Beware Of Stihl Chainsaw Factory Reject Cylinder Kits! Teaching Apprentice Dave! - Video
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 เม.ย. 2021
- Beware Of Chainsaw Factory Reject Cylinder Kits! Teaching Apprentice Dave!
Recently my apprentice Dave ran into an issue after purchasing an oem Stihl MS261M chainsaw cylinder kit!
In this video Dave explains what happened and donyboy73 tells him why!
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Brand Neused. The stihl dealer, the guy buys his defective saws from, could be shut down it they get caught by Stihl. All factory defects or warrantied parts are to be kept for 3 months and then disposed of, not resold. Stihl says to keep the parts/machines for 3 months just in case they want you to send the product back. It's tough to throw something away and I know most dealers do business out the back end with defective/warrantied parts/machines.
This makes total sense. Thanks Fill!
Most factories keep a tight lid on this stuff. They scrap it to protect their reputation. Definitely something fishy going on.
Yep the shop mechanics take them home and fix them
Then sale on marketplace or other sites
That I know for a fact 😢😢😢
It depends on the rep , some will have you take a slag to them and totally destroy them 😢😢😢
I would avoid that seller in the future just to be safe. Thanks for sharing so other people will know. Daves video turned out great!
Hey Nash! I will for sure! Cheers.
4:23 if he was buying new saws to strip and resell as parts, then he knew what it looked like. 2:05
Agreed, wonder how the guy would like it if the payment had some holes in it.
Love seeing you guys together!! Don your a great teacher I’ve learn much over the years thanks 🏴
There is one word for you guys and that is GENUINE !! I am in my 70,s and have sithl chainsaws and always do my own repairs. Found your channel and BOTH of you are GOOD!! Thankyou for all your videos and the ones to come ! Stay Safe!!
Wow, thanks!
Hey Thomas! Thanks for the really kind words. We really appreciate it. There is enough negativity and bad energy out in the world right now, we try to focus on the good - and thats sentiment like yours. Cheers!
I love the channel and the everything you guys put out. Giving that Ebay seller the benefit of the doubt is probably the most Canadian thing ever.
we try!
@@donyboy73 How to use it after this repair? how much oil? how long to work to give her time to cool down?
Very interesting! Another channel I watch uses the $33 top end kits found on eBay. He was mystified why they were only lasting about a year, and showed putting in kit #3. Lack of QC and inferior materials probably?
Great video guys, really excellent work, always enjoy your content. For what they are charging for the parts I think they should be much better quality and I’m talking about the manufacturer
Hey Guys, love the video. I'm an engineer who used to work for Stihl's largest (Swedish) competitor. What you're looking at on that piston is called porosity. Aluminum is particularly prone to it and it generally comes from the fact that when the molten aluminum is solidifying the material shrinks which can create small voids in the casting. Another source of porosity is trapped air or gasses in the mold. Often times it's an indicator that the mold is getting worn, the die caster is running the mold too fast, or the injection pressure is too low. For chainsaw pistons as long as the porosity isn't large enough or linked together enough to allow a leak it's generally not a major problem, but your piston looks like a pretty bad example. If your source is tearing new Stihl chainsaws down for parts he may be getting units that were scrapped by the factory (or dealer) due to quality issues. If that's the case he's probably not getting them through strictly legal means because Stihl would not want those units making it into the wild, even for parts.
thanks Eric!
Thanks for the help diagnosing Don! I’m sending it back.
Something fishy going on there wonder if stihl know about what is going on with their rejected parts that is my opinion
@@logman6656I imagine Stihl would never allow this to happen!
@@donyboy73 The top of the reject piston was stamped, I don't think Stihl would do that on a good one. I would expect most reject parts would go back in the melting post and reused. I agree that very fishy and Stihl should be very interested.
That shows the character of a man, he's willing to give someone parts that he could have made money off of himself.
I own 2 sthil saws that running fine so far after 10 or so years ,don’t think I need to rebuild any of them in near future but I’m confident that if I have to your vid’s will be in my arsenal 👍🏼
You guys make a great team,just subscribed to Dave’s channel he is learning from a good teacher.Thank you for sharing
Awesome! Thank you!
Thank you kindly! We are a great team!
Fascinating! Like watching a mystery! Well done, and a great topic!
More to come!
Thanks!!!
Lovely stuff and knowledge Don Desjardins and Dave you lovely Roosters
I'm surprise that Stihl doesn't destroy rejected parts to prevent something like this. Stunts like this can tarnish their name.
The seller was probably supposed to destroy them but sold them instead.
Happy I'm not the only one who can't pass up on a free/cheap saw revival. Never needed one of those +50 saws I've done, but it warms my heart that they get to pull chips again.
right on!
Wow, great content!! Loved it! 👍👍🔥
That is crazy I had to replace the cylinder and piston on my ms261 cm 2017 and newer version slant cylinder and I believe out the door after taxes in California it was about 250 bucks
Great video guys.
And fwiw I agree, I would sand and polish the cylinder and see how it works. It would be an educational video for us, no?
Cheers.
Donyboy I just sent that trash back to the seller. What a scam!!!
It seems the culpable party in this scheme, representing less than optimal quality for “new” is STIHL industries. They need to know that we know. Great video, guys.
Donyboy73 I just cleaned up a carburetor on a husqvarna air raider my second time doing a carburetor cleaning
awesome Matt, you'll be a pro in no time!
Thanks guys I am back into 2 strokes. :-)
I would guess the reason the change the fins on the cylinder and leaned them downward is to catch more flywheel air for better cooling. My dads 592 is the same
I worked for poulan years ago at (one of) the diecasting factory for cylinders and any substandard part was immediately cut up and remelted in one of the melters or furnaces. not sure how things are now.
On man's junk is another man's treasure. Nice team work
@Michael Farris. The plumber’s motto is “One man’s piss & shit is another man’s bread & butter”.....
I have a Jonsred 630 & 670
can I put cylinder and piston from 670 on 630?
I also bought a Stihl 044 that ran but not long tore apart and rings were stuck and 1 broke cylinder & piston look new but no markings anywhere to know what I got. I believe the cylinder is ok but need piston & ring but I don't know which one I need the 10 mm or 12 mm. Can you let me know how I make sure I have the right cylinder and get the right piston I would really appreciate it.
Thank you
That is a different angle for the piston travel. It appear that old saw with the new jug may not be capable of getting oil to the top of the cylinder. Are the crank an case different for the new engine?
I have a question about something other than a chainsaw question it's about a 1993 Polaris Big Boss 6x6. The main output shaft keeps shearing off. To find out what is the cause, what should I be looking for? Merci!
When you mentioned that saw ran a bit "hot", would using a cooler sparkplug c
ure that? Or did it tun a bit lean at WOT? Lastly, was there debris around the fins and shroud? I would try the cooler sparkplug. Thoughts?
You should get a clean shiny piston and wrist pin and c clips in a bag
Oh wow! I am so looking forward to Dave's success on this chainsaw project! I'm on the edge of my seat, waiting for the next episode. And by the way....who knew there was such a thing as factory rejects? If they're rejects, how do they end up on the market? Ethically, the factory should destroy the rejects so they don't make it out on the market and harm Stihl's reputation. That just makes good business sense.
I don't think Stihl ever wanted these to leave the factory!
I agree with Don - I think something shady is going on. While you are waiting for the follow up video here on Don's channel - I did the full rebuild on my channel. Check it out if you like! Thanks for watching!
Thank you !
Cheers!
The new part was numbered "2122" and the other part that came off the old saw was numbered "1212". They are not the same number!!!
Hey in your pile of old saws do you have an MS 361 I would love to buy it
Poor casting in the factory. Somebody in quality control may have thought it was smart to sell bogus parts and scam the inexperienced.
I have learned to avoid the generic Echo Speed Feed heads on Amazon. I should have bought the OEM Echo Speed Feed head.
What will hapoen if you used a new piston and rings on the original scored cylinder, after some 'smoothing' of the scores? Any drop in performance or reliability? Back in the days we used to ride 2-stroke 50cc bikes like that. Parts were just not available or too expensive then..
I bought a 'new' ms261 m-tronic topend kit from the ebay seller in Faribault, MN and sent it back as well. No pitting but way too much wear for a factory takeoff. In the end I sanded out the transfer in the cylinder and put a Hyway popup piston in it
Bill... this will be the same person. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. I'm currently battling with ebay to get a return shipping label. How is the Hyway piston working?
@@DavesSmallEngines I used two Hyway ms261 popups, They are good, so are the hyway cylinders that I have used, probably 50 topend kits. It is the same slug that is in the pre-mtronic version and also works in ms271
@@DavesSmallEngines BTW, I have a new hyway ms261, non-slanted, pre-mtronic cylinder here. Dony can have it for shipping for his basket case. No piston, I stold that out of the kit. Thanks for the videos!
@@grifonks hey Bill! I’ll talk to him. Maybe he’ll sell me that saw to fix too?!?!
Wondering if the top plastic from the older one could fit on the newer saw; That way there's no trimming required. And Donny: This is fun content! Thanks mate :-)
Good question - Don if you have the cover still I will bring up my saw and we can check it out!!! Would have saved a lot of work!
@@DavesSmallEngines yes and we'll mention it in the follow-up vid!
@@DavesSmallEngines How to use it after this repair? how much oil? how long to work to give her time to cool down?
So over on Dave's channel I commented something to the effect of "Stihl doesn't sell factory reject parts". Somewhere down the line I suggested a Stihl o.e.m. parts identification video and this IS a pretty good one however, the crown or combustion side of the piston should have an embossment or a casting mark bearing the "S" representative of Stihl next to the gas flow or exhaust arrow, unless of course they have stopped this practice. It would have been nice to see the known STIHL piston compared to the pitted piston.
Hey Brian, good point. I’ll go shoot a quick video on what the OEM 261cm piston and slant fin cylinder look like for future identification purposes. Cheers!
@@DavesSmallEngines GOOD IDEA!
@@DavesSmallEngines After seeing the initial video with the pitted piston I looked around for aftermarket and found some. I had some suspicion that this might be one.
@@Brian2bears any link to that Brian?
@@DavesSmallEngines I got a real good look at the cylinders, the "engraving" on the piston in the form of digits and letters caught my attention, way larger and the font looked strange.
Don't really know why but damn I enjoy these.
It'll work. No guarantees on long engine life, though.
Not good enough for me Newman!
Goodluck with your saw Dave
It’s up and running Steve! Check out the video I did on my channel!
Dave is a lucky dude to be training with you.
thanks!
Yes I am!
I manufacture machine components and rejects are closely monitored at our facilities. I would guess stihl also has security to control rejects. If they dont they need to.
Don, can you provide names of the places you buy your aftermarket cylinders/piston kits for Stihl? I’m going to attempt to rebuild a MS180c (011) and have only the knowledge I’ve learned from your videos. Thank you!
Don , you guys will like these a lot better , not so aggressive on aluminum ...Scotch-Brite Roloc Bristle Disc 07525, 2 in x 5/8 Tapered MED , they do make other grits also
thanks for the reminder, I think I have some in my tool box
Those holes in the piston are caused by gas that is picked up from the atmosphere when pouring the casting.
How much to get a axle shaft done since you got one on the bench lol.
What u guys are Canadian as well! Hell ya it’s nice to know that there’s more Canadians out there then it seems
There are about 35 million of us!
we sure are Canadian!
I thought the same.thing.when he mentioned canadien prices. We sure do get screwed over here on prices
Same. I'm from Ontario as well.
@@DavesSmallEngines holly cow eh that’s a lot haha
So this is the prequel to Dave's video. Did Dave get his money back for that cylinder? I just noticed the paint pen marks. Did it come like that?
I put the old style aftermarket cylinder and piston on my 261cm not realizing the difference at the time of order. My saw suffered a blow from a topped tree bolt that cartwheeled its way to crush my 261 heated handle muffler and cover. The impact broke exhaust port off my cylinder. I ordered the aftermarket replacement and upon arrival saw they were different. I tried it anyway. Trimmed plastic support off new cover and trimmed cylinder fins down from top of fins. Took quite a bit of trimming. Yes I realize that’s not great. The saw did run but not properly. It did not rev out fully or have as much power. There is a difference in these cylinders there is a small port on intake that prevents pooling of fuel on the newer style cylinders. This port lets fuel into base of crankcase so saw does not load up if memory serves correctly from arboristsite or ope forum. Hope u do well with swap. I hope to learn something to get me passed my issue.
What caused the parts saw to fail?
will Dave put new rings on the used piston or use the ones on it
Used rings for now as they are low use. I will buy all new OEM when I can find a legit piston and cylinder!
Damn. Donyboy is a hell of a guy. Letting dave have those parts for a saw he is working on for nothing. Even used those parts command a premium price. Need more people like Donyboy in the world today. Then the world would be just a bit better place.
Gas Porosity is one of the main defects that can occur when casting aluminum alloy. Liquid aluminum can contain dissolved hydrogen. Shot speed, temperature, and the design of the mold can contribute. No way Stihl let that pass quality control. Not sure what Stihl does, but some factories used to immediately cut, drill or crush reject items, to prevent rejects from ending up on the secondary market whether by recycler not recycling, or stuff not in inventory going out the back door.
I agree - I think this is shady business. I really appreciate your insight Jeff - It truly is great to connect with those who know what they are talking about. Cheers!
Good day Don. Nice interesting video. How would you know chain saw got or is getting hot? Thanks
from the darker areas on exhaust side
I'll be sure to keep an eye out for this!
Great video.
Thanks Leif!
Thanks!
Don, I have a 20 year old craftsman mower with the 6.75hp motor with the square plastic carburetor. I have only attempted to work on one once but broke the fuel connection off 🙄. Any tips on getting the bowl off to clean it out.
Treat yourself to a new mower. The ones with the vector carburetor aren't worth bringing back.
get a new carb or a new mower
The divots are known as porosity. It happens when air is trapped in the molten aluminum as it's poured into the casting. Some very very slight porosity may be acceptable. It depends on the application and the mean cylinder effective pressure. I did 5 years of engine development with Navistar and I worked on the 7.3 L powerstroke diesel piston. We wouldn't allow any porosity because of the excessive pressure in a diesel, however, this being a two-cycle engine a small amount of porosity that didn't go all the way through the casting might have been allowed by the quality control people. I'd be more concerned about the lack of the cross hatching in The Jug. It's the cross hatching that retains the oil for the Piston to slide back and forth in the cylinder and not get scuffed or scored. Keep up the great videos guys I always learn a lot when I watch you. Michael Kalagian. BsME Mechanical Engineering, Chicago, IL, USA.
thanks Mikey!
Hey Mikey! My father is a Mech Eng as well. He agreed this was a quality control issue. It is great to hear from you as well on an in depth thought on the issue with this piston and cylinder. I will be sending it back for a full refund. Much thanks!
I got a stihl km130r with original piston very much like that piston but more pits. It runs as it always has but this is poor quality control, I'm a husqvarna man and never seen it on their pro machines they do seem a better build, and lasts longer. Had my saws since the 80's :-) I'm too old for auto tune haha
I was wondering why you couldn't use a pot of water on the stove and boil the Earth carburetors with the detergent
I just bought a China one from farmtech check their Web sight .let me know what ya think
Are you sure that piston with a couple of voids is a quality escape?
yes, a chainsaw guru let me know that's what's happened
I got a lot of my supplies for power equipment from Jacks Small Engines no spaces
I'll check it out David - they don't have the new style cylinder yet (noone does).
Donyboy73 do you work on pressure washers often? I got an older one with a Honda engine. Got it used from Craigslist for $175. I noticed oil starts leaking just below the oil dipstick tube. I removed the pump and looked at the engine seal and it’s fine and the pump seal and it’s fine. I also installed a new dispstick tube on it and installed a shutoff valve since it didn’t have one. Getting frustrated as it makes no sense where it’s coming from. The washer that mounts the Honda engine to the frame is where it seems to be at. My engine oil level is same and pump level is same. Ugh 😑. It only leaks when sitting for days without use. When I use it no leaks.
Might need new gasket
@@logman6656 easy to install?
Sorry mate I call the seals gaskets. in your comment you seals are good are they new. I'm not an expert not my job is just repair my own power tools and friends. Hopefully some one with more knowledge can help if it was mine try new seal
@@logman6656 yeah seals are fine. I checked. No leaks there
I would have to see it, but sounds like you need anew gasket
Cylinder bores: Bare aluminum, hard metal liners, chromed, or nicasil...?
New piston and cylinder for ms261cm sell for 250 Oem no aftermarket crap. eBay was ripping u off
So was this filmed before Dave trimmed or after
Before
After watching this video I'm just hoping that the cylinder and piston I bought from Ebay for my ms271 will be better than this one. It's coming this Wednesday... 😨
Someone sneezed in the mold and that tiny bit of moisture created that surface porosity.
I've learned buying chainsaw parts/saws from anyone besides a store or oem is risky.
Crazy... So you think it was caught at the dealer stage or after, and thus returned? Or somebody taking the failures out the back door of the factory? (Or maybe even a ghost shift at the factory? Not sure how much manual labor is required, and how much the ghost shift people have - though they're pretty common in the electronic world.)
Power scotch brite pads make everyone look like a hero 👍 you can even get wheels for your bench grinder.
The seller is probably a dumpster diver at that Stihl dealer. If it was a real "factory reject" it would have been melted down for a new casting and never left the building.
No kidding!!!
I think most of the eBay and Amazon are mainly rejected and it’s a way of making money, most people who buy them are not mechanics or shops
When they fail the owner thinks it’s there fault 😢😢😢
Love your channel but any videos I have to thumbs down and not watch. Sorry but I come to watch you. !!!
In factory someone in quality control forgort that that piston is not good!
Pls make a video on if a generator runs perfectly fine but produced no power/electricity
ck out James Condon's channel on you tube
Oops forgot. The 'pitting' is called porosity. It takes a bit to get the casting machines warmed up and dialed in to make correct parts in a 'batch' or 'run', so parts at each end of the cycle often are 'bad'. So, the fellow who told you such was correct. Most companies crush/damage such rejects. I suspect Stihl had an oops where that didn't happen and it won't happen again. Unless those are made in China.
I guess I'll never know!!! Good points Jack. Thanks for the comment.
My friend just bought an Ebay kit from China for his Stihl. As genuine Stihl parts are just stupid expensive, a rip off, one can buy two working saws for just the prize of Stihl ignition module,. His cylinder/piston kit turned to be good enough to use. No problems so far. Stihls are fairly good saws, but when my saw started to act up, the ignition was failing, I just gave the saw to my neighbor for parts. I will not buy spare parts for Stihl prizes, I just boycott that. Stihls are not that good to pay that much. It is like MBs and BMWs, they used to be the best, so the brand makes them too expensive.
Why would a pitted piston be put in an engine in the first place? Then they run it at the factory and then reject it. I thing he bought a straight up used parts.
I thought all Stihls had rejected cylinder kits! A Swede saw guy........ ;-)
lol
@@donyboy73 We found the Husky guy!!!
Again I've never seen that bad of quality of pistons come out of anything Stihl has made short of aftermarket. As for a shop selling parts off of a warranty I've never seen either. Not saying it couldn't happen. That shop would be leaving themselves open to a lot of things. I have heard that the Chinese rip-off of the Stihl 660 has been brought in to Stihl dealers to be worked on & was refused. That owner was very upset. Can't help but laugh on that 1.
Watch our video on proper chainsaw chain tension here;
th-cam.com/video/Lld8PuHjEvw/w-d-xo.html
Watch our video on Dave diagnosing this chainsaw here;
th-cam.com/video/z6V2Dk-ceko/w-d-xo.html
Watch Dave's video on the factory reject cylinder kit here;
th-cam.com/video/DZP9RWoPcJY/w-d-xo.html
This vid is after Dave's where he has fixed the saw.
Don runs a shop full time and has two videos to edit a week. These were all filmed a week or so back - I just had time to edit mine. Cheers!
You got scammed, what benefit of what doubt? You were sold goods not as advertised therefore you are owed money from eBay. Don't let them fob you off.
One more reason to stick with the Husqvarna brand.
How come you don’t use the good piston in the Ebay cyl.?
The piston have the same part number. Ask the seller for a part refund.
I've tried going down that road. Not going to happen. Im returning for a full refund.
Here’s a clue. If it’s been run, it ain’t new!!!
If it’s a new saw stripped down for parts ask why??
Awh that is so sooth and slick ...that's just some heat. Am I watching chain saw porn? Good video btw. keep up the good work. :)
Thank you!!!
Many ways to make a living
I BOUGHT TWO BRAND NEW SAWS FOR $300.00
D@D, $300 dollars!!! That must have included health care. Love these videos guys.
I hope so lol!
Oh yeah, I've had my fair share of "free" hospital visits!!!
The saga continues ...
don i have a 291 needs cylinder and piston 1000 1k $$$$$ at the stihl shop here
Way to much!
ebay is a crap shoot you never know what you are getting but the guarantee is good.
Why would they install reject parts on a saw. Sounds like B.S. to me. I would hope that for what Stihl products cost that they wouldn’t put subpar parts on. I would say that a quality assurance employee sold rejected parts for profit but the p/c had been run so I don’t know.
No kidding Andy!!! Total nonsense!
He got a used piston and cylinder and paid 300.00 he got ripped off
was advertised as new oem
Dony. are the aftermarket air filters for Briggs & Stratton 798452 593260 4247 5432K 5432 OREGON 30-168 sold on eBay worth it?
Some of the prices seem too good to be true.
yes i use them, the oem prices are crazy