Comparing those 2 boards is like comparing a road cycling bike to a mountain bike. You're not comparing apples to apples. The older 85 liter board size is where wave boards begin. That size of board needs a lot of nose to keep it from catching, have more rounded rails, and have a lot more bottom rocker to make it work in the waves. All of those traits will definitely make it slower. No one is going to take a 110 liter slalom board into waves that the 85 liter board would be perfectly happy in.
He said that although it says "Wave" on the logo, THIS is an old JP SLALOM board. In other words he is comparing two apples. LOL. Pity he limited himself to his sponsor "JP" because there are 30 year old SLALOM boards out there that are just as fast and maneuverable such as the AHD Pro Race series or the Diamond Race series of 1990's and 2000's.
@@Team33Team33 A freeride board was designed to be a 90% "do-all" board....not a great wave board....and not a great slalom board....but comfortable doing both. I believe that label on the board is the correct sticker. He can say that it's a slalom board to make it a slalom board comparison, but the amount of nose and rounded tail design boarders way more on a freewave/freeride concept. Hell...my old Bic Astro Rock would have done a lot better on the top end. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
@@bagomoyo Its a marketing thing. They will print what YOU want to THINK you are buying on the board to sell more of them. Up to YOu to make a choice (Oh my god; I said the forbidden word: Choice). Use your head and experience, test the board and find out for yourself. If it's good for surf slalom then it should be called an "All Round" board. Cheers mate. Now you have a choice to make; a real one that will affect your life. LOL.
Thanks. Very interesting to me. I am a 75 yr old windsurfer who is considering upgrading my old gear and buying the latest, greatest board. After watching this, I am more likely to do that. And, as a photographer, I have to say that fin-windsuring is still the most photogenic windsport. Yes, foil-windsurfing, kiteboarding and winging are cool. But to me, fin-windsurfing is still the most beautiful.
I think you need to at least TRY foiling. It's so much easier on the old bones !!! And of course continue fin sailing. As you said. THATS where the fun is. Foiling isn't the same sport.
Thanks. So many choices, all good. I have friends who have moved to foil-windsurfing or winging, and they very much enjoy it. So those sports are on my radar, and I will take some lessons. But I think I want to fin-windsurf until it is obvious that my body can't handle it. Who knows, maybe fin-windsurfing will help me maintain strength and stamina. Sometimes physical stress is good.
Started wirt a sailboard 360 in 1987. Then a Vinta 315. Then a tiga wave , then proof boards gran canaria and Jp and back to cs proofboards today. Best boards
I'm younger and not your level (and definitely not Nico's) but I can only confirm: modern boards are MUCH easier. The plane easier, gybe easier and you can stay on water in high wind on a much bigger board than even in the late 90's. Up to about 20-25knts waterstart is not really necessary, which is perhaps not quite a pleasure for your back, but surely a blessing for the knees ;) I own both contemporary and old ones, and the only old one I regularly use is a raceboard.
@@grzegorzgorniewski6502 Same here. I use a raceboard and sometimes a D2 board when there is little wind for the fun. Funboarding (as it was called back then) starts at 20kts with short boards !
Oldest board you could find, ehe? I could have given you a 1978 Ostermann Windglider. You could also have looked out for a Freerider-avant-la-lettre: a Bic Show, Windsurfer Rocket or Mistral Kailua.
I still have my 41yo Naish Gun with deep conclaves and a stretched narrow tail. It planes in 15 knots, jibes like a demon, and is still easily controlled in 40 knots (in PNG with a 2.8m sail).
Suffering here. I was learning on an old as dirt fanatic fun/race 340 with center board sliding track. The base broke and I cannot find a new one. So now I am stuck wit a f² sunrise which is 105 L 😭 I literally just lay in the water wishing I can waterstart just for the exercise. Windsurfing is sooooo hard to get started in the states. It's not zero to hero here, it's zero to zero for years until you can find someone to ship a board(when I have the money nobody is shipping) or stumble on and affordable one locally. I dream of a jp magic to complete my zero to hero series that is now 2 years to long. 😢 I just started a separate savings account to get a new magic or equivalent. Packed away the gear till then. That is the true feeling of these old boards now.
Hello there from The Netherlands.. i'll ship one to you if you want. Very large second hand market here. Shipping will likely be quite expensive, however if you are up for it i'll make it hapen.
Mid-fifties dude here. My first ones were the large Whaler and Windsurfer brands in 1983. These had a wooden boom with a square cross-section - really hard to grip, lots of blisters. I moved up to a Bic 210S with dagger-board in 1987, then a slalom Bic Astro Rock in 1991, which I regret selling. Haven't really windsurfed since 1995 (except for a trip to Aruba - the huts) but would like to get back into it or try wing foiling. I don't know what would make sense to buy...another older board or these squashed short, wide, fat ones being offered today for a lot of $$. I don't get it...isn't there a market for slim pointy boards anymore? What's the pros/cons?
I'm 43 and I started windsurfing in 1994, that board is not so old and not a racing machine... It was more a high wind fun board for choppy conditions...what's the point comparing with a +25lt board? Beside this the outline is much more sexy than larger and modern ones...and only 1 knot slower.
I have a F2 Starlit from 1985, pintail winger, shaped by Hoenscheid still in my cellar, best board I ever drove, the asymmetrical tracker fins sucked it in the curve like a race motorcycle, planing through jibes like a knife through butter, I guess board design did not make any progress since then...
I ride F2 Sputnik 290. It's extremely difficult for me, 3 meters long and 60 cm wide, but I love it. Very similar to f2 that was in the recording, only it is blue not purple.
Perhaps the oldest jp board. My old gear ( sunset race and exstasy) are in good condition. But i changed also to new gear! The feeling of ride is so much different…. Nice vid!🤙🏻🤙🏻
That did not seem like a similar comparison. I think you need both boards to have the same volume for a fair comparison. I mean I don't know what you were expecting to see - the smaller board doesn't do so well in the lulls.
Great video as always! I find the opposite and have always heard it as well: a newer, wider board with same volume as an older narrower board will sail much "bigger" than the old board. So I would think comparing a smaller, newer board vs slightly larger old board. Ie. 90 liter new board vs 105 liter old board would be a great comparison. Looked like there was a world cup Sputnik in your store that might fit the bill
@@Nico_GER7 OK cool, I'm pretty interested in the outcomes here (as a 1980s windsufer!), and really like that you are getting into this with the video but I just can't get my head around that logic. Surely technology has improved and designs have improved meaning that you can have two boards of the same volume, one old one new, and the new board should work better? Otherwise just get a bigger old board and win! Come on dude we need a part 2!
Habe auch noch so ein altes, war mein erstes schmales Board -F2 Wizzard 268cm 63cm 113L -ja komplett anderes Feeling, Schräglage bis Haare fast im Wasser liegen beim Gleiten, Vollgas Gleiten im hohem Chop sogar ohne Fußsschlaufen möglich und dabei noch Tasse Kaffee trinken können so smooth, irgendwie komplett relaxt. Fahrbar von 4.2 bis 7.4 Segeln, dümpeln und Schotstart geht auch -also totaler Allrounder.
I bet if you would have put the back straps in the proper outer race positions, you would have managed 2kn faster, and gone faster than the new JP! Or was that video censored/cancelled!? 😁
Nice video Nico, I used to own this exact board, not really freeride though. Fast and lively imho, and this old fart's pb, is some 72km/h😅 on this very board...
I still use old boards for the simple reason, they are cheap. I have only just got back into windsurfing after a 35 year break. New boards are so expensive. To me it’s all about getting on the water and having fun. And the old boards certainly are fun 🤙🏼
I'm 25, windsurfing for 6 months and personally the older boards have always been more fun and responsive to me coming from a surfing background Personal favorite board is an old, yellow F2 277 A beautiful board, looks like a racecar and when matched with an old 3.7m Neil pryde core... it comes so alive in anything above 15knots Just climes out the water and flies like a bird
I read the 15 first comments and will write basically the same : 54, windsurfing since 1979, riding an 94 Naish Vector (250€ online) and riding also JP, Fanatic, the things are more complicated than being obviously in favor of newer boards. Older boards are more responsive yes often, and once you have the speed, they jibe more easily. Narrow boards behave better in chops yes, and I remember talking with a windsurf shop manager looking at me like if I was totally out of my mind saying the old Naish Vector jibes "better" (effortless) than modern large boards, even if you loose planning quicker on the outter curve for sure. So all in all, for average riders, buy these old boards for 10 times less money than newer ones, they're built like tanks and still get you on the water for nothing. Maybe the rule would be to take 10 liters more than you would on modern boards, but otherwise, they still rock big time !
The advantage of the older narrow shapes would not be experienced in the flat water conditions that Nico was sailing in. Carrying speed in rough, choppy, bumpy conditions is where boards like that old JP really shine. My old F2 Axxis 258 was a similar shape that really excelled in high wind choppy conditions.
“Oldest board he could find” 😂😂😂 He should come to my house. I don’t have my old “Windsurfer One Design” from 1984 anymore. But I definitely still have a “Mistral Stinger” from 1992 up in the garage rafters. think there might be an old “Mistral Ecstasy” from the mid 90’s behind a couple old motorcycles in the shed. But it would be like a game of “Jenga” to get back there. 2 old JP boards…why I keep old delaminated boards is a mystery. I probably have 20 old windsurfing boards under the house. I think the centipedes have built a civilization in there. When I die, my kids will probably just burn the place down and start from scratch. Easier than cleaning up.
I have one and it's almost impossible to sail. I sometimes try to sail it just to see what the talent of yesteryear had to deal with. You're either going like a bat out of hell.....or sinking like a brick. There's no schlogging in between. It's almost a speed needle. I bet old Nico couldn't even ride one.
First board was the E-Rock. In retrospect the E-Rock might be the most lasting design of all the 35 years of wind toys as I rode that thing forever in so many conditions
I am 52 and have been windsurfing for last 40 years so I have tried all kinds of boards. Used to sail f2 bullit 115 and that board was so versitale and I had great fun with it for years, then I have switched to f2 axxis 261 85l and it was fantastic bump and jump slalom board for middle and high winds. After that f2 sputnik 270, very fast and very tecnhical and then I got to more modern slalom boards which are quite easier, more comfortable and have broader range of use for sure.
"modern slalom boards which are quite easier, more comfortable and have broader range of use for sure", guess I better upgrade. Just dragged my old gear out of storage a few months ago and started sailing again, at 66. Had some nice sessions on the OBX of NC.
I bought a new F2 Sputnik 275, 95 liter, back in 1994. What a ride...what a feeling. Never sailed a board since that gave my that good feeling. Something with that rockerline/bottomshape, made that board special.
For me, 66 yr old guy JP is a "new" brand. And any board with the term *'Freeride'* printed on it is kind of the new generation. When was the term Freeride introduced, around 2000 ? Windsurfing started around 1976 ? In the mid 90's there was the most stupid period in windsurfing ; new *"No Nose"* designed boards with fatty backs and pointed noses (menhir shape), and the widest part of the board way back of the mast position... Luckily, that fashion went away.... Did I see a Mistral Screamer in the rack? That was my favorite board, around the 2000's, me thinks.. THE most succesful board of the late 80's early 90's was the F2 SUNSET of course. The original all around slalom board. Love your vids, Nico!
I used to sail a Bic Presto in Freeride conditions and a Tiga 260 in bump and jump. Never needed a wave board, but did enjoy the Mistral Eruption. I have since gotten racier shapes from Bic and Tiga, with my favorite being the Tiga HyperX 115. I have a Bic Blast and RRD wavecult 93 for very windy days. However, for the last 2 years, I have used my Slingshot Dialer in most conditions with a 76 or 84 size foil.
Did you ever try "drops" nomex carbon prepeg PWA Series 278cm. 6kgs of pure joy and speed. Length 281 ! Width 56cm and 108 litres. That thing is a rocket with the correct fin. Extremely Stiff - Points upwind incredibly well and never stops accelerating. I can barely use it anymore in high winds it's so fast. (and I'm getting older ...). It's true that modern boards are far easier because of the volume and width but when you get an old school board going full chat ...... nothing compares. Unfortunately he is sponsored ny JP, so he felt "obliged" to go with a JP board and he would NEVER say that an older design was the better design. In this case it wasn't as they are not in the same category.
@@IceAce1 That’s the one I had as well. I wasn’t very good on it as I was fairly new to windsurfing at the time and I hurt myself a couple of times on it.
@@damianketcham Ouch, ambitious, very steep learning curve as a beginner. I know what you mean with hard to gybe. I learned on bigger and newer boards, then got a second hand 1st gen Sunset Slalom for the 25+ knot days. Difficult enough for me. :) After each session on it, going back to bigger made gybing really easy.
surfboard technology has not changed significantly over the last 20 years. Light wind boards are obviously much different but a 20 years old 75liter waveboard is basically not all that different from today's board.
Hola Nico, tengo 59 años y he navegado todo. Creo que la condicion de test no era la mejor. Y no veo la comparacion de una tabla de 85L a 111L . La tabla para testear era la Sputnik F2 100L o 110L o simil. La sputnik 280 era la tabla buscada en esa epoca, era la tabla top de Bjorn ganaba todo. Ahi vi una 275, tal vez esa era ''la tabla''. Muy rapida. SIn duda la evolucion del windsurf ha sido tremenda, para bien. Pero con mucho chopy no son tan malas. Rukovsky en otro video ha corrido con slalom antiguos y comparado lo moderno. Saludos de Argentina.
Hi Nico, nice video and idea. Just 2 years ago I changed from a 1999 Fanatic Bee 260 (85L) to 2021 JP FSW 94. Honestly the Bee is mich lighter than the FSW, even the FSW has been the lighter version. My impression ist similar, the new board is easier and has more control, but If you habebthe skills the Bee is even better in jibes, especially If you want to keep planing. Also early planing the Bee is Not worse than the FSW, even with 10L less and using the same sail. The benefit for me with the FSW is the width which allows me to use larger fins and sails. So at the end the range gets wider. For your test maybe a flater sail would have worked better with the old board. Good luck for Pozo now. Jochen
That's exactly the size and shape board I had in that late 70s but mine was in fiberglass and l could plane in 11knots the max speed l could get was 25knots lt ended up being the board l used all the time. Sadly I'm just too old now.
Nice to see many of us ‘older’ windsurfing people about and still being enthusiastic about our sport after the diversion to kite surfing, wing foiling, windsurf foiling. 😁👍
I used to have that f2 Sputnik on the museum rack. It was awesome - fastest thing on the water at the time. Would love to see a comparison with a modern slalom board.
Great stuff Nico.... exactly what we want to see...but they didn't advice you on a fair comparison...you should have got a Mistral Flow 103 or F2 Thommen 270 or a Naish Enduro etc...etc..so many better alternatives for a test....please ask me next time...😊 by the way they had a similar Jp at the surfcenter in Devils bay Karpathos a couple years ago, for show on a fence, and when I asked if i could try it out on a day with about 30 knots,they looked at me like i was crazy 😂😂...but i knew it would have been perfect in those choppy conditions 😊 keep up the good work with your videos Cheers from Sweden
Well-produced and fun to watch, thanks for that. Although for an actual comparative test I think the conditions were too easy. Anything sails nicely at 25-30 knots on super-flat water. Taking it out in the chop or small waves would reveal more differences. Ideally you would also allow the rider to get used to the board and adjust his technique. But I understand that would take way too much time of course. Funny to see how close the measure speeds actually were!
Love old but decent gear videos like this. I myself still have a Bic Veloce that is older then me. Its narrow, reasonably fast and indestructible but o so hard on the ankles :D
Interesting video Nico. I sailed similar boards and have a Copello 270 slalom which is heading to a new home tomorrow. Good fun but as you say the modern kit is so much more balanced.
Wow that board reminds my of my mistral screamer. It was yellow/purple and maybe even less wide then the jp you were shredding. It felt like a missile and i even liked the pointy nose with a redicilous amount of scoop. I could really lock it in and piont it wherever i wanted to go, fast. Oh if i only had a chance to ride that board again… I would probably think: what a piece of crap. (Still fun though)
I have an older Tiga 265 bump and jump, 75 litres made of polyethylene, ie washing up bowl plastic very heavyand bends. Very thin , high nose. Where we sail in Langebaan South Africa, get terrible chop, 30 knots against a 5 knot tide. In these conditions the old board is so much smoother than modern. My 76l tabou 3S becomes uncomfortable, old board isgo to board
Driving down the highway 1995 I saw a white flash in my rear view mirror as my Tiga Wave flew off my rooftop rack. It forever had a crack I was never able to repair. Used it a few times after that but it just kept gaining weight drinking water. Shocking to think it's still sitting 30 years later in some far away landfill and will be there forever
I prefer my fanatic bee(the green machine) To my not new but newer hypersonic. I find the bee comfortable in the chop were as I get knocked of balance with the wider hypersonic. Picked up the Bee for $50 at a swap it was my dream board when I was a teen and it got me back in the sport after a 20year break. And I wish I didn't pay out what I paid for the hypersonic and invested that into more new sails as the sails make a huge difference in progression. Hint Hint Nico you want to try some older sails I have some you can have. Catapult city.
48 years old and I always use my fanatic mega ray 276. Very old shape like me 😅. Pure "no nose" slalom. Construction carbon sandwich. I agree with you, modern shapes should be easier but so expensive. Always a pleasure yours videos 👍
I am still riding a 69 liter yellow JP wave board made in 1999, and I love it. Works great, and I am faster than anyone that I am out on the water with. I never want a board with two rear footstraps.
Nice video. Why didnt you use the outboard strap positions on the old board? I think you might have been more comfortable and gone faster. Id love to see you testing the f2 sputnik. I suspect the main advantage of newer boards is more low end drive off the fin, which helps in the lulls and going upwind.
I spent my childhood dreaming about windsurfing on most the boards in this shop, reading and re-reading every Windsurf magazine to see what reviews they had! Still remember this purple Mistral board and thinking that I would be like Robby on the Naish RIP video in the epic slalom session in Kailua bay, the Sputnik, that yellow Axxis at the back (almost bought the red one!) and the super cool F2 wave board with the dragon on it if I ever became a wave rider. So many memories!
I don't know exactly, but the fin is I think of the line which was presented and develop beside Björn Dunkerbeck himself. But he was on board with Peter Thommens F2 world cup edition boards. ( or was it only the design and high end custom mades for him?).... i don't know but this blue grey fin was very expensive and is not original for this board. Nice competition I think. Sorry I forgot the name of this fin line. It was presented in the surf magazine with advertising👍
Sorry Nico, aber das war ein Vergleich Äpfel gegen Birnen bei fast 30 Litern Volumen Differenz. Du sagst ja selber, daß es fast zu wenig Wind für das alte Brett war, insoweit ist eine Speed Differenz von knapp einem Knoten zugunsten des Dickschiffes eher deutlich eine Niederlage des neuen Bretts. Fair wäre maximal eine Differenz von 5 Litern gewesen und genau da hätte (wohl nicht nur) mich auch die Gewichtsdifferenz brennend interessiert. Mal ganz abgesehen von der Schlaufenbestückung als 3er innen. Guck mal gegen Minute 9 rein, da liegt das Board absolut stabil ohne Wackler im Wasser, mehr Kontrolle geht doch wohl nicht mehr. Nicht alles alte ist schlecht, nur weil die Industrie und was angeblich besseres verkaufen will. In 46 Jahren windsurfen habe ich so ziemlich alles mitgemacht und eben nicht alles ist eine Verbesserung. Deshalb gibt's von mir heute mal einen 👎🏼
Thx a lot for the video Nico ! ❤ I have jus a small question please if you allow. How we can choose the right volume for free wave ride still, according to our weight. For constable use ?! What the perfect balance between a sinker and big board.
As someone else said, the whole setup of the 85 is more choppy/wave oriented. Also, volume are too much different. Everything, even that wood table you rode a while ago, will do "ok" in perfect flat water. Length will for sure be helpful to adsorb chop....I am 100% sure that the Supersport won't be as much comfortable in rough water as the old 85: less eve, less rocker, more width=more harsh ride
@@Acrowat40 It's a problem isn't it ! Almost 4000 EUR for a good set up brand new ! I look for good old boards on the second hand market and recycle them. That way I can sail a whole range of boards for a fraction of the price. My current favourites are : AirInside 260/72 - 6.5kgs from 2000. Just as easy to sail and as fast as modern board and far far stronger - epoxy, nomex & prepeg Carbon with no foam interior. Very stiff and very fast. I haven't seen anyone faster where I sail and they all seem to have the latest modern boards (Hence the AirInside second hand).
I swear by my 2.68m 93L Mistral Screamer, of this generation. Takes a 7m sail. 4 runs on GPS, all topping 30knots speed. Like a knife through chop. Smooth fast gybes. Easy water starts due to boom on back of board. Robust board on pebbles. On a standard freeride sail and fin. No board bag required. Top board!! I thank you.
Until a few years ago I still sailed with a 1999 F2 Ride 282 (115 lt). I had a lot of fun with it. In terms of speed, for me it was not inferior to the 2016 JP Magic Ride 111 that I use now. Gybing, on the other hand, is a lot easier with my current board.
That "quite beautiful" board is a pristine Wave Warrior!!! You should have bought it and tried it out, they are the best.... ever! O and the gybe "problem" (youngster hahaha!!) was because of your hind foot should be on the center line of the board, not the side ;)
These are not equivalent boards. The JP is set-up with a single back strap and is clearly set for wave sailing. The modern board has twin straps and is set-up for downwind slalom. The differences are obvious.
That’s not old……. When I were sailing (summer 1980) those things hadn’t been invented yet…. It was a polyethylene plank and a wooden boom…. You were lucky…..
I am, still, now and then ,using my 1986 F2 sunset slalom. the first slalom board. super fast. Comparing new and old boards is like comparing old skis with carving skies.
71 yr old male who used to ride a Mistral Hookipa 85L when the wind blew, but also a Mistral Superlight and a Mistral Take-Off (which was lousy jibing), back in the 80's.
I still use some similar board, a Fanatic Bee 260 with 85l from 1999. You need a lot of wind and it's more difficult to jibe than modern boards. But it still works and I have fun with it on windy days.
That's a sinker, no? I used to ride a Fanatic board from the 90's (wish I could remember the name, I loved it!) it was about 280 in length, but had enough volume that I could sail it back in offshore winds, whilst the others on sinkers, were up to their knees in water.
Nico. I have a Cobra slalom 270 (270x52x90liter) in my garage. The fastest productionboard of 1994. In 2008 I reached 64 km/h with it with an old Gaastra Courseslalom pro 5.2. I know. Not your trademarks (sadly😊). You may try the Cobra if you want.
Very Nice Video,,,, Congrats for your work and your ideas on this nice Winsdsurf´s expiriences... The windsurf is a Life... I love Windsurf and your videos are pure inspiration. I tried wind foil, and i return to winsurf and wind foil ( The winsurf for me is the best )... Thanks, lots of Thanks Nico...
Hello my friend i m not sure i all understand all wat u say sorry i m french...i love u its my first JP ! I have the 270 but,shark noose...its a fuking gun m'y Friend 😊 ...i canot loose this bord becose she have no limite speed if its flat...in 50 knots she have no limite speed !😍 ... juste you and your balls ! Just a gun to exterminate concurrence 😂. Ton pied de mât mon ami tu l'as réglé pour une board récente ! pour ça fallait le caller plus devant ! T'aurais eu accès à la 5 et 6 ème vitesse !(This board IS a fucking rs6. Your réglage wasnt good too attempt a top speed with her !) ...Come in France 🤣i show u😘🙂
That board wasn't ever intended for a full race rig, it'd be interesting to see how it went with a modern v8 or RAF sail... It was actually quite impressive how well it did with the racing rig
The coincidence of me digging my F2 Thommen 285 out of the basement earlier today, in mint condition, and then stumbling on this video tonight :) I have to try a newer board sometime, but man, that WorldCup Edition Sputnik is such a nice board paired with a 7.1 or a 5.7 that I'm in no rush to upgrade. Friend of mine who has the latest and greatest told me the newer construction methods are nowhere as sophisticated as what we had in the '90s, and are even heavier. Not sure how true that is, as I haven't kept up since F2 disappeared, and my race sponsorship with it. I think next I'll dig out my Lightning Race and the old 8.4 sail and go beat up some J/24s going upwind on the lake :)
I had bought the 1986 WC Race, the one with the narrower daggerboard. In races, I always felt inferior to the 1987 models with the broader carbon fiber daggerboard and fin going upwind in light conditions. I finally could purchase the 1987 WC race including 7.5m2 rig three years ago for €250. Upgraded to 9.5m2 NP sail, and it became my most sailed board. We rarely have more than 15kn of wind in southern Germany.
Very interesting. I am 48 years old experienced "old school" windsurfer. Doing lay down gybes and having fun but still on pretty old gear. I am looking into getting up-to-date with my gear. This is my history: 1986 started windsurfing 10 years of age on my uncles Dufour Wing in Sweden where I live. 4 meter board with a rounded bottom and triangular shaped sail with 2,7 meter long boom (!). 1988 bought my first windsurfin gear. A "Surfpartner Airlaker 330". 5,5 m2 mylar sail with 4 battens and a glass fibre mast 1990 Bought my first "funboard" a BIC Astro Rock.285 cm with 125 litres. A new world opened with full planing in footstraps and harness 🙂 1992 - 1999. Bot sure about the exact years but owned a Bic Techno 95 litre board. Great fun on that one 2000 - 2001 studied in Melbouren australia and bought a used Bic Vivace 270 slalom board. Very fast and "race style". 55 cm with and 90 litres i Think. Also bought an australian custom board "Strapper" from Torquay 2005 (I think) I bought my current board a JP Freestyle 105 litres (acually it is a freeride board with double straps ) and an AHD Wave 85 litres. NOW Looking at buying a 2022 Starboard futura 63 (99 litres). Cant really get over how ugly all modern boards are, looking like barn doors with its short and very wide size... :-).
Nico, I had F2 axxis 273 and 262 85 liters there where really fast and fun. Changed in 2001 with Tiga 259 96 liter and Naish 8.5 85 liter second hand. So I am still using booth with my max pleasure. By
I had an F2 board from 2000 and last year it broke, I've learned how to windsurf with board like you've shown in the video(but like 120liters) and I'm kinda regret my decision btw, very nice video.
I have what I’m pretty sure is the first single fin wave jumper in Australia, a Bob McTavish board from the early 80s. It is really fast, gun shape, make for big wave sailing. Totally different from the modern boards. It’s a “sinker” so you need to be able to do water starts, and at least 20 knots to sail it. Cheers Rustie.
I have a Fanatic Goya 85L bump and Jump. Use to by my main board at 72 kg, 20 yrs ago… Now I am on a modern boards 134l and 105l and I weigh now 90 kg. Needs to be very windy now to use my old Fanatic.😂
Ha ha - I still have that F2 board further back in the rack. I also have my old styrotec built, "Sailboards Maui" branded custom board from 1988 in the boat shed. Fun times from down under!
Hi to all of you. Thank you Nico, nice video. I am 54 years old and I really loved my Fantics, called Ultra Boa from 1986 and Ultra Mamba from 1989! I used the Mamba until 2014- my Speed Board in chopy conditions. Maximum control and really fast as hell. New boards of course have less weight and are easier to jibe, but thats it.... Boa, Mamba and even the Mosquito which I used not very often are slepping in my garage and the Mamba in my living room... They stay as good friends... 🤙
Thank you, beautiful! Would you happen to know which Fanatic board I owned? It was probably about 1994-1999? It was red, and about 280 in length, but more than enough volume to uphaul.
Thank you so much! That was the board I believe. I used a 5- m sails and it seemed super fast. (probably wasn't by today's standards) Could even up-haul and tack it!
I landed my first jibe on a Boa in the Berkeley marina. Still one of the most pleasant sensations of my life as it slipped smoothly through the chop, the sail flipping perfectly through the wind. I came out on a full plane, sheeted in and took off. That Boa was such an easy board to sail, wide, floaty and fun, soft rails. Indestructible too. Kinda wish I still had it.
Ho dovuto abbandonare windsurf nel 1988 per gravi motivi di salute. Fino ad allora usavo Mistral , solo sui laghi , che divertite. Mi hai fatto commuovere a vedere il video. Ero a bordo con te . Grazie 😢😊
71 year old with Goya one 106 great board for me 5.8 - 4.7. But when the wind is light I get out my 1992 Seatrend World Cup and my 6.5 and I feel untouchable.
I still have my Division II from 1984. Riding that downwind in decent swells with the centerboard up is by far the most difficult board I have ever sailed, far harder than a 6 foot surfboard.
you have 95 kg and use an 85L freeride. We didn't do that back in the day, we have had bigger boards as well. Also your have the footstap not in the last hole nor a double foot strap in the back, which is how this boards want to be sailed, this was the recommendation already back in the day. Therefore I don't think this is a fair comparison at all. Also you as a professional are very skilled, I never see anybody on the lake with a wide board mastering a jibe in the heavy chop. Whereas with more narrow boards they somehow get away with it... One thing that everybody doing sports should be aware of is to not compare himself with a professional. So the question is if your judgement of a good board is applicable to a normal guy?
Great video! I have a Mistral Classic 276 103l from 1999, it is a great board and fun in open water chop because it is narrow, fast and cuts through chop like it’s nobody’s business. It is the board I learnt on and I love the fact that it was such a challenge. In the gusty conditions we have in Malta it was tricky to keep it planing in the lulls, but in the wind it was fast, stable and very comfortable. As the boards evolved and got wider I eventually learnt how to gybe on the wider boards, but I still have the Classic, and even though I haven’t sailed it in a long time it would be difficult to let it go.
All my boards are older than that and all that thin. I've tried the modern boards, but they all feel like riding an oil tanker. I had a couple of Mistral Hawaii Naish, and I did cut the nose off because they would always get damaged. Both were still fantasic boards to blast around on, no matter what the conditions were. So easy to ride but you have to be super fast on the tack. The fin you used wasn't really a good match for the board.
Comparing those 2 boards is like comparing a road cycling bike to a mountain bike. You're not comparing apples to apples. The older 85 liter board size is where wave boards begin. That size of board needs a lot of nose to keep it from catching, have more rounded rails, and have a lot more bottom rocker to make it work in the waves. All of those traits will definitely make it slower. No one is going to take a 110 liter slalom board into waves that the 85 liter board would be perfectly happy in.
He said that although it says "Wave" on the logo, THIS is an old JP SLALOM board.
In other words he is comparing two apples. LOL.
Pity he limited himself to his sponsor "JP" because there are 30 year old SLALOM boards out there that are just as fast and maneuverable such as the AHD Pro Race series or the Diamond Race series of 1990's and 2000's.
@@Team33Team33 A freeride board was designed to be a 90% "do-all" board....not a great wave board....and not a great slalom board....but comfortable doing both. I believe that label on the board is the correct sticker. He can say that it's a slalom board to make it a slalom board comparison, but the amount of nose and rounded tail design boarders way more on a freewave/freeride concept. Hell...my old Bic Astro Rock would have done a lot better on the top end. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
@@tigertrap2269 I think your issue is either with Nico Prien or JP Boards. Not me.
Cheers.
Ok so it’s good for surf slalom then😎
@@bagomoyo Its a marketing thing. They will print what YOU want to THINK you are buying on the board to sell more of them.
Up to YOu to make a choice (Oh my god; I said the forbidden word: Choice).
Use your head and experience, test the board and find out for yourself.
If it's good for surf slalom then it should be called an "All Round" board.
Cheers mate.
Now you have a choice to make; a real one that will affect your life. LOL.
i'm on that yellow jp board, haven't really learn how to surf yet. This encourage me to have a start anew, thank you
Thanks. Very interesting to me. I am a 75 yr old windsurfer who is considering upgrading my old gear and buying the latest, greatest board. After watching this, I am more likely to do that. And, as a photographer, I have to say that fin-windsuring is still the most photogenic windsport. Yes, foil-windsurfing, kiteboarding and winging are cool. But to me, fin-windsurfing is still the most beautiful.
I think you need to at least TRY foiling. It's so much easier on the old bones !!! And of course continue fin sailing. As you said. THATS where the fun is.
Foiling isn't the same sport.
Thanks. So many choices, all good. I have friends who have moved to foil-windsurfing or winging, and they very much enjoy it. So those sports are on my radar, and I will take some lessons. But I think I want to fin-windsurf until it is obvious that my body can't handle it. Who knows, maybe fin-windsurfing will help me maintain strength and stamina. Sometimes physical stress is good.
Started wirt a sailboard 360 in 1987. Then a Vinta 315. Then a tiga wave , then proof boards gran canaria and Jp and back to cs proofboards today. Best boards
I'm younger and not your level (and definitely not Nico's) but I can only confirm: modern boards are MUCH easier. The plane easier, gybe easier and you can stay on water in high wind on a much bigger board than even in the late 90's. Up to about 20-25knts waterstart is not really necessary, which is perhaps not quite a pleasure for your back, but surely a blessing for the knees ;) I own both contemporary and old ones, and the only old one I regularly use is a raceboard.
@@grzegorzgorniewski6502 Same here. I use a raceboard and sometimes a D2 board when there is little wind for the fun.
Funboarding (as it was called back then) starts at 20kts with short boards !
Oldest board you could find, ehe? I could have given you a 1978 Ostermann Windglider. You could also have looked out for a Freerider-avant-la-lettre: a Bic Show, Windsurfer Rocket or Mistral Kailua.
Loved my old Mistral Screamer. Yup, that's how old I am....
Indeed! Still have one :)
I used to have a Mistral Screamer that was a great board..
I still have my 41yo Naish Gun with deep conclaves and a stretched narrow tail. It planes in 15 knots, jibes like a demon, and is still easily controlled in 40 knots (in PNG with a 2.8m sail).
When I was 18 my first board was a Fanatic Bee 294. It was fun !!
My first board was a 278 fanatic bee.
I had the blue one and later the green one with two fins
Suffering here. I was learning on an old as dirt fanatic fun/race 340 with center board sliding track. The base broke and I cannot find a new one. So now I am stuck wit a f² sunrise which is 105 L 😭 I literally just lay in the water wishing I can waterstart just for the exercise. Windsurfing is sooooo hard to get started in the states. It's not zero to hero here, it's zero to zero for years until you can find someone to ship a board(when I have the money nobody is shipping) or stumble on and affordable one locally. I dream of a jp magic to complete my zero to hero series that is now 2 years to long. 😢 I just started a separate savings account to get a new magic or equivalent. Packed away the gear till then. That is the true feeling of these old boards now.
Hello there from The Netherlands.. i'll ship one to you if you want. Very large second hand market here. Shipping will likely be quite expensive, however if you are up for it i'll make it hapen.
Mid-fifties dude here. My first ones were the large Whaler and Windsurfer brands in 1983. These had a wooden boom with a square cross-section - really hard to grip, lots of blisters. I moved up to a Bic 210S with dagger-board in 1987, then a slalom Bic Astro Rock in 1991, which I regret selling. Haven't really windsurfed since 1995 (except for a trip to Aruba - the huts) but would like to get back into it or try wing foiling. I don't know what would make sense to buy...another older board or these squashed short, wide, fat ones being offered today for a lot of $$. I don't get it...isn't there a market for slim pointy boards anymore? What's the pros/cons?
I'm 43 and I started windsurfing in 1994, that board is not so old and not a racing machine... It was more a high wind fun board for choppy conditions...what's the point comparing with a +25lt board? Beside this the outline is much more sexy than larger and modern ones...and only 1 knot slower.
I have a F2 Starlit from 1985, pintail winger, shaped by Hoenscheid still in my cellar, best board I ever drove, the asymmetrical tracker fins sucked it in the curve like a race motorcycle, planing through jibes like a knife through butter, I guess board design did not make any progress since then...
I ride F2 Sputnik 290. It's extremely difficult for me, 3 meters long and 60 cm wide, but I love it. Very similar to f2 that was in the recording, only it is blue not purple.
Perhaps the oldest jp board. My old gear ( sunset race and exstasy) are in good condition. But i changed also to new gear! The feeling of ride is so much different….
Nice vid!🤙🏻🤙🏻
That did not seem like a similar comparison. I think you need both boards to have the same volume for a fair comparison.
I mean I don't know what you were expecting to see - the smaller board doesn't do so well in the lulls.
Apparently not… that’s what we’ve been told. And that’s a bit the take away. Nowadays you ride with more volume.
Great video as always! I find the opposite and have always heard it as well: a newer, wider board with same volume as an older narrower board will sail much "bigger" than the old board. So I would think comparing a smaller, newer board vs slightly larger old board. Ie. 90 liter new board vs 105 liter old board would be a great comparison. Looked like there was a world cup Sputnik in your store that might fit the bill
@@Nico_GER7 OK cool, I'm pretty interested in the outcomes here (as a 1980s windsufer!), and really like that you are getting into this with the video but I just can't get my head around that logic.
Surely technology has improved and designs have improved meaning that you can have two boards of the same volume, one old one new, and the new board should work better? Otherwise just get a bigger old board and win!
Come on dude we need a part 2!
Haha, nice little movie. Like the old car!😉
Habe auch noch so ein altes, war mein erstes schmales Board -F2 Wizzard 268cm 63cm 113L -ja komplett anderes Feeling, Schräglage bis Haare fast im Wasser liegen beim Gleiten, Vollgas Gleiten im hohem Chop sogar ohne Fußsschlaufen möglich und dabei noch Tasse Kaffee trinken können so smooth, irgendwie komplett relaxt. Fahrbar von 4.2 bis 7.4 Segeln, dümpeln und Schotstart geht auch -also totaler Allrounder.
Dude you skipped through wave warrior???
Powerbox fin, that is definitely new school ;-)
Hi. I live in Habana, Cuba and I ride a Bic Core 148 L with strong wind and I can't imagine something faster 😂😂😂
Just spotted a wooden board…that someone engraved 83 on the stern. Maybe a Div 2. Can’t stop thinking I need to go scoop it up.
I bet if you would have put the back straps in the proper outer race positions, you would have managed 2kn faster, and gone faster than the new JP! Or was that video censored/cancelled!? 😁
The upturned nose is to help in waves and huge swells
Obviously, though it’s still way too high and long 😅
A surf shop sold me the F2 Axxis when I was 14 as a begginer's board. I will wave ride it one day...
Nice video Nico, I used to own this exact board, not really freeride though. Fast and lively imho, and this old fart's pb, is some 72km/h😅 on this very board...
That's what you would nowadays call a freestyle wave board. It's not a slalom board at all.
Naaaaa, you should have chosen Sputnik 275!! It is older than this, and is legendary
I have the same and still turns like a charm......I will never sell it..
The oldest board is a standard Windsurf Board with an uphaul that if you pull improperly the foot pod out. Early 80’s
I think he meant JP board...
Correct
But I have a video with an original windsurfer
I remember my “One Design”. It had the “brand new retractable dagger board”. Before that, you had to pull it out and wear it over your shoulder.
There was also a high wind dagger board.
Great content, thanks
Hi Nico you are my Model(Vorbild) for Windsurfing because im doing it and i wanted to know what the Name of the Song is by Kapitel Dancing.
You youngsters need to learn how to ride our older boards properly😅
I still use old boards for the simple reason, they are cheap. I have only just got back into windsurfing after a 35 year break. New boards are so expensive. To me it’s all about getting on the water and having fun. And the old boards certainly are fun 🤙🏼
I always say FUN IS FUN you don't always need the best new stuff! Unless your a pro competitor
Crazy how expensive they are now.
I agree I have newer Naish Titan board and find it is very easy to sink the front and back I don't remember this happening with older boards
New boards are paper-thin ding magnets.
I’m back to my 20 year boards because they’re just as good and will take a knock without springing a leak.
I still love my Sunset Slalom I bought when I was 16. Now I’m 52 and it looks still brand new. 😊
totally relate!
I'm 25, windsurfing for 6 months and personally the older boards have always been more fun and responsive to me coming from a surfing background
Personal favorite board is an old, yellow F2 277
A beautiful board, looks like a racecar and when matched with an old 3.7m Neil pryde core... it comes so alive in anything above 15knots
Just climes out the water and flies like a bird
I read the 15 first comments and will write basically the same : 54, windsurfing since 1979, riding an 94 Naish Vector (250€ online) and riding also JP, Fanatic, the things are more complicated than being obviously in favor of newer boards. Older boards are more responsive yes often, and once you have the speed, they jibe more easily. Narrow boards behave better in chops yes, and I remember talking with a windsurf shop manager looking at me like if I was totally out of my mind saying the old Naish Vector jibes "better" (effortless) than modern large boards, even if you loose planning quicker on the outter curve for sure. So all in all, for average riders, buy these old boards for 10 times less money than newer ones, they're built like tanks and still get you on the water for nothing. Maybe the rule would be to take 10 liters more than you would on modern boards, but otherwise, they still rock big time !
They used to work perfectly for me....And...They still do!
Exactly🤠
The advantage of the older narrow shapes would not be experienced in the flat water conditions that Nico was sailing in. Carrying speed in rough, choppy, bumpy conditions is where boards like that old JP really shine. My old F2 Axxis 258 was a similar shape that really excelled in high wind choppy conditions.
“Oldest board he could find” 😂😂😂 He should come to my house. I don’t have my old “Windsurfer One Design” from 1984 anymore. But I definitely still have a “Mistral Stinger” from 1992 up in the garage rafters. think there might be an old “Mistral Ecstasy” from the mid 90’s behind a couple old motorcycles in the shed. But it would be like a game of “Jenga” to get back there. 2 old JP boards…why I keep old delaminated boards is a mystery. I probably have 20 old windsurfing boards under the house. I think the centipedes have built a civilization in there. When I die, my kids will probably just burn the place down and start from scratch. Easier than cleaning up.
Mistral made some amazing boards!
Still got my carbon Mistral Screamer LCS😂
Still have my Stinger and Screamer Race XR in a shed. 😀
Still got Mistral Naish wave and Synchro!
He should go find an old vinta wave 270. I still choose my f2 axxis 261 over anything else unless I am renting 2023 gear in maui.
You need to try the sputnik.
They were really really quick even held the world record for a production board
Had sputnik 270, 85 litres and I used to be so agile I could tack it 😂😂
I have one and it's almost impossible to sail. I sometimes try to sail it just to see what the talent of yesteryear had to deal with. You're either going like a bat out of hell.....or sinking like a brick. There's no schlogging in between. It's almost a speed needle. I bet old Nico couldn't even ride one.
Hey I have older boards if you dare... Bic Astro rock and Electro rock...
First board was the E-Rock. In retrospect the E-Rock might be the most lasting design of all the 35 years of wind toys as I rode that thing forever in so many conditions
I am 52 and have been windsurfing for last 40 years so I have tried all kinds of boards. Used to sail f2 bullit 115 and that board was so versitale and I had great fun with it for years, then I have switched to f2 axxis 261 85l and it was fantastic bump and jump slalom board for middle and high winds. After that f2 sputnik 270, very fast and very tecnhical and then I got to more modern slalom boards which are quite easier, more comfortable and have broader range of use for sure.
I’ve had a Bullit 295, Axxis 278 and now Axxis 262 :)
F2 Boards and Neil Pryde Sails are an explosive combination and great fun for me always.
"modern slalom boards which are quite easier, more comfortable and have broader range of use for sure", guess I better upgrade. Just dragged my old gear out of storage a few months ago and started sailing again, at 66. Had some nice sessions on the OBX of NC.
I bought a new F2 Sputnik 275, 95 liter, back in 1994. What a ride...what a feeling. Never sailed a board since that gave my that good feeling. Something with that rockerline/bottomshape, made that board special.
@@carmeng.abengoa6670 Exactly! F2 Xantos 295 and V8 7,5m2 more or less 25 years old. Total fun and speed
For me, 66 yr old guy JP is a "new" brand. And any board with the term *'Freeride'* printed on it is kind of the new generation. When was the term Freeride introduced, around 2000 ? Windsurfing started around 1976 ?
In the mid 90's there was the most stupid period in windsurfing ; new *"No Nose"* designed boards with fatty backs and pointed noses (menhir shape), and the widest part of the board way back of the mast position... Luckily, that fashion went away....
Did I see a Mistral Screamer in the rack? That was my favorite board, around the 2000's, me thinks.. THE most succesful board of the late 80's early 90's was the F2 SUNSET of course. The original all around slalom board.
Love your vids, Nico!
I thought I saw a Mistral Screamer. First board I bought after using hubby’s board and getting told to be careful with it! 😀
I used to sail a Bic Presto in Freeride conditions and a Tiga 260 in bump and jump. Never needed a wave board, but did enjoy the Mistral Eruption. I have since gotten racier shapes from Bic and Tiga, with my favorite being the Tiga HyperX 115. I have a Bic Blast and RRD wavecult 93 for very windy days. However, for the last 2 years, I have used my Slingshot Dialer in most conditions with a 76 or 84 size foil.
Yes, the yellow board is not what I would call "old".
Did you ever try "drops" nomex carbon prepeg PWA Series 278cm. 6kgs of pure joy and speed. Length 281 ! Width 56cm and 108 litres. That thing is a rocket with the correct fin.
Extremely Stiff - Points upwind incredibly well and never stops accelerating. I can barely use it anymore in high winds it's so fast. (and I'm getting older ...).
It's true that modern boards are far easier because of the volume and width but when you get an old school board going full chat ...... nothing compares.
Unfortunately he is sponsored ny JP, so he felt "obliged" to go with a JP board and he would NEVER say that an older design was the better design. In this case it wasn't as they are not in the same category.
Everyone had those screamers back in the day!
I had an F2 Sputnik.
Very fast and hard to gybe.
Wow! Everyone wanted one of those!
and the one they have is the Sputnik World Cup Edition even. 😲
@@IceAce1
That’s the one I had as well.
I wasn’t very good on it as I was fairly new to windsurfing at the time and I hurt myself a couple of times on it.
@@damianketcham Ouch, ambitious, very steep learning curve as a beginner. I know what you mean with hard to gybe. I learned on bigger and newer boards, then got a second hand 1st gen Sunset Slalom for the 25+ knot days. Difficult enough for me. :) After each session on it, going back to bigger made gybing really easy.
surfboard technology has not changed significantly over the last 20 years. Light wind boards are obviously much different but a 20 years old 75liter waveboard is basically not all that different from today's board.
Hola Nico, tengo 59 años y he navegado todo. Creo que la condicion de test no era la mejor. Y no veo la comparacion de una tabla de 85L a 111L . La tabla para testear era la Sputnik F2 100L o 110L o simil.
La sputnik 280 era la tabla buscada en esa epoca, era la tabla top de Bjorn ganaba todo. Ahi vi una 275, tal vez esa era ''la tabla''. Muy rapida. SIn duda la evolucion del windsurf ha sido tremenda, para bien. Pero con mucho chopy no son tan malas. Rukovsky en otro video ha corrido con slalom antiguos y comparado lo moderno. Saludos de Argentina.
Hi Nico, nice video and idea. Just 2 years ago I changed from a 1999 Fanatic Bee 260 (85L) to 2021 JP FSW 94. Honestly the Bee is mich lighter than the FSW, even the FSW has been the lighter version. My impression ist similar, the new board is easier and has more control, but If you habebthe skills the Bee is even better in jibes, especially If you want to keep planing. Also early planing the Bee is Not worse than the FSW, even with 10L less and using the same sail. The benefit for me with the FSW is the width which allows me to use larger fins and sails. So at the end the range gets wider.
For your test maybe a flater sail would have worked better with the old board.
Good luck for Pozo now.
Jochen
That's exactly the size and shape board I had in that late 70s but mine was in fiberglass and l could plane in 11knots the max speed l could get was 25knots lt ended up being the board l used all the time. Sadly I'm just too old now.
Nice to see many of us ‘older’ windsurfing people about and still being enthusiastic about our sport after the diversion to kite surfing, wing foiling, windsurf foiling. 😁👍
I used to have that f2 Sputnik on the museum rack. It was awesome - fastest thing on the water at the time. Would love to see a comparison with a modern slalom board.
Great stuff Nico.... exactly what we want to see...but they didn't advice you on a fair comparison...you should have got a Mistral Flow 103 or F2 Thommen 270 or a Naish Enduro etc...etc..so many better alternatives for a test....please ask me next time...😊 by the way they had a similar Jp at the surfcenter in Devils bay Karpathos a couple years ago, for show on a fence, and when I asked if i could try it out on a day with about 30 knots,they looked at me like i was crazy 😂😂...but i knew it would have been perfect in those choppy conditions 😊 keep up the good work with your videos Cheers from Sweden
Well-produced and fun to watch, thanks for that. Although for an actual comparative test I think the conditions were too easy. Anything sails nicely at 25-30 knots on super-flat water. Taking it out in the chop or small waves would reveal more differences. Ideally you would also allow the rider to get used to the board and adjust his technique. But I understand that would take way too much time of course. Funny to see how close the measure speeds actually were!
Love old but decent gear videos like this. I myself still have a Bic Veloce that is older then me. Its narrow, reasonably fast and indestructible but o so hard on the ankles :D
Interesting video Nico. I sailed similar boards and have a Copello 270 slalom which is heading to a new home tomorrow. Good fun but as you say the modern kit is so much more balanced.
Fahr mal an den Stausee Bautzen surfen, da siehst du Rentner auf Brettern und Segeln rumfahren, dagegen ist das Board hier brandneu :D.
Wow that board reminds my of my mistral screamer.
It was yellow/purple and maybe even less wide then the jp you were shredding.
It felt like a missile and i even liked the pointy nose with a redicilous amount of scoop.
I could really lock it in and piont it wherever i wanted to go, fast.
Oh if i only had a chance to ride that board again…
I would probably think: what a piece of crap.
(Still fun though)
I learnt to carve gybe and chop hop on a Mistral Screamer 268
I have an older Tiga 265 bump and jump, 75 litres made of polyethylene, ie washing up bowl plastic very heavyand bends. Very thin , high nose. Where we sail in Langebaan South Africa, get terrible chop, 30 knots against a 5 knot tide. In these conditions the old board is so much smoother than modern. My 76l tabou 3S becomes uncomfortable, old board isgo to board
Driving down the highway 1995 I saw a white flash in my rear view mirror as my Tiga Wave flew off my rooftop rack. It forever had a crack I was never able to repair. Used it a few times after that but it just kept gaining weight drinking water. Shocking to think it's still sitting 30 years later in some far away landfill and will be there forever
I prefer my fanatic bee(the green machine) To my not new but newer hypersonic. I find the bee comfortable in the chop were as I get knocked of balance with the wider hypersonic. Picked up the Bee for $50 at a swap it was my dream board when I was a teen and it got me back in the sport after a 20year break. And I wish I didn't pay out what I paid for the hypersonic and invested that into more new sails as the sails make a huge difference in progression. Hint Hint Nico you want to try some older sails I have some you can have. Catapult city.
48 years old and I always use my fanatic mega ray 276. Very old shape like me 😅. Pure "no nose" slalom. Construction carbon sandwich. I agree with you, modern shapes should be easier but so expensive. Always a pleasure yours videos 👍
I am still riding a 69 liter yellow JP wave board made in 1999, and I love it. Works great, and I am faster than anyone that I am out on the water with. I never want a board with two rear footstraps.
Nice video. Why didnt you use the outboard strap positions on the old board? I think you might have been more comfortable and gone faster. Id love to see you testing the f2 sputnik.
I suspect the main advantage of newer boards is more low end drive off the fin, which helps in the lulls and going upwind.
I love the spray of the Yellow One..
I spent my childhood dreaming about windsurfing on most the boards in this shop, reading and re-reading every Windsurf magazine to see what reviews they had! Still remember this purple Mistral board and thinking that I would be like Robby on the Naish RIP video in the epic slalom session in Kailua bay, the Sputnik, that yellow Axxis at the back (almost bought the red one!) and the super cool F2 wave board with the dragon on it if I ever became a wave rider. So many memories!
I don't know exactly, but the fin is I think of the line which was presented and develop beside Björn Dunkerbeck himself. But he was on board with Peter Thommens F2 world cup edition boards. ( or was it only the design and high end custom mades for him?).... i don't know but this blue grey fin was very expensive and is not original for this board.
Nice competition I think. Sorry I forgot the name of this fin line. It was presented in the surf magazine with advertising👍
The brandname of the fin is "North Shore Maui Hawaii" fins. Premium segment of serial production fins at that time, I think.
Sorry Nico, aber das war ein Vergleich Äpfel gegen Birnen bei fast 30 Litern Volumen Differenz.
Du sagst ja selber, daß es fast zu wenig Wind für das alte Brett war, insoweit ist eine Speed Differenz von knapp einem Knoten zugunsten des Dickschiffes eher deutlich eine Niederlage des neuen Bretts. Fair wäre maximal eine Differenz von 5 Litern gewesen und genau da hätte (wohl nicht nur) mich auch die Gewichtsdifferenz brennend interessiert. Mal ganz abgesehen von der Schlaufenbestückung als 3er innen. Guck mal gegen Minute 9 rein, da liegt das Board absolut stabil ohne Wackler im Wasser, mehr Kontrolle geht doch wohl nicht mehr.
Nicht alles alte ist schlecht, nur weil die Industrie und was angeblich besseres verkaufen will.
In 46 Jahren windsurfen habe ich so ziemlich alles mitgemacht und eben nicht alles ist eine Verbesserung.
Deshalb gibt's von mir heute mal einen 👎🏼
i have jp 91 liter freestyle wave full wode and is the best super fast and is from 2000 something like that
Thx a lot for the video Nico ! ❤
I have jus a small question please if you allow.
How we can choose the right volume for free wave ride still, according to our weight.
For constable use ?!
What the perfect balance between a sinker and big board.
As someone else said, the whole setup of the 85 is more choppy/wave oriented. Also, volume are too much different.
Everything, even that wood table you rode a while ago, will do "ok" in perfect flat water. Length will for sure be helpful to adsorb chop....I am 100% sure that the Supersport won't be as much comfortable in rough water as the old 85: less eve, less rocker, more width=more harsh ride
I like this episode! Because almost no one i know is able to buy the new stuff.
I haven't windsurfed for years - just looked at the cost of board and rig!
@@Acrowat40 It's a problem isn't it ! Almost 4000 EUR for a good set up brand new !
I look for good old boards on the second hand market and recycle them.
That way I can sail a whole range of boards for a fraction of the price. My current favourites are : AirInside 260/72 - 6.5kgs from 2000.
Just as easy to sail and as fast as modern board and far far stronger - epoxy, nomex & prepeg Carbon with no foam interior.
Very stiff and very fast.
I haven't seen anyone faster where I sail and they all seem to have the latest modern boards (Hence the AirInside second hand).
I swear by my 2.68m 93L Mistral Screamer, of this generation. Takes a 7m sail. 4 runs on GPS, all topping 30knots speed. Like a knife through chop. Smooth fast gybes. Easy water starts due to boom on back of board. Robust board on pebbles. On a standard freeride sail and fin. No board bag required. Top board!! I thank you.
Until a few years ago I still sailed with a 1999 F2 Ride 282 (115 lt). I had a lot of fun with it. In terms of speed, for me it was not inferior to the 2016 JP Magic Ride 111 that I use now. Gybing, on the other hand, is a lot easier with my current board.
That "quite beautiful" board is a pristine Wave Warrior!!! You should have bought it and tried it out, they are the best.... ever! O and the gybe "problem" (youngster hahaha!!) was because of your hind foot should be on the center line of the board, not the side ;)
Agree with this, foot in the centre, just using your toes to pressure and it glides through the chop on a smooth arc.
These are not equivalent boards. The JP is set-up with a single back strap and is clearly set for wave sailing. The modern board has twin straps and is set-up for downwind slalom. The differences are obvious.
That’s not old…….
When I were sailing (summer 1980) those things hadn’t been invented yet…. It was a polyethylene plank and a wooden boom….
You were lucky…..
I am, still, now and then ,using my 1986 F2 sunset slalom. the first slalom board. super fast. Comparing new and old boards is like comparing old skis with carving skies.
71 yr old male who used to ride a Mistral Hookipa 85L when the wind blew, but also a Mistral Superlight and a Mistral Take-Off (which was lousy jibing), back in the 80's.
I still use some similar board, a Fanatic Bee 260 with 85l from 1999. You need a lot of wind and it's more difficult to jibe than modern boards. But it still works and I have fun with it on windy days.
That's a sinker, no? I used to ride a Fanatic board from the 90's (wish I could remember the name, I loved it!) it was about 280 in length, but had enough volume that I could sail it back in offshore winds, whilst the others on sinkers, were up to their knees in water.
I used the same Bee, See my comment to the Video. Amazing board if you have the right skills.
Nico. I have a Cobra slalom 270 (270x52x90liter) in my garage. The fastest productionboard of 1994. In 2008 I reached 64 km/h with it with an old Gaastra Courseslalom pro 5.2. I know. Not your trademarks (sadly😊). You may try the Cobra if you want.
Very Nice Video,,,, Congrats for your work and your ideas on this nice Winsdsurf´s expiriences... The windsurf is a Life... I love Windsurf and your videos are pure inspiration. I tried wind foil, and i return to winsurf and wind foil ( The winsurf for me is the best )...
Thanks, lots of Thanks Nico...
Hello my friend i m not sure i all understand all wat u say sorry i m french...i love u its my first JP ! I have the 270 but,shark noose...its a fuking gun m'y Friend 😊 ...i canot loose this bord becose she have no limite speed if its flat...in 50 knots she have no limite speed !😍 ... juste you and your balls !
Just a gun to exterminate concurrence 😂.
Ton pied de mât mon ami tu l'as réglé pour une board récente ! pour ça fallait le caller plus devant ! T'aurais eu accès à la 5 et 6 ème vitesse !(This board IS a fucking rs6. Your réglage wasnt good too attempt a top speed with her !) ...Come in France 🤣i show u😘🙂
That board wasn't ever intended for a full race rig, it'd be interesting to see how it went with a modern v8 or RAF sail... It was actually quite impressive how well it did with the racing rig
The coincidence of me digging my F2 Thommen 285 out of the basement earlier today, in mint condition, and then stumbling on this video tonight :)
I have to try a newer board sometime, but man, that WorldCup Edition Sputnik is such a nice board paired with a 7.1 or a 5.7 that I'm in no rush to upgrade.
Friend of mine who has the latest and greatest told me the newer construction methods are nowhere as sophisticated as what we had in the '90s, and are even heavier.
Not sure how true that is, as I haven't kept up since F2 disappeared, and my race sponsorship with it.
I think next I'll dig out my Lightning Race and the old 8.4 sail and go beat up some J/24s going upwind on the lake :)
I had bought the 1986 WC Race, the one with the narrower daggerboard. In races, I always felt inferior to the 1987 models with the broader carbon fiber daggerboard and fin going upwind in light conditions. I finally could purchase the 1987 WC race including 7.5m2 rig three years ago for €250. Upgraded to 9.5m2 NP sail, and it became my most sailed board. We rarely have more than 15kn of wind in southern Germany.
Very interesting. I am 48 years old experienced "old school" windsurfer. Doing lay down gybes and having fun but still on pretty old gear. I am looking into getting up-to-date with my gear. This is my history:
1986 started windsurfing 10 years of age on my uncles Dufour Wing in Sweden where I live. 4 meter board with a rounded bottom and triangular shaped sail with 2,7 meter long boom (!).
1988 bought my first windsurfin gear. A "Surfpartner Airlaker 330". 5,5 m2 mylar sail with 4 battens and a glass fibre mast
1990 Bought my first "funboard" a BIC Astro Rock.285 cm with 125 litres. A new world opened with full planing in footstraps and harness 🙂
1992 - 1999. Bot sure about the exact years but owned a Bic Techno 95 litre board. Great fun on that one
2000 - 2001 studied in Melbouren australia and bought a used Bic Vivace 270 slalom board. Very fast and "race style". 55 cm with and 90 litres i Think. Also bought an australian custom board "Strapper" from Torquay
2005 (I think) I bought my current board a JP Freestyle 105 litres (acually it is a freeride board with double straps ) and an AHD Wave 85 litres.
NOW Looking at buying a 2022 Starboard futura 63 (99 litres). Cant really get over how ugly all modern boards are, looking like barn doors with its short and very wide size... :-).
Nico, I had F2 axxis 273 and 262 85 liters there where really fast and fun. Changed in 2001 with Tiga 259 96 liter and Naish 8.5 85 liter second hand. So I am still using booth with my max pleasure. By
I had an F2 board from 2000 and last year it broke, I've learned how to windsurf with board like you've shown in the video(but like 120liters) and I'm kinda regret my decision
btw, very nice video.
I have what I’m pretty sure is the first single fin wave jumper in Australia, a Bob McTavish board from the early 80s. It is really fast, gun shape, make for big wave sailing. Totally different from the modern boards. It’s a “sinker” so you need to be able to do water starts, and at least 20 knots to sail it. Cheers Rustie.
I have a Fanatic Goya 85L bump and Jump. Use to by my main board at 72 kg, 20 yrs ago… Now I am on a modern boards 134l and 105l and I weigh now 90 kg. Needs to be very windy now to use my old Fanatic.😂
the same for me I have 86l fanatic gecko from 20 years ago, still riding that one sometimes
Ha ha - I still have that F2 board further back in the rack. I also have my old styrotec built, "Sailboards Maui" branded custom board from 1988 in the boat shed. Fun times from down under!
Hi to all of you. Thank you Nico, nice video. I am 54 years old and I really loved my Fantics, called Ultra Boa from 1986 and Ultra Mamba from 1989! I used the Mamba until 2014- my Speed Board in chopy conditions. Maximum control and really fast as hell. New boards of course have less weight and are easier to jibe, but thats it.... Boa, Mamba and even the Mosquito which I used not very often are slepping in my garage and the Mamba in my living room... They stay as good friends... 🤙
Thank you, beautiful!
Would you happen to know which Fanatic board I owned?
It was probably about 1994-1999? It was red, and about 280 in length, but more than enough volume to uphaul.
@@GLOCKDPLUSFlowriders To me sounds like Fantatic Gecko...?
@@GLOCKDPLUSFlowridersRed one… It is a Bee 274. The first board I bought with my first self-earned money 😊.
Thank you so much! That was the board I believe.
I used a 5- m sails and it seemed super fast. (probably wasn't by today's standards)
Could even up-haul and tack it!
I landed my first jibe on a Boa in the Berkeley marina. Still one of the most pleasant sensations of my life as it slipped smoothly through the chop, the sail flipping perfectly through the wind. I came out on a full plane, sheeted in and took off. That Boa was such an easy board to sail, wide, floaty and fun, soft rails. Indestructible too. Kinda wish I still had it.
The surface of the fin is related to the área of the sail. Obviously, with more volume, you need a smaller sails to plan..
Ho dovuto abbandonare windsurf nel 1988 per gravi motivi di salute. Fino ad allora usavo Mistral , solo sui laghi , che divertite. Mi hai fatto commuovere a vedere il video. Ero a bordo con te . Grazie 😢😊
Nice video! Maybe you can race with someone, using the old board and the new board 😀
I rode white F2 Sputnik 265 till last year. I now have a Supersport 101 but still enjoy old style boards 🦖
71 year old with Goya one 106 great board for me 5.8 - 4.7. But when the wind is light I get out my 1992 Seatrend World Cup and my 6.5 and I feel untouchable.
I still have my Division II from 1984. Riding that downwind in decent swells with the centerboard up is by far the most difficult board I have ever sailed, far harder than a 6 foot surfboard.
you have 95 kg and use an 85L freeride. We didn't do that back in the day, we have had bigger boards as well. Also your have the footstap not in the last hole nor a double foot strap in the back, which is how this boards want to be sailed, this was the recommendation already back in the day. Therefore I don't think this is a fair comparison at all. Also you as a professional are very skilled, I never see anybody on the lake with a wide board mastering a jibe in the heavy chop. Whereas with more narrow boards they somehow get away with it... One thing that everybody doing sports should be aware of is to not compare himself with a professional. So the question is if your judgement of a good board is applicable to a normal guy?
You had a F2 Sputnik by that board. I understand sponsorship but it's not a fair comparison.
How can you compare an 84l sinker with a much bigger board?
Great video! I have a Mistral Classic 276 103l from 1999, it is a great board and fun in open water chop because it is narrow, fast and cuts through chop like it’s nobody’s business. It is the board I learnt on and I love the fact that it was such a challenge. In the gusty conditions we have in Malta it was tricky to keep it planing in the lulls, but in the wind it was fast, stable and very comfortable. As the boards evolved and got wider I eventually learnt how to gybe on the wider boards, but I still have the Classic, and even though I haven’t sailed it in a long time it would be difficult to let it go.
All my boards are older than that and all that thin. I've tried the modern boards, but they all feel like riding an oil tanker. I had a couple of Mistral Hawaii Naish, and I did cut the nose off because they would always get damaged. Both were still fantasic boards to blast around on, no matter what the conditions were. So easy to ride but you have to be super fast on the tack. The fin you used wasn't really a good match for the board.
What was the spot exactly? I m moving to the South of france est Leucate next year and this spot seems smooth !