Thank you for the comparison. Precisely buying my first foil. I ordered my F4 starter kit (F2000 + F1450) partly based on this comparison. It came all broken and damaged. I mean not by the transportation company but because it was so wrongly packaged that it had no chance of surviving the trip (little or no protection, foils were touching each other and the mast). On top of that the screw set was missing bolts for attaching the mast to the board. Well, weekend plans go out of the window, I have no foil for another 2 weeks. Strange that the customers paying 1600€ sent gear with such negligence. Can' yet comment on the quality of the actual foil it may be great. But some of us will never know. After seeing such a treatment of the package one might wonder where else did they cut costs (packing properly costs like extra 1€?)? And should I really bet on them? And the delivery took forever (9 days in EU) and the most expensive 81€(!) (to Sweden)! . And the transportation company (TNT) was delivering "between 0800 and 1800, be home and you don't have other options!", not like all do these days "between 1100 and 1300, and you are not home here are other 10 options" Hopefully I am just one unlucky customer out of thousands of happy ones. I can't seem to get through the "deliver me undamaged gear in a reasonable timeframe with a reasonable service" hurdle. Looks like F4 needs to iron out those details before "ordinary" customers will be happy.
Hi Andrei, that's definitely not what you would expect when buying a premium foil. I couldn't agree more with you that it's very easy to pack the foils so they don't damage during transportation. It isn't that expensive and will make the difference between a happy customer or a disappointed one. Hopefully for F4 and all their customers out there it's just a "Monday morning" incident and not a trend. I really feel bad for you and hope they made it right by now! That 2000 get's you up flying in the lightest of breezes and it for me it was the foil that really made the difference when learning how to jibe. I'm sure you're gonna love your 1450 freerace as well with a little more wind. The freerace is really, really nice! My wife has progressed from the 2000 to the 1250 freerace with the 340 back wing and she loves it. I use the 1050/228 freerace and that's my favorite now as it has a low stall speed (so I can go slow) and it's also fast. It's slightly less maneuverable than the 1400 freeride but it's faster and has less drag. The 850 race is faster but also has a higher stall speed which makes it more difficult to learn new tricks like tacks and 360-ties. Enjoy wingfoiling as it's really a indescribable feeling and for the foil...... I'm quite sure you're gonna love it! See you on the water!!
@@Windsurfcoach I have contacted F4. They sent replacement set. It got even worse (facepalm). Now the holes for screws in the foil and fuselage are out of line, so one cannot even assemble the the set, paint started to take off on a brand new foil. Since I still have the first set at home, I figured why not put the "old" foil on the new fuselage. Now turned out the "old" F2000 needs some work with a file tool or a knife to fit the fuselage (facepalm) since there was some leftovers from production process in the foil. Easy piece of work if I was ordering $150 Alibaba foils. From F4 one expects plug and play. Something is very fishy with consistency, tolerances, quality control in F4. F4 immediately offered money back. So at least here we don't have an issue. But I want to go on the water and foil. So do I keep ordering and wait for a good one? Again, maybe I keep getting Monday foils. I have published my experience with photos on the web, but youtube does not allow including links in the comments. Once I figure out how to publish a link in the comment I'll publish it here Oth, while waiting for F4 replacement I found a place to rent wingfoil gear. Yesterday finally got my first "controlled" flights. Not on F4 foil :). That was actually simplest beaten up Gong Rise XL. Amazing sport! Totally love it! If I ever get my F4 in order I will be able to compare my experiences.
Hi@@AJ_00176 , that's a real bummer......... If I read your story it really sounds like there's a problem with quality control for that foil with F4. Good to hear that at least they offer the "money back" option. I'm soooo glad to hear that you found a rental place to experience winging for the first time and even did your first flight!!! I'm afraid you'll be hooked for the rest of your life! It's such a great feeling in a small package that's so easy to transport and rig. If I have only very little time I just put my wing board (with foil already mounted) wing and pump in the car, drive for 5 minutes to my small local lake, pump up my wing and I'm on the water in 5 minutes! I love it! Hope you get your own (working) equipment soon and ... See you on the water!!
@Windsurfcoach The trouble is that @F4FOILS is not interested in debugging the issue! They sent 2(!) Foils with the same problem. So tomorrow, somebody else will look at your video. Order F2000 and get the same broken stuff. I mean, the picture of @F4FOILS should be balanced.: they maybe have good designs. But their production quality, QA, ability to debug and improve. Is not 100% there it should be. Like often: designs is one thing. Production at scale and quality is another.
@Windsurfcoach could you maybe "unhide" my comment of 15 min ago (other users of your channel don't see it)? I posted a link to video I made with detailed explanation (so many times people argue on the Internet without facts. I produced facts. I paid for it €1600 and 3+ weeks of my time. Showed with a caliper tool that the back hole for mounting F2000, both of the ones @F4FOILS sent me is drilled 1mm off the correct position) That comment is probably in in your channel's settings->comments->held for review. Again in the spirit: you help the wing community to learn that F4 has great design. My experience and facts will help F4 to improve. And overall would give a more balanced picture of what customers should expect from F4. The less we as a community tolerate such quality deviations the higher quality products will be produced. all win. Well, others can just go to my profile and find that video.
Hi, but what kind of entry GONG did you choose? old V1 or new V2, with stiffer alu mast ? The Gong V2 X-over Foil cost not even 100€ more, and for that price you can choose the front Wing XXL 2200cm2. If you are more than 90 kg, beginner, on the Geneva Lake with less wind than in NL, it’s difficult to find a better choice and you can buy later a GONG carbon mast for 400-500€ (depending of the length) or choose more Hi-ratio wings for smoother feelings. But it’s interesting to see in your video, even a beginner can take advantage from the carbon foil, like I noticed it’s much better with a powerful Ensis Score Wing than a cheap wing. Have nice Wingfoiling.
Hi Fabio, thank you for your reply and for sharing your experience. The test was with the Gong Allvator X-over 1900 cm2 V2 according to my information. Geneva is a really beautiful place to have as homespot, but I realize we are blessed with a lot more windy days in the Netherlands. As for that the foil is really perfect! On those patchy days where you would be struggling windsurfing you can now have a blast wing/wind foiling. Just mount a big enough foil and go for it!! The lighter the winds the more important it is to get that foil that really has the glide to go from 1 small gust to the other without stopping. My wife uses the F4 2000 light wind and is on the foil in the lightest of breezes. The bigger foils like the ones on test are also really easy to pump compared to the smaller foils(besides pumping the sail). It's absolutely true that it's also worth considering a better wing as it is your engine and there are considerable differences in performance. The better wings provide the right power to get you on the foil quicker, have less drag and deliver higher speeds so it will be easier to stay on the foil longer. Great to hear you liked the video and... See you on the water!!!!
Superleuke review! Ik kijk sinds kort je video's en omdat de wind deze zomer nogal tegenviel heb ik nu zelf pas 8 sessies achter de rug. Foilend links voor en rechts voor heb ik nu aardig onder de knie, maar gijpen.... nee, nog niet! Heb je ook al een keer gevaren met de andere wings van Gong? Of hebben jullie alleen de x-over en de F4? Ik ben gestart met een Gong Curve XL (redelijk low-aspect) maar heb al een Veloce XL klaar staan voor als ik het gijpen onder de knie heb. Maar als ik jullie video nu bekijk, zou je dan adviseren om zo snel als mogelijk over te stappen naar een meer 'glide' foil? Of gewoon eerst alle basis dingen leren op de Curve en dan als dat lukt... knallen met de Veloce?
Hi Pieter, dank je! Leuk om te horen. Met dit soort zomers ben ik ook heel blij dat er tegenwoordig foils zijn. Dat wingen is echt super chil! Voor de wing gijp heb ik 2 video's om je te helpen deze zo snel mogelijk onder de knie te krijgen, maar die heb je waarschijnlijk al gezien. Ik heb 3 verschillende Gong wings gevaren maar nog niet de Veloce. Een foil met meer glide geeft je meer tijd om rustig een gijp te maken. Mijn eerste winggijp lukte toen ik voor het eerst op die F4 foil stond, gewoon omdat die foil weinig weerstand had en maar door bleef gaan waardoor ik meer tijd had om de gijp rustig te doen. Afhankelijk van hoe stabiel die Veloce is zou het kunnen werken, al ben ik bang dat ie te veel voor speed gemaakt is. Belangrijk als je leert gijpen is dat je stabiliteit hebt en tijd om je gijp te maken, maar je wil ook niet te hard gaan. Om die gijp te leren wil je veilig kunnen crashen, dus met relatief lage snelheid en die F4foils Lightwind 2000 cm2 heeft glide EN je kan er lekker rustig (lees langzaam) mee varen. Ideale combi om de winggijp te leren of met heel weinig wind op de foil te komen. Misschien is de Curve toch de betere keus, maar ik heb de Veloce nog nooit aan de tand gevoeld... Succes met gijpen en... Tot op het water!!!
Gong heeft een foil die iets duurder is maar nog steeds de helft of een derde kost van alle high end foils en vaak veel beter presteert. Wil je echt appels met appels vergelijken had je beter bijvoorbeeld een Gong Curve of Fluid v2 kunnen nemen. Ze bieden juist een heel breed gamma voor elke foiler tegen de helft of minder van de zgn. high end merken (ze doen niet onder qua techniek, ze zijn niet voor niks wereldkampioen geworden met hun nieuwste foils en wings) door de middeleman eruit te snijden en toch een uitstekende servic te bieden.
Hi Jerre, klopt! Gong is goed bezig. Deze test is een test van de first generation (2021) instap wingfoils van zowel Gong als F4. Wat dat betreft een mooie vergelijking om te zien waar de verschillende merken toen stonden en wat de verschillen waren. Het grappige is idd dat er een enorm prijsverschil in zit zoals je in de video kan zien, maar dus ook een aardig verschil in performance en feel. In de afgelopen paar jaar is er enorm veel vooruitgang geboekt bij alle wing merken. Een nieuwe test van een 1000 of 1200 cm2 Gong curve of fluid tegenover een F4 freerace of GP zou zeker wel eens heel leuk kunnen zijn en sta ik zeker voor open. Als er een 1000/1200 Curve/Fluid beschikbaar wordt gesteld voor een test dan ga ik die test zeker doen!! Tot op het water!!!!
Let me know if this makes sense for light wind winging, instead of buying SAB’s 1550 (2140 cm2, AR: 11,30) I’m thinking of f4’s two wing setup (and selling my SAB 1350 rig) F4’s Lightwind 2500 Frontwing (120cm - 2500sqcm) Freeride 1720 Frontwing (94cm - 1720sqcm) Aluminum Plate Foil 85cm - V2 Rear Wing (42cm - 340sqcm) Fuselage Wing 70cm Any thoughts?
Hi Gabriel, to be able to answer your question correctly could you please answer a few questions for me? Can you already get up onto the foil? How are your jibes (if you already started practicing jibes)? What board do you use and how many liters (volume)? What is your approximate weight? See you on the water!!
just saw the other questions, jibes are not very good. 190 lbs...86.18 kilos Wingboard HIPE Cruzader inflatable 7’11 (which is great for travel and light winds) Slingshot Wingcraft V2 80L 1350 Leviathan SAB 83 Mast Stab 380 Fuse 753
Approaching the ultra light winds of summer, I was thinking of adding SAB’s Lev. 1550 but it would also need a new stiffer $$$ mast. The F4 option would be the same price and seems like better glide/low end speed.
Hi @@gabrielgillen1590 , I haven't tried the SAB foil yet, but they have a pretty good reputation. The 1350 is also a pretty high aspect already, so what you have is already pretty good for glide. What you need really depends on what your aim will be for this year. If you just want to glide for miles what you have will be great even in light wind. What I like about F4foils is that with 1 mast you can basically do it all from cruising around, wave riding, pump foil and even racing. Just switch front- or back wings fuselages depending on your needs. (I use the CA series) Looking at what you already have a F4 carbon mast would be the better option if you want to switch to F4foils as it has less drag and is more responsive. The F4 aluminum mast is absolutely a very nice and stiff mast if you compare it with other aluminum masts on the market, but the F4 carbon mast is simply better. You want as little drag as possible as you say you have mainly low wind conditions. The 2500 or 2000 will get you onto the foil in the lightest of breezes. I haven't tried the F4 2500 yet but the 2000 was the frontwing that helped me a lot with my first jibes and allowed me to go out wingfoiling in the slightest of breezes. As soon as you are pretty comfortable on the foil and are starting to learn how to jibe I would recommend the 1450 freerace frontwing as a second wing. I know it sounds extremely small but it's a very friendly, efficient and stable wing. As soon as there is just a little more wind it is just a fantastic wing with great glide. I think that once you have the hang of it you will eventually use it as your go to wing every session. I used the 1250 and 1050 freerace a lot and now my wife uses the 1250 all the time and she loves it. In all cases for now just use the 340 back wing. I hope there is a shop near your location that will allow you to test the foils you are looking for before buying as that is always the best way to make a decision. Let us know what it will be for you and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions. See you on the water!!!
Hi Sander, bij windfoilen is het iets minder belangrijk dan bij wingen. Het is makkelijker om langer meer power en snelheid tijdens de bocht te houden bij windfoilen, maar het helpt je wel in het leer proces als je een foil hebt met minder weerstand en meer "glide". Meer glide geeft je ook bij wind(surf)foilen meer tijd tijdens de gijp zodat jij je rustig kan concentreren op de stappen van de gijp. Succes en... Tot op het water!!
I have the F4 freerace 1050 package with full carbon mast and the Gong Alvator v2 Curve 1450 with alu mast. (600 euro new) Honestly, the Gong Curve XL frontwing is lighter because its carbon + has a foam core and finished a bit better as compared to the much thinner High aspect F4 1050, which is probably completely solid. Not that the 1050 is bad, but Gong is not inferior in this. The Gong stabilizer and FW are full carbon and very nicely made. Maybe not "windfoil heavy duty" construction with those square fuse fittings but for winging they are fine. My F4 sounds like a whale because the mast has a 2-3mm thick trailing edge which isn't cut straight as well if you look closely. For the price the finish is not what I expected. 🤨 The mast is really super stiff though, stiff-stiffer-F4 sums it up. Got to hand it to F4 for that, they make them solid and a bit heavy but lighter than Alu. After 5 rides the outher shell of the F4 mini tuttle (with the 3 barrels, fell off as it was glued improperly. Its for protecting against corrosion between carbon and alu. I honestly prefer the Gong at the moment, more balanced fun carvy easy ride, but maybe later on the F4 will be the drug, if I finish it properly. Its kinda hard to sand 2mm of a 2200,- foil. 😂
Hi Ilja, thanks for sharing! That sounds like a bad Monday morning product by F4 and shouldn't be sent out to customers like that especially not for that price! I've been using and testing F4 products for more than 2 years and haven't seen those issues yet. On the socials I've seen what you can do and must say I'm very impressed by your work. So I'm sure you could fix the problem if you wanted, but I think that's not your job in this case. Have you contacted F4 already about it? See you on the water!!
@@Windsurfcoach Yes, it could be an exception. I just remembered I've also fixed the m6 thread of the front bolt of an F4 race fuse for a sponsored windsurfer and had a look at the quality. That F4 windfoil (both mast and wings) looked better than my own F4 wingfoil (apart from the thread, which was probably overtightened) but that was before or in the beginning of the pandemic. I think.... it might have to do with the pandemic and material shortages / delivery backlog as the guy which I bought it from at the end of the COVID stuff, he had to wait really long for it to arrive due to shortages. I bought it from him because he was a beginner and bought another foil due to the long lead time. Maybe F4 production was under pressure and it was rushed.... Gong honestly isn't bad as well, if you don't pick the absolute cheapest one. The new F4 GP series looks pretty good.. the design is not new as other brands do the same but F4 makes a full carbon product with F4 stiffness. Probably only the new AFS pure 560 with the 'mikeslab-style' wing-fuse lower part and chubanga/mikeslab wingfoils will be on the same level for now.
@@Flenderr Things like that shouldn't happen, not for the money you pay for it. I haven't seen and tested the f4foils carbon wingmast yet as I still use the aluminum version. The aluminum version is pretty heavy but really stiff and fast for alu. The carbon windfoil masts I've had my hands on were very close to perfection and a 2 mm thick trailing edge is just ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed for shipment to a customer. F4Foils are all about racing so their masts might be a bit more heavy, but if you're looking for speed these F4 race masts are really the one's for you. I know that the front screw of some fuselages are shorter to get a better profile of the fuse and thus more fragile. For 2023 the new F4 fuselages have stainless steel helicoils to make them more resistant to over tightening. The GP series look really nice and have besides the super stiff and fast race masts also the lighter freestyle and free ride masts. I must say that for winging I'm not looking for extremely fast but more for comfort and playful so my choice would also be the lighter freestyle mast. Did you know that the designer of F4 foils is one of the leading foil designers in the world and that quite a few big brands buy his designs? e.g. remember NeilPryde F4 race foil and did you know that Cabrinha foils and others are also all F4 designs? Besides a good design you also need a good construction otherwise you won't get that stiff and fast foil or that feel you want, but that's something you know all about. I really recommend contacting F4 as it's such a bummer to buy a foil have high expectations and then have a negative experience like that. See you on the water!!!
@@Flenderr the new and more expensive Gong foils look pretty good as well but I haven't had my hands on them so I can't compare. But It might make a nice video to compare the F4 foils wing GP with the best Gong wingfoil. If both brands will make them available for testing I definitively make the video! See you on the water!!
Thank you for the comparison. Precisely buying my first foil. I ordered my F4 starter kit (F2000 + F1450) partly based on this comparison. It came all broken and damaged. I mean not by the transportation company but because it was so wrongly packaged that it had no chance of surviving the trip (little or no protection, foils were touching each other and the mast). On top of that the screw set was missing bolts for attaching the mast to the board. Well, weekend plans go out of the window, I have no foil for another 2 weeks. Strange that the customers paying 1600€ sent gear with such negligence. Can' yet comment on the quality of the actual foil it may be great. But some of us will never know. After seeing such a treatment of the package one might wonder where else did they cut costs (packing properly costs like extra 1€?)? And should I really bet on them? And the delivery took forever (9 days in EU) and the most expensive 81€(!) (to Sweden)! . And the transportation company (TNT) was delivering "between 0800 and 1800, be home and you don't have other options!", not like all do these days "between 1100 and 1300, and you are not home here are other 10 options" Hopefully I am just one unlucky customer out of thousands of happy ones. I can't seem to get through the "deliver me undamaged gear in a reasonable timeframe with a reasonable service" hurdle. Looks like F4 needs to iron out those details before "ordinary" customers will be happy.
Hi Andrei,
that's definitely not what you would expect when buying a premium foil.
I couldn't agree more with you that it's very easy to pack the foils so they don't damage during transportation. It isn't that expensive and will make the difference between a happy customer or a disappointed one.
Hopefully for F4 and all their customers out there it's just a "Monday morning" incident and not a trend.
I really feel bad for you and hope they made it right by now!
That 2000 get's you up flying in the lightest of breezes and it for me it was the foil that really made the difference when learning how to jibe.
I'm sure you're gonna love your 1450 freerace as well with a little more wind.
The freerace is really, really nice!
My wife has progressed from the 2000 to the 1250 freerace with the 340 back wing and she loves it.
I use the 1050/228 freerace and that's my favorite now as it has a low stall speed (so I can go slow) and it's also fast.
It's slightly less maneuverable than the 1400 freeride but it's faster and has less drag.
The 850 race is faster but also has a higher stall speed which makes it more difficult to learn new tricks like tacks and 360-ties.
Enjoy wingfoiling as it's really a indescribable feeling and for the foil...... I'm quite sure you're gonna love it!
See you on the water!!
@@Windsurfcoach I have contacted F4. They sent replacement set. It got even worse (facepalm). Now the holes for screws in the foil and fuselage are out of line, so one cannot even assemble the the set, paint started to take off on a brand new foil. Since I still have the first set at home, I figured why not put the "old" foil on the new fuselage. Now turned out the "old" F2000 needs some work with a file tool or a knife to fit the fuselage (facepalm) since there was some leftovers from production process in the foil. Easy piece of work if I was ordering $150 Alibaba foils. From F4 one expects plug and play. Something is very fishy with consistency, tolerances, quality control in F4. F4 immediately offered money back. So at least here we don't have an issue. But I want to go on the water and foil. So do I keep ordering and wait for a good one? Again, maybe I keep getting Monday foils. I have published my experience with photos on the web, but youtube does not allow including links in the comments. Once I figure out how to publish a link in the comment I'll publish it here
Oth, while waiting for F4 replacement I found a place to rent wingfoil gear. Yesterday finally got my first "controlled" flights. Not on F4 foil :). That was actually simplest beaten up Gong Rise XL. Amazing sport! Totally love it! If I ever get my F4 in order I will be able to compare my experiences.
Hi@@AJ_00176 ,
that's a real bummer.........
If I read your story it really sounds like there's a problem with quality control for that foil with F4.
Good to hear that at least they offer the "money back" option.
I'm soooo glad to hear that you found a rental place to experience winging for the first time and even did your first flight!!!
I'm afraid you'll be hooked for the rest of your life!
It's such a great feeling in a small package that's so easy to transport and rig.
If I have only very little time I just put my wing board (with foil already mounted) wing and pump in the car, drive for 5 minutes to my small local lake, pump up my wing and I'm on the water in 5 minutes!
I love it!
Hope you get your own (working) equipment soon and ...
See you on the water!!
@Windsurfcoach The trouble is that @F4FOILS is not interested in debugging the issue! They sent 2(!) Foils with the same problem. So tomorrow, somebody else will look at your video. Order F2000 and get the same broken stuff. I mean, the picture of @F4FOILS should be balanced.: they maybe have good designs. But their production quality, QA, ability to debug and improve. Is not 100% there it should be. Like often: designs is one thing. Production at scale and quality is another.
@Windsurfcoach could you maybe "unhide" my comment of 15 min ago (other users of your channel don't see it)? I posted a link to video I made with detailed explanation (so many times people argue on the Internet without facts. I produced facts. I paid for it €1600 and 3+ weeks of my time. Showed with a caliper tool that the back hole for mounting F2000, both of the ones @F4FOILS sent me is drilled 1mm off the correct position) That comment is probably in in your channel's settings->comments->held for review. Again in the spirit: you help the wing community to learn that F4 has great design. My experience and facts will help F4 to improve. And overall would give a more balanced picture of what customers should expect from F4. The less we as a community tolerate such quality deviations the higher quality products will be produced. all win.
Well, others can just go to my profile and find that video.
Leuke en leerzame video!
Dank je Sander!
Tot op het water!!!
Hi, but what kind of entry GONG did you choose? old V1 or new V2, with stiffer alu mast ?
The Gong V2 X-over Foil cost not even 100€ more, and for that price you can choose the front Wing XXL 2200cm2.
If you are more than 90 kg, beginner, on the Geneva Lake with less wind than in NL, it’s difficult to find a better choice and you can buy later a GONG carbon mast for 400-500€ (depending of the length) or choose more Hi-ratio wings for smoother feelings.
But it’s interesting to see in your video, even a beginner can take advantage from the carbon foil, like I noticed it’s much better with a powerful Ensis Score Wing than a cheap wing.
Have nice Wingfoiling.
Hi Fabio,
thank you for your reply and for sharing your experience.
The test was with the Gong Allvator X-over 1900 cm2 V2 according to my information.
Geneva is a really beautiful place to have as homespot, but I realize we are blessed with a lot more windy days in the Netherlands.
As for that the foil is really perfect!
On those patchy days where you would be struggling windsurfing you can now have a blast wing/wind foiling.
Just mount a big enough foil and go for it!!
The lighter the winds the more important it is to get that foil that really has the glide to go from 1 small gust to the other without stopping.
My wife uses the F4 2000 light wind and is on the foil in the lightest of breezes.
The bigger foils like the ones on test are also really easy to pump compared to the smaller foils(besides pumping the sail).
It's absolutely true that it's also worth considering a better wing as it is your engine and there are considerable differences in performance.
The better wings provide the right power to get you on the foil quicker, have less drag and deliver higher speeds so it will be easier to stay on the foil longer.
Great to hear you liked the video and...
See you on the water!!!!
If it was 1900 volume it is the V1 XL. The x-over V2 XL has 1650 volume and has better glide and speed.
Superleuke review! Ik kijk sinds kort je video's en omdat de wind deze zomer nogal tegenviel heb ik nu zelf pas 8 sessies achter de rug. Foilend links voor en rechts voor heb ik nu aardig onder de knie, maar gijpen.... nee, nog niet!
Heb je ook al een keer gevaren met de andere wings van Gong? Of hebben jullie alleen de x-over en de F4?
Ik ben gestart met een Gong Curve XL (redelijk low-aspect) maar heb al een Veloce XL klaar staan voor als ik het gijpen onder de knie heb. Maar als ik jullie video nu bekijk, zou je dan adviseren om zo snel als mogelijk over te stappen naar een meer 'glide' foil? Of gewoon eerst alle basis dingen leren op de Curve en dan als dat lukt... knallen met de Veloce?
Hi Pieter,
dank je!
Leuk om te horen.
Met dit soort zomers ben ik ook heel blij dat er tegenwoordig foils zijn.
Dat wingen is echt super chil!
Voor de wing gijp heb ik 2 video's om je te helpen deze zo snel mogelijk onder de knie te krijgen, maar die heb je waarschijnlijk al gezien.
Ik heb 3 verschillende Gong wings gevaren maar nog niet de Veloce.
Een foil met meer glide geeft je meer tijd om rustig een gijp te maken.
Mijn eerste winggijp lukte toen ik voor het eerst op die F4 foil stond, gewoon omdat die foil weinig weerstand had en maar door bleef gaan waardoor ik meer tijd had om de gijp rustig te doen.
Afhankelijk van hoe stabiel die Veloce is zou het kunnen werken, al ben ik bang dat ie te veel voor speed gemaakt is.
Belangrijk als je leert gijpen is dat je stabiliteit hebt en tijd om je gijp te maken, maar je wil ook niet te hard gaan.
Om die gijp te leren wil je veilig kunnen crashen, dus met relatief lage snelheid en die F4foils Lightwind 2000 cm2 heeft glide EN je kan er lekker rustig (lees langzaam) mee varen.
Ideale combi om de winggijp te leren of met heel weinig wind op de foil te komen.
Misschien is de Curve toch de betere keus, maar ik heb de Veloce nog nooit aan de tand gevoeld...
Succes met gijpen en...
Tot op het water!!!
Gong heeft een foil die iets duurder is maar nog steeds de helft of een derde kost van alle high end foils en vaak veel beter presteert. Wil je echt appels met appels vergelijken had je beter bijvoorbeeld een Gong Curve of Fluid v2 kunnen nemen. Ze bieden juist een heel breed gamma voor elke foiler tegen de helft of minder van de zgn. high end merken (ze doen niet onder qua techniek, ze zijn niet voor niks wereldkampioen geworden met hun nieuwste foils en wings) door de middeleman eruit te snijden en toch een uitstekende servic te bieden.
Hi Jerre,
klopt!
Gong is goed bezig.
Deze test is een test van de first generation (2021) instap wingfoils van zowel Gong als F4.
Wat dat betreft een mooie vergelijking om te zien waar de verschillende merken toen stonden en wat de verschillen waren.
Het grappige is idd dat er een enorm prijsverschil in zit zoals je in de video kan zien, maar dus ook een aardig verschil in performance en feel.
In de afgelopen paar jaar is er enorm veel vooruitgang geboekt bij alle wing merken.
Een nieuwe test van een 1000 of 1200 cm2 Gong curve of fluid tegenover een F4 freerace of GP zou zeker wel eens heel leuk kunnen zijn en sta ik zeker voor open.
Als er een 1000/1200 Curve/Fluid beschikbaar wordt gesteld voor een test dan ga ik die test zeker doen!!
Tot op het water!!!!
Is the F4 mast you tested aluminum or carbon fibre?
Hi Gtnarg,
sorry for the late response...
Your message just slipped my mind.
The F4 mast was a aluminum mast.
See you on the water!!
Let me know if this makes sense for light wind winging, instead of buying SAB’s 1550 (2140 cm2, AR: 11,30)
I’m thinking of f4’s two wing setup (and selling my SAB 1350 rig)
F4’s Lightwind 2500 Frontwing (120cm - 2500sqcm)
Freeride 1720 Frontwing (94cm - 1720sqcm)
Aluminum Plate Foil 85cm - V2
Rear Wing (42cm - 340sqcm)
Fuselage Wing 70cm
Any thoughts?
Hi Gabriel,
to be able to answer your question correctly could you please answer a few questions for me?
Can you already get up onto the foil?
How are your jibes (if you already started practicing jibes)?
What board do you use and how many liters (volume)?
What is your approximate weight?
See you on the water!!
@@WindsurfcoachYes, I get up on foil and remain with no problem. Still working on jibes.
thanks Coach!
just saw the other questions, jibes are not very good.
190 lbs...86.18 kilos
Wingboard HIPE Cruzader inflatable 7’11 (which is great for travel and light winds)
Slingshot Wingcraft V2 80L
1350 Leviathan
SAB 83 Mast
Stab 380
Fuse 753
Approaching the ultra light winds of summer, I was thinking of adding SAB’s Lev. 1550 but it would also need a new stiffer $$$ mast.
The F4 option would be the same price and seems like better glide/low end speed.
Hi @@gabrielgillen1590 ,
I haven't tried the SAB foil yet, but they have a pretty good reputation. The 1350 is also a pretty high aspect already, so what you have is already pretty good for glide.
What you need really depends on what your aim will be for this year.
If you just want to glide for miles what you have will be great even in light wind.
What I like about F4foils is that with 1 mast you can basically do it all from cruising around, wave riding, pump foil and even racing.
Just switch front- or back wings fuselages depending on your needs. (I use the CA series)
Looking at what you already have a F4 carbon mast would be the better option if you want to switch to F4foils as it has less drag and is more responsive.
The F4 aluminum mast is absolutely a very nice and stiff mast if you compare it with other aluminum masts on the market, but the F4 carbon mast is simply better.
You want as little drag as possible as you say you have mainly low wind conditions.
The 2500 or 2000 will get you onto the foil in the lightest of breezes.
I haven't tried the F4 2500 yet but the 2000 was the frontwing that helped me a lot with my first jibes and allowed me to go out wingfoiling in the slightest of breezes.
As soon as you are pretty comfortable on the foil and are starting to learn how to jibe I would recommend the 1450 freerace frontwing as a second wing.
I know it sounds extremely small but it's a very friendly, efficient and stable wing.
As soon as there is just a little more wind it is just a fantastic wing with great glide. I think that once you have the hang of it you will eventually use it as your go to wing every session.
I used the 1250 and 1050 freerace a lot and now my wife uses the 1250 all the time and she loves it.
In all cases for now just use the 340 back wing.
I hope there is a shop near your location that will allow you to test the foils you are looking for before buying as that is always the best way to make a decision.
Let us know what it will be for you and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.
See you on the water!!!
Hoi; geldt dit net zo goed voor wind surf foilen?
Hi Sander,
bij windfoilen is het iets minder belangrijk dan bij wingen.
Het is makkelijker om langer meer power en snelheid tijdens de bocht te houden bij windfoilen, maar het helpt je wel in het leer proces als je een foil hebt met minder weerstand en meer "glide".
Meer glide geeft je ook bij wind(surf)foilen meer tijd tijdens de gijp zodat jij je rustig kan concentreren op de stappen van de gijp.
Succes en...
Tot op het water!!
I have the F4 freerace 1050 package with full carbon mast and the Gong Alvator v2 Curve 1450 with alu mast. (600 euro new)
Honestly, the Gong Curve XL frontwing is lighter because its carbon + has a foam core and finished a bit better as compared to the much thinner High aspect F4 1050, which is probably completely solid. Not that the 1050 is bad, but Gong is not inferior in this. The Gong stabilizer and FW are full carbon and very nicely made.
Maybe not "windfoil heavy duty" construction with those square fuse fittings but for winging they are fine.
My F4 sounds like a whale because the mast has a 2-3mm thick trailing edge which isn't cut straight as well if you look closely. For the price the finish is not what I expected. 🤨
The mast is really super stiff though, stiff-stiffer-F4 sums it up. Got to hand it to F4 for that, they make them solid and a bit heavy but lighter than Alu.
After 5 rides the outher shell of the F4 mini tuttle (with the 3 barrels, fell off as it was glued improperly. Its for protecting against corrosion between carbon and alu.
I honestly prefer the Gong at the moment, more balanced fun carvy easy ride, but maybe later on the F4 will be the drug, if I finish it properly.
Its kinda hard to sand 2mm of a 2200,- foil. 😂
Hi Ilja,
thanks for sharing!
That sounds like a bad Monday morning product by F4 and shouldn't be sent out to customers like that especially not for that price!
I've been using and testing F4 products for more than 2 years and haven't seen those issues yet.
On the socials I've seen what you can do and must say I'm very impressed by your work. So I'm sure you could fix the problem if you wanted, but I think that's not your job in this case.
Have you contacted F4 already about it?
See you on the water!!
@@Windsurfcoach Yes, it could be an exception. I just remembered I've also fixed the m6 thread of the front bolt of an F4 race fuse for a sponsored windsurfer and had a look at the quality.
That F4 windfoil (both mast and wings) looked better than my own F4 wingfoil (apart from the thread, which was probably overtightened) but that was before or in the beginning of the pandemic.
I think.... it might have to do with the pandemic and material shortages / delivery backlog as the guy which I bought it from at the end of the COVID stuff, he had to wait really long for it to arrive due to shortages. I bought it from him because he was a beginner and bought another foil due to the long lead time.
Maybe F4 production was under pressure and it was rushed....
Gong honestly isn't bad as well, if you don't pick the absolute cheapest one.
The new F4 GP series looks pretty good.. the design is not new as other brands do the same but F4 makes a full carbon product with F4 stiffness. Probably only the new AFS pure 560 with the 'mikeslab-style' wing-fuse lower part and chubanga/mikeslab wingfoils will be on the same level for now.
@@Flenderr
Things like that shouldn't happen, not for the money you pay for it.
I haven't seen and tested the f4foils carbon wingmast yet as I still use the aluminum version. The aluminum version is pretty heavy but really stiff and fast for alu.
The carbon windfoil masts I've had my hands on were very close to perfection and a 2 mm thick trailing edge is just ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed for shipment to a customer.
F4Foils are all about racing so their masts might be a bit more heavy, but if you're looking for speed these F4 race masts are really the one's for you.
I know that the front screw of some fuselages are shorter to get a better profile of the fuse and thus more fragile.
For 2023 the new F4 fuselages have stainless steel helicoils to make them more resistant to over tightening.
The GP series look really nice and have besides the super stiff and fast race masts also the lighter freestyle and free ride masts.
I must say that for winging I'm not looking for extremely fast but more for comfort and playful so my choice would also be the lighter freestyle mast.
Did you know that the designer of F4 foils is one of the leading foil designers in the world and that quite a few big brands buy his designs?
e.g. remember NeilPryde F4 race foil and did you know that Cabrinha foils and others are also all F4 designs?
Besides a good design you also need a good construction otherwise you won't get that stiff and fast foil or that feel you want, but that's something you know all about.
I really recommend contacting F4 as it's such a bummer to buy a foil have high expectations and then have a negative experience like that.
See you on the water!!!
@@Flenderr the new and more expensive Gong foils look pretty good as well but I haven't had my hands on them so I can't compare.
But It might make a nice video to compare the F4 foils wing GP with the best Gong wingfoil.
If both brands will make them available for testing I definitively make the video!
See you on the water!!