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The game refuses to give me break and dot characters when i was first played the game, so I just stick with crit rate/dmg characters to the point I only pull for them now. Im invested in crit and the FuA playstyle.

I somewhat disagree. Everything you said about nihilty can be said with harmony as well. Characters from other paths being able to apply buff (jade and march 7th) and harmony characters dealing heavy damage (robin). I think the main issue is hoyo mixing roles within the paths, destruction can be argued to be preservation by averting enemy's attention to them instead. Etc.

DoT is a debuff, stat reductions are debuffs and acheron applies a "debuff" on the enemy and needs to stack them to enable dps. it still has an identity revolving around debuffs, be it vulnerability or damage, and the fact other units can also apply them is good because locking them away to a specialty class would just be stupid. i'm a day 1 nihility main and do not understand the argument that it lacks identity especially considering destruction exists

thanks Nihility for making me rub one out. I guess that is your identity.

I don't think the problem is a lack of identity. It's a lack of DoT-focused characters in the meta. And the fact that DoT, like everything else in the game, suffered severe powercreep with the release of Acheron (and later Firefly and Feixiao). When you think about it, while most paths had a pretty specific purpose at first, they've all branched off into different categories. Hunt used to be single-target damage, but now it's follow-up attacks, which used to be Erudition-specific. Abundance used to be healing, but then it became healing plus buffing, and then healing plus summoned follow up attacks. The one path that has no identity is Destruction. It's always fit some weird category that should be Hunt, but isn't quite, because it deals a bit more splash damage than hunt, or does it? Sometimes it just counter-attacks a single opponent. And now it deals a ton of break damage and inflicts elemental vulnerability, because why not combine Nihility into Destruction, too? They'll likely return to DoT characters at some point once they've decided to stop releasing teammates for Firefly, Acheron, and Feixiao. But who knows how many more they have planned until then?

Nihility is an Archetype based around debuffs. Thats all they have. Dot is inherently a debuff as its like poison which is Nihility's theme. But Unlike harmony who is around supporting, they wont have skills to targets allies, so their kit is always going to have a dmg aspect to it (via skill and ultimate) Despite gui being a dot unit she still gives a universal Vuln, same with welt and same with luka. Acheron also debuffs enemies to do what she needs to do but her case is sort of lore reasons and balancing reasons, otherwise she'd be Erudition. Also the reason dot isnt doing well is simply due to the kits of the units. Most people would blame Kafka who can only detonate one target for 70% of the dot dmg per skill but you have to point out blackswan who wont allow kafka detonate the full power of her Arcana and her stacks RESET. If Kafka could detonate all enemies her by skill and do it with higher numbers like 120% of the original dmg, we wouldnt be having this discussion. This just points to the 2.0 Duo and 1.X characters being a result of Hyv trying to be like genshin where things werent nutty. so really its a kit issue and not a path issue

nihility is just personalities of each characters i guess

As of patch 2.6, I'm fairly certain Nihility's identity is "Works with Acheron" and "Works with Kafka" and literally nothing else.

Simple, just have the DOT debuffs from Nihility lower stats too. A character that lowers speed and turn order while damaging the enemies on their turns would be fine. A buffer that increases damage from DOT would help too. Paths are starting to bleed over, so it's not weird to have the niches disappear. Just make Nihility have the strongest debuffs

When Acheron released, I was confused why we got a DPS from Nihility but seeing her kit being dependent on debuffs and other Nihility characters, it started to make sense. I then started to wonder if they would release at least one DPS for ALL the paths, even the paths that are typically considered ‘support’ paths. Like maybe a DPS Abundance character that deals damage based on how much healing is done to the team, or a character that drains the enemies’ HP to heal the team while killing the enemies (I would love a character with a mechanic that would make sense in the context of being an “abomination” of Yaoshi, that is the source of damage for enemies and not just a healer for the team). Or a DPS Harmony character much like Robin who can passively deal damage, but this time this new Harmony DPS will actively deals damage and is the main source of damage for the team. We already have Aventurine for Preservation who deals a decent amount of damage, it won’t be hard to make another character for Preservation but make it DPS. With that said, I don’t think Nihility is confused or lacks identity. I like to think of it as flexible and has a lot of variety. All the Nihility characters are still tied to “debuff” so in that sense, that’s what holds the path together. If they do expand other paths to also have DPS of their own, like their own version of Acheron, that might be a good thing because that means there would be more variety with character kits and playstyle and each character release will be their own unique thing and avoid being repetitive. As HSR grows and more characters release, I think other paths being as flexible as Nihility is would be a great thing.

I feel like when it comes to nihility we tend to mix up archetype and path. Paths were never meant to be locked to one archetype. Destruction has crit dps, HP manipulation dps, break dps. It’s more like Nihility doesn’t have enough characters that play into meta archetypes, would be nice to have nihility characters that are alternatives to harmony characters in some niche such as follow up or super break

The unknowable domain is the only expansion that has this issue and it being an expansion keeps its fairly isolated. SU has largely, esp with DU been about forming a build around your team's main archetype, and then picking all the right blessings and curios to make the team work. In SU the heroes are the equivalent of the weapons you pick in traditional roguelites and in the majority of SU this has largely been the case. Every roguelite ive tried has the manual items you get to use that have their own mechanics and also the passive mechanics that proc by just you existing, quake and dissociation isnt a unique thing to Hsr and to an extend its unfair to say you dont benefit from building teams around these effects. Personally I feel like UD is a lackluster update and im thankful its an expansion that ill be done and wont have to repeat weekly. As a wacky self contained mode Im happy that it exists because its very diff from everything else in SU and thats the main thing about SU, it flips on its head with new itterations. Ofc as you suggest they could go way harder and add more transformative mechanics and effects, even change how characters play, however one, I dont think that would make very much sense in a gacha game and two, the aim is for it to probably be a rather simple and silly gamemode that you repeat once a week rather than smth you spend most of your time playing and the depth of it reflects that.

Nihility is basically jack of all trades, master of none. Well, except for DoT, because Kafka and BS exist.

I'm pretty sure it's because there are so many different ways to debuff, DoT is in a sense another type of debuff in which getting their turn is akin to getting damaged… I'd say Silver Wolf is the best symbol for the Nihility path. Now then, let's talk about a new path. Pretty sure Sunday is a hint at that new path, so I don't think a path related to DoTs will be here soon unless we get Finality or Elation as the next path(spoiler: Most likely not gonna happen, chances are; It's Remembrance next since we are going to Amphoreus right?)

You say "oh, Nihility doesn't have any focus anymore" By that logic, it didn't have an identity when the game *released* And you're just now noticing it The only 3 Nihility at release were Welt, Pela, and Sampo, as you said And what are their gimmicks? DPS (Welt), straight debuffing (Pela), and DoT (Sampo) I'd like to posit another explanation: It's Hoyo doing the same that they've done with the DPS paths All DPS paths separate into 2 different gimmicks within the path, almost intentionally imo Hunt? Fast (i e. Seele, Boothill) and slow (read: 134 spd) (i e. the FUA team and its various members) Destruction? Again, fast (FF, JL, DHIL) and slow (Clara, Yunli, Blade) Erudition? You guessed it again, fast (JY, Argenti, Rappa) and slow (Jade, Himeko, Herta) These can all be broken down further (Fast Hunt units can use crit or break, slow erudition is just FUA-based for now, etc) Nihility is *no different* The game tells us that they're centered around debuffs The "split" here is a focus on strictly debuffing vs dealing damage via debuffs Welt? Acheron? Kafka/Swan? They all deal damage in relation to debuffs Pela? Wolfie? Jiaoqiu? They're all focused on debuffs The split for the first one is *how* that damage is dealt (crit vs DoT (which could be interpreted as a kind of break... Lol)) Has DoT been getting much love? No, ofc not But slow Destruction units weren't either, until Yunli Same for fast Hunt units prior to Boothill. *Seele* was the previous one. Call that *18* banners between them. Hell, crit dps Nihility? Nothing *since release* until Acheron So, as a DoT enjoyer, it sucks, 100%. But its not a "Nihility path issue" imo Just a consequence of the game's play styles being so varied P.s. I'm not saying there can't be exceptions, esp as the game is going forward, or that my idea is the factually correct one. I'm sure improvements could be made here lol. I'm just calling stuff as i see it, and wanted to share it here Peace ✌️

Dots are debuffs tho arent they? Like the common link between all these characters is that they revolve around burdening the enemy with an effect. Wether that effect is a damaging condition or a debilitating one doesnt really matter im general. Its like saying hunt path doesnt have an identity because some hunt units are followup while others arent while the connecting aspect is the focus on st dmg. As for role mixing Its think its fine when its not excessive, like theres non erudition units with aoe abilities and theres abundance units that either buff or debuff and ofc abundance units that deal dmg. The DOT branch of nihility needs help that much is certain but if hunt hadnt gotten a new unit in 2.x we would be having the same discussion about that path as well. I dont think nihility is the problem, the identity is still there there just havent been any new units to either double down or evolve it into new and exciting territories.

Gold and Gears was peak and I don’t think any future SU expansions will come close 🥲🥲 UD is a little fun tho when the scepters start looping and kill a boss before they can even attack. When fighting hoolay he entered his 3rd phase, a scepter went off and that was the end of it 🤣 the follow up scepters are my favorites

And now tingyun is all 3 at once

I think the nihility identity is debuffing no? Every nihility do that if im not crazy, and not specific on DOT only i think 😅😅

I love those fcs who write that game pushes this on them (dendro or break) xD Oooo is story too hard for you? Is the ranking too competitive (it is single player games with no ranking😮)? How, when, why your idea of being pushed get deformed to this level? Is it normal behavior? Saying stuff "I'm not saying it's bad but it's bad" is just silly. Grow a spine, balls or stop whining about everything you see. (YTer is just trying to defend their clickbait thumbnails...no reality behind it...and why are you nodding pussy?)

It's so frcn fun saying "no craft" "you don't need anything just put EM or Break blablabla xD" You frcn dum dum It's same thing as Critical. xD Should I say...there is no art in slapping as big crit as possible amd that's it? It's soumd sooo dumb than only thing what excuses you...is that you doing same sht what other said. And that you don't get where is your hypocrisy

nihility's identity is they can be whatever. DoT,hypercarry,debuffer,damage amplifier

I could see Dot being spun off to a Finality/Terminus path

Fun fact :-if you use fugue skill on a linsgha or adventurine then their fua and badic attk also generate stack for acheron ult

As a nihility main we don't care we just spam 3 button :-Q,E,Ult Nothing serious 😎😎

Nihility gives the impression that at one point in time they were going to have another path in dedication to either DoT or Debuffs and they decided to scrap it and lump them together for release. It does bring up the question though, given we are likely getting new paths in the future, what a DoT based path would have been or perhaps the other path was for Debuffs, we will never know. Also I think DoT is just bad right now cause we are in a heavy Super Break Meta with a splash of FUA, so everything right now is either Break or FUA oriented but then when we go to the new planet maybe they go super ham on DoT as the primary source of DPS and Break ends up falling off for a time.

The specialized role of Nihility path is the focused inflicting aliments (negative conditions) on your enemies. In Game they state "Nihility applies debuffs to enemies to reduce their combat capacities.". As others have mentioned characters in the Nihility path aren't just about dot. We see characters in this path doing more for your teams than just dot FROM 1.0 w/characters such as Pela a dedicated debuffer support and Welt a non dot DPS that deal extra dmg to slowed/weakness Broken enemies while having debuffer utility. The only dot focused Nihility in 1.0 was Sampo. Even looking at the kits Guinaifen and lukka both are 4* dot Nihility characters who aren't just used for their dot dmg. Guinaifen inflicts dmg vulnerability when enemies take any burn dot dmg. Lukka is a single target dps with bleed dot/break dmg w/extra debuffer utility. Black Swain for all the Dot Dmg she Deals, still more than a dot character with the def reduction on skill and the ult debuff that gives ENEMIES dmg vulnerability DURING THEIR TURN which can taken advantage of outside of dot since many BOSS TAKE MULTIPLE ACTIONS. Kafka is the only other Nihility Dot character that is focused on dot.

I Alr Pre Farmed All Of Acherons Mats N Her Pulls Guranteed, N If I Have Some Left Over After Pulling For Her LC I'll Pull For Sunday, But Ngl I Hope Sunday Reruns In 3.3 So I Can Get Him Again Cuz I Dont Think I Can Get Him On His Debut

Nihility is presented as being everywhere, all the time and in diferrent capacities. That's why Nihility has everything. Except healing -_-....

I'm not sure if having Nihility really focus on DoT is the best way to fix it. In a game where everything at a high level is built around being essentially a time attack mode, returning to a focus on defbuffs that don't require "spending" AV in order to function at all seems like a better fit for the nature of what the game is. People fixate on the Kafka-DOT team, but I'm not sure that team/DoT should be taken to be equivalent to a whole Path.

Dot is also a type of debuff though? The only outlier is acheron, but it does make sense as she's the emenator

I also think that the solution for dot is making other path be also dot, like a hunt dot unit that can ATK supper fast and stack too much dots that the enemies dies from one big nuke for the dot instead of the chance nuking them with Fua or ultimate, we have units in 1.0 that besides not being dot unit work around them, like serval and hook, even asta

Nihility identity is negative status and being un specialized in one thing, having a meaningless identity is the identity of nihility in the game

I'm confused by ur counting dot character numbers solo cause dot i literally just something that applied by all unit's of 4 out of 6 or 7 elements on break and at times even after break b4 recovery.

I feel like the beetle path in hsr would work cause the simulated universe you can cause spores on the enemy, which is kind of like dot

DOT falling off, who cares

the thing about dot is that, whatever they put a dot unit, whether it was a buffer for dot or another dot damage unit makes kafka alway relevant due to the nature of her skill. popping of accumulated dot one more time on the top of her basic skill damage this is also can be said to her ult popping another dot. that is why, she'll always be strong as a dot unit which make her kinda hard top atleast they do a really strong dps which makes acheron come to light as a nihility dps

Dot is not really for Nihulity only, But characters that plays around dot damage are will be nihility, Nihility is supposed to be a debuffer and a role that makes the enemies become weaker, Perfect example is fugue, we already have a hunt buffer like march 7th, Similarly, fugue gives def reduction and the character she designates become a debuffer itself, her passive gives extra toughness bar which is a debuff, she has a supporting damage debuff called super break, which intertwines with harmony mc.

Tbh for me nihility identity for me have always been debuff like every member of this path only shares the ability to debuff nothing else for example DOT(kafka/bswan) crit unit(welt/acheron) and then the supports(fugue/JQ/fugue) there playstyle only shares one thing debuffing enemies either for there team of for themselves(acheron) but they play completely differently to each other but rn this identity kinda got into a weird spot where unit outside of nihility now starts applying debuffs which for me dosent make sense bcause they taking the identity of nihility as a path but this is my opinion on this matter

even Aeon IX doesn't even know he's exist, no wonder nihility is in this state lol

Bro forgot Sampo all the video lmao

Actually All paths do whatever.

As far as I see it we already have "Super DoT" and it is Kafka's ability to trigger DoT effects. Super Break doesn't let break crit, it lets you continue inflicting break damage to already weakness broken targets, it's an extension of what break already wants to do that puts the pace of damage output into the hands of players and removes the issue of needing targets to recover from being broken before you can break them again. Likewise Kafka and certain Simulated Universe nihility blessings allow us to make DOTs deal damage on our turns/ at our pace rather than having to wait until the turn of the enemy in question,. Both are giving us means to make these turn dependant damage sources cause damage more frequently and on our own turns, allowing for much more total damage overall. Which means the logical next step for a hypothetical "new meta" dedicated DoT support would be to give a party buff that allows DoT triggers on hit. HMC gives the party the ability to deal super break damage, and with characters like Firefly and Rappa who have in-kit super break this results in them simultaneously dealing 2 distinct instances of super break, so if DoT trigger worked the same way Kafka would still be good on the team but not essential. Alternatively we could take ques from the SU and have an Abundance unit that applies healing when DoTs trigger, or perhaps a Preservation whose shields feed on DoT effects and has some form of retaliation like quake damage/ apply DoT upon a shielded unit being hit. I don't think DoT needs to be just for Nihility or vice versa, but they've been pigeonholed into each other at this point, and looking at some units like Gally/ Lingsha, Nihility seems to have lessened it's grip on more general debuffing as a result. Mr Yang's slow/ imprisonment output is imo cool and fun to play with and a decent example of other things a debuff focused unit can look like. Acheron probably also fits this bill but I haven't played her enough to get a proper feel for her. Nihility is the debuff class so DoT was naturally a part of it, DoTs are just debuffs whose effect is dealing damage at turn start after all, but DoT's become recognised as a distinct thing now which is part of the rift. However just because DoT became a relevant enough playstyle to make people stop considering it as a subgroup of debuffs does not mean Nihility has a lack of identity. Nihility also has connections to Break, most visible in the older SU's blessings before the break effect/ efficiency bonuses were changed to destruction blessings in DU, but also in the upcoming Fugue who I understand is a Nihilty Super Break support. Despite Break being more associated with Harmony now due to Ruan Mei and HMC which has made some people question Fugue being a Break Nihility unit, weakness breaks for the elements that have DoT effects were one of the more reliable ways of applying them for a while, it's not wholly unfitting for the class to play with the mechanic as one leads to the other. Now that being said I'm all for a quantum DoT unit and the fact that quantum entanglement is not considered a DoT despite being a damage dealing debuff that triggers on the start of the enemies' turn has bothered me ever since I found out about it.

makes a lot of sense it having no identity, for me nihility is the path that steals your identity

I’m saving for that DoT healer that’s coming out very soon

I hate scepters. There are so many and they're so complicated that I just focus on type and getting collecting 3 of a kind. It is a shame since the lore sections were really interesting, but I can't bring myself to go back and wring all the rewards out of that mode.

a real debuffer that reduces enemy defense, enemy spd, enemy atk, or enemy turns etc. would be too broken.

DoT is a Debuff. The only exception to the Nihility role is Acheron, and even she has to apply her "debuff" to get ult stacks.

Dot shouldn't treat as debuff tho :v

I dont think it has anything to do with nihility but hoyos unwillingness to make DoT units. DoT units dont have to be nihility, the same way follow up units arent in one path exclusively. We could have gotten a DoT harmony and a DoT abundance character but we didnt. The same way Serval has a DoT as erudition almost every other release could have been a DoT buffregardless of the path they are in, but it seems they dont want that.