@@KyleMohanRacing keep a good work and more subs will come.... Rotary is becoming more popular these days. #robdahm who help a lot to this community 😉 and chnage a lot
Am I the only one itching to see this on the dyno? I don't expect miracles but I really want to see what it does. It seems like it will automagically live longer, simply due to the heat evacuation ability of the engine; though with 2mm apex seals i can't imagine it'll live long due to that new exhaust port's span. Won't this limit the safe rpm range?
why did you use e&j apex seals over oem seals? what's the preferential reasoning? why did you use an automatic counter weight? can you explain which multiwindowed gear u used? im following along like a tutorial.
Are we due a new vid for this one ? got my nephew on my case about his rx8 project and he really wants to do a hybrid build. i was considering blocking the side port and running 45mm peripheral port but running both rx8 and peripheral exhaust .
Excellent video, really informative! I was talking to a rotary shop over in the UK about possibly trying to use these GSLSE housings. They told me that using this would increase overlap however I'd get less power if I kept it NA. So I'm not sure if that means I could make up the power by then turbo charging the hybrid Renesis. If I'm not mistaken a few reasons the renesis struggles with boost is that there's too much heat due to the MSP, the seals are weaker (as they weren't designed with turbo charging in mind), and the rotors have been lightened. I once ran an rx8 at around 20psi of boost. It managed it, but there were early signs of compression loss right away. If I were to use either carbon apex seals or rx7 seals and machine the rotors to fit them, along with GSLSE housings, hypothetically it could handle higher boost 🤔
Fantastic! So can you make this motor with rx7 housing, using the apex and side seals of the rx8 on the rotors? Another info if possible: the hybrid engine, must be made turbo or can work well even aspirated? Are there no backpressure problems with oversized exhaust ports? Thank you.
My god, an absolut dreambuild, do you have any emission informations about this? Like, I really want to drive that, but if I didn't manage to, at least keep it on the same level, get my emission certificate, I only can use that on private place.. Edit: Probably not, cause the RX-7 sides will result in a much higher CO & CH emission I guess...
how would a stock semi PP cosmo housing, street tuned Rx8 irons hybrid work? i've been daydreaming about a progressive, vtech style vacuum operated flat slide 14 port n/a or procharged build... it's never going to be affordable to me (that's like a 12+ grand engine lmao), but what if? basically it keeps top ports and PP shut till the lower mid range, then the top ports and the PP progressively open for increased top end without chop, so the car has maximum sleeper value... but screams like a banshee when unleased.
I only have done turbo in the past and it worked great. I plan to test this NA. I believe asked on other builds I've done it should work well. Especially for race applications
Hi Kyle, it's so good to see your building episode as I'm currently building mines. My settings is quite similar like yours but I'm going to use rotrex C38R-112, a centrifugal supercharger. Thus I'm bit curious about how much could this build suffer and if it is necessary to use FD rotor that have lower CR to reach 600whp or even more? Thank you.
Great work very inspiring, quick question balanced rx7 rotors with balanced rx8 e-shaft and counterweights for moderate 2 rotor boosted rx8???? What's your opinion , thank you in advance and love your work.
How much crazier would this get with a Semi-P setup? What do you think it would do with that plus 3mm apex seals and thick studs for boost? As in, what do you think a "fully built" semi-P hybrid motor's max potential is?
Rotary experts, would there be any reason to tune the exhaust in a way to keep the side and peripheral ports somewhat separated so they can be tuned separately? Would there be any advantage to such a system?
No rotary expert, but engine building geek and two stroke fanatic here. A small issue is the center port will always allow cross over between the rotors, precluding hybrids from being able to run a fully diveded twin scroll setup. There's also some shade tree math out there talking about how the port timing and overlap of a hybrid would be really aweful NA, but that's all negative Nancy car forum people. Kyle will reveal the truth!
@@bennyb.1742 Twin scrolls is one thing I was thinking about. I was also wondering if the peripheral ports could be set up such that they have less influence on the low end but can be allowed to flow better at the top end. And I was also thinking about that in the context of a turbo. But I’m hardly an expert, just someone who has been fascinated with these engines for a while.
@BennyB Rob Dahm is just a car forum guy who transitioned to youtube. David Mazzei is also a car forum guy who does youtube. I wouldn’t insult Dave by putting them in the same category or on the same level though. If anything, the comments on youtube and the knowledge level of the average viewer here is as bad or worse than on any car forum. By his own admission this engine builder never did this NA before and isn’t sure what it will do. I’m confident he’ll put every ounce of effort and experience into getting all he can out of it, but you even admit to not being a rotary expert yourself. Yet ignore your own inexperience writing off others who likely are more informed than yourself as “negative Nancy car forum people”. In reality, that’s just what can be expected from the typical youtube commenter who has an opinion on something they know absolutely nothing about. There’s nothing wrong with putting your faith and belief behind the builder; kudo’s for doing so, but the are very valid and noted concerns about this possibly not working out as might be perceived. Maybe this will be a first and new revelation and he’ll get all the glory for it, but so far over the last 10 years (!) there hasn’t been an NA Renesis hybrid build that had anywhere near the standard Renesis output level, whether peak values or average area under the curve.
@@nobodyspecial5026 I'm confused by your reply. I don't see any mention of either Rob or David in this thread, why bring them up? "...but so far over the last 10 years (!) there hasn’t been an NA Renesis hybrid build that had anywhere near the standard Renesis output level..." I'm really curious as to what others have done. I've poked around some but the hybrid config seems exotic enough that there are not a lot of builders working with this config. One thing I have been wondering about is if there is any info on tuning the side vs peripheral exhaust ports. IIRC there was a Cosmo that had both side and peripheral intake ports with the different types of ports having separate throttles to control the path of the intake charge. I was wondering if there would be any reason to try and engineer different behavior for side vs peripheral exhaust ports? IIRC there was a Cosmo engine that had both peripheral and side intake ports with the different types of ports having their own throttles to better take advantage of the properties of each type of port. I also think I recall reading that Mazda used some of this knowledge for the Renesis intake system (though that concerns the primary and auxiliary side ports as it doesn't have peripheral ports). WRT the exhaust, I was interested to know is if there would be any reason to do thing like tune the exhaust manifold, or use valves in the different exhaust paths to better control the flow at different RPM ranges. With peripheral ports, I understand that this would not solve the issue were the seal between the exhaust and intake sides of the rotor are compromised as the apex seal sweeps past the peripheral port but would there be any other potential positives? If I can think of these sorts of things, I would expect smart people who know rotaries have already considered similar ideas, researched them, and hopefully shared their research. Port overlap is another topic I'm curious about. I was under the impression that any amount of overlap is generally not great but I seem to recall that this isn't always the case. So I am hoping there might be some basic 'rules' that can help understand when overlap is undesirable vs desirable (if ever). I've been fascinated by the Wankel rotary engine for some time but I've never had the space needed to have a project car to try and learn about them in a more direct way.
I regret that you didn’t comprehend the response. He posted a reply that results were coming a week later, that was 6 or 7 weeks ago. I have $100 that says it was dyno’d and now he knows the truth that the NA version is a total dud. The turbo version is not much better. An REW with full bridgeport will make better numbers at approx. the same boost level. Because I’ve seen the results using iron plates that he did the porting on. Take heed that no man deceives you. For many merchandisers will come claiming to represent the truth, and they will deceive many.
The apex seal works like a piston ring inside of a groove, there are three per rotor and when gas and oil burning builds up enough carbon in the groove the seal gets stuck down in the groove causing compression lose, I just drained my rotary engine from a two week Marvel Mystery oil soak to loosen up any carbon build up, I have removed the exhaust pipe for when I start it back up Saturday none of the carbon will go into the cat.
How much power would you expect from this na and what would I change to run boost. I’m in the market to build my first rotary but trying to do it on a budget and an rx8 engine would be best $wise.
With the street port and new gslse housing exhaust port, it should flow a lot more air. I also assume the intake manifold is polished. My best guess with this set up is 200-230whp.
Great update, looking forward to how you take care of the header. Would love to just buy one from you for my AE86. Funny, I got my Renesis for stupid cheap and got SE housings (actually whole motor) from an old friend as well 🤣
Looks amazing! I know you said it's not a 120,000 mile motor but what do you think it would take to get there? Im no rotary specialist but I'd imagine because it handles heat better, it would last longer. By that logic, my assumption is that the boost is what's limiting the lifespan and if there was less boost it might make 120k. I know this is a performance engine and will probably be rebuilt before it even reaches 1,000 miles but I always love learning more about rotaries. I currently have a 5,000 mile Pettit rebuilt engine in my rx8 but this might be what I look to do at my next rebuild haha
Hi Kyle, 👋 would it not be beneficial to use older rx7 center iron as well to cut back on some exhaust overlap and provide more low end torque (eliminating the center exhaust) given the glse and rx8 exhaust timing differences? Just a concept I've been turning in my head. Cheers and can't wait to see dyno numbers.
@@nobodyspecial5026 ok, guess I'll just have to hope and pray someone makes center plates at some point to solve the hybrid exhaust center port scavenging issues traveling from one rotor to the other side.
Speaking hypothetically, an RX8 hybrid 3 rotor would require expensive custom work that may not be worth the effort. Your better off sourcing a used 20B or getting the billet 20B plates and e shaft with 13B housings. 4 rotors are a whole other ballgame.
It should be possible seeing as there is a 20b-msp (self build) but its not cheap and seeing as how it works can only be done with the 4 port engines, if u google it u might find it somewhere on a forum.
@popiwatv Actually, there's a whole car that we built with one of these motors. This was just to show how we did it. There's magazine features stories about it. It won its class championship. I think I finally got a chassis for this motor but gotta make some money first.
@@juanmangerita I've posted results in the past. There's a story in Moto Iq. Even a dyno chart from the Mazdatrix car in my previous videos talking about how I've built these before 👍
loving the series of this engine being built! keep the rota updates consistently coming in if possible, you'll get alot more subs!
Will try to do. The support helps.
Thank you, for doing the Due Diligence for everyone and future reference.. appreciate it brotha. Can’t wait to see the numbers and hear it run.
👍
Great progress, cant wait to see a NA build
Thank you for sharing this information, keeping renesis alive for longer instead of scraping it.
I honestly searched for an update on the build last night. We are almost at the manifold section and I can't wait. Great series. 👍 👍
My biggest question/what I'm most interested in is what the exhaust manifold looks like for this thing.
I wish to see this running this year.. looks amazing... Wondering for n/a figures 😉
I don't think it'll push much more than stock, but it's probably more reliable due to less heat in the exhaust side
More followers and viewers helps it happen faster. Tbanks for the support
@@KyleMohanRacing keep a good work and more subs will come.... Rotary is becoming more popular these days. #robdahm who help a lot to this community 😉 and chnage a lot
Am I the only one itching to see this on the dyno?
I don't expect miracles but I really want to see what it does.
It seems like it will automagically live longer, simply due to the heat evacuation ability of the engine; though with 2mm apex seals i can't imagine it'll live long due to that new exhaust port's span. Won't this limit the safe rpm range?
when can we expect to see you drop it in , and start it up?
why did you use e&j apex seals over oem seals? what's the preferential reasoning?
why did you use an automatic counter weight?
can you explain which multiwindowed gear u used?
im following along like a tutorial.
Thanks, I can't wait for the NA power results
Cmon #KMR @kmr
When we gonna see some progress here??
I’m
Dying
Reni rotors still with the apex grooves cut for FD seals right?
Yep, we offer the services if you need any help
Thank you for sharing all that knowledge with us
Are we due a new vid for this one ? got my nephew on my case about his rx8 project and he really wants to do a hybrid build. i was considering blocking the side port and running 45mm peripheral port but running both rx8 and peripheral exhaust .
Mean I wondered if this has ever been done so it has doz it reduce the exhaust temp??
Any plans on releasing a DIY build kit?
I could do that
I need to get one of these built by you folks asap
Can you post a link to teflon encapsulated coolant water o rings
What intake and exhaust manifold are you using
Any insight on power limits for this approach for NA applications?
Excellent video, really informative!
I was talking to a rotary shop over in the UK about possibly trying to use these GSLSE housings. They told me that using this would increase overlap however I'd get less power if I kept it NA. So I'm not sure if that means I could make up the power by then turbo charging the hybrid Renesis.
If I'm not mistaken a few reasons the renesis struggles with boost is that there's too much heat due to the MSP, the seals are weaker (as they weren't designed with turbo charging in mind), and the rotors have been lightened. I once ran an rx8 at around 20psi of boost. It managed it, but there were early signs of compression loss right away. If I were to use either carbon apex seals or rx7 seals and machine the rotors to fit them, along with GSLSE housings, hypothetically it could handle higher boost 🤔
Looks good,
What do you do with the exhaust manifold?
In P.R. we weld the exhaust in the plates and use only the housings exhaust
Custom manifold
What turbo manifold would you use
really wanna see na like this on dyno. this could be a game changer for rx8's doing scca racing. makes me want a rotary car again.
Can this build use the stock rx8 ecu and can i use the 6 exhaust ports with a 4 port intake?
What apex seals are you running ? 2MM Rx-8 ?
Pure awesomeness. What kind of numbers can an N/A build produce like such?
Depends on intake choices, exhaust systems, porting....
Any update on the manifold and exhaust system??
Fantastic! So can you make this motor with rx7 housing, using the apex and side seals of the rx8 on the rotors? Another info if possible: the hybrid engine, must be made turbo or can work well even aspirated? Are there no backpressure problems with oversized exhaust ports?
Thank you.
Ready to build mine!
I may have missed it but are you using Rx8 rotors still? are the only parts of this build that aren't Rx8 parts the gslse rotor housings?
Great work Kyle
Thank you
Wonder how dailyable an NA build similar to this would be. Granted with a street based tune.
should be a solid. I think it's a great option for old school builds vs a traditional 4 port 13b.
@@KyleMohanRacing ... Hmmm... Time to start saving money to rewamp my 2005 RX-8
Can you mix a 12A with renesis like this?
Looking forward for next vid. Quick question @kyle mohan racing, are this setup works on stock ECU or require a standalone ECU?
Where to order the housings and blocks so new like what in your video? thanks!
Any updates what kind of power are you seeing from this combo does it have nice low end tq?
My god, an absolut dreambuild, do you have any emission informations about this? Like, I really want to drive that, but if I didn't manage to, at least keep it on the same level, get my emission certificate, I only can use that on private place..
Edit: Probably not, cause the RX-7 sides will result in a much higher CO & CH emission I guess...
how would a stock semi PP cosmo housing, street tuned Rx8 irons hybrid work?
i've been daydreaming about a progressive, vtech style vacuum operated flat slide 14 port n/a or procharged build...
it's never going to be affordable to me (that's like a 12+ grand engine lmao), but what if? basically it keeps top ports and PP shut till the lower mid range, then the top ports and the PP progressively open for increased top end without chop, so the car has maximum sleeper value... but screams like a banshee when unleased.
What is the advantage of this hybrid motor over the stock renesis engine?
Dissipates heat and components are cheap
Check out the video series. Thanks for watching
does the hybrid motor work well NA?
I only have done turbo in the past and it worked great. I plan to test this NA. I believe asked on other builds I've done it should work well. Especially for race applications
Hi Kyle, it's so good to see your building episode as I'm currently building mines. My settings is quite similar like yours but I'm going to use rotrex C38R-112, a centrifugal supercharger. Thus I'm bit curious about how much could this build suffer and if it is necessary to use FD rotor that have lower CR to reach 600whp or even more? Thank you.
I'd stick with modified rx8 rotors. Checkout our other videos in the description. We talk about rotor choices
where can i buy 1 piece apex seals for renesis?
Great work very inspiring, quick question balanced rx7 rotors with balanced rx8 e-shaft and counterweights for moderate 2 rotor boosted rx8???? What's your opinion , thank you in advance and love your work.
Thanks for this build info!
🙌
What is the eta for the next video?
Next Saturday
Any Updates on the Hybrid build?
how much would this cost for all the rx7 parts if i wanted to build this myself
Awsome build I'm a need a engine next year. 06 rx8 4 port 6 speed auto
2006-2008 are ALL 6 PORT. Regardless of automatic or manual. Which is better because you can make more power with that version versus the 4 port.
Hello Kyle , Great Build series , how is it coming along ?
How much crazier would this get with a Semi-P setup? What do you think it would do with that plus 3mm apex seals and thick studs for boost? As in, what do you think a "fully built" semi-P hybrid motor's max potential is?
Very cool thanks for sharing👍
good vid
Thanks so much
Hey quick question Mr Mohan, how or where can u get the exhaust gasket for the hybrid set up?
We will have some available in the next week or so
Rotary experts, would there be any reason to tune the exhaust in a way to keep the side and peripheral ports somewhat separated so they can be tuned separately? Would there be any advantage to such a system?
No rotary expert, but engine building geek and two stroke fanatic here. A small issue is the center port will always allow cross over between the rotors, precluding hybrids from being able to run a fully diveded twin scroll setup. There's also some shade tree math out there talking about how the port timing and overlap of a hybrid would be really aweful NA, but that's all negative Nancy car forum people. Kyle will reveal the truth!
@@bennyb.1742 Twin scrolls is one thing I was thinking about. I was also wondering if the peripheral ports could be set up such that they have less influence on the low end but can be allowed to flow better at the top end. And I was also thinking about that in the context of a turbo. But I’m hardly an expert, just someone who has been fascinated with these engines for a while.
@BennyB
Rob Dahm is just a car forum guy who transitioned to youtube. David Mazzei is also a car forum guy who does youtube. I wouldn’t insult Dave by putting them in the same category or on the same level though.
If anything, the comments on youtube and the knowledge level of the average viewer here is as bad or worse than on any car forum. By his own admission this engine builder never did this NA before and isn’t sure what it will do.
I’m confident he’ll put every ounce of effort and experience into getting all he can out of it, but you even admit to not being a rotary expert yourself. Yet ignore your own inexperience writing off others who likely are more informed than yourself as “negative Nancy car forum people”.
In reality, that’s just what can be expected from the typical youtube commenter who has an opinion on something they know absolutely nothing about. There’s nothing wrong with putting your faith and belief behind the builder; kudo’s for doing so, but the are very valid and noted concerns about this possibly not working out as might be perceived.
Maybe this will be a first and new revelation and he’ll get all the glory for it, but so far over the last 10 years (!) there hasn’t been an NA Renesis hybrid build that had anywhere near the standard Renesis output level, whether peak values or average area under the curve.
@@nobodyspecial5026 I'm confused by your reply. I don't see any mention of either Rob or David in this thread, why bring them up?
"...but so far over the last 10 years (!) there hasn’t been an NA Renesis hybrid build that had anywhere near the standard Renesis output level..."
I'm really curious as to what others have done. I've poked around some but the hybrid config seems exotic enough that there are not a lot of builders working with this config.
One thing I have been wondering about is if there is any info on tuning the side vs peripheral exhaust ports. IIRC there was a Cosmo that had both side and peripheral intake ports with the different types of ports having separate throttles to control the path of the intake charge. I was wondering if there would be any reason to try and engineer different behavior for side vs peripheral exhaust ports? IIRC there was a Cosmo engine that had both peripheral and side intake ports with the different types of ports having their own throttles to better take advantage of the properties of each type of port. I also think I recall reading that Mazda used some of this knowledge for the Renesis intake system (though that concerns the primary and auxiliary side ports as it doesn't have peripheral ports).
WRT the exhaust, I was interested to know is if there would be any reason to do thing like tune the exhaust manifold, or use valves in the different exhaust paths to better control the flow at different RPM ranges. With peripheral ports, I understand that this would not solve the issue were the seal between the exhaust and intake sides of the rotor are compromised as the apex seal sweeps past the peripheral port but would there be any other potential positives? If I can think of these sorts of things, I would expect smart people who know rotaries have already considered similar ideas, researched them, and hopefully shared their research.
Port overlap is another topic I'm curious about. I was under the impression that any amount of overlap is generally not great but I seem to recall that this isn't always the case. So I am hoping there might be some basic 'rules' that can help understand when overlap is undesirable vs desirable (if ever).
I've been fascinated by the Wankel rotary engine for some time but I've never had the space needed to have a project car to try and learn about them in a more direct way.
I regret that you didn’t comprehend the response.
He posted a reply that results were coming a week later, that was 6 or 7 weeks ago. I have $100 that says it was dyno’d and now he knows the truth that the NA version is a total dud. The turbo version is not much better. An REW with full bridgeport will make better numbers at approx. the same boost level. Because I’ve seen the results using iron plates that he did the porting on.
Take heed that no man deceives you. For many merchandisers will come claiming to represent the truth, and they will deceive many.
Can you use 91 rx7 housing instead of 85?
no the cooling jacket O-ring grooves are on the irons for FC and FD engines, but are on the rotor housings for the GSL SE and Renesis
Kind of late question, but what makes the Renesis motor so bad, just the side exit exhaust?
The apex seal works like a piston ring inside of a groove, there are three per rotor and when gas and oil burning builds up enough carbon in the groove the seal gets stuck down in the groove causing compression lose, I just drained my rotary engine from a two week Marvel Mystery oil soak to loosen up any carbon build up, I have removed the exhaust pipe for when I start it back up Saturday none of the carbon will go into the cat.
How much power would you expect from this na and what would I change to run boost. I’m in the market to build my first rotary but trying to do it on a budget and an rx8 engine would be best $wise.
With the street port and new gslse housing exhaust port, it should flow a lot more air. I also assume the intake manifold is polished. My best guess with this set up is 200-230whp.
Great update, looking forward to how you take care of the header. Would love to just buy one from you for my AE86.
Funny, I got my Renesis for stupid cheap and got SE housings (actually whole motor) from an old friend as well 🤣
👍
Looks amazing! I know you said it's not a 120,000 mile motor but what do you think it would take to get there? Im no rotary specialist but I'd imagine because it handles heat better, it would last longer. By that logic, my assumption is that the boost is what's limiting the lifespan and if there was less boost it might make 120k. I know this is a performance engine and will probably be rebuilt before it even reaches 1,000 miles but I always love learning more about rotaries. I currently have a 5,000 mile Pettit rebuilt engine in my rx8 but this might be what I look to do at my next rebuild haha
1k mile rebuild is crazy… I’d like to see 30-50k tho performance base build that’s street friendly.
Yea I'm also curious about this. If I could make power and still get 30-40k I would be happy honestly lol.
Use the Factory Orings Mazda made and presto 180k easy !
What’s cost for doing a setup like this? Would it handle a 500whp setup utilizing e85? It’s this or ls swap my rx8
For 500whp I'd recommend use FD rotor. Lower CR to make sure it survive. But shouldn't be that hard to reach 500whp with renesis rotor 😉
@@qiqisun500hp n/a Renesis?!
Hi Kyle, 👋 would it not be beneficial to use older rx7 center iron as well to cut back on some exhaust overlap and provide more low end torque (eliminating the center exhaust) given the glse and rx8 exhaust timing differences? Just a concept I've been turning in my head. Cheers and can't wait to see dyno numbers.
the intake ports and bolts don’t line up the same between them.
@@nobodyspecial5026 ok, guess I'll just have to hope and pray someone makes center plates at some point to solve the hybrid exhaust center port scavenging issues traveling from one rotor to the other side.
Where does the knock sensor go?
Is there a way to do it with 3 or more rotors??
Speaking hypothetically, an RX8 hybrid 3 rotor would require expensive custom work that may not be worth the effort. Your better off sourcing a used 20B or getting the billet 20B plates and e shaft with 13B housings. 4 rotors are a whole other ballgame.
It should be possible seeing as there is a 20b-msp (self build) but its not cheap and seeing as how it works can only be done with the 4 port engines, if u google it u might find it somewhere on a forum.
But does it brap?
Not a street port. But a bridge port should.
how you feel about doing this with 4 port Renesis?
It should work. Not as much intake air available
I can’t wait until the day we get to stick a 3 rotor 750Hp combustion Tesla turbine into your ride!
Formula T, Baby!
Here we come! 🔥😈🔥
🙌 I'm down
Man I thought you would combine it with electric motor
They put this motor together but they never showed it running
@popiwatv Actually, there's a whole car that we built with one of these motors. This was just to show how we did it. There's magazine features stories about it. It won its class championship. I think I finally got a chassis for this motor but gotta make some money first.
@@KyleMohanRacing rad potential did one and it barely even worked. It made 100 hp
@popiwatv our turbo one did 430hp at wheels at 12 to 14psi and won it's race class. 🏁 it's featured in Moto Iq ...
@@KyleMohanRacing 😮
@popiwatv I've never built a NA one but I know turbo works. Proven race results, dyno results...
Lol no results yet ?
@@juanmangerita I've posted results in the past. There's a story in Moto Iq. Even a dyno chart from the Mazdatrix car in my previous videos talking about how I've built these before 👍
how much would this cost? is I were to do it myself.