was not aware they had been stripped of their siege unit status. that is a shame because it made them unique and those upgrades did help a bit. so now atty basically has 3 archers? weird
Technically they still are (Kronos/Helios stuff still works on them) but the fortress techs don't work on them anymore and they take bonus damage from anti-archers, so they are nerfed compared to the og version.
@@theowlogram888 Oh, that's good to know. I (try to) main Kronos and I like Cheiroballistae lategame. Still weird to nerf the most expensive and underutilised Atlantean unit.
Great vid! Just another thing to add-- cheiroballista still technically have the siege tag, even though most of the siege upgrades no longer affect them. This means that villagers get a x2 damage multiplier against them, which is funny and very silly, but I guess on the plus side it means that Kronos gets 25% of their cost back when they die (wahoo). Also it means they can't garrison, which is honestly huge, as it massively limits their utility in defensive situations. Like other siege, they have really low crush armor, so anything doing crush damage (enemy siege, myth units, destroyers etc) will kill them in moments. I learned this the hard way when I let Norse portable rams walk into my backline and they 2-tapped all my boys :(. Speaking of 2-tapping, as ranged units, cheiros are also insanely vulnerable to turma, peltasts, slingers and most cavalry. Then there's the whole identity crisis; if we're being honest, cheiros aren't REALLY siege units, and they're also not treated as siege units most of the time since they no longer benefit from most of the siege upgrades. I think double-tagged units like this are really wonky in Retold; it's very arbitrary which upgrades do or do not apply to them. Theoretically, their niche is classical-age anti-infantry, because in heroic you can get arcus instead. But they're often not very useful in classical, because they're insanely expensive and their AOE makes them only really cost-effective against large groups of infantry, so in most classical-age fights, most of their bolts will just miss the four or five hoplites on the field. In these scenarios you'd normally prefer to have turma, because at least they can kite, raid, and won't just instantly die to two thirds of your opponent's roster.
Great info here, thank you! I think the devs are trying to go for more consistency, so I'm not sure why they didn't just remove the siege tag altogether!
@@bennoloth yeah, that would make sense to me too. I think in general the double tagging in retold leads to some rough balance spots; it makes upgrade lines confusing (why doesn't upgrading cavalry improve turma?) and introduces really gnarly edge cases for balance. For example, throwing axemen being both melee and ranged opens them up to taking insane damage (two different multipliers at once!) from slingers with Slings of the Sun, and chariot archers getting the cavalry tag means that all migdol units are suddenly countered by anti-cavalry. Double tagging is a really interesting idea and I thought it seemed super cool at first, but after playing for a while, I think it might be more trouble than it's worth. Especially as the devs introduce new and interesting civs; seems likely we'll see more and more edge cases cropping up...
@@oxchild2712 Consistency and balance are related but also opposed at many times. For consistency, perhaps Atlanteans could have 1 upgrade for both Cavalry and Archers. The Counter-Barracks itself has archery targets and a stable in it. For balance, this would change the game completely. Hopefully they figure it out someday =)
a video on Fanatics would be cool, they remind me of the unique zeus soldier the myrmidon. i always spam fanatics when i get mythic. great video as always, love them!
Would love to see more videos going over exactly which technologies affect which units, in particular those that might be surprising like Petrification working for Cheiroballistae
Good to see i nailed it last time with my guess. I do like Cheiroballista's, but i agree they have their issues. As for next guess... Berserkers and Fanatics both have upgrades that affect their level of power when hurt. That's the only direct relation the two have from what i can tell, so i'm guessing it's about calculating the value those upgrades provide.
next is about 'fun'-atics maybe? ;D as a side note, for things like 5:45 where 2 separate groups can interfere with each other in the test, like with the jarls, you can make them 4 different factions and set everyone to allies except the 1 they are fighting. that way they wont interfere. bit of a faff but it might help with even more displays at once. you can even make the tested group factions the same colour and and vice versa with the other side.
I've been using cheiroballista a lot lately. Especially against Norse with some katapeltes in Classical Era. I'm under 1100 ELO, since I only had time to start playing it regularly less than a month ago. So I'm pretty bad at executing my BOs and strategies, but I'm slowly getting better. Although I've been using this unit a lot, I can see how weak it must be at higher ELOs, too expensive to be this vulnerable. To compensate it should have I better AoE or better acuracy (one of those 2). This unit would only make sense if you made a few of them and mixed them with other units. Never make them alone to counter infantry. As you've shown: with some frontline, cheiroballista is much better. But I'd say 2-4 cheiroballistas with arcus in age III could do a lot of work as an extra high dps unit. I like using hero cheiroballistas to counter high counts of Classical Era mythic units, and I also like using hero cheiroballistas to negate anti-archer bonuses, since most atlantean heroes don't get bonus damage from many sources.
Atlantean heroes take just as much bonus damage than their regular versions, so cheiros heroes are like the most cost ineffective unit you can possibly make against anti-archer units.
@@30Salmao In the wiki they list Atlantean heroes separately because in the old version of the game, they would lose their unit category upon becoming heroes so the devs would give units a hidden multiplier against atlantean heroes that would match the normal one. In Retold it's no longer the case, heroes will be counted as being of the same category as their normal version. The wiki editors chose to show this change by keeping the old multiplier and display in as a x1 multiplier, but if you hover your mouse over it it will show the actual multiplier that existed in the old game.
Hero Cheiroballista (or as the community call them Hero Cheerios) are absolutely amazing in Arena of the Gods if you have the Heroic Lashing Roots Blessing Equipped (Area damage with 3 radious is nuts). Totally Carried me through some of the tougher challenges. Is next video about bonuses that only affects hurt units? Because that's the most standout thing I see the Fanatic and Berserk have in common with Hamask and Devotees of Atlas, missing the Axeman though so maybe it's only about movement speed which Axe of Vengeance doesn't give.
The only problem with Chieros is that they are too unviable in Classical age vs Norse, doesnt do enough damage to justify its pop and resource cost, katapeltes + chieros will always be outclassed by Murmillo + Turmas, and that kinda sucks, I kinda like Chieros Oranos Bite Of Shark + Hero regen/HP + speed Upgrade Fanatics vs other attie gods that has access to Atlas and Devotees of Atlas
I wonder if the cheiro lost to the cyclops because it has only 50% crush armour which means taking a bunch of additional damage against some myth units. You should have mentioned how innacurate they are at long range, I've already seen these things lose to throwing axemen on spread formation lol. Btw I doubt they are goong to buff their area damage because they said they scaled too well and disabled palace siege techs for them bruh
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
1Luck's Reddit thread about Locust Swarm: www.reddit.com/r/AgeofMythology/comments/1g8pdzq/locusts_data_you_never_knew_you_needed/
was not aware they had been stripped of their siege unit status. that is a shame because it made them unique and those upgrades did help a bit. so now atty basically has 3 archers? weird
Technically they still are (Kronos/Helios stuff still works on them) but the fortress techs don't work on them anymore and they take bonus damage from anti-archers, so they are nerfed compared to the og version.
@@theowlogram888 Oh, that's good to know. I (try to) main Kronos and I like Cheiroballistae lategame. Still weird to nerf the most expensive and underutilised Atlantean unit.
Criminally underrated channel.
Next video will be about units that have an upgrade button on them rather than in a military building.
next video will be about hamask and devotees of atlas
"Hand Ballista" with Dadbod man always feature in my Atlantean armies, I like the concept! Hopefully the Cheiroballista can get some sort of buff.
Great vid! Just another thing to add-- cheiroballista still technically have the siege tag, even though most of the siege upgrades no longer affect them. This means that villagers get a x2 damage multiplier against them, which is funny and very silly, but I guess on the plus side it means that Kronos gets 25% of their cost back when they die (wahoo). Also it means they can't garrison, which is honestly huge, as it massively limits their utility in defensive situations. Like other siege, they have really low crush armor, so anything doing crush damage (enemy siege, myth units, destroyers etc) will kill them in moments. I learned this the hard way when I let Norse portable rams walk into my backline and they 2-tapped all my boys :(. Speaking of 2-tapping, as ranged units, cheiros are also insanely vulnerable to turma, peltasts, slingers and most cavalry.
Then there's the whole identity crisis; if we're being honest, cheiros aren't REALLY siege units, and they're also not treated as siege units most of the time since they no longer benefit from most of the siege upgrades. I think double-tagged units like this are really wonky in Retold; it's very arbitrary which upgrades do or do not apply to them.
Theoretically, their niche is classical-age anti-infantry, because in heroic you can get arcus instead. But they're often not very useful in classical, because they're insanely expensive and their AOE makes them only really cost-effective against large groups of infantry, so in most classical-age fights, most of their bolts will just miss the four or five hoplites on the field. In these scenarios you'd normally prefer to have turma, because at least they can kite, raid, and won't just instantly die to two thirds of your opponent's roster.
Great info here, thank you! I think the devs are trying to go for more consistency, so I'm not sure why they didn't just remove the siege tag altogether!
@@bennoloth yeah, that would make sense to me too. I think in general the double tagging in retold leads to some rough balance spots; it makes upgrade lines confusing (why doesn't upgrading cavalry improve turma?) and introduces really gnarly edge cases for balance. For example, throwing axemen being both melee and ranged opens them up to taking insane damage (two different multipliers at once!) from slingers with Slings of the Sun, and chariot archers getting the cavalry tag means that all migdol units are suddenly countered by anti-cavalry. Double tagging is a really interesting idea and I thought it seemed super cool at first, but after playing for a while, I think it might be more trouble than it's worth. Especially as the devs introduce new and interesting civs; seems likely we'll see more and more edge cases cropping up...
@@oxchild2712 Consistency and balance are related but also opposed at many times. For consistency, perhaps Atlanteans could have 1 upgrade for both Cavalry and Archers. The Counter-Barracks itself has archery targets and a stable in it. For balance, this would change the game completely. Hopefully they figure it out someday =)
a video on Fanatics would be cool, they remind me of the unique zeus soldier the myrmidon. i always spam fanatics when i get mythic. great video as always, love them!
Ulfsark next?
Also, a good video would be the single unit with the most possible upgrades (Relics, God Tech)
Love the in depth analysis
The next video will be about Oracles!
Great videos man, really loving the deep dives into aom
Would love to see more videos going over exactly which technologies affect which units, in particular those that might be surprising like Petrification working for Cheiroballistae
Good to see i nailed it last time with my guess. I do like Cheiroballista's, but i agree they have their issues.
As for next guess... Berserkers and Fanatics both have upgrades that affect their level of power when hurt. That's the only direct relation the two have from what i can tell, so i'm guessing it's about calculating the value those upgrades provide.
Always loved massing these as a kid. Sad to see that they're not actually that good.
Is it those unit-specific upgrades based on HP? I know Berserkers have Hamask, and Fanatics have Devotees of Atlas.
This has to be it!
next is about 'fun'-atics maybe? ;D
as a side note, for things like 5:45 where 2 separate groups can interfere with each other in the test, like with the jarls, you can make them 4 different factions and set everyone to allies except the 1 they are fighting. that way they wont interfere. bit of a faff but it might help with even more displays at once. you can even make the tested group factions the same colour and and vice versa with the other side.
Next video is about that tech that makes Ulfsarks give 1 favor when killed
You forgot about the bonus damage vs ships! Not that it matters in any way but still!!
Next vid will be the best Berserk that each of the 4 Norse gods can produce
Next video about Wonders? Bring in the big mythunits!
Never bothered producing them, and it seems i was correct.
I wish they would lower elephant pop 5 to 4 or let be it 5 pop but changed its bonus damaged Against buildings to infantry
No thanks, ele spam with thoth is already strong enough as it is.
I've been using cheiroballista a lot lately. Especially against Norse with some katapeltes in Classical Era. I'm under 1100 ELO, since I only had time to start playing it regularly less than a month ago. So I'm pretty bad at executing my BOs and strategies, but I'm slowly getting better.
Although I've been using this unit a lot, I can see how weak it must be at higher ELOs, too expensive to be this vulnerable. To compensate it should have I better AoE or better acuracy (one of those 2).
This unit would only make sense if you made a few of them and mixed them with other units. Never make them alone to counter infantry. As you've shown: with some frontline, cheiroballista is much better. But I'd say 2-4 cheiroballistas with arcus in age III could do a lot of work as an extra high dps unit.
I like using hero cheiroballistas to counter high counts of Classical Era mythic units, and I also like using hero cheiroballistas to negate anti-archer bonuses, since most atlantean heroes don't get bonus damage from many sources.
Atlantean heroes take just as much bonus damage than their regular versions, so cheiros heroes are like the most cost ineffective unit you can possibly make against anti-archer units.
@theowlogram888 in AoM wiki many heroes get a different modifier. It is wrong there?
@@30Salmao In the wiki they list Atlantean heroes separately because in the old version of the game, they would lose their unit category upon becoming heroes so the devs would give units a hidden multiplier against atlantean heroes that would match the normal one. In Retold it's no longer the case, heroes will be counted as being of the same category as their normal version. The wiki editors chose to show this change by keeping the old multiplier and display in as a x1 multiplier, but if you hover your mouse over it it will show the actual multiplier that existed in the old game.
@theowlogram888 make sense.
Hero Cheiroballista (or as the community call them Hero Cheerios) are absolutely amazing in Arena of the Gods if you have the Heroic Lashing Roots Blessing Equipped (Area damage with 3 radious is nuts). Totally Carried me through some of the tougher challenges. Is next video about bonuses that only affects hurt units? Because that's the most standout thing I see the Fanatic and Berserk have in common with Hamask and Devotees of Atlas, missing the Axeman though so maybe it's only about movement speed which Axe of Vengeance doesn't give.
I'll have to try them there - I had mostly been using Hero Arcus with Lashing Roots.
That editing you did with the music, windup, and explosion on the Jarl was extremely satisfying ;P. Is the explosion VFX from a particular game?
Thanks! It's from the TH-cam Audio Library, which is a collection of free sounds for people to use.
Are atlantean citizens better than regular vills?
Will the Next Video be about Increases in Damage when Missing HP? Devotees of Atlas, Hamask, etc
So at least two heroes and a Zeus wonder (Zeus has an upgrade for heroes) it probably has something to do with greek heroes.
The only problem with Chieros is that they are too unviable in Classical age vs Norse, doesnt do enough damage to justify its pop and resource cost, katapeltes + chieros will always be outclassed by Murmillo + Turmas, and that kinda sucks, I kinda like Chieros
Oranos Bite Of Shark + Hero regen/HP + speed Upgrade Fanatics vs other attie gods that has access to Atlas and Devotees of Atlas
will the next video be about the damage modifier which both berserks and fanatics get, when their hp decreases?
Man this unit seems like it sucks. Great video. Next one is on the ulfsark?
I wonder if the cheiro lost to the cyclops because it has only 50% crush armour which means taking a bunch of additional damage against some myth units. You should have mentioned how innacurate they are at long range, I've already seen these things lose to throwing axemen on spread formation lol. Btw I doubt they are goong to buff their area damage because they said they scaled too well and disabled palace siege techs for them bruh
Ulfsark vs Fanatic maybe?
Berzerker
why is the guy pushing the cheiroballista FAT? And yet it's so easily destroyed..
Next video: God Osiris himself