Glad that you got it working! About those Bosch VE pumps: Yeah, you can change the pump seals but this is not a rebuild in my opinion. Real rebuild is where all the worn out parts will be changed, costs around 800-2000€ (depending how much needs to be replaced). Fun fact is that you can actually order parts for this pump yourself. For example cam plate, cam plate rollers and distribution head with plunger. Cheapest ones come from china and cost 100-200€. But with what quality and tolerances are those :D Anyway I started the teardown on mine as well, only difference that mine is in Range Rover P38. Weird is that I could not get the cam tool all the way inserted. Had a cap like yours but mine was like 2cm, thought that flywheel pin has been misplaced but after 2hours of trying and arguing myself I concluded that it was in the right place just the chain had so much stretch, or it had skipped a tooth somehow. I hope to get the rest dismantled in few days so I can confirm this theory. Anyway the most important is to time it right when putting it back together. Did you change out the keys as well or went with old ones? Heard that crank key that is connected to oil pump should be changed while at it.
@madismaekivi6800 Thanks for the constructive comment! I definitely agree that only new seals is not a rebuild but from my research( mostly French forums etc) the defective seals cause a loss of pressure and many people have had success just replacing the seals since these go defective before the pump internals do. Can you pls provide a store where I can buy individual pump and injector parts because I haven't found any :/ Considering your case: from what you discovered, I think urs skipped timing since 2 cm is a lot (I had a 5mm gap at 320k km) and that's not unheard of (actually found that case on an RR forum), and then it would be wise to replace the crank key since there was a lot of play all the time. but on mine, I kept the old one because it was a tight fit, and don't think it was necessary. Even if I had to replace it I wouldn't know where to buy a crank key? Get it custom-machined? no idea
Ive been an owner of E34 2.5TDS for year and a half, learnt a lot, and another big reason why it was hard to start mine, was because the temperature sensor was bad - there are 3 or 4 temperature sensors right next to glow plugs, and as soon as I unplugged the 3rd one (counting from front to back, I believe it was pretty much under 4th injector) it started instantly - mine was reading wrong temps and ECU thought it was hot, so it was putting less fuel in, unplugged it and it started. Changed it out for a new one and problem was solved.
@Ovieee Yes your right! I also had to repair the wiring loom in one of my newer videos since the ecu got a wrong temp reading. M51 have 2 standard temp sensors and the other 2 were options iirc . 1 was venetian blinds for the radiator iirc.
@@DailyDrivenClasssics Yeah mine had 3 temp sensors, but counting the slots from front to back, the 3rd one was the one that was broken. So nice that youre making all these vids, because I couldnt find really anything about these engines so had to diagnose it myself.
Good content, well done. I had an old '88 golf 2 gtd 1.6td 69ps, very easy basic system. You could set up the injection timing by loosen up the pump holding bolts and knock the pump in one - or other direction, causing lean or rich mixture. You had to check for smoke, listen engine sound and go for a test drive to set up the right mixture. This one looks a little bit complicated engine. I personally I would not trust the electrical clamps on the pilot injector what you did. When the engine runs good, mark the cables and solder them properly. Soldering is not gonna trick you in 5 years time, neither in 20 years. But these electrical quick clamps can oxidate easier. But maybe I am picky :D
@@DailyDrivenClasssics I just got there! You've learned a lot during this journey I guess (I will leave my comment here, maybe sby else can get idea from it.)
Really good video. its hard to find good videos of BMW M51 Engine repairs. I am trying to fix my 325tds E36 Engine since an year now and had to learn many things my self. My M51 starts pretty well, but its runs pretty bad. the engine is Chacking the wohle car and smokes a lot. I have allready installed ne Injektors and a tested, working pump. I timed the pump but that didnt help.
@Haizocker @Haizocker jaja der m51 motor.... ewiges fragezeichen... Spass beiseite, hast de die Motorlager schon gewechselt, meine waren komplett hinüber und habs im letzten video gefixt und seitdem schaukelt das auto wenigstens nicht mehr auch wenn der motor nach wievor bissl kacke läuft. Ich denke dass irgendwo luft bei mir ins dieselsystem kommt. Auch wenn meiner auf 50/50 diesel öl läuft sollte er nicht so absaufen weil er läuft ruhig und dann nach 30 sec bockt er ab weil er sich verschluckt→ luft im diesel
@@DailyDrivenClasssics Ja also motor Lager sind neu gekommen genau wie alle sensoren, luftmassen messer, Kurbelwellen sensor etc. im lehrlauf läuft meiner ganz ok, nur beim gas geben geht der teilweise aus und nimmt schlecht gas an.
@@Haizocker okeyy ich hab noch die alte version ohne lmm. Hab sws gehört dass lmm nur als faktur benutzt wird für die egr steuerung. Wurde bei dir die fördermenge schon eingestellt oder gecheckt?
@@DailyDrivenClasssics das tatsächlich noch nicht, wie lässt sich denn die Fördermenge verstellen? Die Pumpe wurde noch nie geöffnet nur von einer Werkstatt auf funktion getestet.
@@Haizocker hab das ganze im video kurz abgesprochen aber tatsächlich findet man keine tutorials auf englisch oder deutsch. Schreib mir auf insta( michelgasche ) , ich schick dir screenshots
I have an e28 524td with the M21d24. I really wish BMW sold the M51 cars here in the USA. My M21 lasted me 11 years. I bought it with 110,000 miles and i retired it with 310,000 miles the last 20,000 miles were with 1.27 Bar, 227HP, and 486 NM before the piston rings gave up. I can only imagine what the M51 could do
@524_td @524_td That's some impressive longevity from your M21d24 engine! It's always fascinating to hear about people's experiences with their cars, especially when they've clocked such high mileage./. Here in Europe, m51s are not well respected at all since everybody wants an m57 for diesel tuning and the older diesels are seen as useless for performance and reliability which I think is sad
Well there is quite a good reason why M51 is not often seen on tuning stage. Their heads are prone to cracking and warping, they are restrictive with small valve lift. And the concept of indirect injection makes all of this worse. It's less efficient than direct injection therefore creates a lot more heat. And weak head + heat doesn't mix too well.
@@Ziurkyss i agree with you and I know that you can never see the m57 performance out of an m51 we are talking about an old idi, sohc, 12 valve 2.5 liter that came without and intercooler in the td. the m57 is a beast compared to the m51 even in stock form. But I would be more impressed by a build where you reach 350 hp in an m51 than another 600 hp m57 build.
good m21 is definitely stronger than m51, they may not have better fuel consumption but they can push more horses and last longer. my m21 has driven 600k+ km and this summer it threw off the timing belt, literally got a new belt and a new tensioner and it still runs great. (no valve and piston damage). Friend of mine got 290hp with an unopened engine.
@Diesele30 600k is a lot and 290 on an unopened engine is also quite impressive. AND you got really lucky with that timing belt sliding off but not causing any major damage
Super nice video man! I've been working on my m51 e34 for the last year and its finally coming all together... I've had a weird problem for a long time tho, when I drive the car in 4th or 5th gear and I give it a lot of gas, the car accelerates and suddently it stops, like fuel suddently stopped being injected for a brief moment, any ideas why?
Thanks! Glad to year yours is back on the road:) i havent driven mine since I got it:( . Im no m51 expert , but have you checked if its only in 4th and 5th gear, bcuz there are quite a lot of cases where the injection pump dies and it only lets the engine rev to 2-3 k rpm? Otherwise I cant really think of anything else but too little fuel in the tank. Mine always stalled when i moved the car around in the parking lot bcuz the diesel sloshed around in the tank and sucked air into the pump because i only had 1-3 litres in there 🥴😇. Right now I have no other guesses so sorry if I couldnt help but I am sure you will get it sorted!
Thats sad to hear, but if you want to just buy one again. They are still pretty cheap when defective :) .But the Oil pump? Ive heard about the injection pump a million times but never oil pump. Whats the issue with them ?
@heroykenn @heroykenn Yes! you can check timing though diagnostic port. I filmed a video on that last week, but accidentally deleted it:( Gonna refilm and post one next week :)
@jacknewnham9664 @jacknewnham9664 I bought some generic kit on ebay. Doesn't work the best to be honest:/ Would suggest to either buy a good dial gauge with adapters or to set the IP with inpa:)
Any ideas why I have a hunting idle? The car starts on the button, been sat 11 years, it smokes alot out the exhaust aswell, I've put fresh diesel in and changed the filter
@user-ej4cb8qv3j what kind of smoke grey/white/ black? Since you replaced the filter and diesel(necessary after 11 years of sitting and well thought), you probably introduced air into the system( prefilled the filter?). Or it is pulling air from the bridle return lines. Also, check the blockoff cap on the injector from cylinder number 6. These caps often introduce air into the system. Another possibility could be that someone adjusted the electrical top part on the injection pump( before your ownership) to the transmission side, thereby making the engine run richer. The ECU tries to compensate for this and a hunting idle is often the consequence. Hope this helps!
@@DailyDrivenClasssics I'd say the smoke is a blue/ grey, if I break loose the injector lines and crank the engine to see if it has any air, do I need to disconnect the starter relay or starter love wire to stop it wanting to run?
@@DailyDrivenClasssics I'm not sure how to adjust the fuel mixture, so maybe a little more research will need to be done, yes I prefilled the filter, bridle lines as in the lines on top of each injector?
@user-ej4cb8qv3j blueish smoke is usually burning oil. I run black diesel so mine smokes blue all the time but in your case i would check the turbo. If the shaft has excessive play there might be oil getting pushed in the engine. Since diesel engines also run on engine oil this acts as fuel and throws off the idle which would also explain the hunting idle since the ECU tries to compensate. I bled my injectors without pulling any relays or so. I also did it once with the engine running, so no need to worry :)
@user-ej4cb8qv3j you have an m51 right? they use a bosch VE pump. They usually have an electrical top part with an actuator that can be adjusted by sliding the middle part of the pump back and forward. I wouldn't recommend doing this first since it is really hard to adjust it to a correct value. The correct way would be with diagnostics hooked up to measure minimal injection quantity or to go to a bosch center and let them adjust it. Briddle lines are are the tiny lines going from injector to injector and from the first injector to the return on the injection pump.
Glad that you got it working!
About those Bosch VE pumps: Yeah, you can change the pump seals but this is not a rebuild in my opinion.
Real rebuild is where all the worn out parts will be changed, costs around 800-2000€ (depending how much needs to be replaced). Fun fact is that you can actually order parts for this pump yourself. For example cam plate, cam plate rollers and distribution head with plunger. Cheapest ones come from china and cost 100-200€. But with what quality and tolerances are those :D
Anyway I started the teardown on mine as well, only difference that mine is in Range Rover P38.
Weird is that I could not get the cam tool all the way inserted. Had a cap like yours but mine was like 2cm, thought that flywheel pin has been misplaced but after 2hours of trying and arguing myself I concluded that it was in the right place just the chain had so much stretch, or it had skipped a tooth somehow. I hope to get the rest dismantled in few days so I can confirm this theory. Anyway the most important is to time it right when putting it back together.
Did you change out the keys as well or went with old ones? Heard that crank key that is connected to oil pump should be changed while at it.
@madismaekivi6800 Thanks for the constructive comment! I definitely agree that only new seals is not a rebuild but from my research( mostly French forums etc) the defective seals cause a loss of pressure and many people have had success just replacing the seals since these go defective before the pump internals do. Can you pls provide a store where I can buy individual pump and injector parts because I haven't found any :/
Considering your case: from what you discovered, I think urs skipped timing since 2 cm is a lot (I had a 5mm gap at 320k km) and that's not unheard of (actually found that case on an RR forum), and then it would be wise to replace the crank key since there was a lot of play all the time. but on mine, I kept the old one because it was a tight fit, and don't think it was necessary. Even if I had to replace it I wouldn't know where to buy a crank key? Get it custom-machined? no idea
Ive been an owner of E34 2.5TDS for year and a half, learnt a lot, and another big reason why it was hard to start mine, was because the temperature sensor was bad - there are 3 or 4 temperature sensors right next to glow plugs, and as soon as I unplugged the 3rd one (counting from front to back, I believe it was pretty much under 4th injector) it started instantly - mine was reading wrong temps and ECU thought it was hot, so it was putting less fuel in, unplugged it and it started. Changed it out for a new one and problem was solved.
@Ovieee Yes your right! I also had to repair the wiring loom in one of my newer videos since the ecu got a wrong temp reading. M51 have 2 standard temp sensors and the other 2 were options iirc . 1 was venetian blinds for the radiator iirc.
@@DailyDrivenClasssics Yeah mine had 3 temp sensors, but counting the slots from front to back, the 3rd one was the one that was broken. So nice that youre making all these vids, because I couldnt find really anything about these engines so had to diagnose it myself.
@Ovieee
@Ovieee your welcome :) Allthough I hope your car turns out to be more reliable than mine :)
Good content, well done.
I had an old '88 golf 2 gtd 1.6td 69ps, very easy basic system.
You could set up the injection timing by loosen up the pump holding bolts and knock the pump in one - or other direction, causing lean or rich mixture. You had to check for smoke, listen engine sound and go for a test drive to set up the right mixture.
This one looks a little bit complicated engine.
I personally I would not trust the electrical clamps on the pilot injector what you did. When the engine runs good, mark the cables and solder them properly. Soldering is not gonna trick you in 5 years time, neither in 20 years. But these electrical quick clamps can oxidate easier. But maybe I am picky :D
@@bcsvgabor oh dont worry. I bought a new pilot injector in a later episode :)
@@DailyDrivenClasssics I just got there!
You've learned a lot during this journey I guess
(I will leave my comment here, maybe sby else can get idea from it.)
@@bcsvgabor no need to delete your comment :) Are you watching all the old episodes right now?
Really good video. its hard to find good videos of BMW M51 Engine repairs. I am trying to fix my 325tds E36 Engine since an year now and had to learn many things my self. My M51 starts pretty well, but its runs pretty bad. the engine is Chacking the wohle car and smokes a lot. I have allready installed ne Injektors and a tested, working pump. I timed the pump but that didnt help.
@Haizocker
@Haizocker jaja der m51 motor.... ewiges fragezeichen... Spass beiseite, hast de die Motorlager schon gewechselt, meine waren komplett hinüber und habs im letzten video gefixt und seitdem schaukelt das auto wenigstens nicht mehr auch wenn der motor nach wievor bissl kacke läuft. Ich denke dass irgendwo luft bei mir ins dieselsystem kommt. Auch wenn meiner auf 50/50 diesel öl läuft sollte er nicht so absaufen weil er läuft ruhig und dann nach 30 sec bockt er ab weil er sich verschluckt→ luft im diesel
@@DailyDrivenClasssics
Ja also motor Lager sind neu gekommen genau wie alle sensoren, luftmassen messer, Kurbelwellen sensor etc.
im lehrlauf läuft meiner ganz ok, nur beim gas geben geht der teilweise aus und nimmt schlecht gas an.
@@Haizocker okeyy ich hab noch die alte version ohne lmm. Hab sws gehört dass lmm nur als faktur benutzt wird für die egr steuerung. Wurde bei dir die fördermenge schon eingestellt oder gecheckt?
@@DailyDrivenClasssics das tatsächlich noch nicht, wie lässt sich denn die Fördermenge verstellen? Die Pumpe wurde noch nie geöffnet nur von einer Werkstatt auf funktion getestet.
@@Haizocker hab das ganze im video kurz abgesprochen aber tatsächlich findet man keine tutorials auf englisch oder deutsch. Schreib mir auf insta( michelgasche ) , ich schick dir screenshots
I have an e28 524td with the M21d24. I really wish BMW sold the M51 cars here in the USA. My M21 lasted me 11 years. I bought it with 110,000 miles and i retired it with 310,000 miles the last 20,000 miles were with 1.27 Bar, 227HP, and 486 NM before the piston rings gave up. I can only imagine what the M51 could do
@524_td
@524_td That's some impressive longevity from your M21d24 engine! It's always fascinating to hear about people's experiences with their cars, especially when they've clocked such high mileage./. Here in Europe, m51s are not well respected at all since everybody wants an m57 for diesel tuning and the older diesels are seen as useless for performance and reliability which I think is sad
Well there is quite a good reason why M51 is not often seen on tuning stage. Their heads are prone to cracking and warping, they are restrictive with small valve lift. And the concept of indirect injection makes all of this worse. It's less efficient than direct injection therefore creates a lot more heat. And weak head + heat doesn't mix too well.
@@Ziurkyss i agree with you and I know that you can never see the m57 performance out of an m51 we are talking about an old idi, sohc, 12 valve 2.5 liter that came without and intercooler in the td. the m57 is a beast compared to the m51 even in stock form. But I would be more impressed by a build where you reach 350 hp in an m51 than another 600 hp m57 build.
good m21 is definitely stronger than m51, they may not have better fuel consumption but they can push more horses and last longer. my m21 has driven 600k+ km and this summer it threw off the timing belt, literally got a new belt and a new tensioner and it still runs great. (no valve and piston damage). Friend of mine got 290hp with an unopened engine.
@Diesele30 600k is a lot and 290 on an unopened engine is also quite impressive. AND you got really lucky with that timing belt sliding off but not causing any major damage
Super nice video man! I've been working on my m51 e34 for the last year and its finally coming all together...
I've had a weird problem for a long time tho, when I drive the car in 4th or 5th gear and I give it a lot of gas, the car accelerates and suddently it stops, like fuel suddently stopped being injected for a brief moment, any ideas why?
Thanks! Glad to year yours is back on the road:) i havent driven mine since I got it:( . Im no m51 expert , but have you checked if its only in 4th and 5th gear, bcuz there are quite a lot of cases where the injection pump dies and it only lets the engine rev to 2-3 k rpm? Otherwise I cant really think of anything else but too little fuel in the tank. Mine always stalled when i moved the car around in the parking lot bcuz the diesel sloshed around in the tank and sucked air into the pump because i only had 1-3 litres in there 🥴😇. Right now I have no other guesses so sorry if I couldnt help but I am sure you will get it sorted!
Had that engine in an Omega. Especially the oil pump was always an issue. Sadly didn't have time to fix it.
Thats sad to hear, but if you want to just buy one again. They are still pretty cheap when defective :) .But the Oil pump? Ive heard about the injection pump a million times but never oil pump. Whats the issue with them ?
Can you please tell me how I can set the timing injection without dialog. I can check the timing though diagnostics port?
@heroykenn
@heroykenn Yes! you can check timing though diagnostic port. I filmed a video on that last week, but accidentally deleted it:( Gonna refilm and post one next week :)
Thanks. Did you have another way to talk? I have a lot of questions about m51 on 725tds
@@heroykenn instagram. check my channel page
Hi Where did you get the adaptor tool 13-5-330? cheers
@jacknewnham9664
@jacknewnham9664 I bought some generic kit on ebay. Doesn't work the best to be honest:/ Would suggest to either buy a good dial gauge with adapters or to set the IP with inpa:)
Any ideas why I have a hunting idle? The car starts on the button, been sat 11 years, it smokes alot out the exhaust aswell, I've put fresh diesel in and changed the filter
@user-ej4cb8qv3j
what kind of smoke grey/white/ black? Since you replaced the filter and diesel(necessary after 11 years of sitting and well thought), you probably introduced air into the system( prefilled the filter?). Or it is pulling air from the bridle return lines. Also, check the blockoff cap on the injector from cylinder number 6. These caps often introduce air into the system.
Another possibility could be that someone adjusted the electrical top part on the injection pump( before your ownership) to the transmission side, thereby making the engine run richer. The ECU tries to compensate for this and a hunting idle is often the consequence. Hope this helps!
@@DailyDrivenClasssics I'd say the smoke is a blue/ grey, if I break loose the injector lines and crank the engine to see if it has any air, do I need to disconnect the starter relay or starter love wire to stop it wanting to run?
@@DailyDrivenClasssics I'm not sure how to adjust the fuel mixture, so maybe a little more research will need to be done, yes I prefilled the filter, bridle lines as in the lines on top of each injector?
@user-ej4cb8qv3j
blueish smoke is usually burning oil. I run black diesel so mine smokes blue all the time but in your case i would check the turbo. If the shaft has excessive play there might be oil getting pushed in the engine. Since diesel engines also run on engine oil this acts as fuel and throws off the idle which would also explain the hunting idle since the ECU tries to compensate. I bled my injectors without pulling any relays or so. I also did it once with the engine running, so no need to worry :)
@user-ej4cb8qv3j
you have an m51 right? they use a bosch VE pump. They usually have an electrical top part with an actuator that can be adjusted by sliding the middle part of the pump back and forward. I wouldn't recommend doing this first since it is really hard to adjust it to a correct value. The correct way would be with diagnostics hooked up to measure minimal injection quantity or to go to a bosch center and let them adjust it. Briddle lines are are the tiny lines going from injector to injector and from the first injector to the return on the injection pump.