The Indifference/The Murmur tranaforming land itself in it's image including the finger imagery, maybe as to mock albrecht not vice versa, and I would argue that it is some sort of inner world of the Indifference.
As for the experiments on people to create the vessels, I could argue that what Albrecht means by 'those who volunteered' is that he did actually cure people normally, but he also offered some of them to undergo the experiments and took those who agreed, of course they still probably didn't onow the end goal, but at least it was done with consent if that turns out to be true. As I understood it wasn't the people themselves who were turned into the giants, but tiny samples of them after being transformed, talen bacl and then exposed to the Grey Strain which then basically were used as STEM Cells.
Though as for what happens to Arthur's consciousness is also a mystery to me. As far as I understand the vessels work differently than warframes, the way I see them is that by being constructed from the 'humanity' of people by taking samples from them and growing them with the Grey Strain and combining that with the Void, they act as sort of conduits and containers, being able to transfer back to the original holder and 'ride alongside them' in their mind as we see Arthur aclnowledge. Then we also see that the eyes are still normal after exiting the vessel for the first time, and only go blank after touchong the Man In The Wall controlled Vessel. So now my question is, could our Tenno have done a macro scale version of Transferrence, and put Arthur's consciousness in the attacking Vessel, overriding Wall-e's control? It's definitelly something we probably won't have an answer for until the 1999 quest.
And as to the question if Albrecht is good or evil... ironically, I thinl in defying the Indifferwnce he has become equal to it himself, a truly morally ambigious True Neutral character, not doing things because they are good or evil, but because he believes it necessary, whether they are good or not, 'The goal justifies the means'.
I wonder if the 'cold indifference' that Albrecht saw in the void was himself. An Orokin, corrupted beyond all semblenence of humanity, indifferent to the suffering it causes by wearing the skins of sacrifices to continue living forever. A process where the Queen's showed they made a game of playing with and breaking the minds of the victim to make way for their own conciousness to takeover.
And when he went into the void, a seemingly innocent empty realm untouched by such evil that shined a new light on how he saw himself. Albrecht seems fundamentally different from other Orokin of his stature, even physically he doesn't share their look and rejects living forever through Kuva. I have to wonder if the void 'other' is the Albrecht that escaped the void and the man in the wall is the original Orokin. Or perhaps some part of the Orokin Albrecht's host still survived and there really was nothing in the void except the two souls stuck together in continuity. The Orokin in the wall, trying to retrieve 'his' missing body part, the body of Albrecht that ran away and left him in the void.
Personally, I feel that Albrecht went into a completely blank void, and ended up tainting that realm by virtue of his existence. All of the sins and emotions that go into creating an Orokin were engraved into a realm that reacts with emotion, and the end result was the Man in the Wall, the embodiment of the indifference Orokin practiced as a matter of course.
@@calebmacenka3132 That is also a good way of seeing it. I feel like the Man in the Wall should be something more than just an Orokin but I think whatever it is, it's reacting to that fundamental sin of what the Orokin are.
@@TheRiiiight I don't think it's just an Orokin, but rather the Void staring not just into Albrecht, but seeing all of the little interactions and cultural norms of the civilization that made the person known as Albrecht Entrati. Albrecht was essentially the representation of Orokin civilization to the Void, and all of the sadism and indifference of that civilization resulted in the creation of the Man in the Wall,
At the end of the day, due to the inherent nature in creating a Orokin, means the murder of a Yuvan. The Orokin, no matter how nice each one may seem, have without hesitation murdered and subsumed at least one person, by their very nature, as expounded upon with Executor Tuvul, states that non-Orokin are not perceived as even remotely approaching the worth of Orokin. A caste and race of amoral misanthropes.
Yes, in the end the orokin are literally the worst types of people, but yet a people that can easily see being produced from such excess at the cost of everyone else around them.
I'm not entirely sure the Zariman Ten-Zero incident was done intentionally by Albrecht, while it's possible he knew it would happen I think it happened largely due to traditional Orokin greed. There's also a possibility that the Man in the Wall caused it as well. I can't shake the thought that the Zariman failing to go to Tau and only the proto-sentients going to Tau was very helpful to his goals.
(it's implied in the Duviri tablets that the sentients existed at the same time as the Zariman and they were only intended to build the gates between Tau and Pluto.)
As for the Vessels. I don't think they are the human experiments but grown from samples of them. though due to the fact that they're just giant warframes there's probably a lot of weird void stuff happening with them like with Excalibur Umbra.
I guess I look at it more like he said, he used ballas warframe design which come from humans so... in my opinion, I think the vessels were actually people at one point made into warfrrames and then grown large with grey strain. I suppose we'll find out for certain in the future, but the fact that he calls it Arthur seems to imply its... well it's arthur, not just some samples of his cells.
Entrati turned himself into a pickle, funniest shit i ever heard
It makes sense for Entrati to have the Orokin send the Zariman into the void. Maybe in an act of desperation he arranged for thousands and thousands of human ‘distractions’ to be flung into the void, hopefully distracting The Man. Which is what happened with the Zariman children.