@@necrobynerton7384 mostly optical I think, there's a tiny sensor and a huge barrel lens, not the best quality, but you can get very large and clear pictures of the moon
@@pizza.doctor In that case it must be optical then. I have a camera that goes i think 25x optical zoom and about 1000x digital Believe me when i say you can see only pixels at that setting lol
DON'T do it!!!! The zoom is nice but the reason they have such a huge zoom is 2 fold, the sensor is so small that picture quality is not great on blow ups and the camera weighs a ton!! For the price of the camera you can get an amazing spotting scope......
Good video!! i seriously think you are the one person on youtube that actually shows ranges and values of the scopes and how targets look through the glass. GREAT JOB, KEEP IT UP!
Hey dude I really appreciate the feedback, the designer of the scope mount asked if I could make this style video. He said it was something he searched for hours but couldn’t find any info on. So I have one more in mind I want to record.
No problem man , i am seriously telling you this was the video i was searching for also , i have like a cheap scope but want to upgrade, this really hit the nail on the head lol . i do have a wish list though if you are interested in making more videos haha. I do want to see a Swarovski vs a razor vortex get my meaning hahaha ? again, only if possible
I concur with everything you said! Awesome video West Desert Shooter! Keep em coming, you're the only person doing these quality videos of scope comparisons with zoom values that we can actually witness in real world shooting scenarios! Good stuff and it's much appreciated!! Semper Fi!
From your video then I realized what my friend who police special force said 3 years ago. He said for 308 sniper rifle which could easly shoot 800 mtr....just use higher mag of scope if could.... more than 25x or better 50x cause you could see the head target clearly. I said yes but the price of 50x scope will be 5x than the rifle itself :-D
Thanks a lot my man! You have no idea how much this video helps me! I’m a sniper in the military, and I regret saying that I’ve killed as many people as I have. Over my career, some of those hostiles have been anywhere from 3 feet to 1.5 miles away. I’ve used many different scopes over my career, some good and some bad. In the past, when I’ve had a target that’s 1+ miles away in my sights (which really isn’t as uncommon as most people think). I’ve rarely taken the shot because I wasn’t confident giving away my position with the glass I had on my rifle at the time, and lots of times that was because of improper magnification to be confident enough to hit your target. Those of you who have been in my position before, know exactly what I mean when I say it’s EXTREMELY important to be as accurate as possible in life or death scenarios. If you don’t put that target out of action with your first shot, that gives him and his buddies time to get your location and make your life a living hell. Everyone knows that whether you’re shooting a .50 cal or a .22, at super long distances (1+ miles) every round is going to pack a lot less of a punch than it is at 300 yards, and yes some will lose more than others but still. At 1 mile, every shot has to be a kill shot, because a hostile that’s been shot in the arm or leg by a .338 round that’s traveled 1+ miles is still gonna be in A LOT of pain and it might slow him down a bit, but he’s still going to be able to give you hell. At shorter ranges like 3-400 yards a shot to the arm or the leg will likely immobilize them long enough for you to take another shot. When your in a position like that, you need to know that the glass you’ve got on your rifle is good enough and accurate enough to help you hit your target accurately. This video really helped me figure out just how much magnification suits my needs, much more than any of my teammates or CO’s have before.
I don’t normally comment, but I just had to let you know this is a great video! Really helped me to make a decision on which scope to buy. Thanks so much mate.
Very useful video for people like me, who are new to guns & scopes. Gives one a good idea of how much magnification one needs at various ranges. Thanks!
Very nice. Viewers need to keep in mind that this video was made at known distances. To calculate a distance using reticle's subtensions it's easier with the first focal plane scope, in this case it's the Vortex. Shooting at a known distances, it's the shooter's discretion.
Thats what i love about scopes, when i was younger i always thought you'd have to change things every time you zoom because it woudnt line up anymore, i didnt know the size didnt move in relation.
I find the different industries where magnification is used to be interesting: - Optical/Near-IR Astronomy - Microscopy - Firearm scopes/spotting scopes. I say it is interesting because; 1) with a microscope and short throw I can magnify up to 1000-1500 on a budget and extremely accurately, with super-fine adjustments for clarity: enough to make out cell structures./shapes and more. 2) with a telescope I can take something 100s of millions of miles away like Jupiter, focus on it, (some even auto-track for fast moving objects). Something that is the size of a pinhead or grain of sand can be turned into the size of a dime or quarter (depending on scope) Magnification is 20-150x usually. 3) Rifle scopes: ignoring bullet effective range (are usually capable of decent magnification out to about 1-2miles), but really excel in the 200-500yd range. Max magnification is usually somewhere between 4x and 24x, some as high as 60x. I see scope tech as being an area that has a long way to go
Sightron and Vortex are two brands of scope that are best buys for the money spent. As the owner of several Sightron and Vortex rifle scopes, my observation in a very general sense about these two brands is as follow: Vortex: More features, better thought out design and ergonomics, more durably built. Excellent unlimited warranty, but you are likely to need it. Sightron: Better glasses, very accurate horizontal and vertical adjustments especially nearing the limit of adjustment range, and less critical eye relief at high magnification. Average limited warranty, but you are unlikely to need it.
@@ccne11 - Yes. Quality issues especially in Vortex's lower line of scopes made in China. The middle-high to high end lines such as the Viper, Razor, and Golden Eagle that are made in the Philippines and Japan are much better and I've not encountered any problems with them. I also have a Diamondback and a Crossfire and both had to be sent back for repair. The seal on the ocular lens on the Diamond broke causing gas leak and fogging. The Crossfire had small metal debris inside the scope which indicates it was not properly cleaned before it was assembled.
@@ccne11 its all-personal experience. I own 5 vortex rifle scopes 3 of which are there lower end models haven't had a single issue with any of them since 2018 2 of them have been through alot of harsh hunting trips in extreme weather alaska prortland washington rains etc etc still zero issues.. He is right about slightron though they have very good glass
Wow- excellent video. Really wish this was available 10 years ago- I know this will and has helped many out there getting into a scope for long range shooting!
Both types of focal planes have pros and cons. Being a fan of FFP, I like the ability for the spotter to simply give me holds. Since the reticle grows and shrinks in proportion, the holds are true regardless of magnification. For detail work, quality FFPs don't meet in the center, giving you a very fine "empty" spot for detail work. I prefer this as it frames the impact point rather than obscuring it like a center dot on a SFP. Use both and see which one fits your personal style & needs appropriately. One thing I will say for both is that if you're hunting at dusk, an illuminated reticle can be quite helpful in a good number of situations.
While I am late to this video, I feel duty bound to comment that this is the single most valuable content I have found thus far discussing FFP and SFP. Thank you so much for this!
I just watched your last video on a on a comparison of a 24x scope at 500 and 1000 yards only. It was very hard to see the targets until full zoom was achieved. In this video I picked up the targets almost immediately. Not sure what the difference between the two videos was. But this one seemed to be a lot better. Your video was on the suggested video page, so I clicked and so far your videos are looking awesome!
The first one I made was not really planned out and I was not stable. This one I knew what I wanted to talk about and show. I also used a bigger target to look at. Glad you noticed the difference. Thanks for watching!
I purchased my Vortex Viper HST 6-24x50mm new, for $549 while the lowest price I could find for the Sightron SIII 8-32x56 was $749 ..and while they're objective lens is 56mm, light is still limited by their 30mm tube ..plus Sightron doesn't offer a reticle that allows accurate ranging capabilities as does the Vortex VMR-1 MRAD reticle.
Awesome video. I was having difficulty deciding on a scope magnification level. I have a .308 looking to step up to a .338 Lapua. We have approximately 3/4 mile that can be used. I went ahead and bought a 8-32x50 before I saw this video. I guess I wont need that much but I'll have it if i need it. Thank you.
FFP is very necessary if you actually use the scope for calculating distances to targets, like I am. SFP is useful for ELR shooting at known distances and not much else imo.
OMG this helped so much... I'm having trouble choosing between a 2.5-10, a 4-16, and a 6-24 scope for 300yd to 1000yd engagements, and this video was exactly what I was looking for for the upper end of the scale. I would love a medium range scope guide (maybe 200 -> 600) just like this as I'm afraid the 6x (or even the 4x) might be too much at 200-300 on the "human sized" target in practical SHTF use cases. Love it and good work!
@@TheKylebreezyI got the 6-24. The 4-16 is probably enough for human sized targets as I rarely go above 14x, however the range I shoot at has 6" targets at 1000 yards, and the extra magnification is good for those, even if I have difficulty hitting them. The extra zoom will also help with target identification. The 24x also helps me spot for other people and call hits and misses more accurately. That said, if most of your shots are going to be inside 400 yards, the 6x minimum zoom can be a problem. I have trouble sometimes knowing if I'm looking at the 200 or 300 yd target. I also have a Christmas tree reticle, and at 24x you're zoomed in past the bottom of the reticle. I'm pretty happy with my choice, but only you know the conditions, ranges, and what your abilities are. Happy hunting.
This was a really useful video thank you. I’m getting a 6.5 creedmoor put together and some people say more zoom is better. You make a lot of good points where I hunt and shoot 500 is a long shot 16x sounds perfect
Finally... I realize that this videos 2+ year old, but that is about how long I have been looking for one that shows a side-by-side comparison while zooming through all the ranges. Thank You!
Hi Tom: I found the problem it was the scope it's self. I called Konus tech support and he walked me through some trouble shooting steps and determined it was a defective scope. So I returned it and two weeks to the day I had a brand new scope, you can not beat Konus for customer support. I mounted it last week and took it to the range and after three shots at 100 yd's and 5 clicks left I was put them on the X ring, can't beat that. Again thanks for the return help and for anyone out there looking for an affordable scope you should look into the Konus brand.
Why are you recommending a scope that way sold being defective. The idea is to not build a reputation on warranty claims but to have your product work right the first time. Nobody should be excited about a new rifle scope that doesn't work and has to be sent in.
When I first got into centrefire it was only when I found your video posts that things started to come together, thank you for that 😃. I had always liked the 243Win cartridge, so bought a second had Tikka T3X. It came with a cheap scope, so I went Vortex, unfortunately I could only afford a Diamondback but it works great for me. Then I went to your reloading videos and that helped me greatly, so thank you again for those. I would be interested in what you would deem to be a good Standard FPS deviation on ammo please? Please keep up the great work you do.
I still have both my SWFA scopes. I borrowed the sightron for the video and the Vortex has been around for 5 months or so. Yeah I want a 16 also I wouldn’t mind a bit more field of view on my AR but I still want the awesome tracking
I would have but it is comparable to both of these at 20 and that’s all it would show. These scopes can zoom in or out and show a lot more info. Thanks for watching though man!
I have a Vortex Spitfire 1x prism sight on my AR15 that I love. I just got it a couple months ago, but I'm already a big fan of Vortex! My AR just has a standard Bushmaster 16" long barrel, but I upgraded the trigger and put on a free float handguard. There is a local match that is 300 yards range, and I have been looking into trying that, with a long range scope. I found a Bushnell AR 4.5 - 18 scope on sale for $170 on Midway, that I am really seriously considering. I'm thinking about just building a second upper receiver (mostly because when I changed my handguard I realized that my barrel is pretty stuck to my upper receiver) and either get another free float handguard or just put the one I have on my new upper with a longer barrel and put my old handguard back on my carbine upper and just swap out the bolt assembly and charging handle. I would appreciate advice.
Ok, I will help you. What do you mean by "(...my barrel is pretty stuck to my upper receiver)"? I think what you are asking is: Does it make sense to build a second upper receiver solely for the purpose of different range capable optics? ANSWER: Y&N! I will explain why in the next 2 comments.....
YES ANSWER: If you have the $, GO FOR IT! Obviously this option is great because you're scope stays zeroed on your upper and by pushing out 2 take-down pins, swapping out uppers and pushing those 2 TDPs back in, you have completely changed the utility of your rifle/pistol and are ready for action. Now the true beauty of taking this route is when you choose a different caliber and a barrel with a different length & profile to meet the needs of your intended application of this scope. Dont be afraid to use different calibers in your AR15 platform. The options the platform these days seem almost limitless. For instance, I have a pistol lower with an Geissele SSA trigger (possibly one of the best triggers ever made) & a Maxim defense brace. I keep 3 uppers with it and here are their brief summaries - [1] 10.5" 300 AAC Blackout/Eotech red dot & 3× magnifier combo. It is amazing in the 0-300 yard range. [2] 14.5" 5.56/ PA 1-6 LPVO. It really shines in the 0-500 yard club. [3] 12" 6.5 Grendel/Athlon 4-16× & a Lion Power reflex RDS. It is great feim 0 yards out to 800 yards. Don't be afraid of different calibers and setups. Sky is the limit!
NO ANSWER: If $$$ is a bit more scarce, then get 1-peice QD mounts for all of your optics intended for you rifle/pistol. This option isn't the greatest but it sure is cost effective, relatively speaking. When swapping out optics with 1-peice QD mounts, the optics generally go back to near zero....
@@cardboardkiller6883 Thanks for replying to my comment! I honestly forgot all about that, and I just haven't really been as into guns lately. I tried a long range match, and I still didn't really have the right equipment, but I don't know if it was really my cup of tea. I definitely prefer more action type shooting matches, closer range, like pistol steel target or USPSA practical pistol. Maybe I'll find a two gun match some day, where I can use my AR, or three gun and get a shotgun too. Thanks again for the replies, and have a great day!
Great comparison. Both of my LRPRs have SFP scopes and they work for me. Gotta use the proper magnification for ranging, not too much of an issue though. CHEERS.
Boy, the image goes to hell as you zoom up on the Sightron! Where was that made, China, the Philippines? Optical imperfections show up more and more at higher mags. Which is why they say it's wise to put a good scope on a rifle, even if the rifle is of mundane quality, like the Ruger American.
Looking at getting my first long range scope. Never shot long range before so I was unsure how much magnification I would need. This was extremely helpful.
So I've yet to have the pleasure of experiencing long range shooting. At the sort of range shown here, with the metal silhouette targets...how do you know if you hit the center of the target or not? Does the central yellow portion swing out a dueling tree? If so, at those distances is it difficult reacquire the target through your scope fast enough to see it while it's still swinging? I would imagine it drops back down so fast it'd be almost impossible to see. And if it doesn't swing...I guess you better have a spotter there watching to see the round splash on the target if you want to know?
I'm confused with that last side by side at 1 mile max magnification. Unless my math is off which it could very likely be... The vortex is looking at a target only 1000 yards away, not 1 mile. Is the a mistake?
Thanks for sharing, would i be better going for a SFP Scope as id be mainly shooting Rabbits from 50-200 Yards also as i'm now 63 years old and have Diabetes so my eyesight isn't what it was.
I second what person below says about ranging and scope pics Outstanding information for anyone looking for new glass to aid in shot placement. Excellent detail and comparison of scopes keep them coming someone who finally gives us data we can use before dropping our hard earned dollars on new scopes. Thank you
Thanks man cool video very informative. My friend and I are heading to Wyoming next month and we're hoping to get out to a mile with my .260 so this was cool to see.
73Corbin not well... we went on blm right outside of newcastle. I bit off way more than i can chew. It was my first time shooting past 900 yards and i couldn't even hit at 1100 haha. Good experience tho definitely gonna keep trying! Heading out to south dakota at the end of next month and gonna hopefully get 1000 at least! Thanks for asking tho that's cool.
Just saw your video and I think you have the knowledge I'm looking for. I have a Konus Pro-F30 in 8-32X56 and it in Mil's.The adjustment is 1/10 Mil per click. When trying to zero for 100 yds I use up almost all of the elevation adj so I'm screwed if I what to shot out to 1000yd's. It's mounted on a AR platform in 6.5 Grendel. I've worked up load that gives me under a 1/4 moa at that distance, I didn't be leave it but it's on paper and you can't knock that. So the big question to you is what do I need to do to get me out to 1000yd's? I appreciate your help! John Rock
Basically, if you are shooting 1/2" MOA at 100 yards, you would be hitting 5 MOA at 1000. That is just using basic math and assuming nothing changes from 100 to 1000, there are lots of other factors such as bullet ballistics, wind, etc... that will most likely effect the actual poi.
Playing out SHTF in my head and wondering if what scope I should get for my new DD5 .308 and this video helps me get a better grasp at what I would see with a 1-6 lpvo or something greater. I live in KY so 1,000 to 1 mile shots would be extremely unlikely…and further delving into SHTF scenarios, I’d likely not hit anything that far anyway lol
I have a question........looking into these scopes at 500 yards (400 yards), what would the secret service snipers have clearly seen on top of that roof when looking through their scopes at Trump's would be assassin? Several videos clearly show the secret service snipers looking through their scopes toward the building that Thomas Matthew Crooks was on. Reports show that this building was 400 yards away. To me, they would have clearly seen the would be assassin and they would have clearly seen his weapon but maybe I am wrong. What would the secret service snipers have seen at 400 yards?
What gun are we using over here?? AR/M16/M4 or M24 sniper???500 yard? 1000 Yards....call cannon 105 mm or call air power to carpet bomb them and don't let them get away????? SCOPE like this more confuse and afraid the enemies run away if you MISCALCULATION???!!! ( Stupid me thinking??)
coming in in 2022..I still think SFP is the best. FFP is good only for when you want to back off from full magnification a little to get a better sight picture and still be able to use the holdover marks...other than that SFP wins at everything else in my opinion. FFP has certainly become the "must have trend". I own a couple and can use them fine but they become almost useless under 10X without illumination. With SFP you can still dial down and use your holdovers you just have to do a little thinking, which in a stressful situation isnt ideal, but if you have a 24X power scope that the sub tensions are correct on full power, you can dial down to 12 and double your sub tensions....1MOA at 24X becomes 2MOA at 12X..or 1.5MOA at 18X..Mil is the same. In low power scopes like 1-4 to 1-10X I have no clue why they put FFP reticles in those. I can see why in higher power scopes but LPVO. it makes zero sense to me
Great video. Really showed me you do not need all that much magnification to make the shot. I like having lots of magnification but it is not necessary for centre of mass... I like the Sightron fine centre also
I understand........ however I have a working knowledge of Mildot scopes. I would like your honest opinion. What scope would you mount on a 6.5 Creedmoor, semi auto AR platform, 20 inch barrel with suppressor, shooting 140 grains at 1000 yards. I’m looking at Leupold, Nikon, Bushnell or Vortex. $1200.00 or less and why? I’m building it soon. I would like your guys opinions because you get to do this a lot more than I do. I want to start shooting some long range comps and I don’t have deep pockets. Thank you in advance
Excellent!! I have a Savage 110 FCP Lapua and with this same Vortex Viper gen 1 6x24x50 I should be able to work my way out to 1500 yards, no problem. Correct? Thanks for your reply and thank you for the great video.
At the end of the video when you compare the 12x to other magnifications at 500 yards - do you have an error? The 8x on the Vortex looks like it’s 1/2 the size of the 8x with the Sightron. Is the Vortex 8x at 500 yards actually showing 8x at 1000 yards?
Justice9111 I’ll take your word for it. It’s a $1,600 hunting scope but it has the bare minimum in terms of features. It’s a 2nd focal 3-10x42 plex reticle with fixed parallax.
Hi Drew, "fixed parallax" usually means there is a particular range distance where the crosshairs remain steady even with eye misalignment/movement around the focal lens. Generally, the manufacturer will nominate the fixed range; typically for a 4x scope it'll be 75 yards; a 10x scope might be 200 yards. It's a little beyond the field of this discussion but variable parallax allows you to see mirage (crosswinds) at various ranges as well as adjust out the wandering crosshairs... hope that helps.
not mean when you buy an expensive scope...It does the job for you and made you shoot good....MAIN THINGS you know how to use and calculate or NOT.........To me I need something more simple ( easier) hi hi hi ...$$ sometime don't mean anything ....
I think you missed a serious point. SFP allows for click values to only be accurate at max zoom on the turrets SFP, they hold the same value at all magnification
Yup, this part is very important if you need to use any of the in scope markings. FFP is what you want. Second focal plane requires it to be zoomed to specific spots to use the markings in the scope.
That’s just details, they are trying to up sale their scope compared to the vortex scope. Love how they say the reticle is useless at 6 power. This has biased info and I’d stay far away from this manufacturer.
The FFP reticle also doesn’t “get thicker” at max magnification, it covers the exact same amount of target real estate at every point in its travel. The target grows with it.
Retracting my like…why are there no shots taken??? You can look all you want, but there is 0 proof of accuracy. I should make a video like this but showing moa hits at yardage. Or I can just show a video of me postulating.
Me: the difference between 6x and 8x does not matter for hunting at 200yards. 6 works just fine. Also me: oh my god 16x must be so much better than 12x i need to get a 16x for up to 400 yard hunting. i need it. I hope i am not the only person who is that much of an idiot.
These campers are getting out of hand.
i luv camping in pubg tho
@Hey bud Hmm ❤️😂
@Hey bud Hmm *shot shot* you are dead and your words are worth nothing.
@KhakiPeach67 owh no....
@Corat no, no they dont
just attach a nikon p1000 to the top of the gun
(125X zoom)
what on earth are you gonna use 125x for? shooting a lady bug or somthin?
wait optical zoom? or is it digital?
@@necrobynerton7384 mostly optical I think, there's a tiny sensor and a huge barrel lens, not the best quality, but you can get very large and clear pictures of the moon
@@pizza.doctor In that case it must be optical then.
I have a camera that goes i think 25x optical zoom and about 1000x digital
Believe me when i say you can see only pixels at that setting lol
DON'T do it!!!!
The zoom is nice but the reason they have such a huge zoom is 2 fold, the sensor is so small that picture quality is not great on blow ups and the camera weighs a ton!!
For the price of the camera you can get an amazing spotting scope......
Battlefield: *laughs in 40x*
Lol
A 40x should probably be more powerful than battlefield 4 displayed tho.
Cod:cries in 8x
@@alwaysmad4505 cod cries in 20x
ARMA 3: Cries in 20x
Good video!! i seriously think you are the one person on youtube that actually shows ranges and values of the scopes and how targets look through the glass. GREAT JOB, KEEP IT UP!
Hey dude I really appreciate the feedback, the designer of the scope mount asked if I could make this style video. He said it was something he searched for hours but couldn’t find any info on. So I have one more in mind I want to record.
No problem man , i am seriously telling you this was the video i was searching for also , i have like a cheap scope but want to upgrade, this really hit the nail on the head lol . i do have a wish list though if you are interested in making more videos haha. I do want to see a Swarovski vs a razor vortex get my meaning hahaha ? again, only if possible
I concur with everything you said! Awesome video West Desert Shooter! Keep em coming, you're the only person doing these quality videos of scope comparisons with zoom values that we can actually witness in real world shooting scenarios! Good stuff and it's much appreciated!! Semper Fi!
From your video then I realized what my friend who police special force said 3 years ago. He said for 308 sniper rifle which could easly shoot 800 mtr....just use higher mag of scope if could.... more than 25x or better 50x cause you could see the head target clearly.
I said yes but the price of 50x scope will be 5x than the rifle itself :-D
i strongly agree
It's a pity the camera does not convey all the clarity and color reproduction
Thanks a lot my man! You have no idea how much this video helps me! I’m a sniper in the military, and I regret saying that I’ve killed as many people as I have. Over my career, some of those hostiles have been anywhere from 3 feet to 1.5 miles away. I’ve used many different scopes over my career, some good and some bad. In the past, when I’ve had a target that’s 1+ miles away in my sights (which really isn’t as uncommon as most people think). I’ve rarely taken the shot because I wasn’t confident giving away my position with the glass I had on my rifle at the time, and lots of times that was because of improper magnification to be confident enough to hit your target. Those of you who have been in my position before, know exactly what I mean when I say it’s EXTREMELY important to be as accurate as possible in life or death scenarios. If you don’t put that target out of action with your first shot, that gives him and his buddies time to get your location and make your life a living hell. Everyone knows that whether you’re shooting a .50 cal or a .22, at super long distances (1+ miles) every round is going to pack a lot less of a punch than it is at 300 yards, and yes some will lose more than others but still. At 1 mile, every shot has to be a kill shot, because a hostile that’s been shot in the arm or leg by a .338 round that’s traveled 1+ miles is still gonna be in A LOT of pain and it might slow him down a bit, but he’s still going to be able to give you hell. At shorter ranges like 3-400 yards a shot to the arm or the leg will likely immobilize them long enough for you to take another shot. When your in a position like that, you need to know that the glass you’ve got on your rifle is good enough and accurate enough to help you hit your target accurately. This video really helped me figure out just how much magnification suits my needs, much more than any of my teammates or CO’s have before.
The is literally THE. MOST. BS. post I've ever read in my entire life.
I don’t normally comment, but I just had to let you know this is a great video! Really helped me to make a decision on which scope to buy. Thanks so much mate.
Much appreciated man, thanks for commenting. Glad you liked it
Yes, this help knows what the different scope powers look like. Great vid thanks.
Excellent comparison contrast video! I've never seen this POV.
Very useful video for people like me, who are new to guns & scopes. Gives one a good idea of how much magnification one needs at various ranges. Thanks!
It's really hard to visualize this stuff when you're just looking at numbers in a catalog. Thanks for this handy reference.
Very nice. Viewers need to keep in mind that this video was made at known distances. To calculate a distance using reticle's subtensions it's easier with the first focal plane scope, in this case it's the Vortex. Shooting at a known distances, it's the shooter's discretion.
Staring into the center during the video messed with eyes, and for a few seconds I thought you were aiming at Jupiter.
Thats what i love about scopes, when i was younger i always thought you'd have to change things every time you zoom because it woudnt line up anymore, i didnt know the size didnt move in relation.
Oracuda only true for FFP scopes so when you where a kid they probably didn’t. Since FFP scopes are fresh new hotness lol
I find the different industries where magnification is used to be interesting:
- Optical/Near-IR Astronomy
- Microscopy
- Firearm scopes/spotting scopes.
I say it is interesting because;
1) with a microscope and short throw I can magnify up to 1000-1500 on a budget and extremely accurately, with super-fine adjustments for clarity: enough to make out cell structures./shapes and more.
2) with a telescope I can take something 100s of millions of miles away like Jupiter, focus on it, (some even auto-track for fast moving objects). Something that is the size of a pinhead or grain of sand can be turned into the size of a dime or quarter (depending on scope) Magnification is 20-150x usually.
3) Rifle scopes: ignoring bullet effective range (are usually capable of decent magnification out to about 1-2miles), but really excel in the 200-500yd range.
Max magnification is usually somewhere between 4x and 24x, some as high as 60x.
I see scope tech as being an area that has a long way to go
Thanks I was wondering what 24 power looked like at 1000 yrs.
Great video showing actual view through the scope’s various magnifications. 👍🏼
Very interesting I like this video some of us don't get to see a 1000 yd
Watching king of the 2miles shooting vidja .
Sightron and Vortex are two brands of scope that are best buys for the money spent. As the owner of several Sightron and Vortex rifle scopes, my observation in a very general sense about these two brands is as follow:
Vortex: More features, better thought out design and ergonomics, more durably built. Excellent unlimited warranty, but you are likely to need it.
Sightron: Better glasses, very accurate horizontal and vertical adjustments especially nearing the limit of adjustment range, and less critical eye relief at high magnification. Average limited warranty, but you are unlikely to need it.
Why are you more likely to need it on the vortex? Quality issues?
@@ccne11 - Yes. Quality issues especially in Vortex's lower line of scopes made in China. The middle-high to high end lines such as the Viper, Razor, and Golden Eagle that are made in the Philippines and Japan are much better and I've not encountered any problems with them. I also have a Diamondback and a Crossfire and both had to be sent back for repair. The seal on the ocular lens on the Diamond broke causing gas leak and fogging. The Crossfire had small metal debris inside the scope which indicates it was not properly cleaned before it was assembled.
@@ccne11 its all-personal experience. I own 5 vortex rifle scopes 3 of which are there lower end models haven't had a single issue with any of them since 2018 2 of them have been through alot of harsh hunting trips in extreme weather alaska prortland washington rains etc etc still zero issues.. He is right about slightron though they have very good glass
@@F15ElectricEagle thanks for you input. What about the Vortex Taurus 5x30 56? Is that model worth it or it's mostly on the low to mid-range value?
Yes this is actually helpful. I had been wondering what kind of power I was looking for and this settles it as around 12-14 max.
Wow- excellent video. Really wish this was available 10 years ago- I know this will and has helped many out there getting into a scope for long range shooting!
Nice vid, I still prefer 1st focal plane though for longer distances!
Now that was definitely worth watching !
Great video, but overlaying two audio tracks is busy and I couldn't hear some of the scope power readings. Displaying those would be awesome!
Zoom in any closer and you can see their thoughts
Both types of focal planes have pros and cons. Being a fan of FFP, I like the ability for the spotter to simply give me holds. Since the reticle grows and shrinks in proportion, the holds are true regardless of magnification. For detail work, quality FFPs don't meet in the center, giving you a very fine "empty" spot for detail work. I prefer this as it frames the impact point rather than obscuring it like a center dot on a SFP. Use both and see which one fits your personal style & needs appropriately. One thing I will say for both is that if you're hunting at dusk, an illuminated reticle can be quite helpful in a good number of situations.
Super helpful video, thanks!
I can't even describe how helpful this is as I prepare to buy my next new scope!
While I am late to this video, I feel duty bound to comment that this is the single most valuable content I have found thus far discussing FFP and SFP. Thank you so much for this!
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I just watched your last video on a on a comparison of a 24x scope at 500 and 1000 yards only. It was very hard to see the targets until full zoom was achieved. In this video I picked up the targets almost immediately. Not sure what the difference between the two videos was. But this one seemed to be a lot better. Your video was on the suggested video page, so I clicked and so far your videos are looking awesome!
The first one I made was not really planned out and I was not stable. This one I knew what I wanted to talk about and show. I also used a bigger target to look at. Glad you noticed the difference. Thanks for watching!
I purchased my Vortex Viper HST 6-24x50mm new, for $549 while the lowest price I could find for the Sightron SIII 8-32x56 was $749 ..and while they're objective lens is 56mm, light is still limited by their 30mm tube ..plus Sightron doesn't offer a reticle that allows accurate ranging capabilities as does the Vortex VMR-1 MRAD reticle.
Thanks for the vid. Had high hopes for the Sightron but it failed IMHO. The optical aberration is way worse than with the Vortex.
Need to understand differences between an FFP and SFP. It's not apples to apples at all.
vortex had me with the lifetime guarantee, small bore rifles up to 400 yards loved it
Awesome video. I was having difficulty deciding on a scope magnification level. I have a .308 looking to step up to a .338 Lapua. We have approximately 3/4 mile that can be used. I went ahead and bought a 8-32x50 before I saw this video. I guess I wont need that much but I'll have it if i need it. Thank you.
You got a New suscriber from France! Yep, we also also have and like guns here... 😎🇫🇷😇
Awesome! Glad to have you aboard brother!
West Desert Shooter Yep! And my name "Frater" means brother in Latin ...
@@philippefrater2000 Screw France.
@@Wiimaster. Wow, nice way to get along with a fellow gun owner. No wonder we are losing our rights.
We shot 2,000 yards at 80F and could only use 14X because the mirage was excessive above that.
Target rifle class people be like what's zoom? Lol
Phantom Forces: *laughs in 40x*
i stole it from a person yes
At least you’re self aware lol
@@itakepainkillers9834 yes
FFP is very necessary if you actually use the scope for calculating distances to targets, like I am. SFP is useful for ELR shooting at known distances and not much else imo.
I'm from Logan, I moved to NC two years ago but moving back to Utah in a few weeks. I Miss my home state.
That trajectory at a mile was more impressive than anything else.
OMG this helped so much... I'm having trouble choosing between a 2.5-10, a 4-16, and a 6-24 scope for 300yd to 1000yd engagements, and this video was exactly what I was looking for for the upper end of the scale. I would love a medium range scope guide (maybe 200 -> 600) just like this as I'm afraid the 6x (or even the 4x) might be too much at 200-300 on the "human sized" target in practical SHTF use cases. Love it and good work!
Just add an offset sight set, or offset red dot.
Did you ever pick a scope I'm in the same boat?
@@TheKylebreezyI got the 6-24. The 4-16 is probably enough for human sized targets as I rarely go above 14x, however the range I shoot at has 6" targets at 1000 yards, and the extra magnification is good for those, even if I have difficulty hitting them. The extra zoom will also help with target identification. The 24x also helps me spot for other people and call hits and misses more accurately.
That said, if most of your shots are going to be inside 400 yards, the 6x minimum zoom can be a problem. I have trouble sometimes knowing if I'm looking at the 200 or 300 yd target. I also have a Christmas tree reticle, and at 24x you're zoomed in past the bottom of the reticle.
I'm pretty happy with my choice, but only you know the conditions, ranges, and what your abilities are. Happy hunting.
@mattwestlake6784 thanks a bunch think the 4-16 will do. Again thank you
This was a really useful video thank you. I’m getting a 6.5 creedmoor put together and some people say more zoom is better. You make a lot of good points where I hunt and shoot 500 is a long shot 16x sounds perfect
Finally... I realize that this videos 2+ year old, but that is about how long I have been looking for one that shows a side-by-side comparison while zooming through all the ranges. Thank You!
Now show the view under extreme mirage conditions so people get an idea what shooters have to contend with sometimes.
I went with the Sightron over the Vortex, though I went with the ffp version. It just edged the Vortex out. Both good scopes though. Great review.
I want this in PUBG mobile please hurry
Hi Tom: I found the problem it was the scope it's self. I called Konus tech support and he walked me through some trouble shooting steps and determined it was a defective scope. So I returned it and two weeks to the day I had a brand new scope, you can not beat Konus for customer support. I mounted it last week and took it to the range and after three shots at 100 yd's and 5 clicks left I was put them on the X ring, can't beat that. Again thanks for the return help and for anyone out there looking for an affordable scope you should look into the Konus brand.
Why are you recommending a scope that way sold being defective. The idea is to not build a reputation on warranty claims but to have your product work right the first time. Nobody should be excited about a new rifle scope that doesn't work and has to be sent in.
Great video, thanks. Some rough color aberration in that Vortex!
great video
When I first got into centrefire it was only when I found your video posts
that things started to come together, thank you for that 😃.
I had always liked the 243Win cartridge, so bought a second had Tikka T3X.
It came with a cheap scope, so I went Vortex, unfortunately I could only afford
a Diamondback but it works great for me.
Then I went to your reloading videos and that helped me greatly, so thank you again for those.
I would be interested in what you would deem to be a good Standard FPS deviation on ammo please?
Please keep up the great work you do.
Hey bud.. are these new scopes? No more fixed 20x swfa? I have a swfa 10x... i wish i would have gotten the 16 or 20...
I still have both my SWFA scopes. I borrowed the sightron for the video and the Vortex has been around for 5 months or so. Yeah I want a 16 also I wouldn’t mind a bit more field of view on my AR but I still want the awesome tracking
Great video!! Wish you rolled in the SWFA as a dark house 3rd comparison but I loved this breakdown and the side by side pictures/video was great
I would have but it is comparable to both of these at 20 and that’s all it would show. These scopes can zoom in or out and show a lot more info. Thanks for watching though man!
I have a Vortex Spitfire 1x prism sight on my AR15 that I love. I just got it a couple months ago, but I'm already a big fan of Vortex! My AR just has a standard Bushmaster 16" long barrel, but I upgraded the trigger and put on a free float handguard. There is a local match that is 300 yards range, and I have been looking into trying that, with a long range scope. I found a Bushnell AR 4.5 - 18 scope on sale for $170 on Midway, that I am really seriously considering.
I'm thinking about just building a second upper receiver (mostly because when I changed my handguard I realized that my barrel is pretty stuck to my upper receiver) and either get another free float handguard or just put the one I have on my new upper with a longer barrel and put my old handguard back on my carbine upper and just swap out the bolt assembly and charging handle.
I would appreciate advice.
Ok, I will help you.
What do you mean by "(...my barrel is pretty stuck to my upper receiver)"?
I think what you are asking is: Does it make sense to build a second upper receiver solely for the purpose of different range capable optics?
ANSWER: Y&N! I will explain why in the next 2 comments.....
YES ANSWER:
If you have the $, GO FOR IT!
Obviously this option is great because you're scope stays zeroed on your upper and by pushing out 2 take-down pins, swapping
out uppers and pushing those 2 TDPs back in, you have completely changed the utility of your rifle/pistol and are ready for action.
Now the true beauty of taking this route is when you choose a different caliber and a barrel with a different length & profile to meet the needs of your intended application of this scope. Dont be afraid to use different calibers in your AR15 platform. The options the platform these days seem almost limitless.
For instance, I have a pistol lower with an Geissele SSA trigger (possibly one of the best triggers ever made) & a Maxim defense brace. I keep 3 uppers with it and here are their brief summaries -
[1] 10.5" 300 AAC Blackout/Eotech red dot & 3× magnifier combo. It is amazing in the 0-300 yard range.
[2] 14.5" 5.56/ PA 1-6 LPVO. It really shines in the 0-500 yard club.
[3] 12" 6.5 Grendel/Athlon 4-16× & a Lion Power reflex RDS. It is great feim 0 yards out to 800 yards.
Don't be afraid of different calibers and setups. Sky is the limit!
NO ANSWER:
If $$$ is a bit more scarce, then get 1-peice QD mounts for all of your optics intended for you rifle/pistol. This option isn't the greatest but it sure is cost effective, relatively speaking. When swapping out optics with 1-peice QD mounts, the optics generally go back to near zero....
@@cardboardkiller6883 Thanks for replying to my comment! I honestly forgot all about that, and I just haven't really been as into guns lately. I tried a long range match, and I still didn't really have the right equipment, but I don't know if it was really my cup of tea.
I definitely prefer more action type shooting matches, closer range, like pistol steel target or USPSA practical pistol. Maybe I'll find a two gun match some day, where I can use my AR, or three gun and get a shotgun too. Thanks again for the replies, and have a great day!
@@schneir5 have you considered a a 9mm subgun like Sig MPX, CZ SCORPION, etc.....?
Those may be more suited to your shooting needs.....
Great comparison. Both of my LRPRs have SFP scopes and they work for me. Gotta use the proper magnification for ranging, not too much of an issue though. CHEERS.
Boy, the image goes to hell as you zoom up on the Sightron! Where was that made, China, the Philippines? Optical imperfections show up more and more at higher mags. Which is why they say it's wise to put a good scope on a rifle, even if the rifle is of mundane quality, like the Ruger American.
Vortex are made in china too, by the way...
Looking at getting my first long range scope. Never shot long range before so I was unsure how much magnification I would need. This was extremely helpful.
Thanks, Your video is well done.
Very good video bud , great viewing those distances through the scopes appreciate it 👍
So I've yet to have the pleasure of experiencing long range shooting. At the sort of range shown here, with the metal silhouette targets...how do you know if you hit the center of the target or not? Does the central yellow portion swing out a dueling tree? If so, at those distances is it difficult reacquire the target through your scope fast enough to see it while it's still swinging? I would imagine it drops back down so fast it'd be almost impossible to see. And if it doesn't swing...I guess you better have a spotter there watching to see the round splash on the target if you want to know?
Good jop. Greetings from Poland.
*Sir Discovery VT-R 3-9x40 scope good or not good ? Please reply* ... 🤔
damn you sound like john krasinski
Like others said, great video. Fact without fluff. It left me with no questions regarding the subject matter.
I'm confused with that last side by side at 1 mile max magnification. Unless my math is off which it could very likely be... The vortex is looking at a target only 1000 yards away, not 1 mile. Is the a mistake?
I was practicing my ranging formulas for moa when I spotted this
Thanks for sharing, would i be better going for a SFP Scope as id be mainly shooting Rabbits from 50-200 Yards also as i'm now 63 years old and have Diabetes so my eyesight isn't what it was.
I second what person below says about ranging and scope pics Outstanding information for anyone looking for new glass to aid in shot placement. Excellent detail and comparison of scopes keep them coming someone who finally gives us data we can use before dropping our hard earned dollars on new scopes. Thank you
This video helped me so much. Looking at scopes to buy and this was great!
Thanks man cool video very informative. My friend and I are heading to Wyoming next month and we're hoping to get out to a mile with my .260 so this was cool to see.
73Corbin not well... we went on blm right outside of newcastle. I bit off way more than i can chew. It was my first time shooting past 900 yards and i couldn't even hit at 1100 haha. Good experience tho definitely gonna keep trying! Heading out to south dakota at the end of next month and gonna hopefully get 1000 at least! Thanks for asking tho that's cool.
Just saw your video and I think you have the knowledge I'm looking for. I have a Konus Pro-F30 in 8-32X56 and it in Mil's.The adjustment is 1/10 Mil per click. When trying to zero for 100 yds I use up almost all of the elevation adj so I'm screwed if I what to shot out to 1000yd's. It's mounted on a AR platform in 6.5 Grendel. I've worked up load that gives me under a 1/4 moa at that distance, I didn't be leave it but it's on paper and you can't knock that. So the big question to you is what do I need to do to get me out to 1000yd's?
I appreciate your help!
John Rock
John Rock What’s it mounted in? Is the base perhaps on backwards?
The chromatic aberration on those scopes is awful. That's what you get with a 600-800 dollar scope.
800 dollars is still a lot bruh
@@shahanshahpolonium Not for serious long range shooters
@@Halal_Dan wow
You should do another one but subtitle it for the people who are deaf or hard of hearing
I’m still liking your SWFA due to the cost for the quality. Good video man
Yeah me too but maybe someone who’s not sure which magnification to choose this could help them get an idea of the sight picture they would have
If your shooting sub moa 1/2"or 3/8" at 100 yrds sighted in at 1000 yrds what's your tightest group.
Basically, if you are shooting 1/2" MOA at 100 yards, you would be hitting 5 MOA at 1000. That is just using basic math and assuming nothing changes from 100 to 1000, there are lots of other factors such as bullet ballistics, wind, etc... that will most likely effect the actual poi.
Great video, man. This was the deciding factor for me choosing between FFP and SFP.
Awesome, which did you choose?
Love the side by side comparison. Great job
Playing out SHTF in my head and wondering if what scope I should get for my new DD5 .308 and this video helps me get a better grasp at what I would see with a 1-6 lpvo or something greater. I live in KY so 1,000 to 1 mile shots would be extremely unlikely…and further delving into SHTF scenarios, I’d likely not hit anything that far anyway lol
Nobody :
Me after watching this: my whole life is a lie 🤥.... Pubg players can understand 😑.
I have a question........looking into these scopes at 500 yards (400 yards), what would the secret service snipers have clearly seen on top of that roof when looking through their scopes at Trump's would be assassin? Several videos clearly show the secret service snipers looking through their scopes toward the building that Thomas Matthew Crooks was on. Reports show that this building was 400 yards away. To me, they would have clearly seen the would be assassin and they would have clearly seen his weapon but maybe I am wrong. What would the secret service snipers have seen at 400 yards?
What gun are we using over here?? AR/M16/M4 or M24 sniper???500 yard? 1000 Yards....call cannon 105 mm or call air power to carpet bomb them and don't let them get away????? SCOPE like this more confuse and afraid the enemies run away if you MISCALCULATION???!!! ( Stupid me thinking??)
coming in in 2022..I still think SFP is the best. FFP is good only for when you want to back off from full magnification a little to get a better sight picture and still be able to use the holdover marks...other than that SFP wins at everything else in my opinion.
FFP has certainly become the "must have trend". I own a couple and can use them fine but they become almost useless under 10X without illumination.
With SFP you can still dial down and use your holdovers you just have to do a little thinking, which in a stressful situation isnt ideal, but if you have a 24X power scope that the sub tensions are correct on full power, you can dial down to 12 and double your sub tensions....1MOA at 24X becomes 2MOA at 12X..or 1.5MOA at 18X..Mil is the same.
In low power scopes like 1-4 to 1-10X I have no clue why they put FFP reticles in those.
I can see why in higher power scopes but LPVO. it makes zero sense to me
These are the videos people want to see for scopes!!!
Great video.
Really showed me you do not need all that much magnification to make the shot.
I like having lots of magnification but it is not necessary for centre of mass...
I like the Sightron fine centre also
Sightron seems to suck in more light as it’s got a brighter image which is great for low light shooting, thanks for your video 👍🏼
I understand........ however I have a working knowledge of Mildot scopes. I would like your honest opinion. What scope would you mount on a 6.5 Creedmoor, semi auto AR platform, 20 inch barrel with suppressor, shooting 140 grains at 1000 yards. I’m looking at Leupold, Nikon, Bushnell or Vortex. $1200.00 or less and why? I’m building it soon. I would like your guys opinions because you get to do this a lot more than I do. I want to start shooting some long range comps and I don’t have deep pockets. Thank you in advance
Excellent!! I have a Savage 110 FCP Lapua and with this same Vortex Viper gen 1 6x24x50 I should be able to work my way out to 1500 yards, no problem. Correct?
Thanks for your reply and thank you for the great video.
At the end of the video when you compare the 12x to other magnifications at 500 yards - do you have an error? The 8x on the Vortex looks like it’s 1/2 the size of the 8x with the Sightron. Is the Vortex 8x at 500 yards actually showing 8x at 1000 yards?
aim small mis small zoom in all the way''.....
Nice setup! My 1000yd rifle has a 10x Swarovski. Only problem is it's a fixed parallax...
Justice9111
How so?
I always thought if the parallax wasn’t dialed in the crosshairs will move
Justice9111
I’ll take your word for it.
It’s a $1,600 hunting scope but it has the bare minimum in terms of features. It’s a 2nd focal 3-10x42 plex reticle with fixed parallax.
Justice9111
variable power that is
Justice9111
I said it was “fixed parallax”
Hi Drew, "fixed parallax" usually means there is a particular range distance where the crosshairs remain steady even with eye misalignment/movement around the focal lens. Generally, the manufacturer will nominate the fixed range; typically for a 4x scope it'll be 75 yards; a 10x scope might be 200 yards. It's a little beyond the field of this discussion but variable parallax allows you to see mirage (crosswinds) at various ranges as well as adjust out the wandering crosshairs... hope that helps.
The a/b side by side views; were not identified- throughout this video. It got confusing for lack of scope i.d.
not mean when you buy an expensive scope...It does the job for you and made you shoot good....MAIN THINGS you know how to use and calculate or NOT.........To me I need something more simple ( easier) hi hi hi ...$$ sometime don't mean anything ....
I think you missed a serious point. SFP allows for click values to only be accurate at max zoom on the turrets SFP, they hold the same value at all magnification
Yup, this part is very important if you need to use any of the in scope markings. FFP is what you want. Second focal plane requires it to be zoomed to specific spots to use the markings in the scope.
That’s just details, they are trying to up sale their scope compared to the vortex scope. Love how they say the reticle is useless at 6 power. This has biased info and I’d stay far away from this manufacturer.
The FFP reticle also doesn’t “get thicker” at max magnification, it covers the exact same amount of target real estate at every point in its travel. The target grows with it.
Retracting my like…why are there no shots taken??? You can look all you want, but there is 0 proof of accuracy. I should make a video like this but showing moa hits at yardage. Or I can just show a video of me postulating.
Me: the difference between 6x and 8x does not matter for hunting at 200yards. 6 works just fine.
Also me: oh my god 16x must be so much better than 12x i need to get a 16x for up to 400 yard hunting. i need it.
I hope i am not the only person who is that much of an idiot.
Not buying Vortex, I'd rather buy Made in USA, Eotech, Leupold, Nightforce, Redfield, Trijicon, USoptics and more...
Thanks man. I was developing a sniper based video game and wanted to understand how snipers work. This was good, thank you
If you want more help please send me an email, I’d like to help you get it right! Accurate games are more fun
Getting shot by someone who’s literally a mile away is disrespectful
Great video- I never tried making a YT video, but it looks like you put a lot of hours into putting it all together the way you did- Thank you-
These definitely take time to make. Thanks for appreciating the effort. I appreciate you watching the video, cheers!
@@WestDesertShooter looks like we may never know... I was also keen to see his answer