Btw I already realize that people are going to say Roy is better, since a Roy player just won the Japan tourney. And it's indeed VERY possible that Roy will be better (esp due to the recovery difference, which can be significant). I also made this video many days before we even saw footage of Roy, we're just releasing videos in a certain time, slightly later than originally expected, based on currently known information. A lot of the purpose of this specific video is some theorycraft ideas on things Chrom could potentially do (must be labbed to be sure it works of course) to make him more viable (see usage of Fair total time frame advantage, frame traps, and the benefits of this instant KO upB. Worth experimenting at the very least, imo).
@@seraphim3599 I want to agree with you, but unfortunately the way DED works now, it's a bit easier to DI away from Roy so that he only really gets the tip of the sword pm the finisher. Quite unfortunate indeed.
I appreciate you taking a serious look at Chrom, as opposed to other people who are just completely dismissing him and calling him one of the worst in the game
Yeah i was one of those people, but this video made me take some more time to think about him. It's still too early to tell, but it's cool to know that everyone in Ultimate has SOMETHING going for them :)
While people have been calling Chrom bad, they never called him the worst of the game. The one people are calling the worst is Bowser Jr., he was so heavily nerfed.
LuizFelipe Porto poor Bowser Jr am I right? Here's my boi Robin getting levin sword Nair, better speed, cloud level dash and improved moves with only a couple of nerfs and then Bowser Jr pretty much nerfed across the board with buffs on his weak moves
Polymath Sorry, I misunderstood. But man, Bowser Jr. is terrible in Ultimate and the other character is competing with Bowser Jr for the spot of worst character in the game is Ridley from what I’ve heard. And the reason Ridley is considered so bad is very ironic. I’m sure you can guess why.
Chrom is one of the characters I'm most excited for in Smash Ultimate. He's one of my favourite Fire Emblem characters (and my husband) and Roy is one of the funnest characters in Smash 4 whose combo game will _absolutely_ get even better with the new dash mechanics, being able to dash up jab to start a combo, and have the new options of comboing it into another jab or even an fsmash at more distances than just foxtrot distance. Or fthrow someone and if they DI up they get comboed hard and if they DI down it brings them to a tech chase situation and now the options that you could only punish with something like double edge dance you can now punish with fsmash and kill super early. I've actually been thinking about potential combos into Aether for a while now, ever since I first saw it kill at _actually_ 0%. Chrom and Roy are versatile combo characters, I'm sure we'll figure something out.
Big Gay 2 same. For ultimate I’m looking for a swordsman as I usually don’t play with them and a heavy since Charizard is now Pokemon trainer. I’m just worried about Chrom’s recovery
Chroms biggest advantage could be fair strings over Roy however Roy's Hilter range has been increased in Ultimate, which could make Chrom highly redundant. Also Roy's sourspots are actually a huge part of his combo game, Chrom's combos looks to be entirely different. The Roy discord was worried Chrom would be Roy but better but it looks like Chrom will have a entirely different playstyle so unlike other echos you wont be picking Chrom is Roy isnt working.
Did they actually increase Roy's hilt range? So now his sweetspot is even bigger? I already thought it was pretty generous in Sm4sh, but alright, easier sweetspots are welcome.
@@ChunkyDogWater Oh yeah, if Chrom double Fairs his opponent off stage he dies. LOL! well....he might be able to air dodge back, but he still can't go as far off stage as Roy can.
I mean chrom can get back if the enemy can't retaliate and he isn't too far out I mean people are talking like roy has a good recovery but he doesn't it's ok at best
@@Shikidiky Yeah, but sometimes I actually go pretty far off stage to combo people, and the only reason I have any chance at getting back on stage is because of my drift, and my horizontal Up-B.
Things people forget about roy: -down smash breaks shield, f-smash can kill at 50% on ledge, sour-spot fair strings can lead to jab>up-b kills, neutral b is stupid good for no reason, side b almost always does 3-4 sweet spots therefore doing the most across the four marths, dair can gimp really well, he has throw combos, crazy air speed (fourth fastest in sm4sh, almost as fast as puff and yoshi), fast faller (vertical kos work later), and he does have good range and good frame data. Y’all, Roy was omega underrated in smash 4, and he got small global buffs in the new game. He’s got to be at least somewhat good.
The problem with Chrom outside of recovery is that his neutral, even with the balanced blade doesn't seem better than Roy's. Roy's aerials have been buffed to the point where he's can actually pressure shields and be safe. Roy's range/sweetspot being increased also don't help Chrom's claim much either.
Honestly a lot of people are justing Chrom for his weak recouvery but I don't really see that as that much of a hindrance given the Roy also has an awful recouvery. Given the fact that Chrom is so similar to Roy I really can't imagine him being all that worse off than Roy especially when the lack of a sweet spot benefits Chrom's swordplay much better than Roy's strong base. Chrom's Up B is also really really strong as a spike. I've seen it kill at like 12% which would make M2K's theory craft and trading stocks much more realizable.
The problem with Ike's recovery is it can be easily countered, or worse mario can flood or cape him to death. Mean while Roy's up kills at 120ish and has decent horizontal range. But i agree it shouldnt be a huge difference until you get into top level play.
Roy's recovery is mediocre at worst. Doesnt cover too much distance but its at least versatile Chrom's up b is basically Ike's, with all the problems that entails. It's also hard to tell from the footage ive seen, but it also looks like his vertical distance is worse than Ike. Chrom is pretty much going to be Little Marth
The only reason I think Chrom is not better than Roy is because of his recovery, especially since recovering as whole is more difficult than smash 4 but we’ll see when the game comes out .
Roy will probably end up being the better character exclusively because of the actually usable recovery. It was so stupid that they decided to give him Aether with no horizontal recovery. I mean he at least has no hilt gimmick holding him back but the awful recovery is what kills this character.
It depends. If his frame data and stats are slightly different it could be balanced out. Doesn’t seem like it so far, but something like floatier and higher jumps could help him out.
Not to argue but they made the sweetspot bigger on roys sword, and the tip of his sword (although minimal) does actually have some use such as scoring a jab lock and setting up kill confirms/mixups.
Let's no forget that his Up B also spikes at 0 so you still have to be careful when you try to edge guard him And he can even spike you AND still grab the ledge just like Ike in Smash 4 but it's way easier to perform
So Chrom is my main. This was my choice from when he was announced. He was the only Fire Emblem character I ever wanted (since 2014) so I can’t wait to body a Falcon.
I've been saying this the whole time but no one believes me lol. Chrom is Roy without having to space his blade, and unlike Marth, Roy is a rush down so this is a huge advantage. His recovery will balance that out but I'm still saying Chrom > Roy.
M2K, short hops are not 85% of knockback. It's 85% of damage, but knockback will be the same (okay maybe they'll kill 1-2% later because knockback will be calculated at a slightly lower percent)
dunno. maybe roys weak tip can actually help him combo better into other moves since his tipper has pretty weak knockback. plus his insane killing potential at the sweetspot is something to keep in mind. I can see people using both depending on the match up. say if range is a factor you may want to use chrom, but if not then roy would be the better option.
Well Zero and Nairo think that Roy is way better, and I agree. He's faster, has at least a decent recovery, and the engine actually benefits his unique swordplay.
I also made this video before the Roy player won the Japan invitational, and the recency bias from him winning will obviously influence many people's current opinions, based on theorycraft alone.
@@TheRealMew2king Well I'm just surprised you replied to me. Well, yeah I can see where you might think that, but I also believe that it has to do with how well the Roy player showed Roy's movement. He was also playing against a pretty good top Japanese duck hunt so that's also pretty impressive. I do think that the matchup favored Roy though, so there's that. It doesn't matter to me though, Im maining both.
How do you feel about people like ZeRo and Dabuz putting as much as 40 characters between the 2 with Roy being considered superior? Could you see an argument for that or does it just sound outrageous? (Also ik you made this video before seeing footage of them but I’m just interested in hearing what you have to say)
I like the knockback angles of chrom's moves, from the gameplay I've seen. Alot of them look like they have the straight vertical knockback of Marths tipper Fair allowing for fun combos. My biggest gripe with marth in sm4sh is that his combos suck, even if you land tippers at low percents.
I personally believe that Chrom will at the very least be pretty good on stage. But if you can force him off stage, especially if you take his jump, he becomes extremely bad. I also believe Roy will be better, considering the engine and the way the game rewards more aggro play. Roy having a weak tipper isn't the biggest deal if he can get in really well. (Along with Roys Hilt being bigger now. That might not be true but if it is then it's a factor) Chroms recovery definitely hurts him a lot. Roy in smash 4 was actually able to go pretty deep off stage to edge guard, and be able to make it back. Chrom will not be able to go nearly as deep, along with his recovery being so exploitable and predictable. So yeah, that's what I think. Also Shulk looks mad good I'm so hyped
I never really understood why people said Chrom would be better Roy. Chrom lacks Roys big flaw but also his biggest strengths too, and all of this was before we even had footage of either
@@creeeamy7133 Did you see how his fair auto cancelled though? it was glorious. and a more usable dancing blade is a nice change. but yeah roy should be better than chrom, his up b gets a lot more kills and doesnt get gimped as often as one might think.
Since I work at Best Buy, I got an early copy of Smash Ultimate. I can tell you that Chrom can short hop into fair and then Nair and then fair again and up b and forward smash and Nair and fair and pair and double dare and then double dare fair, making the match unfair. In the end, Sakurai is gonna keep Chrom the same and nerf Greninja. lawls!
I think Chrom is better personally because his consistent sword is better than Roy with the reverse tipper. Yes Roy got a better recovery though both have pretty awful recoveries anyway.
I have seen Abadango's tier list on ultimate, why does he put Ridley in the high tiers and many other people say Ridley is trash, like Samus and Dark Samus (once again). Really want to listen to your opinion, because I am actually really discouraged by all the "negative feedback" this loving charakter recieved.
roy is still better in my book because of his recovery primarily, and also because roys combos deal more damage than chroms due to having sweetspots while chrom has none. the way ultimate handles offstage in general is very crippling for chrom, and he may just be the easiest character to edgeguard
Nah if you compare Lucina and marth, lucina usually does more damage due to marth mains not always getting the tipper. same here roy mains cant get the sweetspot everytime so Chrom will probably do more damage. But yeah plus Roy's up b kills pretty early so chrom not having that hurts.
I think Roy edges it out. Id say Chrom is better in alot of cases, but his recovery is looking terrible. His only recovery move is super linear and is probably easy to intercept, like Ikes up B in 4 (even then, Chrom Aether seems less safe since he rises with his sword rather than throwing his sword up first like Ike does). Really depends on how/if Chrom can play around that.
Without a side b mix up having that recovery, I don't see how he will be viable. He will get knocked offstage and die almost every time. If he misses an edgegaurd he dies. He doesn't have a great landing option either. Overall I agree with Zero, I think he is just bad because of the up b. If he had Marths up b he would be amazing, but giving him Ikes just killed him.
Broom well you can put them in a few categories just by looking at them and those categories are: Trash, ok, Good, Op. you can tell when a character is around one of these categories.
Finalhour10 : I mean Cloud and Ryu have a bad recovery but they are top tiers. Most of the time what determines a top tier character is their onstage game, not their recovery. As long as it is not Little MAC, then all cards are on the table
As a peach main, I wish we can see some peach gameplay. But due to daisy doing well it should mean peach will be good too. (To be fair daisy and peach most likely play the same with different attributes like pit/dark pit) and we see daisy more cause she’s new
@@qwertz143 yeah I heard that too but the smash wiki doesn't specify if she's faster since peach also got a speed boost in general. Nevertheless, both princesses will be good fighters
@@Rat_the_Renegade chrome has no recovery options. no stalling, no horizontal, and nothing other than airdodging. he isnt coming back against a decent player. even bad players could edgegaurd him. thats my point.
isabelle is probably one of the better edgeguard characters, but the tree house member also wasted the jump alot i feel like it's going to be similar to melee marth where you will have to learn how to use your jump very well to return to stage unlike pika or bayo who can return without having to use brain power
Isnt it neat to know that Robin still has chrom in their final smash and theres still. Chrom mii costume meaning Sakurai doesnt give a crap about a character being in more than one place. Short story is Isaac and Springman for DLC
@@alphajnitro0072 No but, like with the Mii Costumes later becoming a fighter, there's a first for everything. Little Mac was an assist trophy that became playable next iteration but removing the assist trophy, in this case, would mess with spirits mode. They can just give the assist trophy a unique color palette or darker shade if a player chose them (like what happens to players if they choose the same color). Problem solved. People can continue to dream. It could even make for a surprising fighter reveal because it would break a 'rule' the SMASH community made.
@@ramonM64 Yeah its something the could do. But is that something that the would do? If so what character would they deem worthy of having them be an assist trophy and a fighter at the same time? Also if that fighter was worthy for them to do that why weren't they a fighter to begin with? It just doesn't make all that much sense to me especially because most of the assists trophies that have had a lot of fan outcry for have been assist trophies for multiple iterations.
@@alphajnitro0072 I'd rather not go into that. Personally, I'm okay with the current fighting roster. I was okay at MegaMan and especially okay after Bowser Jr.'s addition. It just bugs me when people shoot down dreams or hopes. That's the implication I thought of from your first statement. I simply wanted to reinstate that anything is possible.
@@ramonM64 You can still hope and dream. It's not necessarily being shot down as anything is possible. But it's not wrong to ask questions in attempt to gauge likelihood. Richter's inclusion is one that would have been considered unlikely cuz at the time there were no 3rd party echo fighters.
I mean if their moves dont have the same frames someone like M2k will take them seriously as individuals because high level players will be able to do things with those differences no matter how small they may be to other people. Doesnt mean you have to take them seriously though
Btw I already realize that people are going to say Roy is better, since a Roy player just won the Japan tourney. And it's indeed VERY possible that Roy will be better (esp due to the recovery difference, which can be significant). I also made this video many days before we even saw footage of Roy, we're just releasing videos in a certain time, slightly later than originally expected, based on currently known information. A lot of the purpose of this specific video is some theorycraft ideas on things Chrom could potentially do (must be labbed to be sure it works of course) to make him more viable (see usage of Fair total time frame advantage, frame traps, and the benefits of this instant KO upB. Worth experimenting at the very least, imo).
Mew2King I would pin this comment
@Adam Thompson that just means Roy's will kill even earlier lol
yeah but chrom can do it much safer
@@seraphim3599
I want to agree with you, but unfortunately the way DED works now, it's a bit easier to DI away from Roy so that he only really gets the tip of the sword pm the finisher. Quite unfortunate indeed.
please make a vid on differences between echos and their original characters
I appreciate you taking a serious look at Chrom, as opposed to other people who are just completely dismissing him and calling him one of the worst in the game
Yeah i was one of those people, but this video made me take some more time to think about him. It's still too early to tell, but it's cool to know that everyone in Ultimate has SOMETHING going for them :)
While people have been calling Chrom bad, they never called him the worst of the game. The one people are calling the worst is Bowser Jr., he was so heavily nerfed.
LuizFelipe Porto poor Bowser Jr am I right? Here's my boi Robin getting levin sword Nair, better speed, cloud level dash and improved moves with only a couple of nerfs and then Bowser Jr pretty much nerfed across the board with buffs on his weak moves
I didn’t mean literally the worst in the game, but yeah I see your point
Polymath Sorry, I misunderstood. But man, Bowser Jr. is terrible in Ultimate and the other character is competing with Bowser Jr for the spot of worst character in the game is Ridley from what I’ve heard. And the reason Ridley is considered so bad is very ironic. I’m sure you can guess why.
We love you Mew2King
Chrom is one of the characters I'm most excited for in Smash Ultimate. He's one of my favourite Fire Emblem characters (and my husband) and Roy is one of the funnest characters in Smash 4 whose combo game will _absolutely_ get even better with the new dash mechanics, being able to dash up jab to start a combo, and have the new options of comboing it into another jab or even an fsmash at more distances than just foxtrot distance. Or fthrow someone and if they DI up they get comboed hard and if they DI down it brings them to a tech chase situation and now the options that you could only punish with something like double edge dance you can now punish with fsmash and kill super early.
I've actually been thinking about potential combos into Aether for a while now, ever since I first saw it kill at _actually_ 0%. Chrom and Roy are versatile combo characters, I'm sure we'll figure something out.
Husbando*
Nate3417 u gay
Oh yeah, I forgot about Chrom. I only dream about Piranha Plant these days.
i thought i was the only one dreaming lewdly about piranha plant
Already one of my favorite people for Smash Ultimate insight
I sure hope Chrom can Fair and dare to Nair his up air.
BlackRaveBow that sentence made my brain explode
I'm really enjoying these videos, they are so well edited and I love m2k's insight. I'm looking forward to seeing more content like this for ultimate!
I might main Chrom he looks really cool.
Big Gay 2 same. For ultimate I’m looking for a swordsman as I usually don’t play with them and a heavy since Charizard is now Pokemon trainer. I’m just worried about Chrom’s recovery
Just play Roy he kills earlier and better recovery.
@@thejewishman5777 or just let them enjoy chrom.
Celtic Wind I am, I don’t care if they gimped off stage at like 20%.
Odyssey Chrom can spike you at 0 if you're not careful off stage
Since we just got a bunch of Roy gameplay, maybe do Roy next?
Liezuli I think these are recorded in advance
Chroms biggest advantage could be fair strings over Roy however Roy's Hilter range has been increased in Ultimate, which could make Chrom highly redundant. Also Roy's sourspots are actually a huge part of his combo game, Chrom's combos looks to be entirely different. The Roy discord was worried Chrom would be Roy but better but it looks like Chrom will have a entirely different playstyle so unlike other echos you wont be picking Chrom is Roy isnt working.
Did they actually increase Roy's hilt range? So now his sweetspot is even bigger? I already thought it was pretty generous in Sm4sh, but alright, easier sweetspots are welcome.
Roy's fair strings are actually better because roy can take them offstage. Also roy has better fair and up air conversions
@@ChunkyDogWater Oh yeah, if Chrom double Fairs his opponent off stage he dies. LOL!
well....he might be able to air dodge back, but he still can't go as far off stage as Roy can.
I mean chrom can get back if the enemy can't retaliate and he isn't too far out I mean people are talking like roy has a good recovery but he doesn't it's ok at best
@@Shikidiky Yeah, but sometimes I actually go pretty far off stage to combo people, and the only reason I have any chance at getting back on stage is because of my drift, and my horizontal Up-B.
I’ve lowekey been interested in trying out Chrom.
Since I plan on playing Chrom as my main, this video was really helpful, thanks
Things people forget about roy: -down smash breaks shield, f-smash can kill at 50% on ledge, sour-spot fair strings can lead to jab>up-b kills, neutral b is stupid good for no reason, side b almost always does 3-4 sweet spots therefore doing the most across the four marths, dair can gimp really well, he has throw combos, crazy air speed (fourth fastest in sm4sh, almost as fast as puff and yoshi), fast faller (vertical kos work later), and he does have good range and good frame data. Y’all, Roy was omega underrated in smash 4, and he got small global buffs in the new game. He’s got to be at least somewhat good.
commenting during ad to support channel
The problem with Chrom outside of recovery is that his neutral, even with the balanced blade doesn't seem better than Roy's.
Roy's aerials have been buffed to the point where he's can actually pressure shields and be safe. Roy's range/sweetspot being increased also don't help Chrom's claim much either.
Chroms recovery and neutral game is better than Roy's
Honestly a lot of people are justing Chrom for his weak recouvery but I don't really see that as that much of a hindrance given the Roy also has an awful recouvery. Given the fact that Chrom is so similar to Roy I really can't imagine him being all that worse off than Roy especially when the lack of a sweet spot benefits Chrom's swordplay much better than Roy's strong base.
Chrom's Up B is also really really strong as a spike. I've seen it kill at like 12% which would make M2K's theory craft and trading stocks much more realizable.
At least Roy can recover horizontally. If Chrom were to be too far off stage he's screwed.
@@Maxx599 True but the same is true for Roy if he's too far below the screen.
The problem with Ike's recovery is it can be easily countered, or worse mario can flood or cape him to death. Mean while Roy's up kills at 120ish and has decent horizontal range. But i agree it shouldnt be a huge difference until you get into top level play.
Roy’s recovery is actually decent because of its versatility. It’s also a great tool for its combo game.
Roy's recovery is mediocre at worst. Doesnt cover too much distance but its at least versatile
Chrom's up b is basically Ike's, with all the problems that entails. It's also hard to tell from the footage ive seen, but it also looks like his vertical distance is worse than Ike.
Chrom is pretty much going to be Little Marth
The only reason I think Chrom is not better than Roy is because of his recovery, especially since recovering as whole is more difficult than smash 4 but we’ll see when the game comes out .
Roy is also much faster though, and that's really good for movement and pressure in ultimate, especially since Roy and Chrom's jab is so good.
I wouldn't say much faster
@@Shikidiky Yeah, I just watched some chrom gameplay and I would agree its not that much faster, but still faster.
Roy is not faster, fake news
Both of them will be getting gimped regardless since Roy's recovery was already super exploitable
Loving the m2k content
make Bowser Jr next 😂
Gameplay wise he is the fighter I’m the most exited for
i love this series by M2K
I was going to try and make Chrom my secondary when Ultimate comes out, but his recovery is going to be the bane of my existence
Hey M2K, just saying that the .85 multiplier only effects damage, not KB. So what you said around 2:30 isn't really accurate.
any idea what the song playing in the background is?
I am not sure but I believe it's the menu song of Fe awakening
qwertz143- ID Beginnings from Fire Emblem Awakening
Anyone know the music used in this Vid?
Lionel10102006- ID Beginnings from Fire Emblem: Awakening
Something I would like to see is if his neutral b spikes, a chargeable spike could creates some clip worthy moments
Roy will probably end up being the better character exclusively because of the actually usable recovery. It was so stupid that they decided to give him Aether with no horizontal recovery. I mean he at least has no hilt gimmick holding him back but the awful recovery is what kills this character.
It depends. If his frame data and stats are slightly different it could be balanced out. Doesn’t seem like it so far, but something like floatier and higher jumps could help him out.
@@MerryBlind Don't forget that directional air dodges are a thing.
Roy already had an exploitable recovery anyway
Spazz Maticus Good point. Though all characters have it so it doesn’t change much.
Not to argue but they made the sweetspot bigger on roys sword, and the tip of his sword (although minimal) does actually have some use such as scoring a jab lock and setting up kill confirms/mixups.
So...are we NOT gonna talk about the cute wave at the end?!?
Let's no forget that his Up B also spikes at 0 so you still have to be careful when you try to edge guard him
And he can even spike you AND still grab the ledge just like Ike in Smash 4 but it's way easier to perform
I'd be interested to see what you think of tha Robins when you have the time please :)
So Chrom is my main.
This was my choice from when he was announced. He was the only Fire Emblem character I ever wanted (since 2014) so I can’t wait to body a Falcon.
There is a " 's " missing in the description after " Roy ".
I've been saying this the whole time but no one believes me lol. Chrom is Roy without having to space his blade, and unlike Marth, Roy is a rush down so this is a huge advantage. His recovery will balance that out but I'm still saying Chrom > Roy.
Roy has a tipper mechanic now? 4:21
He had a base tho
Really digging these theorycraft videos :).
Wait so chrom has tippers?
M2K, short hops are not 85% of knockback. It's 85% of damage, but knockback will be the same (okay maybe they'll kill 1-2% later because knockback will be calculated at a slightly lower percent)
Chrom is probably going to have a balanced sword like Lucina. I think that will really determine what whether he's better than Roy or not.
What's the music in the background?
It's the character creation theme from Fire Emblem Awakening.
Id - Beginnings (FE Awakening)
Thanks, guys.
I'm skeptically optimistic about Chrom.
dunno. maybe roys weak tip can actually help him combo better into other moves since his tipper has pretty weak knockback. plus his insane killing potential at the sweetspot is something to keep in mind. I can see people using both depending on the match up. say if range is a factor you may want to use chrom, but if not then roy would be the better option.
Chrom should move horizontally during the end of aether
Well Zero and Nairo think that Roy is way better, and I agree. He's faster, has at least a decent recovery, and the engine actually benefits his unique swordplay.
I also made this video before the Roy player won the Japan invitational, and the recency bias from him winning will obviously influence many people's current opinions, based on theorycraft alone.
Don't Roy and Chrom share frame data?
@@Liezuli Roy is faster on the ground, but yes their frame data is the same.
@@TheRealMew2king Well I'm just surprised you replied to me. Well, yeah I can see where you might think that, but I also believe that it has to do with how well the Roy player showed Roy's movement. He was also playing against a pretty good top Japanese duck hunt so that's also pretty impressive. I do think that the matchup favored Roy though, so there's that. It doesn't matter to me though, Im maining both.
@@malmasterson3890 Is Roy's run speed actually faster than Chrom? I thought they would be the same since he's an echo.
"Anything can change!"
First
Can you try to make Pichu next
He already has a video up for Ken, mate
LilyWight oh, forgot
you want a trophy or something?
@@edsantoss nah a spirit
Possibly Roy next?
I've forgotten Chrom was in this game 4 times already.
Why TF would they give Chrom better frame data than Roy I don't understand
CAN YOU DO FALCO NEXT!?!?!
How do you feel about people like ZeRo and Dabuz putting as much as 40 characters between the 2 with Roy being considered superior? Could you see an argument for that or does it just sound outrageous? (Also ik you made this video before seeing footage of them but I’m just interested in hearing what you have to say)
I like the knockback angles of chrom's moves, from the gameplay I've seen. Alot of them look like they have the straight vertical knockback of Marths tipper Fair allowing for fun combos. My biggest gripe with marth in sm4sh is that his combos suck, even if you land tippers at low percents.
I personally believe that Chrom will at the very least be pretty good on stage.
But if you can force him off stage, especially if you take his jump, he becomes extremely bad.
I also believe Roy will be better, considering the engine and the way the game rewards more aggro play.
Roy having a weak tipper isn't the biggest deal if he can get in really well. (Along with Roys Hilt being bigger now. That might not be true but if it is then it's a factor)
Chroms recovery definitely hurts him a lot. Roy in smash 4 was actually able to go pretty deep off stage to edge guard, and be able to make it back.
Chrom will not be able to go nearly as deep, along with his recovery being so exploitable and predictable.
So yeah, that's what I think.
Also Shulk looks mad good I'm so hyped
"could determine who is better between Marth and Roy" Freudian slip?
Character breakdown...Ike Roy. Your welcome.
First time I hear about short-hop air attacks being weaker... interesting...
I never really understood why people said Chrom would be better Roy. Chrom lacks Roys big flaw but also his biggest strengths too, and all of this was before we even had footage of either
Look up Roy vs Richer they just had a tournament in japan which showed lots of roy gameplay since he made it to finals.
@@celticwind4122 Yeah I already saw that, I was scouring the internet for any Roy footage right after the tournament
@@creeeamy7133 Did you see how his fair auto cancelled though? it was glorious. and a more usable dancing blade is a nice change. but yeah roy should be better than chrom, his up b gets a lot more kills and doesnt get gimped as often as one might think.
2:32 Wait what? Does this apply to everyone, and if so, has this always been a thing? Lol
Should've ended the video at 0:20 all we needed to know lol.
I haven't seen m2k in a while, but damn that glorious hair is gone
Hey Mew2King, is Chrom's sword slightly longer than Roy's, or is it just me?
Hey everyone, please try to bump this so he might see it, if y'all don't mind.
You know, I was going to reply, but then you asked to be bumped. So I guess I'm not doing that now.
I'm glad he's in the game but his neutral B is kinda boring.
stormRed1236 I guess you could see it as being a reference to Melee Marth’s neutral-B.
do captain falcon next
Since I work at Best Buy, I got an early copy of Smash Ultimate.
I can tell you that Chrom can short hop into fair and then Nair and then fair again and up b and forward smash and Nair and fair and pair and double dare and then double dare fair, making the match unfair.
In the end, Sakurai is gonna keep Chrom the same and nerf Greninja. lawls!
They seriously need to rework him
I think Chrom is better personally because his consistent sword is better than Roy with the reverse tipper. Yes Roy got a better recovery though both have pretty awful recoveries anyway.
Is it possible to fangirl without being a girl?
I just wish his sword was bigger.
I have seen Abadango's tier list on ultimate, why does he put Ridley in the high tiers and many other people say Ridley is trash, like Samus and Dark Samus (once again). Really want to listen to your opinion, because I am actually really discouraged by all the "negative feedback" this loving charakter recieved.
Wario Analysis PLEASE
roy is still better in my book because of his recovery primarily, and also because roys combos deal more damage than chroms due to having sweetspots while chrom has none. the way ultimate handles offstage in general is very crippling for chrom, and he may just be the easiest character to edgeguard
Nah if you compare Lucina and marth, lucina usually does more damage due to marth mains not always getting the tipper. same here roy mains cant get the sweetspot everytime so Chrom will probably do more damage. But yeah plus Roy's up b kills pretty early so chrom not having that hurts.
But having a tipper is WAYYYYYYYYYY better than what roy has
I think Roy edges it out. Id say Chrom is better in alot of cases, but his recovery is looking terrible. His only recovery move is super linear and is probably easy to intercept, like Ikes up B in 4 (even then, Chrom Aether seems less safe since he rises with his sword rather than throwing his sword up first like Ike does). Really depends on how/if Chrom can play around that.
Chrom is the best character
Theory2king
Without a side b mix up having that recovery, I don't see how he will be viable. He will get knocked offstage and die almost every time. If he misses an edgegaurd he dies. He doesn't have a great landing option either. Overall I agree with Zero, I think he is just bad because of the up b. If he had Marths up b he would be amazing, but giving him Ikes just killed him.
Meanwhile marth and lucina lost jab to fair/ftilt/fsmash. Goodbye kill combo. At least we still have lots more and new ones
I sub b.c m2k is here
CHROM IS UNDERRATED. ROY WILL NOT BE BETTER
He’s ok. I’d put him right on Mid-low end of C tier. His recovery is holding him back way too much
I feel like if he had a good recovery or even ok he would be near the top end of high tier feelsbadman
backflash2212 exactly. Dark samus lookin pretty fine though. It could be mid-high B tier.
Tier lists are comparative. You can't place somebody in a tier that doesn't exist yet just by looking at their moveset alone.
Broom well you can put them in a few categories just by looking at them and those categories are: Trash, ok, Good, Op. you can tell when a character is around one of these categories.
Finalhour10 : I mean Cloud and Ryu have a bad recovery but they are top tiers.
Most of the time what determines a top tier character is their onstage game, not their recovery. As long as it is not Little MAC, then all cards are on the table
Try daisy, she looks surprisingly good. Since her character did well in the Spanish invitational.
Man, I just wanna see some Peach gameplay, but everyone and their grandmother are only picking Daisy
As a peach main, I wish we can see some peach gameplay. But due to daisy doing well it should mean peach will be good too. (To be fair daisy and peach most likely play the same with different attributes like pit/dark pit) and we see daisy more cause she’s new
Yoshixandir I heard daisy is faster but with less damage than peach but I need to see some gameplay to confirm that
@@qwertz143 yeah I heard that too but the smash wiki doesn't specify if she's faster since peach also got a speed boost in general. Nevertheless, both princesses will be good fighters
It's funny how you think Chrom will be a better Roy, while Zero thinks Roy is top tier and Chrom is bottom tier.
jab to grab hopefully
Jab to grab should be guaranteed at early percentages, especially for Chrom
even at mid level play this character dies offstage too easily.
we saw the treehouse players edgegaurd him with Isabelle.
Yeah but they also aren't great so they aren't going to be very good with Chrom. High level Chrom play will be far different from the tree members.
@@Rat_the_Renegade chrome has no recovery options. no stalling, no horizontal, and nothing other than airdodging. he isnt coming back against a decent player. even bad players could edgegaurd him. thats my point.
ubadman1 That man kept wasting his jump and once didn't used his second jump
isabelle is probably one of the better edgeguard characters, but the tree house member also wasted the jump alot i feel like it's going to be similar to melee marth where you will have to learn how to use your jump very well to return to stage unlike pika or bayo who can return without having to use brain power
Isnt it neat to know that Robin still has chrom in their final smash and theres still. Chrom mii costume meaning Sakurai doesnt give a crap about a character being in more than one place. Short story is Isaac and Springman for DLC
Is there an assist that's also a character?
@@alphajnitro0072 No but, like with the Mii Costumes later becoming a fighter, there's a first for everything. Little Mac was an assist trophy that became playable next iteration but removing the assist trophy, in this case, would mess with spirits mode. They can just give the assist trophy a unique color palette or darker shade if a player chose them (like what happens to players if they choose the same color).
Problem solved. People can continue to dream. It could even make for a surprising fighter reveal because it would break a 'rule' the SMASH community made.
@@ramonM64
Yeah its something the could do. But is that something that the would do? If so what character would they deem worthy of having them be an assist trophy and a fighter at the same time? Also if that fighter was worthy for them to do that why weren't they a fighter to begin with?
It just doesn't make all that much sense to me especially because most of the assists trophies that have had a lot of fan outcry for have been assist trophies for multiple iterations.
@@alphajnitro0072 I'd rather not go into that. Personally, I'm okay with the current fighting roster. I was okay at MegaMan and especially okay after Bowser Jr.'s addition.
It just bugs me when people shoot down dreams or hopes. That's the implication I thought of from your first statement. I simply wanted to reinstate that anything is possible.
@@ramonM64
You can still hope and dream. It's not necessarily being shot down as anything is possible.
But it's not wrong to ask questions in attempt to gauge likelihood. Richter's inclusion is one that would have been considered unlikely cuz at the time there were no 3rd party echo fighters.
nah dude wrong, not a better version of roy lol
Nah, Roy will be better
I hope chroms aren’t comboing fair to up b offstage
like he said in the video it would be worth it in the situations where you are ahead a stock and have a high % so you get even farther ahead
backflash2212 yea I’d hate to get hit by that lol
I've done that kind of stuff with Ike and cloud in smash4 it feels so good
backflash2212 when we inevitably meet online in ultimate and I’m playing Roy or marth, don’t do that
@@atticade if I get that stock advantage I will do what I must to get these wins
What's with the creepy music?
Chroms recovery is trash
nah still better than roy's
Smashachu I’ve never used Roy I’ll give him a shot
You seem very uneasy in this video. Something bothering you my dude?
These FE swordsmen clones are way to identical. =/ Why are they taken seriously as individual characters?
Edit: Not including Ike.
I mean if their moves dont have the same frames someone like M2k will take them seriously as individuals because high level players will be able to do things with those differences no matter how small they may be to other people. Doesnt mean you have to take them seriously though
I mean Zero beat Ally with Lucina. Should we not take Lucina seriously despite beating one of the worlds best players?
Koy Foster Because some changes completely changes the playstyle for each character
Theorycraft is not a real term goddamnit. It just means theory so you're just adding a useless word on the end
another crap clon tbh ...
T. S. Alekk He'll have a better neutral then Roy though
imagine having shadow instead of this random sword fighter...
You Nintendo fanboys are lucky. You get this and now Fortnite and Brawlhalla