Can Dave Diagnose This Almost New Unsafe Stihl Chainsaw? - Video
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มี.ค. 2021
- Can Dave Diagnose This Almost New Unsafe Stihl Chainsaw?
An almost new STIHL MS291 chainsaw recently arrived in the shop because it is unsafe to use. I am putting my apprentice Dave to the test with this one!
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Easy to follow and thorough step by step tutorials do it yourself (DIY) to help you with your broken lawn and garden equipment including snowblowers.
I do my best to teach you how to easily diagnose problems the fastest, quickest and most efficient way with real repairs beyond just replacing a spark plug. These tips are for both the homeowner and shop owner.
Whether it be a handheld, two stroke, two cycle engine like a chainsaw, weed eater, weed wacker, string trimmer, grass trimmer, line trimmer, hedge trimmer, strimmer, brush cutter, leaf blower, or four stroke, four cycle units like a lawnmower, wood splitter, lawn tractor, snowblower, pressure washer, generator or a ride on mower that needs parts installed or replaced, I’m your go-to guy.
My favorite brands of spark plugs are NGK and Champion and are the ones I recommend.
I’ve been a small engine mechanic for many decades and also run my own repair shop so my videos are loaded with tips and tricks that I have learned and want to share with you. You will also find many tool and product reviews from top brands on my channel as well.
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Due to factors beyond the control of DONYBOY73 “The Small Engine Doctor”, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. DONYBOY73 “The Small Engine Doctor” assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. DONYBOY73 “The Small Engine Doctor” recommends safe practices when working with power tools, hand tools, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of DONYBOY73 “The Small Engine Doctor”, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not DONYBOY73 “The Small Engine Doctor".
#donyboy73 #stihlchainsaw #apprentice - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Watch Dave diagnosing a new non running MS261 Stihl chainsaw here;
th-cam.com/video/z6V2Dk-ceko/w-d-xo.html
Watch Donyboy73 Teach Dave how to fix a Stihl TS500i cut-off saw here;
th-cam.com/video/mLygG5oqimM/w-d-xo.html
Pouring oil without a funnel and pretty much dont miss a single drop is a gift i do not have.
Do it enough and you get good at it. Practice makes perfect.
Ms250 bar oil blowing it out
Wooo! Thanks for having me on Donny! Can’t wait for your next test!!!!
👍👍👍👍👍👍🤠
You did great Dave! Very interesting videos with you and Dony!👍
@@rogermcdonald1607 yup 👍
Great diagnosis Dave. My initial thought was that the spark arrester had been removed. I forget though if that is evident with the muffler attached. Anyway, great step-by-step walk-thru. I learned more on how the brake handle functions as well, which is awesome! Thanks again.
@@carlmiller1034 yup 👍
There is a reason why you are still in business after many years. Doing repairs the proper way makes the difference. 👍👍👍👍
and avoid lawsuits!
@@donyboy73 Yes the best customers are un- injured customers 😉
I'm not a very good small engine mechanic. But everytime I watch your videos I learn something useful in case I ever do work on small engines.
Thank you for dropping knowledge and showing us the steps. It's a great feeling to go to a place on the internet and get good solid information. Certainly do appreciate all the work you put into these videos and for having an apprentice. A lot a guys are selfish, and they take it to the grave. You're sharing the wealth of your experience and skill. It takes a strong man to do that. Mahalo!
These videos are great, Don. Don't know if you are planning more 'Can Dave Diagnose' episodes, but if you are, that would be terrific. I am learning so much from them.
we are, thanks for watching!
@@donyboy73 Excellent!
I DID learn something today. I don't work on chainsaws too often but never knew about checking the brake first.
I thought that this video would be boring, but it wasn't. Dave has a great teacher (and Dave is a bright apprentice).
I'm a fairly new Stihl chainsaw owner. This is very helpful information and certainly increase my knowledge in maintaining and repairing my chainsaw. Great job!.
Thank you, just bought a new 261 cm. Easy to inspect when cleaning the saw. That could save a headache. Nice job by the two saw techs.
Great to hear!
A marvelous “what did it” instead of “who done it”. Great job on another learning video :-)
Thanks Carl!
Glad you liked it!
My first saw I ever acquired suffered a similar fate. I’m still amazed that people will spend good money on a great product and not spend 10 minutes to review the owners manual. Well done guys.
Good job Dave. I am always amazed to see what people do to their equipment.
Hey Brian! Thanks! It is something, isn't it?
Don you are a very good instructor. I usually learn something from your videos. I rarely run my chainsaw but I’m going to check the brake today.
I think you’ve got a winner with Dave, Dony!
he's awesome!
Thanks Tony!
Would not have thought you could do this since I immediately release the brake after it is running! Don’t think I will try this at home!
Thank You Dony and Dave for sharing!
Thanks Jim!!!
Excellent! Kudos to both of you. And to all who missed the problem but realized “safety first!”
Thanks Jim!
It would have been nice if a estimate for the total repair was included versus a price of a new one.
Larry moore/ "an estimate"
It seems like they should stop using plastic in critical areas whether it's a "homeowner" saw or " Pro".
Love the videos guys, they have
Helped me tremendously keeping
My chainsaws, lawn and garden gas
Powered equipment in top condition.
Good day. I had the same problem, I think. I found 170 in dump, looked like new . Mechanic put used clutch on & chain , everything works great. Thanks good video.
Cheers Don!
Great video, I learned a lot. All my chainsaws are so old they do not have chain brakes, my bad.
Always like watching you Dony and Dave analyzing a job. Great stuff thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Really enjoyed your video. It made me realize that there are always new things to learn. Also very impressed with Dave and his teacher. Dave for his problem solving skills and general communication abilities and Don for his teaching skills. Don's approach reminded me of how an experienced Science teacher would handle this. He did not just give the answers, but instead forced the learner through questioning to come up with the answers. Don also showed a lot of patience and insight in this exchange. Excellent episode and I look forward to more like this.
Safety is number 1. I will not let anything out of my shop ,especially rideon mowers when a customer tells me to just bypass a switch instead of replacing it. Major liability issue. Excellent video 👍
I agree 100%
Thats good to know you are dealing with a good reputable shop glad i showed up for class today. Lol
Thx for sharing . New knowledge for me today thanks for makin the video! I dont even have a chainsaw yet, but it was very interesting for me👍👍
I ran a saw successfully for years without reading a manual . Bought a new saw, the first thing I did was read the manual! I learned things I did not know previously, mainly around proper maintenance.
well that was interesting to see the proof in the pudding of what I had re\ad in the manual about not revving with the brake on, and the use of a tool to check chain if moves or not.
Thanks bunches Donyboy and Dave. So much appreciated.
Cheers Paul!!!
Great vid guys. Was doing a bit of piston sanding todày Dave on a blower. Ended up with 145psi. Light damage on cylinder and rings. Piston skirt had bad damage.Polished it after sanding it with wire brush on drill. Had good compression when I bought it and didn't remove muffler. It was cheap for reason.
Nice work!
I started cutting 50 years ago when there was no such thing as a chain break. I do not use them as much as other folks, because I don’t use them like folks that grew up with them. About the only time I use them is when Incrank up a saw to let it warm up. Then, I turn them on and let them sit on the ground to idle and warm up. I will also turn them on when the saw is not in my hands and is running, otherwise the chain break is turned off. I don’t start a saw with the break on. It makes them harder to start when you are cranking 70+cc saws, as I usually do.
Not only a great mentor but a great student. You don't find that combination often anymore. Instead of stickers, I have this daughter that still lives at home.....
Bought a used saw once that was basically brand new and fired right up. Got it home and realized the chain brake didn’t work. It looked exactly the same inside. I’m guessing he got the quote to fix it and bought a new one and passed it on to me as a saw “he really didn’t need anymore” 🤦♂️ great video guys
That was really enjoyable! Learnt a lot from this video thanks! 😎
Thanks for the info!!! I'm learning alot from your channel!
Cheers SheepDog!
Dave you chose the right guy to apprentice for! Donny is my go too guy for all my small engine needs! When viewers click on a channel title they are looking for answers without spending hours listening to babble that has nothing to do with the video! Donny is all information & technique. I especially like that he tells you what tools and size to use and part numbers! Too many ahh and umm videos explaining things half assed! Good job Dave!
Great video. When ever I pulled the clutch hub or replaced the spur sprocket or rim sprocket , I would always replace the clutch bearing. The rollers are metal but the cages are plastic. If a clutch bearing goes the needles can go at a angle on the crankshaft and destroy it.
Cheep insurance for couple of dollars
In this case the saw was shot. Proper training at the point of sale can avoid this at the still dealership. Just my 2 cents.
Congrats Dave! I learned a lot as well as a DYI-er!
Right on!
Don, I would pay money to just sit and listen to the stories you could tell about all the issues that are brought to you in your shop! 👍
Wow, thank you
Don is one of the best. Integrity, straight shooter, great attitude, great repairs, always puts the customer first.
I can't imagine the lack of experience a person would have to have to run a saw with the chain brake on. It immediately bogs, and the chain doesn't move. Probably never ran a chainsaw in his/her life to burn up the brake/clutch/drum/plastic like they did.
thanks Mike!
Enjoy training along with Dave. Very informative! Quick question. The stihl dealer suggested using the ultra oil in my ms170. I noticed the mixture was a lighter almost amber color, not the usual bluish color. Is this normal for the ultra mix? Thank you
I did this to a brand new MS170. As an engineer (but newbie to the chain brake), I expected far more from the brake system. It's a very poor design that can be destroyed within minutes by a customer. And being able to destroy the entire engine housing is just plain stupid. At a non destructive level of heat, you could be distorting the housing and throwing your crank bearings off axis. At least on the pro saws, you can replace $14 worth of plastic and a brake band. Oh, yeah, forgot the needle bearing as well with the stupid plastic cage. These saws really should have a hard thermal cutoff which closes the kill circuit. I think another 50 cents could be absorbed by the marketing people, even on a $199 saw model.
Ok, limit for use of "stupid" has been reached. Great video !
You are a very good teacher Don, i appreciate and i am a very happy subscriber to your channel. I learn a lot from you its a simple channel to learn.
Hey Marcel! He is a great teacher. I am learning lots.
Wow, thanks
that crank seal might have over heated as well . might be a problem down the road
yes it could have!
I loved how you practically threw the saw towards Dave, then later threw the wrench, the comedy is excellent in this one. Yes, Dave, don't lose Don's screws, or you'll be screwed LOL! Boy oh boy, another brand new saw damaged, because users, can't be bothered to read the operating manual. Please don't send the clip to the moon and back lol. I am really proud of Dave, he's turned into an excellent mechanic already. I am not a Stihl dealer, so even I learned something in this video. Awesome video, I really loved it! :)
Hey Stellar! Thanks again for the continued support. I'm glad you picked up on the humour. Cheers!
thanks stellar!
That was the first thing that came to my mind when I read this.If I didn't know how to work on my own saws,and I lived in Canada,I'd trust Dave to work on my stuff now :D
This was so helpful. Thank you so much!
Great person to teach he is willing to listen and learn
Dony your a great instructor! Dave you are a fantastic apprentice, able to learn and be molded into a master. Learn everything you can from Dony. Remember learning never ends.
Wow, thanks
Good show guys. Dave is lucky to be training with Don.
Also I’m starting to think there is a lot of people out there buying saws that have never been around any saws before...lol, aye.
yes too many and it's dangerous!
Another very god Video. A very good Teacher and Student. Thank You.
Quite funny really, 40 plus years ago I was ripping slabs with an 090 equipped with a 42" bar and it had no "safety" brake, it also had no cut off switch and we had to choke it to stop it. It also had no muffler and the handle bars were held together with fencing wire. This was the saw I learned on working with a bushman who was one of Australia's champion axemen. He was a rough old guy and I did learn how not do do many things!
When you pour, turn container sideways to have a smooth flow and less mess or turn opening to top and pour
I caught that too, impressive indeed. Not a single drop of chain oil spilled, makes me question my abilities here. After all it is possible.
I was thinking the same thing! You figure that out after your first glob dumps all over the place. I was waiting for Donny to ask Dave if there was a better way to do that!
Good going Dave! Good to pass your mentors test. I wouldn't have thought the whole housing would need to be replaced. Gus i would have caught the break thogh.
There’s one way, and the right way!
Right on!
Very good videos.thank you.
Excellent information and instruction!!!!
Great job Dave got a sticker! I allways ask my surgeons if I get a cookie if I do well!
Potential injury (of anyone, not just me) isn't worth the little bit of money saved. I'd go with the Stihl authorised recommendation for sure.
That crank would've got that hot the temper would've changed!
Good video dony, well-done Dave!
Great point!
Thank you Gentlemen for the video , always learning new things . May God bless you .
Our pleasure!
Cheers Gigi!
Dave deserves an A...great video !, thumbs up
Thanks Skid!
he got stickers!
Hey guys. Thanks for this Video 👍 Often you can see this mistake on hobby-users chainsaws. Also a chain mounted in the wrong direction is a favourite version...🤣
Greetings from germany, Stefan
greetings from Canada!
Thanks for watching Bungi81! I always look for your comments!
@@DavesSmallEngines
Hi Dave. Thanks a lot😉 I think, learning never ends in a life. And for all of us who is doing this wrenching on chainsaws and other stuff it‘s very interesting to see, how other people are working on common projects. Sometimes there are only small tricks that makes the own work much easier...🤣👍
Another excellent video. Thanks to both of you.
Thanks again!
Love your videos! P.S. I will buy that saw as a parts sale. 😄
I have been watching your channel for a while. I own 6 Stihl chainsaws and enjoy working on my saws. I'm retired and looking for an educational class or course for chainsaw repair. Do you have any recommendations on where a guy could get some training? Thanks in advance.
I guy can really appreciate a thorough and expecting high quality repairs.
Great video guys. I have never seen that before that really got hot.
Thanks Nash!
You have the BEST how to video's out there. Help. I have a stihl ms391. No spark. Replaced ignition coil and wires. Still no spark. Used business card for gap. The old ignition wires were damaged. Still no spark. Any thoughts?
do you have spark with coil switch wire disconnected?
This chainsaw is one of the models that the oil pump isn't connected to the clutch drum. So this saw can have the chain turns backwards when sharpening. Dueto the fact the clutch drum spins freely until the clutch spins fast enough to grab the drum.
Would you do a pressure vacuum test to see if the crankshaft seal on the clutch side was damaged?
Love the information on your channel.
My guess was the brake as soon as you said it was a safety issue preventing its release.
I have worked on one very similar to that stihl (might have even been the same model..can't remember) but it got so hot it even started to melt the crank seal.
Top job, great vid. Cheers Donyboy and Dave.
Thanks fixit!
thanks!
Before I watch the whole thing, my guess is Chain break won't work.
Edit: Bingo!!
That's what I was thinking too when Don said it was unsafe.
@@wg4405 When I worked at a shop, the owner would not allow us to work on saws that didn't have chain breaks. We weren't even allowed to diagnose them, even if it was just bad gas. Liability is #1 in this trade, especially for big corps.
@@wg4405 all my saws except my 385xp don't have chain brakes
That was my first thought as well to check it before even starting it.
Awesome video and great job diagnosing that saw Dave, your apprentice is doing very well Don! It's unfortunate about that brand new saw, that someone ran it with the brake on and melted it.
Thanks Wildefox! I have a good teacher.
Thanks 👍
Thank you very much I got smarter today.thank you for sharing
That’s awesome! Thanks for watching!!!
I would also recommend replacing the crank seal. That kinda of temp generated, most certainly was transfered both inward an outward.
Thus meaning that the crank itself most likely heated up and did minor damage to the crank seal.
As such that the seals are a plasticine rubber mix, you can bet that its minorly damaged at the minimum.
You are 100% correct at 11:15 Don
right on Fill!
Good information. I have the same saw. Was that one worth fixing once you factor in the labour. Cheers.
Donyboy73, I never cease to be amazed at the sheer scale of your knowledge and professionalism. I am sure that Dave realizes just how lucky he is to be learning from you!
And a safety FYI. The housing has molded in protrusions like single steps around the band. These position the brake band at the proper height relative to the drum. When the clutch / drum / band heat up, most of the melted mess from these little steps ends up smeared on the brake band. You can Dremel or Xacto knife them out but can't count on the brake band being held so it's free when the brake is off.
Nice video, have a question, do you fix 2 cycle lawn boy lawnmower’s once in a while 2 stroke Engine oil do you recommend for not just for lawn boy’s but any 2 cycle
I have had several come into my shop like that. Only on customer wanted to argue that I should do the just the brake band. I explained the issues to humans why the case needed replaced. He took his saw to another shop. Was back 2 days later to buy a new saw. Left me his old one for parts.
id just run it without brake old saws didnt ever have them for factory
The MS291 goes to high revs once it first starts due to the double choke system. I use an MS291 as a pro user, great saw for the last three years.
Any issues at all?
Hi Dave, not one problem with my MS291 in the past three years. I do look after it as it's my tool for work.
The saws I use don't even have a chain brake. They are a good safety tool though.
Lesson I've learned- ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have the right shaped carb adjustment tool in my back pocket or close when starting a saw I know nothing about. Worked on a older husq. awhile back that once I started I couldn't get shut off and I knew engaging the brake would burn it up. When it started this saw ran WIDE OPEN. The killswitch wouldn't work and it couldn't be bogged down. Turns out the wire on the laminates had been crimped into inside the cover. It affected the current (which was why it ran like it wanted to explode) and prevented the killswitch from working. I've mentioned that particular saw in many posts because it taught me several different lessons and a saw running like it did can make you uncomfortable very quickly. Luckily I had the 3/8 screw driver I use for most carbs on me and was quick enough to screw in the jets and stop the fuel feed which I can't lie was scary with the way it was running.
BTW Dave seems like a good young man. Nice to see younger people who appreciate the knowledge others have a gained.
I never heard of putting the brake on before starting it. Some poulan / craftsman saws will not start with it on.
I am a 2nd generation sharpener and small engine repair person. My dad taught me everything and also I took a Foley-Belsaw at home class. Before, I didn’t know why what I did to fix it worked 😬
I am a one person shop. I wish I could be your apprentice for awhile.
Some Jonsereds saws shut off the ignition when the brake is activated.
dont scratch n sniff those stickers !
great video, really appreciate the diagnosis stuff.
Thanks Blaffman!
I new it was the break at the beginning.
dave videos are the best ones
Last summer - my brother and I were working at the Family farm. He had a STIL - and he used HIS gas. He ran out and I grabbed a jug from years ago - Honest - the saw would not start - we poured the gas out onto wood and lit our evening fire. I had an hour till the gas station was closed. I ran down - 20 miles away - and bought Prem Fuel - and the saw that would not start - went back to running just fine - with good fuel and his engine oil - Stil - as he said - THEY make stuff that makes their gear run - so I follow that! I have to agree - having seen it for myself.
Holy cow! Excellent video again. Thank you
Thanks Sue!
@@DavesSmallEngines THANKS SUE!
Good job Dave you have a great teacher take care
More good advice. Thank you.
Cheers!
Thanks Guys always learn a lot from these videos- anymore coming up on the 261 mine is stalling when chain brakes applied clutch/cover/bearing all replaced with genuine parts?
Sounds like the clutch is sticking. I am waiting on parts for the one we did the video on. I'll be doing a full repair video on my channel and then Don and I will do an in person follow up here on his! Cheers!
check clutch springs
Thanks for the reply guys- it’s a new clutch with springs from stihl but there is still movement in the clutch cover so when the brake is applied the engine cuts out
my suspicions are the old cage bearing has worn the crankshaft very slightly- I’ve heard this is a thing?
Your videos are awesome! What was the comment at the beginning of the video about firewood and topping up the oil?
always make sure you don't run out of bar oil before gas in your saw or you'll wear out bar and chain and pump quickly
@@donyboy73 Got it - thanks!
always like your teaching technique
Glad to hear that!
I used to sell Homelite chain saws. We had a customer come in complaining that the saw was a piece of junk. The engine was going so fast that the chain was always turning and the saw didn't cut worth a darn.
Turned out he had noticed a screw on the carb (idle screw) that looked loose so he tightened it. Also he managed to install the chain backwards which is why it wouldn't cut.
Luckily the drive sprocket wasn't damaged so all was well in the end.
All that could have been avoided if he had just read the owners manual.
Great information thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Dave did a great job in his diagnosis. Only one question I have, why is that RC plane still sitting in the top section of the toolbox that has been there for months? Must not be using any tools from the top tray. Time to hang that fuselage from the ceiling and free up the captive tool box. Smiles. Again, you both are doing a great job and I hope your duo is picked up by more craftsman putting apprentices under their wings. Great learning experience for both the apprentice and the viewers. Two thumbs up.
Thank you Ron!
hi Ron I have no time to fly!