Goodman Hole In Heat Exchanger
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Goodman Hole In Heat Exchanger
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Maybe this helps with the mystery of the cracked heat exchanger. When I got my goodman furnace I was a new homeowner and got a new goodman furnace. The old one was not an efficiency furnace and had broke down. Every couple years after that I would have to replace my inducer motor because the bearing would overheat. I had the same tech come out every 2 or 3 years for the replacement. After the third one, the furnace stopped operating a year later. I was actually experiencing these really bad headaches for a few weeks when the heating season started. The furnace quit one day and I had to call a different company to come and take a look because the old tech had passed away. The new tech said my heat exchanger was cracked and showed me the unit where a hole big enough to put my index finger through was on the first bend. He surmised my headaches might have been from carbon monoxide gas leaking into the house. He replaced the exchanger and I mentioned how many inducer motors I had gone through with burnt bearings. He then looked at my filter and asked if I had allergies. No. Well then why was I using this special hepa filter?? Because thats what the old homeowner used on the old furnace. The light bulb went off and he deduced the hepa filter was restricting air flow to the point the furnace was overheating, causing the inducer motor bearing to overheat and fail and reduced airflow also probably caused the heat exchanger to overheat and crack. On his recommendation I switched to a cheap air filter to increase air flow through the furnace and now 6 years later have not had the inducer fail. I just wonder why the old tech wouldnt ask "Hey this is the third unit I am installing in 7 years, maybe something is going on." It all came down to the type of air filter I was using.
High efficiency or HEPA filters are not good for furnaces.
If you want to run a high-efficiency filter you should have a 25 by 30 by 6in filter. I run Nordic pure nerve fifteen plus carbon filters and as far as I can tell they're the highest rated filter you can purchase. The very large size of the filter surface area means that even though it's a very high filtering capacity it still has more surface area than a one or two inch or so filter. Also if you are running a humidifier before the filter it will increase the filters efficiency and clog the filter a little bit more. I still get away with that on this setup.
@@ArcolaBridge Thanks for the info but its a little late in the game. I dont want to run a high efficiency filter. I just used a HEPA filter because thats what the old homeowner had in the previous furnace (that also showed the exchanger starting to crack by the way). I had no idea about different filters or airflow. And the tech who installed my furnace never told me anything. My main complaint is why didnt the tech who was on his third inducer in 7 years just pull the filter out and look. He was the expert not me.
@@robertthebruce6365 just sharing for perspective. I only change my filters once a year because of the enormous size so I save money and hassle. For me I love the fresh air it gives and I leave my fan running 24/7.
As a current hvac student , seeing that massive rollout in a real life video 📹 was worth the price of admission alone .
Appreciate the video . Thanks
I'm guessing that the furnace is oversized for that small house. As a result, the furnace short cycles during a call for heat and never gets a chance to burn off the moisture in the flu gases. The moisture in flu gases is acidic and will eat right through a heat exchanger. The next size smaller furnace would heat the house up more slowly, therefore burning off the moisture in the heat exchanger (increasing the lifespan of the heat exchanger). Excellent video showing how to troubleshoot and diagnose a cracked/rotted out heat exchanger. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.
A lot of repair people dont like the customer standing around. I just had a new furnace installed and i asked them if they cared if i stood out out the way and watched so I could learn a little. They said they didnt care. They did a great job.
Personally I don’t care what they think. I want to see what they are doing and how they approach the issue. I converted from oil to gas and could tell the two doing my install really didn’t keep up with the newer more efficient models with variable speed. This guy here didn’t seem to mind and clearly showed the woman the problem. To me this is somebody I’d call again anytime I did have a problem.
Hwr hot water tank sometimes leaks gas, sounds like a wonderful place to be
Nice footage of that rollout. At this point convincing the customer to replace the furnace with the appropriate size equipment would be the best option.
He'd had to do a btu calculation for the right size you can't guesstimate or itll short cycle or stay on too long
It's under warranty. Improper sizing doesn't cause rollout or damage to the heat exchanger. Air flow will but not it's improper size. I know a guy who got sued for talking the customer into a swap out but didn't tell them it was under warranty at the time. Folks DO NOT talk the customer into a swap like this person said without checking warranty first. You can be sued..
I have basically the same unit. 15 years old and the induction fan stopped working. The motor would hum but the bearings were gone, so no fan. Replaced the Induction unit and still wouldn't fire. Replaced the vacuum safety switch and still wouldn't open the gas valve to light. Replaced the vac hose, nope. All of the sensors checked out. Pulled the vacuum hose from the air box and sucked on it, the furnace lit, AH HA!. Not enough vacuum. Pulled the front air box cover off and everything was clean, bright, and shiny. I had to pull the heat exchanger. Would not recommend this unless you are experienced working with electrical appliances, gas lines and sharp metal things that will cut you just by looking at them. Got it out and overall it looked 15 years old but intact. Next step was to remove the rear cover to the air box and pressure test all of the tubes. That's where the problem was. Pulling off the rear cover a significant pile of rust fell out. All surfaces were rusty. All tube ends were crumbling. The fire retardant gasket was 80% gone across the bottom of the pan. Looks like moisture was collecting across the bottom causing everything to deteriorate. There were no significant openings to allow blower air in to cause roll out, but it was enough of a leak to screw up vacuum pressure. Now another $1000.00 later, I have a new heat exchanger.
Yikes that is some serious rollout.
No kidding!
NOW I understand what a rollout flame sensor is for.
Scary when it rolled out. Wow. Good catch! Smart using the camera!
I had one exactly like that.
Gas pressure was set to high burned a hole right through the tubes.
I thought that burner tubes were meant to stand every heat source at any intensity
I always make an appointment with my hvac guy around the middle of september to come out and service my furnace just incase there is any issues its done before cold weather. Last thing you want to do is wake up on a cold fall morning with no heat and someone cant get to you for a week because a hundred other people had the same issue that day. Last year he found a cracked heat exchanger on my coleman furnace. It was replaced by october and ready to go.
The Flame Roll Out was impressive. I recommend everyone have a CO Detector. It would be interesting to see what Manifold Pressure and Temperature Rise was at. Thanks for the video.
Don’t you just love when the homeowner stands there and watches every move? It’s as if they are going to fix it themselves next time.
When the electrician or furnace guy comes, I show them where the work is, ask if they want coffee etc., and leave them ALONE. Their time is my money, if they are trying to respond to my dumb questions, it’s going to be that much longer they need to be there.
Your response when she said she was going to “have a cigarette” was clear to me, you don’t mind being left alone lol. You do awesome work by the way.
I encourage them to watch. A lot of stuff could be easily fixed if they had a start. But I always tell them where to limit themselves.
You are my FAVORITE kind of customer bud!
How about when people come to your shop and ask you how to fix something. I used to own a motorcycle dealership (now retired) and we would get a lot of old bikes in for repair. My tech had old repair manuals but lots of times it was just easier to do a google search. I would sometimes tell our regular customers how they could fix something. They appreciated the information. One day a guy I never saw before comes in and says "I dont want you to charge me anything. I dont want to spend any money. I just want you to tell me how I can do this repair myself." I said "Oh you want free??? I have one word that will answer all your questions and its totally free." "Whats that?" "GOOGLE". I thought the guy was going to have a stroke.
I'm flat rate. Doesn't matter how long im there.I take every chance I get to educate someone who is interested. It's their house.
No. Only a crooked tech doesn't want you there. It actually makes our job of explaining what is broken etc alot easier with you there watching. A good tech will usually prefer the homeowner be there.
Give you props taking time to find crack considering size of roll out.
People should always select service providers who have this kind of youtube content. It's honest and non-promotional. The scam artist rarely posts about how they came in, pretended to poke around and came up with "You need a new furnace" based on scare tactics and misinformation.
This excellent example of flame rolling out great video.
If I had a dollar for every Goodman dealer that says their furnaces aren't crap and if there's a problem it because of the install. This time it's actually true lol. Short cycling will do that! It should be a 40k
I sell Am Std and Goodman. Warranty rates are very similar. Goodman is 15% less cost to install and noisier. I have very few problems with either because they are installed correctly and 90% of my new systems get Skuttle high eff air cleaners installed and PM’s offered annually.
People need to quit acting like Goodman is a bad brand, learn how to install and maintain them and you won't have problems. Their parts are plentiful and cheap to replace. They are one of the most sold brands available for the price. So naturally of course, there will be more issues for people to whine about. But with Daikin/Amana calling the shots, the new model numbers are using better parts and easy to configure by Bluetooth.
Aluminized steel heat exchangers are not as ascetically pleasing or as strong as stainless steel, but it conducts heat much more effectively than stainless steel, which is known as thermal conductivity. Exhaust systems, gas grills, furnaces, stoves, and hot water heaters are commonly made with aluminized steel. Plus, now the warranty has been upgraded to match the Amana 10-year full system replacement warranty, if a major component quits on the newer systems. I still sell mostly Amana and Daikin on that side, but I also sell Bryant Evolution and ICP Ion systems. Plus, several other brands are customers' requests. I fix and repair more Lennox, Allied and Trane than any other brands combined.
But yes, oversized systems that are short cycling can cause cracks in the exchangers. You can easily derate a furnace than replace it with a smaller unit.
Very common for a Goodman to blow holes like that in the heat exchanger. I knew it was the centre cell that was bad as it was the one blowing back once it started up. Unit is oversized, should be a 40K. Licensed Refrigeration Mechanic/ Heating Tech in Toronto, Canada
Why would an oversized unit fail prematurely? Is it too many on/off cycles?
unsufficient airflow due to ductwork being undersized for furnace installed @@draymond5067
Change out the exchanger and charge her labor, should only take 2 hours if that. It has a 20 year warranty.
Your on crack im a tech and iv never seen any brand that offers a 20 year parts warranty.
@@johnboy8191 On heat exchangers some offer 20 years and even lifetime. Pay attention to the post you residential hack fk. One day when grow up you will make some real money work on refrigeration rack system's, Ammonia and C02 system's like me. I let my 16 year old son run residential call's.
@@wd8557 Ya and I'm sure he gets a lot of call backs lol 😆 I've changed plenty of heat exchangers that were lifetime warranty
@@lowe_30 He got shut down real quick.😂😂😂😂😂
Lol deleting my reply nice you slob
You did a great job on that one ( went the extra mile by using the camera from the A coil side of the furnace). I would have just ran a birthday candle down the cells with the blower on and called it done. Unit being only 9 years old I would think the heat exchanger is still under warranty. I was never a fan of those 2 stage furnaces. Probably caused it from condensation in low fire ( it's hard to set the temperature rise on those two-stage furnaces).
1:13 The blue wire is cooked, get ready to see rollout.
Flame sensor wire
@@MiHeatingGuy plus its a down flow
I instinctively reached for my eyebrows to see if they had been singed off after I saw that rollout...
power switch and gas valve, 1st and second locations to reach for! off and off, they cry call the gas co for red tag on spot!
That's a huge hole more than likely the first turn in the heat exchanger, first they crack and then there's a chunk that breaks off.
I used to install Amana heaters that had stainless steel heat exchangers guaranteed for life.
Those days are over.
Goodman noise on fan start up and spillage will only be plugged condensing coil or bad primary seen it way too often, have seen some pretty big fractures in Goodman primaries
I'm in the Mid Michigan area and have seen numerous of these heat exchangers fail. I have seen holes just like that one, but more commonly small holes on the sides of the bends of the tubes. Where all the ripples in the bend are at. Usually on the 2nd and 3rd turns in the primary!
You can really see the cigarette glaze on that evaporater coil...
This furnace was made in 2011 and this video is 3 years old, which means that the furnace did not even pass 10 10-year warranty on the heat exchanger! My Goodman furnace model # GM9S960603BN and as per the description it has a heavy-duty aluminized-steel tubular heat exchanger. My guess is that was not the case with this model?
Fan kicked on and was blowing air though the hole in the heat exchanger causing the flame to roll out into the cabinet. Luckily the flame rollout switches shut that off.
Watching it fully through most likely water from the unit short cycling. Heater is most likely over sized. That or inserts weren't removed on propane system and they can blow into the heat exchanger causing holes.
Wow! That's some crack! Bobby and Whitney would love it! 😂 good find
Dang, that's a crazy roll out. Hope they got it replaced.
Good Lord man,, the roll out by itself could heat 800 sq ft.. lol
Customers: you're paying for the man's time and expertise...leave him alone!
I think Goodman had some production issues. My furnace had the same problem (Goodman, 2011 manufacture, hole in the heat exchanger). Some days are better than others.... Same location for the hole on mine. Good luck finding a replacement heat exchanger....discontinued item.
Company i work for used to be a goodman dealer. If found quite a few like that. They always blow out right at the back of those bends
What's the purpose of having the coil in there but not hooked up? Might as well ditch the coil and get more air flow
Better replace the furnace with the correct size, or add ductwork. Didn’t anyone take gas pressure, temperature rise and duct static as a part of a normal fire off?
Just replaced it today with a 45k
Where is the hot dogs and marshmallows LOL Houston we have a problem
Makin' smores 😲
At that age....11 yrs old, something is wrong in order for a unit that young to Crack. Airflow most likely. Improperly designed. Restricted ductwork etc.
nice find! oversized furnace! great video and take care out there!
I just had one today similar to this but not near as much rollout as that one! It was cracked and had holes through the seams.
yells "inspection mirror, inspection mirror, inspection mirror" like Steve Balmer and throws chairs around :))
Microsoft years ago (developers, developers, developers) this should make the nerds lol
I'm amazed all the stuff you fix. Good thing she called you because a person should never smell anything...I hope she invested in a CO2 monitor.
And a smoke alarm
I think you mean a CO monitor.
With a rollout that bad, there is no doubt there was a hole in that tube.
Easy quick diagnosis. Could spot that one from here.
do the yellow flames in the combustion say anything?
Why not you can get a heat exchanger for free and it only takes about an hour to install it or Goodman will give you a new furnace under the replacement program for a few hundred bucks.
@@robertthebruce6365 As far as I know, we can't install the new 80% efficient furnace in Canada anymore (can install an old used 80%), at least in Ontario. I think the minimum is 90%, if not a bit higher. I just installed my new 96% efficient Goodman 60K BTU furnace and replaced my 23-year-old 70K BTU furnace. My old Bryant furnace never failed and it has a different heat exchanger design (stamped sheet) vs Goodman design (bent pipes). However, I will keep it just in case my new furnace fails within the next 10 years. Currently, China, India, and the Middle East are warming up the planet - they have huge populations and we in Canada have to suffer because our politicians wanted to save the planet! These new high-efficiency furnaces are a scam - they work twice less than the old 80% efficient furnaces. You still can get and install the new 80% efficient furnace in the USA and there are not much $$$ savings you have if you take into consideration the new highly efficient furnace repair cost and the frequency it fails.
@@robertthebruce6365 I just replaced my 23 years old 80K BTU 80% efficient Bryant furnace with the new 60K BTU 96% efficient Goodman furnace. I kept my old furnace just in case the new one fails within next ten years or so to place it back. As far as I know, we can't install an 80% efficient furnace in Canada anymore, at least in Ontario. I think the minimum is 90%, if not a bit higher, however we can install an old 80% furnaces. These 80% furnaces work longer then new high efficient furnaces as they less complicated by design. Also these are still available to be purchased and installed in the USA. My old 80% Bryant furnace had stamped heat exchanger and it never fails, the new one has the heat exchanger made from the bent pipe and it usually would crack on the bent point. The China, India and the Middle East are heating up the planet due to a population sizes and we are in Canada are trying to save the world.
That is insane rollout :O
Why is the evaporator plumbed with PVC if there is no refrigerant lines connected to the coil?
There is most definitely lines to that coil just must come in else where. The pvc is for the drain obviously.
I thought the same thing... I’ve never seen multiple places for refrigerant lines to hook up to on a cased coil.
Ugh cracked heat exchangers
Those damned Goodman doors !
I found those junk Goodman tubes busted open just like that on several occasions here in Southeast Ohio. I literally just changed one out a week ago and I’m getting ready to change another one next Monday
I officially hate Goodman
Rollout! Rollout!
Damn that’s a nice one. Good find as always
Just from experience I find Goodman heat exchangers are absolutely awful. I’ve found cracks on 5 year old systems before.
minute the blower comes on I knew what it was...
That was terrifying 😳
What caused the hole issue too much heat? Seems to me like she was working hard
If you want your viewers to step up to the plate and help that 2 families without a furnace . I will donate.
That can happen when customers don't change their air filters.
People blame the manufacturer of the furnace for it going bad but it was the guy who oversize it to begin with. Also the gas pressure was too high causing the heat exchanger to get too hot. This is what happens when you don't have trained HVAC professional doing regular service on heating and air equipment. 🤔
ruben cohen you are not going to get this from an oversized furnace, it was quite obvious as soon as it went on that the gas pressure was way way too high. A furnace that is oversized for the house will just not run as long, which creates other problems in controlling a comfortable temperature consistently in the house, not to mention it is just a waste of money to put in a bigger btu rated furnace than what's needed for the home. As he stated in the video, it's more common on propane, because propane burns hotter than natural gas, if it's over pressured on propane, you could very easily burn through a heat exchanger in very short time.
Nice job and video
Goodman warranties usually replace the whole furnace not the heat exchanger ,that's if it's within 10 years i believe
depends on the model number and if it was registered with the factory within 60 days of install.
question did you red tag the furnace so as not to use?
Man I want that tool bag!
Are you required to lock out the gas line going into the gas valve when you find a cracked heat exchanger ?
Thanks
This is a downflow furnace, correct?
I love when they smell gas and do nothing. Like it's normal
you cant smell burned gas it an odorless killer
@@acunlimited9683 she didn't say burned gas. Open your ears
i know she didnt say burned gas but i was just trying to let people know it cant be smelled like un burned gas its a good time of year to let people know that
Over fire LP and it will take out the heat exchanger in short order
I don’t envy you on this call. Whoever designed this house with this “postage stamp” size area for a hot water heater & a furnace needs to have his business license revoked.
I just viewed a streaming video of a SERIOUS rollout on a commercial 35 to 40 year old piece of junk.
Guess what; the customer doesn’t want the unit replaced. He wants to have it repaired!!! I like to stay away from people like that because they are just plain DANGEROUS!
Junk heat exchanger makes for junk furnace. Or is this one replaceable?
“Yeah yeah yeah”.... I’m trying to get into this sob right now🤪
"I know sometimes our hot water heater will leak gas, so..."
me:
"Ok. Go ahead outside to smoke yer cigerette."
Wow!
No swing joint? We change lots of high efficient carriers. Failed secondaries. They plug up because the epoxy costing on the secondary flakes off and the secondary rusts.
Never seen this though! That’s junk!
I have a twenty-three-year-old Miller furnace for a double wide and it has a cracked heat exchange but the technicians are saying they need to replace it the whole furnace can't they just replaced the heat exchange?
Your better with a new furnace.heat exchanger is going to cost 2/3 of a new furnace
Question… I don’t have a lot of money. My furnace has a rollout and I took out the heat exchanger and found a quarter size hole in the bend or elbow of one of the tubes. Will extreme heat jb weld fix and hold until winter is over and I have more time and money to replace it?????
Absolutely not
You should do a replacement heat exchanger it’s still under warranty
Even if the heat exchanger is under warranty I still urge them to consider a new unit if it’s older than 10 years old because that means everything else is out of warranty and after paying me the labor to put it in, it’s a real tragedy if other stuff begins to fail. Especially if it has an ECM blower.
I can agree with that because ours was replaced with a new amana our old Rheem 80% failed it was from 1992 to 2019 so the heat exchanger rotted out
That unit isn’t even that old
There must be a airflow issue that caused the heat exchanger to fail ?
Better to replace furnace
nah, thats a pretty quick change out. everything is in the front to extract. nothing on the side.
I’m no hvac guy by any means but shouldn’t these have a rollout switch that’s supposed to trip to shut down the furnace?
You must have missed the part where the roll out sensors shut down the furnace.
So propane burns hotter to damage the heat exchanger???
Holy 💩 !!!!!!
Is Right
It get very obvious when the flames comes out
Great Camera
Watch that beard! I saw a roll out like that once. Had just enough room to get between a fridge and the furnace! Talk about ass over tea kettle. Couldn't get out of there fast enough.
Probably oversized and has high static pressure.
Good catch Sir!
is that one of those gmhs that can't be locked on low fire? gmv would be worth saving.
Great work!
That was scary that could burn the house down
Cracks in heat exchangers do not allow CO or natural gas into the supply air. That is totally bullshit. Rollout has a sensor should have caught that. I have seen cracked heat exchangers last for years with no issues. They get folks all worked up and a technician is happy to bill a pile of labor for their commission. Pretty much every unit is over-firing and have cracked heat exchangers after a certain number of years of service. The internet likes freak everyone out like the house is going to explode. When was the last how to explode because of a cracked heat exchanger? When the burners are lit the heat exchanger is in in a vacuum and is not blowing carbon monoxide into the supply stream. This was discussed heavily in the Master Mechanical International Fuel Gas study materials. It isn't the greatest for efficiency depending on crack size, but it also is not deadly unless your gas valve gets stuck open and your blower fan is blowing fuel flow natural gas through your home while you were sleeping.
The system has nothing to do with it being a Goodman. Aluminized stainless is actually more durable than SS. Give me a break. There are just way more oversized Goodman units sold because of price. It is just like a Honda Civic, that doesn't make them a bad car as long as you stay up on maintenance.
holy shit.
Yikes you got a hole in the heat exchanger
The whole furnace gotta go😬
Been a while since I've seen a rollout like that.
Goodman POS...
Why does this happen more often on the ones that are running on propane?
not adjusting the LP conversion kit properly.
very scary rollout the wires have the insulation burned the rollout switches should of tripped as 9 out of 10 she needs an entire new furnace as most likely replacing the heat exchanger is not advisable if its out of warranty.
If the unit was registered, it would have a 20 yr. warranty on the heat exchanger. Smoke pen would have worked also.
That furnace was way oversized for that 800 sq. ft. house. Could void the warranty.
Just curious where is the furnace located? It looks like it’s in the kitchen which seems odd.