Took the words right out of my mouth... The Telegraph? or Daily Mail? There's your problem... A skewed version of reality the most of us don't share or care about...
Well, actually... Components suppliers; the companies that supply parts to the EV car manufacturers have had their order books fall off a cliff. The whole car industry is collapsing and the gov needs to step in ASAP. Many many jobs will be lost and people are already starting to hurt. When people who work in the trade are made redundant, they stop buying stuff. Then shops go out of business and the whole thing spirals to a major economic collapse. How do I know this? Locals who work in the trade have already had their work rosters reduced.
You need to examine what you think are subsidies. They are not. What they call subsidies are tax deductions businesses that use fuel then can claim as a cost to their business. That is not a subsidy to a fuel company any more than claiming back toilet paper or biscuits is a subsidy for Andrex or McVities. It is incredible how many climate activists and EVangelists repeat this lie.
I own a Model Y and Rivian R1T, along with solar and Powerwalls. My electricity bill 8 months a year is $17/mo....the grid minimum tie-in. 90% of my charging is done at home. 10 seconds to plug in at night and 10 seconds to unplug in the morning. This is done every 7-10 days. So let's see...no maintenance to speak of and free fuel. Nope, no more ICE for me.
Same here, our home is now fully electric with 1 model 3 and a rivian R1T probably next year, we produce more solar in a year than we use and if we got some battery storage would pull nothing from the grid for 9 months a year.
Saw the headline, didn't read the article. Long since learned not to pay any attention to anything from the Telegraph. Not just this, they're full of crap on everything.
Absolutely. Correlation does not equal causation otherwise we'd ban ice cream as it causes skin cancer (both go up when it's sunny). Oh, and, what was the best selling vehicle on the planet last year? And it's still on track to do the same this year, too.
@@ChristianDee-s9d Interesting. Please show me the numbers for ICE car sales increases versus EV sales increases for the EU. How about China? When you actually look these up you might decide you were mistaken.
I know very well it is you who is mistaken. First of all, to cite China is risible. The CCP has deliberately skewed their market with multi billions thrown at the manufacturing and sales of EV’s. If you seriously don’t know why then start reading credible news sources such as The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg Business and the like. Take China out of global EV sales and see where the truth lives. Secondly, just one example of Europe: Germany. EV sales fell from 17% in September 2023 to 11% in March 2024 and still falling. Reuter’s quite EU EV sales down in the last month of 7%. In 2024, compared to same period on 2023, EV sales are down 10%. Source: European Commission Alternative Fuels. You were saying?
I wasn't going to buy an EV due to cost. Then I saw the price of used EVs. I got a 21 plate Hyundai Ioniq for £11k. Its costs me between 24p-36p to drive to work and back. It cost about £5 in my ice. I no longer need to make a detor to a petral station, just plug it about once a week.
They they are a real bargain! The price of them are collapsing because know one wants them. Too much supply, not enough demand = free fall. Fingers crossed you have no battery issues.
Wow! Used EV’s are worth peanuts ! Exactly what we are telling you all. How many times will the public buy a new EV knowing they will cop a huge loss like that?! I can’t believe how you can celebrate used EV prices crashing and not realise what that is telling you! You won’t be laughing when it comes time to sell your “cheap” EV on.
How about YOU answer your false claim, that all you EVangrlists and activists regurgitate? Why does the fossil fuel industry need or get subsidies? It is inherently one of the most profitable industries in the world. Whole nations are built on massive wealth created by it. The richest companies and individuals are all in fossil fuel. No. The fossil fuel industry is a huge payer of taxes to your government. Directly, and indirectly through fuel excise too. So go on, put up evidence of your bs claim. You can’t, it doesn’t exist.
Blockbuster, Kodak, IBM, Swiss watch makers, every time there is a change in technology in a product it is new comers that make the transition, because they don't need to make any transition, whilst incumbent manufacturers struggle and often fail to make the transition! All we are seeing is the old companies failing to make the transition because they have left it too late and they are too invested in the old technology.
To be fair to Kodak, they invented the first digital camera. But they panicked that it'd kill their film business so didn't develop it. And then their fears came true 😮
That's the problem why legacy companies are rarely able to transition to a major new product. They will lose their legacy base of buyers. So they start living a world of denial until one day another company has taken away all the legacy customers.
The fatal flaw in your logic is that all the companies you mention lost out to tech that was cheaper, more convenient and practical m. EV’s are none of those things. They are the opposite. Cost more, less practical and less amenity, shorter economic lifespan, far worse depreciation, slow fill time, half the range, more costly to repair and insure, etc. As EV’s currently exist, they are a step backwards.
We bought our first EV for our family last month, and we bought our 2nd EV last weekend. We're never going back as we're saving a fortune and the tech is brilliant. We have a BYD Dolphin and a Tesla M3 arriving next week. There is so much ignorance from the people who don't like change.
Can you please stop reading the Torygraph, Will? It’s starting to affect *my* blood pressure…… 😂 Remember, these are the people whose “journalist” told a podcaster friend of mine that they only write things that “their readers want to read about” (i.e. they don’t do “journalism”)….said oik walked off rather than continue a discussion about what “journalism” actually meant…….and that was at a well-known EV show. PS - I may have to seriously think my EV ownership. In the first 27,000 miles and one year I have just had a whopping bill for maintenance: £22.50 for repairing a tyre after a slow puncture. At least in an ICE car I would only have had to have three, or so, oil changes……😳
In a 2007 Bloomberg article the author of the Telegraph piece, Matt Lynn, predicted that Apple Inc. "…will sell a few to its fans, but the iPhone won't make a long-term mark on the industry". Hmm
The problem with all the "just let the market work" is that there is no cost for polluting the environment. If there was a pollution and CO2 tax, and fossil fuel subsidies / tax breaks were eliminated, then the market would swing to EV's and renewables without help.
Totally agree. The ICE manufacturers and petrochemical industry have been allowed to externalize the cost of environmental destruction to the public and discount the future life on the planet. Worse still we’ve subsidized oil exploration with 10s billions for years. As soon as someone gives grants to a new disruptive technology the luddites start to scream at the impending disruption.
My Bolt is the best car I’ve ever owned and I’m old. 250 miles for four dollars with no maintenance It’s a no brainer unless you believe the Big Oil propaganda
e-208 2020 owner here. Just back from a 540 mile trip. Now the e-208 is terrible at 70mph for a long period of time, so I had to stop twice on the way up and twice on the way home. But it was only 20 min each time while I either pottied or got a coffee so it was hardly arduous. And when I was there, there were zero issues with range. Total cost was around 12p a mile. And when at home, I charge once a week for pennies in comparison to before. I'm not changing my EV. I'm already starting to think about my next one along for long distance driving.
Just wait a couple of years before you decide. Battery tech changes every day. New models come every day, Prices fall and will fall even lower than ICE cars in the next 2-3 years.
Obviously don’t follow Tesla depreciation. In the last year alone resale values have crashed. No surprise when Electric Jesus cut prices 4 times by a total 20%...because sales were so, um. Not good.
Ridiculous comparison. The ice car revolutionised mobility and transport around the world. The EV is just another version of car that costs far more only to offer less amenity and practicality.
@@ChristianDee-s9d EV cost a lot less than ICE. Only American EVs are effing expensive for less amenity and practicality. Explain how EVs are less practical? You talking about charging? True there are less charging stations than gas stations. I plug and charge my EV at night when I go home. THUS I always have FULL RANGE by morning. You definitely dont fill up every day; therefore you are driving with less and less range capability.
Show me 1 EV model any car maker sells that is cheaper than its ice powered version. Nobody ever has made such a ludicrous comment. EV’s are inherently more expensive to make because of the huge cost of the battery.
I cannot believe the fantasy land you talk of. EV’s have half the range of ice, fact. To say ice has less because if you don’t fill it every day the range reduces is hilarious. What?!
As for all the amenity and practicality, well let’s see. Hours to charge v minutes. Half the range v ice. Thousands more to buy v ice. Cliff drop depreciation v ice. Higher insurance v ice. Higher crash repair cost v ice. Half the economic life of an ice. When the battery dies throw the EV away. EV’s can’t tow much or for very far before charging. Heat and cold affect EV range but not ice. EV’s cost more to repair and have far higher repair incidents as revealed by consumer surveys of hundreds of thousands of owners by JD Power and Consumer Reports. You can’t repair an EV DIY. I could go on but that will do
Agreed they are incredibly reliable and safer to drive as well and dont pollute the environ😢ment either ice vehicals have had their day and good ridance to them
@jamespaul2587 Chinese EV manufacturers are reducing in number massively. The home Chinese market has now reached the early adopter ceiling and EV's are piling up, this is the main reason that China is now trying to dump their EV's abroad ? Unfair Chinese state subsidies are replacing domestic manufacturers on price and therefore have an unfair advantage chasing the small EV market that is left.
Finally! Somebody commenting on here who has actually researched the facts that the likes of Bloomberg Business, Reuters and The Wall Street Journal regularly report on! The CCP deliberately put billions into EV’s in a direct attempt to undermine the one remaining western industrial powerhouse: the car industry. And yes, from an initial 500 EV makers in China, under 90 remain. That is expected to fall eventually to single figures. Those in here are locked in a vacuum that disallows any diversion from their blinkered narrative.
Due to inflation we have to keep our paid off gas cars. We plan to go EV next but despite the savings is gas it’s still cheaper to keep an old gas car that is paid off. Like many families, we have to do what is necessary to keep paying the mortgage and food bills. 🙁
Hello there! That was my reaction too. It surprises me that others don’t at least give an EV a go before deciding they are just a fad! Just a joy to drive (well, most of them)
That article is so obviously sponsored by big oil. As their ship sinks they will get louder and louder until silence. They will die with a whimper. The writing is on the wall. We just need to keep fighting their nonsense just a bit longer. As you are. Great job.
That writing may be on some wall in a urinal but it certainly isn’t in the sales figures. EV’s are going backwards despite a decade of mandates, tax breaks and tax payer funded subsidies. 10% fall in EU 2023 to 2024 as just one example. Tesla slashing prices 4 times in a year by 21% attempting to arrest falling sales and clear a stick backlog of over 50,000 parked up Tesla’s.
Nearly 5 yrs for me. I'm jealous, I wish I could relive my Tesla journey right from the beginning, it's been the best car I've ever owned. Changed my life for the better and those around me. You'll like driving it so much you'll make excuses to drive it. Then find Camp Mode and look up Tesla Camping UK. Love the owners community, it's full of forward thinking, straight talking, super supportive people just like Will. 👍
For me, the main problem is the "pressure" exerted by government technocrats who want to move too quickly. The market and the population are unable to keep up...
when we went from horses to cars, it took a while to get gas stations where needed. But most folks did not travel much because they couldn't and needn't. Today, commuting is the norm, so we can't just pop a couple of charging stations here and there to fulfill demand. Folks have to know they can charge easily on long trips, and have some way to charge at home, which is the real game changer. Also, if you are serious about climate change, you then know we are already behind the eight-ball, and therefore cannot move fast enough!
@@Trashed20659 Agreed, good people (and I believe that is most of us) want the change, for the future of humanity, our children. But cost of living is extra hard for so many right now, most can't keep up with what policies are pushing for (as the original post says). I'm all in on a sustainably-powered EV transition - there's no faulting the logic in my mind, but I myself cannot afford a new or even used EV at the moment. So I see both sides and I can understand the resentment (even demonisation) that many folks feel, who would buy EV's it was a sensible, economically choice for them, but just can't afford to yet. Meanwhile, the more financially fortunate can enjoy the benefits of EV's, and feel good about themselves too. Eight-ball indeed, but hopefully that eight-ball will slowly move out the way.
There is no correlation proven as the climate alarmists would have it, that CO2 causes temperature increase. In fact, it is the other way around. How is it the 3% humans produce of CO2 is a problem yet the 97% caused by nature is not an issue?!
Another vapid and baseless comment about fossil fuel and money. I challenge you to show evidence of the oil industry getting all this money in subsidies you and your delusional mates all claim continually, whilst never providing evidence of it. It is a lie put out by the activists and nothing more.
Oh, but we do need to trade it. So far you have put up zero evidence to support your claim while on here I have repeated discredited this misinformation so many on here repeat. You saying it isn’t so is not a fact, it is an incorrect claim made by the activist lobby around the globe despite it having been clearly shown to be false.
Why are you shouting? 😂 but thanks for your concern. I’ve saved £15,000+ over 5 years of ownership thanks to practically zero maintenance and £2 fill ups on an overnight electricity tariff. It also saved my family from a potentially bad crash and swerved to avoid the collision. The value of which, was priceless to me
We all know the real maths doesn’t add up to your claim. The AA and RAC inform us annually of the real Whole of Ownership cost comparisons. As for avoiding an accident, where were you, the driver, at the time, lol. Plenty of fatal accidents have occurred because of Tesla driver and driving functions, the USA law courts are dealing with them.
@TeslaJigsaw my Model S saved my life too. From a van doing 70+ in the fast lane going the wrong way down the dual carriage way. Would have been a head on 140mph crash. On this point, safety alone, proven many times over, Tesla are super safe and that's priceless.
Hyperbolic nonsense. No European car manufacturer can match the standard of electric vehicles coming from China at any price. Making a competitive vehicle is a pipe dream. European EVs are near dead, sure. That does not mean EVs are dead, quite the opposite.
Chinese companies don't have tens of thousands of workers that design and install alternators, starter motors, gear boxes, clutches, radiators, fuel pumps, exhaust systems, egr valves, combustion technology and engine blocks. If they sell EVs at the real production cost ICE sales will crash. They want are gradual change but I don't think they will have that luxury.
Such sadly flawed assumptions we hear over and again. Plain fact, Chinese or any other car maker: EV’s cost far more to produce because by far the most expensive component is the battery. You fail to note China also can build far cheaper ice too.
Plenty of ev drivers have gone back to ICE cars including my father in-law - who lives in 80% EV ownership Norway! He bought new electric VW SUV and hated it after trying to enjoy it for 18 months. Traded it in for F*ck all just to get rid of it. Now has Audi diesel SuV and will never go back
Are you sure you are not a fossil fuel industry paid disinformant. If not you are exttremely unusual. Your father in law will go back to EVs because diesels will no longer be available.
@@rogerphelps9939 i bet you don’t even know that manufacturing an EV produces 3 tonnes more carbon than making an ICE car- mostly from mining for battery chemicals. An Ev must be used for 6 years to cancel out this extra carbon pollution - they aren’t ‘green’ at all. People have been conned
@@trev1978 Strange then that I have two EVs, a Leaf and a Skoda Enyaq. Thet are brilliant cars and I would never go back to an ICE car. EVs are superior in prety much all ways and they are an essential tool in getting to net zero which must be done if ourStrange then that I have two EVs, a Leaf and a Skoda Enyaq. Thet are brilliant cars and I would never go back to an ICE car. EVs are superior in prety much all ways and they are an essential tool in getting to net zero which is essential if our grandchildren are to have a future.
@@rogerphelps9939 can you carry heavy loads or tow anything far in your ev? Or drive more than 400 miles without charging? Can you ‘fill up’ your tank in 10 minutes like you can an ICE car? ‘Net zero’ will never happen anyway as long as developing countries like India continue to add more coal burning electricity plants
Seems Rachel Reeves can't spare taxpayers money to keep pensioners warm this winter. I wonder if she will be as ruthless with the ridiculous subsidies for Luxury EVs, probably not!
Republic of Ireland Since 1 July 2023, you can get a grant of up to €3,500 for battery-powered electric vehicles (BEV). (Previously, the grant was €5,000). The grant for BEVs only applies to new cars with a full price of between €14,000 and €60,000.10 Apr 2024
You are all living in bs on this forum. For the hundredth time, fossil fuel companies do not get subsidies. That is a blatant lie created by the activist Green lobby. I challenge you to provide evidence they get any.
in 1910 The horse and cab drivers were saying: these automobiles are too expensive, smell bad, make a lot of noise, need a special "chauffeur" (literally a technician warming up the car before it could run), road were not adapted, needed a lot of maintenance, and gas stations were nowhere to find as the oil industry was still in it's infancy. In 1920 most of road transport in large cities was done by car (with the exception of public transportation), prices of car went down by 80% (Ford T), oil stations everywhere, new roads allowed suburbs to develop away from the center of the cities transforming the whole landscape and economy. a typical car in 1900 could cost between $1,000 and $2,000 (equivalent to around $30,000 to $60,000 today when adjusted for inflation). The price of the Model T dropped significantly. In 1908, the first Model T cost about $850 (equivalent to around $25,000 today). By 1920, the price had dropped to about $300 (equivalent to around $4,000 today). Tesla ... the next Model T ?
@@TeslaJigsaw absolutely! Why own a car ? The TaaS business model is worth trillions. It disrupts the oil industry, the insurance industry, the classical taxi industry, the truck industry. 90% of the cars are useless, parked, using garage space. Real estate willl be impacted. Full autonomy means 95% less accidents. that will also impact social security, less people in hospital but at work. Less police forces needed to check traffic. The averag american family will save $5600 per year in transportation alone: That's equivalent to a 10% salary increase!
What an oft relied upon trope. Ice revolutionised human transport and endeavour and did so rapidly and without laws or subsidies to do so. An EV dies no such thing, in fact, it is a backwards step by many metrics. I An EV is just another version of car that costs more and does less.
@@ChristianDee-s9d EV prices are going down, TCO of an EV is already lower than ICE. The trend is to have prices going down and range increase. The real step forward and global adoptiion of EV's is full autonomy.
My EV is unequivocally outdated, 30kwh leaf with Chademo , having said that done 95 miles today on one charge with 20% left ( gom says 26 miles left) so for an 8 year old EV it doesn't do bad , definitely won't be going back to Ice but will definitely be buying a used EV with bigger battery and active cooling and CCS ! 😁
Get an MG4. Great to drive, good range and cheap insurance. Test drove a model 3, but the best insurance I could find was £1300 at 63 years old with full ncd and clean licence. MG4 LR was £320 by comparison.
@@kevinison5539 MG is an option but tempted by a used Kia eNiro or even a Hyundai Ioniq 38kwh ( small battery but by far one of the most efficient EVs) another possibility is a Ioniq 5 , the used car market is maturing now so there's more choice 👍
Eniro is a great car, but they have their issues. We bought a kona that had the early signs of the failing primary reduction gears and had to return it. A friend of ours also sold their eniro with the same problem too. We also test drove a Kia Soul that again had the early signs. Kia is aware of the issue and generally play the delaying game by changing the gearbox oil and then the motor mounts etc when the only real cure is to replace the motor and gearbox assembly. It's a subtle noise at first that gradually gets worse over time until you can't ignore it. Trouble is it's likely to be out of warranty by then. The noise is similar to CV joints if you know what they sound like, but the clicking is roughly four times the rotation speed of the wheels. Be sure to do the following test on a test drive: 1. Find a quiet road with a decent hill. 2. Stop the car on the hill and drop the windows if it's quiet outside. 3. Gently pull away at walking pace and you'll hear a very obvious click click click if it has the issue. Some cars seem to be fine even with 100k miles, while others show the early signs at under 20k. The sound is often confused with the pedestrian warning sounder which can drown it out as that click click turns into a higher frequency hum at higher speed. You tube or google "Wheel of fortune noise" as it is similar to the flapper on the wheel of fortune. I read somewhere that the problem is due to machining tolerances putting the gears into excessive mesh, which in turn breaks through the case hardening on the teath. It's a shame, because both the eniro and kona are great cars otherwise and soooo efficient! Real mile eaters. The MG4 is more of a drivers car tbh, even if not as efficient and practical as the eniro. For reference, the wife and I have had between us: Nissan leaf, BMW i3 Rex, kona 64kwh, the newer MGZS ev, and my MG4 Trophy. So well into our EVs and never going back.
To be onest , a rwd model 3 has low range , people hate having to charge so often , i own one and my passagers always complain about us stopping to charge . The range needs to duble for my car and the winter range triple . This is neded for mass ev adoption ! Nobody want to charge every 200 -300 km .
OECD numbers $1 Trillion / year is used to subsidised the oil industry in the USA alone. $6 Trillion / year internationally is subsidised to the oil industry, 5% of GDP of the world. £10 billion/year in UK used to subsidise the oil industry. Don't tell me that we waste "lots" of money on the green industry.
Totally false. The oil industry is NOT subsidised. The deliberate distortion of what are tax deductions for businesses that use fuel and so, can get a tax claim as a legitimate cost. It is a lie to call that subsidies to the oil industry because they are not the ones getting the rebate. That is like saying Andrex gets subsidies because companies can claim the cost of toilet paper. I read this falsehood spread globally and wonder at how it is people just accept such a thing without examination.
Try as much as you want in offering nothing better than personal insults, that doesn’t change the facts. I am the one who bothers to study those claims and reports, clearly something you do not do. If you did, you would know and agree with what I said. The deliberately misrepresent the normal tax deductions any business can make for costs incurred in operating that business. That is not a subsidy. That is the fact of the matter and you in dumbly denial doesn’t change the facts. To a sensible person, the notion a hugely inherently profitable business like oil getting subsidies doesn’t ring plausible in the first instance, especially when in the case of the USA there is the Democratic Party in power and they have a radical Green agenda. But then, you are not a sensible person.
Your bs lie you wish to cling to was exposed in Australia during the last election. Usual shit, fossil fuel getting $11.3 billion supposedly in subsidies. That claim was investigated and, surprise, it was the usual lie of calling tax deductions as being subsidies. Not for the oil industry, even worse it was based on any business that claimed fuel as a legitimate business expense as being an oil industry directed subsidy! My Lord, the desperation of Green activists to lie so blatantly. In this case, they got called out for it in public.
I became a convert from petrol head to EV in 2014 (10 years now). One thing I have come to realise... while established media and large car companies keep pushing their negative propaganda - they continue to give room to the growth of a new mega car manufacturer - Tesla.
Firstly, 🫡. And yes, whilst Legacy Auto dilly dallied for years, Tesla accelerated beyond any reach of others catching up. Tragic really, could have been far different
I spent thousands and thousands in my life, since 1980s to have a nippy small hatchback. It wasn't easy to catch 150-200 HP with a 1-1.5 liter engine. Broken turbos, failed transmisions, broken pistons, so many evenings spent at the back yard fixing thast, changing the other, wait for weeks without a car for a part. I saved my life when I bought the BMW i3. I open the hood just to add windscreen fluid. And I have more power and torque than any Peugeut Rally, FIAT Uno-Punto turbo, Polo Gti, Starlet, Yaris etc. Now my problem is to not forget to push the brake at least once every day, to avoid get any rust on the discs.
Battery recycling plant postponed? The basic requirement for a recycling plant is something to recycle, and pretty much the only EV battery packs available for recycling are those from cars that have been put through mandatory safety crash testing, faulty packs end up getting repaired and reused. It'll be another 20+ years before the EV battery materials "circle" gets closed because these things have a much longer useful life than anticipated.
Here in the real world, the facts are very different to your invented opinions. EV battery arrays are very complex, difficult and hazardous to break down. The hard fact is the cost of recycling exceeds the cost of a new array. Despite your fantasy there are plenty of dead EV batteries already.
I haven’t bought a newspaper in years, I’ve got an ev, I really like it and won’t be going going back to ice any time soon. Don’t watch the news a lot, there’s nothing I can change! I live my life and do my best not to worry about the main stream bs.
When I can go on my camping trips fully loaded with family, trailer and roof box, and can do a minimum of 300miles between charges, and that charge takes around 2-3 minutes to complete in full I’ll get an EV. Until then, no thanks…. A long trip would be a nightmare. My brothers about to get an EV through work. The only reason is for the tax incentives, that’s the only reason! Even then he’s keeping his Audi diesel for the longer trips cuz he doesn’t want the hassle…. The technology has its merits but it also has very significant deficiencies which is stopping mass adoption. Don’t be a fanboy and accept that fact.
False claim. Been corrected a million times and still some people want to repeat it. Fossil fuel is about the biggest tax payer both directly to government and indirectly through fuel excise. They get NO different tax allowances than any other business. Going by the lie claim, we must be subsiding Andrex for toilet paper too, ffs. Fossil fuel is hugely profitable and needs no subsidies. It has made whole nations, companies and individuals wealthy. Stop denying reality.
Unreal. You all sing the same proven activist lie. The oil industry does not get, or require, any subsidies. That is a confected distortion related to regular business tax deductions and has been exposed as such countless times. If you don’t believe me, put up actual proof they do. Think logically, a hugely profitable industry that created the world’s wealthiest nations, corporates and individuals. The USA has the Democratic Party in power with their radical Green New Deal that is all about EV’s and renewables. Yet supposedly they paradoxically give big oil subsidies?! No.
Oh, dear. That ignorant claim that always gets trotted out by the EVangelists! “EV’s are simpler, they have less parts”. Sorry, no. EV’s are highly complex cars with very expensive tech that can and does fail. When it does, the cost to repair is far higher. Then, there is the battery elephant in the room. In 8-12 years when that dies, your EV is scrap value due to the huge replacement cost. Meanwhile, an ice car can regularly live on for double that time, with normal and economically viable services and repairs.
Am I really? I have the biggest consumer surveys on the subject to prove my claim: Consumer Reports and JD Power. I have motoring organisations worldwide, such as The AA and The RAC who release annual reports and I can point plenty more. EV’s are shown in those surveys to require 49%+ MORE repairs than ice and at a far higher repair cost. Why are insurance costs higher for EV’s? Because the repair costs are so much higher they get written off for far less impact damage. As usual, I can point to factual reporting and research data as evidence of my claims whilst EVangelists can only make baseless denials. Like you did. I find consistently that EVangelists are very much non car enthusiasts and have even less actual technical understanding of either ice or EV. That is clear in all of their overtly incorrect assertions they make. Like because an EV has no transmission or less parts in the motor itself, that must make them simpler and more reliable . Like I said, no actual tech knowledge.
" Everybody hates electric vehicles until they drive one". I have owned an EV for just over 8 years and at first it was a novelty. Now after only 40k miles covered ( I am a keen cyclist, motorcyclist, campervanner and have another two ice cars ) if you are wondering, why the low mileage. The battery has degraded by 42% now, after the battery was cared for well and hardly rapid charged at all and never left on charge or at 100% for long periods. I have suffered all the well doccumented logistics and changing problems as well and many other well known maladies associated with owning an EV. Most of the other EV's on the road have hardly any age on them in comparrison to my older EV and I am just waiting for the avalanche of degradation to come from EV's in time that are quite new now. The fact is ALL batteries degrade with time and use cycles and hence nobody really wants to take a chance on a second hand EV, with dubious battery health and range going forward, hence dealers won't touch them and neither will consumers on the whole, meaning the used EV price has crashed. I have learned my lesson and will never buy another EV, ever again. My other two ice cars are 16 years old and 20 years old, a Mercedes E Class diesel and a Mazda MX5, both cars work perfectly still and both have the ranges I bought them with new, The Mercedes being 650 miles brimmed and can tow a 7.5 metre caravan 350 miles. Something that no EV can do. As time goes by, more people will come to the realisation that EV's are not progress or better than what we had before, by a large margin. In fact just not fit for purpose, apart from an expensive local runabout, exactly the use case that milk floats were used for !
@mikeforwarduk My warranty on my EV was 8 years or 100'000 miles, the guarantee was for 75% at 8 years old and if it fell to less than that, faulty cells would be repaired to bring the EV back up to 75%. Only done if battery checked every year and only at the manufacturer's 'discretion'. You don't get a new battery. So all they have to do is say no.
Thanks for confirming efficiency when towing with an ICE, it's around 50% with a Tesla, pretty similar and you've all the data at your fingertips. Range is growing, give it time. Having just completed a 3k, 10 country over 9 day tour of Europe where pee breaks were charging pitstops, I can confirm that was all that was needed to keep on going and going. In fact peeing cost more than my charging which was free! Point being no equivalent petrol pump time, which would have been wasted time. I also didn't need to waste time checking the oil or radiator level, or endure the pain of slow trip planning with ancient tech, laggy infotainment system and we could go everywhere, no city center restrictions. Degradation is real, nearly 5 yrs on, it's minimal. When it comes, the savings to date will be used to cover it.
Who tf checks fluids in a new ice car?! When people start talking such overt crap, they lose any reasonable person and show themselves up to be irrational and fanatical. Just like the crap about time lost in comparison to ice. We all know your take is utter bollocks. An EV towing has abysmal range, another well documented fact. When you talk such crap (apparently you have an enlarged prostate judging by endless piss stops) you just put sensible people off. You love EV’s? Fine. Just don’t try to justify it with bs.
On one side are the people telling others to dive into a technology before it is developed sufficiently. On the other side are people unable to understand the technological change over time.
I'm fine with technological change , so I'll just wait until EV tech catches up: When the batteries can be charged for 400 miles, in a decent sized SUV, in 3 minutes, in any weather, without degradation, and all at a competitive price.
I completely agree with your sentiments. Sales of EV's in China are steadily rising. BYD is also profitable, with at least one other manufacturer about to be. It is the lumbering dinosaurs of the West who are going extinct.
Not only are batteries one of the worse energy storage mediums you could choose for cars, cars are also one of the worse applications you could find for batteries. Here’s why: Batteries have less than 2% of the energy density of petrol at 204Wh/kg vs 12,000 for petrol. This means EVs must a have shorter range and/or be heavier than ICEVs. A battery capable of storing 100kWh is up to 100x the cost of s petrol tank capable of storing the same amount of energy which means EVs will always be more expensive. Batteries are struggling to achieve a 4C charge rate (15 minutes charge time) whilst a petrol car can easily achieve the equivalent of 12C (5 minutes refuelling time). A petrol station can be set up anywhere without the need for additional cabling or demand on the grid. Batteries are easily damaged in accidents increasing insurance premiums for EV drivers as well as ICEV drivers since if you run into an EV and it if your fault it is your insurance which has to pay. EV fires may be rare but when they occur they cannot be put out by depriving them of oxygen which is not the case with ICEVs. If EVs are cheaper to run than ICEVs this is only because there is less tax on electricity than on petrol. As soon as the government put a tax on driving EVs to make up for what they lose in fuel duty this will no longer be the case. Subsidies on EVs are unfair on people who don’t drive cars and mandates are a threat to democracy. EVs may be the future when we run out of oil but even this is questionable as by then scientists may have figured out a way of making synthetic fuel which works out cheaper or more convenient than driving EVs. Finally batteries would be better put to use in flattening the duck curve which would give us cheaper and more reliable electricity, not less. This phrase brings me on to lockdown, the purpose of which had nothing to do which keeping hospitals from being overloaded and everything to do which closing small businesses and transferring the trade to large supermarket chains and Amazon, as well as increasing vaccine sales. This was the second biggest scam in human history. The one we are facing now has got nothing to do with saving the planet. Man-made CO2 makes almost no difference to global warming, but an increase in it would be beneficial to food production. This is the last thing the global elite want since a food shortage would be a great way to control the public in order to introduce a Chinese style social credit system.
So new EV’s don’t cost more? Don’t deprecate far worse? Don’t take ages to fill? Don’t have half the range? Don’t cost more to insure because they cost more to repair. Etc. etc.
@@ChristianDee-s9d Yes they do cost more, but prices are coming down. I don't need to wait for it to charge, it takes 10 seconds once a week to plug in. Insurance was £50 more, but I did add my wife. I do about one journey a year where I will have to charge at a motorway service station, I normally stop for more than the half hour it'll take to top up. The hardest thing about going to an EV has been going to grab the gear stick that isn't there. The best bit isn't even that it only costing a few pounds to top up. It's knowing my personal choice has hurt your feelings.
Battery EVs are growing globally each year including first half of 2024. The Chinese are coming in numbers for world markets. With good quality well priced and high safety rating vehicles. If tarrifs get applied the Chinese will just make their cars in the market with Chinese labour. Not stoppable . It’s just a matter of time .
You are not reading fact based reporting. EV sales are not meeting projections. Why do you think there is massive discounting going on? Tesla 4 price cuts totalling 21% in the last year is just one example. Nobody slashed prices when sales are high.
I have a BEV and a backup diesel car for emergency. The only outdated technology is my crap manual diesel. I admit my diesel is reliable and goes from A to B , but future tech it isn't.
@@ChristianDee-s9d It's needed for the occasion that I have to drive 300+ miles to other cities for work. The wife uses the BEV, for work. 90% of the time I commute into London on a motorbike. So yes it's needed and old school diesel is actually the best for occasional long journeys. As I write, I'm now covering 2 weeks holiday cover in a project in Manchester. Which of course isn't practical on a commuter bike designed for smaller journeys.
Can I ask do you have a home charger and how long to you have to wait around to charge on the road. That is the real problem. You might be sitting in the best car ever produced, until the power runs out and there's no where to go.
Electric cars are way too expensive, they should be much cheaper since they are MUCH simpler to make, I don't believe the whole, "batteries are expensive" mantra. Battery prices have plummeted so new car prices should have plummeted. Legacy car companies make huge amounts on maintenance and parts which has vanished under their electric brands, seriously cutting their profits, more will go bust. Garages hate electric cars too, since they need MUCH less maintenance. Government forced electricity prices up to match petrol, reducing one of the nicest benefits of owning an electric car, cheap prices per mile. Charging networks rip their customers off to use fast chargers (if you can find a working one). It's no surprise that consumers don't see the reason to get one. It is way cheaper to get a petrol car and that, has virtually infinite range. I have a Nissan Leaf 40kw, it used to be cheap to run, now electricity prices make it the same as petrol, tax changes will soon make it even more expensive and lifespan of the battery is unknown. I like the way electric cars drive but they need a 400 mile range (100kw battery) and be the same price as petrol cars new to buy, for people to want them AND the charging network needs major work, with price caps to stop rip off (Instavolt) prices. I don't want to go back to a petrol car but i may be forced to over the next couple of years, its just economics.
I've owned 2 EVs (2012 Leaf & 2021 Bolt) but have reluctantly gone back to driving an ICE car. In Michigan, we're charged an extra $140/yr for EV plates/registration. And my insurance dropped almost $50/mth when I went back to ICE. But the deciding factors were really 1) In the USA we have areas with few DC chargers (Virginias, etc) making it harder to travel long-distance and 2) GM screwed me over with the recent Bolt battery recall forcing an "update" that limited charging to 80% for what would be 2 years with what I drive. So here in the US, there are still hurdles & costs to overcome. Guessing I'll go back to an EV in a couple years. But they've still got some issues to resolve.
I'm sorry for having to deal with that, it's a total injustice. I believe the government is useless in creating more chances for the people trying to drive EVs here in North America. Now, I suppose you had your reasons for not buying a Tesla, I don't want to get into the details, but living with a superior product, granted, a little more expensive, has its perks. In the same manner you could say an Apple laptop is more expensive than a Windows one, to make an analogy. But Tesla, besides being more expensive, has the chops to make it simple to drive EVs, and even if you don't agree with the company policies, or its leaders for whatever reason, you have to see that the majority of people choose Tesla for the full experience, and choose to ignore all the other issues. LOL, that depends on your level of BS tolerance. But my thinking was that if I refrain from buying the best EV around, I'm actually punishing myself more than the intended party. Because they sell enough of them to not care about my feelings whatsoever. After all, this is a product made in USA by USA workers, at least I'm helping my people keeping a job, since most of the money goes to them. Anyway, maybe when all EVs have access to the Tesla superchaging network things will change for the better for all the EV manufacturers. As for me, I own a 2018 Nissan Leaf (for around town mostly) and a Model Y (for longer trips). Seeing the difference of those costs I understand your choice of going back to ICE. I might have done the same myself, but luckily my costs are the same regardless of the type of car. I tried all the insurance dealers around, I am changing mine every year (pit one against the other for a better price), but essentially one guy told me literally that it's more expensive for EVs than for ICE. When I asked why, he said "risks of fire are higher". what??? I asked for the report proving that, he said it was an internal report (not public). Meaning, that company has an agenda against EVs. I hung up and tried another one. You just can't win like that. But anyway, good luck
The US needs to catch up but seems determined to remain irrelevant. The rest of the world doesn't need the US to be relevant, so if it wants to kill its own Auto Industry it can do it all on its little lonesome. If it wants to play with the rest of us it needs to adopt EVs.
I do wish I'd been able to afford a Tesla, but it was out of my budget. Hopefully it won't be when I shop my next EV. Politics-wise I'm an independant & don't care if Musk wants to go one way or the other. He has valid points for what he does, agree or disagree. But I'm very much looking forward to a better charging infrastructure in the US and making chargers more universal! :)
I drive a Tesla Model S Plaid 😁 (0-60mph ~2 sec... and F-ing LOVE it!), wife has a Tesla long-range Y (NOT a car girl and LOVES her Tesla), daughter has a Tesla Model 3 Performance (loves fast cars and HER Tesla... which was just a few years ago was in supercar performance numbers... 0-60mph, 3.1 sec!) We have solar, Powerwall, ZERO electricity bill other than a small mandatory connection charge, zero auto maintenance, no wasted $ to Saudi Arabia and stupid Middle East War concerns. MOST people should really consider EV, Tesla or otherwise, especially if they want lowest cost of ownership, GREAT performance, near-zero maintenance, are sick of auto dealerships and ripoff maintenance expenses, awesome software/navigation display, Tesla Supercharger network (AWESOME!), and yes, I could go on and on!
Agree Will Just about to buy my third EV Who and where does all this bad press come from. Do you think it could be accelerated by interested parties, let’s say the oil industry. Nobody mentioned the fact that billions are put in to support the nuclear industry. The doubters have to understand that growing a relatively new industry is going to cost money initially but in time when EV’s are the norm costs will come down
The big oil companies already started to invest at renewables power sources, grid and EV charging stations. They know what it will come. Only those who read these nwespapers can't see what is going on!!!!
My M3 LR insurance was about £100 a year less than a similar priced (but inferior and slower) BMW ICE in the same comparison on the same comparison site. No maintenance required, even brakes last forever (well almost) as you hardly ever use them.
They compare the top notch Tesla with the base model Corolla. One has 400 HP, with autonomous driving and everything that you can ask from a car and the other has 120 HP, electric windows and mirrors without auto A/C.
@@chrishar110 Yep, typical legacy energy / auto funded propaganda, can't wait for these greedy bar stewards to get what they deserve when the population wise up to a green energy future.
In US: A recent study by US insurer, AutoinsuranceEZ found that hybrid cars had the worst fire record, while EVs were the least likely type of car to catch fire. Hybrid cars had 3474.5 fires per 100,000 sale; petrol cars had 1,529.9 fires per 100,000 sales and EVs had just 25.1 fires per 100,000 sales.Oct 25, 2023 In addition there's 5,000 petrol station fires, 5,400 home natural gas fires. Dozens of pipeline leaks and fires. Many fuel truck fires. All this plus climate catastrophes growing every day due to spewing 51 billion tons of greenhouse gases pollution.
Oh dear! Doesn’t anybody on this EVangelists forum do any critical thinking or data examination?! By far the biggest cause of fires of petrol cars in that report is from cars stolen and set on fire after a crime or for insurance fraud. The next main cause is age and inappropriate maintenance. Not due to inherent issues of fire proclivity. Regards EV’s, well we all know they are new or under 10 years and their high cost means they will be serviced by the book. Yet, still, they suffer from an inherent problem in battery design: thermal runaway.
There is no increase at all of so called climate catastrophes. Even the latest IPCC report categorically states that very specifically regarding all forms of extreme weather events. To say otherwise is simply a lie and fear monger img by activists.
I wouldn't buy a citroën car it drinks range like water until you see the dealer and they fix the problem and then they say they did nothing now my vehicle does mile for mile
Cracking presentation, Will. The Daily Telegraph, whose ownership variously by the Barclay brothers, contested by various other dubious financial interests … such a reliable high integrity news platform, read by the hardcore blue rinse stalwarts. Excuse my cynicism
I find this whole black and white mentality with EV, ICE and hydrogen really pathetic. There was a time when we would have found interest and excitement in any new tech. Why do they have turn everything into a culture war.
My biggest surprise is the lack of excitement/Interest in this clearly better technology. Stubbornness is strong, as are culture wars about anything it seems
Only EVangelists like you think a car that costs more and depreciates far worse, has half the lifespan, half the range, less proven reliability, costlier repairs, costlier accident repairs hence higher insurance, crap towing ability, affected by heat and cold and takes an age to charge, is in any way an advancement. That’s why everyone still avoids EV’s. Not hard to figure.
I have given up. Cannot afford anyway . Biggest mistake mankind has made. A neighbour cancelled their order when the insurance was found to be well over £1000. So he stayed with his deisel as i have. Love to drive an EV , must be a wonderful experience. But it's the cost involved. Sure the right technology will change the situation eventually. Battery tech has already improved. Hey there costs down to £20k , it will be a winner. One major mistake by Tesla is the integrated structural battery's. Need say no more.
I always thought that though the driving experience would be great, I couldn't live with the limitations. But I realized I was wrong when I drove one for the first time recently. The driving experience sucked. 'Instant torque' is the last thing you want negotiating a tight parking space, or pulling out quickly on a wet surface. The 'regen braking' feels exactly like the emergency brake is always stuck on, so you even need to 'push' the car downhill rather than enjoy freewheeling. The road noise was worse than my own gas car- maybe the extra weight on the tires, I don't know.
Car insurance, deprecation dropping are affecting all cars. Maintenance is minimal on EV's but massive on ICE cars, as are fuel costs. Tesla only make EV's and are profitable. BYD are profitable and sell many EV's, MG are selling many EV's and make a profit. These are companies that saw EV's as the future and made a change. Many small companies popped up as they always do, Some will survive but many not. The legacy car makers seem to think they can slot an EV motor and some batteries in the car and people will want them. They will only be profitable once they embrace and cut costs in their production. Battery prices have halved since last year, so as you say storage costs , large scale, home or EV. This is making renewables more and more relevant as well as EV's. Once we see more smaller cheaper typical family cars at a great price, they will be snapped up. Always love the way you do these stories!
Thanks for that 👍 I can’t wait for the day we see EVs for £10,000 with 250+ mile range. It’s already the case in China, and only a matter of time for those Companies that are driving down costs relentlessly
What sort of self absorbed idiot would cheer on the deliberate CCP subsidised strategy to undermine the last great western industry, with all of the issues to western prosperity, tech capacity and yes, defence capacity? Oh, of course! An EVangelist! Despicable.
No, sorry. EV’s have well documented huge depreciation far worse than ice because there is no demand for them in the used market unless they are crazy cheap. Regarding insurance, EV’s cost far more to repair so logically insurance risk and loss adjustments dictate that higher cost carries with it a higher premium.
They are right about subsidies. Lets bring an immediate end to subsidising the oil industry, then listen to cry about the lack of help to transition to EV. Meanwhile, in the UK, fuel duty is rumoured to be going up 10p and everyone is crying over it. Wait until ETS charges get passed down. They'll all have a nervous breakdown.
Still perpetuating the lie about oil industry subsidies, regardless of being given ample explanation of that being untrue. Once again, if you want to claim they do, put up evidence to it. I won’t hold my breath.
Hey smug guy, if in your fantasy world everyone must buy an EV, what do you think is going to happen to replace the biggest tax producer for your government: fuel excise and tax on the oil industry. Your sucking off the system with your EV’s is coming to a close.
Feel free to provide evidence of those oil industry subsidies all of you parrot about. I say to you the same thing I said to everyone else on here, there are no subsidies. That is a lie put about by activists that misconstrues refusal tax deductions all business have under tax law. Nothing special, nothing unique and not a subsidy. A blatant misrepresentation and every renewables or EV activist believes it. The truth is the fossil fuel industry is the biggest tax payer to government, both directly and indirectly through fuel excise tax as well.
All of you on here blindly sing the same lie. The oil industry doesn’t get subsidies, the Green activist lie of turning normal tax deductions every business may claim for costs, into calling them subsidies. It seems no matter how many times that claim is proven as nothing more than a lie, because it suits renewables and EV fanatics, you keep on repeating it, in the belief if it is repeated often enough it will magically be seen as true. The method employed by a famous minister for propaganda in the 30’s and 40’s.
I just had an interesting thought. I know Elon Musk says he wants to save humanity but I don't believe him in the least. I think he and his huge ego just want to put it to other car companies and we benefit from this because he has to use better and more efficient technology to do this, so we get better cars out of the deal.
@@ChristianDee-s9d well tesla and byd are doing pretty well. BMW just announced profits were well down. There time is limited,they did not plan ahead to change EV manufacturing. They will eventually have to close down all ice manufacturing. Then what? No business left.
Tesla going well?! Share price dropped from $4 3 years ago down under $2 today. Corporate profit fall of 45% due to 4 price cuts this last year due to falling sales. Total 20% price slashed. Over 59,000 unsold Tesla’s parked all over holding yards in the USA. Even in Australia there are 6,000 sitting unsold. Tesla make money selling Carbon Credits and not from their cars. Start reading proper business news sources such as The Wall Street Journal.
For as far as can be foreseen, ice cars will continue to exist and sell in greater numbers than EV’s. If anything, Hybrids are seeing the big rise in sales while EV’s fall or stall.
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First mistake is buying The Telegraph. Second is thinking it's true.
Took the words right out of my mouth... The Telegraph? or Daily Mail? There's your problem... A skewed version of reality the most of us don't share or care about...
But it is true! For all being paid by fossil industry and Papa Vladimir.
If only there was a media regulator to prevent this misinformation/ false narrative being produced 😮
Well, actually...
Components suppliers; the companies that supply parts to the EV car manufacturers have had their order books fall off a cliff. The whole car industry is collapsing and the gov needs to step in ASAP.
Many many jobs will be lost and people are already starting to hurt.
When people who work in the trade are made redundant, they stop buying stuff. Then shops go out of business and the whole thing spirals to a major economic collapse.
How do I know this? Locals who work in the trade have already had their work rosters reduced.
LOL. Perhaps using telegraph for communication is a tad obsolete. Perhaps they should also stop using pigeons as well.
When is anyone going to be held ACCOUNTABLE for the vaster quantities of tax payer's cash that has been given to various oil companies?
Wouldn’t that be nice
According to the IMF in their 2023 paper, $7 trillion in subsidies for oil gas and coal in 2022 alone.
@@wotireckon Whilst they were making great profits....
It is not as if they are down to No Pot to Piss In...
Conveniently NEVER mentioned.
You need to examine what you think are subsidies.
They are not.
What they call subsidies are tax deductions businesses that use fuel then can claim as a cost to their business.
That is not a subsidy to a fuel company any more than claiming back toilet paper or biscuits is a subsidy for Andrex or McVities.
It is incredible how many climate activists and EVangelists repeat this lie.
I own a Model Y and Rivian R1T, along with solar and Powerwalls. My electricity bill 8 months a year is $17/mo....the grid minimum tie-in. 90% of my charging is done at home. 10 seconds to plug in at night and 10 seconds to unplug in the morning. This is done every 7-10 days. So let's see...no maintenance to speak of and free fuel. Nope, no more ICE for me.
I can’t wait for myself and others to benefit from the same. It’s going to be a wonderful future if we build it right!
Same here, our home is now fully electric with 1 model 3 and a rivian R1T probably next year, we produce more solar in a year than we use and if we got some battery storage would pull nothing from the grid for 9 months a year.
Me too. One EV, PV, battery, no energy bills at all for the last 4 months.
You live in a country which gets sun. England has only rain.
Yes, solar & battery installed in April....Other than standing charges I haven't paid a single penny on electricity so far.
Saw the headline, didn't read the article. Long since learned not to pay any attention to anything from the Telegraph. Not just this, they're full of crap on everything.
Amazing how they are ignoring the automakers that don't make EVs having the same horrible qtr?????
Correlation ≠ Causation
Absolutely. Correlation does not equal causation otherwise we'd ban ice cream as it causes skin cancer (both go up when it's sunny). Oh, and, what was the best selling vehicle on the planet last year? And it's still on track to do the same this year, too.
Yes you just keep giving us your cash to save the planet, theres a good peasant ;D
The fact is that the sale of ice cars has continued to increase at a higher rate than EV’s in most major markets.
You are wrong.
@@ChristianDee-s9d Interesting. Please show me the numbers for ICE car sales increases versus EV sales increases for the EU. How about China?
When you actually look these up you might decide you were mistaken.
I know very well it is you who is mistaken.
First of all, to cite China is risible.
The CCP has deliberately skewed their market with multi billions thrown at the manufacturing and sales of EV’s.
If you seriously don’t know why then start reading credible news sources such as The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg Business and the like.
Take China out of global EV sales and see where the truth lives.
Secondly, just one example of Europe: Germany.
EV sales fell from 17% in September 2023 to 11% in March 2024 and still falling.
Reuter’s quite EU EV sales down in the last month of 7%.
In 2024, compared to same period on 2023, EV sales are down 10%.
Source: European Commission Alternative Fuels.
You were saying?
I wasn't going to buy an EV due to cost. Then I saw the price of used EVs.
I got a 21 plate Hyundai Ioniq for £11k.
Its costs me between 24p-36p to drive to work and back. It cost about £5 in my ice.
I no longer need to make a detor to a petral station, just plug it about once a week.
GOOD DEAL FOR YOU BAD DEAL FOR THE COMPLETE IDIOT WHO BOUGHT IT NEW
They they are a real bargain! The price of them are collapsing because know one wants them. Too much supply, not enough demand = free fall. Fingers crossed you have no battery issues.
@@stan_austinwait til these new batteries start coming out. Old EVs might even drop even more.
Wow! Used EV’s are worth peanuts !
Exactly what we are telling you all.
How many times will the public buy a new EV knowing they will cop a huge loss like that?!
I can’t believe how you can celebrate used EV prices crashing and not realise what that is telling you!
You won’t be laughing when it comes time to sell your “cheap” EV on.
ONE question for the Telegraph. How many hundreds of billions have been given to the fossil fuel industry? Answer that
Trillions actually!
@@wotireckonimportant money used to pay for the Telegraph perhaps eh 😂
How many did Fakegraph get from oil lobbies?
How many millions have fossil fuel companies and ICE car manufacturers spent on advertising in this newspaper, which is only good for kitty litter?
How about YOU answer your false claim, that all you EVangrlists and activists regurgitate?
Why does the fossil fuel industry need or get subsidies?
It is inherently one of the most profitable industries in the world. Whole nations are built on massive wealth created by it.
The richest companies and individuals are all in fossil fuel.
No.
The fossil fuel industry is a huge payer of taxes to your government.
Directly, and indirectly through fuel excise too.
So go on, put up evidence of your bs claim.
You can’t, it doesn’t exist.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you (we are here), then you win.
Blockbuster, Kodak, IBM, Swiss watch makers, every time there is a change in technology in a product it is new comers that make the transition, because they don't need to make any transition, whilst incumbent manufacturers struggle and often fail to make the transition! All we are seeing is the old companies failing to make the transition because they have left it too late and they are too invested in the old technology.
To be fair to Kodak, they invented the first digital camera. But they panicked that it'd kill their film business so didn't develop it. And then their fears came true 😮
That's the problem why legacy companies are rarely able to transition to a major new product. They will lose their legacy base of buyers. So they start living a world of denial until one day another company has taken away all the legacy customers.
well on the Other side look at what Kia/Hyundai are doing and building new factories in US and Mexico and the sales show it
The fatal flaw in your logic is that all the companies you mention lost out to tech that was cheaper, more convenient and practical m.
EV’s are none of those things.
They are the opposite.
Cost more, less practical and less amenity, shorter economic lifespan, far worse depreciation, slow fill time, half the range, more costly to repair and insure, etc.
As EV’s currently exist, they are a step backwards.
We bought our first EV for our family last month, and we bought our 2nd EV last weekend. We're never going back as we're saving a fortune and the tech is brilliant. We have a BYD Dolphin and a Tesla M3 arriving next week. There is so much ignorance from the people who don't like change.
YOU WONT BE ABLE TO GO BACK AS YOUR EVS WILL BE WORTH NOTHING FOOLS
Me too! Bought a corsa e in May, tesla model 3 performance in July, both second hand. Never going back to muggle transport!
First EV in July. Ioniq 5 at $10,000 off as new models about to show up. LOVE this car!
The Telegraph is dying, along with the rest of legacy media. I do not mourn their passing.
One day the Telegraph will print something that's entirely true. I won't hold my breath.
Sadly they seem to be disappearing down the click bait plughole that has already swallowed the Daily Mail and the Daily Express.
They probably get the date right.
@@chrispitchforth621I would not hold my breath.
Accidents happen
Stick to the mirror......
Can you please stop reading the Torygraph, Will? It’s starting to affect *my* blood pressure…… 😂 Remember, these are the people whose “journalist” told a podcaster friend of mine that they only write things that “their readers want to read about” (i.e. they don’t do “journalism”)….said oik walked off rather than continue a discussion about what “journalism” actually meant…….and that was at a well-known EV show.
PS - I may have to seriously think my EV ownership. In the first 27,000 miles and one year I have just had a whopping bill for maintenance: £22.50 for repairing a tyre after a slow puncture. At least in an ICE car I would only have had to have three, or so, oil changes……😳
Telegraph = joke comic.
In a 2007 Bloomberg article the author of the Telegraph piece, Matt Lynn, predicted that Apple Inc. "…will sell a few to its fans, but the iPhone won't make a long-term mark on the industry". Hmm
The problem with all the "just let the market work" is that there is no cost for polluting the environment. If there was a pollution and CO2 tax, and fossil fuel subsidies / tax breaks were eliminated, then the market would swing to EV's and renewables without help.
we have had carbon taxes in canada for years. it does nothing.
besides CO2 is not pollution
Totally agree. The ICE manufacturers and petrochemical industry have been allowed to externalize the cost of environmental destruction to the public and discount the future life on the planet. Worse still we’ve subsidized oil exploration with 10s billions for years. As soon as someone gives grants to a new disruptive technology the luddites start to scream at the impending disruption.
@@specialkonacid6574really? How is CO2 emission not pollution? But good to hear your disposable income is large enough to ignore fuel price.
@@paulhaskins5191 CO2 is essential for life. What's next, oxygen is pollution?
@specialkonacid6574 Well said, CO2 is a natural product and the food of life, without it there would be no life.
I stopped reading the Telegraph a while ago for this very reason, this is not journalism, it’s tragic.
My Bolt is the best car I’ve ever owned and I’m old.
250 miles for four dollars with no maintenance
It’s a no brainer unless you believe the Big Oil
propaganda
e-208 2020 owner here. Just back from a 540 mile trip. Now the e-208 is terrible at 70mph for a long period of time, so I had to stop twice on the way up and twice on the way home. But it was only 20 min each time while I either pottied or got a coffee so it was hardly arduous. And when I was there, there were zero issues with range.
Total cost was around 12p a mile.
And when at home, I charge once a week for pennies in comparison to before.
I'm not changing my EV. I'm already starting to think about my next one along for long distance driving.
Just wait a couple of years before you decide. Battery tech changes every day. New models come every day, Prices fall and will fall even lower than ICE cars in the next 2-3 years.
Get a Tesla!
@chrishar11they already are 2nd hand!
Obviously don’t follow Tesla depreciation.
In the last year alone resale values have crashed.
No surprise when Electric Jesus cut prices 4 times by a total 20%...because sales were so, um.
Not good.
EV will always be more expensive because of the huge main cost component being the battery.
Great Grandpa also said the same thing against automobiles when he could not find the gas stations after driving 10km...
Ridiculous comparison.
The ice car revolutionised mobility and transport around the world.
The EV is just another version of car that costs far more only to offer less amenity and practicality.
@@ChristianDee-s9d EV cost a lot less than ICE. Only American EVs are effing expensive for less amenity and practicality.
Explain how EVs are less practical? You talking about charging? True there are less charging stations than gas stations. I plug and charge my EV at night when I go home. THUS I always have FULL RANGE by morning. You definitely dont fill up every day; therefore you are driving with less and less range capability.
Show me 1 EV model any car maker sells that is cheaper than its ice powered version.
Nobody ever has made such a ludicrous comment.
EV’s are inherently more expensive to make because of the huge cost of the battery.
I cannot believe the fantasy land you talk of.
EV’s have half the range of ice, fact.
To say ice has less because if you don’t fill it every day the range reduces is hilarious.
What?!
As for all the amenity and practicality, well let’s see.
Hours to charge v minutes.
Half the range v ice.
Thousands more to buy v ice.
Cliff drop depreciation v ice.
Higher insurance v ice.
Higher crash repair cost v ice.
Half the economic life of an ice. When the battery dies throw the EV away.
EV’s can’t tow much or for very far before charging.
Heat and cold affect EV range but not ice.
EV’s cost more to repair and have far higher repair incidents as revealed by consumer surveys of hundreds of thousands of owners by JD Power and Consumer Reports.
You can’t repair an EV DIY.
I could go on but that will do
I sat in a Tesla model 3 and Y this weekend and oh boy they are so comfortable WOW
Which did you prefer? 🤔
Agreed they are incredibly reliable and safer to drive as well and dont pollute the environ😢ment either ice vehicals have had their day and good ridance to them
Try driving one!
Only the vacuous believe EV’s do not cause pollution or harm to the environment.
Who cares what Fakegraph writes? Or the Daily Fail?
Ridiculous FUD - this won’t age well
only the western auto makers are collapsing not the ev industry
Who saw that coming? 🙄
Ony non Tesla Western auto makers are having issues
@jamespaul2587 Chinese EV manufacturers are reducing in number massively. The home Chinese market has now reached the early adopter ceiling and EV's are piling up, this is the main reason that China is now trying to dump their EV's abroad ? Unfair Chinese state subsidies are replacing domestic manufacturers on price and therefore have an unfair advantage chasing the small EV market that is left.
Finally!
Somebody commenting on here who has actually researched the facts that the likes of Bloomberg Business, Reuters and The Wall Street Journal regularly report on!
The CCP deliberately put billions into EV’s in a direct attempt to undermine the one remaining western industrial powerhouse: the car industry.
And yes, from an initial 500 EV makers in China, under 90 remain.
That is expected to fall eventually to single figures.
Those in here are locked in a vacuum that disallows any diversion from their blinkered narrative.
so, you are not westerner and you are happy about that. You want chinese cars.
Due to inflation we have to keep our paid off gas cars. We plan to go EV next but despite the savings is gas it’s still cheaper to keep an old gas car that is paid off. Like many families, we have to do what is necessary to keep paying the mortgage and food bills. 🙁
Sell your gas car, buy a second hand ev. They are now CHEAP!
Yes. Used EV’s are so very cheap.
Why is that?
Join up the logic dots mate.
Hello Will, I love my demo drive in a model 3. I am doing my best to make sure my next vehicle is an EV, just so much nicer in every way
Hello there! That was my reaction too. It surprises me that others don’t at least give an EV a go before deciding they are just a fad! Just a joy to drive (well, most of them)
😮 the torygraph, Big Oils mouthpiece 😮take a few copies and leave them all over sainsburys 😂😂😂
living in a comedy ev misinformed bubble
Ironically, that can be read both ways.
EVangelists sure are misinformed.
Hope is the truth.
That article is so obviously sponsored by big oil. As their ship sinks they will get louder and louder until silence. They will die with a whimper. The writing is on the wall. We just need to keep fighting their nonsense just a bit longer. As you are. Great job.
That writing may be on some wall in a urinal but it certainly isn’t in the sales figures.
EV’s are going backwards despite a decade of mandates, tax breaks and tax payer funded subsidies.
10% fall in EU 2023 to 2024 as just one example.
Tesla slashing prices 4 times in a year by 21% attempting to arrest falling sales and clear a stick backlog of over 50,000 parked up Tesla’s.
Ironic choice of metaphor. Considering 2 huge car transport ships have been sunk by EV’s going into Thermal Runaway in the last year.
Lol.
I am so close to buying my first Tesla the telegraphs may mean my Tesla is keeper. It drives like a dream and in every way out performs my Series 4
Do it! I just bought a 2020 m3p. Never going back to mugglemobile
Nearly 5 yrs for me. I'm jealous, I wish I could relive my Tesla journey right from the beginning, it's been the best car I've ever owned. Changed my life for the better and those around me. You'll like driving it so much you'll make excuses to drive it. Then find Camp Mode and look up Tesla Camping UK. Love the owners community, it's full of forward thinking, straight talking, super supportive people just like Will. 👍
For me, the main problem is the "pressure" exerted by government technocrats who want to move too quickly. The market and the population are unable to keep up...
Well said
The environment waits for nobody. If we are too slow getting to net zero the environment will make life very uncomfortable.
when we went from horses to cars, it took a while to get gas stations where needed. But most folks did not travel much because they couldn't and needn't. Today, commuting is the norm, so we can't just pop a couple of charging stations here and there to fulfill demand. Folks have to know they can charge easily on long trips, and have some way to charge at home, which is the real game changer. Also, if you are serious about climate change, you then know we are already behind the eight-ball, and therefore cannot move fast enough!
@@Trashed20659 Agreed, good people (and I believe that is most of us) want the change, for the future of humanity, our children. But cost of living is extra hard for so many right now, most can't keep up with what policies are pushing for (as the original post says). I'm all in on a sustainably-powered EV transition - there's no faulting the logic in my mind, but I myself cannot afford a new or even used EV at the moment. So I see both sides and I can understand the resentment (even demonisation) that many folks feel, who would buy EV's it was a sensible, economically choice for them, but just can't afford to yet. Meanwhile, the more financially fortunate can enjoy the benefits of EV's, and feel good about themselves too. Eight-ball indeed, but hopefully that eight-ball will slowly move out the way.
There is no correlation proven as the climate alarmists would have it, that CO2 causes temperature increase.
In fact, it is the other way around.
How is it the 3% humans produce of CO2 is a problem yet the 97% caused by nature is not an issue?!
Big Oil wastes more taxpayer $ than EVs ever have.
The EV market is tiny in comparison so not really a compaarison.
Another vapid and baseless comment about fossil fuel and money.
I challenge you to show evidence of the oil industry getting all this money in subsidies you and your delusional mates all claim continually, whilst never providing evidence of it.
It is a lie put out by the activists and nothing more.
Feel free to show evidence of that totally unsubstantiated claim.
No need, you can’t because it isn’t true.
@@ChristianDee-s9d Big Oil is susidized, and we don't need to trade it.
You're wrong.
Oh, but we do need to trade it.
So far you have put up zero evidence to support your claim while on here I have repeated discredited this misinformation so many on here repeat.
You saying it isn’t so is not a fact, it is an incorrect claim made by the activist lobby around the globe despite it having been clearly shown to be false.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR YOUR TESLA THEN YOU WOULDNT HAVE LOST SO MUCH MONEY ON IT
Why are you shouting? 😂 but thanks for your concern. I’ve saved £15,000+ over 5 years of ownership thanks to practically zero maintenance and £2 fill ups on an overnight electricity tariff. It also saved my family from a potentially bad crash and swerved to avoid the collision. The value of which, was priceless to me
Just bought a 4y old model 3 performance. Best car I've ever owned
We all know the real maths doesn’t add up to your claim.
The AA and RAC inform us annually of the real Whole of Ownership cost comparisons.
As for avoiding an accident, where were you, the driver, at the time, lol.
Plenty of fatal accidents have occurred because of Tesla driver and driving functions, the USA law courts are dealing with them.
@TeslaJigsaw my Model S saved my life too. From a van doing 70+ in the fast lane going the wrong way down the dual carriage way. Would have been a head on 140mph crash. On this point, safety alone, proven many times over, Tesla are super safe and that's priceless.
@@Rebelbexski wow. Terrifying, but thankfully avoided. It’s moments like that which make being in a Tesla Priceless
Hyperbolic nonsense. No European car manufacturer can match the standard of electric vehicles coming from China at any price. Making a competitive vehicle is a pipe dream. European EVs are near dead, sure. That does not mean EVs are dead, quite the opposite.
HOW MUCH FOR THE CITROEN AMI EV BATTERY??????????????//
Chinese companies don't have tens of thousands of workers that design and install alternators, starter motors, gear boxes, clutches, radiators, fuel pumps, exhaust systems, egr valves, combustion technology and engine blocks.
If they sell EVs at the real production cost ICE sales will crash. They want are gradual change but I don't think they will have that luxury.
Such sadly flawed assumptions we hear over and again.
Plain fact, Chinese or any other car maker: EV’s cost far more to produce because by far the most expensive component is the battery.
You fail to note China also can build far cheaper ice too.
Plenty of ev drivers have gone back to ICE cars including my father in-law - who lives in 80% EV ownership Norway! He bought new electric VW SUV and hated it after trying to enjoy it for 18 months. Traded it in for F*ck all just to get rid of it. Now has Audi diesel SuV and will never go back
Are you sure you are not a fossil fuel industry paid disinformant. If not you are exttremely unusual. Your father in law will go back to EVs because diesels will no longer be available.
@@rogerphelps9939 i bet you don’t even know that manufacturing an EV produces 3 tonnes more carbon than making an ICE car- mostly from mining for battery chemicals. An Ev must be used for 6 years to cancel out this extra carbon pollution - they aren’t ‘green’ at all. People have been conned
@@rogerphelps9939 no ‘roger’ I’m not a misinformant- I think you’re just ignorant like many others about Ev’s
@@trev1978 Strange then that I have two EVs, a Leaf and a Skoda Enyaq. Thet are brilliant cars and I would never go back to an ICE car. EVs are superior in prety much all ways and they are an essential tool in getting to net zero which must be done if ourStrange then that I have two EVs, a Leaf and a Skoda Enyaq. Thet are brilliant cars and I would never go back to an ICE car. EVs are superior in prety much all ways and they are an essential tool in getting to net zero which is essential if our grandchildren are to have a future.
@@rogerphelps9939 can you carry heavy loads or tow anything far in your ev? Or drive more than 400 miles without charging? Can you ‘fill up’ your tank in 10 minutes like you can an ICE car? ‘Net zero’ will never happen anyway as long as developing countries like India continue to add more coal burning electricity plants
At this point EVs are self sustaining. All car manufacturers now have an EV offering...
Um no, no they don't.
This is very true
Seems Rachel Reeves can't spare taxpayers money to keep pensioners warm this winter. I wonder if she will be as ruthless with the ridiculous subsidies for Luxury EVs, probably not!
I have news for you. There are no subsidies for luxury EVs. There are of course massive tax breaks for oil and gas companies though.
Republic of Ireland
Since 1 July 2023, you can get a grant of up to €3,500 for battery-powered electric vehicles (BEV). (Previously, the grant was €5,000). The grant for BEVs only applies to new cars with a full price of between €14,000 and €60,000.10 Apr 2024
You are all living in bs on this forum.
For the hundredth time, fossil fuel companies do not get subsidies.
That is a blatant lie created by the activist Green lobby.
I challenge you to provide evidence they get any.
in 1910 The horse and cab drivers were saying: these automobiles are too expensive, smell bad, make a lot of noise, need a special "chauffeur" (literally a technician warming up the car before it could run), road were not adapted, needed a lot of maintenance, and gas stations were nowhere to find as the oil industry was still in it's infancy. In 1920 most of road transport in large cities was done by car (with the exception of public transportation), prices of car went down by 80% (Ford T), oil stations everywhere, new roads allowed suburbs to develop away from the center of the cities transforming the whole landscape and economy.
a typical car in 1900 could cost between $1,000 and $2,000 (equivalent to around $30,000 to $60,000 today when adjusted for inflation). The price of the Model T dropped significantly. In 1908, the first Model T cost about $850 (equivalent to around $25,000 today). By 1920, the price had dropped to about $300 (equivalent to around $4,000 today).
Tesla ... the next Model T ?
Great points. Next up for utter disruption? Tesla Robotaxis. They will change the entire Transport model
@@TeslaJigsaw absolutely! Why own a car ? The TaaS business model is worth trillions. It disrupts the oil industry, the insurance industry, the classical taxi industry, the truck industry. 90% of the cars are useless, parked, using garage space. Real estate willl be impacted. Full autonomy means 95% less accidents. that will also impact social security, less people in hospital but at work. Less police forces needed to check traffic. The averag american family will save $5600 per year in transportation alone: That's equivalent to a 10% salary increase!
What an oft relied upon trope.
Ice revolutionised human transport and endeavour and did so rapidly and without laws or subsidies to do so.
An EV dies no such thing, in fact, it is a backwards step by many metrics.
I
An EV is just another version of car that costs more and does less.
@@ChristianDee-s9d EV prices are going down, TCO of an EV is already lower than ICE. The trend is to have prices going down and range increase. The real step forward and global adoptiion of EV's is full autonomy.
Spot on.
My EV is unequivocally outdated, 30kwh leaf with Chademo , having said that done 95 miles today on one charge with 20% left ( gom says 26 miles left) so for an 8 year old EV it doesn't do bad , definitely won't be going back to Ice but will definitely be buying a used EV with bigger battery and active cooling and CCS ! 😁
If it wasn’t for early adopters like yourself, we would never have got more affordable EVs 👍
Get an MG4. Great to drive, good range and cheap insurance. Test drove a model 3, but the best insurance I could find was £1300 at 63 years old with full ncd and clean licence. MG4 LR was £320 by comparison.
@@kevinison5539 MG is an option but tempted by a used Kia eNiro or even a Hyundai Ioniq 38kwh ( small battery but by far one of the most efficient EVs) another possibility is a Ioniq 5 , the used car market is maturing now so there's more choice 👍
Eniro is a great car, but they have their issues. We bought a kona that had the early signs of the failing primary reduction gears and had to return it. A friend of ours also sold their eniro with the same problem too. We also test drove a Kia Soul that again had the early signs. Kia is aware of the issue and generally play the delaying game by changing the gearbox oil and then the motor mounts etc when the only real cure is to replace the motor and gearbox assembly. It's a subtle noise at first that gradually gets worse over time until you can't ignore it. Trouble is it's likely to be out of warranty by then. The noise is similar to CV joints if you know what they sound like, but the clicking is roughly four times the rotation speed of the wheels. Be sure to do the following test on a test drive:
1. Find a quiet road with a decent hill.
2. Stop the car on the hill and drop the windows if it's quiet outside.
3. Gently pull away at walking pace and you'll hear a very obvious click click click if it has the issue.
Some cars seem to be fine even with 100k miles, while others show the early signs at under 20k.
The sound is often confused with the pedestrian warning sounder which can drown it out as that click click turns into a higher frequency hum at higher speed. You tube or google "Wheel of fortune noise" as it is similar to the flapper on the wheel of fortune. I read somewhere that the problem is due to machining tolerances putting the gears into excessive mesh, which in turn breaks through the case hardening on the teath. It's a shame, because both the eniro and kona are great cars otherwise and soooo efficient! Real mile eaters.
The MG4 is more of a drivers car tbh, even if not as efficient and practical as the eniro.
For reference, the wife and I have had between us: Nissan leaf, BMW i3 Rex, kona 64kwh, the newer MGZS ev, and my MG4 Trophy. So well into our EVs and never going back.
To be onest , a rwd model 3 has low range , people hate having to charge so often , i own one and my passagers always complain about us stopping to charge . The range needs to duble for my car and the winter range triple . This is neded for mass ev adoption ! Nobody want to charge every 200 -300 km .
OECD numbers
$1 Trillion / year is used to subsidised the oil industry in the USA alone.
$6 Trillion / year internationally is subsidised to the oil industry, 5% of GDP of the world.
£10 billion/year in UK used to subsidise the oil industry.
Don't tell me that we waste "lots" of money on the green industry.
Totally false.
The oil industry is NOT subsidised.
The deliberate distortion of what are tax deductions for businesses that use fuel and so, can get a tax claim as a legitimate cost.
It is a lie to call that subsidies to the oil industry because they are not the ones getting the rebate.
That is like saying Andrex gets subsidies because companies can claim the cost of toilet paper.
I read this falsehood spread globally and wonder at how it is people just accept such a thing without examination.
@@ChristianDee-s9d Try as you want, the OECD and IFA say otherwise. You don't understand corporate tax and subsidies. Get a life.
Try as much as you want in offering nothing better than personal insults, that doesn’t change the facts.
I am the one who bothers to study those claims and reports, clearly something you do not do.
If you did, you would know and agree with what I said.
The deliberately misrepresent the normal tax deductions any business can make for costs incurred in operating that business.
That is not a subsidy.
That is the fact of the matter and you in dumbly denial doesn’t change the facts.
To a sensible person, the notion a hugely inherently profitable business like oil getting subsidies doesn’t ring plausible in the first instance, especially when in the case of the USA there is the Democratic Party in power and they have a radical Green agenda.
But then, you are not a sensible person.
Your bs lie you wish to cling to was exposed in Australia during the last election.
Usual shit, fossil fuel getting $11.3 billion supposedly in subsidies.
That claim was investigated and, surprise, it was the usual lie of calling tax deductions as being subsidies.
Not for the oil industry, even worse it was based on any business that claimed fuel as a legitimate business expense as being an oil industry directed subsidy!
My Lord, the desperation of Green activists to lie so blatantly.
In this case, they got called out for it in public.
I became a convert from petrol head to EV in 2014 (10 years now). One thing I have come to realise... while established media and large car companies keep pushing their negative propaganda - they continue to give room to the growth of a new mega car manufacturer - Tesla.
Firstly, 🫡. And yes, whilst Legacy Auto dilly dallied for years, Tesla accelerated beyond any reach of others catching up. Tragic really, could have been far different
I spent thousands and thousands in my life, since 1980s to have a nippy small hatchback. It wasn't easy to catch 150-200 HP with a 1-1.5 liter engine. Broken turbos, failed transmisions, broken pistons, so many evenings spent at the back yard fixing thast, changing the other, wait for weeks without a car for a part. I saved my life when I bought the BMW i3. I open the hood just to add windscreen fluid. And I have more power and torque than any Peugeut Rally, FIAT Uno-Punto turbo, Polo Gti, Starlet, Yaris etc. Now my problem is to not forget to push the brake at least once every day, to avoid get any rust on the discs.
Does anyone still buy the Telegraph 😮. Only people who are asleep will read that article.😊
Like "Geoff Buys Cars"? Absolutely.
"Newspapers", oil, coal, ICE cars...all walking dead men.
@@Richard482 Absolutely.
Battery recycling plant postponed? The basic requirement for a recycling plant is something to recycle, and pretty much the only EV battery packs available for recycling are those from cars that have been put through mandatory safety crash testing, faulty packs end up getting repaired and reused. It'll be another 20+ years before the EV battery materials "circle" gets closed because these things have a much longer useful life than anticipated.
Here in the real world, the facts are very different to your invented opinions.
EV battery arrays are very complex, difficult and hazardous to break down.
The hard fact is the cost of recycling exceeds the cost of a new array.
Despite your fantasy there are plenty of dead EV batteries already.
Volvo Cars made record profit in Q2..... never sold more EVs 😂
So they did! Bravo Volvo 👏 (I rather enjoyed driving the EX30!) …but can they survive without ICE sales? Are they prepared for Autonomy? 😬
I haven’t bought a newspaper in years, I’ve got an ev, I really like it and won’t be going going back to ice any time soon. Don’t watch the news a lot, there’s nothing I can change! I live my life and do my best not to worry about the main stream bs.
Amen. And the bs gets more shrill by the day
The only companies left will be Tesla and BYD…everyone else is finished
I couldn't have put it better myself, problem with digital it never goes away and this will smack The Telegraph in the face and prove its ignorance.
When I can go on my camping trips fully loaded with family, trailer and roof box, and can do a minimum of 300miles between charges, and that charge takes around 2-3 minutes to complete in full I’ll get an EV. Until then, no thanks…. A long trip would be a nightmare. My brothers about to get an EV through work. The only reason is for the tax incentives, that’s the only reason! Even then he’s keeping his Audi diesel for the longer trips cuz he doesn’t want the hassle…. The technology has its merits but it also has very significant deficiencies which is stopping mass adoption. Don’t be a fanboy and accept that fact.
Blablablablablablablaaa
Wawawawawawawaaa
Neither have they mentioned the billions of dollars/pounds poured into the oil industry in subsidies and tax breaks.
Trillions actually
False claim.
Been corrected a million times and still some people want to repeat it.
Fossil fuel is about the biggest tax payer both directly to government and indirectly through fuel excise.
They get NO different tax allowances than any other business.
Going by the lie claim, we must be subsiding Andrex for toilet paper too, ffs.
Fossil fuel is hugely profitable and needs no subsidies.
It has made whole nations, companies and individuals wealthy.
Stop denying reality.
Unreal.
You all sing the same proven activist lie.
The oil industry does not get, or require, any subsidies.
That is a confected distortion related to regular business tax deductions and has been exposed as such countless times.
If you don’t believe me, put up actual proof they do.
Think logically, a hugely profitable industry that created the world’s wealthiest nations, corporates and individuals.
The USA has the Democratic Party in power with their radical Green New Deal that is all about EV’s and renewables.
Yet supposedly they paradoxically give big oil subsidies?!
No.
Oh, dear. That ignorant claim that always gets trotted out by the EVangelists!
“EV’s are simpler, they have less parts”.
Sorry, no.
EV’s are highly complex cars with very expensive tech that can and does fail.
When it does, the cost to repair is far higher.
Then, there is the battery elephant in the room.
In 8-12 years when that dies, your EV is scrap value due to the huge replacement cost.
Meanwhile, an ice car can regularly live on for double that time, with normal and economically viable services and repairs.
You're badly misinformed
Am I really?
I have the biggest consumer surveys on the subject to prove my claim: Consumer Reports and JD Power.
I have motoring organisations worldwide, such as The AA and The RAC who release annual reports and I can point plenty more.
EV’s are shown in those surveys to require 49%+ MORE repairs than ice and at a far higher repair cost.
Why are insurance costs higher for EV’s?
Because the repair costs are so much higher they get written off for far less impact damage.
As usual, I can point to factual reporting and research data as evidence of my claims whilst EVangelists can only make baseless denials.
Like you did.
I find consistently that EVangelists are very much non car enthusiasts and have even less actual technical understanding of either ice or EV.
That is clear in all of their overtly incorrect assertions they make.
Like because an EV has no transmission or less parts in the motor itself, that must make them simpler and more reliable .
Like I said, no actual tech knowledge.
Typical Tory press!
Done 50,000 miles in my Tesla, it’s never seen a garage and I’m a mechanic 😂😂😂
" Everybody hates electric vehicles until they drive one".
I have owned an EV for just over 8 years and at first it was a novelty. Now after only 40k miles covered ( I am a keen cyclist, motorcyclist, campervanner and have another two ice cars ) if you are wondering, why the low mileage. The battery has degraded by 42% now, after the battery was cared for well and hardly rapid charged at all and never left on charge or at 100% for long periods. I have suffered all the well doccumented logistics and changing problems as well and many other well known maladies associated with owning an EV. Most of the other EV's on the road have hardly any age on them in comparrison to my older EV and I am just waiting for the avalanche of degradation to come from EV's in time that are quite new now.
The fact is ALL batteries degrade with time and use cycles and hence nobody really wants to take a chance on a second hand EV, with dubious battery health and range going forward, hence dealers won't touch them and neither will consumers on the whole, meaning the used EV price has crashed. I have learned my lesson and will never buy another EV, ever again. My other two ice cars are 16 years old and 20 years old, a Mercedes E Class diesel and a Mazda MX5, both cars work perfectly still and both have the ranges I bought them with new, The Mercedes being 650 miles brimmed and can tow a 7.5 metre caravan 350 miles. Something that no EV can do. As time goes by, more people will come to the realisation that EV's are not progress or better than what we had before, by a large margin. In fact just not fit for purpose, apart from an expensive local runabout, exactly the use case that milk floats were used for !
Tesla battery warranty: 8 years/120000 miles.
@mikeforwarduk My warranty on my EV was 8 years or 100'000 miles, the guarantee was for 75% at 8 years old and if it fell to less than that, faulty cells would be repaired to bring the EV back up to 75%. Only done if battery checked every year and only at the manufacturer's 'discretion'. You don't get a new battery. So all they have to do is say no.
Thanks for confirming efficiency when towing with an ICE, it's around 50% with a Tesla, pretty similar and you've all the data at your fingertips. Range is growing, give it time.
Having just completed a 3k, 10 country over 9 day tour of Europe where pee breaks were charging pitstops, I can confirm that was all that was needed to keep on going and going. In fact peeing cost more than my charging which was free! Point being no equivalent petrol pump time, which would have been wasted time. I also didn't need to waste time checking the oil or radiator level, or endure the pain of slow trip planning with ancient tech, laggy infotainment system and we could go everywhere, no city center restrictions.
Degradation is real, nearly 5 yrs on, it's minimal. When it comes, the savings to date will be used to cover it.
Who tf checks fluids in a new ice car?!
When people start talking such overt crap, they lose any reasonable person and show themselves up to be irrational and fanatical.
Just like the crap about time lost in comparison to ice.
We all know your take is utter bollocks.
An EV towing has abysmal range, another well documented fact.
When you talk such crap (apparently you have an enlarged prostate judging by endless piss stops) you just put sensible people off.
You love EV’s?
Fine.
Just don’t try to justify it with bs.
On one side are the people telling others to dive into a technology before it is developed sufficiently. On the other side are people unable to understand the technological change over time.
I'm fine with technological change , so I'll just wait until EV tech catches up: When the batteries can be charged for 400 miles, in a decent sized SUV, in 3 minutes, in any weather, without degradation, and all at a competitive price.
I completely agree with your sentiments. Sales of EV's in China are steadily rising. BYD is also profitable, with at least one other manufacturer about to be. It is the lumbering dinosaurs of the West who are going extinct.
Well Done and Right On
Extremely high interest rates ? Somebody has not done their homework.
I've recently got an EV and I will never return to ICE. My only regret is that I waited so long.
#MeToo!
Not only are batteries one of the worse energy storage mediums you could choose for cars, cars are also one of the worse applications you could find for batteries. Here’s why: Batteries have less than 2% of the energy density of petrol at 204Wh/kg vs 12,000 for petrol. This means EVs must a have shorter range and/or be heavier than ICEVs. A battery capable of storing 100kWh is up to 100x the cost of s petrol tank capable of storing the same amount of energy which means EVs will always be more expensive. Batteries are struggling to achieve a 4C charge rate (15 minutes charge time) whilst a petrol car can easily achieve the equivalent of 12C (5 minutes refuelling time). A petrol station can be set up anywhere without the need for additional cabling or demand on the grid. Batteries are easily damaged in accidents increasing insurance premiums for EV drivers as well as ICEV drivers since if you run into an EV and it if your fault it is your insurance which has to pay. EV fires may be rare but when they occur they cannot be put out by depriving them of oxygen which is not the case with ICEVs. If EVs are cheaper to run than ICEVs this is only because there is less tax on electricity than on petrol. As soon as the government put a tax on driving EVs to make up for what they lose in fuel duty this will no longer be the case. Subsidies on EVs are unfair on people who don’t drive cars and mandates are a threat to democracy. EVs may be the future when we run out of oil but even this is questionable as by then scientists may have figured out a way of making synthetic fuel which works out cheaper or more convenient than driving EVs. Finally batteries would be better put to use in flattening the duck curve which would give us cheaper and more reliable electricity, not less. This phrase brings me on to lockdown, the purpose of which had nothing to do which keeping hospitals from being overloaded and everything to do which closing small businesses and transferring the trade to large supermarket chains and Amazon, as well as increasing vaccine sales. This was the second biggest scam in human history. The one we are facing now has got nothing to do with saving the planet. Man-made CO2 makes almost no difference to global warming, but an increase in it would be beneficial to food production. This is the last thing the global elite want since a food shortage would be a great way to control the public in order to introduce a Chinese style social credit system.
Theres always a massive slant to anti EV news.
A quick pock at it, and you find the truth is very diffrent.
So new EV’s don’t cost more?
Don’t deprecate far worse? Don’t take ages to fill? Don’t have half the range? Don’t cost more to insure because they cost more to repair. Etc. etc.
@@ChristianDee-s9d Yes they do cost more, but prices are coming down.
I don't need to wait for it to charge, it takes 10 seconds once a week to plug in.
Insurance was £50 more, but I did add my wife.
I do about one journey a year where I will have to charge at a motorway service station, I normally stop for more than the half hour it'll take to top up.
The hardest thing about going to an EV has been going to grab the gear stick that isn't there.
The best bit isn't even that it only costing a few pounds to top up. It's knowing my personal choice has hurt your feelings.
Battery EVs are growing globally each year including first half of 2024. The Chinese are coming in numbers for world markets. With good quality well priced and high safety rating vehicles. If tarrifs get applied the Chinese will just make their cars in the market with Chinese labour. Not stoppable . It’s just a matter of time .
You are not reading fact based reporting.
EV sales are not meeting projections.
Why do you think there is massive discounting going on?
Tesla 4 price cuts totalling 21% in the last year is just one example.
Nobody slashed prices when sales are high.
Rule of thumb - don't believe anything you read in the papers especially the Telegraph.
Opposite of nimble - monolithic.
I have a BEV and a backup diesel car for emergency. The only outdated technology is my crap manual diesel. I admit my diesel is reliable and goes from A to B , but future tech it isn't.
A backup car for your EV hey?
Nobody ever heard of having a backup EV for their diesel!
That’d be because it isn’t needed.
@@ChristianDee-s9d It's needed for the occasion that I have to drive 300+ miles to other cities for work. The wife uses the BEV, for work. 90% of the time I commute into London on a motorbike. So yes it's needed and old school diesel is actually the best for occasional long journeys. As I write, I'm now covering 2 weeks holiday cover in a project in Manchester. Which of course isn't practical on a commuter bike designed for smaller journeys.
I got a bottom of the barrel '24 Chevy Bolt EUV and I don't want to go back
I always say if EV's are so unsuccessful they wouldn't need to be banned...
Can I ask do you have a home charger and how long to you have to wait around to charge on the road.
That is the real problem. You might be sitting in the best car ever produced, until the power runs out and there's no where to go.
I've just bought a 2nd hand tesla model 3 performance. The Tesla charging network is outstanding. And my home charger is 1.5p per mile
You are 100% right !
Electric cars are way too expensive, they should be much cheaper since they are MUCH simpler to make, I don't believe the whole, "batteries are expensive" mantra. Battery prices have plummeted so new car prices should have plummeted. Legacy car companies make huge amounts on maintenance and parts which has vanished under their electric brands, seriously cutting their profits, more will go bust. Garages hate electric cars too, since they need MUCH less maintenance. Government forced electricity prices up to match petrol, reducing one of the nicest benefits of owning an electric car, cheap prices per mile. Charging networks rip their customers off to use fast chargers (if you can find a working one). It's no surprise that consumers don't see the reason to get one. It is way cheaper to get a petrol car and that, has virtually infinite range. I have a Nissan Leaf 40kw, it used to be cheap to run, now electricity prices make it the same as petrol, tax changes will soon make it even more expensive and lifespan of the battery is unknown. I like the way electric cars drive but they need a 400 mile range (100kw battery) and be the same price as petrol cars new to buy, for people to want them AND the charging network needs major work, with price caps to stop rip off (Instavolt) prices. I don't want to go back to a petrol car but i may be forced to over the next couple of years, its just economics.
2nd hand evs are now cheaper than ice equivalent. Look on autotrader
And get on the eon ev tariff. 7p per kwh at night. That means 1.5p per mile!!
I've owned 2 EVs (2012 Leaf & 2021 Bolt) but have reluctantly gone back to driving an ICE car. In Michigan, we're charged an extra $140/yr for EV plates/registration. And my insurance dropped almost $50/mth when I went back to ICE. But the deciding factors were really 1) In the USA we have areas with few DC chargers (Virginias, etc) making it harder to travel long-distance and 2) GM screwed me over with the recent Bolt battery recall forcing an "update" that limited charging to 80% for what would be 2 years with what I drive. So here in the US, there are still hurdles & costs to overcome. Guessing I'll go back to an EV in a couple years. But they've still got some issues to resolve.
There is a big difference in public charging between the US and the UK. Biggest US issue is lack of charging infrastructure.
I'm sorry for having to deal with that, it's a total injustice. I believe the government is useless in creating more chances for the people trying to drive EVs here in North America. Now, I suppose you had your reasons for not buying a Tesla, I don't want to get into the details, but living with a superior product, granted, a little more expensive, has its perks. In the same manner you could say an Apple laptop is more expensive than a Windows one, to make an analogy.
But Tesla, besides being more expensive, has the chops to make it simple to drive EVs, and even if you don't agree with the company policies, or its leaders for whatever reason, you have to see that the majority of people choose Tesla for the full experience, and choose to ignore all the other issues. LOL, that depends on your level of BS tolerance. But my thinking was that if I refrain from buying the best EV around, I'm actually punishing myself more than the intended party. Because they sell enough of them to not care about my feelings whatsoever. After all, this is a product made in USA by USA workers, at least I'm helping my people keeping a job, since most of the money goes to them.
Anyway, maybe when all EVs have access to the Tesla superchaging network things will change for the better for all the EV manufacturers. As for me, I own a 2018 Nissan Leaf (for around town mostly) and a Model Y (for longer trips).
Seeing the difference of those costs I understand your choice of going back to ICE. I might have done the same myself, but luckily my costs are the same regardless of the type of car.
I tried all the insurance dealers around, I am changing mine every year (pit one against the other for a better price), but essentially one guy told me literally that it's more expensive for EVs than for ICE. When I asked why, he said "risks of fire are higher". what??? I asked for the report proving that, he said it was an internal report (not public). Meaning, that company has an agenda against EVs. I hung up and tried another one. You just can't win like that.
But anyway, good luck
The US needs to catch up but seems determined to remain irrelevant. The rest of the world doesn't need the US to be relevant, so if it wants to kill its own Auto Industry it can do it all on its little lonesome. If it wants to play with the rest of us it needs to adopt EVs.
I do wish I'd been able to afford a Tesla, but it was out of my budget. Hopefully it won't be when I shop my next EV. Politics-wise I'm an independant & don't care if Musk wants to go one way or the other. He has valid points for what he does, agree or disagree. But I'm very much looking forward to a better charging infrastructure in the US and making chargers more universal! :)
I drive a Tesla Model S Plaid 😁 (0-60mph ~2 sec... and F-ing LOVE it!), wife has a Tesla long-range Y (NOT a car girl and LOVES her Tesla), daughter has a Tesla Model 3 Performance (loves fast cars and HER Tesla... which was just a few years ago was in supercar performance numbers... 0-60mph, 3.1 sec!) We have solar, Powerwall, ZERO electricity bill other than a small mandatory connection charge, zero auto maintenance, no wasted $ to Saudi Arabia and stupid Middle East War concerns. MOST people should really consider EV, Tesla or otherwise, especially if they want lowest cost of ownership, GREAT performance, near-zero maintenance, are sick of auto dealerships and ripoff maintenance expenses, awesome software/navigation display, Tesla Supercharger network (AWESOME!), and yes, I could go on and on!
Agree Will
Just about to buy my third EV
Who and where does all this bad press come from. Do you think it could be accelerated by interested parties, let’s say the oil industry.
Nobody mentioned the fact that billions are put in to support the nuclear industry.
The doubters have to understand that growing a relatively new industry is going to cost money initially but in time when EV’s are the norm costs will come down
The big oil companies already started to invest at renewables power sources, grid and EV charging stations. They know what it will come. Only those who read these nwespapers can't see what is going on!!!!
The only way I can explain the anti ev hysteria is that it is being funded by big oil.
My M3 LR insurance was about £100 a year less than a similar priced (but inferior and slower) BMW ICE in the same comparison on the same comparison site. No maintenance required, even brakes last forever (well almost) as you hardly ever use them.
They compare the top notch Tesla with the base model Corolla. One has 400 HP, with autonomous driving and everything that you can ask from a car and the other has 120 HP, electric windows and mirrors without auto A/C.
@@chrishar110 Yep, typical legacy energy / auto funded propaganda, can't wait for these greedy bar stewards to get what they deserve when the population wise up to a green energy future.
I just won't pollution
In US: A recent study by US insurer, AutoinsuranceEZ found that hybrid cars had the worst fire record, while EVs were the least likely type of car to catch fire. Hybrid cars had 3474.5 fires per 100,000 sale; petrol cars had 1,529.9 fires per 100,000 sales and EVs had just 25.1 fires per 100,000 sales.Oct 25, 2023
In addition there's 5,000 petrol station fires, 5,400 home natural gas fires. Dozens of pipeline leaks and fires. Many fuel truck fires. All this plus climate catastrophes growing every day due to spewing 51 billion tons of greenhouse gases pollution.
Thanks for the actual data, rather than hot air!
Oh dear! Doesn’t anybody on this EVangelists forum do any critical thinking or data examination?!
By far the biggest cause of fires of petrol cars in that report is from cars stolen and set on fire after a crime or for insurance fraud.
The next main cause is age and inappropriate maintenance.
Not due to inherent issues of fire proclivity.
Regards EV’s, well we all know they are new or under 10 years and their high cost means they will be serviced by the book.
Yet, still, they suffer from an inherent problem in battery design: thermal runaway.
There is no increase at all of so called climate catastrophes.
Even the latest IPCC report categorically states that very specifically regarding all forms of extreme weather events.
To say otherwise is simply a lie and fear monger img by activists.
I wouldn't buy a citroën car it drinks range like water until you see the dealer and they fix the problem and then they say they did nothing now my vehicle does mile for mile
Cracking presentation, Will. The Daily Telegraph, whose ownership variously by the Barclay brothers, contested by various other dubious financial interests … such a reliable high integrity news platform, read by the hardcore blue rinse stalwarts. Excuse my cynicism
Well said Mr Ghandi!
I'm not pro or anti EV. But about the cost of an EV why do they cost more to buy when "there is hardly anything in them"?
Second hand ones are now cheaper than ice equivalent
You did not answer his question regarding new EV’s
It is unbelievable the rubbish printed in the Telegraph. Unfortunately the majority of the people reading this will actually believe what is written.
Conversely, a minority of people don’t believe it.
They are called EV fans.
Truth
Tele needs to know I have to the world wide patent on water powered cars. The will take over everything.
Very nearly tured into a Rant! there Will
Perhaps the telegraph itself is obsolete
I find this whole black and white mentality with EV, ICE and hydrogen really pathetic. There was a time when we would have found interest and excitement in any new tech. Why do they have turn everything into a culture war.
My biggest surprise is the lack of excitement/Interest in this clearly better technology. Stubbornness is strong, as are culture wars about anything it seems
Because everything EV was a lie. The Democrats Pushed to get their Adjenda (Money) allocated for all this.
@@TeslaJigsawFunny, you actually think EVs are superior cars/trucks. Then why is it every day EV companies are going bankrupt.
Funded by big oil
Only EVangelists like you think a car that costs more and depreciates far worse, has half the lifespan, half the range, less proven reliability, costlier repairs, costlier accident repairs hence higher insurance, crap towing ability, affected by heat and cold and takes an age to charge, is in any way an advancement.
That’s why everyone still avoids EV’s.
Not hard to figure.
I have given up. Cannot afford anyway . Biggest mistake mankind has made. A neighbour cancelled their order when the insurance was found to be well over £1000. So he stayed with his deisel as i have. Love to drive an EV , must be a wonderful experience. But it's the cost involved. Sure the right technology will change the situation eventually. Battery tech has already improved. Hey there costs down to £20k , it will be a winner. One major mistake by Tesla is the integrated structural battery's. Need say no more.
Bought a 1 year old 5000 mile Vauxhall corsa e in May for £14300. Cheaper now than ICE equivalent. Plus 1.5p per mile!
I always thought that though the driving experience would be great, I couldn't live with the limitations. But I realized I was wrong when I drove one for the first time recently.
The driving experience sucked. 'Instant torque' is the last thing you want negotiating a tight parking space, or pulling out quickly on a wet surface. The 'regen braking' feels exactly like the emergency brake is always stuck on, so you even need to 'push' the car downhill rather than enjoy freewheeling. The road noise was worse than my own gas car- maybe the extra weight on the tires, I don't know.
Moon made of cheese says Telegraph 😮
Well said
Car insurance, deprecation dropping are affecting all cars. Maintenance is minimal on EV's but massive on ICE cars, as are fuel costs.
Tesla only make EV's and are profitable. BYD are profitable and sell many EV's, MG are selling many EV's and make a profit. These are companies that saw EV's as the future and made a change. Many small companies popped up as they always do, Some will survive but many not.
The legacy car makers seem to think they can slot an EV motor and some batteries in the car and people will want them. They will only be profitable once they embrace and cut costs in their production.
Battery prices have halved since last year, so as you say storage costs , large scale, home or EV. This is making renewables more and more relevant as well as EV's. Once we see more smaller cheaper typical family cars at a great price, they will be snapped up.
Always love the way you do these stories!
Thanks for that 👍 I can’t wait for the day we see EVs for £10,000 with 250+ mile range. It’s already the case in China, and only a matter of time for those Companies that are driving down costs relentlessly
@@TeslaJigsaw We just need proper competition, without extra trade tariffs! Legacy will have to evolve if they want to survive.
What sort of self absorbed idiot would cheer on the deliberate CCP subsidised strategy to undermine the last great western industry, with all of the issues to western prosperity, tech capacity and yes, defence capacity?
Oh, of course!
An EVangelist!
Despicable.
No, sorry.
EV’s have well documented huge depreciation far worse than ice because there is no demand for them in the used market unless they are crazy cheap.
Regarding insurance, EV’s cost far more to repair so logically insurance risk and loss adjustments dictate that higher cost carries with it a higher premium.
Oil fuelled rhetoric?
For sure
How about actually proving cogent evidence that counters it instead of vacuous comments?
They are right about subsidies. Lets bring an immediate end to subsidising the oil industry, then listen to cry about the lack of help to transition to EV.
Meanwhile, in the UK, fuel duty is rumoured to be going up 10p and everyone is crying over it. Wait until ETS charges get passed down. They'll all have a nervous breakdown.
Still perpetuating the lie about oil industry subsidies, regardless of being given ample explanation of that being untrue.
Once again, if you want to claim they do, put up evidence to it.
I won’t hold my breath.
Hey smug guy, if in your fantasy world everyone must buy an EV, what do you think is going to happen to replace the biggest tax producer for your government: fuel excise and tax on the oil industry.
Your sucking off the system with your EV’s is coming to a close.
Feel free to provide evidence of those oil industry subsidies all of you parrot about.
I say to you the same thing I said to everyone else on here, there are no subsidies.
That is a lie put about by activists that misconstrues refusal tax deductions all business have under tax law.
Nothing special, nothing unique and not a subsidy.
A blatant misrepresentation and every renewables or EV activist believes it.
The truth is the fossil fuel industry is the biggest tax payer to government, both directly and indirectly through fuel excise tax as well.
All of you on here blindly sing the same lie.
The oil industry doesn’t get subsidies, the Green activist lie of turning normal tax deductions every business may claim for costs, into calling them subsidies.
It seems no matter how many times that claim is proven as nothing more than a lie, because it suits renewables and EV fanatics, you keep on repeating it, in the belief if it is repeated often enough it will magically be seen as true.
The method employed by a famous minister for propaganda in the 30’s and 40’s.
I just had an interesting thought. I know Elon Musk says he wants to save humanity but I don't believe him in the least. I think he and his huge ego just want to put it to other car companies and we benefit from this because he has to use better and more efficient technology to do this, so we get better cars out of the deal.
Elon makes pennies from cars. The big money is on grid support batteries, charging stations, space projects and Starlink.
You forgot the real cash generated by selling Carbon Credits.
He makes peanuts out of actually selling cars.
Absolutely true , probably sponsored by dying desperate ice company’s 😮😮😮😮😮😮
Exactly, in fact it probably all boils down to this point
It isn’t ice companies going broke, it has been EV makers.
Another 2 just recently.
@@ChristianDee-s9d well tesla and byd are doing pretty well.
BMW just announced profits were well down.
There time is limited,they did not plan ahead to change EV manufacturing. They will eventually have to close down all ice manufacturing.
Then what? No business left.
Tesla going well?!
Share price dropped from $4 3 years ago down under $2 today.
Corporate profit fall of 45% due to 4 price cuts this last year due to falling sales.
Total 20% price slashed.
Over 59,000 unsold Tesla’s parked all over holding yards in the USA.
Even in Australia there are 6,000 sitting unsold.
Tesla make money selling Carbon Credits and not from their cars.
Start reading proper business news sources such as The Wall Street Journal.
For as far as can be foreseen, ice cars will continue to exist and sell in greater numbers than EV’s.
If anything, Hybrids are seeing the big rise in sales while EV’s fall or stall.