A discussion about shields on Honkai: Star Rail and some opinions about how the game can be more varied while in combat. Credits: Thumbnail & Audio Help: linktr.ee/sab3... #hsr #honkaistarrail
It is literally IMPOSSIBLE to get past the hardest levels of the Simulated Universe without a shield since no matter how good your healer is it is useless if the enemy kills your characters in 1-2 hits. I predict that in the future they will start: - Making healers capable of converting overheal into Max Health or Damage Reduction - Making enemies capable of going through or nullifying shields to motivate the use of healers. Also about why we dont have more Preservation Characters, i think they kinda peaked to soon with Fu Xuan and Aventurine since they are just TO GOOD and they are afraid of powercreeeping them and break the game
the thing is, there are enough blessings/curios/equations/etc in SU and DU to where those shields don't have to come from your characters, and the enemies hit hard enough that even full def aventurine players will still need to pick up blessings that buff shields to not get 1-2 shot. SU/DU just isn't balanced around base characters, you're not killing a boss with 1280% extra HP before it kills you with any dps if you don't pick up the right blessings
@@theseventhsheep9724Even if you are loaded with Blessings of Abundance this won't prevent your team from being One-Shotted by the final boss while with Preservation at the end of the run you are practically immortal. Even taking Blessings and Curios into consideration doesn't change the fact that Shields are superior 9 times out of 10 since at the end of the day preventing damage will always be superior.
@@Truck-kun11 i'm talking about getting preservation blessings that give you shields even if you run a healer. there also are blessings that increase your max hp, and those still can be enough to prevent a one-shot, while your healer + the resonance heal you up i agree that shields are generally better, my point was just that you don't need characters to give you them, so long as you play SU correct. the stats are so inflated in SU that at the higher levels especially, you need to squeeze out every bit of dmg and sustain possible
@@theseventhsheep9724I agree, but my point is not that you need characters that give shilds, but that you need shilds in general. Not using shilds is not a option since healing alone is just not enought and that is a problem since they should be balanced.
@@Truck-kun11 my point on needing to bring characters or not came from how i think abundance and preservation units themselves are balanced, rather than raw shields vs healing. of course, when enemies get as strong as they do in SU, one-shotting becomes an issue, and so shields will inevitably be stronger. even if shields in this game acted as a "will save you fully from the dmg of x number of hits" rather than HP overflow, that issue would still exist. for that reason, i think it's more worth to compare the sustain units themselves, and in that regard abundance and preservation still feel very balanced to me, since even if your shielder can save you from one hit, unless you stack blessings on them, your team will still take some damage every time and be killed off.
Hoyo will most likely just make a 5* overheal abundance that will heal a lot and compensate for lost health from overheal provided (basically working like a shield) and not look at the problem any further
I actually think it’d be cooler if that was a Harmony character. You can over heal into higher max hp, and the higher your max hp is, the higher the buff from the harmony character. Would be a really cool blade support
Using Lingshua in the Wardance makes it seem that she is able to heal pretty frequently but even still I got nervous a couple times and even lost someone on one fight
@@adamnguyen966 And they're all broken in their own way. We don't need more power given to harmony when nihility and abundance are both struggling already.
@@MystraThat's a terrible comparison. In souls people literally choose the most OP weapons to beat the game easily, and people who want a challenge use weapons they just enjoy HSR is a gacha game, if you love a character but don't like how they play then it can be annoying Also it's not about any particular character, its about that healing is just worse than shields, and they should be more equal
I think the problem is that specifically Adventurine and Fu Xuan are insanely good, not so much shields. Gepard, March 7th, and Fire Trailblazer can all give shields but for the energy/skill points cost its not worth it in most cases. The whole Preservation Path was pretty useless until those 2 came around. Shields arent that good in Star Rail, but Adventurine's shields are really good.
the main reason Gepard, March 7th, and Fire Trailblazer shields also arent that good is because by default shields do not stack, if they changed that they might shine some more
The issue is that the two Preservation characters, being Aventurine and Fu Xuan, provides something in utility other than making your characters survivable. It's either: 1. Shields that stack with talent with an innate 50% effect res 2. Skill from FX that basically relocates most of the damage to FX, along with one time CC and free 12% crit rate, and that it lasts as long as FX turns go. Which Gepard could barely provide much for the team, which is shields but that's it. Yes, you have taunt increase on him in base. But that doesn't change how good Aventurine is compared to him, or how flexible is FX compared to her.
the moment we get a healer that overcaps your max hp and acumulates the amount of healing you get so u deal more damage, that day, me and all the Bladie mains will finally be happy
Honestly suprised they just havent added an enemy that does more damage to shields in the game or something that eats through shields to your real health like those wolves from genshin. Atm i think Lynx is the only healer that overheals by increasing max hp but its only to one person so its only really beneficial on blade tbh.
Bailu can do it too, "When Bailu heals a target ally above their normal Max HP, the target's Max HP increases by 10% for 2 turns.". And funny you say they did not add a enemy that deals more damage to shields since they added the opposite of that, the monkey that takes damage from shields when attacks them.
SAM does that though? (Eating health while having shield) except it's when we consume SP, as an Aventurine main this does not make me happy although this hasn't been a big issue for me since his shields are that strong
So I have a whale team, E6 Clara S3 , E0 Yunli, E1 Robin, and E2 Feixiao. Clara E6 anytime an enemy attacks my team 50% chance of Clara counter, her Sig LC she heals everytime she attacks, Yunli heals when she Ults, Robin in Ult can’t be CC’d neither can Yunli, my Clara and Yunli do non stop counter attacks and heal themselves, meanwhile Feixiao already has 12 stacks and my Robin is buffing the ever loving shit out of everyone. Pure destruction
the only way I see hsr making healers relevant again is if they release a character like Furina or introduce enemies that can ignore shields 😭aven and fuxuan are way more comfortable to use atm
I think the best way to do it is make abundance give extra utility. aventurine and fx give some crit, yes, but huohuo energy regen + er and Gallagher's insane toughness bar nuking and SP generation provide much more (as stated by the video) So, preservation = keeping team alive easily Abundance = keeping team alive a little worse, but also with utility. I find myself using gal over aven because of the utility he provides
In Genshin it works bc you can still dodge boss attacks, but imangine HSR Furina draining your HP before a boss attack and you don’t have heal and can’t dodge
I'm day one gepard user and still going. I never realize how broken aventurine till I count the sp uses. He's basically can refresh every turn while gepard with need to spend 2 sp to make sure he gets perfect uptime
Gepard is known for his clunky shield uptime. The reason why the release of sustain like luocha on earlier days makes gepard more undesirable. Fu xuan release basically put gepard on bench..🥹. Apart from the simulated universe he just got out performance by other sustainers. Still he still got slot in SU. And may be better than adventurine with how gud erudition blessings that grab. Uptime is not a prob
I just hope healers can keep up with aventurine. Like an artifact set that can increase defense or max HP of allies when healed. You can’t not have a reviving feature and then make the enemies so strong that they kill the allies before they have a chance to react.
I'm sorry, I wish you did not bring awareness to this issue. I am very comfy with my Aventurine team comp and prefer if it can last for a very long time. I don't really want further challenges atm because real life issues rn and I don't want to face building another sustain unit that powercreeps Aventurine.
I feel like dance dance dance and harmonies are a bigger issue than this take. Sustains really only play a role in du and su. wind set and ddd shows use sustain is just slowing damage down unless you have like e6 adventurine
I’ve had this worry about Aventurine for awhile now so I’m glad I wasn’t the only one to disagree on how they handle his kit. Honestly your suggestion where you give up a turn to basically just block is something I hope they introduce to this game. Turn based are already linear by nature so I don’t see why they have implemented some sort of.. guard that gains no SP just so we can survive a boss nuke In your opinion would you say pulling Aventurine flattens the difficulty for most accounts that have him?
i genuinely dont understand why shields couldn't be treated as akin to a buff -- aka make it expire after a set number of turns, and have it have similar interactions aka you can dispel shields entirely, make it so your opponent cant accept friendly buffs, etc.
Well, one of the inspirations for HSR is Trails series and that's exactly how shields work in them to the point that you need them no matter what in the endgame/higher difficulties unless you use a massive dmg nuke build, likewise a 100% dodge build or delay build can work but gets less useful. This is because Trails has enemies that ignore shields (or just do so much dmg it goes through shields and half your HP), enemies that ignore dodge chance and can ignore delay effects. In prev Trails games, it was pretty easy af to make EVERYONE have the same build (I beat Reverie with everyone having 100% dodge for example while also having MCs nuking everything), Daybreak kinda changed that with its build system and the builds were more doable midgame though. What can HSR do for more dmg besides having enemies with multiple attacks? Shield Penetration (% of dmg goes through no matter what), True Damage (dmg that cannot be reduced by DEF thus incentivizing more HP builds teams), %HP attacks (thus incentivizing more DEF builds teams), more enemies with FUA (only shield guys from Belobog have em), more enemies with delay attacks (again, I think only 2 enemy types have em), enemies with their own ults that can interrupt turns just like we do them. Likewise for sustains; they can add a char with a dodge mechanic (that goes dwn the more you dodge thus having to reapply it more), healing through DoTs (it's a blessing in SU already so just give it to an actual char), another char with revive mechanic, healing through attacking (attack enemy, heal whole team), convert HP to shields or vice versa. I know peeps hated it with Acheron but also force characters to have specialized teams like her needing 2 NIH; have a character that needs more path variety in their team to be optimal or even legit a SPECIFIC character.
Those are good ideas! One of my friends is heavily addicted to trails and tells me about it so I'm pretty familiar with how those games work - I think a lot of the mechanics from those games like shield ignore/etc or adding in something new like dodging would be a great addition to the game. I guess Moze is kinda similar to that since he takes himself out of the action bar? Neat to think about regardless.
If enemies penetrate your shields and you don't have a way to heal. OK so maybe think next time before you post because that would literally make Aventurine useless. Who wants to run a shielder and abundance on the team? Nobody. Stop regurgitation of bad ideas.
while i agree shields are generally better than healing in HSR, so long as either healing or shields work in content like MOC, PF, and AS, i don't really see a problem. healing allows you to keep your units at full HP while shielding lets you tank bigger hits even when you aren't full. you mention how a unit with barely any HP could still last so long as they have a shield, but the same is true if that unit was just healed. moreover, if your shield was low, you'd still need to refresh it (taking the same resources as a healer). i think the issue is just that aventurine specifically is just the strongest sustain in the game rn, so shields seem better. no one talked about shields when the best unit we had for them was gepard, bc shielding along isn't enough to make a sustain great. as for sim u, there are enough ways to get shields (and other sustain options) through the blessings that i don't see it as an issue there either. obviously it can feel bad to need to get those sustain cards over damage ones, but the enemy stats are so inflated in sim u that of course going in with no strategy won't go well. the new healing overflow > shield curio seems like a sign that hoyo knows that if they increase enemy dmg, they need to keep healers functional and new options will be created for that
@theseventhsheep9724 Hey thanks for the comment! My real concern(if you could call it that, this is mostly just a discussion video) is that the only two preservation characters released are definitely a level above most other units in terms of keeping your team alive - aventurine rarely has to skill in most content + fu xuan is fu xuan, compared to huohuo who needs to be skilling often to keep her passive healing active & refresh her ult. It might feel like aventurine is an outlier, but what happens when the inevitable next preservation releases with a kit just as strong or stronger than theirs? Agreed on the aim universe point, there's definitely options and hopefully hoyo does move in the right direction there with the healing blessings/curios
@@fl2ur i can definitely see your point, i just wonder how much of the issue you see right now is coming from the specific units we have at the moment. you mention huohuo, but one of her limitations has always been that her healing isn't massive, so i feel like she isn't the best example of a healer. luocha (while far from perfect as a unit) is still a super comfy healer with his talent heal + frequent heals on teammate attacks. when comparing him to aven and fuxuan, unless you have 2300 hp teammates, i don't see any big difference. of course, in those cases where you have super squishy supports, a shielder would be nice, but basically every support except maybe tingyun and robin can give their full value with an HP/DEF body/orb. i guess we'll have to see with new enemies, but even then with at least the next boss in hoolay, he feels designed more for lingsha than any future shielder
@@hypemaddox yes, aven is def good against him, i was more using him as an example since lingsha will also be great against him, showing how both healers and shielders can have good match ups
@@theseventhsheep9724 Lingsha suffers in that fight simply cause she isn't fast enough to keep up with Hoolay if he enters the bloodthirsty state (Her emergency heal trigger is high enough you can easily waste and without ult you are pretty much screwed)
Yes Aventurine is the only MUST character on the team you can comp with any of the other characters. I main Acheron teams and I HIGHLY recommend getting a 5* lightcone for him (I use Gepard’s since I pulled it but I’m sure his signature is better for him) he basically refreshes the shield every round at 80 with most of his traces maxed. I don’t even have that good of relics on him and only at +10 and I’m f2p.
Genshin had the same "problem" and they made enemies who could bypass the shields, they will probably do the same here, making healers a must for one or two rotations
The thing is that there are no alternatives that already exist. You mentioned taunt but realistically how many bosses use single target attack as their big stronk? Maybe Lofu's monke, a couple of centaurs, Hoolay and that's about it. Aventurine does aoe, Kafka does aoe, Phantylia- aoe, Dragon does...something, Sam aoe as well.
The dev talked about dodge already. Aventurine was planned to be a Dodge Support giving all teammates a Dodge Chance to Go with the Gamble thematic. But during testing they realised that it feels shit to play to restart because you got unlucky with dodging. They would have to make it overpowered so that having to restart has a big enough reward if it does work in your favor. And blocking dmg as we can see in SI is shit. It's just a bad version of Shielding since 5 star sustains should be able to sustain you a shield will always be able to protect you why have a dmg block if best case it abssorbs a strong hit or worse it absorbs just a minion Attack. When shields and heals already full sustain in endgame
The one complaint that i have with this is that you said "chose to bring (abundance unit) instead of (preservation unit) some people may have lost their aventurine and fu xuan 50/50's or just didnt have enough jades. So they are stuck using gallagher and lynx
I agree with all of your poitns, they are all FACTS! Its wild how with all these CC's nobody made a video fully dedicated to this. Youve earned my sub bro 🔥🔥🔥👏🏻
Other than Bailu and E2 FX, if HSR release an Abundance char that revives with X no. turns cooldown then Abundance might have a higher edge over Preservation char. Right now Aventurine dominates all endgame contents and Su/DU However if Hp drain mechanic becomes much more meta then healers might have higher value than Shield char.
Hoyo really doesn’t know how to make engaging defensive characters, a very recent example will be zenless 1.2 where a defensive limited 5 star caesar king will be released, and she can pretty much cover for other roles like support and stun in that game. A 3 in 1 package if you will, they really need to think about more balanced ways to create characters.
Even though I love my aventurine I realized overtime the flaw of shields and why it’s hard to counter, if all they do is up the damage to get past it then abundance units aren’t as viable. The only way I can think of balancing it is having future enemies counter shields in some aspect to have units like abundance be more attractive. Like 20% of the damage goes through shields. I personally just think it’s kinda boring that you just turn off your brain with preservation units and hope there’s content that helps with that. Aventurine has way too much uptime on his shields. I just want to actually have to worry about dying in harder content besides simulated universe lol but that’s just my weird opinion
From someone who uses starter characters against story enemies and bosses, the preservation problem shows itself like the Kool-Aid man. I only have March 7th and Fire Trailblazer as my only means of defending my team without pulling from the gacha. My only healers I can use are back broken Natasha, Lynx (her e2 is kinda wack now that enemies can spam numerous ailments lol), and Gallagher. At some point these characters will die eventually due to enemies that have 500 SPD and numerous turns if not by my boredom of using the same characters to keep my team alive kek
I mean the way I see it so long as your effective defensive stats (hp, def and other dmg mitigation) are above the oneshot range then healing is better than shielding although just slightly. It becomes how many of these hp a unit can pump out. Since shields can't stack indefinitely (yes they can stack on top of eachother but each char has their limits in the talent) and neither can hp they're equivalent in that regard and the only difference is that shields have a duration but that rarely comes into play (except in gepard's case). If we start both units on 1 hp the healer will 100% it and shielder will put a shield, doesn't matter if rhe healers side drops down to 20% since they'll just heal back up, same as the shielder "healing" their shield. You can say that shielders have a one time use extra hp bar since once you take health dmg with a shielder there is no way to regen that health. It's also unfair to say healers use skill points and shielders don't, it depends on a unit. Both Luocha and Aventurine can run without any sp consumed and both Huohuo and Fu (or march if you care for a shielder) must use sp. And I absolutely think the one thing he just glosses over is the difference of what makes some units op in hsr, things they do in addition to sustain. Pretty much every abundance/preservation char can sustain if they and the team are properly built. The extra things they do is what gives them their value.
I want to see a turn based game where the combat is like you would expect, but the defense is reliant on timing enemy attacks to block them. That would be epic!
A problem regarding skill expression in the game is that , ova there is no need for that(from hoyo perspective) like , you don't compete with anyone, and it does not matter if u 0 cicle or 10 cicle moc for example . Imo it would be so cool to have things like that , more skill expression , more ways to play out the game. And unfortunately , the bigest problem right now is that the combat is way to straight forroword besides sp management there is no skill involved. Maybe with 3.0 we will get something.
there's only so much skill expression you can have in a gacha since what they want the most is to sell you characters, it all comes down to build your team right and done, most of the "skill" part is done outside of combat, (speed tuning, rotation planning, placement and stuff)
If you check persona (the game that HSR got their inspiration from) , you have multiple ways of defending yourself For example: 1: you have a chance to dodge an attack and perform a Follow up 2: performing certain types of heals that increases your max HP 3: blocking certain types of damages depending on what persona your unit wields 4: using certain types of items that prevents you from getting one shotted 5: dealing critical damages or weakness attack results in action forward 6: ordering one unit to form a defensive position and block all the incoming attacks 7: improving your defense greatly by combining certain types of skills 8: some enemies can pierce through your shield so you can use your knowledge of what type of damage the enemy does and perform Special counter attacks or dodge (dodging happens randomly) in order to get action forward or block the attack in order to prevent your team from dying And many other ways that I don't remember
I'm actually quite surprised they still didn't do an direct counter to Shields Like a shield breaker or an enemy that ignores them for the most part (An enemy that focuses on one ally per once like you'd do it with a Hunt character would also work to counter Aventurine since he relies on AoE damage) There's already some enemies that counter Abundance characters, so no reason to not add enemies that directly counter shields
One of my favourite unit archetypes in gaming is dodge tank. They are unexplored but very fun (and rng) Imagine a character that grants like 80% dodge to the entire party while dealing significant damage themselves bc they don't need to build defensive stats. And ult can be similar to Yunli's - guaranteed taunt and block
Hooley was fucking cancer in the story he will attack for days because of how fast he is plus summoning a million enemies (i know i can just use casual mode but fuck that i'am no bitch)
@@justaman4887 Maybe its because i have fu xuan but i actually felts the fight was so easy, he was doing 40 damage for the normal attacks and his special one around 140, yes he attacks alot and each time does multi hits, but i barely felts anything, i wanted the fight to be harder, hoping for hard mode.
The thing is, sustains are not in the party to actually sustain. It was their main goal at the start of the game, but Hoyo don't advertise new ones for this reason nor do you pull for new characters just because you can't survive endgame. Well, at least not after you've already pulled 2 limited ones. The further into the game we go, the more they will become enablers for different team archetypes, just like Aventurine is for FUA and Lingsha/Gallagher is for break, and HuoHuo is for hypercarry. Expect sustains designed for different archetypes (DOT, debuffs, self-buffing DPS, HP manipulation DPS, potential new mechanics like Dissociation for mono-Ice teams) and expect Harmonies and DPSs that sinergy specifically with kits of certain sustains. Just like in Genshin you don't pull for Baizhu or Kokomi, or Xianyun just because you need heals, you pull them to enhance or even make possible certain team types. So, in that sense the difference between shielding and healing doesn't matter. If Hoyo wants you to run certain teams in current endgame, they also know which sustains work for these teams and tune enemies accordingly. As for SU, it certainly caters to specific characters much more, which is frustrating when it's a top-tier shielder like Aventurine, but - every new SU has different blessings and devs are free to rebalance them at any time. They can remove stacking of shields completely and stack overheals instead. It won't change the way characters work, but, hillariously, will turn this whole situation upside down without adding new buttons to battle interface or smth.
The only thing I don't like about shields is that it's very anti synergistic with Blade, one of my favorite characters. I'm considering pulling for a third Promocional Sustain just for that 😅
I mean we don't really have any boss that specifically one shots somebody, so healing it off is no problem. Fu Xuan would still die if she got hit by a huge damage AoE, and Aventurine can't refresh his shield that much if he doesn't get hit and the enemy is single target focus. The main reason why Aventurine is better rn is because he can do damage. And dead enemies = no damage.
the problem with adding more mechanics is that hsr is game made for both more competitive players that want to get in the weeds and more casual players, while adding more options would make the game more fun for competitive players it would reduce the casual player experience and make the game more complex for them possibly driving a lot of them away. For this reason I don't think anything will change like this because they want to straddle the line and keep both audiences.
Well, we have barriers that block all incoming damage once and revival mechanics, both already in the game but heavely underutilized. The problem is that although this mechanics allow a much more engaging and "smart" gameplay, they by far overshadow both healing and shields as they essentially mean one turn invulnerability. Introducing them into a meta would be a terrible power creep, much more than any other so far. The overheal may is basically the same, although it's probably easier to balance. My guess is that we will have a turn-denial meta at some point as it will allow more characters stay relevant for a longer time and fits the current trend (summons and follow-ups).
I think the thing that would make it to where healers shine over preservation units is to lean more on status infliction from enemies. Crowd control or Dots that wear down at shields, but make it to where healers shine (except Bailu) due to being able to cleanse off bad status. In the worst case give enemies cleanse. I personally think Aventurine is violently overtuned, and while Fu xuan is pretty busted as well I at least feel like she can be worn down.
I believe healers gain more relevance with destruction characters. If they release more chunky DPS who can withstand 1 shot like Blade and Firefly, or a DPS that can increase his Max hp with overflow healing and his dmg is full hp based that will make healers like Luocha that heals a metric ton come back to the meta.
My short answer NO : there are only 2 top level Preservation, Fu Xuan and Aventurine Without one, finishing SimUni (G&G and SD) is an utter pain in the ass relying on Blessings and Relics RNG = No Fun For just the cost of one 5*, make your journey easier and don't miss either of these 2 strongholds return ! (Aventurine in 2.6 ?)
maybe giving the player 3 or 2 new buttons would be great aswell. One button to guard so that characters can mitigate 20%-50% of incomming dmg while being skill point neutral (what ever % is the most balanced) and another skill for each character that does something else. Heck, nihility or abundance dmg down debuffs aswell, while making one preservatie that plays a bit more with defense stat of other characters.
Adding extra complexity to the game like this probably won’t going to happen. Auto-battle is a feature used by a big chunk of player. Overhaul this system to take into new complexity is very difficult. Despite this may be healthier for the game, investing in the gameplay and character will be more profitable (which is the main driving force here). If the game stay relevant till a new system is warranted, it will happen, but it’s definitely not now.
Overall a really good Video youve earmed my Sub. The Problem i have in General is the Balancing. Its hard to compare HSR with your Average Single Player Turn Based RPG cause the balancing is by far not competable due to the Gacha Aspect.
I'll be honest excluding SU, so far the only premium shielder we have is aventurine, and besides having a thick wall and doing FuA which helps feixiao's team, he doesn't really do a lot, his ult gives 15% CDMG sure that's nice and all, but compare it to something like huo huo giving you 20% energy and 40% atk for 2 turns, or gallagher dealing a shitload of toughness damage and increasing break damage of the team, it's not like abundance characters are inferior, it all comes down to how much value the units bring BESIDES survivability, cause look if your aventurine's shields are thick but the team still takes forever to kill the boss, then he's not really doing much for you now is he?
Outside of high level sim universe, i don’t think shield is infinitely better than healing. The only shield that surpasses conventional healers are Aventurine’s, and Aventurine only specifically. Bailu is a lot more sp positive than Gepard, and lynx/gallagher is much better than FTB/march from sustaining alone. Fuxuan doesn’t give you a shield let’s be honest, it’s not the same. Outside of that, the enemies still don’t do enough damage where you could get near one shotted in endgame, 5 star healers will keep your health near full most of the time, even huohuo with her sup par healing for a 5 star is good enough. Some people wants the healers to be given “overheal” mechanic, but that will just make them preservation 2.0 and i see no point of doing that. I use sustain for their utility for the most part, but sure, game too easy, just slap anyone with damage mitigation including Bailu and just full auto it with your eyes closed. All they need to do is to introduce shield penetrating enemies to cripple Aventurine tbh, though i’m sure no one would like that like how no one likes the wolves from Genshin.
well here is my small yap i personally don't have any problem with 2 units being strong but THE FACT THAT I LOST 3 5050's in a row (if i lost the 4th am out of the game completely) without anything i can do is kinda bad and that comes to getting these preservation units let's say for example that you have 5 star dps and a 5 star sustain unit you will probably have better chances of getting the dps but then you will realize that you have to get a sustain that you will lose your 5050 on and then you only viable option is gallagher. WE NEED MORE 4 STAR GOOD CHARACTERS
It may be unrelatable, but my built sustains don't provide shields and I don't really have sustain problems unless I am deep in Simulated Universe endgame (Like Swarm Disaster or Golden gears). Apocaliptic Shadow can sometimes be problematic in that regard. Unless new enemies appear that ignore shields, Aventurine a any future sustain character that provides shields will be preferred over healers most of the time. I do agree that a character that provides stackable shields that block a single instance of damage provides a solution for certain enemies.
This is more a problem to weak characters from hunt and erudition and ones from Nihility. Normally Supports, destruction doesn't have defense problems so Abundance is pretty good but it's not like that you need abundance, most the times is just for the kit synergy.
Well I fought argenti at probably around 30-40 even lv50 and my answer to him was use a fucking 300+ Atk buff item and nuke him with dot units cause shields don't matter when the dude hits like a truck I just heal back up hopefully he dosent do it again.
Ngl they need to balance how the shields works in this game its so broken it acts as a exceeded hp you wouldn't even need any abundance character thanks to preservation units that would literally make you immortal in end game contents i hope they would add new enemies that could at least penetrate through shields. Just look at SAM (boss) correct me if im wrong last time i fight that kamen rider my Gall. Heals just so useless i think he got some kind of heal reduction which is obviously want you to pull for aventurine. man i love this game😂
Yes this is becoming a problem. This same reason is why Lingsha didn't appeal to me idc how much she heals a lot of enemies one shot my units in the hardest contents so I'd rather wait for Aventurine the top 1 sustain than pull for a healer. I've learned from having Luocha like I do use him still and he's very well built but if a enemy one shots me the amount of healing doesn't matter.
not even moc 12 can oneshot characters getting oneshot is a sign that 1)You're under leveled, 2) Your relics aren't minimum +15 (No subs, mind you, just main stats), 3) your lightcone has no levels. that changes in DU8 or GNG12, but at that point even Aven and FX need bonus defensive blessings to survive.
the game is easy,the only 5 star limited Sustain I have is Luocha since 1.1 and I haven't had any problems I even play Moc on Auto to prove my point I started a new account in 2.1 I was able to finish every single endgame with max stars in 2.3 the only time the game is hard is when you want to 0C other than that no
I have Huo Huo and Gallagher as my sustains and I 36 * MOC and 12 * AS and PF on a regular basis and also cleared GG, SD, SU and Im only missing DU 6 which I havent really had the time to dedicate to clearing it.
I literally don’t see any problem with this. Other games do shield like this too, if it doesn’t block damage but just lower your damage taken, what’s the difference between this and defense buff then? Maybe cos I play a lot of games, this is just normal RTA day in Epic Seven
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It is literally IMPOSSIBLE to get past the hardest levels of the Simulated Universe without a shield since no matter how good your healer is it is useless if the enemy kills your characters in 1-2 hits.
I predict that in the future they will start:
- Making healers capable of converting overheal into Max Health or Damage Reduction
- Making enemies capable of going through or nullifying shields to motivate the use of healers.
Also about why we dont have more Preservation Characters, i think they kinda peaked to soon with Fu Xuan and Aventurine since they are just TO GOOD and they are afraid of powercreeeping them and break the game
the thing is, there are enough blessings/curios/equations/etc in SU and DU to where those shields don't have to come from your characters, and the enemies hit hard enough that even full def aventurine players will still need to pick up blessings that buff shields to not get 1-2 shot. SU/DU just isn't balanced around base characters, you're not killing a boss with 1280% extra HP before it kills you with any dps if you don't pick up the right blessings
@@theseventhsheep9724Even if you are loaded with Blessings of Abundance this won't prevent your team from being One-Shotted by the final boss while with Preservation at the end of the run you are practically immortal.
Even taking Blessings and Curios into consideration doesn't change the fact that Shields are superior 9 times out of 10 since at the end of the day preventing damage will always be superior.
@@Truck-kun11 i'm talking about getting preservation blessings that give you shields even if you run a healer. there also are blessings that increase your max hp, and those still can be enough to prevent a one-shot, while your healer + the resonance heal you up
i agree that shields are generally better, my point was just that you don't need characters to give you them, so long as you play SU correct. the stats are so inflated in SU that at the higher levels especially, you need to squeeze out every bit of dmg and sustain possible
@@theseventhsheep9724I agree, but my point is not that you need characters that give shilds, but that you need shilds in general.
Not using shilds is not a option since healing alone is just not enought and that is a problem since they should be balanced.
@@Truck-kun11 my point on needing to bring characters or not came from how i think abundance and preservation units themselves are balanced, rather than raw shields vs healing.
of course, when enemies get as strong as they do in SU, one-shotting becomes an issue, and so shields will inevitably be stronger. even if shields in this game acted as a "will save you fully from the dmg of x number of hits" rather than HP overflow, that issue would still exist. for that reason, i think it's more worth to compare the sustain units themselves, and in that regard abundance and preservation still feel very balanced to me, since even if your shielder can save you from one hit, unless you stack blessings on them, your team will still take some damage every time and be killed off.
Hoyo will most likely just make a 5* overheal abundance that will heal a lot and compensate for lost health from overheal provided (basically working like a shield) and not look at the problem any further
I actually think it’d be cooler if that was a Harmony character. You can over heal into higher max hp, and the higher your max hp is, the higher the buff from the harmony character. Would be a really cool blade support
@@adamnguyen966 harmony is already overloaded as is
@@duck_smuggler There are only 3 harmony 5 stars? Also, a overheal mechanic wouldn’t come until 3.0 anyways
Using Lingshua in the Wardance makes it seem that she is able to heal pretty frequently but even still I got nervous a couple times and even lost someone on one fight
@@adamnguyen966 And they're all broken in their own way. We don't need more power given to harmony when nihility and abundance are both struggling already.
I haven't watched the video yet but is it because shields count as a additional hp bar that allows supports to invest more in offensive stats
It’s actually because how much you heal doesn’t matter if you just get one shot. Mitigation is best in this game
Star Rail is not souls game, if you find a unit too strong don't get them
@@MystraThat's a terrible comparison.
In souls people literally choose the most OP weapons to beat the game easily, and people who want a challenge use weapons they just enjoy
HSR is a gacha game, if you love a character but don't like how they play then it can be annoying
Also it's not about any particular character, its about that healing is just worse than shields, and they should be more equal
I think the problem is that specifically Adventurine and Fu Xuan are insanely good, not so much shields. Gepard, March 7th, and Fire Trailblazer can all give shields but for the energy/skill points cost its not worth it in most cases. The whole Preservation Path was pretty useless until those 2 came around. Shields arent that good in Star Rail, but Adventurine's shields are really good.
the main reason Gepard, March 7th, and Fire Trailblazer shields also arent that good is because by default shields do not stack, if they changed that they might shine some more
Fu Xuan has fallen off, actually. Should be Tier 1, Prydwen overrate her
@@Mystra too many fuxuan glazers ngl, she barely does anything. Surprised that some people think she's better than aven
The issue is that the two Preservation characters, being Aventurine and Fu Xuan, provides something in utility other than making your characters survivable. It's either:
1. Shields that stack with talent with an innate 50% effect res
2. Skill from FX that basically relocates most of the damage to FX, along with one time CC and free 12% crit rate, and that it lasts as long as FX turns go.
Which Gepard could barely provide much for the team, which is shields but that's it. Yes, you have taunt increase on him in base. But that doesn't change how good Aventurine is compared to him, or how flexible is FX compared to her.
Shields are stronger than heals unless you have some overheal mechanic that would temp increase hitpoints it will not be equal
the moment we get a healer that overcaps your max hp and acumulates the amount of healing you get so u deal more damage, that day, me and all the Bladie mains will finally be happy
Boothill also has a taunt as part of his skill, so that makes three playable characters instead of two.
And march's shield can also taunt for the chosen ally
@@procastinatedso can Lynx with her skill
March and Lynx don’t taunt though. They increase a character's aggro number, but taunt is a debuff that *guarantees* hits.
@@eddiemate almost the same thing in practice
@@mrartezi2667 play tingyun with blade and an aggro increaser and you'll find out it's really not lol
Honestly suprised they just havent added an enemy that does more damage to shields in the game or something that eats through shields to your real health like those wolves from genshin.
Atm i think Lynx is the only healer that overheals by increasing max hp but its only to one person so its only really beneficial on blade tbh.
Bailu can do it too, "When Bailu heals a target ally above their normal Max HP, the target's Max HP increases by 10% for 2 turns.".
And funny you say they did not add a enemy that deals more damage to shields since they added the opposite of that, the monkey that takes damage from shields when attacks them.
SAM does that though? (Eating health while having shield) except it's when we consume SP, as an Aventurine main this does not make me happy although this hasn't been a big issue for me since his shields are that strong
So I have a whale team, E6 Clara S3 , E0 Yunli, E1 Robin, and E2 Feixiao. Clara E6 anytime an enemy attacks my team 50% chance of Clara counter, her Sig LC she heals everytime she attacks, Yunli heals when she Ults, Robin in Ult can’t be CC’d neither can Yunli, my Clara and Yunli do non stop counter attacks and heal themselves, meanwhile Feixiao already has 12 stacks and my Robin is buffing the ever loving shit out of everyone. Pure destruction
Yunli also heals thru skill too
the only way I see hsr making healers relevant again is if they release a character like Furina or introduce enemies that can ignore shields 😭aven and fuxuan are way more comfortable to use atm
A hsr Furina is the right way to revive both blade/jingliu and abundance value
@@Matiaspanralladothis would help so many characters I wish it could happen
I think the best way to do it is make abundance give extra utility. aventurine and fx give some crit, yes, but huohuo energy regen + er and Gallagher's insane toughness bar nuking and SP generation provide much more (as stated by the video)
So, preservation = keeping team alive easily
Abundance = keeping team alive a little worse, but also with utility. I find myself using gal over aven because of the utility he provides
In Genshin it works bc you can still dodge boss attacks, but imangine HSR Furina draining your HP before a boss attack and you don’t have heal and can’t dodge
@@danusorn8655 hp drain + max hp buff. fixes/helps blade and aids the draining issue
I'm day one gepard user and still going. I never realize how broken aventurine till I count the sp uses. He's basically can refresh every turn while gepard with need to spend 2 sp to make sure he gets perfect uptime
Gepard is known for his clunky shield uptime. The reason why the release of sustain like luocha on earlier days makes gepard more undesirable. Fu xuan release basically put gepard on bench..🥹. Apart from the simulated universe he just got out performance by other sustainers.
Still he still got slot in SU. And may be better than adventurine with how gud erudition blessings that grab. Uptime is not a prob
I just hope healers can keep up with aventurine. Like an artifact set that can increase defense or max HP of allies when healed. You can’t not have a reviving feature and then make the enemies so strong that they kill the allies before they have a chance to react.
I'm sorry, I wish you did not bring awareness to this issue. I am very comfy with my Aventurine team comp and prefer if it can last for a very long time. I don't really want further challenges atm because real life issues rn and I don't want to face building another sustain unit that powercreeps Aventurine.
You've been chilling for way to long with ur gambler👹👹👹
I feel like dance dance dance and harmonies are a bigger issue than this take. Sustains really only play a role in du and su. wind set and ddd shows use sustain is just slowing damage down unless you have like e6 adventurine
I’ve had this worry about Aventurine for awhile now so I’m glad I wasn’t the only one to disagree on how they handle his kit. Honestly your suggestion where you give up a turn to basically just block is something I hope they introduce to this game. Turn based are already linear by nature so I don’t see why they have implemented some sort of.. guard that gains no SP just so we can survive a boss nuke
In your opinion would you say pulling Aventurine flattens the difficulty for most accounts that have him?
i genuinely dont understand why shields couldn't be treated as akin to a buff -- aka make it expire after a set number of turns, and have it have similar interactions aka you can dispel shields entirely, make it so your opponent cant accept friendly buffs, etc.
They do tho.
They expire After 3 turns, granted Aventurine Refreshes his so often you never notice when playing with him
Expiring shield wss really noticeable during release when people were playing Seele Bronya lol. Say good bye to your shield after just one rotation.
Either you never used any shileder on your playthrough or your first shielder is Aventurine
This is literally how is do y’all ever do research before posting something stupid 😊
@@jayupnext5890yeah low iq moment fr 🤡
Well, one of the inspirations for HSR is Trails series and that's exactly how shields work in them to the point that you need them no matter what in the endgame/higher difficulties unless you use a massive dmg nuke build, likewise a 100% dodge build or delay build can work but gets less useful. This is because Trails has enemies that ignore shields (or just do so much dmg it goes through shields and half your HP), enemies that ignore dodge chance and can ignore delay effects. In prev Trails games, it was pretty easy af to make EVERYONE have the same build (I beat Reverie with everyone having 100% dodge for example while also having MCs nuking everything), Daybreak kinda changed that with its build system and the builds were more doable midgame though.
What can HSR do for more dmg besides having enemies with multiple attacks? Shield Penetration (% of dmg goes through no matter what), True Damage (dmg that cannot be reduced by DEF thus incentivizing more HP builds teams), %HP attacks (thus incentivizing more DEF builds teams), more enemies with FUA (only shield guys from Belobog have em), more enemies with delay attacks (again, I think only 2 enemy types have em), enemies with their own ults that can interrupt turns just like we do them.
Likewise for sustains; they can add a char with a dodge mechanic (that goes dwn the more you dodge thus having to reapply it more), healing through DoTs (it's a blessing in SU already so just give it to an actual char), another char with revive mechanic, healing through attacking (attack enemy, heal whole team), convert HP to shields or vice versa.
I know peeps hated it with Acheron but also force characters to have specialized teams like her needing 2 NIH; have a character that needs more path variety in their team to be optimal or even legit a SPECIFIC character.
Those are good ideas! One of my friends is heavily addicted to trails and tells me about it so I'm pretty familiar with how those games work - I think a lot of the mechanics from those games like shield ignore/etc or adding in something new like dodging would be a great addition to the game. I guess Moze is kinda similar to that since he takes himself out of the action bar? Neat to think about regardless.
The final yapper 💀💀💀
If enemies penetrate your shields and you don't have a way to heal. OK so maybe think next time before you post because that would literally make Aventurine useless. Who wants to run a shielder and abundance on the team? Nobody. Stop regurgitation of bad ideas.
while i agree shields are generally better than healing in HSR, so long as either healing or shields work in content like MOC, PF, and AS, i don't really see a problem. healing allows you to keep your units at full HP while shielding lets you tank bigger hits even when you aren't full. you mention how a unit with barely any HP could still last so long as they have a shield, but the same is true if that unit was just healed. moreover, if your shield was low, you'd still need to refresh it (taking the same resources as a healer). i think the issue is just that aventurine specifically is just the strongest sustain in the game rn, so shields seem better. no one talked about shields when the best unit we had for them was gepard, bc shielding along isn't enough to make a sustain great.
as for sim u, there are enough ways to get shields (and other sustain options) through the blessings that i don't see it as an issue there either. obviously it can feel bad to need to get those sustain cards over damage ones, but the enemy stats are so inflated in sim u that of course going in with no strategy won't go well. the new healing overflow > shield curio seems like a sign that hoyo knows that if they increase enemy dmg, they need to keep healers functional and new options will be created for that
@theseventhsheep9724 Hey thanks for the comment!
My real concern(if you could call it that, this is mostly just a discussion video) is that the only two preservation characters released are definitely a level above most other units in terms of keeping your team alive - aventurine rarely has to skill in most content + fu xuan is fu xuan, compared to huohuo who needs to be skilling often to keep her passive healing active & refresh her ult.
It might feel like aventurine is an outlier, but what happens when the inevitable next preservation releases with a kit just as strong or stronger than theirs?
Agreed on the aim universe point, there's definitely options and hopefully hoyo does move in the right direction there with the healing blessings/curios
@@fl2ur i can definitely see your point, i just wonder how much of the issue you see right now is coming from the specific units we have at the moment. you mention huohuo, but one of her limitations has always been that her healing isn't massive, so i feel like she isn't the best example of a healer. luocha (while far from perfect as a unit) is still a super comfy healer with his talent heal + frequent heals on teammate attacks. when comparing him to aven and fuxuan, unless you have 2300 hp teammates, i don't see any big difference. of course, in those cases where you have super squishy supports, a shielder would be nice, but basically every support except maybe tingyun and robin can give their full value with an HP/DEF body/orb.
i guess we'll have to see with new enemies, but even then with at least the next boss in hoolay, he feels designed more for lingsha than any future shielder
@@theseventhsheep9724Hoolay actually is perfect for aventurine with frequent AOE atks.
@@hypemaddox yes, aven is def good against him, i was more using him as an example since lingsha will also be great against him, showing how both healers and shielders can have good match ups
@@theseventhsheep9724 Lingsha suffers in that fight simply cause she isn't fast enough to keep up with Hoolay if he enters the bloodthirsty state (Her emergency heal trigger is high enough you can easily waste and without ult you are pretty much screwed)
Aventurine havers: *laugh maniacally
I believe there is a blessing that delays enemies turn when you do flow up attack, its very useful with feixiao
kinda wish hsr’s combat system wasnt so one dimensional
like an elemental reaction system but in hsr would be cool
Yes Aventurine is the only MUST character on the team you can comp with any of the other characters. I main Acheron teams and I HIGHLY recommend getting a 5* lightcone for him (I use Gepard’s since I pulled it but I’m sure his signature is better for him) he basically refreshes the shield every round at 80 with most of his traces maxed. I don’t even have that good of relics on him and only at +10 and I’m f2p.
Genshin had the same "problem" and they made enemies who could bypass the shields, they will probably do the same here, making healers a must for one or two rotations
That's definitely an route I could see them going down, honestly I'm surprised they haven't yet
The thing is that there are no alternatives that already exist. You mentioned taunt but realistically how many bosses use single target attack as their big stronk? Maybe Lofu's monke, a couple of centaurs, Hoolay and that's about it. Aventurine does aoe, Kafka does aoe, Phantylia- aoe, Dragon does...something, Sam aoe as well.
imagine if to balance shields they just made it so that you can't get energy from getting hit lol
They only need to create enemies that can pierce shields.
Is pretty common in most of RPGs
@@Yawar25new rifthound enemy
You've played a warrior tank in WoW before, haven't you?
Hoyo: We have shields and heals...
Me: How about dodging and blocking?
Hoyo: Never heard of it...
The dev talked about dodge already. Aventurine was planned to be a Dodge Support giving all teammates a Dodge Chance to Go with the Gamble thematic. But during testing they realised that it feels shit to play to restart because you got unlucky with dodging. They would have to make it overpowered so that having to restart has a big enough reward if it does work in your favor. And blocking dmg as we can see in SI is shit. It's just a bad version of Shielding since 5 star sustains should be able to sustain you a shield will always be able to protect you why have a dmg block if best case it abssorbs a strong hit or worse it absorbs just a minion Attack. When shields and heals already full sustain in endgame
i think a preservation aeon that makes tanks do dmg would be broken and funny
The one complaint that i have with this is that you said "chose to bring (abundance unit) instead of (preservation unit) some people may have lost their aventurine and fu xuan 50/50's or just didnt have enough jades. So they are stuck using gallagher and lynx
thinking about how i wouldve dropped the game if i didnt get fu xuan. no sustain was getting me through any of the game modes and gepard is abhorrent
I agree with all of your poitns, they are all FACTS! Its wild how with all these CC's nobody made a video fully dedicated to this. Youve earned my sub bro 🔥🔥🔥👏🏻
Other than Bailu and E2 FX, if HSR release an Abundance char that revives with X no. turns cooldown then Abundance might have a higher edge over Preservation char. Right now Aventurine dominates all endgame contents and Su/DU
However if Hp drain mechanic becomes much more meta then healers might have higher value than Shield char.
Hoyo really doesn’t know how to make engaging defensive characters, a very recent example will be zenless 1.2 where a defensive limited 5 star caesar king will be released, and she can pretty much cover for other roles like support and stun in that game. A 3 in 1 package if you will, they really need to think about more balanced ways to create characters.
No. That's the job of sustains. And especially for a limited 5 star, it should be op. We don't pull anyone to have mid shields.
Even though I love my aventurine I realized overtime the flaw of shields and why it’s hard to counter, if all they do is up the damage to get past it then abundance units aren’t as viable.
The only way I can think of balancing it is having future enemies counter shields in some aspect to have units like abundance be more attractive. Like 20% of the damage goes through shields.
I personally just think it’s kinda boring that you just turn off your brain with preservation units and hope there’s content that helps with that. Aventurine has way too much uptime on his shields.
I just want to actually have to worry about dying in harder content besides simulated universe lol but that’s just my weird opinion
From someone who uses starter characters against story enemies and bosses, the preservation problem shows itself like the Kool-Aid man. I only have March 7th and Fire Trailblazer as my only means of defending my team without pulling from the gacha. My only healers I can use are back broken Natasha, Lynx (her e2 is kinda wack now that enemies can spam numerous ailments lol), and Gallagher. At some point these characters will die eventually due to enemies that have 500 SPD and numerous turns if not by my boredom of using the same characters to keep my team alive kek
i got this after being pummled to death in v6 with fu xuan 💀 very good points
I mean the way I see it so long as your effective defensive stats (hp, def and other dmg mitigation) are above the oneshot range then healing is better than shielding although just slightly. It becomes how many of these hp a unit can pump out. Since shields can't stack indefinitely (yes they can stack on top of eachother but each char has their limits in the talent) and neither can hp they're equivalent in that regard and the only difference is that shields have a duration but that rarely comes into play (except in gepard's case). If we start both units on 1 hp the healer will 100% it and shielder will put a shield, doesn't matter if rhe healers side drops down to 20% since they'll just heal back up, same as the shielder "healing" their shield. You can say that shielders have a one time use extra hp bar since once you take health dmg with a shielder there is no way to regen that health.
It's also unfair to say healers use skill points and shielders don't, it depends on a unit. Both Luocha and Aventurine can run without any sp consumed and both Huohuo and Fu (or march if you care for a shielder) must use sp.
And I absolutely think the one thing he just glosses over is the difference of what makes some units op in hsr, things they do in addition to sustain. Pretty much every abundance/preservation char can sustain if they and the team are properly built. The extra things they do is what gives them their value.
I want to see a turn based game where the combat is like you would expect, but the defense is reliant on timing enemy attacks to block them. That would be epic!
A problem regarding skill expression in the game is that , ova there is no need for that(from hoyo perspective) like , you don't compete with anyone, and it does not matter if u 0 cicle or 10 cicle moc for example . Imo it would be so cool to have things like that , more skill expression , more ways to play out the game. And unfortunately , the bigest problem right now is that the combat is way to straight forroword besides sp management there is no skill involved. Maybe with 3.0 we will get something.
there's only so much skill expression you can have in a gacha since what they want the most is to sell you characters, it all comes down to build your team right and done, most of the "skill" part is done outside of combat, (speed tuning, rotation planning, placement and stuff)
It's a turn based gacha game. There's only so much skill issue before it converts into a build issue.
If you check persona (the game that HSR got their inspiration from) , you have multiple ways of defending yourself
For example: 1: you have a chance to dodge an attack and perform a Follow up
2: performing certain types of heals that increases your max HP
3: blocking certain types of damages depending on what persona your unit wields
4: using certain types of items that prevents you from getting one shotted
5: dealing critical damages or weakness attack results in action forward
6: ordering one unit to form a defensive position and block all the incoming attacks
7: improving your defense greatly by combining certain types of skills
8: some enemies can pierce through your shield so you can use your knowledge of what type of damage the enemy does and perform Special counter attacks or dodge (dodging happens randomly) in order to get action forward or block the attack in order to prevent your team from dying
And many other ways that I don't remember
I'm actually quite surprised they still didn't do an direct counter to Shields
Like a shield breaker or an enemy that ignores them for the most part (An enemy that focuses on one ally per once like you'd do it with a Hunt character would also work to counter Aventurine since he relies on AoE damage)
There's already some enemies that counter Abundance characters, so no reason to not add enemies that directly counter shields
One of my favourite unit archetypes in gaming is dodge tank. They are unexplored but very fun (and rng)
Imagine a character that grants like 80% dodge to the entire party while dealing significant damage themselves bc they don't need to build defensive stats. And ult can be similar to Yunli's - guaranteed taunt and block
Hooley was fucking cancer in the story he will attack for days because of how fast he is plus summoning a million enemies (i know i can just use casual mode but fuck that i'am no bitch)
The Fight in the Story was Scripted so you was suppose to lose. Even in the MoC Hooley Boss Leaks he wasnt THAT fast.
@@DantoriusD you have to beat both phases first if i remember correctly
@@DantoriusD plus i really hope he's nerfed in his moc because that was beyond ridiculous
@@justaman4887 Maybe its because i have fu xuan but i actually felts the fight was so easy, he was doing 40 damage for the normal attacks and his special one around 140, yes he attacks alot and each time does multi hits, but i barely felts anything, i wanted the fight to be harder, hoping for hard mode.
The thing is, sustains are not in the party to actually sustain. It was their main goal at the start of the game, but Hoyo don't advertise new ones for this reason nor do you pull for new characters just because you can't survive endgame. Well, at least not after you've already pulled 2 limited ones. The further into the game we go, the more they will become enablers for different team archetypes, just like Aventurine is for FUA and Lingsha/Gallagher is for break, and HuoHuo is for hypercarry. Expect sustains designed for different archetypes (DOT, debuffs, self-buffing DPS, HP manipulation DPS, potential new mechanics like Dissociation for mono-Ice teams) and expect Harmonies and DPSs that sinergy specifically with kits of certain sustains. Just like in Genshin you don't pull for Baizhu or Kokomi, or Xianyun just because you need heals, you pull them to enhance or even make possible certain team types.
So, in that sense the difference between shielding and healing doesn't matter. If Hoyo wants you to run certain teams in current endgame, they also know which sustains work for these teams and tune enemies accordingly. As for SU, it certainly caters to specific characters much more, which is frustrating when it's a top-tier shielder like Aventurine, but - every new SU has different blessings and devs are free to rebalance them at any time. They can remove stacking of shields completely and stack overheals instead. It won't change the way characters work, but, hillariously, will turn this whole situation upside down without adding new buttons to battle interface or smth.
The only thing I don't like about shields is that it's very anti synergistic with Blade, one of my favorite characters.
I'm considering pulling for a third Promocional Sustain just for that 😅
I mean we don't really have any boss that specifically one shots somebody, so healing it off is no problem.
Fu Xuan would still die if she got hit by a huge damage AoE, and Aventurine can't refresh his shield that much if he doesn't get hit and the enemy is single target focus.
The main reason why Aventurine is better rn is because he can do damage. And dead enemies = no damage.
the problem with adding more mechanics is that hsr is game made for both more competitive players that want to get in the weeds and more casual players, while adding more options would make the game more fun for competitive players it would reduce the casual player experience and make the game more complex for them possibly driving a lot of them away. For this reason I don't think anything will change like this because they want to straddle the line and keep both audiences.
healer's honest reaction when they hit tingyun 4 times in a row:
Lmao, welcome back zhongli issue
Well, we have barriers that block all incoming damage once and revival mechanics, both already in the game but heavely underutilized.
The problem is that although this mechanics allow a much more engaging and "smart" gameplay, they by far overshadow both healing and shields as they essentially mean one turn invulnerability. Introducing them into a meta would be a terrible power creep, much more than any other so far. The overheal may is basically the same, although it's probably easier to balance.
My guess is that we will have a turn-denial meta at some point as it will allow more characters stay relevant for a longer time and fits the current trend (summons and follow-ups).
I think the thing that would make it to where healers shine over preservation units is to lean more on status infliction from enemies. Crowd control or Dots that wear down at shields, but make it to where healers shine (except Bailu) due to being able to cleanse off bad status. In the worst case give enemies cleanse.
I personally think Aventurine is violently overtuned, and while Fu xuan is pretty busted as well I at least feel like she can be worn down.
I believe healers gain more relevance with destruction characters. If they release more chunky DPS who can withstand 1 shot like Blade and Firefly, or a DPS that can increase his Max hp with overflow healing and his dmg is full hp based that will make healers like Luocha that heals a metric ton come back to the meta.
Shields are fine, lemme enjoy this playstyle
My short answer NO : there are only 2 top level Preservation, Fu Xuan and Aventurine
Without one, finishing SimUni (G&G and SD) is an utter pain in the ass relying on Blessings and Relics RNG = No Fun
For just the cost of one 5*, make your journey easier and don't miss either of these 2 strongholds return ! (Aventurine in 2.6 ?)
I think preservation should be the best sustains, and abundance is a mix between preservation and harmony (huohuo is a great example)
Just make some enemies that ignores shield
maybe giving the player 3 or 2 new buttons would be great aswell. One button to guard so that characters can mitigate 20%-50% of incomming dmg while being skill point neutral (what ever % is the most balanced) and another skill for each character that does something else. Heck, nihility or abundance dmg down debuffs aswell, while making one preservatie that plays a bit more with defense stat of other characters.
Adding extra complexity to the game like this probably won’t going to happen. Auto-battle is a feature used by a big chunk of player. Overhaul this system to take into new complexity is very difficult. Despite this may be healthier for the game, investing in the gameplay and character will be more profitable (which is the main driving force here). If the game stay relevant till a new system is warranted, it will happen, but it’s definitely not now.
Overall a really good Video youve earmed my Sub. The Problem i have in General is the Balancing. Its hard to compare HSR with your Average Single Player Turn Based RPG cause the balancing is by far not competable due to the Gacha Aspect.
I'll be honest excluding SU, so far the only premium shielder we have is aventurine, and besides having a thick wall and doing FuA which helps feixiao's team, he doesn't really do a lot, his ult gives 15% CDMG sure that's nice and all, but compare it to something like huo huo giving you 20% energy and 40% atk for 2 turns, or gallagher dealing a shitload of toughness damage and increasing break damage of the team, it's not like abundance characters are inferior, it all comes down to how much value the units bring BESIDES survivability, cause look if your aventurine's shields are thick but the team still takes forever to kill the boss, then he's not really doing much for you now is he?
Outside of high level sim universe, i don’t think shield is infinitely better than healing. The only shield that surpasses conventional healers are Aventurine’s, and Aventurine only specifically. Bailu is a lot more sp positive than Gepard, and lynx/gallagher is much better than FTB/march from sustaining alone. Fuxuan doesn’t give you a shield let’s be honest, it’s not the same. Outside of that, the enemies still don’t do enough damage where you could get near one shotted in endgame, 5 star healers will keep your health near full most of the time, even huohuo with her sup par healing for a 5 star is good enough. Some people wants the healers to be given “overheal” mechanic, but that will just make them preservation 2.0 and i see no point of doing that. I use sustain for their utility for the most part, but sure, game too easy, just slap anyone with damage mitigation including Bailu and just full auto it with your eyes closed. All they need to do is to introduce shield penetrating enemies to cripple Aventurine tbh, though i’m sure no one would like that like how no one likes the wolves from Genshin.
well here is my small yap
i personally don't have any problem with 2 units being strong but THE FACT THAT I LOST 3 5050's in a row (if i lost the 4th am out of the game completely) without anything i can do is kinda bad and that comes to getting these preservation units let's say for example that you have 5 star dps and a 5 star sustain unit you will probably have better chances of getting the dps but then you will realize that you have to get a sustain that you will lose your 5050 on and then you only viable option is gallagher. WE NEED MORE 4 STAR GOOD CHARACTERS
Me who cabt clear swarm 3 despite having a full firefly team, does good damage but dies
Tl;DR Aventurine is so broken its insane.
It may be unrelatable, but my built sustains don't provide shields and I don't really have sustain problems unless I am deep in Simulated Universe endgame (Like Swarm Disaster or Golden gears). Apocaliptic Shadow can sometimes be problematic in that regard.
Unless new enemies appear that ignore shields, Aventurine a any future sustain character that provides shields will be preferred over healers most of the time. I do agree that a character that provides stackable shields that block a single instance of damage provides a solution for certain enemies.
This is more a problem to weak characters from hunt and erudition and ones from Nihility. Normally Supports, destruction doesn't have defense problems so Abundance is pretty good but it's not like that you need abundance, most the times is just for the kit synergy.
Well I fought argenti at probably around 30-40 even lv50 and my answer to him was use a fucking 300+ Atk buff item and nuke him with dot units cause shields don't matter when the dude hits like a truck I just heal back up hopefully he dosent do it again.
Ngl they need to balance how the shields works in this game its so broken it acts as a exceeded hp you wouldn't even need any abundance character thanks to preservation units that would literally make you immortal in end game contents i hope they would add new enemies that could at least penetrate through shields. Just look at SAM (boss) correct me if im wrong last time i fight that kamen rider my Gall. Heals just so useless i think he got some kind of heal reduction which is obviously want you to pull for aventurine. man i love this game😂
I need to put Fu xuan and HuoHuo in the same team to keep my kafka and archeron alive. Omg.
shield ignoring enemy:
Yes this is becoming a problem. This same reason is why Lingsha didn't appeal to me idc how much she heals a lot of enemies one shot my units in the hardest contents so I'd rather wait for Aventurine the top 1 sustain than pull for a healer. I've learned from having Luocha like I do use him still and he's very well built but if a enemy one shots me the amount of healing doesn't matter.
not even moc 12 can oneshot characters
getting oneshot is a sign that 1)You're under leveled, 2) Your relics aren't minimum +15 (No subs, mind you, just main stats), 3) your lightcone has no levels.
that changes in DU8 or GNG12, but at that point even Aven and FX need bonus defensive blessings to survive.
I think they will make mobs that strip shields or penetrate them
sheild still good as damage mitagation , healing for me , it should guarantee to cleanse debuff. not just restore hp.
We need shield shred opponents.
i dont use shielders. i only use healers. and i can auto clear moc, apoc, and pf day 1.
the game is easy,the only 5 star limited Sustain I have is Luocha since 1.1 and I haven't had any problems I even play Moc on Auto
to prove my point I started a new account in 2.1 I was able to finish every single endgame with max stars in 2.3
the only time the game is hard is when you want to 0C other than that no
Which units are you using in your 2nd Account?
@@sakutaro3musik486
Acheron Robin Pela Aventurine
Firefly Bronya HarmonyMC Gallagher
I have Huo Huo and Gallagher as my sustains and I 36 * MOC and 12 * AS and PF on a regular basis and also cleared GG, SD, SU and Im only missing DU 6 which I havent really had the time to dedicate to clearing it.
i use huohuo and gepard and i can do the same, still trying to clear v8 though
I somehow cleared protocol 7 but cannot clear conudrum 4..
I literally don’t see any problem with this.
Other games do shield like this too, if it doesn’t block damage but just lower your damage taken, what’s the difference between this and defense buff then?
Maybe cos I play a lot of games, this is just normal RTA day in Epic Seven
this is off topic but something about your voice reminds me of iwintolose's voice. Theres something there that's similar between your voices lol.
Inb4 we get dodge rate.
5:23 erm actually, Boothill can do that too 🤓☝️
my bad haha forgot that one 😂
erm... Clara?
4:28 suprise suprise turn base is 1 dimensional
7:58 slapping in random unit and pressing auto mode