These videos are great, but if you want more in depth analyses on new and old charachters (frame data and damage values) i would recommend Pushblockgaming! They present it in an easy to understand manner and with some jokes along with the data. They just did a K.Rool analasys! th-cam.com/video/v_1ufCAcX_k/w-d-xo.html
A man of class is see, i mained robin and ike because i wanted chrom in the game but now that he's in the game it'll still take me awhile to get as good as i am with robin
The weaker sourspot and stronger sweetspot sounds like a good buff since it will create more potential combos and allow strings at later percent as well as kill earlier with tips. I disagree with ZeRo on Lucina being better than Marth. Her consistency can be useful, especially for people who don't main Marth, but getting consistent tips isn't unrealistic with practice. Conversely, the dair spike being easier(maybe) sounds like a nice buff since it may allow the Marth to spike from angles that weren't possible before. That and the fact that it will be easier. The side-b nerf is pretty bad. It removes the chance to mix-up to either escape if it is blocked or set up for tipper kill set-ups. That's my thoughts on Marth's changes. Feel free to tell me your thoughts and hopefully your reasoning as well.
SilverRain Lucina will have less combo potential. I recently played them both. You're right about Marth. Sour spot fair combos up to 3 times and you can finish with a tipper 4th fair. Lucina, however, doesn't sour spot so the only combos she will have will be at zero percent. The Marth combo I did (sour fair x3 + tipper fair x1) worked at multiple percents including mid percents (40-70) and killed near ledge. Thus, I believe a skilled Marth will beat a skilled Lucina and that Marth will overall be the better character once the meta forms.
Not really a marth main (I play shulk) but I do like playing Marth and it’s kinda wack how he cant combo his jab to foward tilt or side B anymore. I do like how they made the whole sour spot weaker and tipper stronger though. More combos is always a plus for me lol.
Christian O'Connell That is true. I guess it depends on the context of which games physics and quirks we're talking about which at that point is moot since the characters are more defined by that anyways.
Thanks M2K You mentioned Marth's dunk being more consistent. Is this something people might rely on again à la Melee or is it just a marginally improved option?
The knockback change is intriguing! His knockback range has been extended on both sides since non-tipper KB is reduced while tipper KB is increased. What this means is that spacing is more important than it's ever been with Marth. So if you are MK Leo or Mr. E, you probably LOVE this change. Otherwise, if you wanna play Marth, it's time to get godly at spacing. To add on further, I wonder if intentional sourspots at some percent ranges can open the opponent up to juggles or some short strings that weren't possible in Smash 4. Hmmm...
Thank you! This is almost everything I wanted to know about Marth's changes and super concisely. I assume my pipe dream of short hope double fair from brawl isn't back, is it?
I just think Lucina is gonna be better then Marth in Ult. While she was okay In 4, in Ultimate it encourages aggressive gameplay to which while marth whith his tip and such can help as Zero says its not as reliable, it may be great when landed but it womt always land. Where as Lucina will always do the same jo matter where she hits. Which I think will help more with the aggressive gameplay as she will be doing more damage over all throughout the battle
Delta kai09 Lucina will have less combo potential. I recently played them both. You're right about Marth. Sour spot fair combos up to 3 times and you can finish with a tipper 4th fair. Lucina, however, doesn't sour spot so the only combos she will have will be at zero percent. The Marth combo I did (sour fair x3 + tipper fair x1) worked at multiple percents including mid percents (40-70) and killed near ledge. Thus, I believe a skilled Marth will beat a skilled Lucina and that Marth will overall be the better character once the meta forms.
@@ThePiddlePopper Except if the Lucina is fast, Marth is gonna have a hard time getting those tippers Not to mention Lucina isn't lacking in kill power either
Shadix SSB Yeah no more spin cancel. You will have to rely on your overall speed and constant shield pressure and gimping. Also f smash breaks after a couple jabs. Good luck man!
There's actually a nerf that no one talks about: now Marth and Lucina cannot use full hop-forward aerial on ground opponents! Why nobody talks about it???
When it comes to his Dair spike, I wouldn't be surprised if it was expanded a bit frame-data wise. A single frame hitbox is fine when it's the first active frame (Knee, rest, Luigi Shoryu), but in the middle is pretty inconvenient.
tough statement to make. zero never reached the peaks leo has with his lucina against leo's or other marth mains marth. results alone, marth has succeeded more than lucina
M2K if you're willing to read this: aminoapps.com/p/w9ts5a I think that stage morph could be a better format for competetive than the standard pick/ban we've been using. The biggest argument I've received against it is "Backroom won't agree" but they can't even tell me why that is. If you could look at this, would you tell me why top players/ TOs may be against this concept?
I think that Marth is a contender for best character in the game. With the new mechanics you can't run past people which means that Marth is going to be a monster in the corner.
M2k your character analysis vids are by far the best I've seen from anyone
His and Zero's vids are tiding me over before Ultimate comes out lol
@@joshaltfo6074 ya but zero's are a little sloppier IMO.
The only thing missing is ZeRo meming
These videos are great, but if you want more in depth analyses on new and old charachters (frame data and damage values) i would recommend Pushblockgaming! They present it in an easy to understand manner and with some jokes along with the data.
They just did a K.Rool analasys!
th-cam.com/video/v_1ufCAcX_k/w-d-xo.html
@@Denizu Couldn't agree more.
Awesome, I would be interested to see some more impressions on the boi Robin, apparently he has had some nerfs however wayyyyy more buffs
A man of class is see, i mained robin and ike because i wanted chrom in the game but now that he's in the game it'll still take me awhile to get as good as i am with robin
5:32 First time I see a final smash hitting the Smash ball...
Really loving this type of content. I hope to see much more in the future! :)
If possible, could you set up a playlist with all the competitive character breakdowns sometime? That'd be really nice.
Lelouch Vi Britannia you can do that
@@ColdRamenTPM him setting it up would let other people see it, plus it would be updated faster, and be more convenient to access.
Falco, now that he has a better dair. There are a decent amount of videos floating around. Would love to hear your opinion
i just want to approach with short hop dairs all day lmao
@@josephhaddad7169 I know! I missed that so much lol
The weaker sourspot and stronger sweetspot sounds like a good buff since it will create more potential combos and allow strings at later percent as well as kill earlier with tips.
I disagree with ZeRo on Lucina being better than Marth. Her consistency can be useful, especially for people who don't main Marth, but getting consistent tips isn't unrealistic with practice.
Conversely, the dair spike being easier(maybe) sounds like a nice buff since it may allow the Marth to spike from angles that weren't possible before. That and the fact that it will be easier.
The side-b nerf is pretty bad. It removes the chance to mix-up to either escape if it is blocked or set up for tipper kill set-ups.
That's my thoughts on Marth's changes. Feel free to tell me your thoughts and hopefully your reasoning as well.
SilverRain
Lucina will have less combo potential. I recently played them both. You're right about Marth. Sour spot fair combos up to 3 times and you can finish with a tipper 4th fair. Lucina, however, doesn't sour spot so the only combos she will have will be at zero percent. The Marth combo I did (sour fair x3 + tipper fair x1) worked at multiple percents including mid percents (40-70) and killed near ledge. Thus, I believe a skilled Marth will beat a skilled Lucina and that Marth will overall be the better character once the meta forms.
Not really a marth main (I play shulk) but I do like playing Marth and it’s kinda wack how he cant combo his jab to foward tilt or side B anymore. I do like how they made the whole sour spot weaker and tipper stronger though. More combos is always a plus for me lol.
@@blank3457 Yeah, that's my general impression about Ultimate Marth, too
I agree also, there are actual results using Marth in tournaments that shows he can be consistent.
I dont get the lucina logic at all. Feels like you want to space for tips anyway so why not get rewarded for it
Really enjoying your analysis vids m2k, can’t wait to see what you do with ultimate
I'm going to be very comfortable right out the gate with Lucina since not much has changed. Happy with it all so far.
Everybody loves Jason
Would love to see a video on Robin
Thanks for doing these
“Pikachu is better than he’s ever been”
Have you forgotten about 64 pikachu?
He's faster in this one. Ultimate Pikachu would probably beat 64 Pikachu if they could fight each other
@@ancientminister obviously, I mean theres no side B's in 64
Ancient Minister 64 characters would beat any smash games cast free. Do you not realize how many 0-death combos exist in that game?
That pika gave me nightmares
Christian O'Connell That is true. I guess it depends on the context of which games physics and quirks we're talking about which at that point is moot since the characters are more defined by that anyways.
*Thank you M2K, very cool*
Rip red hair Lucina :,( such a unneeded nerf
Bradley Kirsch rip cordelia skin.
They took away the Cordelia skin, because even as a skin, Cordelia just can't get close to Chrom.
Dang that's cruel 😂
Granetdud alright you win...
They got rid of a lot of alts that overtly reference other characters
Love your content! Please make more
Do Pichu/Young Link next
Great video! Falco next!?!?!
I am very excited to be able to play Lucina again.
Can't wait to see what you've got to say when the game actually drops.
Thanks M2K
You mentioned Marth's dunk being more consistent. Is this something people might rely on again à la Melee or is it just a marginally improved option?
MistahGamah
Not as good as melee dunk but soooooo much better than smash 4.
@@ThePiddlePopper yeah, in Smash4 Marth's dair spike was one of the hardest to land.
Glad my two mains are good in ssbu
NightroBlaze same here. Although I would have liked Marth to maybe be in top tier
Marth cant be bad lol
@@mathiswagner8472 zero has him ranked like 5th or 6th overall. Don't worry man he's looking top tier for sure based on the gameplay.
@@mathiswagner8472
Marth will be fine. No worries.
No more jab to dancing blade or jab to ftilt? :(
The knockback change is intriguing! His knockback range has been extended on both sides since non-tipper KB is reduced while tipper KB is increased. What this means is that spacing is more important than it's ever been with Marth. So if you are MK Leo or Mr. E, you probably LOVE this change. Otherwise, if you wanna play Marth, it's time to get godly at spacing.
To add on further, I wonder if intentional sourspots at some percent ranges can open the opponent up to juggles or some short strings that weren't possible in Smash 4. Hmmm...
Thank you! This is almost everything I wanted to know about Marth's changes and super concisely.
I assume my pipe dream of short hope double fair from brawl isn't back, is it?
Please theory craft the similar echoes, ie daisy richter and dark samus, I need to know the technical differences
I just think Lucina is gonna be better then Marth in Ult. While she was okay In 4, in Ultimate it encourages aggressive gameplay to which while marth whith his tip and such can help as Zero says its not as reliable, it may be great when landed but it womt always land. Where as Lucina will always do the same jo matter where she hits. Which I think will help more with the aggressive gameplay as she will be doing more damage over all throughout the battle
Delta kai09
Lucina will have less combo potential. I recently played them both. You're right about Marth. Sour spot fair combos up to 3 times and you can finish with a tipper 4th fair. Lucina, however, doesn't sour spot so the only combos she will have will be at zero percent. The Marth combo I did (sour fair x3 + tipper fair x1) worked at multiple percents including mid percents (40-70) and killed near ledge. Thus, I believe a skilled Marth will beat a skilled Lucina and that Marth will overall be the better character once the meta forms.
@@ThePiddlePopper Unless the Lucina can rush down Marth and overwhelmed him
Lightning6475
Their both fast so the same can be made about Marth as well
@@ThePiddlePopper Except if the Lucina is fast, Marth is gonna have a hard time getting those tippers
Not to mention Lucina isn't lacking in kill power either
Lightning6475 That's the purpose behind creating setups that lead into tippers.
Wave-dashing viable? Looks better in the new footage running around
Sticking with my main. #Lucina
I like your content a lot :)
Anyone feels like the knockback smoke effects are too dense?
Could u make one for Falco?
I love you M2K
Agree with everything you said
Marf
I know ZeRo already did one on Roy, but i'd like to hear what you have to say about him anyways
But can Marth/Lucina still do the Jump Side B 1 Nair Jump Side B 1 combo?
Can we get an analysis on ike m2k?
in depth guide on Kirby plz?
never had a issue with tipper on smash 4. still played both tho lol. also finally a video on my boi. tho the worst nerf is english voice.
English voice isn't really a nerf when it's completely optional though.
No Wun Ive only heard it being changed by putting the entire game into japanese.
DEATHNINJA64 exactly my thoughts
@@takamaki4646 no you can now set voices to Japanese while having the rest of the game in English!
@@darylsdog9521 Was this confirmed?
Make more!
But...you definitely can change the timing of Dancing Blade. I did it.
Magma743 pretty sure I did too
@@ryanc3609 There's definitely footage out there too. I'm sure he was just mistaken, but I hope no one thinks he's right about it!
Can soft jab reset
so i heard at the start you said you tested on pro controller - is there a specific reason why you didn't use GC controller for testing?
not all da demo builds provide gamecube controllers
I wish he'd discuss Corrin.
When's snake
Why does M2K constantly rock back and forth? It's really funny to be honest
Can you do Sonic? He seems to rely more on dash dancing now and being more aggresive
Shadix SSB
Yeah no more spin cancel. You will have to rely on your overall speed and constant shield pressure and gimping. Also f smash breaks after a couple jabs. Good luck man!
@@ThePiddlePopper if anything, I'm more excited for Sonic then ever before
Yeah, you're gonna have to actually play neutral now.
yung muney i dont spam spinsheild but true
Wait how did he upload this when he's at summit 🤔
WIN SUMMIT AYAYA
I'm gonna miss his jab :(
Marth/Lucian my main
Do a Duck hunt video
There's actually a nerf that no one talks about: now Marth and Lucina cannot use full hop-forward aerial on ground opponents!
Why nobody talks about it???
If m2k were to get a hair cut, it would be impossible, he just wont sit still for a second
I don't care, till we get short hop double fair
Marth2King
I know you get a ton of requests but please make one about wario
0:00
When it comes to his Dair spike, I wouldn't be surprised if it was expanded a bit frame-data wise. A single frame hitbox is fine when it's the first active frame (Knee, rest, Luigi Shoryu), but in the middle is pretty inconvenient.
lucina has always been better than Marth. i’ve thought this before ZeRo posted Lucina vids.
tough statement to make. zero never reached the peaks leo has with his lucina against leo's or other marth mains marth. results alone, marth has succeeded more than lucina
M2K if you're willing to read this: aminoapps.com/p/w9ts5a I think that stage morph could be a better format for competetive than the standard pick/ban we've been using. The biggest argument I've received against it is "Backroom won't agree" but they can't even tell me why that is. If you could look at this, would you tell me why top players/ TOs may be against this concept?
Thee are a million times better than what Zero and even Esam are doing in terms of viability speculation.
Fox!!
Marth has better potential, Lucina is reliable.
Pikachu better than in 64? Omegalul
Did I hear some Pikachu hate already?
I think that Marth is a contender for best character in the game. With the new mechanics you can't run past people which means that Marth is going to be a monster in the corner.
Bad News for you Buddy, Brawl Meta Knight is back in Ultimate
I WIN TO FIGHT THE GAY!
Ugh u hate Lucina
Marth is my main tho
How dare you, Lucina is clearly superior.
Why is he moving back and forth so much this is weird.
Ancient Minister he has ADHD, be respectful
*_Marf_*
Marf
Marf