Join the Road to A club on Zwift, once there's enough people we will start doing rides and races! Here's the link or simply search for "Road to A" in the Companion app: zwift.com/clubs/073fb18e-ae9b-440e-b4c3-d95d935898c1/home
I'm sure I'm not the only person to suggest this, but I wonder if Zwift should add specific tags to races, i.e., Sprint, Climb, Enduro, and All-rounder. That way, users can build a score in a particular race style. You could be a Cat C climber but a Cat B sprinter. Also, it's a way of bringing weight into the equation without it being the main focus, and it will encourage people to find/train to their riding style.
I’ve done some of the races in this series. They are incredibly hard. The range of the categories made it near impossible to do well and with my old score I was 510. Always finished mid pack. Not sure what my new score is as I haven’t raced for two weeks. But i still really enjoyed the races trying to compete with others. I was never going to podium but yes, it was fun trying to compete. The Zwift score doesn’t really bother me at all. It is what it is. I just get on with it and enjoy racing no matter what happens.
Almost pipped at the line! 😅 Good work! I like your idea of larger groups via less categories considering the drafting dynamics give one the ability to hang with a bunch as long as their withing ~1 w/kg.
Isn’t the concept for Tours that all the best climbers, sprinters, time trialists, breakaway riders, single day riders, and overall contenders, would have their days to shine, but no one type dominated every single stage. Eventually you know who you’re competing against for a jersey or compete for which stages. Now the tours seem to be dominated by the climbers, when back in the 90’s they won their polkadot jersey but weren’t winning the yellow jersey.
@@robertnobles8189 Sure, but I don't know if you can apply such logic to Zwift racing and have a satisfied community. Most riders will always blame the system and not their phenotype when not performing.
People will only be happy with a system that puts them at the top third of their category. Where ever you draw the line, outside of the top category, we could all be at the bottom of our category. “One man’s ceiling is another man’s floor” applies. The top of one category is really just the bottom of the next until you get to the roof.
@@robertnobles8189 I agree, to an extent. Even people at the bottom of a category should have opportunity to have fun and compete (notice that I say "compete", not "win"). I don't think current bottom 350-520 riders have that chance tbh.
@ Tell me about it. I enjoyed winning when I started on Zwift, but now I’m hovering just over ZRS 700 and have to hope for a very small field to have a chance at a top ten finish. But another complaint is that the top categories don’t have enough participants. Targeting only races that fit your phenotype leads to small fields. That’s why I suggest more short tours like a Friday to Sunday, 5 stage race. Throw a stage in for as many phenotypes as possible and change it up each weekend.
Here’s the answer: keep the racing score, but randomise the categories. Sometimes 100-300, sometimes 200-400, sometimes 150-350, etc. That way there will more frequently be a category that you are in the top 10% of.
Interesting thought! Though I'd much rather to see the categories to adjust based on the number of people who entered the race (so the relative amount of people in all categories is similar).
@@eugenecourant1980 Age isn't relevant really on Zwift (besides probably the e-sport competitions), older folks can easily beat younger ones. Doing that would only make the races emptier.
@ But even in real life are heavier riders often faster on flat terrain as they can usually develop higher raw power. Or maybe I am misunderstanding your point?
Zwift doesn't have age groups in the races, which makes winning easier. It's similar with Strava, where there are no "age group Koms" with their own crown.
@@ThePeter123a I am not sure I understand your point - even older person can be better than a younger person. Age is more of a limiting factor for heavy training rather than when you are already in the pen.
Not sure but, looks like u should work on a more rapid explosion of yourself, the way it felt via the screen - took a century. Also, why u finished being on the hoods? :) Keep going!
@@HanDron1 what do you mean by rapid explosion? You mean at the sprint? As for the hoods, yea, that's my weakness. I never learned to use drops properly, even when descending outdoors I often ride on the hoods. I try to force it lately to really get feel for it but it still feels unnatural.
Just a personal comment , in the pro peleton , real world , not everyone wins , very few win , enjoy being a journeyman , zwift sucks , and , it is what it is , find your enjoyment
I have never won or even podiumed and I am fine with that, just don't want to lose by 4 minutes when my race score gives the idea I should be challenging. lol
In Cat “C” I’m now seeing riders getting dropped out of the group and not making it back on when it is flat (no attack just the pace is too fast) or when its a slight (10 second) incline 1-2% this does not happen in the pro peloton. This is not about being a bad loser obviously not everyone can win and there will always be people dropped on climbs but if there are defined categories for racing then you expect a group of similar abilities and you should also expect to get to at least the half way point in the main group. with the new scoring you see a much wider range of abilities and in my experience I’m seeing people get dropped in the first few km and I’m having to go flat out to stay in the bunch and always get dropped on the first climb or when someone attacks (this didn’t happen before). Whats the point of racing then to do a 15 minute flat out effort to try and stay in the wheels then ride for 25 minutes on your own to finish the race (might as well do a group ride).
Agree completely with these comments. I was scored at 351 yesterday and rode a crit city race in C. Was dropped on the first lap and finished dead last. 20 minute power was 4.4w/kg to 3.8w/kg for most of the group in front (my 20 minute was 3.0 w/kg). I’m back in D now and I’ve seen they are looking to change the category parameters from 30/12? I’m not interested in winning, have no sprint but I’d like to at least be competitive and in the bunch close to the end.
No its not.. Previous version was 4 cats with sometimes a possible 5th as Cat E used to get used at A+. This is talking about 3 cats. In theory it makes sense as you are trying to populate the 3 categories. Honestly though the solution is more what IndieVelo now TrainingPeaks Virtual has. When you enter a race all you should see is total entries. No selecting cats at all. Close the pen 1 min before and then based on rider entries and race scores it works out the best mix of cats based on who entered to try and allow for the best competition. So sometimes you might enter and be Cat 3 for example but sometimes you could end up in Cat 2 or even Cat 4 depending on volume of entries and the best mix. By not showing a breakdown of Cats before a race this would stop Cat A riders from going oh no one ever enters the race and I am not going to enter when there is only 4 people currently as they wouldn't even know that (this is after 50 other cat A riders said the same thing and if they all actually just entered they would of had 54 riders)
@@rkclime4 it's not. In the previous category system you were assigned into a group based on your FTP and your MAP (about 5 minute power). You then stayed in that group until you improved or the activities influencing these parameters dropped out of your 30 day window.
Join the Road to A club on Zwift, once there's enough people we will start doing rides and races!
Here's the link or simply search for "Road to A" in the Companion app: zwift.com/clubs/073fb18e-ae9b-440e-b4c3-d95d935898c1/home
@@RoadtoA I was just wondering, is your goal still to get to A cat, knowing how the new system works?
I'm sure I'm not the only person to suggest this, but I wonder if Zwift should add specific tags to races, i.e., Sprint, Climb, Enduro, and All-rounder. That way, users can build a score in a particular race style. You could be a Cat C climber but a Cat B sprinter. Also, it's a way of bringing weight into the equation without it being the main focus, and it will encourage people to find/train to their riding style.
@@FraserSamuel That's a good idea, however, I guess there would be another issue with how to classify individual races
I’ve done some of the races in this series. They are incredibly hard. The range of the categories made it near impossible to do well and with my old score I was 510. Always finished mid pack. Not sure what my new score is as I haven’t raced for two weeks. But i still really enjoyed the races trying to compete with others. I was never going to podium but yes, it was fun trying to compete. The Zwift score doesn’t really bother me at all. It is what it is. I just get on with it and enjoy racing no matter what happens.
@paulmccafferty4850 It shocked me how hard the effort was (even on flats, there was barely a rest(. Really fun gathering of competitive riders though!
Almost pipped at the line! 😅 Good work!
I like your idea of larger groups via less categories considering the drafting dynamics give one the ability to hang with a bunch as long as their withing ~1 w/kg.
@@Me_Hall I timed the attack at the prestigous 45th place really well.
😂😂
Great finish!
@@cyclingcomputer thank you!
Isn’t the concept for Tours that all the best climbers, sprinters, time trialists, breakaway riders, single day riders, and overall contenders, would have their days to shine, but no one type dominated every single stage.
Eventually you know who you’re competing against for a jersey or compete for which stages.
Now the tours seem to be dominated by the climbers, when back in the 90’s they won their polkadot jersey but weren’t winning the yellow jersey.
@@robertnobles8189 Sure, but I don't know if you can apply such logic to Zwift racing and have a satisfied community.
Most riders will always blame the system and not their phenotype when not performing.
Level up 42, 83% for my tron bike. New Jersey and disc wheel. 400m climbing. 😊
People will only be happy with a system that puts them at the top third of their category. Where ever you draw the line, outside of the top category, we could all be at the bottom of our category.
“One man’s ceiling is another man’s floor” applies. The top of one category is really just the bottom of the next until you get to the roof.
@@robertnobles8189 I agree, to an extent. Even people at the bottom of a category should have opportunity to have fun and compete (notice that I say "compete", not "win"). I don't think current bottom 350-520 riders have that chance tbh.
@ Tell me about it. I enjoyed winning when I started on Zwift, but now I’m hovering just over ZRS 700 and have to hope for a very small field to have a chance at a top ten finish. But another complaint is that the top categories don’t have enough participants. Targeting only races that fit your phenotype leads to small fields. That’s why I suggest more short tours like a Friday to Sunday, 5 stage race. Throw a stage in for as many phenotypes as possible and change it up each weekend.
Here’s the answer: keep the racing score, but randomise the categories. Sometimes 100-300, sometimes 200-400, sometimes 150-350, etc. That way there will more frequently be a category that you are in the top 10% of.
Interesting thought! Though I'd much rather to see the categories to adjust based on the number of people who entered the race (so the relative amount of people in all categories is similar).
Hallo waarom wordt er niet in ouderdoms categorien gereden zoals bij de uci op de weg?
@@eugenecourant1980 Age isn't relevant really on Zwift (besides probably the e-sport competitions), older folks can easily beat younger ones. Doing that would only make the races emptier.
Good effort 👌 amazing great video 😊
Thank you!
If you are a heavy rider you’re gonna fall behind in most cases whether its zwift or real racing.
On flat courses the heavier riders have an advantage over lighter ones.
@oh!, that doesn’t make sense they should just simulate real life physics and stop trying shenanigans.
@ But even in real life are heavier riders often faster on flat terrain as they can usually develop higher raw power.
Or maybe I am misunderstanding your point?
@ im sorry i am new to cycling I didn’t know that thanks for the info, and for taking the time to explain.
@ No problem mate.;) That's why we are here - so we can discuss, clarify...
Zwift doesn't have age groups in the races, which makes winning easier.
It's similar with Strava, where there are no "age group Koms" with their own crown.
@@ThePeter123a I am not sure I understand your point - even older person can be better than a younger person. Age is more of a limiting factor for heavy training rather than when you are already in the pen.
Don't get the point here at all 61 is just a number
@@shazzalarkin9569 Heck yea!
@@ThePeter123a Us oldies (I’m closing in on 60) just can’t race as often as the younger ones do! We need our recovery 😏
Don't think I agree John larkin 61 zwift power
More Mass Cat starts i say
@@joshvillen I'd like that actually.
This is the answer.
If I’m in the correct category I know that I will never ever win a race (if there are enough riders) and I don’t give a f#… Just enjoy tough racing!
@@Rabbitnl I love that attitude!
Not sure but, looks like u should work on a more rapid explosion of yourself, the way it felt via the screen - took a century. Also, why u finished being on the hoods? :) Keep going!
@@HanDron1 what do you mean by rapid explosion? You mean at the sprint?
As for the hoods, yea, that's my weakness. I never learned to use drops properly, even when descending outdoors I often ride on the hoods. I try to force it lately to really get feel for it but it still feels unnatural.
Was in this race and had a mechanical 😅.
@@hbmedia4381 ouch. Connection problems or snapped chain?
Just do n categories for n zwift racers. That way everyone wins. Seems to be what people want.
hehe
Just switch to ROUVY and problem is sloved 😅
Just a personal comment , in the pro peleton , real world , not everyone wins , very few win , enjoy being a journeyman , zwift sucks , and , it is what it is , find your enjoyment
I have never won or even podiumed and I am fine with that, just don't want to lose by 4 minutes when my race score gives the idea I should be challenging. lol
In Cat “C” I’m now seeing riders getting dropped out of the group and not making it back on when it is flat (no attack just the pace is too fast) or when its a slight (10 second) incline 1-2% this does not happen in the pro peloton. This is not about being a bad loser obviously not everyone can win and there will always be people dropped on climbs but if there are defined categories for racing then you expect a group of similar abilities and you should also expect to get to at least the half way point in the main group. with the new scoring you see a much wider range of abilities and in my experience I’m seeing people get dropped in the first few km and I’m having to go flat out to stay in the bunch and always get dropped on the first climb or when someone attacks (this didn’t happen before). Whats the point of racing then to do a 15 minute flat out effort to try and stay in the wheels then ride for 25 minutes on your own to finish the race (might as well do a group ride).
@@flamingstu That has been my experience in this race, I struggled to stay with the front even on flats (and sometimes downhills).
Agree completely with these comments. I was scored at 351 yesterday and rode a crit city race in C. Was dropped on the first lap and finished dead last. 20 minute power was 4.4w/kg to 3.8w/kg for most of the group in front (my 20 minute was 3.0 w/kg). I’m back in D now and I’ve seen they are looking to change the category parameters from 30/12? I’m not interested in winning, have no sprint but I’d like to at least be competitive and in the bunch close to the end.
@ I didn't have the courage to enter that crit city race. 🤣🤣
What you are talking about is the same as the previous version of the racing categories. So I don't get your point!
Hehe
No its not.. Previous version was 4 cats with sometimes a possible 5th as Cat E used to get used at A+. This is talking about 3 cats. In theory it makes sense as you are trying to populate the 3 categories.
Honestly though the solution is more what IndieVelo now TrainingPeaks Virtual has. When you enter a race all you should see is total entries. No selecting cats at all. Close the pen 1 min before and then based on rider entries and race scores it works out the best mix of cats based on who entered to try and allow for the best competition. So sometimes you might enter and be Cat 3 for example but sometimes you could end up in Cat 2 or even Cat 4 depending on volume of entries and the best mix. By not showing a breakdown of Cats before a race this would stop Cat A riders from going oh no one ever enters the race and I am not going to enter when there is only 4 people currently as they wouldn't even know that (this is after 50 other cat A riders said the same thing and if they all actually just entered they would of had 54 riders)
@@rkclime4 it's not. In the previous category system you were assigned into a group based on your FTP and your MAP (about 5 minute power). You then stayed in that group until you improved or the activities influencing these parameters dropped out of your 30 day window.