It works because it uses these assets to focus on upgrades of existing features or of the addition of new ones. It also makes sense in the world of mh to fight the same monsters over different games
That and they take great care into making these bosses “feel” like creatures, kinda like going through a safari and seeing a lion. It’s not just a boss but it is a part of the world and “ecosystem”. It just makes sense that if you’re hunting in the same world, you’ll see a stray rathalos here or two.
@@patyos2 such a good comparison. These are supposed to be "real" animals (as in in the games canon) living in the world, with fleshed out ecology and everything Having something not ever show up in later games because "eh, we've already done that one" makes little sense
If Wilds is in fact still in the New World it would be very odd to not include him seeing as he's a roaming species native to it. Hell he was in Rise of all things.
I think that the unique armor and weapons from each monster play a big part in this. There are just some designes that you love and its cool to see them again.
That's one of the things that annoyed me and hurt some of the urge to play world. Seeing so many of the weapon designs missing (ex. Rathian bowguns are missing) especially when some are quite iconic.
Other kind of recycling would be the shared skeletons within families. Get some matching stances and minor moves. When you learn these moves on a weaker monster, you'll be prepared for harder versions later. Every game's bird wyvern prepares you for Rathian.
A good showcase of that is Alatreon in Monster Hunter World. 90% of the dude's moveset comes straight from the Elders you fought to reach him, with only minor alterations and hitting a lot harder.
@@kokorochacarero8003Yes, but she shares a lot of movesets with many bird wyverns. Notably Rathian and Yian Kut-ku shares a majority of moves (tail whip spin, tail whip backflip, backjump fireball, triple fireball, etc)
It's a similar reason to why people want their favourite Pokemon to be in the next game. They have their favorites, and gives people that sense of familiarity, cementing the Monsters as more than a series of random bosses, but reoccurring characters in the series that people can bond over. Or hate together, that's fun too! +1 for Gammof btw
I feel like a significant part of why the recycling works is due to how the game naturally spaces out monsters, leaving significant gaps between reoccurrences of the same monster, giving you a break from them. Its the same reason why having powered up versions of bosses works so well in many RPG's imo
This is why I wish they hadn't brought Anjanath and Bazel back immediately for Rise. They just didn't feel quite right and weren't nearly as imposing in that game, the next would have been a much better fit and given me that wojak face to see them 2 games later.
I think another thing that makes it work is that the monsters almost transcend being just bosses in a game and have become almost a cast of characters, with people giving them personalitys and nicknames and we all get excited to see the fan favourites for that reason and we get deeply attached to our favourites
I really like the dancing analogy because is sick as hell, and I feel like i’m in a ballroom like “Would you allow me this dance Mr Rathalos” and just breakdance in front of everyone.
I agree. Most hunter have their own favorite boy. "I want your full-set armor and weapon!" and then you fight it over and over again you don't even realize because it's so fun and rewarding.
The thing is monster hunter is a legacy game, if you played 5 games and you find yourself in a completely new combat system with only new monsters ecc you don't get the feeling of "i'm playing mh" much like a fighting game, in these types of game you need some degree of cozyness to enjoy the game
I think the major difference with Souls Like and other, is that you don't enjoy the fight for the same reasons. I love fighting in Monster Hunter, but in Souls I love beating bosses.
Remixed fights like remixed songs. You get to nerd out nostalgically about what you already know, then get excited at what's new and learn how to avoid those attacks, whilst testing new tools in new environments from new games against them. Plus the makeovers are sick, Japanese devs know how to make monsters look iconic. You get the benefits of both old and new.
The term isn't "recycling", its returning. Rathalos is a returning monster, so are many others. Think of it as a fighting game: Ryu or Scorpion aren't recycled when they appear in later games. And it makes contextual sense as well - MH has a simulated ecology, and in their world, certain monsters inhabit many biomes while some monsters are unique to certain unique geographical locations.
@@badasscrusader where did I even come close to implying that? I'm literally just saying that recycling and returning are essentially synonyms, and that also counts in these game related examples.
@@jankbunky4279 yea that's a L for me,I don't know why I replied like that sorry. Recycled and returning have different connotations to them,Recycled is seen as negative and lazy while returning is seen as a good thing and pandering to the fans so while they are basically synonyms they are perceived differently
Why can't we have all of them? Give me all the cute mascot animals back. I want my luck giving swine, my precious and useful owl, the charming duck, and fluffy alpaca
I'm going to disagree here. The reason it works is the first point you touched on - its fun. That's literally it. I have fun fighting Rath in FU, 3U, 4U and GU and there really isn't much different gameplay. It's just a greatly designed combat system meeting challenging enemy ai.
bruh this game is amazing,i thought it will be boring killing monster make armor etc,but damn here im on my 160h playgame in MHW and yes i buy the dlc too,cant wait to go there
I hunted chameleos like 250-300 times in 4u (yes ik for sure bc the hunter notes told me that i did) bc it was my fav to farm great elder gems, MH feels like it never gets boring
I was watching this video for about five minutes, totally enthralled, and I looked down your subscriber count and was absolutely stunned that you didn't even have 10k; this is a very professional and well-made video, and you honestly deserve more attention.
Dude the pacing and comedy of this video was so good, I was expecting it to be from a multi-thousand subscriber channel. Definitely getting a +1 sub, I can't wait to see what you put out next
Keep up the amazing content man, this video is top level quality. I didn’t realise you were a small channel until I actually looked once the video ended.
Besides all your great points, It just makes sense for a monster to behave similarly no matter what game it is in considering how important the ecosystem is to Monster Hunter.
One of the things that was a bit stronger in the older games was the random variation in size, and aggression levels in the monsters, which also helped make repeat fights fun. Sometimes you're expecting a terrible fight against a tough monster, but it's got some low aggression and runs half the hunt, meanwhile a secondary monster who normally is a quick hunt is going off like a rabid honeybadger and getting in the way of your main target. That variability really added a lot to the game for me and my friends, it meant you had to prepare a bit extra because sometimes you'd get one that is buffed up, pissed off, and oh, no, Deviljho also showed up.
I think there are varying levels of quality to bringing old fights back in the same game. There have been cases of monsters getting new moves when you fight them in high rank, g/master rank and their variants where they're successfully recontextualized if not just to job you up for how much you've learned. Fighting high rank pukei for example was done in world in a perfect way where it showed you the difference between the health of a low rank and high rank monster as well as making you respect it a bit more with its increased poison attacks which it now had the time to actually pull off. Sometimes it all feels like busywork which generations was guilty of for a good few fights due to its huge roster, but I love to see a fave get a glow-up.
tbf to early game subspecies I always felt they existed more to introduce the concept rather than the core of what the later game subspecies are supposed to do. Like yeah Blue and normal Kut Ku are basically the same. But then you get stuff like Standard and Black diablos, With the later being a LOT more aggressive and the AI forcing you to think so much faster than the typical fight because if you fight her at the same rhythm as standard diablos she will turn you inside out. Or how Azure Rathalos will spend a lot more time in the air and can punish you a lot more with expanded arial attacks if you don't bring it down to the ground fast/often enough etc. Sure the early subs are broadly the same with maybe another move but I feel like that's the point. So when you do hit the later game subspecies you are both surprised by just how different they behave but also were slightly tipped of by the slightly different move sets of things like the Blue Kut Ku (and it pads the early game runtime....)
Because it's not really recycled content. It's more akin to returning characters in fighting games than copying and pasting an enemy or boss. A lot of work goes into even the returning monsters in each game.
I like being able to see familiar faces when there are such big changes to what is honestly quite a delicate gameplay loop. I really hope Wilds holds on to some familiar faces besides just Rathalos, because a game with 99% new monsters would feel so foreign when combined with an altered gameplay loop.
I first started M.H. through world and I was so enthralled with the legiana fight because it looked cool and they have my favorite roar . I remember it being the moment of no return for me
I beat world base game for the 4th time yesterday, and am getting ready to start the DLC a fourth time today. Didnt use defender gear, Ran longsword the whole way through and gonna continue to do so since I've never done a MHW longsword playthrough. My highrank set was pink rath top 3 pieces, and odo waist and legs. LS of choice was Rathian's, as poison absolutely slaps base game and the damage, affinity and sharpness arent bad either. As for charm, I ran defense until I could get the critical eye charm, then ran that until I got my odo two piece for punishing draw and ran a lvl 3 stamina drain charm. Only fainted like 7 times to hunt monsters, total faints somewhere around 18 for expedition faints. I love this game.
If Wilds has larger outdoors areas like the trailer seems to imply, i think Gammoth could work. Its issue was always that it was too big and slow for where you fight it, a big tundra where Gammoth can build up some real speed could be neat.
I don't framing of the discussion. Sub-species serve multiple purposes besides "recycling content". Capcom has made 481+ monsters. That also share skeleton models between each other to make it easier to design. Which again serves multiple purposes. Sub-Species are a gear check. They're essentially checking your hunting skills or your gear. That's why their shells are harder not just because of difficulty but because Higher Sharpness lets you attack easier and also gives you more damage. So you want to wall off the player before entering the real difficult content like Elder Dragons. They also serve as world building. Even in real life we have sub-species. That alone justifies their existence. But there's other thing you neglected with this aspect of world building. It's how you excuse crazier versions of the same monster. Silver Rathalos is derived from Azure Rathalos. Because of the Blue Scales it meant it couldn't ambush as well from it's color mutation so therefore it had to harden it's scales and be more aggressive to compensate the lack of camouflage. Silver Rathalos is that process done to the extrema and even takes material from the environment to then harden it's scales like metal. But with this is comes a new unique problem of Overheating which makes him more vulnerable on the head when he's charged up.
I heard some people say Gammoth could get a thunder desert subspecies that absorbs the storms lightning like those pangolins in the wilds trailer. Possibly lifting its trunk up to serve as a lightning rod.
It's the skill ceiling. It doesn't matter if something is recycled or not if it feels different every time you play it because you always get better, notice more things and try new tricks. Your first victory against a monster where you barely scraped by is only but a sampler of the whole experience
Personally i think it works because it make sense in the context of monster hunter. Like the world building incorporate the monster not as villainous evil monster but rather part of the ecosystem so it make sense that u can find some monsters in a wide array of habitat. The fight is just like u say similqr to previous instalments with returning monster but the experience is also different since the game handling is unique like in rise its fast paced wire bugs action while in for example 3u its more grounded giving each game its own unique hunting style which also make sense within game lore as well since its said every area has its own special hunting style like the village in rise utilize wirebugs while the one in 3u is the only known village who has hunters that specialize in underwater hunting. Armor and weapon design also makes an impact as a monhun player u want to see what new design they came up with for the reoccuring monsters. So in conclusion Monster Hunter is built so it can utilize recycled content but it can cleverly make those recycled content fresh by adding subtle differentiation in gameplay and enviroment making it work.
To me, Monster Hunter series are like "Boss Fights Simulator" game. Every single Large Wyverns are just boss fights. That's fun to me. I like fighting boss. I think that's why FromSoftGames clicked with me or Hollow Knight clicked with me. The boss fights are fun. I like the challenge. So having to see the same monsters, in the next games with maybe new moves or update or even evolves, is challenging each time, because of the circumstances you are in. Like gears or environments.
The thing about MonHun is the continuity. The game world is the same, what changes is the area of the world it takes place in. In CoD, people loved the grizzled veterans such as Price, Soap and Makarov. Infinity Ward killed off some of those characters and modified the look of others, and got some harsh feedback for it. A MonHun doesn't feel the same without Rathalos and Rathian. The hunters are the main characters of the game, and at the same time they are not. The devs have been good enough characterizing the wilds that the main characters are the monsters for many. Thus why we are all happy when old acquaintances make an appearance in newer titles.
Sub species before 3rd gen used to be upgrade version of the base monster. After 3rd gen they add bit move set or differnt patter to make it different from the base monster. I find this topic kinda interesting how they use to old content but still fresh on hand which some other game feel its just a same experience. i do feel like nostalgia when fighting the same old monster from new gen, i know their weaknesses, i know their movement would be like even it will have bits improvement for new one, and the difference may be the place where its gonna be on the hunt like where is they gonna go next or different atmosphere and terrain used to hunt.
In some twisted way, I think Monster Hunter is basically just like what Capcom tried with Rival Schools in 1998. The Japanese version had a huge story mode, where you made a own character and basically played through a visual novel style game with choices and occasional Street Fighter like fights. Monster Hunter at its base is just that. Monster Hunter takes the idea of NPCs and lets the players duel them, a Action/Adventure/Versus hybrid of sorts. You get stronger with each Monster you defeat thinking you know all its moves only to face a variant of it and find out that you totally have no clues about its moves and get destroyed by it. The real "fun" begins when there is a Monster that does stuff to outright wreck your face so hard... that you double check the added skills of Viper Tobi-Kadachi, stacking up on Poison and Stun immunity and proceed to wreck him despite him being so fast and you basically being a snail. Once you wreck a Monster that wrecked you multiple times... that feeling is what makes you keep come back.
Astalos is the fight that convinced me to get into “Old World” Monster Hunter games. He just seemed so cool! Luckily I got GU on sale as well, just in case I didn’t like that style of gameplay… *killed or captured every Deviant plus the other GU exclusives *killed every unique monster (ie. not in a modern game) in 3U *5 monsters into my 4U exclusive goal Of course when Astalos got revealed for Sunbreak, I cried because it meant I could fight him with my modern main weapon. (I ended up using Hammer in GU because LS wasn’t comfortable.)
It's interesting that you brought up specifically Demon Firesage, because I actually started modding Dark Souls before I ever touched a monhun game and Firesage is one of the enemies that I made a point of messing with for exactly the points you bring up: he's not different enough to be interesting, he doesn't drop anything useful, and he's JUST recycled content placed as a roadblock (well he has some lore but that's it) So I changed up his magic attacks and made the item he drops more useful (it can be used to cast Pyromancies now). Also, uhh... Demon Firesage is secretly part of the Liar Cabal in DS1. His attacks deal Magic Damage, and his Defenses are the same as Stray's, so he's actually WEAK to fire damage.
Me personally? I really hope that the great Jagras makes it in. I know it's not exactly the most challenging monster, but I love the ecology more than a lot of the other monsters in the mhw roster, and I actually think it's kind of cute. Fat mama iguana is an easy sell imo
Recycled content is not a bad thing inherently, you guys are all forgetting that gold and silver, web of shadows, vice city, san andreas all reused a ton of assets, and those are incredibly loved games. We don't need a brand new engine with 100% new content every time. Recycled assets and content allow people to make more games instead of constantly having to reinvent the wheel. It literally allows you to have more content because if it was good enough for the previous games it will probably be good enough for future games as long as we can upscale and refine them as we go.
It works because it works the same as fighting games. You keep the old ones, you improve it and add things (Mainline). You can remove some things too but you must compensate with new things, be experimental (Portable).
I hope Wilds returns with huge monster fights. Loved to do them when I needed a break of field kills. The big crab from freedom unite hasnt been in a game in a while
2:57 Where you able to carve? I remember sometimes the monster falls so far into the lava pool, that you cant reach it anymore. Also Rathalos and Tigrex in Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker was great!
put simply because skill is transfered between games, if u fought a ratian for 4 games in a row u know her moveset, BUT each and every installment RISE the skill ceiling, every weapon or monster becomes harder to master so every time u acquire some gears u know it was all earned and possibly the most important thing, CHARACTER, monster hunter unlike ds or any other game with boss rush doesn't put the character of the monster in the narrative (mostly) like in darksouls where a boss is memorable because the fight is good and u are killing that guy that is important for story or in lore is a mega hero, but in mh the way the monster interact with the ecosystem, the player, their design and moveset create a kind of personality to the monster that makes u feel attached to it, some them are despised, like the plesioth that makes me angry simply existing, to the rathalos that i enjoy to punish when he is on the ground and make me pissed when i continue to fly away or attack from above, to the nergigante that became my litteral rival, u kinda develop a relationship with every monster that is kept intact throught the various games or that avolve itself over time, but it is never a "wait this doesn't feel like a ____" the goddamn black diablos make me afraid since mhf2 and even tho i'm a better hunter now i still sometimes am reminded of when as a 9yo i was pissing my pants when she went under the sand
Keep + Switchable moves from Rise + Environment from World + Mount from Rise + Armour skills system from Rise + Armour augmentation from Rise + Weapon unique skills from World + Weapon augmentation from World + Monster Riding (World) + Turf War (World) + FOOD (World) Trash - Clutch Claw - Wire bug - Wounding - Monster Riding (Rise) - THOSE DAMN SPIRIT BIRDS!! (Rise) Basically, enhancing the gameplay itself and ditch all the gimmicks that interfere with playing the game the way people wanna play.
this might sound dumb and probably doesnt apply to everyone but i think it works because looking at monsters in mh is like looking at animals irl. you look outside and see a deer and youll probably think to yourself "oh cool its a deer". same thing with the rathalos. out in the ancestral steppe kr something and you see a ratholos. first thing you think is "oh cool its a rathalos". also gore/shagaru magala + crimson valstrax in mh6 would be cool
I hope we get many complete new Monsters AND really old ones. I would love to see gypceros, kutku, agnaktor, plesioth, gravios and all the drome variants again. I dont need zinogre, kuluyaku and pukei pukei again.
Another aspect of this is the design of the monster fights themselves. In Mezzamine's really good video "How To Design A Monster Hunter Boss" one thing they discuss is how monsters change throughout the fight: - how the fight changes environments (monster moving from area to area, or sometimes effecting the environment directly with attacks and such) - the various states the monster moves between (normal, enraged, exhausted) - special monster-specific states (different states with different benefits that're shifted between, or a powered-up state that disabled somehow) - how partbreaks interact with the fight as well as staggers or mounts. - how all of these things influence other things such as how they fight and their moves, how the monster behaves, how they set the pacing for the fight, how they shift the dynamic of the fight, what lessons they teach the player about the game, etc. Since the gameplay loop sees various instances of the player fighting the same monster multiple times, monsters were designed to be fought many times over so the fights are very dynamic and have a lot going on for you to sink your teeth into. When you invest that time into learning and feeling that dance like it's second nature and you can feel the mastery developing as you learn, and that monster is cool and fun to fight, it's hard not to love them. These plus all you mentioned about the hunter's capabilities all are factors that make monsters work well with being recycled. Going back to Dark Souls (I've only played Elden Ring so I'll do my best), these fights are designed to be fought and won once in a playthrough, to be dynamic and deep enough for you to have a lot to learn to even beat them once. That mastery comes not by fighting a monster over and over for armor, but by bashing your skull into this brick wall of a boss over and over again to even beat them just once (Monster Hunter has fights like this too, but Dark Souls is known for it). It works wonderfully for the kind of game it is, however they weren't designed to be super replayable so it's a bit less condusive to being recycled.
I think the main reason, at least for me, is that I don't feel like the opportunity to have more new monsters was dropped in favor of reusing monsters.
The monsters might be the same, and thier moveset to a bystander might seem very similar But they end up playing and being balanced differently enough it feels like a new fight
Personal i do think the Subspecies and such are underrated and yes there true it is recycled content but at the same time they did improve older monsters and such like if we get blue yian kut kun in wilds it going get some revamped i mean some 5th gen is been really focusing on updated monsters i mean Iceborne Fatalis Alone has the it basically more then enough to be different between a Rehash and Full Remaster And I think the monster vartion and the hazard quests in Sunbreak Alone can be a Clue of All Future returning monsters and there variation as more of a Remastered then Rehash
PS Also Most Monster Variants like Subspecies Appears in G Rank/Master Rank Only So there not As Cloney in my opinion i consider them as The monster trying to counter hunter or the location it normally doesn't go to
when you mentioned the "no wirebug" video I thaught of that MH water combat fans when no more water combat: NNOOOOOOOO, GIVE IT BACK !!!!! MH wirebug combat fans when no wirebugs: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, GIVE ME THE WIRE !!!!! ... that is fcking true !
yea i dont mind variants of monsters because that means sometimes you get cooler weapons or armor, but my problem with Sunbreak is that every wave of DLC had so many variants of the same exact monsters the game already had and only added like 3 or 4 new or returning monsters from past games. didnt feel like i got my money's worth with the expansion compared to Iceborne
For the most part I always saw subspecies as the “elite” version of monsters and that’s kinda what they are. You will never see a Black Diablos or Azure Rathalos in low rank. Also Smelter Demon from Dark Souls 2 and its blue version. I think Monster Hunter seems better at reusing assets than Dark Souls cause their changes vary more from a simple color change to something more like Pokémon regional forms where it’s practically a different monster entirely. And it might seem too soon but I already miss Vaal Hazak and Namielle, I hope at least one of them make it in Wilds.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
It works because it uses these assets to focus on upgrades of existing features or of the addition of new ones. It also makes sense in the world of mh to fight the same monsters over different games
This is true. Half the joy of a new MH is genuinely seeing monsters you know in sequencially higher quality
That and they take great care into making these bosses “feel” like creatures, kinda like going through a safari and seeing a lion. It’s not just a boss but it is a part of the world and “ecosystem”. It just makes sense that if you’re hunting in the same world, you’ll see a stray rathalos here or two.
It’s like making a Hunting simulator game and not putting animals from previous games because they were in previous games
@@patyos2 such a good comparison. These are supposed to be "real" animals (as in in the games canon) living in the world, with fleshed out ecology and everything
Having something not ever show up in later games because "eh, we've already done that one" makes little sense
@@patyos2TBF though, world took place on the other side of the planet, it’s weird how many returning monsters there were
I want bazelgeuse to return in wilds. Because I want others to suffer
Also his armor set looks so sick
Dont forget the music
Bazel looks like it would suit wilds a lot. Chasing you while you're on your new ride screaming for peace
I want KHEZU😌
If Wilds is in fact still in the New World it would be very odd to not include him seeing as he's a roaming species native to it. Hell he was in Rise of all things.
Yes Bazel and Devil Jho
I pray that Odogaron comes back, he's such a fun fight and his loot is badass.
His armor is very cool!
Lunagaron is way more fun to fight doe
Lunagaron is indeed cooler his armor sucks tho looks weird
You've obviously never seen the mixed sets, also I didn't say looks, i said he's way more fun to actually fight
It's really a shame, because Odogaron could work in the Japanese setting of Rise.
I think that the unique armor and weapons from each monster play a big part in this. There are just some designes that you love and its cool to see them again.
That's one of the things that annoyed me and hurt some of the urge to play world. Seeing so many of the weapon designs missing (ex. Rathian bowguns are missing) especially when some are quite iconic.
I pray for the day elder caedus comes back (he never will) the armor set is unparalleled to this day
@@dracotoybro, they just gotta make an exchange system like 4, its literally so simple, why won't they do it?
@@stotgunvsface5092they dropped the ball HARD with the weapon designs in world
Other kind of recycling would be the shared skeletons within families. Get some matching stances and minor moves. When you learn these moves on a weaker monster, you'll be prepared for harder versions later.
Every game's bird wyvern prepares you for Rathian.
A good showcase of that is Alatreon in Monster Hunter World.
90% of the dude's moveset comes straight from the Elders you fought to reach him, with only minor alterations and hitting a lot harder.
But Rathian is a Flying Wyvern tho
And Rathian prepares you for Rathalos, Diablos, Astalos, etc
@@kokorochacarero8003Yes, but she shares a lot of movesets with many bird wyverns. Notably Rathian and Yian Kut-ku shares a majority of moves (tail whip spin, tail whip backflip, backjump fireball, triple fireball, etc)
Oh, I thought you were talking about the raptors. I was like “how is Great Baggi preparing you for Rathian?”
It's a similar reason to why people want their favourite Pokemon to be in the next game. They have their favorites, and gives people that sense of familiarity, cementing the Monsters as more than a series of random bosses, but reoccurring characters in the series that people can bond over. Or hate together, that's fun too!
+1 for Gammof btw
+1 for Gammoth
+1 for Gammoth
I feel like a significant part of why the recycling works is due to how the game naturally spaces out monsters, leaving significant gaps between reoccurrences of the same monster, giving you a break from them.
Its the same reason why having powered up versions of bosses works so well in many RPG's imo
I doubt we will ever get a break from Zinogre
@@athos9293or Rathalos
flagship thing @@athos9293
This is why I wish they hadn't brought Anjanath and Bazel back immediately for Rise. They just didn't feel quite right and weren't nearly as imposing in that game, the next would have been a much better fit and given me that wojak face to see them 2 games later.
@joshaboi7467 yea while i love the bagel he gets styled on by the faster pace that rise gives and anjanath never stood a chance
I think another thing that makes it work is that the monsters almost transcend being just bosses in a game and have become almost a cast of characters, with people giving them personalitys and nicknames and we all get excited to see the fan favourites for that reason and we get deeply attached to our favourites
P I C K L E
Steve the seregios
Plesioth. Those hips don't lie and it transcends language, time, cultures, and dimensions
Fiery Pink Flail Chicken. Aka the Best Bird Wyvern.
@MercuryAlphaInc we welcome back the first wall of old gen. Welcome back you magnificent derp bird.
I really like the dancing analogy because is sick as hell, and I feel like i’m in a ballroom like “Would you allow me this dance Mr Rathalos” and just breakdance in front of everyone.
I agree. Most hunter have their own favorite boy. "I want your full-set armor and weapon!" and then you fight it over and over again you don't even realize because it's so fun and rewarding.
I really want to see Zamtrios in the newer Monster Hunter games. I always liked his cool ice armor and laughed at his pufferfish like form.
I hope Great Maccao returns for wilds!
YES, HIS MUSIC IN GENERATIONS WAS SICK
4:45 I love how much sense this seemingly nonsensical sentence makes to veteran players who've experienced this.
The thing is monster hunter is a legacy game, if you played 5 games and you find yourself in a completely new combat system with only new monsters ecc you don't get the feeling of "i'm playing mh" much like a fighting game, in these types of game you need some degree of cozyness to enjoy the game
If Gammy ever returns I definitely want to see the tiny gammoth quest again, that shit was the funniest version of the “large monster is now small”
This is a great analysis. The more I play MH, the more I appreciate the truly Genius dev team.
Metal Gear + Monster Hunter fan = 🐐
I think the major difference with Souls Like and other, is that you don't enjoy the fight for the same reasons. I love fighting in Monster Hunter, but in Souls I love beating bosses.
Remixed fights like remixed songs. You get to nerd out nostalgically about what you already know, then get excited at what's new and learn how to avoid those attacks, whilst testing new tools in new environments from new games against them. Plus the makeovers are sick, Japanese devs know how to make monsters look iconic. You get the benefits of both old and new.
The term isn't "recycling", its returning. Rathalos is a returning monster, so are many others.
Think of it as a fighting game: Ryu or Scorpion aren't recycled when they appear in later games.
And it makes contextual sense as well - MH has a simulated ecology, and in their world, certain monsters inhabit many biomes while some monsters are unique to certain unique geographical locations.
Yeah as usual im not a fan of the YT way of title videos but it gets people's attention.
Except in these cases, returning absolutely is a form of recycling lol.
@@jankbunky4279 and it isn't when fighting games do the same thing?
@@badasscrusader where did I even come close to implying that? I'm literally just saying that recycling and returning are essentially synonyms, and that also counts in these game related examples.
@@jankbunky4279 yea that's a L for me,I don't know why I replied like that sorry.
Recycled and returning have different connotations to them,Recycled is seen as negative and lazy while returning is seen as a good thing and pandering to the fans so while they are basically synonyms they are perceived differently
Forget about recycled monsters. I want my precious boy Poogie back !!! Rise and Sunbreak did me wrong. Where's my precious Poogie?!
maybe an unpopular opinion: but Moofy is better.
Poogie is still really gud tho.
Maybe an unpopular opinion: but goocoos are better.
Moofy is still really gud tho.
@@Ausar0Moofy is pretty amazing. But I do want Poogie back.
@@johnathanrhoades7751I want them both back.
Why can't we have all of them? Give me all the cute mascot animals back. I want my luck giving swine, my precious and useful owl, the charming duck, and fluffy alpaca
I'm going to disagree here. The reason it works is the first point you touched on - its fun. That's literally it.
I have fun fighting Rath in FU, 3U, 4U and GU and there really isn't much different gameplay. It's just a greatly designed combat system meeting challenging enemy ai.
I seriously thought that this was a video from a million subcriber channel. You are so underrated!
There's no way you've only made two videos and have it be this enjoyable.
Keep it up man, subbed
proud to be your 400th subscriber, you've done a hell of a job going into detail about what makes mon hun fun. i look forward to more content from ya.
bruh this game is amazing,i thought it will be boring killing monster make armor etc,but damn here im on my 160h playgame in MHW and yes i buy the dlc too,cant wait to go there
Crazy how this has the production quality of a veteran TH-camr then I check and this is the first video. Incredible.
In Monster Hunter you are the Monster Hunting an endangered species.
I hunted chameleos like 250-300 times in 4u (yes ik for sure bc the hunter notes told me that i did) bc it was my fav to farm great elder gems, MH feels like it never gets boring
I was watching this video for about five minutes, totally enthralled, and I looked down your subscriber count and was absolutely stunned that you didn't even have 10k; this is a very professional and well-made video, and you honestly deserve more attention.
This is technically his first video
Dude the pacing and comedy of this video was so good, I was expecting it to be from a multi-thousand subscriber channel. Definitely getting a +1 sub, I can't wait to see what you put out next
Keep up the amazing content man, this video is top level quality. I didn’t realise you were a small channel until I actually looked once the video ended.
idk how you only have 700 subs, super underrated channel
Besides all your great points, It just makes sense for a monster to behave similarly no matter what game it is in considering how important the ecosystem is to Monster Hunter.
One of the things that was a bit stronger in the older games was the random variation in size, and aggression levels in the monsters, which also helped make repeat fights fun. Sometimes you're expecting a terrible fight against a tough monster, but it's got some low aggression and runs half the hunt, meanwhile a secondary monster who normally is a quick hunt is going off like a rabid honeybadger and getting in the way of your main target.
That variability really added a lot to the game for me and my friends, it meant you had to prepare a bit extra because sometimes you'd get one that is buffed up, pissed off, and oh, no, Deviljho also showed up.
Youre the first person I've ever heard say "I love uragon" and it makes me happy because I love when unpopular monsters get love.
yo this is an amazing video! keep up the great work man
This is an amazing introduction as a first video. Great job! 👍👍
What a cool video. That final part tho. I guess im not the only one wanting the popodrome comeback
I think there are varying levels of quality to bringing old fights back in the same game. There have been cases of monsters getting new moves when you fight them in high rank, g/master rank and their variants where they're successfully recontextualized if not just to job you up for how much you've learned. Fighting high rank pukei for example was done in world in a perfect way where it showed you the difference between the health of a low rank and high rank monster as well as making you respect it a bit more with its increased poison attacks which it now had the time to actually pull off.
Sometimes it all feels like busywork which generations was guilty of for a good few fights due to its huge roster, but I love to see a fave get a glow-up.
tbf to early game subspecies I always felt they existed more to introduce the concept rather than the core of what the later game subspecies are supposed to do. Like yeah Blue and normal Kut Ku are basically the same. But then you get stuff like Standard and Black diablos, With the later being a LOT more aggressive and the AI forcing you to think so much faster than the typical fight because if you fight her at the same rhythm as standard diablos she will turn you inside out. Or how Azure Rathalos will spend a lot more time in the air and can punish you a lot more with expanded arial attacks if you don't bring it down to the ground fast/often enough etc.
Sure the early subs are broadly the same with maybe another move but I feel like that's the point. So when you do hit the later game subspecies you are both surprised by just how different they behave but also were slightly tipped of by the slightly different move sets of things like the Blue Kut Ku (and it pads the early game runtime....)
I disagree a subspecies should be like azure rath as in taking a aspect of the fight and making it the focus and forcing you to deal with it
This is a well edited, entertaining watch. Thank you 👍🏻
Because it's not really recycled content. It's more akin to returning characters in fighting games than copying and pasting an enemy or boss. A lot of work goes into even the returning monsters in each game.
fighting the same cool monster again with a different weapon every couple of years turns out to be pretty fun actually
I like being able to see familiar faces when there are such big changes to what is honestly quite a delicate gameplay loop. I really hope Wilds holds on to some familiar faces besides just Rathalos, because a game with 99% new monsters would feel so foreign when combined with an altered gameplay loop.
I first started M.H. through world and I was so enthralled with the legiana fight because it looked cool and they have my favorite roar . I remember it being the moment of no return for me
I beat world base game for the 4th time yesterday, and am getting ready to start the DLC a fourth time today. Didnt use defender gear, Ran longsword the whole way through and gonna continue to do so since I've never done a MHW longsword playthrough. My highrank set was pink rath top 3 pieces, and odo waist and legs. LS of choice was Rathian's, as poison absolutely slaps base game and the damage, affinity and sharpness arent bad either. As for charm, I ran defense until I could get the critical eye charm, then ran that until I got my odo two piece for punishing draw and ran a lvl 3 stamina drain charm. Only fainted like 7 times to hunt monsters, total faints somewhere around 18 for expedition faints. I love this game.
K
If Wilds has larger outdoors areas like the trailer seems to imply, i think Gammoth could work. Its issue was always that it was too big and slow for where you fight it, a big tundra where Gammoth can build up some real speed could be neat.
i love it when the monster comes back with a new move much like the player does too so its like a rematch
I don't framing of the discussion. Sub-species serve multiple purposes besides "recycling content". Capcom has made 481+ monsters. That also share skeleton models between each other to make it easier to design. Which again serves multiple purposes.
Sub-Species are a gear check. They're essentially checking your hunting skills or your gear. That's why their shells are harder not just because of difficulty but because Higher Sharpness lets you attack easier and also gives you more damage. So you want to wall off the player before entering the real difficult content like Elder Dragons.
They also serve as world building. Even in real life we have sub-species. That alone justifies their existence. But there's other thing you neglected with this aspect of world building. It's how you excuse crazier versions of the same monster. Silver Rathalos is derived from Azure Rathalos. Because of the Blue Scales it meant it couldn't ambush as well from it's color mutation so therefore it had to harden it's scales and be more aggressive to compensate the lack of camouflage. Silver Rathalos is that process done to the extrema and even takes material from the environment to then harden it's scales like metal. But with this is comes a new unique problem of Overheating which makes him more vulnerable on the head when he's charged up.
You said it all
The clip of gen 1/2 rathalos flying like a dumba$$ outside the arena had me rolling, too relatable xD
Man great video quality continue like this (just remember me that i was here at the start when you’ll be famous)
I heard some people say Gammoth could get a thunder desert subspecies that absorbs the storms lightning like those pangolins in the wilds trailer. Possibly lifting its trunk up to serve as a lightning rod.
Monoblos too with his horn
It's the skill ceiling. It doesn't matter if something is recycled or not if it feels different every time you play it because you always get better, notice more things and try new tricks. Your first victory against a monster where you barely scraped by is only but a sampler of the whole experience
A gunlance enthusiast AND Gammoth lover? Oh yeah, you're getting a sub from me.
This video would be perfect if it didn’t have to shit on other games for no reason
really good stuff, keep it up!
Personally i think it works because it make sense in the context of monster hunter. Like the world building incorporate the monster not as villainous evil monster but rather part of the ecosystem so it make sense that u can find some monsters in a wide array of habitat.
The fight is just like u say similqr to previous instalments with returning monster but the experience is also different since the game handling is unique like in rise its fast paced wire bugs action while in for example 3u its more grounded giving each game its own unique hunting style which also make sense within game lore as well since its said every area has its own special hunting style like the village in rise utilize wirebugs while the one in 3u is the only known village who has hunters that specialize in underwater hunting.
Armor and weapon design also makes an impact as a monhun player u want to see what new design they came up with for the reoccuring monsters.
So in conclusion Monster Hunter is built so it can utilize recycled content but it can cleverly make those recycled content fresh by adding subtle differentiation in gameplay and enviroment making it work.
To me, Monster Hunter series are like "Boss Fights Simulator" game. Every single Large Wyverns are just boss fights. That's fun to me. I like fighting boss. I think that's why FromSoftGames clicked with me or Hollow Knight clicked with me. The boss fights are fun. I like the challenge. So having to see the same monsters, in the next games with maybe new moves or update or even evolves, is challenging each time, because of the circumstances you are in. Like gears or environments.
The thing about MonHun is the continuity.
The game world is the same, what changes is the area of the world it takes place in.
In CoD, people loved the grizzled veterans such as Price, Soap and Makarov. Infinity Ward killed off some of those characters and modified the look of others, and got some harsh feedback for it.
A MonHun doesn't feel the same without Rathalos and Rathian.
The hunters are the main characters of the game, and at the same time they are not. The devs have been good enough characterizing the wilds that the main characters are the monsters for many. Thus why we are all happy when old acquaintances make an appearance in newer titles.
Gammoth is perfect for a proper raid, in the snowy mountains.
Sub species before 3rd gen used to be upgrade version of the base monster. After 3rd gen they add bit move set or differnt patter to make it different from the base monster. I find this topic kinda interesting how they use to old content but still fresh on hand which some other game feel its just a same experience.
i do feel like nostalgia when fighting the same old monster from new gen, i know their weaknesses, i know their movement would be like even it will have bits improvement for new one, and the difference may be the place where its gonna be on the hunt like where is they gonna go next or different atmosphere and terrain used to hunt.
Cool vid and nice editing - luv the style
MH series is like the Yakuza series... Their game is just so good, they can recycle content and sometimes reused assets.. and players still loves them
I'm glad uragann has at least 1 fan.
In some twisted way, I think Monster Hunter is basically just like what Capcom tried with Rival Schools in 1998. The Japanese version had a huge story mode, where you made a own character and basically played through a visual novel style game with choices and occasional Street Fighter like fights.
Monster Hunter at its base is just that.
Monster Hunter takes the idea of NPCs and lets the players duel them, a Action/Adventure/Versus hybrid of sorts. You get stronger with each Monster you defeat thinking you know all its moves only to face a variant of it and find out that you totally have no clues about its moves and get destroyed by it. The real "fun" begins when there is a Monster that does stuff to outright wreck your face so hard... that you double check the added skills of Viper Tobi-Kadachi, stacking up on Poison and Stun immunity and proceed to wreck him despite him being so fast and you basically being a snail. Once you wreck a Monster that wrecked you multiple times... that feeling is what makes you keep come back.
Astalos is the fight that convinced me to get into “Old World” Monster Hunter games. He just seemed so cool! Luckily I got GU on sale as well, just in case I didn’t like that style of gameplay…
*killed or captured every Deviant plus the other GU exclusives
*killed every unique monster (ie. not in a modern game) in 3U
*5 monsters into my 4U exclusive goal
Of course when Astalos got revealed for Sunbreak, I cried because it meant I could fight him with my modern main weapon. (I ended up using Hammer in GU because LS wasn’t comfortable.)
Holding out hope for some Great Jaggi in Wilds, especially since it looks like they've really polished up pack fights.
It's interesting that you brought up specifically Demon Firesage, because I actually started modding Dark Souls before I ever touched a monhun game and Firesage is one of the enemies that I made a point of messing with for exactly the points you bring up:
he's not different enough to be interesting, he doesn't drop anything useful, and he's JUST recycled content placed as a roadblock (well he has some lore but that's it)
So I changed up his magic attacks and made the item he drops more useful (it can be used to cast Pyromancies now).
Also, uhh... Demon Firesage is secretly part of the Liar Cabal in DS1. His attacks deal Magic Damage, and his Defenses are the same as Stray's, so he's actually WEAK to fire damage.
I love that the monster I hunted as a child is still in the game I play now
Some people will complain about the Raths returning every game but there is something special about seeing an old friend in a new world
Me personally? I really hope that the great Jagras makes it in. I know it's not exactly the most challenging monster, but I love the ecology more than a lot of the other monsters in the mhw roster, and I actually think it's kind of cute. Fat mama iguana is an easy sell imo
Recycled content is not a bad thing inherently, you guys are all forgetting that gold and silver, web of shadows, vice city, san andreas all reused a ton of assets, and those are incredibly loved games.
We don't need a brand new engine with 100% new content every time.
Recycled assets and content allow people to make more games instead of constantly having to reinvent the wheel. It literally allows you to have more content because if it was good enough for the previous games it will probably be good enough for future games as long as we can upscale and refine them as we go.
Only a couple minutes in and I can already tell this is a great video with a well written script. Insant subscribe
Keep it up ❤
Seeing what monsters return in new games is like a smash bros reveal
Underrated video, also cool topic to discuss!
It works because it works the same as fighting games.
You keep the old ones, you improve it and add things (Mainline). You can remove some things too but you must compensate with new things, be experimental (Portable).
I hope Wilds returns with huge monster fights. Loved to do them when I needed a break of field kills. The big crab from freedom unite hasnt been in a game in a while
2:57 Where you able to carve? I remember sometimes the monster falls so far into the lava pool, that you cant reach it anymore.
Also Rathalos and Tigrex in Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker was great!
put simply because skill is transfered between games, if u fought a ratian for 4 games in a row u know her moveset, BUT each and every installment RISE the skill ceiling, every weapon or monster becomes harder to master so every time u acquire some gears u know it was all earned and possibly the most important thing, CHARACTER, monster hunter unlike ds or any other game with boss rush doesn't put the character of the monster in the narrative (mostly) like in darksouls where a boss is memorable because the fight is good and u are killing that guy that is important for story or in lore is a mega hero, but in mh the way the monster interact with the ecosystem, the player, their design and moveset create a kind of personality to the monster that makes u feel attached to it, some them are despised, like the plesioth that makes me angry simply existing, to the rathalos that i enjoy to punish when he is on the ground and make me pissed when i continue to fly away or attack from above, to the nergigante that became my litteral rival, u kinda develop a relationship with every monster that is kept intact throught the various games or that avolve itself over time, but it is never a "wait this doesn't feel like a ____" the goddamn black diablos make me afraid since mhf2 and even tho i'm a better hunter now i still sometimes am reminded of when as a 9yo i was pissing my pants when she went under the sand
Keep
+ Switchable moves from Rise
+ Environment from World
+ Mount from Rise
+ Armour skills system from Rise
+ Armour augmentation from Rise
+ Weapon unique skills from World
+ Weapon augmentation from World
+ Monster Riding (World)
+ Turf War (World)
+ FOOD (World)
Trash
- Clutch Claw
- Wire bug
- Wounding
- Monster Riding (Rise)
- THOSE DAMN SPIRIT BIRDS!! (Rise)
Basically, enhancing the gameplay itself and ditch all the gimmicks that interfere with playing the game the way people wanna play.
I see monster hunter i like.
Next video could be : why do dark souls players love monster hunter.
Why do monster hunter players love dark souls
Is this liek your firsr video? I like the style. Hope you make more
I want the old Huntinghorn back. And our lovely mammoth.
this might sound dumb and probably doesnt apply to everyone but i think it works because looking at monsters in mh is like looking at animals irl. you look outside and see a deer and youll probably think to yourself "oh cool its a deer". same thing with the rathalos. out in the ancestral steppe kr something and you see a ratholos. first thing you think is "oh cool its a rathalos".
also gore/shagaru magala + crimson valstrax in mh6 would be cool
Oh yeah one thing about keep getting excited for Rathy existence, his sleek MR armor which has never return
Rise up fellow Gammoth lovers
When you fight Pickle in old world and then fight him in new world...... 😱
I hope we get many complete new Monsters AND really old ones. I would love to see gypceros, kutku, agnaktor, plesioth, gravios and all the drome variants again.
I dont need zinogre, kuluyaku and pukei pukei again.
Another aspect of this is the design of the monster fights themselves. In Mezzamine's really good video "How To Design A Monster Hunter Boss" one thing they discuss is how monsters change throughout the fight:
- how the fight changes environments (monster moving from area to area, or sometimes effecting the environment directly with attacks and such)
- the various states the monster moves between (normal, enraged, exhausted)
- special monster-specific states (different states with different benefits that're shifted between, or a powered-up state that disabled somehow)
- how partbreaks interact with the fight as well as staggers or mounts.
- how all of these things influence other things such as how they fight and their moves, how the monster behaves, how they set the pacing for the fight, how they shift the dynamic of the fight, what lessons they teach the player about the game, etc.
Since the gameplay loop sees various instances of the player fighting the same monster multiple times, monsters were designed to be fought many times over so the fights are very dynamic and have a lot going on for you to sink your teeth into. When you invest that time into learning and feeling that dance like it's second nature and you can feel the mastery developing as you learn, and that monster is cool and fun to fight, it's hard not to love them. These plus all you mentioned about the hunter's capabilities all are factors that make monsters work well with being recycled.
Going back to Dark Souls (I've only played Elden Ring so I'll do my best), these fights are designed to be fought and won once in a playthrough, to be dynamic and deep enough for you to have a lot to learn to even beat them once. That mastery comes not by fighting a monster over and over for armor, but by bashing your skull into this brick wall of a boss over and over again to even beat them just once (Monster Hunter has fights like this too, but Dark Souls is known for it). It works wonderfully for the kind of game it is, however they weren't designed to be super replayable so it's a bit less condusive to being recycled.
Please post more I love this content. Def sub
It also works in the Earth Defense Force series.
asylum demon being a reused boss in elden ring but even more times is so funny
Personally i like it when the large majority of monsters in a new installment is brand new monsters, since it keeps things fresh and interesting
I think the main reason, at least for me, is that I don't feel like the opportunity to have more new monsters was dropped in favor of reusing monsters.
The monsters might be the same, and thier moveset to a bystander might seem very similar
But they end up playing and being balanced differently enough it feels like a new fight
Personal i do think the Subspecies and such are underrated and yes there true it is recycled content but at the same time they did improve older monsters and such like if we get blue yian kut kun in wilds it going get some revamped i mean some 5th gen is been really focusing on updated monsters i mean Iceborne Fatalis Alone has the it basically more then enough to be different between a Rehash and Full Remaster
And I think the monster vartion and the hazard quests in Sunbreak Alone can be a Clue of All Future returning monsters and there variation as more of a Remastered then Rehash
PS Also Most Monster Variants like Subspecies Appears in G Rank/Master Rank Only So there not As Cloney in my opinion i consider them as The monster trying to counter hunter or the location it normally doesn't go to
when you mentioned the "no wirebug" video
I thaught of that
MH water combat fans when no more water combat: NNOOOOOOOO, GIVE IT BACK !!!!!
MH wirebug combat fans when no wirebugs: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, GIVE ME THE WIRE !!!!!
... that is fcking true !
i believe in gammoth supremacy
yea i dont mind variants of monsters because that means sometimes you get cooler weapons or armor, but my problem with Sunbreak is that every wave of DLC had so many variants of the same exact monsters the game already had and only added like 3 or 4 new or returning monsters from past games. didnt feel like i got my money's worth with the expansion compared to Iceborne
For the most part I always saw subspecies as the “elite” version of monsters and that’s kinda what they are. You will never see a Black Diablos or Azure Rathalos in low rank. Also Smelter Demon from Dark Souls 2 and its blue version. I think Monster Hunter seems better at reusing assets than Dark Souls cause their changes vary more from a simple color change to something more like Pokémon regional forms where it’s practically a different monster entirely. And it might seem too soon but I already miss Vaal Hazak and Namielle, I hope at least one of them make it in Wilds.