I misspoke at 5:30 and said the spring rate was "105 kilograms per millimeter." That would be an insanely stiff coil. It's actually a 105 Newton spring, but hey, those are the kind of mistakes you make when you're live filming.
@@thamomentumNah, ryan f9 is just an over glorified dude because of the cinematography in their videos. From riding skill, technical stuff, and information delivery, ari and zach are miles better.
Don't forget to get a popular brand if you plan on keeping the bike. Ohlins, Penske, Nitron are a couple of brands that just about any suspension shop can service. It'll save you tons of headaches and frustration in the future. Race-Tech is a suspension company based out of SoCal and they offer really good quality kits to make your stock forks function like aftermarket forks for way less money. They also take OEM shocks and turn them into proper working units by installing new vales and re-setting your shim stacks to match your riding skills and needs. Andreani also makes really nice OEM fork upgrade kits (cartridges) that'll save you a fortune and work amazingly well. I use them on Ducatis. I have NEVER installed an Ohlins shock and said... damn, I think I spent too much money.
I have Race-Tech front forks and rear suspension on one of my KTM 640 Adventures and will have Ohlins F and R on a 2000 BMW R1150GS I'm picking up in a month or so. Looking forward to see how the Ohlins make that bike handle. The KTM is a laudable ADV BDR rig.
The Shop Manual is one of the most valuable ressources on the Internet :) That being said: I am pretty sure that it is not 105kg/mm.. that spring wouldn't move at all. Probably rather 105N/mm
Perhaps. At 6'4", I weigh right at 105 kg myself. I admit I don't know a ton about bike shocks, but if I wanted a super stiff track spring, that number seems ok to me.
@chukku2175 You're correct. I've recently changed the spring on my Ohlins rear shock and the last two digits of the code number on the spring itself tells you the spring rate. As this is a 60293-36 spring, the -36 tells you it's 105N/mm, equivalent to 10.7kg/mm.
A couple years ago, I put a take-off Ohlins on my Ducati 848. I honestly did not expect much, especially on the street, but the combination of comfort and control was eye opening.
I did the same with a K-Tech DDS Lite on my 2016 ZX10R. The Factory Showa BFRC shock wasn't the worst i've ridden, but it severly lacked rebound control. Showa and K-Tech stopped making rebuild kits in 2020, so I ether had to get a newer Showa unit, or an Aftermarket unit. My suspension guy is K-tech, and had been bugging me for a couple years to get a DDS. Once it was on the bike and dialed in, I was amazed how good it is! I also got my elderly dad an Ohlins TTX for his 2013 Concurs 13, and he absolutely loves it, and feels like he can keep riding now (due to the comfort and stability) easily into his 80's.
Put Ohlins shocks and cartridges onto my 2015 FZ-09 and it was like night and day. I run around the 220lbs mark and the stock suspension was scary for my normal but spirited street driving. It would wallow and buck around corners and while stopping. The new suspension tailored to my weight inspired confidence in the corners that previously were sketchy to dive into. Everything felt more planted. It was well worth the money. Now had I weighed just a buck 50 the stock might have been acceptable.
Exactly the biggest misconception about suspension is that you don't need better one because you don't ride fast or aggressive or track or whatever. That's not the case. The biggest improvement is comfort so ull get improvement regardless of way u ride
Then the question is how important is comfort? Everything has a price. The fact is that there are hundreds of millions of motorcycles around the world (especially the third world) with garbage suspension.
@@victoriazero8869 comfort subjective? maybe to some degree, depending on your weight. But you eighter feell sharp jerks or no. adjustment dont change too much in that regard. usually issue is much deeper, and adjustment, especially on forks changes very little
Suspension directly affects how much traction your tyres can lay down. It is absolutely one of the single biggest performance improvements you can make to a machine in the semi long term basis. correctly set up suspension is making life easier in the most important aspects of motorcycle riding... Cornering, acceleration and brakingm
I cannot emphasize how happy it makes me that Ari uses the term "damping" correctly. Too often people use the word dampening, which is completely wrong.
Linguistically both are correct, however technically 'damping' is _more_ correct because in most institutes that is the word used when talking mass-spring-damper systems.
While I agree, I think this is the kind of case where the "incorrect" term is used more often than the "correct" term, to the extent that the "incorrect" term actually becomes the "correct" term in practice. Not unlike how people have used, e.g., "disinterested" to mean "having lack of interest" -- as opposed to "impartial," which is its true definition -- rather than, correctly, "uninterested," to the point where, now, seemingly "disinterested" is the more "accepted" use to denote the meaning. Or, how "extravert," through mis-usage over time, has now become, firmly entrenched, "extrovert."
Bite the bullet and pull the trigger on the Ohlins TTX GP shock for my 2018 Suzuki GSX-R750. After hearing from friends, it would be a waste of money if I don't take it to the track. It's absolutely wrong... It was a night and day difference for me. Even just for commuting, I felt the difference and love how my bike handles. My only regret is not getting it sooner.
Find a way to get to a track. It's so nice to be able to open your bike up safely and without worrying about all the risks of the road. That 750 wants it bad. You spent the money on the suspension. Go enjoy it
Suspension upgrades are the most cost effective improvements you can make. For those of us without an Ohlins/Penske budget there's a good chance to make a significant by swapping in a good sport bike shock. Check forums for your bike, there's likely someone that's already done it.
I have 2 Suzuki Burgman 650 scooters. I am 215 pounds and the scooter is about 600 pounds and i do load it up with camping gear sometimes. Loaded up for a road trip the rear tire would bottom out on the trunk liner hard, even with the preload set on #5. One is 100% stock sprung and shocked. The other I put a set of Progressive shocks and springs and a RaceTec front Emulator. The upgraded suspension is so much better. I used a set of Progressive "Goldwing 1200" spec shocks and 2 steps stiffer springs in the rear. Up front I used RaceTec 2 steps stiffer springs and Beltec 15W fork oil. With a 150 pound camping load and the preload set on #2 it never bottoms out.
Just changing the springs on my Africa Twin sold me on the importance of proper suspension set up. I’ve since tuned both sides but proper spring set up is honestly the first thing I’ll do to any new bike now, it’s that significant!
I bought a Öhlins for my twenty years old FZ6S and it totally changed the bike. Most probably the old one was already not damping at all. But now, it is just sticked to the ground and steady in the curves also when changing the liad by braking f.e. Best investition!!!
I have a Buell Ulysses and the shock is fully adjustable and when I tried a friends XB with the Olin’s, I really couldn’t tell the difference, even when pushing hard on bumpy roads. Idk what Erik Buell specified but he nailed it.
Great stuff as always. One more advanced factor is a more sophisticated damping curve on the aftermarket shock. It really is amazing how a Ohlins shock will handle better AND ride smoother over bumps than a stock shock, regardless of whether the stock shock has the "correct" damping and spring.
I got some hands-on training at Ohlins HQ and got to see the massive library of damping options. Literally dozens of shim-stack arrangements for comp/reb with corresponding damping chart for each of the 20+ clicks of adjustment. Those folks like data!
The MT-09 has always been known for its "budget" suspension. I knew that when I bought one, and indeed, the suspension was horrible. Because I knew that I had already budgeted for an upgrade: Traxxion Dynamics cartridges for the fork, an Ohlins shock, and springs for my weight. That totally transformed the bike!
Just got a current XSR900. Suspension is awful. I knew I’d be upgrading it, but I didn’t know it was this bad from new! Yamaha had to cut corners somewhere.
@@robertchapman6795 I had the suspension installed during the 600 mile break-in service, but during those 600 miles I almost regretted getting the bike, the stock suspension was that bad.
@@MrWolf2212 I would imagine that the suspension on the SP is much better than the base version. But on my bike, the spring rates for the shock the forks are specifically selected to support my weight. The SP does have an Ohlins shock and much better fork internals, but the spring rates are selected by Yamaha presumably for the average rider.
At 6'4", 240lbs, I've swapped my rear shock on most of my bikes -- it's not the cheapest modification, but I realize it's worth every penny. I have sport bikes, cruisers and an adventure bike -- worth it for the comfort changes alone at my size.
Installing a new Cogent Dynamics shock (with an Ohlins spring) was a game changer for my 2019 DR650. That, in conjunction with their springs and drop in damper cartridges for the front end, completely changed the bike for my 200 lb frame (plus riding gear)and is the reason I kept the motorcycle instead of selling it. Best money spent.
In most cases,.if u already have fully.adjustible suspension the best thing is to do tune in pro suspension shop instead of throwing lot of cash on ohlins etc. if you don't do tune on those aftermarket components they will work worse than well tuned stock suspension. Guarantee u it'll be your best spent money on bike
I replaced my front shock on my '12 R1200RT with a Tractive electronic suspension from Ted Porter. It was customized to my weight and is fully rebuildable. No regrets.
I own a Yamaha MT-07. A half year ago, i changed my original Front suspension to some progressive Öhlins springs. This upgrade changed the feeling of the bike completely! From an uncomfortable feeling in fast corners to some knife sharp handling and great feedback! I'm thinking about getting the rear suspension in the future as well. It's worth the bucks!
Excellent video! I'm thinking for me it would be very important to get a motorcycle with fully adjustable shocks or up grade almost any bike because I'm 285 lb 6 feet tall. Definitely outside of average 😢
You don't need to buy Ohlins quality stuff to get a better ride - especially if you're doing work on older bikes. I found a Hagon (UK) shock for $400 USD that was set up for my weight, bike and riding that is fully adjustable and rebuildable. Unlike the stock piece of crap that came off my '87 FZR1000.
Yep, there are affordable adjustable shocks out there, I bought a Hagon unit for a CB500X. MASSIVE improvement since the stock unit is just offensively bad. That being said, that specific Hagon shock doesn't have a fancy roller bearing on the swingarm connection, so there is a noticeable amount of stiction.
Playing with pre-load just messes up static sag, it removes static staging. Then going around a corner, hit a bump, and the rear wheel unloads. Custom spring rate for a ride is a must. Pre-load really should only be adjusted for luggage, and then ride handling is compromised and it is a trade off. Or just go slow around corners and avoid bumps at high speed if you are heavy on stock springs.
Great video. Suspension upgrades are the single biggest (most noticeable) improvement that you can make to a sportbike. Once you do it, you will regret having not done it sooner (street or track)
The only thing I would add to the spring rate is riding ability. Weight alone is not enough to determine spring rate. I ordered suspension, told the manufacturer my weight and riding ability, and spring was still way too soft. They got it wrong. Should have been much stiffer. Now I have to order new stiffer springs.
Depending on the bike and how much you weigh, it is 100% worth it. If i'm bottoming out the shocks on my Harley, clearly, it needs an upgrade or me a downgrade. 🙂
The other thing Ari didnt bring up is how much of a defecit you are in already. If you are on something with a modern shock some adjustability, if you arent doing regular track days, you probably dont need an aftermarket. If you are on something from the 80's, or on something where they went SUPER basic (most low to mid tier Hondas come to mind) then even for basic riding it would be worthwhile to make an upgrade of some kind. That was the real deciding factor for me going up a grade in dual sport/dirt bikes. I was perfecy happy on my little ttr, until riding a buddy's ktm with modern wp stuff. The bump in power was cool, but I was blown away by the difference decent suspension makes.
That's pretty awesome. I remember when I put an R6 shock on my 2017 rc390. HUGE world of improvement just with that. I eventually bought another one that was modified to take different spring rates, and having that one rebuilt with a valve kit.
it's crazy how much of a difference a couple of turns, or half turns or even quarter turns can make on a shock, or forks for that matter. I was playing with the idea of having my rear shock replaced and posibly some work on the front suspension until I said ef it, let me play a bit with the settings. Not saying that there aren't people who know what they want and know the limitations of the OEM gear but most normies just leave the stock suspension set as is and then jump to replacement. And there are are a lot of other normies, probably a bit higher on the dunning kruger curve who "expertly" advise the first group to do said change. On a side note, some Shop Manual videos about how to tune the suspension both front and rear, would be great. What does preload/compression/rebound do, what should one feel and in what order should they be tweaked, in what increments, what to look for maybe in terms of bike type and so on ("small" request, I know :)) ).
Would love to see a video on adjusting and servicing drum brakes. They're not uncommon on modern 125s, and the new riders owning them need the extra help making maintenance accessible as they get too know their machine
do they need help and guidance with tying shoes too?? honestly the best investment anyone can make with a motorcycle they intend to keep is to acquire a service manual.
Please do this, my bike has no manual so I have to work things out based on similar models painstakingly sometimes, gee thanks honda :P 4 hours to find out where and how to order an oem oil filter was bad enough, not looking forward to needing to do this. For anyone in the uk, fowlers is the best dealer I've found.
Great contribution Ari and team! I’ve got an amazing ‘05 GS that was upgraded to Öhlins at some point. The bike rides wonderfully comfy and controlled. Will bookmark this. Bret Tkacs did a good one a couple years ago where he had an engineer demonstrate how the nitrogen and oil cooperate, yes these components are worth it.
I'm a bigger guy(6'2" - 260#) I've always found stock suspension on any bike I've ridden to be sub par for sure. I currently have a Triumph Speed Twin 1200. When I upgraded the front and rear to Nitrons, built to my weight, it became an entirely different and superior ride. It really made a huge difference in handling and confidence when riding the twisties. I wish that upgraded suspension would be a manufacturer/dealer option since no two riders are the same. For me it's always a given that with any bike I buy, I need to add a few thousand more to the cost for the mandatory upgrades I require. I would rather pay more at the dealer and roll that into the financing if I could.
Racetech rebuilt my hayabusa shocks (roadrace setup w gscr1k tail) and im running a 200/60 rear it handles awesome now for what it is.....the rear shock is amazing now. Bike squats on launch & grips great. Whole bike rides nicer w gold valves and properr springs for my 205 weight.
Ari is an amazing teacher, I’d love to see a video explaining how to set up front and rear suspension. We could use your wisdom on that topic, too! As always, top notch video.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that with budget bike stock suspension the damping system is often just oil flowing through a hole with a fixed size. Where-as higher-end suspension has oil flowing through a shim stack or spring loaded valve of some sort. I have not taken apart any shocks, but from what I've observed so far taking apart a few stock forks during upgrades, typically if it is non-adjustable, then it is oil flowing through a fixed size hole. If it is adjustable it typically means there is a shim stack. With the super basic type with the fixed size damping hole, it will always be terrible one way or the other. You either have not enough low-speed damping (bike feels floaty and uncontrolled) or you have too much high-speed damping (bike feels harsh and bucks badly on big bumps). If you want it to be stable and not float but also absorb the bumps, you need the shim stack. It's not only about adjustability but also the ratio of low-speed to high-speed damping.
@@AriH211 Thanks for responding. I looked up and watched your Gold Valve video. I have done exactly that process on a previous bike. It's interesting that the cheap shocks have shim stacks but the cheap forks do not. I was wondering if the cheap shocks have shim stacks, because it sure feels like they have the same flaws as cheap forks. On a Ninja 400 for example, riding it on a bumpy road was bone-jarring harsh before I upgraded it with an Ohlins shock and fork cartridges.
I have experience specifically with Ölins upgrades to stock on multiple bikes. I am *not* a pro-level rider (as is the case with most people that ride) and have 45 years of larger bike experience, about 5 with early experience on small bore only. There is a trade-off with the cost of the upgrade and the performance change delivered by the OEM item. That is correlated with the cost of the bike, not a perfect relationship, but correlated for sure. If the bike it cheap enough to not warrant such an investment, then no performance payoff is big enough. If the bike is so upgraded and expensive to begin with that the cost alone for the upgrade might make sense, the small change in performance may not justify it. So there is a sweet spot where the cost and the benefit are worth it. On the last 1250 GSA bike I put a high end suspension upgrade on for ready adjustability and rough use performance improvement. But during the first trip I took it out on, it failed in the rough (what it is designed to help with) and It turned the trip into an uncomfortable mess with the bike stuck in the highest, stiffest position. I got home ok and got it fixed but then, to be honest, I was never sure I liked it much more than the stock set and felt uncertain that it was solid to really use hard. The bike was to big and unwieldy anyway in my opinion. I sold the bike with both suspension sets and heardtell that, after a year or so, the guy removed the aftermarket suspension and went back to the stock apparently. I have had other bikes that I liked a lot more than that with aftermarket suspension. So it depends and you the particulars in a way that I don’t see how you will know until you try. So, back to the topic, modern high end super trick bikes are probably better than you are unless you are a pro-level rider or have some unusual requirement. So no need to upgrade them, usually. Upgrade yourself. Cheap bikes may not justify the high cost unless, again, something unusual. So no to upgrades on the average. It’s the middle range that calls for serious consideration of upgraded suspension and it’s empirical in my opinion. So you have to be ready to fiddle around and spend money for margins that you may or may not feel are justified in the end. But you might really score, that is very true. Materials and appearance is clearly better with the best aftermarket stuff. If that is a reason enough for you, and they are better in those ways, then that is a legit reason too. Mostly, after chasing advanced suspension tuning since the days when all suspension was terrible (and tires and fueling and ignition and braking, but we all still loved it), I have gotten over the impulse to get the fanciest suspension on modern bikes if I feel safe and comfortable with what I have OEM. Usually. All of this is just my own opinion, no doubt everybody has their own opinion.
Its just hard to spend 800+ on the rear shock and same for fork cartridges on my r3 that only cost $6k. I’m sure it makes a big difference ride wise though, but i’d rather put that money towards a 600
Installing Bitubo suspension front and rear transformed my T120 Bonneville into a much better bike. Able to travel over mildly corrugated pea-gravel roads at 80km/h two-up with absolute confidence, comfort, and control. Just had my CB1300 factory Showa suspension rebuilt, re-valved, and set for weight and riding style by a pro and it’s now a superb handling bike. So yes, good shocks matter. 👍🏻
I have had many bikes and always been happy with stock shocks (Ducati, BMW< Moto Guzzi, Yamaha...) one exception is my Triumph Boneville that had extremely stiff suspensions, front and rear. I changed the rear shocks with YSS, and installed progressive springs in front - amazing that in 2020 Triumph does not not adopt these as OEM.... (Moto Guzzi did it in the 70s already...). Things have improved noticeably. Shame on Triumph though.....
I'm sure you enjoyed drilling into one of those stock shocks :D tbh was exactly the right moment to drop that video, everyday rider here with a 1200 that made 70k miles on the stock suspension. fork springs are already upgraded, rear seems to slowly give up too, lasted long though!
I'm on the lighter end of the scale so most stock shocks are too stiff for me even when I let it all the way out. The bike doesn't even squat when I sit on it. I always have to get after market shocks and fork springs, plus different lighter oil helps too.
From what I have pieced together the range of rider that won't benefit from a aftermarket shock with more granular adjustment is vanishingly small. Even if you aren't planning on keeping a bike for long for one reason or another having that aftermarket shock set will likely allow you to reasonably ask for more when you sell.
YES, YES IT IS, this is NOT a debate! :)) In most cases at least a spring change is in order. This is less true for premium or race bikes as they tend to have proper suspension, but on most bikes some change from stock results in a difference that you will feel. Of course, whether or not it is worth the expense is a different issue. for my k8 1250 Bandit it cost 1100 EUR to change fork cartridges(Bitubo ABB09) and the shock(Nitron R1) but was 100% worth it. I would describe it like this: The bike worked before the suspension change. But after the suspension change it became a calmer ride. Suddenly you didnt get a milion inputs from an unsettled chassis, but more of the feedback you need to understand what your grip levels and the road surface underneath you are.
My 2016 Versys 650 is still running its stock shock. Been good enough for my needs. My height and weight are extremely average though which is a big help.
Exactly the biggest misconception about suspension is that you don't need better one because you don't ride fast or aggressive or track or whatever. That's not the case. The biggest improvement is comfort so ull get improvement regardless of way u ride
@@komalley35 if you have adjustable suspension, even basic units. Take it to a race shop. Its like $80 to have it set up. Everytime i get a bike were off to washington cycles in nj
I have a CRF300L...I manage the rear shock by hyperjacking the preload up and spending alot of time on the pegs. It's bad all round, I can get by but its worst performance is in rebound damping. The tire spins and skitters and bucks me all the time. I *like* a soft suspension typically, as I'm old and beat to hell but this is *really* soft.
Hey the Ohlins on my Moto Guzzi V11 Lemans Rosso Corsa will always be Jewlery even though I don't know how to adjust shocks/springs and just ride the bike. Still being as I'm closer to Lemmy size than Valentino Rossi size the springs are probably a little light.
I misspoke at 5:30 and said the spring rate was "105 kilograms per millimeter." That would be an insanely stiff coil. It's actually a 105 Newton spring, but hey, those are the kind of mistakes you make when you're live filming.
y - you will definitely get the hardtail experience with that spring rate 😂
"105 kilograms per mm"
I guess he installed truck leafsprings into a motorcycle lol
Ari and The Shop Manual is easily one of the best motorcycle-centric "shows" on the internet. Keep educating us, Ari, because you're excellent at it.
also he is so hot, that helps
If Ari and Ryan from F9 put together a show. It would be a massive hit.
@@thamomentumNah, ryan f9 is just an over glorified dude because of the cinematography in their videos. From riding skill, technical stuff, and information delivery, ari and zach are miles better.
Now we need A Shop Manual episode about front suspension.
Nahh….just look up all the old Race Tech videos (anything with Paul Thede). Classic moto damper tech hasn’t changed much in decades.
Check out Superduked. They go through forks in great detail.
I believe he did that first, not that long ago.
Cool, I put race tech on ‘91 750 zephyr. Love them to pieces. By the sounds of things I should have the serviced this winter!
Ari has always been one of the best presenters. Clear, interesting, and easy to understand.
Don't forget to get a popular brand if you plan on keeping the bike. Ohlins, Penske, Nitron are a couple of brands that just about any suspension shop can service. It'll save you tons of headaches and frustration in the future.
Race-Tech is a suspension company based out of SoCal and they offer really good quality kits to make your stock forks function like aftermarket forks for way less money. They also take OEM shocks and turn them into proper working units by installing new vales and re-setting your shim stacks to match your riding skills and needs.
Andreani also makes really nice OEM fork upgrade kits (cartridges) that'll save you a fortune and work amazingly well. I use them on Ducatis.
I have NEVER installed an Ohlins shock and said... damn, I think I spent too much money.
Great feedback. We actually published a video about Race Tech's Gold Valve Emulators not too long ago.
I have Race-Tech front forks and rear suspension on one of my KTM 640 Adventures and will have Ohlins F and R on a 2000 BMW R1150GS I'm picking up in a month or so. Looking forward to see how the Ohlins make that bike handle. The KTM is a laudable ADV BDR rig.
I have told people that many times. Install or buy a high quality product and you rarely say "that was great but I sure wish I had the $1,000 back."
Suspension mods can be expensive, but they’re probably the best return on investment you can make for your bike’s performance.
Nah
Tires
Good tires give you best bang for the buck upgrade
@victoriazero8869 no way
The Shop Manual is one of the most valuable ressources on the Internet :)
That being said: I am pretty sure that it is not 105kg/mm.. that spring wouldn't move at all.
Probably rather 105N/mm
Perhaps. At 6'4", I weigh right at 105 kg myself. I admit I don't know a ton about bike shocks, but if I wanted a super stiff track spring, that number seems ok to me.
@@oramac7237 I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding spring rates here.
@@jasonb6570 Possibly. Like I said, I don't know a ton about how they work.
Likely 1.05kg/mm
@chukku2175 You're correct. I've recently changed the spring on my Ohlins rear shock and the last two digits of the code number on the spring itself tells you the spring rate. As this is a 60293-36 spring, the -36 tells you it's 105N/mm, equivalent to 10.7kg/mm.
A couple years ago, I put a take-off Ohlins on my Ducati 848. I honestly did not expect much, especially on the street, but the combination of comfort and control was eye opening.
I did the same with a K-Tech DDS Lite on my 2016 ZX10R. The Factory Showa BFRC shock wasn't the worst i've ridden, but it severly lacked rebound control. Showa and K-Tech stopped making rebuild kits in 2020, so I ether had to get a newer Showa unit, or an Aftermarket unit. My suspension guy is K-tech, and had been bugging me for a couple years to get a DDS. Once it was on the bike and dialed in, I was amazed how good it is! I also got my elderly dad an Ohlins TTX for his 2013 Concurs 13, and he absolutely loves it, and feels like he can keep riding now (due to the comfort and stability) easily into his 80's.
I'm glad it was an improvement. It all depends on what you're starting with, and lots of bikes have pretty mediocre suspension.
My number one reason for buying from you guys is the youtube channel. Your reasonable prices are a close second.
Put Ohlins shocks and cartridges onto my 2015 FZ-09 and it was like night and day. I run around the 220lbs mark and the stock suspension was scary for my normal but spirited street driving. It would wallow and buck around corners and while stopping. The new suspension tailored to my weight inspired confidence in the corners that previously were sketchy to dive into. Everything felt more planted. It was well worth the money. Now had I weighed just a buck 50 the stock might have been acceptable.
@robertpayne 6960. Yup. And the crap stock tyres didn’t help either.
Exactly the biggest misconception about suspension is that you don't need better one because you don't ride fast or aggressive or track or whatever.
That's not the case. The biggest improvement is comfort so ull get improvement regardless of way u ride
Then the question is how important is comfort? Everything has a price. The fact is that there are hundreds of millions of motorcycles around the world (especially the third world) with garbage suspension.
Comfort is subjective too, so that's basically leaves to whether your suspension is adjustable or not.
@@victoriazero8869 comfort subjective? maybe to some degree, depending on your weight. But you eighter feell sharp jerks or no.
adjustment dont change too much in that regard. usually issue is much deeper, and adjustment, especially on forks changes very little
Suspension directly affects how much traction your tyres can lay down. It is absolutely one of the single biggest performance improvements you can make to a machine in the semi long term basis. correctly set up suspension is making life easier in the most important aspects of motorcycle riding... Cornering, acceleration and brakingm
I cannot emphasize how happy it makes me that Ari uses the term "damping" correctly. Too often people use the word dampening, which is completely wrong.
Linguistically both are correct, however technically 'damping' is _more_ correct because in most institutes that is the word used when talking mass-spring-damper systems.
While I agree, I think this is the kind of case where the "incorrect" term is used more often than the "correct" term, to the extent that the "incorrect" term actually becomes the "correct" term in practice. Not unlike how people have used, e.g., "disinterested" to mean "having lack of interest" -- as opposed to "impartial," which is its true definition -- rather than, correctly, "uninterested," to the point where, now, seemingly "disinterested" is the more "accepted" use to denote the meaning. Or, how "extravert," through mis-usage over time, has now become, firmly entrenched, "extrovert."
Dampenatoring is the way my bwuddah.
Bite the bullet and pull the trigger on the Ohlins TTX GP shock for my 2018 Suzuki GSX-R750. After hearing from friends, it would be a waste of money if I don't take it to the track. It's absolutely wrong... It was a night and day difference for me. Even just for commuting, I felt the difference and love how my bike handles. My only regret is not getting it sooner.
Find a way to get to a track. It's so nice to be able to open your bike up safely and without worrying about all the risks of the road.
That 750 wants it bad.
You spent the money on the suspension. Go enjoy it
@taylor2105 can cost around £2k to go to the track for a day. Is it really worth it ?
Suspension upgrades are the most cost effective improvements you can make. For those of us without an Ohlins/Penske budget there's a good chance to make a significant by swapping in a good sport bike shock. Check forums for your bike, there's likely someone that's already done it.
I have 2 Suzuki Burgman 650 scooters. I am 215 pounds and the scooter is about 600 pounds and i do load it up with camping gear sometimes. Loaded up for a road trip the rear tire would bottom out on the trunk liner hard, even with the preload set on #5.
One is 100% stock sprung and shocked. The other I put a set of Progressive shocks and springs and a RaceTec front Emulator. The upgraded suspension is so much better. I used a set of Progressive "Goldwing 1200" spec shocks and 2 steps stiffer springs in the rear. Up front I used RaceTec 2 steps stiffer springs and Beltec 15W fork oil. With a 150 pound camping load and the preload set on #2 it never bottoms out.
Just changing the springs on my Africa Twin sold me on the importance of proper suspension set up. I’ve since tuned both sides but proper spring set up is honestly the first thing I’ll do to any new bike now, it’s that significant!
I bought a Öhlins for my twenty years old FZ6S and it totally changed the bike. Most probably the old one was already not damping at all. But now, it is just sticked to the ground and steady in the curves also when changing the liad by braking f.e. Best investition!!!
The forks were so bad on my Yamaha FZ-07 that it wasn't even safe to ride agressivley .. what a huge improvement Ohlin Cartridges are .
I have a Buell Ulysses and the shock is fully adjustable and when I tried a friends XB with the Olin’s, I really couldn’t tell the difference, even when pushing hard on bumpy roads. Idk what Erik Buell specified but he nailed it.
Great stuff as always. One more advanced factor is a more sophisticated damping curve on the aftermarket shock. It really is amazing how a Ohlins shock will handle better AND ride smoother over bumps than a stock shock, regardless of whether the stock shock has the "correct" damping and spring.
I got some hands-on training at Ohlins HQ and got to see the massive library of damping options. Literally dozens of shim-stack arrangements for comp/reb with corresponding damping chart for each of the 20+ clicks of adjustment. Those folks like data!
I've have many km on my stock suspension. And it's still giving me a great ride. Why should a pay lots of money. When I've no need to.
The MT-09 has always been known for its "budget" suspension. I knew that when I bought one, and indeed, the suspension was horrible. Because I knew that I had already budgeted for an upgrade: Traxxion Dynamics cartridges for the fork, an Ohlins shock, and springs for my weight. That totally transformed the bike!
Just got a current XSR900. Suspension is awful. I knew I’d be upgrading it, but I didn’t know it was this bad from new! Yamaha had to cut corners somewhere.
@@robertchapman6795 I had the suspension installed during the 600 mile break-in service, but during those 600 miles I almost regretted getting the bike, the stock suspension was that bad.
Do you know if the Ohlins suspension on the Mt 09 SP is much better?
@@MrWolf2212 I would imagine that the suspension on the SP is much better than the base version. But on my bike, the spring rates for the shock the forks are specifically selected to support my weight. The SP does have an Ohlins shock and much better fork internals, but the spring rates are selected by Yamaha presumably for the average rider.
At 6'4", 240lbs, I've swapped my rear shock on most of my bikes -- it's not the cheapest modification, but I realize it's worth every penny. I have sport bikes, cruisers and an adventure bike -- worth it for the comfort changes alone at my size.
Installing a new Cogent Dynamics shock (with an Ohlins spring) was a game changer for my 2019 DR650. That, in conjunction with their springs and drop in damper cartridges for the front end, completely changed the bike for my 200 lb frame (plus riding gear)and is the reason I kept the motorcycle instead of selling it. Best money spent.
Shoutout to Ari!
In most cases,.if u already have fully.adjustible suspension the best thing is to do tune in pro suspension shop instead of throwing lot of cash on ohlins etc. if you don't do tune on those aftermarket components they will work worse than well tuned stock suspension.
Guarantee u it'll be your best spent money on bike
Swapped my Ninja 400s shock with a GSXR600 shock and its a really good difference for only $70 lol
I replaced my front shock on my '12 R1200RT with a Tractive electronic suspension from Ted Porter. It was customized to my weight and is fully rebuildable. No regrets.
I own a Yamaha MT-07. A half year ago, i changed my original Front suspension to some progressive Öhlins springs. This upgrade changed the feeling of the bike completely! From an uncomfortable feeling in fast corners to some knife sharp handling and great feedback! I'm thinking about getting the rear suspension in the future as well. It's worth the bucks!
Excellent video! I'm thinking for me it would be very important to get a motorcycle with fully adjustable shocks or up grade almost any bike because I'm 285 lb 6 feet tall. Definitely outside of average 😢
You don't need to buy Ohlins quality stuff to get a better ride - especially if you're doing work on older bikes. I found a Hagon (UK) shock for $400 USD that was set up for my weight, bike and riding that is fully adjustable and rebuildable. Unlike the stock piece of crap that came off my '87 FZR1000.
Yep, there are affordable adjustable shocks out there, I bought a Hagon unit for a CB500X. MASSIVE improvement since the stock unit is just offensively bad. That being said, that specific Hagon shock doesn't have a fancy roller bearing on the swingarm connection, so there is a noticeable amount of stiction.
Absolutely if it’s properly set up. Some stock shocks are okay and made better by re-springing for your weight too.
Wish I had seen this before my upgrade :) Thank you Ari
Playing with pre-load just messes up static sag, it removes static staging. Then going around a corner, hit a bump, and the rear wheel unloads. Custom spring rate for a ride is a must. Pre-load really should only be adjusted for luggage, and then ride handling is compromised and it is a trade off. Or just go slow around corners and avoid bumps at high speed if you are heavy on stock springs.
You are assuming the sag is set up properly to begin with. That's step one.
Hands down, money I have spent on suspension has been the best bang for the buck on any of my bikes.
Great video. Suspension upgrades are the single biggest (most noticeable) improvement that you can make to a sportbike. Once you do it, you will regret having not done it sooner (street or track)
The only thing I would add to the spring rate is riding ability. Weight alone is not enough to determine spring rate. I ordered suspension, told the manufacturer my weight and riding ability, and spring was still way too soft. They got it wrong. Should have been much stiffer. Now I have to order new stiffer springs.
Depending on the bike and how much you weigh, it is 100% worth it. If i'm bottoming out the shocks on my Harley, clearly, it needs an upgrade or me a downgrade. 🙂
The other thing Ari didnt bring up is how much of a defecit you are in already. If you are on something with a modern shock some adjustability, if you arent doing regular track days, you probably dont need an aftermarket. If you are on something from the 80's, or on something where they went SUPER basic (most low to mid tier Hondas come to mind) then even for basic riding it would be worthwhile to make an upgrade of some kind. That was the real deciding factor for me going up a grade in dual sport/dirt bikes. I was perfecy happy on my little ttr, until riding a buddy's ktm with modern wp stuff. The bump in power was cool, but I was blown away by the difference decent suspension makes.
Ari is the man
That's pretty awesome. I remember when I put an R6 shock on my 2017 rc390. HUGE world of improvement just with that. I eventually bought another one that was modified to take different spring rates, and having that one rebuilt with a valve kit.
Ari breaks it down like no other.
Changed my 2016 390's suspension with ohlins, and also put some andreani in the front. Different bike. Worthed each penny.
Ari, great work. Thanks! You're always killing it.
Thanks for watching!
Well done Ari and ZLA team!
it's crazy how much of a difference a couple of turns, or half turns or even quarter turns can make on a shock, or forks for that matter. I was playing with the idea of having my rear shock replaced and posibly some work on the front suspension until I said ef it, let me play a bit with the settings. Not saying that there aren't people who know what they want and know the limitations of the OEM gear but most normies just leave the stock suspension set as is and then jump to replacement. And there are are a lot of other normies, probably a bit higher on the dunning kruger curve who "expertly" advise the first group to do said change. On a side note, some Shop Manual videos about how to tune the suspension both front and rear, would be great. What does preload/compression/rebound do, what should one feel and in what order should they be tweaked, in what increments, what to look for maybe in terms of bike type and so on ("small" request, I know :)) ).
Saturday morning Ari is the best!
Would love to see a video on adjusting and servicing drum brakes. They're not uncommon on modern 125s, and the new riders owning them need the extra help making maintenance accessible as they get too know their machine
do they need help and guidance with tying shoes too?? honestly the best investment anyone can make with a motorcycle they intend to keep is to acquire a service manual.
Please do this, my bike has no manual so I have to work things out based on similar models painstakingly sometimes, gee thanks honda :P 4 hours to find out where and how to order an oem oil filter was bad enough, not looking forward to needing to do this. For anyone in the uk, fowlers is the best dealer I've found.
Great contribution Ari and team! I’ve got an amazing ‘05 GS that was upgraded to Öhlins at some point. The bike rides wonderfully comfy and controlled. Will bookmark this. Bret Tkacs did a good one a couple years ago where he had an engineer demonstrate how the nitrogen and oil cooperate, yes these components are worth it.
I'm a bigger guy(6'2" - 260#) I've always found stock suspension on any bike I've ridden to be sub par for sure. I currently have a Triumph Speed Twin 1200. When I upgraded the front and rear to Nitrons, built to my weight, it became an entirely different and superior ride. It really made a huge difference in handling and confidence when riding the twisties.
I wish that upgraded suspension would be a manufacturer/dealer option since no two riders are the same. For me it's always a given that with any bike I buy, I need to add a few thousand more to the cost for the mandatory upgrades I require. I would rather pay more at the dealer and roll that into the financing if I could.
Racetech rebuilt my hayabusa shocks (roadrace setup w gscr1k tail) and im running a 200/60 rear it handles awesome now for what it is.....the rear shock is amazing now. Bike squats on launch & grips great. Whole bike rides nicer w gold valves and properr springs for my 205 weight.
If you are due replacement, well... A quality adjustable suspension unit is going to be a magnificent change to what you have.
Ari is an amazing teacher, I’d love to see a video explaining how to set up front and rear suspension. We could use your wisdom on that topic, too!
As always, top notch video.
Thanks Ari! Another great episode of TSM!
Thank you Ari, great work and a smooth delivery. I've been following you and Zack since the Motor trend days.
I LOVE THE SHOP MANUAL
Yay he’s back!
Spring rate is the key. Damping and the general quality/performance of the shock makes very little difference, most would never notice.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that with budget bike stock suspension the damping system is often just oil flowing through a hole with a fixed size. Where-as higher-end suspension has oil flowing through a shim stack or spring loaded valve of some sort. I have not taken apart any shocks, but from what I've observed so far taking apart a few stock forks during upgrades, typically if it is non-adjustable, then it is oil flowing through a fixed size hole. If it is adjustable it typically means there is a shim stack. With the super basic type with the fixed size damping hole, it will always be terrible one way or the other. You either have not enough low-speed damping (bike feels floaty and uncontrolled) or you have too much high-speed damping (bike feels harsh and bucks badly on big bumps). If you want it to be stable and not float but also absorb the bumps, you need the shim stack. It's not only about adjustability but also the ratio of low-speed to high-speed damping.
Shocks have shim stacks, even the cheap ones. We addressed the orifice-damping issue in a previous video, about installing Gold Valve Emulators.
@@AriH211 Thanks for responding. I looked up and watched your Gold Valve video. I have done exactly that process on a previous bike. It's interesting that the cheap shocks have shim stacks but the cheap forks do not. I was wondering if the cheap shocks have shim stacks, because it sure feels like they have the same flaws as cheap forks. On a Ninja 400 for example, riding it on a bumpy road was bone-jarring harsh before I upgraded it with an Ohlins shock and fork cartridges.
Thankfully I am the exact "average" people think of, so everything fits me. I'm 5'10 160-170lbs with an athletic build
I have experience specifically with Ölins upgrades to stock on multiple bikes. I am *not* a pro-level rider (as is the case with most people that ride) and have 45 years of larger bike experience, about 5 with early experience on small bore only. There is a trade-off with the cost of the upgrade and the performance change delivered by the OEM item. That is correlated with the cost of the bike, not a perfect relationship, but correlated for sure. If the bike it cheap enough to not warrant such an investment, then no performance payoff is big enough. If the bike is so upgraded and expensive to begin with that the cost alone for the upgrade might make sense, the small change in performance may not justify it. So there is a sweet spot where the cost and the benefit are worth it. On the last 1250 GSA bike I put a high end suspension upgrade on for ready adjustability and rough use performance improvement. But during the first trip I took it out on, it failed in the rough (what it is designed to help with) and It turned the trip into an uncomfortable mess with the bike stuck in the highest, stiffest position. I got home ok and got it fixed but then, to be honest, I was never sure I liked it much more than the stock set and felt uncertain that it was solid to really use hard. The bike was to big and unwieldy anyway in my opinion. I sold the bike with both suspension sets and heardtell that, after a year or so, the guy removed the aftermarket suspension and went back to the stock apparently. I have had other bikes that I liked a lot more than that with aftermarket suspension. So it depends and you the particulars in a way that I don’t see how you will know until you try. So, back to the topic, modern high end super trick bikes are probably better than you are unless you are a pro-level rider or have some unusual requirement. So no need to upgrade them, usually. Upgrade yourself. Cheap bikes may not justify the high cost unless, again, something unusual. So no to upgrades on the average. It’s the middle range that calls for serious consideration of upgraded suspension and it’s empirical in my opinion. So you have to be ready to fiddle around and spend money for margins that you may or may not feel are justified in the end. But you might really score, that is very true. Materials and appearance is clearly better with the best aftermarket stuff. If that is a reason enough for you, and they are better in those ways, then that is a legit reason too. Mostly, after chasing advanced suspension tuning since the days when all suspension was terrible (and tires and fueling and ignition and braking, but we all still loved it), I have gotten over the impulse to get the fanciest suspension on modern bikes if I feel safe and comfortable with what I have OEM. Usually. All of this is just my own opinion, no doubt everybody has their own opinion.
The best. Keep on doing this. Love from India🇮🇳
I don't even own a bike but I love the content. Thanks for doing what you do. ✊🤙
You're welcome!
Thanks Ari! Great episode full of new to me information I really appreciate it
Its just hard to spend 800+ on the rear shock and same for fork cartridges on my r3 that only cost $6k. I’m sure it makes a big difference ride wise though, but i’d rather put that money towards a 600
Very helpful and interesting. I really value this type of content.
Thankful for you and your expertise. Keep up the good work ! Cheers !!
Installing Bitubo suspension front and rear transformed my T120 Bonneville into a much better bike. Able to travel over mildly corrugated pea-gravel roads at 80km/h two-up with absolute confidence, comfort, and control. Just had my CB1300 factory Showa suspension rebuilt, re-valved, and set for weight and riding style by a pro and it’s now a superb handling bike. So yes, good shocks matter. 👍🏻
I have had many bikes and always been happy with stock shocks (Ducati, BMW< Moto Guzzi, Yamaha...) one exception is my Triumph Boneville that had extremely stiff suspensions, front and rear. I changed the rear shocks with YSS, and installed progressive springs in front - amazing that in 2020 Triumph does not not adopt these as OEM.... (Moto Guzzi did it in the 70s already...). Things have improved noticeably. Shame on Triumph though.....
I'm sure you enjoyed drilling into one of those stock shocks :D
tbh was exactly the right moment to drop that video, everyday rider here with a 1200 that made 70k miles on the stock suspension. fork springs are already upgraded, rear seems to slowly give up too, lasted long though!
Yes. Max Mcalister at traction dynamics installed his shock on my Honda Goldwing now it rides and handles better . Rides like a sport bike
I keep looking forward to these videos. Thanks, Ari!
I'm on the lighter end of the scale so most stock shocks are too stiff for me even when I let it all the way out. The bike doesn't even squat when I sit on it. I always have to get after market shocks and fork springs, plus different lighter oil helps too.
Ari is back. 🎉🎉
It would also be nice to know how to make the best out of a limited stock suspension setup
changing the spring rates to fit me was the most noticeable upgrade ive ever done, aside from heated grips!
New Shop Manual Episode!
More Ari and Shop Manual :) He is the best
From what I have pieced together the range of rider that won't benefit from a aftermarket shock with more granular adjustment is vanishingly small. Even if you aren't planning on keeping a bike for long for one reason or another having that aftermarket shock set will likely allow you to reasonably ask for more when you sell.
I changed the oil in my front fork of my 2015 Honda CB300 to a different viscosity to make it stiffer.
As a Harley rider, the answer is YES. Always YES.
YES, YES IT IS, this is NOT a debate! :))
In most cases at least a spring change is in order. This is less true for premium or race bikes as they tend to have proper suspension, but on most bikes some change from stock results in a difference that you will feel.
Of course, whether or not it is worth the expense is a different issue. for my k8 1250 Bandit it cost 1100 EUR to change fork cartridges(Bitubo ABB09) and the shock(Nitron R1) but was 100% worth it.
I would describe it like this:
The bike worked before the suspension change.
But after the suspension change it became a calmer ride. Suddenly you didnt get a milion inputs from an unsettled chassis, but more of the feedback you need to understand what your grip levels and the road surface underneath you are.
Commenting for support!
How about a video teaching us how to adjust suspensions? Thanks Ari!!
The best way to start a day!
Ari is the best!
Informative and entertaining, as always. Thanks Ari.
Appreciate the comment, thanks for watching.
My 2016 Versys 650 is still running its stock shock. Been good enough for my needs. My height and weight are extremely average though which is a big help.
Its good until you get good suspension and have it set up. Then youre like "HOLY COW"
Your bike will feel 100lbs lighter
@@piotrplewa1889 probably right. Ignorance is bliss.
Exactly the biggest misconception about suspension is that you don't need better one because you don't ride fast or aggressive or track or whatever.
That's not the case. The biggest improvement is comfort so ull get improvement regardless of way u ride
@@komalley35 if you have adjustable suspension, even basic units. Take it to a race shop. Its like $80 to have it set up.
Everytime i get a bike were off to washington cycles in nj
This is definitely going to be my next purchase
He's out here doing the lords work.
Nice video
I purchased Ohlins for my BMer
I liked the oem originals better
TL;DR: yes, but it doesn’t have to be Ohlins. There are less expensive options that work nearly as well.
Please do another ASMR rebuild video Ari!
I bought YSS rear shock for my MT07 for $320 half the price of Ohlins and just as good 👍
Excellent and informative reportage great job cant wait for another Vidéo ❤
Side idea put aftermarket shocks on the Wing-ebago and show the difference in avoiding low speed tank slappers.
Looking forward to a front suspension episode. Well done.
I have a CRF300L...I manage the rear shock by hyperjacking the preload up and spending alot of time on the pegs. It's bad all round, I can get by but its worst performance is in rebound damping. The tire spins and skitters and bucks me all the time. I *like* a soft suspension typically, as I'm old and beat to hell but this is *really* soft.
2:00
I'm by the book average rider of 80kg.
None of the stock suspensions I had worked well. It's just they're crap
Hey the Ohlins on my Moto Guzzi V11 Lemans Rosso Corsa will always be Jewlery even though I don't know how to adjust shocks/springs and just ride the bike. Still being as I'm closer to Lemmy size than Valentino Rossi size the springs are probably a little light.