Can you substantiate ANYTHING that you've said?! - Destiny debates Vincent James
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Today we learn about how not to use statistics.
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Date streamed: 04/03/2019
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It doesn't matter if he can substantiate anything. Everything he said is true so they're all great points and he wins the debate because I am omniscient and know exactly what Truth is.
Digibro is that you?
Dad?
Snowball Effect CoNfIrMaTiOn BiAs Is GoOd
EvErYbOdY iS a HyPoCrItE eVeNtUaLlY, mIgHt As WeLl NeVeR tRy To Be CoNsIsTeNt
You know, if you can just decide which side is right before a debate even happens like digi suggests, what’s the point in debate even existing as a concept?
i see what you did there. internets +1
as an aussie it feels like u guys only care about us for our gun control laws :'( what about our personalities
minimme lmao wow
Oh I care, you aussies thought it was a good idea to wage a war against the emu's, and yet you lost.
You silly aussie's.
It is because your gun control laws that I care nothing about you.
Ozzy Man is a goddamn international treasure, only second to Steve Irwin. That's what this Canadian thinks of your Aussie personalities. ;P
Naw mate, I love you Aussies for your awesome country (even though I don't agree with every single policy, hey, it's not up to me). You have some uniquely beautiful landscapes and wildlife, and I hope to visit some day. 🙋🏾♀️
42:19 “whoa whoa whoa, why’d you have to go to “race” Destiny?!”
- Man who brought a chart indicating the number of white people per state
b-b-b-but thats completely unrelated to race !! im only describing the type of people who live there
Becouse Gun voilence is tied to race
@@Replica_Films2000 oh do tell
@@Replica_Films2000 It is but don't waste time talking about it. No race based argument is going to convince a broad enough base to effect any meaningful change.
@@williameblen3474 They should learn to code.
This debate in a nutshell:
Vince: Here’s some stats to prove what I’m saying.
Stephen: Those Stats Don’t say what you say they’re saying they say this.
V: Yes they do, look at the stats again.
S: They really don’t, see take a closer look.
V: Boise, Idaho.
S: What? Why did you say Boise, Idaho?
V: Boy-zee I-Duh-Ho.
Jack Shawhan
Step 1: Boise Idaho
Step 2: ????
Step 3: no more guns for black people (a.k.a profit)
@@joeyl853 First off nobody thinks that...secondly crime is strongly correlated with socio economic factors. How many Black engineers and doctors do you see commiting violent crimes? Gtfo
Trey McKinstry 🤔🤔🤔
@@joeyl853 you aren't fucking black you dipshit. We arent stupid.
I decided to google Boise Idaho diversity, and the first result was "Boise Idaho, one of the least diverse cities in the US".
Haha, he also claims he's not cherry picking.
Destiny got destroyed in this debate by Boise, Idaho.
Destiny is pretending ignorance in about 40% of this debate, sad thing is he thinks he's a good debater
LOL YOU'RE SO DUMB DESTINY FUCKING SMASHED HIM YOU MUST BE ACTUALLY DUMB LMAO.
Boring, Idaho. Your delusional if you think that destroyed him. Makes vincent james the DOG WHISTLER. look even more ridiculous. He's a meme just like his binder.
@@cassetteo you a dumb fuck
Can you substantiate that claim?
I bet vince had a binder with him during this debate
yeah, a binder full of women he plans to shoot with his AR 15 :P
AMAZIN
Well its not like it made a difference
He’s the kinda big brain guy who would use a binder while sitting in front of a computer
Vince is getting his ammo from think tank playbooks guaranteed
Hey, he might not be able to substantiate his claims, but he still made good points. Someone else substantiated them somewhere else.
Hey Digibro
Just gave me ptsd
Oof... i'm traumatized
haaaaaah I see what u did
@@jasonhymes3382 I don´t know if youre meming but you do know what substantiates a claim is right? Thats´s literallywhat he is doing by citing and linking scources that give deatailed information on a larger scale.
I’m gonna commit forever sleep if destiny debates this guy again
Literally same
Jamil Baltzar I like this debate tbh, he doesn’t sound like an overall ignorant person. His bias may lead him to the wrong conclusion on some points but I see room for improvement.
Edit: Hurts my brain whenever this guy acts like he doesn’t want to bring up race, holy shit. You’d get more respect (from me at least) if you flat out said it instead of dancing around the edge.
do it pussy, you wont
No, don't become a member of that statistic. You only prove his point if you do.
@@anotherks7297 lol nah this guy csnt even read a graph wym?
If you listen closely you can hear him flipping through his binder.
What's wrong with a having your talking points and data points on hand?
@@sethbishop3306 It's just a funny meme because in the debate between Vincent and Destiny on Jesse's show, Vincent brought that binder and made Destiny really uncomfortable because he didn't realize they were supposed to do shit like that. Also, his binder has the stupid cherry-picked data in it with graphs HE made (he literally cut the homicide rate graph of Australia right before the homicide rate started decreasing). God he's so terrible lmao
Someone else provided this guy with all his points... I know this because he can't even properly explain or defend the positions he's espousing or explain how he got to those conclusions!
Kyle Shebilske to be fair that’s most people I don’t think most people can logically back up their arguments
Pee Wee look it’s one thing to source your data and come up with your own beliefs.
I think what we are talking about here is a guy has sources but can’t put together any substantive points using the data he brought up.
Unless you are a researcher you won’t have any unique data to work with. The rest of us take data and use it to form an opinion.
Vincent seems to have an opinion then he cherry picks random data to back up his opinion. Then when he can’t defend a challenge he falls apart 🤣
Vincent’s arguments were a direct causal link to my brain cancer
Underrated comment
Reasonably Inteligent Yes. The 1.7 trillionth cancer joke to be made was absolutely underrated.
@@quintenpena693 so edge, very jaded
Allergic to truth huh?
@@quintenpena693 thats tuff
Wow, Destiny got Boise, Idaho'ed in this debate.
If it's 400,000.00 house holds that own the guns that means there is more access to guns, if there is 2-4 people per house that would mean you multiply the 400,000.00 guns x 2-4 which would make it 800,000.00 - 1,600,000.00 people who would have access to those guns, so the real gun ownership was somewhere between 600,000.00 - 1,000,000.00 in Australia during the time the gun related homicide rates dropped, proving Vincent's point, it's not the guns that are the problem, but the people, it's time for mind control 😈
Destiny just got ASSASSINATED ︻デ═一 🎯 🔫 DURING A LIVE STREAM th-cam.com/video/hP4dV9h-_6I/w-d-xo.html
Take your upvote and gtfo.
@@chevchelios3904
US has 30 times more gun related homicides per capita compared to Australia.
Guns and crime are directly related.
Guns are force amplifier, it kills people easily because of which the victim's family wants to get revenge and the cycle of hatered is perpetuated and crime increases. Its more difficult to kill people with a knife.
Also police violence in US is because of guns. Police wouldn't shoot people at the first instance if they didnt suspect people of carrying guns.
People arguing guns dont cause violence have worms in their brain.😂
Boise, Idaho has had rising suicide rates think they are in the top ten as well. Kinda weird
Binder Andy this whole debate:
...BUT IDAHO
...BUT CHICAGO
...BUT BLACK PEOPLE
Don't forget "Muh Constitution!"
FOLALU Don’t even think he mentioned any of those more than 3 times (other than Idaho) in the first hour. I think you turned off critical thinking mode and went full regressive.
@@anotherks7297 you're joking right? Destiny repeatedly mentions the fact that this troglodyte's OWN data, when read properly, fucking proved that increased access to firearms lead to increased gun violence (especially with the Wisconsin data), but Vincent keeps wanting to pivot to his carefully selected data points that didn't even prove his points.
He is a fucking idiot, and you are an idiot as well.
@@asare240 lol, you didnt address this dudes comment. You failed.
Elitest2 I think we might disagree on the overall issue here...
but I thank you, sir/ma’am.
Destiny got causally linked in this debate
I thought destiny was just playing this guy talking on a loop, for a minute.
Sure.... the temperature increased when my house caught fire, but there's no causal link...
I mean, have you been inside of a volcano? It's way hotter in there and there's less fire...
Me: Buys energy saving light bulbs to reduce my utility costs. Then my bill reduces in the following quarter.
Vince: But how do you know the new bulbs you bought were the cause of your reduced bills? My mate in Holland said his energy bills fell in that same quarter.
Wheres the causal link though?
You are the one implying the causal link, and before you ask me if I'm literate.. Boise... Idaho;) checkm8
I love how the OP and whoever upvoted them don’t understand that this is a textbook example of the ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’ fallacy. This fool really thinks he’s making a point.
@Watching TrainsgoBy but lets be honest, thats not the point of the comment. It would only be that way if he didnt write the second part to mock the even more ridiculous comparison.
@Watching TrainsgoBy Gotta love right wing fanboys trying so hard to defend their "representatives" even after failing so hard throughout the debate. Fucking sad and hilarious.
WHat iS Statistics
First 20 min of this debate
Edit: it doesn't actually stop being that
It's hilarious if that's what you mean
Yep. We're starting from basic logic and basic maths not being understood
First 20 mins? That's Vincent the ENTIRE god damn debate. All the alt right idiots are able to do is create fantasies that justify whatever they want to believe. That's the entirety of their logic.
Wait it stops being "wHaT aRe StAtIsTiCs" at some point? Amazin
2 people are sick. One takes a pill, the other doesn't. Both people feel better. The pill must not have had an effect
Amazin'
BETA
Beta
@Rage Quit take ur damn pills
In fact with that exact info you have to consider that the pill both worked and did not work at the same time. You can not draw any conclusions either way here... If both people are exactly the same, with exactly the same "amount of sickness", then we can say the pill was not needed (but we cant say that it did nothing unless we know what rate they got better at). However that requires 2 identical people...
If the people are not identical literally no conclusions can be drawn because the non-pill taking person may have recovered faster, yet the pill actually made this person recover slower... OR the pill could have done nothing, or the pill could have saved this person's life, etc...
Please think things through before posting gibberish, you make the rest of us look bad...
After the digibro appetizer, my brain cells need a good 2 hour kill off
Mine nearly went full lemmings, your brain cells must be very powerful.
Z
Same here. This entire discussion/debate should have ended when destiny said "Yes, that is how ALL laws work, they curb the freedoms of everyone" but NOPE, Vincent had to double-down on stupid.
Just to stamp out this missconception: lemmings dont kill themselves for the survival of the population OR any other reason. The documentary about them was BS. But i have to agree my braincells also felt quite suicidal after this shitshow.
Destiny just got ASSASSINATED ︻デ═一 🎯 🔫 DURING A LIVE STREAM th-cam.com/video/hP4dV9h-_6I/w-d-xo.html
I'm not cherry picking!
(uses Boise, ID again)
I can't believe nobody ever explained percentages to this guy
They probably did
Destiny moved to Boise Idaho in this debate
Not the worst place ever, apparently pretty low crime
@Andrew Stevenson
Lol, there's obese people everywhere, and sexy people everywhere. Never move to an urban city, especially if it's just to find someone that looks good
THIS. IS. CONTENT!!! *kicks boomer down a hole*
I have CS degree and manage a college datacenter, makes me laugh when Destiny says "someone wolfram alpha this shit into a graph" , he's right haha @46:00
It rubs the lotion on its wrinkled, sun damaged skin or else it gets the anime again.
@@ricardo5651 right on, I used wolfram or mathematica or some shit back 15 years ago in a calc 2 class, and I just install the programs for the professors now, but I would be surprised AF if Vincent James even passed algebra. The guy is a weird sort of actor in my book, because he definitely does his homework but I think it just takes him the entire weekend to finish one page. He's either really really buried in his echo chamber, or suuuper fucking dumb, or probably both.
@TF MS huh ?
Lmao that’s gold
"It seems most researchers seem to say lax gun laws lead to more gun vio-"
"BUT BOISE, IDAHO!!"
Worst thing is, the reason why anomalies are interesting for research is because you'd want to know *why* it deviates. You can't go further and make something better with the logic this guy is applying to the issue.
' but obama was president ' : B
WHAT I'M SAYING IS.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS.
The other guy isn't even making any argument. What he is REALLY saying it: Oh, you don't have absolute concrete evidence, so that's why my position is correct and I don't have to give concrete evidence like I'm demanding from you.
well that's actually fair. you don't need any evidence to argue that a causal relationship doesn't exist, it's all on the other person to argue that it does.
not defending the guy, he seems like an asshole and i hate guns. just being a contrarian.
@@hpebackwards It's only fair if he applies the same attitude for himself, which he is not. He is making claims himself, but acts he is right without having to provide 100% concrete evidence.
The 'you might be wrong, so I must be right' attitude is not a good argument.
@@Cakemagic1 @Cakemagic you don't have to provide any evidence at all to make the claim that A does not cause B. it's on the other person to provide evidence if they want to claim that A does cause B. if a causal relationship was already proven, then yes you would have to provide contrary evidence to claim that there was no causal relationship.
if not, you can just assume A does not cause B based on lack of evidence that it does.
i hope you can understand what i'm saying.
@@hpebackwards We're on the same page here and I agree. My issue is different from this.
@@hpebackwards Completely agree.
"We have more guns now than 90s"
"We have less guns now"
"But we have more concealed carry laws"
"But that has nothing to do with this"
"It does, let's move on"
@attackmaster555 wasnt the point that only number of Guns is increasing, but number of housholds with Guns is decreasing?
@attackmaster555 kk my bad. Not sure what Mittens is arguing. I thought he is reffering to the video and just stripped it down.
@Oliver Cheney only because of the riots and covid also weve had alot of mass shootings in 2021 cuz of it
Let me just get my binder real quick
Binder full of women?
@@velrch7873 No no no, we don't fill our white binders with women, good sir. We fill them with graphs that we can't read.
@@FerociousPaul W I T H G R A P H S
Let me just google that real quick.
@@caseyash5971 Make sure you read the graphs properly after you google them.
Take a shot every time Vincent says "causal link" and kiss your liver goodbye.
Ahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha why is this so funny
Mathew Morrant that’s his favorite phrase of all time
Or Boise Idaho
Binder Andy, Causal link Andy, Boise Idaho Andy, he's really rackin em up
@@wormengine
Well, shit being an Andy isn't so, fun rn lol
gotta love the MAGA guys who dont know 4th grade math concepts.
Gotta love leftists without arguments and only personal attacks
that good ol white IQ
@@Replica_Films2000 are you a snowflake? can't you people handle a little bit of banter?
it's a hypocritical position to take when the bases of your ideology is exclusively restricted to personal attacks and feelings over facts.
@@rodolfodoce .....uh....im not a leftist
@@Replica_Films2000 Oh right, you're a part of the party that really wants to say the n-word and the fa-word because freedom of speech, right? You guys never everrrr engage in personal attacks. I mean, it's not like your party constantly brags about how good they are at memeing. Still stroking yourself off over the NPC meme?
I like how fake offended he sounded when Destiny started going ham on the dog whistling tactics.
"Ooooooh whaaaaaaat? That's not meeeeeeee..."
@samachi Destiny destroyed this guy...
1-destiny : makes an argument
2-binder-man : brings in data that doesn't refute destiny's argument
3-destiny : "that doesn't show anything, what i said is still valid"
4-binder-man : "it does"
5-destiny : explains why it doesn't refute his argument
6-binder-man : "no u, stop pivoting"
7- *binder-man proceeds to reset his brain to step 2*
this was painful to watch
Why do all these intellectually broke bois always say "we'll get into that" anytime destiny brings up a point
Then calling questions about specifics a pivot lol
Oh boy can’t wait to rot my brain with this one
Th left is committing brain cell genocide by debating these guys.
Homicide rate during the timeframe he gives in US dropped by 26.6% and in Australia it dropped by 37.5%. But he doesn't understand what a rate is and is just looking at raw numbers. xD
FACTS OVER FEELINGS !!!!!!
jesus fuck really?
_face palms so hard I crack my skull and my brain oozes out my ears_
To be fair, their is a huge population difference and less of a drug problem. I don't want to be anecdotal but drug crime in Australia is much smaller, generally in the US it's more pervasive and normally leads to a huge bulk of homicides. It's also noted that in some major cities where crime has risen, the opposite has happened in the smaller surrounding suburbs per capita. So I think using homicide rate country by country is pretty disingenuous.
@@TePiCkLeOfDoOm I agree with most of what you said, save for the population difference. There's no evidence that higher population leads to higher homicide rates. At least not on a country level.
@@Duckman1616 That point can be debated, more people are vulnerable to crime and more people tend to do it where their is more people, cultural difference is a big reason too, it explains why the city is more vulnerable to crime.
By the way here is some evidence to back up my previous point
ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-10
Teacher: "What's 2+2?"
Vincent: "Well, if we turn our focus to Boise, Idaho...."
16:20 7.5 to 5.4 is a 28% drop, 1.6 to 1 is a 37.5% drop. Guy just doesn't understand math.
Yeah, that one hurt. It kinda seemed like he figured it out at the last second and tried to just completely change the subject, but I'm not sure.
But see, one number is larger than the other. That means I’m right.
Destiny failed to substantiate the christian God in this debate.
But did he presuppose God?
I hate that I laughed at this haha.
It's been substantiated elsewhere, an another debate.
Did falsify it tho
@@norpp3547 Still no defeater though.
Dude why is all this low hanging fruit going after destiny?
He have way more subscribers than Destiny (I mean it's way more easy to be Conservative in the Internet but anyways), and his binders, I wouldn't consider that to be a low hanging fruit.
If it was someone like that Quartering guy, whole other conversation, no binders, no logic, only feels over reals woomz in bideogames REEEEE, that's a low hanging fruit if I ever saw one
Destiny's become a form of authentication?
'DesTINY the liberal's good at debate?! Hold my beer...'
because they actually believe the shit they say, the smarter conservatives are bad faith actors who read scripts and narratives, and avoid any debate with anyone who isn't a college student
@@ksilva2848 this comment helped me to understand what people meant by binders. I deadass forgot what the word binder meant and I googled it and found chest binders. I also had the thought that a binder was a clicker. I now remember binder=book of facts and logic to use vs liberals
Destiny got gunned down in this debate.
like a cupola o kidz
O ur using the per capita argument
WillWork ForCheese You realise it’s a meme right?
WillWork ForCheese you’re new here. It’s ok my dude
@@MadJackChurchill1312 what's it from?
Destiny u pinned him down so bad with Wyoming.. that he rambled away like a drunken 4 year old..
"What's the sample size on that? Anyway, here's a single city that proves my point. Checkmate!"
Substantiate? That’s not how you win debates. Just have the position that is correct.
Or... yeah, I think that’s it.
Earth is round because I’m a little teapot short and stout here is my handle here is my spout when I get all steamed up hear me shout: tip me over and pour me out!
Yes, I did debate in school. Does it show?
The Virgin - Chicargo
The Chad - Boise, idaho
Hotel?
Trivago
LMFAO. HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND RATIOS.
@covfefe innumerate
covfefe
Exactly! America is at a historically low gun ownership rate and the lower homicide rate reflects that.
he's a dipshit...
They really should by now considering how often republicans get ratioed on Twitter
@@miketheman4341 exacary
it's depressing to know my father would rather agree with the idiot who couldn't comprehend data than listen to the one trying to explain the data in an easy to digest manner.
I know I'm gonna get shit for saying this in the comments, but for the first issue, Vincent is right. Coorelation does not imply causation -> first rule of statistics anyone who's taken a stats course knows this. The onus is on Destiny to prove otherwise; if he asserts that there is a causal link between the two, he needs more evidence. Arguing that Vince must disprove the link or else it must exist is a fallacy ->Russell's Teapot
Destiny got bound by Mr. James' binder in this debate.
Ayden Carmichael-Whyte binder Andy strikes again with a vengeance
what like he’s a fucking sheet of paper? lmao
Destiny had his gun bought back in this debate.
The fact that these people don't have even the most basic understanding of statistics is so infuriating.
The average for the 7 years after the carry laws for Wyoming was 2.8, the average for the 7 years before was 2.1 His own source proves him wrong.
WY? LOL! A rural state is how we measure gun homicide? That’s laughable. I agree that conceal carry does not lower rates but using data from the lowest population states with no major metro areas is just not applicable.
there are more guns in WY than people......additionally, no one with a concealed carry license is committing homicide, at least in WY.
Joe Yelton
Yes because WY has more moose than people. In the real world people live in actual states with people and cities.
@@miketheman4341 his ow sources prove him wrong. Not prove Destiny right.
Cato Van Hoof
What sources? Cite them! Be very specific!
He sounds like a parody of Adam from YMS combined with Kermit the frog
Every time Destiny debates, a wrinkle in his brain turns unwrinkles.
Nah man he gets more and more woke. He's down with eating the rich now.
Moe's- fkin legendary
Destiny just got ASSASSINATED ︻デ═一 🎯 🔫 DURING A LIVE STREAM th-cam.com/video/hP4dV9h-_6I/w-d-xo.html
Destiny got hit on the head by a binder in this debate
Please get Steve on your show
Destiny just got ASSASSINATED ︻デ═一 🎯 🔫 DURING A LIVE STREAM th-cam.com/video/hP4dV9h-_6I/w-d-xo.html
Bruh how
Perfect Timing
I Just got home from work
Now I get to watch you while I play Pokemon Moon. My wife won't be able to watch shes Being Destroyed By Tyrone Magnus upstairs.
Lol
???????
Lololooklkooklkklllloloo
Lucky. My wife's boyfriend is always playing on my switch! guy has no respect. But he helps me open my soylent, so he's okay.
@@audreyalbritton1435 my girlfriend's son really likes Destiny's channel
I'm a professional race car driver, so I should be able to drive as fast as I want without speed limit restrictions on all roads... *because gangs (blacks).*
... Wait, what? 🤔
Lmbao
Hahahaha
joe smith bawahahahaha
Vincent: "If you look at these statistics here, you'll see that I'm right."
Destiny: "These statistics pretty explicitly show you're wrong, actually."
Vincent: "...I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that. So anyway, if you look at these OTHER statistics..."
Rinse and repeat.
There, I saved you two hours and eighteen seconds.
The fact that a few years ago i would be agreeing with VJ is scary to me ... good thing i stumbled onto destiny and started actually researching.
Yea I love destiny so much he really encourages you to think critically
And what research have you done? Care to share any of it?
@@117Ender what research has this idiot VJ done? He doesn't even seem to be able to read his own data properly.
@@asare240 that's not what this discussion is about. I'm genuinely curious what research OP has done. To get informed.
Your including a 3rd party that has nothing to do with it. Regardless if VJ, has done any research or not. That's not the topic of this convo now is it?
@@117Ender the topic... is about gun control. Every point VJ makes is based on data that he didn't even seem to read properly. OP says that, in his past, he would hear what this fucking idiot is saying and believe it, and he's thankful that he found someone who actually knows how to properly interpret data, and maybe even taught him how to think a bit more critically.
You are the one who seems to be completely confused about what the topic is.
Him: I have roaches in my house because they are roaches
Me: you have roaches because you leave food.
Him: no I have roaches because they like being around food.
But have you considered Boise Idaho?
@Darth Maul I can't tell when a comment is satire anymore because this is such common type of response now days. He's not equating blacks to roaches here, but if someone is looking for racist intent they will find it everywhere even where it doesn't exist. I'm not gonna walk on eggshells to avoid being misunderstood by those are hungry for offense
Watching TrainsgoBy Nah, you’re just an idiot.
Watching TrainsgoBy naw youre wrong
@@demolitionwilliams Say what you're going to say, and if someone calls you racist don't be a pansey and back it up.
The right wing dude literally needs to learn %change from 15:00 - 17:00
%change =( (final amount - original amount) /(original amount) ) * 100%
Australia
1.6 to 1.0
((1.6-1)/(1.6)) * 100% = 37.5% drop
America
7.4 to 5.5
((7.4 - 5.5)/(7.4)) * 100% = 25.7% drop
Destiny was right that Australia's rate dropped more by percentage.
I dont believe you also once again totaly irrelevant things i mean i know you cant argue with us but you could be a bit more defeated instead of pretending you havent lost
@@Replica_Films2000 Sorry you think math is a liberal conspiracy.
@@DanteRatto Soros probably once donated to a school -> schools teach math -> math is a socialist conspiracy to enable a white genocide.
@@Replica_Films2000 If we compare a village, to a city for example. We can see that 1 deaths doesn't mean much to a city, but 1 death to a small village means the death of a friend of everyone. The same goes for statistics, we look for TRENDS not number changes. This isn't math class, this is about determining the impact of something by looking at history.
@@MsHumanOfTheDecade uhuh.....thats not your talking point to have
lol, Wyoming's violent crime rate and homicide rate both increased while the US's went down and he actually used it as an example of his ideas working well.
Wyoming homicide rate
Average from 2005-2010: 2.13
Average from 2012-2017: 2.78
Change: +0.65
Percentage Change: +30.52%
US homicide rate
Average from 2005-2010: 5.35
Average from 2012-2017:
4.88
Change: -0.47
Percentage Change: -8.79%
Percentage change in Wyoming's homicide rate relative to percentage change if they had followed the US trend: +39.31%
I think Destiny doesn't understand what he was saying in the beginning. He was saying that Destiny thought that the only reason Australia's gun violence went down was because of the buy back but the other guy was saying that that is not necessarily true because America's went down without a buy back. He wasn't saying America had anything to do with Australia's declining rate but that America is an example of a country going down without a buy back and so he was saying that its possible that the buy back in Australia had nothing to do with the declining rate and that America was proof that that was a possibility. This misunderstanding makes the debate hard to watch.
@Völkischen Agreed, I have a coworker that argues in this style where they will intentionally ignore/misunderstand so that their world view/opinion isn't damaged. Destiny is most likely like this person I know, a rampant narcisist know it all.
The point is just because one country has a decrease without it, doesn't mean the buyback didn't cause Australia's
@@thesonofdormammu5475 The point is just because one country has a decrease without it, doesn't prove the buyback didn't cause Australia's
.
@@TheMatthewDuvall So this is a matter of strength of evidence. Australia implemented a buyback program, they saw a decrease. Other countries that did not implement a buyback program also saw a similar decrease. There wasn't just one country that saw a decrease, it was a world wide trend. I would say that there were other factors that were making people WORLD WIDE not shoot each other and Australia was part of this trend.
@@TheMatthewDuvall the point is that the US should not copy australia's buy back program based on the alleged certainty that their decline was caused by the program. That's the context. That's why the two countries were being compared in the first place - people were using Australia as an example of a successful buy back program which America should emulate. Which is why the endless two way nature of "well that's not necessarily true" is irrelevant because the comparison sufficiently casts doubt on the original claim that the US would experience a decrease by doing what australia did.
Destiny got causally linked in this debate.
69th
@Flekk Bone Gnawer Nope incorrect th-cam.com/video/KjdAvjEzJmQ/w-d-xo.html
The reason why the Australia debate is pointless is because first of all Australia, never had a gun problem to begin with, second Australia never had much of a gin culture, whereas America does. America is literally like 5 times their size, and much more diverse, America has constant immigration from dangerous countries that it borders whereas Australia does not.
@@vladimirlenin5660 ok
@@ItssAnAliProduction Indeed.
*BRING* 👏 *BACK* 👏 *THE* 👏 *DU DU DUU* 👏 *INTRO*
It’s honestly extremely unscientific to compare one country’s policies with another because there are innumerable confounding variables that would ruin such a comparison based on a binary variable (had gun buyback/did not). It would be disingenuous to claim causality in the first place, but acting like you can explain one country’s crime rates from another ignores social attitudes, political structure and policy application, access to therapy, local news biases, etc. is patently absurd
The more debates I watch the more I'm sure that if everybody at the beginning defined what they wanted to say as precisely as possible, those debates could be done within 10 minutes.
This. I love debating and arguing with people but most if not all arguments I get into now are all semantics debates. Super tiring
This whole debate was destiny trying to explain to James how statistics work.
He tried and failed, as always
not just statistics but literally basic logic and language
Flip the argument. "The Australian Gun buyback was incredibly successful look how much it lowered America's homicide rate." Just as reasonable as his argument in the beginning.
@IcantSeeReplies Doubting alone makes for an unassailable position. If his position is crime was going to drop anyways, present it.
It's really easy to just say "Well, you can't prove it was because of ____"
@IcantSeeReplies Wrong. Vince is saying that America's homicide lowering tangentially disproves the causal relationship between the buyback program and Australia's lowering homicide. This can only be true if a gun buyback program is the ONLY possible way to lower homicide, which obviously it is not. He repeatedly talks as if he thinks destiny is making the argument that the buyback program is responsible for 100% of the drop in homicide, when in reality there is just substantial evidence that it CONTRIBUTED. Any number of other factors could have lowered homicide in America.
@IcantSeeReplies There is evidence of a direct causal link between the NFA and lowered gun death rates in Australia.
@@testacer5101 What is the direct link as this seems to be the kind of conclusion studies on this matter come to: "Attributing reductions in suicide and homicide rates to the NFA is complicated by the fact that these rates were decreasing even before the NFA was enacted. There is more evidence consistent with the claim that the NFA caused reductions in firearm suicides and mass shootings than reductions in violent crime, but there is also evidence that raises questions about whether those changes can be attributed to the NFA or to other factors that influenced suicide and mass shooting rates around the time the NFA was implemented." (RAND, 2018).
@@JonSnow-sd1hl I was referring to proportionally greater decreases in crime in areas more affected by buybacks and by guns more affected by buybacks.
Destiny gave us a lobotomy in this debate.
*He totally didn't understand that he got the decreasing rates COMPLETELY WRONG LOL*
Lol... 48:12
Destiny: "what you just said is a non-sequitur
guy: "OF COURSE IT IS"
XD
Holy shit. Vince is the definition of the Dunning Kruger effect
This debate has so many pivots I feel like I need to take a dancing class to follow along.
Take a shot whenever Vincent says causal link
iM fUcKEd Up MaTe
Tomorrow's headline:
"Doug Dimmadome, owner of the Dimmsdale Dimmadome, found complicit in the mass alcohol poisoning of Destiny viewers."
Doug Dimmadome
I wanna wake up tomorrow
Casual link
Ice blue mink
Boise
Idaho
Destiny learn excel this would save you so much time explaining stats
Boise Idaho Chicago Binder Pivot Gang Member Causal Link Andy
around 49:00 destiny should've said that right to carry doesnt mean that the state is going to be more violent COMPARED TO OTHER STATES, but more violent COMPARED TO THE SAME STATE IF THEY DIDNT HAVE RIGHT TO CARRY.
this dude is so redacted that i dont think he wouldve gotten the pont tho
To anyone who just came across this, skip to 1:59:40
Save yourself some time. You're welcome.
Lol u got me
Thank you, you save me a lot of brain cells.
omfg kill me, why in holy hell did i not listen when i first read this. @Raging Pacifist is not a troll, just fuckin do it, i swear to god.
Vincent James makes an argument that correlation doesn't equate to causation. Loves to change the tune when it involves black people, outdated IQ numbers, and crime.
Also, I love how he gets defensive after you called him a white nationalist and brought up how he loves to portray black people as violent gun-totting psychopaths and then he screams how that's not an argument and you only did it because you were losing the debate. Keep in mind that this was a response after you brought up your own stats that blew his outdated junk out of water and he suddenly went into a tirade about a bad database that no one was using and claimed "it hurts POC's feelings." Strange how these types lack any kind of self-awareness.lol
As for how to deal with the gangs, I'm thinking he knows. He just doesn't want to say it because it would be a double standard where the second amendment is concerned. As he keeps saying, it's about making it easy FOR HIM to get the guns.lol
Also here's what's really weird: as the statistic shows, the gangs that are Latino and Black make up 46% of that grouping. Out of curiosity, what makes the other 54%?
@Lenny Carl You miss the point and repeating the soundbyte doesn't dismiss the argument, let alone answer the question. In fact, this isn't even about overall crime, but gang membership and activity. Are you trying to say that all black crime is somehow equivalent to gang crime or are you trying to ignore other groups in the gang?
Also, as you said, blacks are "overrepresented" in crime (or rather homicide, mainly). I gotta ask, why do you think that is?
I'm only about 50 minutes in, and I can't watch anymore. Destiny has provided excellent discourse, tried to explain the fault in VJ's logic, which most people could understand and agree with, and the conversation just keeps circling back around.
As that annoying useful idiot and weasel, Shapiro, likes to constantly claim, yet never practice.
*"Facts before feelings"*
VJ stands to learn a tremendous deal here, he should be thanking Destiny for teaching him some fundamentals when it regards basic reasoning. Give credit where it is due, be thankful when others show you the folly of your ways and provide you a means to improve yourself.
Thank you Destiny, I know it must be incredibly frustrating to deal with this on a daily basis, and that many of the people who you debate with may never change, but the impact you are having on the thousands of viewers is evident. You are "AMAZIN" .
Atheist Fryguy Shapiro is a clown that will only debate unprepared idiots. And he picks and chooses his own facts to suit his feelings and contradicts himself all the time and when it comes to Israel he is all about feelings. Why won’t he debate Norman finkelstein if he’s such a good debater cos he knows Israel are fucking evil and shouldn’t even exist
Can you provide examples of destiny proving him wrong? Just to get a tldr
@@117Ender
Sure, I'll try, however, I don't think I'll do it justice.
When comparing the crime index over a period of time, regarding the impact of specific laws that have been changed, one should focus on the area of which that law has taken effect.
What VJ tries to do repeatedly, is focus on two or more different places, with different laws, a different demography, and so on, . This is an irrational way to try to prove lax gun laws have decreased violent crimes in the specific locations they have been enacted.
When VJ points to a city, and proclaims they have tough gun laws and more gun violence, than let us say Wyoming, it doesn't prove that crime in Wyoming has increased or decreased due to lax gun laws. It is more of a red herring argument, to shift your attention away from Wyoming.
What Destiny tries to show VJ is the shift of crime to the specific areas over time that have made changes in gun laws, and allowed lax gun laws. In doing so for Wyoming it shows an increase in gun crime.
What VJ should do, is focus specifically on areas that these laws have become more lax over guns, and determine if they have had an impact on gun violence. If more lax gun laws were passed, and the gun violence decreased due to this, VJ would have a solid case, there would be no need to point to other states, instead he could focus on the states in particular that have made such changes to their laws, and show solid proof that they have resulted in less gun crimes.
I hope I explained this in a coherent manner, and it made sense to you.
killa cam what else do you disagree with shapiro on?
@@117Ender "Homicide rate during the timeframe he gives in US dropped by 26.6% and in Australia it dropped by 37.5%. But he doesn't understand what a rate is and is just looking at raw numbers."
Vincent: "I don't understand why you don't understand this"
Destiny: "Because I _have_ an understanding!"
Default Name That’s adorable
WOW.
Just got to point that Destiny's racism kicks in... on blast.
In which he not only deflects, but without even blinking he, also without support or previous indications, calls the other guy, the clear winner of this muddled exchange... the racist.
Huh?
Good lord so blatant intellectual dishonesty. And while I firmly believe in being ruthlessly mercenary ... even mercenaries should have standards.
"Why don't you go after the gangs?"
Ever been to court, Bucko? I mean, we've only had decades of anti-gang task forces, injunctions, sentence enhancements...
Must want shoot on sight.
@thesparitan notice how Vincent seems to think gang membership is all about skin color...
Destiny got added to the binder in this debate
Fun drinking game - take a shot every time he says "Boise, Idaho" to hasten the end to the misery that is listening to his arguments.
destiny has the patience of a saint holy shit, this guy makes me want to tear my hair out
Destiny made this man's argument for him and Destiny still won LMAO
I mean the AMOUNT of knowledge destiny has to undergo in order to argue against those wierd statements are insane
if only Destiny had a binder he would have won this debate
If only...
It's weird to me how these racists have just started to bore me at this point. So they don't like melanin, I get it, djeez.
Your face looks like a melanin lover
@@treymckinstry9177 Haha, so true!
Former alt-righter here. I recently discovered Destiny and watched him btfo so many racist cucks. I'm going to be a full-pledged lefty soon.
I'm not sure if your joking or not but you should stay in the middle.
Congrats bro welcome to the intelligent club these alt-righters are complete idiots
You were an alt righter with the last name Horwitz? In my experience, Jews (like myself) tend to be enemy number one. Uncultured Hicks. These people see all of life through a one dimensional lense.
I’ll take “things that never happen” for 500
The alt right doesn't exist. Thanks for leaving an imaginary cult.
When I saw the debate with you and this guy on Jesse Lee Peterson's show I thought he might kinda know what he's talking about but holy shit his arguments completely fall apart under just a little bit of scrutiny here. He's got brainworms.
I was actually at Monash University when that shooting happened and some of my friends were in the same building. That guy was an angry sociopath who was subdued by two people in the room after he killed two people. There was no way he could have done that much damage if he only had a knife.
You are sheep
emarskineel oh you’re a smart one. 😂
iamsheep he couldn’t have killed two people with a knife? Im not familiar with case
Jeff Cooper you don’t run away or attack him when you see him stab someone? You dumb arse
iamsheep I think it's too much of an assumption to say a knife wouldn't result in more injury or death. He could've just as easily stabbed the 2 people that subdued him.
That being said I agree with the general assumption that it's easier to cause a greater amount of harm with a gun.
Destiny got knifed in this debate
All you lefties love to pretend that knives don't kill more people than guns, but little did you know that all Muslims are required to get their Sneak to 100. It says so in the Quran. A Muslim with a knife can clear out a whole building before anyone is the wiser.
Just started watching this and I can tell it is going to be a Shit Show. These guys on the right don't know how to substantiate their claims.
Waly 007 don’t need to as long as they are good points
@@smiff513 What do you mean? You have to substantiate your points with studies and not just cherry pick data. You have to substantiate because "a good point" is very subjective on its own. A good point to you won't necessarily be a good point to me. A good point to a terrorist won't necessarily be a good point to you or me. So you have to substantiate your claim with actual studies. Like I am watching the video and the gun nut crazy dude is just an NPC going through his script and can't even respond to anything Destiny says.
There are sooo many good arguments you could make about having guns, but he isn't making any of them. For instance, the constitution, personal liberty, your right to defend yourself etc.... I could keep going on. The arguments the NPC has made in the video can't be substantiated.
@@waly0077 It's a digibro meme. Digi thinks confirmation bias is a good thing. You "know" what is true, so as long as someone makes a point that you agree with, then it's a "good point" even if it's not substantiated in the debate.
D: "The stats you gave me in this example don't substantiate your point."
V: "Oh yeah? Well what about ALL MY OTHER unsubstantiated points?!?"
Race is a very sensitive topic for Vincent. I wonder why?
CyberRonin
Probably because there’s a major agenda against “white” people and he’s aware of that?
@@NewNormalWorldOrder bullshit
@@NewNormalWorldOrder you're delusional
@New Perspective
Oh yeah?
th-cam.com/play/PLTZ7V0qrWv5I1sY85qteJa2iSaGqjQrTY.html
@@NewNormalWorldOrder don't breed
Destiny you know damn well he was talking about taking guns away from black people when he was talking about "controlling gun ownership" 😂😂😂
I wonder if that double first name dumbass thinks he's fooling anyone.
He wants black to be more armed with legal weapons not illegal weapons so you are wrong
@@averageo2343 He fucking destroyed your hero Destiny. Objectively.
@@TheGr8one1022 No he didn't lol. Destiny wrecked this guy.
TheGr8one1022 holy shit you’re a moron. Guess intelligence is not a concept in the alt-right....
Alls I'm saying is, Destiny got causally linked in the city of Chicago in this debate.
Vincent states that Destiny was applying a "causal link" to the Australia Gun Buy Back program and the homicide decrease in Australia (Where does he say that)?
Vincent says "that it can't be if the homicide rate in America dropped even more substantially than the homicide rate in Australia in the 90s"
Destiny claims this non-sequitur and it is. Expressed formally, Vincent is saying "if the homicide rate in America decreased more substantially in the America, then the Australia gun buy back program did could not have contributed the homicide decrease in Australia"
This is a non-sequitur stated as a formal conditional statement. These things have nothing to do with one another.
The point that Vincent was trying to compare that If America's homicide rate decreased when their was no gun amnesty, that there are possible causes of decreasing the homicide rate that don't involve gun amnesty programs. He then compares that to Australia, whose homicide rate remains the same in the presence of a gun buyback/ amnesty program.
He's trying to make the point that there are possible other and more effective methods of decreasing the homicide rate rather than gun amnesty.
The strongest argument that he could have made should have been something along the lines "I don't believe that the gun buyback program was effective in the decreasing crime because after the program was enacted in 1996 ; the homicide rate remained relatively constant and even slightly increased over the next 5 years; and he somewhat alludes to this at around 6:30" Then he could have said following that something along the lines of
"In addition, since there are various western countries whose homicide rate decreased in the absence of violent crimes, I believe that there are effective methods of reducing the homicide rate rather than gun amnesty". That would have been a good argument that actually relates back to the data that he has.
10:15 No it doesn't Vincent. We can see your argument, but you're not stating it appropriately.
10:55 Bingo, so Vincent actually gets Destiny right here if we're talking about the 1996 gun buyback program. The data shows that Destiny's claim is wrong. And there is no refuting this.
11:21 It seems that Vincent realizes the issue with what he said earlier.
13:15 I don't think Vincent reviewed this data beforehand and misread the graph. Given the data, this suggest that the gun buyback program decreasing the number of mass shootings. And that after 2002 there would not have been another shooting until 17 years down the line. So this seems to support Destiny's Argument.
16:45 It seems that Destiny is looking at the data from 2011-2012.
1:00:57 Because violent crime is relevant to protecting gun rights. One of the main points of people in favor of controlling gun ownership is that they believe that it is positively correlated - and in some instance even causes - violent crime. Vincent is trying to refute that point. It's not that he doesn't care about the amount of harm being to people or that he values it more than protecting gun rights. He's trying to make an argument that lax gun laws do not increase violent crime. Unfortunately, Vincent doesn't make it clear that this is his point but it is pretty obvious that's what he's trying to get at.
1:04:30 Vincent, you should be able to understand what he's saying right here. Destiny is arguing that the people who sell firearms illegally obtain them legally by purchasing them through some authorized dealer. But they sell the firearms illegally to people who commit violent crimes. In order to keep guns out of the hands of people who commit violent crimes, Destiny is arguing that making it more difficult for people to purchase firearms legally will make it more difficult to get them in the hands of the people who commit violent crimes. That argument seems logical but it would require some analysis.
1:10:00 Destiny has a better source than Vincent. His study is more much more broad than Vincent's Chicago study that only looks at a principality as opposed to Destiny's that look at inmates from across the United States.
1:26:05 This is a good point by Destiny and Vince disregards the question. Now according to the data that Vince had given apparently the amount of gangs per capita at 1996 and 2012. Now I did some easy math myself in order to check for the number of gangs per 100,000 people. The populations in 1996 and 2012 respectively in the United states were 269.7 million and 314 million. Taking the data from Vince's statistics reports suggest that the amount of gangs per 100,000 people were 313.86 vs 270. So in terms of per capita that is about a 14% drop.
So in absolute terms in 2012 there are more gang members, but relative to the population there are less members overall. Now, Vincent should have been more careful about selecting his data because this is only 2012. It doesn't give the gang membership of 2019, which would be better for a more recent analysis/ study. (And this might go back to Vincent's point about gang databases being deleted is a bad thing). But here Destiny is right. This information suggest that the rate at which people are joining gangs is decreasing over time.
1:46:42 This is not a completely illogical hypothesis, but at the same time it doesn't addresses Destiny's point. Destiny is making the argument that if a person has easier access to a firearm, the likelihood of them killing themselves increases compared to when they didn't have one. So the real question is, if i have a population that didn't have access to firearms for a period of time, and then i introduce laws that make it easier to purchase fire arms, Will the suicide rate increase, decrease or remain about the same.
That is the real question and that's the one he's asking you about. You making graphs that suggest that the per 100,000 suicide rate in the other countries doesn't address the problem. This isn't a good metric to suggest whether having easier access to guns increases or decreases suicide.
1:59:20 This is a good hypothesis by Vince. This could be due the a matter of numbers. If Destiny's study is only looking at the set of all crimes that have defensive break-in's and how many of them successfully defended themselves using some item other than a firearm and those who successfully defended themselves without one, then that could just be because that more people weren't in possession of a gun when they were being attacked. In order to measure such an effectiveness you need to take two sets of incidences. One of them would be where people are attacked who used something other than a firearm to defend themselves, and the other set would be people who attacked but used a firearm to defend themselves, and determine the total success rate.
I can't go through all the logical fallacies that are being committed on both sides. I think this debate was over all unorganized. I think both of them are "attempting" - attempting because they don't seem to be able to make them clear, even though you can sort of infer what they are trying to say - to make certain points. The whole debate is just bad due to misinformation because even at the very beginning neither one of them really understand what the other's argument was. This could be done again but I think both of them need to set the groundwork for what they are arguing for and against and the other people needs to get good analyses that supports their argument, find things that counter the other persons, and also
look for arguments that counter their own.
Overall this is a pretty bad debate. They both just repeat the same things without really asserting the other person's argument. More critical analysis and thinking needs to be done if there is to be a round 3. And hopefully if there is another debate that both Destiny and Vincent are looking for the truth of the matter and not arguing for some sort of agenda that they believe to be right. What is the truth of the matter should always be the objective for these types of debates.
Destiny is definitely arguing that there is a causal link between gun laws and gun violence...
destiny shoulda wore a vest in this debate.