Should OLD Characters Be BUFFED? (Honkai: Star Rail)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2024
- A discussion about older characters in Honkai: Star Rail and some opinions about how to improve their place in the meta.
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A member of Hoyoverse's staff will watch this video and their only takeaway will be that they need to make "Universe Conquering Jing Yuan" :D
I feel like one important thing that wasn't mentioned here is that FGO and Arknights don't have a literal DPS wall preventing you from clearing endgame with weaker characters. I remember when I played FGO I usually used only a single favorite 5*, and a bunch of 3* and lower supports 'cause I wanted them to be the star of the team, It didn't matter that I needed 10 more turns and my whole team was dead at the end as killing the boss was the only thing that matters and I could minimize the effects of using lower rarity with a solid strategy.
In HSR is different since it doesn't matter how much of a strategy genius you are (even tho there's barely ANY strategy in this game due to how simple the combat is), if your favorite can't deal an arbitrary amount of damage in a certain amount of cycles you're out of luck, and the only way to change it is to get lucky with better relics, get a signature lightcone/eidolons or just get a better character.
Hey thanks for the reply!
I'd say In fgo's case, I was more speaking in terms of having dps on an even playing field. If you've got a 5* dps with double 5* supports, and a 3* dps that's been grailed up with the same supports, they can output similar levels of damage/clear times. Sometimes you don't even need the grails, for example in the last event people were using Caesar(a 3*) to clear the hardest farming stage as he was arguably one of the better options.
For arknights, definitely do agree that there's a lot of strategy(and sometimes just stalling) that goes into clearing stages with restrictions and whatnot, but I'd also say there's roughly an even amount that you simply can't stall and it comes down to dps, putting it in a similar spot to where the modules/etc help to clear.
I think hsr could benefit from a system similar to the modules from Arknights to some units a good module is a life changer like passenger
I think there is a certain form of strategy in this game, can be pretty advanced at times too. It can be things like when to use ult, when to hold ult, who to use ult, who should be advanced forward, should I skill or basic attack this time so this character can get within this specific av so they move in between enemies so they can slip one further attack in before going to the next cycle, which enemy to break so the next time they move they will get their turn in this specific av etc etc this can be complicated stuff too and Im having a hard time trying to grasp this concept lol
@@fl2ur I think that using only farming as a metric is kinda reductive, there's a bunch of different types of DPS in FGO with many different roles, they can be specialized in burst DPS to be used in farming like Arjuna Alter, they can be more defensive to be used as anchors in CQs like Lancer Cu, they can have specific synergies against specific types of enemies or terrains like Nemo, they can support your team in other ways like David, etc.
Arknights is the same thing, even if a character does less DPS than other they can still have specific quirks that help them stand out, like Qiubai being able to bind enemies, Mountain getting big amounts of self sustain or Weedy pushing enemies back.
In HSR there's only a metric that matters and that's DPS, that's why characters like Blade are considered bad even though he's supposed to be a self sustaining powerhouse who would be great in any other environment that's not a literal DPS race.
I hate how true this is even in simulated/divergent universe. If you don't kill the bosses fast enough they keep getting stronger and stronger every turn.
i really like how they gave us a new version of march 7th and pictured it as "she's learning". It would be awesome if they did something similar with the old characters, like "if you do this quest, your old 5* will "learn a new trick!" (fix a flaw or get a small upgrade) and later at their rerun, if you get them, they already come upgraded or something of the sort. Though i really like that we've been gtting a few new versions of old characters, which genshin definitely lacks
make natasha an actual dps with this change. she would actually use her grenade launcher to its fullest effect
@@lillyieher teddy bear is gonna drop fucking bombs on the opponents instead of healing the team
@@lillyie"DPS Natasha" You mean Vash?
I could see her being erudition using her grenades (:
I really want a support for my Blade to be good, I'm really confident that Sunday will be my Blade support
I hope you're true 😢
I really want blade to be buffed he has a special place in my heart as my first limited 5 star
They wont be buffing old characters.
And theres nothing that points out that sunday will be some sort of a hp / dmg support
Your cooked cuz if they release a sopport for hp consuming characters their definetly releasing a new dps alongside them
@@shaine9968 typical hoyo
@@shaine9968 Funny thing is that theres leaks of two hp scaling units coming out at some point in time
as a blade owner, cursed with shit scalings and a jing yuan owner, cursed with speed locked damage. please rework them(i know they wont)
To be fair, the trashcan magician event suggests an hp drain support is coming to indirectly buff the hp drain subset of DPS units (those being your Boi Blade, as well as Arlan, Jingliu, and Jade) and it seems like hoyo might be trying to expand both the Counter and Summon subsets of FUA playstyle, I could totally see a summon oriented harmony unit with a single target action advance somewhere around Sparkle's but it also action advances all summons 100% being possible
Both are amazing, look up JY teams PLEASE. Blade is more of a sub-dps though, in his insane teams you often find either JL or Jade.
@@charlimeows jingliu teams u better not using blade for jade i do agree but only cause it lets the other side use himeko herta. jingyuan is mid. my point still stands but i have hope for the summom meta and for hp drain buffers and de buffers that really boosts or makes the restrictions better
Follow up attack units are kinds good shit rn it won't be long untl we get a summoner Harmony unit
@@candleplays8030 yeah i have hope for the summon meta but might be just copyum
It is weird that jing yuan keeps getting buffed every patch somehow but blade hasnt been touched, prob just jade but its not enough. I trully hope the devs dont leave him for dead and powercreep him with sm else if they ever decide to start a health manipulation meta
Imagine if tingyun could switch from an atk buff to a health buff instead scaling to her current atk buff but gives hp, that would be a dream come true now further coping release a new version of tingyun like march it would be a fun way of bringing her back in story and buffing blade at the same time
Great to see us smaller content creators progressing. I saw your Powercreep video awhile back and now I see this. I was actually brainstorming for discussion content ideas and stumbled upon this and has given me an idea. I subbed to your channel, and I wish you the best of luck in your journey, bro. Keep up the good work fr
Something a different hoyo game does (HI3rd) where they either bring in a new divine key/weapon and a new stigmata which is the lc and relic set equivalent of HSR and it always make them once again viable with some characters even having this happened twice
Basically I'm saying they will never buff the characters but only what they use such as LC and relics cuz I would love a jingliu and jingyuan buff kind of the only part 1 DPS I have and still wanna use seele is still viable for some reason with a dastardly amount of investment cuz damn watching her zero cycle pf is fun
I see your point... in a turn based game it's hard to e.g. buff just one DPS unless you make a dedicated support. So supports tend to be a little more universal, but then they make everyone better not just your favorite characters... and so you're drawn to higher stats.
I'm only like 1.5 weeks into HSR, and I see this issue brought up a lot. It sucks to think the characters I started playing, the Stellaron Hunter (Firefly, Blade, Kafka and Silver Wolf) are not going to be viable by the time I get to pull for them.... for now I'm really enjoying the content and I hope this powercreep issue is mostly in the end-game, not the story.
**Your content is thoughtful and well-explained. A newbie like me can understand it. :)
Hopefully with the new banner system you can get the characters sooner rather than later! Kafka is supposed to be running with Feixiao in a week or so.
Let me say that everything in the game is
“”””technically viable””””
so you should pull for whoever you want.
The main problem. Is the limited 5 star characters being already outclassed by new ones. Only a year and a half into the game. Which is really disappointing. I pulled for Luocha and he was really really good at the start. Now I’m quit a bit sad he just can’t keep up. He has no damage reduction and only heals. Which means he’s only slightly better than a 4*. And sometimes worse.
Now we have aventurine who straight up shields all the time. Does big damage and has follow ups. And can also DEBUFF the enemy with his ult. And is skill point positive.
Also with the frequent amount of follow ups and attacks. He can break an enemies weakness quite fast.
It’s pretty disappointing
@@DarkFay Ah... that's good to know. If you get a new characters that does e.g. two things really well, they outclass someone else who only does one of those things very well.
I'll stick with it and see if I can finish the story only pulling for the odd META character.
@@DarkFayaventurine still has a weakness when compared to luocha that isn’t explored anymore. Meta is always a byproduct of the enemies being released, including sustain meta. Look at the most recent enemies in the game, most if not all of them use AoE in their attacks.
This is fucking amazing for aventurine, because he gets stacks so fast. If an AoE hits your entire team, he gets 5/7 stacks! More than half of what he needs to follow up and debuff enemies.
Aventurine becomes weaker the moment enemies target one specific character with big damage. The Mara struck spear elite was the biggest example of this, the chain of moves would oneshot pretty much any character back then besides sustains if you had less than 3k HP 1k def.
When one character gets targeted, luocha has the unique ability to heal them up by *interjecting through the enemy’s action*
This is something completely unique to luocha. The emergency heal for lingsha only triggers after the enemy takes their turn.
Mara struck elite spear throw -> luocha heal -> spear again (teammate is alive)
Mara struck elite spear throw -> spear again (teammate dies) -> lingsha rabbits
Huohuo’s interjecting heals only work on your turns or ultimate casts, and they’re really low unless you have her sig.
Even in AoE, luocha isn’t bad bc of his healing field(unlike some sustains… e0s0 fu xuan getting oneshot by cocolia ult). He gets bad when you throw AoE AND fast enemies in, which is exactly the meta we’re in now.
Kafka is actually still basically part of the meta... because of how she was made. Sadly there's literally no other 5 star DOT than BS lol.
I would love for Luocha to get an upgrade, because it’s kind of hard to complete Divergent Universe at higher Threshold levels, meanwhile Aventurine has next to no issue. Healing is great, but not when one hit can kill an ally before healing is possible.
So for example, an artifact set that increases the defense of characters if they are all healed at the same time.
2pc - increase HP by 12%
4pc - Transfers 30% of HP to defense. Ultimate gives the buff to allies for 2 turns
Azur lane has retrofit which is only given to some characters.
Mihoyo could make it so that older character unlock their retrofit by beating that characters story arc (get a new skin maybe) and activating their limit break tree.
Limit break being as you said, a qol upgrade, like:
- like fixing characters flaws
- adding new features to their kit
- increasing their stats
They will need to buff older characters at some point ,because nobody will pull for them on their reruns
Simps will.
they usually don't but use new characters to synergize, or more specific lightcones and relics
not necessarily, hi3 which also has pretty big powercreep eventually adds outdated characters to the shop for free and they stop getting reruns
They would not do that, they rather sell you new characters than buff the old ones. Im not saying i agree with it, but for business perspective they will lost money if they buff old characters.
@@sevengnomesinatrenchcoat it that wont make player get crazy? I mean for people who was give high investment to that character than that character become free
Blade actually isnt that bad, devs just made monsters have too high HP. Hoolay, the highest HP boss in MOC 12 has 2.9m HP. How is Blade gonna kill that boss in 7 cycles or less with damage averaging 70k.
Blade was good for his time. But thanks to the powercreep of characters getting stronger and monsters getting tankier he fell off, pretty hard.
Blade also does not have an optimal team with a dedicated support that works with him.
he has shit scalings so his damage ceiling is really low
You literally just describe how hes bad
That makes him bad then no? Like there's no other place that blade will do better than Every other 5 star dps
@@candleplays8030 bad for today's standards. MOC10 was the limit before and bosses only have 1m HP. Now Bosses are almost 3m HP in MOC12.
Need more of your hsr content its actually so good
Here’s my solution: introduce a L100 cap, but roll it out slowly, starting with the older, powercrept units. L81-100 should give slightly higher stats per level, but also expand the traces with several new minor traces and 1-2 new major traces. These major traces can be an opportunity to bring more current game design features into older units. Release these upgrades for 2 5* and 2-3 4* per patch, grouping them into themes and introducing events to “limit break” them. So, first patch could be space station units, then move on to belabog, etc… These upgraded units should be bottom of the meta or just below that. They aren’t going to compete with the absolute best new unit, but should still be overall competitive with end game content.
A Limit Break option that add more to their kit and change how they normally play can be interesting.
The game Punishing Gray Raven had a system called Leap for older unit that's not as meta relevant anymore. It add more stuff to their kit, change how they play and increase dmg dealt. Doesn't jump to T0 on the leader board but certainly feel better to play and more viable.
Reminds me a lot of Dragalia lost and it's Mana Spiral system. A few of the 3 stars, a bunch of 4 stars and a few outdated 5 stars would occassionally get updates that gave their Mana Circles (essentially traces) an additional level called the Mana Spiral, that when fully upgraded would result in a drastically improved and overhauled kit.
That sounds like a pretty good way to do it, honestly.
That has been something i was saying to, with my inspiration coming from azur lane.
Mihoyo could even add a story arc for these character as to why they have gotten stronger and give us a new skin if we unlocked the limit break aswell.
"These upgraded units should be bottom of the meta or just below that. They aren’t going to compete with the absolute best new unit, but should still be overall competitive with end game content."
They are currently WAY better than what you want them to be, I genuinely think we play different games when I watch these??
Blade is an insane dps, so are Jingliu, Acheron, Jing Yuan, Dr Ratio, Dang Heng IL, Seele, and even Argenti.
I don't want to level my characters more, it's already enough mindless grind for lv80 with decent relics.
Jing yuan is getting buffed patch by patch, kafka is still a good enabler in dot teams, topaz still throws pet pig to kuru kuru the enemies
Speaking of kuru kuru remember when herta (and himeko) where considered "bad" back then?
I think you'd be interested to hear about punishing gray raven's (PGR's) leap skill system. The short version is that old characters are able to attain leap skills through a grind which will bring them a lot closer to their modern equivalents.
To expand on this a little not only does it increase their overall "battlepower" or BP, the games system to measure strength, but it also improves their playstyle and gives them new mechanics.
For a good example of this you can check out Vera Garnet with/without leap skills. She is a character almost everyone loves but she was seriously powercrept by the most recent lightning attacker Lucia Crimson Weave (alpha). With serious investment and a lot of skill it is possible to make vera do similar damage to alpha. However the investment would be better spent on alpha which makes sense. But! that does mean for people who love vera they can still use her and she will perform great.
In co-op I fought alongside the old physical dps with my new physical dps and they were on par which was really cool.
I think PGR is very well balanced and its great to be able to use old characters. You can check out broku's video on b rank lucia, where he made her viable in ultimate pain cage! I cant clear that with my S ranks! ahem, no skill issue here.
(edit) Just wanted add its a way to buff characters that isn't just the company artificially making them stronger. you have to go grind the materials and level them up. you gain exactly the sorts of skills you describe in the video. It would work so well in HSR. Also, because they are hard to grind it shows a certain love for the character.
This reminds of how battle cats buffed its old units, with a completely new system if upgrade called talents
4:42 this part made think its easy to "fix" his problem, just releasing a Bronya for summons, advancing their actions. And I feel like its close to come, with some tips like new plannar set for summons, Lingsha (first sustain with summon), that new event focused on summons
Love your HSR vids, keep it up!
blade's multiplier is just damn too low that no matter how many buffs or characters we give, it will just be the same as the old units, my fully invested 80/200 136 blade does 60-80k per NA on a fully setup situation, my acheron does 125-130k per skill, where's the justice in that, acheron's skill is not even her main kit but Blade's NA is, they really should rework them
how are you not at like 200k subs already?!?!?! i genuinly thought u had atleast 100k from the quality of these vids
the thing about jingliu and blade is they already got their solid supports. Pela(def shred and increasing ice damage taken by a single enemy),bronya or sparkle then lynx(aggro increase for destruction units and heal) and jade(faster stack accumulation) for blade. They need better relic sets like hoyo did to kafka
Those are solid supports in general, but no way are they truly dedicated supports for x character (Blad, Jingliu, etc.)
1. Pela works with literally everyone in the game
2. Blade and Jingliu prefer Bronya over Sparkle most of the time but Bronya is a generalist support for most crit based DPS units in the game. Same with Sparkle but she shines more with more SP intensive ones.
3. Blade and Jingliu are usually paired with Bronya or Sparkle which would cause Lynx's aggro buff to expire instantly due to the numerous turns they'll get.
4. Jade is decent for Blade but she isn't enough.
It took me 7 whole cycles to beat the second half of Moc with an S1 Jingliu in her best team 😭
Glad that I have her E1 which is really busted against Aventurine. It's like 40% dmg increase.
Aventurine good at stalling
Yes.
They should have quests to upgrades. Arknights, GFL and FGO did this system so well that old units become more used switching up the game.
Even with support units it still doesn't make the unit that great because it becomes mandatory to pull to make a small set of characters good.
We never seen a HP scale or HP fluctuation meta. Basic atk meta can also comeback in the future, there is always room for Blade to improve.
Remember Himeko being the absolute worst unit in the entire game then the situation got flipped on its head.
Blades multipliers are so unbelievably shit that not even ho buffers could really help him much tbh. Himeko and hertas case was different since what was added was a different schematic to enemies, but honestly there's not much that blade can get - even if he gets 1 follow up a turn he still does such subpar damage, and any dot based enemies need to be played against with standard sustain units to prevent cleansing of debuffs. Best case scenario some sort of poison thar can't be cleansed and is on the field permanently, but realistically even that would just be a gimmick for 1 to 2 mocs where blade would become mid and eventually go back to being shit
I’d say the would be something similar to leap skills from PGR. Extra skills that are way more expensive to level up but help weaker characters catching up. For example, blade gets a skill that when in enhanced form he can consume points in death sentence to use an enhanced skill or Jin yuan whenever his lighting lord attacks at max stacks his next ultimate will launch an extra follow up.
I swear HI3rd is the only game that Mihoyo has ever went back and reworked older characters. With the addition of augment core sys...granted they havent touched this sys in awhile.
would be really cool if we got something similar to augment cores in hsr
Blade is just an odd one out since his primari stat is HP and only Fu Xuan and Lynx buff that stat. Crit damage is nice, but his kit gets inflated with that. Jade was a buff to Blade because of how her skill works. Now we just need a dedicated harmony unit that can buff hp scaling dps characters.
Give older 5 stars "awakening" quests, make these unlock new talent trees/traces that will give a major upgrade to them.
Make these quests solely playable with that character specifically so you need to build it and not depend on other characters to carry them.
Make the quests according to roles, supports support npcs, dps kill, sub dps vary, just like with the friendship trashcan event.
This would be the only correct way to do it instead of "multiply ability % by x amount"
I guess you can use old characters in sd, du and pretend they are doing that much dmg in moc to cope.
I was ready to go in the comments and type a whole paragraph but after listening for bit this intrigues me they can add a completly diffefent sytem too thats rare or that can affect older chracters only in unique was and is very detailed to them, like how lightcones are very strong but very specfic they can add some type of modifier onto talents that open up traces it can be rare too but for chracters that are insainly strong it can be slightly less stronger like the modifers can give small buff to consistencys like fireflys can be still do a small amount of break dmg while even if the enemy is not broken or do increased dmg by 50% plus break dmg to enemies that are unable to deplete there weakness whike for blade it coukd increase basic atk dmg through hp buff but also advance action 50% witchnwould be more signficant and more in line
I really hope you see this comment because I wanna also add this: they don't even fix bugs of old characters. So this makes some of old characters unusable.
One of the biggest example I have is Silverwolf in pure fiction. Biggest selling point of Silverwolf is implementing weakness that enemy doesn't have. If you tweak your team, you should have 100% guarantee but nope. it's bugged in pure fiction. I have a team of 2 wind and 2 quantum character. I used my skill on enemy that has wind weakness but surprise, silverwolf puts wind weakness instead of quantum (50% chance I mean). This is bug and not how it should work. I contacted with customer support with video evidence. They ignored me. I contacted them weeks ago. So this bug won't gonna fix. But they were fixing Firefly's bugs on day 1. I wonder why. I was planning to use my Seele. And I checked, I have enough damage. But there is so many 50/50 that I should win, If I lose any, run dead. So this bug not only hurts Silverwolf, it hurts other character as well. Due to this, I wasn't able to full clear. But this bug doesn't happen with Firefly, Boothil, March 7th which is all of them either have weakness implement (like Silverwolf) or weakness type ignore. What a bummer. I didn't even want them to buff Silverwolf, just fix her bug. But they don't care because since version 2.1 (including 2.1) we got a character that ignores weakness including next version. 7 version in a row. I guess they only care about newer powercrept characters...
I think the silverwolf bug has been a thing since she released in 1.1 - i think the way it works is that *any* element in your team can be applied, even if its already on the enemy - that's why mono quantum was/is so effective with her, because you always get quantum implant.
That said, 100% a frustrating mechanic regardless and I wish it was different. If they ever did do buffs to characters, that would be something they could "fix" for her, ex letting you choose what to implant(though that would be extremely strong)
I have a Cracked Blade (E1) and even with Bronya and Sparkle (E0) i could barely 3 cycle MOC12. Id say yeah he could use a buff to his kit.
1:35: It comes off as if you're saying you can't do this in star rail. You can, and people do.
I like how E7 does their character balancing while it’s based on pvp usage rates and player feedback it’s still a decent way to make old units not top of the meta you win if you pick this character level but decent enough to do well when pleated correctly
I think they do have an eye out for "HP manipulation" as a gimmick to push later, since Blade + Jingliu often shows up as a trial team type for events that showcase various gimmick types (dot stage, fua stage, break stage, ult spam stage, etc).
Would it "revive" Blade though if that meta ever comes to pass, with new relics/supports/etc? Eh.... maybe, but I'm not optimistic.
I'd look to Topaz and Kafka as I think they were in similar situations to Blade - early 5 stars pioneering a gimmick that at the time hadn't quite matured yet with little support from relics or characters. Both have since skyrocketed in value since then once Hoyo fleshed out those archetypes with strong characters that take advantage of the synergy pioneer - Topaz to Ratio and Feixiao and Robin, Kafka to Black Swan.
I think Jingliu was supposed to be using Blade as a launching point in a similar fashion to complete the HP drain archetype, since they were hyped up a bit on her release to have synergy together, and they appear together on all the trial teams for event stages that feature HP drain gimmicks. However a bit after Jingliu's release it became clear how much more efficient it was to hypercarry her instead of having Blade take up Bronya or Tingyun's slot. Basically, the HP drain synergy isn't strong enough to justify dropping a 2nd support for a duo dps, unlike how fua and dot synergies have more than justified that.
One thing Blade + Jingliu / any future hp drain related carries lacks however is simply a proper duo dps support. Ruan Mei is the best option but in that same team you'd be better off just dropping Blade for a 2nd Harmony regardless. Fua has Robin which needs no explaining of course. Probably the only thing that would "save" Blade is a teamwide support that specifically buffs the team based on, well, high volume HP fluctuation.
I think one reason Hoyo isn't super enthusiastic about pushing HP manipulation further though is that it's probably not the most casual fun gimmick to engage with tbh. In a more 'hardcore' type of turn based combat game, HP manipulation is super fun because it's a high risk high reward playstyle that requires you stay on your toes to weigh your odds and be ready to accept losses for skirting the line between life and death and messing up. However, a lot of Star Rail gameplay is just basic story/quest mobs or daily farming which involves no risk, and even in harder encounters the limited decision tree (skill basic ult) means there's little avenue for expressing that weighing of risk and reward. Take Blade: really the most you can decide to do maybe is hold his ult for 1 extra enemy attack at low health to get more value out of the heal back to half, but it's never going to matter in 99% of combat situations especially if you have a premiere Abundance like Luocha.
Epic 7 does this a way i feel it’s pretty good. They have specialty changes that basically does change the kit of the character hoyo could easily do something similar like the things you suggested with skill tree esque buffs. Or how March and MC get a new form. Or just simple things locked behind story quests for the character to achieve.
Honestly i think it depends on a situation. I benched my Jing Yuan for a long time until the previous moc cycle. The one with the Chorus and Argenti. I used Jing Yuan on Chorus side. Thing is, on Argenti side i used Boothill, so he was pretty fast (though he needed at least 3 cycles to deal with Argenti), but i had no one on the first side who would be fast and strong enough to give Boothill time that he needed, and after many attempts i came up with the team: Gallagher, HMC, Asta and Jing Yuan. This team was heavily rng dependent, bc if Jing Yuan was stunned at least once - it would be an instant restart. But i managed to get that 36* with Jing Yuan of all people. No i don't have Acheron and i don't plan on getting her, no i don't have Firefly either, my Ratio wasn't built + i don't have Robin as well. I do have Kafka, but honestly Jing Yuan was faster for some reason. Maybe he's built better i dunno. Anyway i was surprised by that team and how two units i benched kinda carried me there. It was just their time to shine. The situation was in their favor i would say. Though i do admit it was tough thing to do, and newest characters wouldn't struggle as much. Which is really sad if you think about it. There's no balance in the game, and new units are better than older ones. Some might still be considered meta, but some will fall off eventually. I think Boothill will be powercrept soon (as a physical hunt/break carry). Some characters had their return with better supports, like Topaz and Ratio, some were forgotten. I still want Blade for my account. I know Feixiao is strong, really strong, but i still want that guy. And i'll get him one day... It's really unfortunate that he's not so strong now in comparison to newest characters, but i still like him and his gameplay animations. I hope one day older characters won't be struggling as much in content, because at the end of the day they're still fun to use and watch at.
I'm agree on all points, you talk ! I don't like powercreep in games but Hoyoverse can just buff old character to be good in raise to be playable but not too much to break the meta
We need an H:SR Furina
I regret getting Blade and few others. Genuinely lost my waifu over meta mind in hsr at this point with how I always feel fudged by pulling the wrong units, add that i have terrible luck somehow 10 50/50 lost in a row.
I'm a new player who started this patch and I just pulled Bailu as my 3rd 5 Star. I was going to build her, but then saw Vars video on her and he mentioned she doesn't have a cleanse. So while I'm grateful I didn't start spending resources on a bad character, I'm also bummed out she isn't good enough to build over my C2 Lynx. I would love if they did what you suggested to help out the older characters.
Well just give them a story quest or a training opportunity like organising a huge tournament and you need to help your favourite win by training them and teaching new tricks or fixing flaws in their kits
If I remember correctly Dokkan does awakenings for old characters, essentially just giving the chance to "evolve" a unit into an upgraded one but without changing the character, giving it better stats and maybe adding on more effects to their kit. They stay the same element and design and all so in Honkai this would help not needing a path change unit like March in order for the unit to be better. So Preservation March would still stay the same in terms of looks but would have better stats, numhers and more to her kit or just an upgraded kit where she shields 3 allies instead of 1. Plus they get a new splashart. I think this would be a good way to buff old characters and make their kits more up to par with modern kits.
Just beated Kafka's side no MoC 12 with Blade, first Blade W in months
i think... the old character who got buffed unintentionally every few patch is Jing Yuan, he can get stunned solution Fu Xuan, he's damage is weak without support and using SPD boots have smaller DMG solution Sparkle so he wear ATK boots, he need to clear faster solution Jade also give SPD boost, FUA got dedicated set with Grand Duke set, these past few Meta is with FUA/Ult spam and Break, he's ult is fairly cheap so that's also buffed for him
Afafter yungli i beleve its more likely that we will se a dot centered mommy that likes umbrellas and spiders. And she procs dots on the targets.
Or literally a copy of any other character
Blade's E6 should be his base kit , and re work his constellations
Yah kinda like how leaps are given to old construct's in pgr
I feel like we might get buffs in the same way as March got her new kit. If you have the character already, you can swap to the other path but you'll have to probably use paid currency to unlock it for 5 stars, like skins in genshin. It would be OK, if they let Eidolons transition over but knowing Hoyo, you'll have to E12 a character😅😂
Still waiting for a specific support for my favorite Bladie :((
If they introduced a level cap increase id pretty much exclusively use it on firefly and Acheron since even if i do love dhil extra levels dont fix skill points consumption and for blade extra levels don't fix that he needs to be attacked
I already have a problem with neglecting support units
Characters like Blade and Argenti are great examples of great potential, but lacking a key puzzle piece. Blade really wants that HP buffer. Argenti could do with a buffer based on energy and DMG per max energy
Argenti + Tingyun + another energy based Harmony like Tingyun + Huohuo = Infinite ults lol
The best system for this is dokkan battles ezas where they just completely modernise a unit or multiple every celebration and now for the even older units that ezas have already fell off they’ve started doing super ezas redoing characters that already had an eza
Seele is still really capable though and can 0 cycle well. It’s really just a Blade issue.
You are not wrong, but Seele can use all the op support really well, Blade cant do that.
Personally, I think there is a realy high chance that old character will receive a buff in the future, since it's a turn based game. In the other games, everyone can kind of get the job done by dodging etc, but this is not the case in hsr. Additional noone is ever gonna warp on character that are just not worth playing.
Hey! just wanted to say u seem chill and I liked the video, new sub :)
AFIK, straight up buffing a character violates the law in China (I am not sure. just something I have heard of). One of a great ideas is to do exactly what HI3 does: battle suit. It might not have to be like SPs (DHIL, "that character" etc.). It could be pathswitch like what March and TB have. In fact, there's been rumors in the leak subreddit suggesting the implementation of that system, which is something I look forward to.
Id love if they get buffed but how is the question if we look at other gachas when a character gets a buff its usually a. A second awakening of sum kind where you fully max out the characters stuff and now they have a second awakening where they get buffs on their abilities etc, b. Would be a equipment specific buff where let say blade this can only work on blade and it gives idk crig damage equal to his difference of his current hp usually its equipment but how would that work since theres the 4 slots and the innor 2 slots so idk
I agree, if they don't do anything about the older characters and keep it as is currently. We'll literally get to the point where 1.X and even 2.X characters will be unusable due to powercreep even with perfect relics. I hope that's not the case and we will be getting at least something so we can continue using our favorite character from older patches. Even if it's new relics and planar ornaments, it's better than nothing. But of course that comes with more issues like RNG but I definitely won't be getting into all that.
Make it a really hard challenge to get the upgrade for old characters new content and relevance for old characters
I just want a support for blade and Seele Robin and Jade were good starts but I need something more
They won't rework/revamp older characters without some crazy controversy because it will set a precedent. Once the precedent is set, it can throw off how characters will be developed in the future.
@kasu9337
0 seconds ago
They gonna make old characters' qol to be in a form their twist of Divine Keys
I have a full build dot team im just waiting for character with synergy with my jingliu
Yes please, even if it's just QoL and not dmg wise.
imagine DHIL buffs 😮😮
For Blade, I'd give him a new set. Like come on, we've been giving set's to specific characters a lot. Jing Yuan get's one every story quest it seems.
Make a new set like Longevous Disciple that is also focused on consuming HP.
It's probably because HSR just shits out to many characters to quickly. If they were doing it at a slower pace like, 1 character per patch, thn the problem would be delayed by quite a bit.
Not to mention they could just add a furina tht buffs Jean or nahida with kekin, or xianyun for diluc. Idk how they'd do it in HSR though since the newer characters are just so overloaded.
Its also really hard to camp 1 domain if you pull newer characters because my god
I also think universal support are an issue when new support more specialized come to appear
Powercreep only really hurts old characters if enemies get more HP, causing the older characters to lose out to newer characters that deal more damage.
As long as enemy HP numbers continue to go up, buffing old characters would only end up being an arms race because you'd have to continually buff them relative to whatever enemy HP increase gets applied into endgame. Then of course there's the business side of things where Hoyo has a vested interest in making old DPS feel obsolete so that they can push for sales of newer DPS.
Furina come to hsr pls
Unless there’s a monetary incentive to buff characters, it’s unlikely to happen.
If Hoyo added something like an extra mod slot on a character that provided additional abilities to their existing kit, that could be cool. These “fragments” would have their own banner similar to Bangboo in ZZZ (but you could actually purchase the currency). Or they could come from limited events and then purchasable once they end. Say, for example, if a fragment for Jing Yuan allowed his lightning lord to act at 10 stacks as said in the video, or if Seele could trigger Resurgence while inside Resurgence. It would basically be an eidolon but more accessible
The monetary incentive to buffing characters is to make their reruns more appealing to roll on
Blade is my fav character (other than sunday) and he feels absolutely unusable, whenever i use him im like does this guy even have relics on? And hed be fully build, with his lightcone, and full traces i think?
That FGO implementation of being able to make your loved (Weak) character get stronger through being able to get as strong as a 5 star if you wanted to but with just a bit more effort than it would take a meta character, but still would be usable in endgame content unlike Hoyoverse games where said weak character will stay that way no matter the investment.
Sunday will buff old characters 🙏
Energy Supports is enjoyed by Old Characters more than the new ones.
Hsr really needs an extra way to buff characters. Characters like blade and seele just can’t compete with the likes of acheron, feixiao, and firefly. I know china has a law that prevents changes to characters but an additional layer of character modification like modules in arknights, extra skills in azur lane, and blessings in SU could really benefit old characters. A changeable skill or talent or ultimate for example would be so good on some characters (I’m looking at you himeko)
DBZ: Dokkan Battle EZA mechanic is the closest to a perfect idea for buffing
I would be happy if they rerelease older characters with a different outfit and as a new character.
HSR does buff characters in their own indirect way. They either release a perfect support designed just for them or they release content that they're great against and the previous meta characters aren't.
Like firefly is broken as hell... but the second you slap break immunity on any unit, she's completely useless.
It's really not that hard for hsr to nerf/ buff units without actually touching the unit themselves... and don't worry. It WILL happen.
Seriously my other dps characters are really outta league. Acheron can clear one half in 2 or 3 cycle. On the other hand Blade, Dan Heng IL can’t really do good amount of dmg without sacrificing sustain. Like they can barely use the cycles Acheron left for them
Funny how an e6 Seele doesnt even come close to an e0 firefly atp. Powercreep has gotten way too bad so quickly
excuse me what? their jobs are complete different styles, and seele can literally infinitely get turns with her e4
@@Rainbowsaur Im talking raw damage in moc, also Im just saying its funny how older characters get outshined so badly that they need e4/e6 or no sustain comps with the best supports to even be viable in endgame content
is that actually true??? that's insane
@@sevengnomesinatrenchcoat They're grossly misrepresenting things. Seele notoriously has badly scaling eidolons amongst the 5* outside of her E4, and this was the case even on her launch. Seele lives and dies on her stats + resurgence abuse, that's it. E0S1 Seele can still 0-1 cycle with similarly invested supports + sustain, and can actually 40k PF at that *same* investment severely easier than FF(shit in PF without E2). Seele on her worst team(Mono-Quantum) cleared Node 2 of the last MOC slightly faster than FF on her best team(8.25 vs 8.72).
Also, on principle, comparing a crit hypercarry to an AoE break unit is actual apples to oranges.
@@emanonomoi ah i see, i did have my doubts
no, Alot of people would want patch notes to be a thing in hsr including me. but remember the last time they "patch" things with neuviellete? even if they buff well deserved characters, it will incite expectations. "oooo... this character is gonna get buffedd because they are so weak" and the false advertisement thing.
all they need to do is make supports for these people. Blade with bonus damage based on hp/ consumed hp would make him good. remember that curio that does damage to 200% of characters hp? that was broken with blade.
blades best in slot supports are any action advance supports. that sounds bad right? the only support for an hp scaling character would be action advance like bronya, Robin and sparkle. all the supports are not playing with his unique hp scaling. there are people who give hp like fuxuan, bailu, and linx but nothing that can add damage to blades unique scaling.
like Jingyuan, he is potential man. potential to be broken but doesn't have anything.
So what if their good support is good for someone else? At the end of the day it makes them better. If you like playing the character then play em.
Idk man, My jingliu is doing fineeee, I can't even clear MoC 11 with Signature and 50/200 ratio, with even correct set and BOTH sparkle AND robin as a support. I get it if I can't clear MoC12 and all that bs with sub optimal team like that, but 11 ? What the fuck.
More gachas need to look at how dokkan does eza's for old characters
No, old powercreeped characters SHOULD BE GIVEN FOR FREE RRAAAAAHHHH 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
But that won't make you roll the new characters now will it
IDC BUT GIVE ME A BLADE RERUN PLZ I WANT HOYO TO TAKE MY MONEY
Yes
buff arlan (my glorious king) and my life is yours hoyoverse 🔥🔥💯💯❤❤❤
even standard characters more useful than patch 1.x limited characters
Yes.
They will be buffed if the stuff about old 5 stars getting new paths is true
thats true but i feel like thats still not the same, sure your favorite character is gonna get a better form with a new path but if you pulled them for their gameplay but youre then forced to use their new path because the old one's numbers don't cut it anymore its still a little lame, they could make a nihility blade who does 200k per turn but if you pulled blade because you liked having a tanky hp scaling dps who doesn't die its just not the same as a direct buff to destruction blade
The moment we get a Furina like buffer Jingliu and Blade gonna stonks
ngl i thought of this support and its REALLY REALLY NICHE like extra Niche
so a support that buffs characters that consume their or allies hp BUTTT the buff gets enhanced if the said character uses an attack that doesnt consume NOR restore a skill point since both Blade ( Enhance BA ) and JIngliu ( Enhance Skill) doesnt consume nor restore a skill point
and maybe the buff increases the dmg of the attack they use for blade its his enhance BA and Jingliu her enhance Skill ignoring weakness type
OR go with the simple way and just make their attacks ignore a percent of an enemies elemental resistant like huge amount
so yeah ITS REALLY REALLY NICHE
fuuck this makes me wanna get back into fgo...
Nah it's not as bad as HONKAI IMPACT. Since part 2, nearly 95% of the characters and equipment are useless with the new mechanics and enemy type.
Isn't Baiheng just Bailu?
@asaasa7900 I don't think it was ever confirmed, but for the sake of the video, it was just an example because she's the only HCQ member not "officially" in the game
@@fl2ur Bailu is the reincarnation of Baiheng after Den Feng (Den Heng) tried to revive her. Which created a monster and bailu