Why is the Honkai Series so Confusing?! - Translation and Terminology Issues Explained
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ย. 2024
- Have you ever wondered how all the HoYoverse games like Genshin Impact, Honkai: Star Rail, and Honkai Impact 3rd are connected? Why do we have variants of the same character in different games? Or why do so many of the games share identical concepts? Well, if you said "yes", then this video series is for you. Welcome to 'Exploring the Honkai Universe', a five-part video series meant to explore different facets of the Honkai Universe, trying to explain how all the HoYoverse games are connected on a Cosmological level.
This is the first video in the series and it will address the various issues with the translation of the games and the inconsistent use of terminology. These issues make it almost impossible to obtain solid evidence to connect the games, unless… we use the CN text instead of the English one. With that in mind, this video uses the CN text and terminology to point out connections between the game and explain why the EN translation has so many errors that may provide a misleading image when trying to tackle the Cosmology of the Honkai series.
As the series progresses, more videos explaining the Honkai Universe and its structure will come out. I want to note that this video series is a long-time project that I will be working on in the following months, together with other video projects that are relevant to the current lore of the game.
I also want to thank the entire Hoyostans community for their help with this series, especially when it came to digging up information about GGZ! Hoyostans is a community of dedicated HoYoverse fans, who offer in-depth coverage of their games, with a ton of guides and fun trivia. They have the most complete story guide for Honkai Impact 3rd and are constantly adding new information. So, go check them out!
ㅇ Hoyostans website: hoyostans.be/
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Sources:
ㅇ Exploring the Honkai Universe: hoyostans.be/e...
ㅇ Hoyodex - Terminology of the Honkai Universe: hoyodex.mirahe...
ㅇ Star Rail - Lore FAQ Doc: docs.google.co...
ㅇ Mihoyo's CEO confirming Genshin is in the Honkai Universe (KerubielZ) : • Mihoyo's CEO confirmin...
ㅇ Genshin Wiki - Rex Incognito: genshin-impact...
Music:
Cinematic Documentary Violin by Infraction No Copyright Music Innerbloom: • Cinematic Documentary ...
You might also be interested in:
ㅇ What is FINALITY? - A Comprehensive Guide to Understanding the HONKAI • What is FINALITY? - A ...
ㅇ A Beginner's Guide to Honkai Star Rail's Lore • A Beginner's Guide to ...
ㅇ A Look Into Himeko's Character through the Honkai Series • A Look Into Himeko's C...
Honkai External Materials:
ㅇ Durandal Visual Novel zklm.github.io...
ㅇ Alien Space Manga manga.honkaiim...
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![[2.2] Death of the Sweet Dream: The Complete Story of Penacony - Honkai: Star Rail Lore](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WzyW7FjuwIU/mqdefault.jpg)
This video literally took the soul of out me, but in the end, it was worth it. I am very happy that I was finally able to bring this series out. More parts will come soon. Part 2 will talk about the history of the Honkai Universe: from its inception back in the GGZ days, until the current form that we've seen recently in HSR.
Thank you!
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Will you be making something about captaiverse?
Yes I will. I don't known when yet.
I already did dingyue to you.
@@HomuLabs I think after making a video about the latest chapter would be a good idea
Gosh darn you, the only Chinese word you didn’t butcher is Dingyue (Subscribe )
I am a Chinese viewer, thanks for the video!
I want to point out that the confusion around the galaxy/universe/world stemmed from the Chinese language itself and the culture. There are still A LOT of Chinese people who mix them up today (using those words in general, even without talking about the game). It is probably NOT the translator's fault because I believe A LOT of Chinese people still can't distinguish the meaning of those words in Chinese.
the cosmos’ terms are difficult and confusing for everyone who don’t get too much into it, i used to mess them up in my language, too
I just assumed they thought the Galaxy was the Universe and vise versa
As a Chinese viewer,
no way waifus with chinese names
所以，应该是一个世界里有多宇宙一个宇宙里有很多星系…吧…？
@@siyuren7723no. Universe is the big one. Many galaxies live in a universe and multiple world in one galaxy
"Unrealiable narrator" technique really good by concept,
because we actually see character could be wrong, use theory to explain things, and adding realism to the character.
But yeah sometimes is confusing AF
tbh, it's just excuse device so they can retcon things again and again, Honkai Impact 3 and GGZ has been retconned multiple times
The unreliable narrator plays a dual role in every story, with both positive and negative aspects. On one hand, it enriches world-building, adding a sense of realism. Conversely, it causes confusion among those who fail to pay attention and accept the narrative as absolute truth.
I'm seeing people still believing that Cecilia died during the 2nd Eruption because she was weakened after childbirth. Understandably, not everyone reads the manga, or if they do, they get confused because they were first exposed to Schicksal propaganda and HoV's attempt to rage-bait Kiana in the game. Not to forget that HoV get the dates wrong (probably her time perception was screwed up by being asleep for so long). In the early chapters, you can see the unreliable narrator at its best. The manga reflects events as they occurred, while the game offers perspectives tinged by characters' ulterior motives.
Parallels can be drawn to real life, where countries mold history to align with their agendas. When conflicts exist between neighboring nations, historical accounts can be reshaped to vilify the other party. Instances exist where certain countries deny genocides and specific events, despite global awareness of such occurrences. Furthermore, mass media perpetuates sensationalism, often disseminating misinformation. Painting a distant country in a negative light via media outlets, featuring exaggerated or false allegations, serves as an effective way to garner attention from individuals seeking self-validation.
This parallels the Schicksal propaganda in the initial chapters and Theresa's chronicles. They are a powerful organization that is trying to hide many skeletons in the closet. The players will be exposed to that false information and will take it for granted because they will not research further. The same happens in Genshin with many truths being hidden from the common folk, including books that were banned by higher divine forces.
Can you put an example of an unreliable narrator in the early chapter?
They are a lot more clear in Star Rail with mentioning when they are explaining a THEORY or that it's a historical record from someones point of view. Or the character very often mention that tbh they don't know what they are talking about. Feels like a feedback from previous games.
...I thought Cecilia did die in the second eruption tho?
@@nicolaivisashi4708Like she did But she let herself die to Stay with Sirin in her last Space-Time
@@Zino_Kohiruimaki ah, okay. thought i wasn't forgetting things
That Planet dialogue got me confused lol, Vita said she come from Mars and then when Susannah said Venus, Vita just agreed
Yeah, that's a mistranslation. She is from Venus, nor Mars.
I agree. I'm from Spain and I was like"Huh?! Maybe I have to take more English classes..?"
Soo technically Welt can Go home but choose not to because he will get killed by Tesla..
He says that the Express doesn't have Earth on it's records, so we can assume that there is no star rail connecting Earth to the rest of the Universe yet. Because of this, he must find another way home since the Express cannot get there. He also said that he asked Herta to send a message to his family on Earth to let then know that he is alright.
Woah where did it say he asked Herta to send a message? Was it a data bank entry? @@HomuLabs
@@HomuLabs imagine Kiana being the Aeon Terminus (Theory) and the Astral Express crew except Welt was shock to meet at Actual Aeon in Human Form. I would love to see there reactions..
@@tidehunterzamora9315 I think it's more likely that she's an emanator, since finality has existed long before Kiana.
@Aasokeo It's in one of his dialogue lines on the Express. I don't remember exactly right now when, but I'll look into it when I have a bit of time and come back with an edit.
Here is the generally accepted explanation in the CN community, star rail is by far the largest scale when it comes to the Hoyo multiverse, which can be simply put as the whole Imaginary tree, so no multiple trees. The whole Multiverse thing is a mistranslation and a misuse of worlds.
世界(world) is generally just a planet or a star system or a gigantic space vessel. These are the leaves on the TREE.
宇宙(universe) is the whole of imaginary tree, the whole of known existence of the material dimension.
星系(galaxy) is a star rail exclusive for rhetorical purposes due to its space Sci-fi theme, it’s almost interchangeable with 世界(world)
Between worlds or galaxies are a barrier consisted of Imaginary energy, the only known way to travel consistently between the barriers is the star rail made by Akilivi the Trailblaze. (The space ship that brings Welt on to the star rail is another, but that seems like a one time use thing)
So that’s why we got 2 Bronyas in star rail, they are from different galaxies or if you want to say different worlds.
I thought all of _HSR_ is a single bubble universe (leaf) on the Imaginary Tree (which is also why we _wouldn't_ have a crossover between it and the other games, unless others came through with similar methods to what brought Welt and Void Archives). Remember: each bubble world (universe) is a leaf on the Imaginary Tree. Bronie, Magical Girl Sirin, Kongming, Rosemary, and Delta all come from their own bubble worlds that were in the process of dissolving into the Sea of Quanta, but they were also once on the Imaginary.
Actually there is another ship that can travel between world and that is the captain hyperion in honkai impact 3rd. After all he keeps travelling one world to another but there is also another ship that can also travel between world and that ship belong to one of that ninja yae organization. At least we can see that ninja yae organization clash with captain organization. Anyway i'm excited to see what will happen if star rail express meet with either both of those organization.
@@BNuts that's not really the case, HSR has a bigger scale and it mentioned traversing the imaginary space from world to world multiple time. Welt mentions the only reason he can't go back to his home world is because the star rail doesn't reach there. Herta also has a curio that is from Teyvat (wing glider)
@@BNuts You are a victim of the misstranslations. Bubble worlds are not leafs of the imaginary tree, they are parts of the Sea of Quanta which is a releated, but separate entity. It's called "bubble world" not "world" for a reason.
Imagine a tree submarged under water. The water is Sea of Quanta, the tree is Imaginary Tree, leafs are worlds, and watter bubbles are bubble worlds.
Didn't the latest chapter show Kiana holding two whole bubble universes? It had it's own galaxies and stars and planets. And those are the ones that fell from the leaves of the tree that went into the Sea of Quanta.
You know it's a good day when theres a HOMU LABS Video. I'm curious if you'll make a Summary/Chronological Order of the Captainverse Storyline now that it's coming to a close according to the CN Livestream.
Yes, I will. I don't know when yet.
That's quite the hard series to make. I have 1100 days on the games, but I'm still positive that I've missed at least 30% of what happened there. There's just so many events that brushed just a little bit of the captain-verse without actually going in.
For example, many people insist that the very event that involved the "Captain" is some event called "Rita's Birthday Date" or something like that. I actually don't remember this event. From my perspective, the very first (at least in the chronology) event that involved the "Captain" is the Sanguine Nights event. That event that involved Luna (not Tericula), the one who's returning in the latest event.
That's only one part of a very big clusterfuck of events. There are many many more confusing events that for some reason is part of the captain-verse. Like that one time "Captain" somehow got Seele's diary while she was still stuck in the Sea of Quanta. There was also that whole event retcon of "Captain" being "split into halves" that got completely busted off the script.
So yeah, captain-verse very mind-fuckery.
Wait it's ending?
Search Sacron in Hoyolabs he already make summary in chronological order .
I’m pretty sure Tericula’s story is ending, NOT Captainverse
Mihoyo really should get a style guide together for the different loc houses they work with so that there is consistency for all the proper nouns
That and Mihoyo should really stop using the same word for multiple conspects in CN.
@@danishsyed1068As a Chinese person, I must disagree. There are multiple meanings in English for a single word in Chinese, and vice versa. For example, we all use the word “play” to describe sports, but in Chinese they often use different words for different sports.
People really get confused a lot because they want an instant explanation and just go with one thing that they hear from a character and don't consider anything else. This video is really great, showing many of the misconceptions and errors.
The Honkai universe is the best example of "you need to read everything if you want to get the whole picture" that I have encountered since The Elder Scrolls' lore. And while it takes so much more work to understand the lore that way, unreliable narration as applied to lore adds so much nuance and depth that a straight up encyclopedic retelling of the lore would completely miss. When one history in a TES game contradicts or straight up negates another, seperate history, that provides the reader not with a problem, but instead with an added layer of humanity, depth, and bias which deepens the reader's understanding of the culture that wrote said history, and by the same token, whenever you get a contradiction or falsehood told to you in a Honkai game, that adds a sense of depth to that character and hints to the player that what is going on is something that is almost lovecraftian in how much we don't--and *cant*--understand.
Very well put! While sometimes frustrating (especially as someone who's into the lore) I agree that the unreliable narration adds a sort of unique flair and makes the characters and the worlds feel more alive and real.
@@HomuLabs I have a question is the leaves of imaginary tree one world specifically or an entire solar system or an entire galaxy? Cause HI3 well they can travel to the other planets within the solar system but they are still within their respective leaves or am I wrong here.
There is no exact boundary. The text in HSR refers to the leaves (worlds) on the Tree as Star Clusters. That implies that they can house many Stars Systems, or galaxies. If I remember correctly, Tesla even references other galaxies as part of the main "world" of HI3 in some of the manga. So, to answer your question, a "leaf"/"branch"/"world" can at least house multiple galaxies.
@@HomuLabs Now here is my next question why tf does Nanook not create more Emanators nothing is stopping him from doing so. And from what we saw from Phanytila who outclasses JY by a large margin and Jing Yuan is one of the strongest known Emanators of the hunt which at least should account for at least the one of the top 5 strongest in lore and keep in mind JY had the help of a pseudo herrscher. Nanook's main goal is to destroy the Imaginary tree so wouldn't it be faster if he just made more than 7 emanators since the weakest of them can destroy galaxies.
@@Ilikegames804it seems you have to prove your worthiness to the Aeon to be considered an Emanator, and Nanook likely has very specific standards
When you say the "WORLD" meant different things or can scale depending on what scale you are referring to or where you are on that moment. Like if i say "this world" where im in Earth, means im referring world as earth, but i can also refer to the universe, or galxy or star system depending on the context. Things change when you not even in a planet. Lets say, you are inside the astral express in the middle of space. When I said "this world" its pretty basic that im not referring to a planet since im in the middle of a galaxy or star system or even universe. Anyway its pretty important to also understand this factor as things are more confusing since there are characters that use world that are not in a planet or colony. The fact that their writers are not aligned on the terms used tells me that even the chinese version are not even accurate. Which tells me that they have to start getting aligned there.. the Honkaiverse is an amazing concept but due to these inconsistencies, it creates misunderstanding and also debates the same how we describe life in based on our own experience. Unless thats intentional hehehe
Yeah, that's why I said that it's important to use context clues to figure out what they mean when they use it in a certain manner.
Yeah I’m bilingual but not a native Chinese speaker, and using sometimes the same words in diff context I would definitely translate differently ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ English is somewhat too flexible and lends itself easily to hyperbolic or artistic interpretation
“Congratulations Steve, you’re a #%^€ing Normie!” Bruh I haven’t burst out laughing like that in a minute
The tight schedule and lack of information arent really good reasons for a bad localization for multiple reasons:
1. Contrast to what most people think, localization in a company tends to be handled way before the update/product are released. So they have at least 2 to 3 months to fix and proof read whatever they are localizing.
2. Consistency also isnt a big issue unless they dont read properly or discuss with eachother beforehand. Because the localization team tends to get infos like way before the update is even announced, thats why in other languages the infos are extremely consistent, the problem seems to only lie in English as other languages like French and Vietnamese are fairly consistent with their translations and use of words, rarely making mistakes. If they ever make mistakes it will tend to be just ones where you can interprete it in 2 ways.
3. Also a lot of things tend to get lost if they dont localize properly or try to make it sound as close as the og possible. One good example is Welt explaining power in SR. The English over complicated it and made people boogle their mind while in fact its just "materialize the working principles of something into reality". Its that simple and explains a lot of things doesn't it? But the english translation over complicated by trying make it sound cool and sci-fi like the og.
The main problem with English localization isnt that its bad, its that it just sounds way too formal and fancy a lot of time but a lot of parts dont need fanciness or formality and just needs daily convo stuffs but they did it anyways to try and replicate the "ancientness" of China while a lot of times its just made for casual stuffs. Its mostly likely because they are afraid they wont be able to convey fully the meaning of the sentence due to cultural differences. Afterall the games are designed by mostly Chinese people targetting the humor and cultural sense of people belonging to East Asian Cultures. If you can read either chinese, japanese, korean or vietnamese, you will find yourself able to enjoy the dialouges in SR/Genshin a lot more because they dont need to sound fancy to convey the meanings due to cultural similarities.
One good example is Jingliu, while yes she speaks pretty formally but she can go pretty harsh and be ironic a lot of times but in English she sounds full formal. But the translation or localization isnt wrong. Its simply because outside of the 4 countries belonging to the east asian cultural spheres, the concepts and the way she talks sound just way too formal for normal dialouges because people outside the sphere simply dont talk that way. While in the sphere people when reading her dialouges will process it as ""Oh shes speaking formally but also very casually, showing the ancientness but the casualness of her personality". To them its nothing more than just casual dialouges but with a bit of ancientness in it while to people outside it will sound like they are having a spar to death like those gun battles in the wild west
Can't wait to watch this once I catch up to the story since I'm playing it now, I'll be completing chapter 17 today and was told this video will spoil me to the new arc so I will hold off for now. Keep up the great content man, your videos are a godsend.
Thanks, man! Love you reactions! Good luck with catching up to the game! It's quite a journey, especially in the latest chapters!
Yea good that somebody warned you XD
Did this video really spoil anything? Let me watch it again.
EDIT: Ok, yeah he does show two scenes very briefly and does talk about MEI's explanation of Honkai. Otherwise nothing else, but yeah its spoilers since you haven't seen it.
Chapter 17 was a good one
the mad man, he's actually doing it.
Appreciate the effort homu !
To everyone one in the comments please share this in every lore subreddit and lore youtuber, to clear up misconceptions in the community
omg finally, i dont have to spend hours explaining to anyone how the games connect despite the different terminology they use.
The language barrier was always a problem that only got worse with the release of star rail, as a none chinese speaker i couldnt even try to understand it myself had to rely on the community to explain the issues.
(big shout out to all the translators in the community that always tried to fix this mess)
its always been easier to explain it as tree and leaves and leave the rest to a player's interpretation, but now thanks to mr homu can just link this video and save myself the work lol.
great video and amazing effort tbh, if mihoyo wont help us with the language barrier ig the fans has to take care of it, cant wait for the rest of the series mr homu
Dont be like Steve. Join the Honkai impact crew (or other game idk)
I am so happy you made this video. this is something that has been ENDLESSLY debated in lore channels/forums and there is so much misinfo spreading around due to the numerous inconsistences (due to lore reworking like especially between the GGZ and early HI3 days compared to now) and numerous translation errors I'm so happy someone finally laid it all out for the community!
Thank you so much for your hard work! This probably took forever to put together...
Just know that all of us lore enthusiasts truly appreciate your Herculean efforts! o7
This will probably end up being my favourite video series yet, if this first part is any indication.
(Make sure not to overwork yourself in pursuit of this masterpiece, alright? xD)
Thank you! The series will probably be done over the next couple of months. I plan to take my time with it as much as possible.
@@HomuLabs I'm glad to hear it! Take as much time as you need, we'll all be patient :D
please continue making this kinda vid sir,.. hard to find good Honkai content creators this days
THANK YOU Homu for clearing this up. Some dude on Twitter said "it's worlds not universes" a few months back, and when everyone started questioning them and genuinely looking for their reason to think that, dude just started calling everyone dumbasses for not already knowing, like there wasn't a legit reason why everyone thought it was a multiverse. Thank you for actually explaining this and pointing out the translation errors.
We have seen Vyn’s card stack in star rail but not sure if it’s them just adding as Easter egg or more to add to multiverse and not to mention Pela’s phone cover, also the time line of ToT is 2030, Star rail is shortly after 2029 (alien space manga where welt was there linking Apho and star rail around same time) and as for genshin we for most know the divalin when Otto saw him in the story
Yeah, I know. But, unlike Genshin, we don't have any statements from the devs themselves that confirm that fact, so I chose to be safe and not to include it. But, most likely, both ToT and ZZZ are also part of the Honkai Universe.
@@HomuLabs you mean... The hoyoverse???
@@HomuLabsthe fischl collab could confirm the same timeline maybe?
@@wazowskikeith2350are collabs even canon especially the Aloy one?
That was some serious attention to detail and that massive amount of effort is definitely appreciated. That was some of the best explanations for why translation can be so complicated, thank you for how much you put into this.
I will subscribe and be tuned in for more.
HI3 is a emotional damage while GGZ is a mental breakdown
OH MY GOD. BUBBLE UNIVERSE IS SUPPOSED TO BE BUBBLE WORLD??? I STARTED SCREAMING AFTER YOU TELLING US THIS HOLY SHIT I SHIULD’VE USED MY CHINESE BRAIN MORE AAAAAAA THAT MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO AND I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE REST OF THIS SERIES!!! I love hoyo’s games a lot but my god, with English as my 1st language and Chinese as a lousy 3rd, I’m so so confused by how their cosmology works and this series and this whole channel is truly SUCH A BLESSING and I LOVE IT!!! Thank you SO MUCH for your content!!!
Damn, this changes everything about yhe understanding of Honkai Journey. For a long time I thought IMG Tree is a multiverse and Welt is going to another universe not just Worlds/Planets.
But then what was Otto doing to IMG Tree? He's supposed to make more timelines where Kallen lives right? If so making new worlds are not enough cause it's not really a new time line is it?
The simplest explanation about Otto and is plan is that Otto manipulated the "branches" of the Imaginary Tree that contained Earth to split at the exact moment Kallen was supposed to die and create a new timeline where she lived instead. Keep in mind that the usage of the words "branches" and "leaves" can be interchanged depending on who is talking. Otto mostly used branches in the Kolosten Arc so I mimicked his analogy. Other characters may use different terms to refer to the same term.
Ain't no way I just watched a whole 27 minutes of video explaining the context of the words "worlds" and "universe" throughout 4 different-yet-still-somewhat-related games 😂
Homu, this series might save me from hospitalization.
Jokes aside, I feel like I’ve been going insane with my constant obsession over the honkaiverse and how the games connect while seemingly no one else is talking about all these glaring connections, especially after Star Rail’s release and _especially_ after the Salt Snow Holy City arc, and here you are with this series to finally prove (and disprove) the points floating around in my head. Thank you very much for your hard work, I can’t wait to see what you have in store for the rest of this series!!
This video explains so much about almost a lot of stuff I don't know, you've done your homework, amazing research, this really got more interesting, now I'm more aware on the Honkai verse, sure it gets confusing but it's fun to understand what differences and similarities will bring us to the table, this video needs more views pronto!
I am a native Chinese and would like to share some usage of the terms/words mentioned in the video.
World (世界) and Universe (宇宙):
First of all, these two words in Chinese share a very similar meaning, sometimes even identical, depending on the situation.
世界 (World) is combined by two characters, regarding time(世) and space(界). Similarly, for 宇宙 (Universe), the two characters are regarding space(宇) and time(宙) (yes, the order is reversed but no harm to meaning). So both of them literally mean "time and space", and extend to "everything in all time and space".
In daily speaking or abstract way, the two words sometimes can be mixed. Therefore multiverse, or parallel universe (平行宇宙), in Chinese has the same meaning as "parallel world" (平行世界). So when the Chinese word "世界" appears, it cannot simply translate to "world", but need to look at the context. That's why "bubble universe(世界泡)" is not a false translation.
But if these two words are used specifically, then the meaning will be determined as the same as the corresponding translation words in English. For example, one will say "Elon Musk is the richest man in the world (世界)", and "black holes are the most mysterious objects in the universe (宇宙)". Here world (世界) and universe (宇宙) are unlikely to be mixed.
星海 (sea of stars)
Basically 星海(sea of stars) is not a precise word, or a term, but a romantic description of space in the eye of people on earth. So a different translation with a similar meaning is acceptable. (such as "sea of ocean")
For the imaginary tree, I am not sure do I misunderstand your meaning, but to me (and the majority I think), different "leafs" exactly mean different universes (no matter in the Chinese version the characters use the word 世界or宇宙). The controversial point is whether the different "worlds" (Honkai Impact, Star Rail and Genshin) is on the same "leafs" or not. Besides that, I believe your understanding and explanation of those terms and Chinese words is almost perfect.
HomuLabs' explanation makes much more sense
Because that explains whatever is in hsr and in hi3...it also explains why Herta can easily send signals to the welt world...because basically they are just different planets/galaxies?Not until the universe is different
The absence of any feat to prove that they're universal is in itself proving that they're indeed worlds and not universes .
That's correct 💯
based video really amazing
also what I hate about the honkai community is they keep yapping about retcon when the characters are just saying its a theory and a different perspective OR they can't understand when characters are joking and taking them at face value the post on twitter and spread misinformation for clout
That second part
I can guest Kafka's story quest is the latest of potential false information
If it weren't for hoyotubers pointing shet out
Thank you for this - too many people feel like what the characters say is foolproof and fully understood and far too many actually trust the EN localisation (as if Mars=Venus or Welt=Walter or Gem of Haste = Hem of Desire (happened in 25, is fixed) weren't enough, the whole universe/world thing is here too).
I'm really looking forward to the rest of the series. You're really doing god's work here, I'm happy yu got the determination!
Localizations tends to go too far from the original text itself.
Like those VNs I've read where the Japanese honorifics went none, or some jokes that I don't think I'm hearing it correctly from the audio itself.
Great video Homu! I can see you put a lot of work into it, can't wait for the next part!
Thins video was amazing - as always. Informative, creative and fun to watch. I don't know why but I have always assumed that the leaves of the imaginary tree are different structures/galaxies within one universe. It is very interesting to see the Chinese text saying the same thing and the English translation is wrong there.
By the way, it was nice that you put the translation mistake into the video about Vita being from Mars ("kinsei" meaning Venus) while it was mentioned she's Venusian several times before. 😅
As always you did a great job and I'm excited for the next parts of the series! Thanks for your hard work and dedication!
Usually, Terminology is the important in stories. Its the thing that must have a very clear details.
Maybe Genshin Impact, Honkai: Star Rand, and Honkai Impact 3rd have the same concept but see things differently.
What is Honkai: Star Rand? Sounds interesting 🤣
I can't express how grateful I am for the effort to make such banger vids thnx homu much appreciated
Brilliant video! I'm looking forward to future parts to more fully understand the Honkai Universe :)
Honkai star rail is canon for APHO which is also canon for honkai impact 3. Genshin name has impact just like honkai. But they say differently. Genshin developer is not that generous.
I'm not confused.
I'm frustrated and demoralized. You play the game (especially for me with 6+ years in), you get invested into the game, you eant to know and understand more about it, you get shafted by almost no fault of anybody, because your understanding of things is built on the proverbial equivalent of Chinese "tofu structures". It's like a black pill: give up trying to figure things out, beause the truth is not written in language you happen to understand.
Tbf, I've always kinda glossed past the more to-the-reality terms and tried to understand them contextually. Not "What is it called?", but "What it does?". The things I'd consider terms are more like "Imaginary Tree", "Sea of Quanta", or "Cocoon of Finality", which haven't been mistranslated as far as I can observe from this video.
I want to believe HoYo is aware of this. The latest Honkai chapter has a cute nod to it: People Vita was with referred to Honkai as "the Abyss", and had vastly different names to different classes of Honkai (Abyssal) beasts, so for them to try and communicate with Earth would be challenging.
Damn finally somebody could be bothered to do this, absolutely amazing it must have been hard but this was a massive missing thing in the hoyo community, much respect bro
At last someone explain to me why in Project Stigma arc the english localization use the word "Bubble World" instead of usual Bubble universe. (at first I thought it was a mistranslation)
Homulab even explain the missunderstand of fan that believe Welt travel to different universe while the truth it was just a different world on the same universe.
Homulab explanation also making it easier for us to understand that one of many world in Sea of Quanta is actually a parallel world that also experience their own Honkai disaster.
Inconclusion, there was never a Multiverse event ever happen in any HoYoverse game. Even the highest Imaginary entity itself is just a giant grow up tree that created many Leaf (World).
PS: This also making Captain Bizarre Adventure much more relateable now. Every parallel world he visit is also experiencing their own type of Honkai disaster. It's just they use a different terminology toward Honkai like example "The Dark Lord".
It would help a lot if Hoyo had someone who fills a similar role to what Koji Fox does for the FFXIV team. A localization lead who is directly embedded with the main writing team. Having someone lead the localization of hoyo games who is directly involved with the original chinese writing team would give them exact context to what is trying to be conveyed and could clear a lot of these issues up.
I think the hoyo localization team(s) do the best they can with what they are given, but there is only so much you can do when you are dealing with a story that is as esoteric as Hoyo stories sometimes are, and with languages that are probably more difficult to translate to and from one another than the average.
As a astronomy and cosmology student I needed this video to clear my misconceptions about hoyoverse.
I can understand why these mistakes happened because for ancient chinese people (people who basically made the language) were not sure about the structure of the universe so the galaxy was their 'universe' and our solar system was their 'world'. Now Modern science and English has these new words and the traditional Chinese had to adpat to these changes so thats where confusion happened.
Thank you for making this videos. I can not say it enough how important videos like this are to me. I love HI3rd but I really need more than a little help to understand what is going on.
I've been a fan of yours for a while, and I never quite recognized the accent, but that google quick search revealed it for me... salut si respect !
Mersi! Salut si numa' bine! :D
I know spoilers are very normalized in the Hoyo community, but i still think that your explanations are 100% complete without spoiling stuff like the Otto arc ending. You can put a disclaimer, but people will watch it anyway because they are not sure yet if they are interested in the other games.
Anyways, thank you for this series. Seems like it's aimed at more dedicated fans than casuals. I hope the clarifications will trickle down to casuals slowly. I'm looking forward to future videos.
i totally agree with the translation issue
in french we get some 4th wall breaks like one of flammechaser mentioning a well-known chef in france, and also sometimes a big spelling mistakes, and i see in other language too (vita saying mars instead of venus, wich is correctly translated in french version)
it would be funny if they used multiple types of multiverses ( f.e 1st and 3rd from tegmark classification (vast universe and Everett quantum collaps interpetation))
Thank you very much for this. I am developing a HSR lore masterlist document right now, and I will include this information in it.
My head hurts trying to understand this... but alas someone took on the role of explaining this mess of a story that we all love dearly.
I really like when story and lore is told from perspectives, cos gaining information is more realistic that way.
What Morax said is that there was no "So much ostentatious shapeshifting", that means, that there was not much, but modest shapeshifting, he did not deny shapeshifting, vice versa, he confirmed it, but he said that it was not as common and as ostentatious shapeshifting as it is described in the book, so it was not all a lie, but some events, that were exaggerated and added to the real ones.
Also thank you for your video, understanding of terminology is very important to make sure that everyone speaks the same language.
Ok but how do Aeons work then? I'm assuming it will be explaneid further down the line but if it is a single universe with multiple worlds, then does that mean that theoretically the Aeons are also present in Genshin and in HI3? Because if all the HSR worlds were in a single leaf and thus in their own universe, then it would mean that the Aeons are influencing only those worlds and that universe. But since it isn't the case, and every leaf is a world, that means that Aeons could have authority or could exist even in HI3 earth, Teyvat and GGZ earth. Or maybe I misunderstood some parts of the video and I am spouting nonsense xD
Technically yes, but keep in mind that Aeons are not the only forces of that scale in the Universe. This is something that I will address in the following parts. There are also beings like the Cocoon of Finality from HI3 and the Commander of Will from GGZ that are different from Aeons but have similar "powers"/ are similar in scale. Maybe Aeons intentionally avoid worlds that have Honkai in it because they don't want to deal with it. Also, the recent HI3 chapters showed that even the Sea of Quanta can have similar beings. Aeons seem to be only a part of the Universe, part of which HSR chooses to focus on. It's the same reason why we don't really see Honkai there, because that's the focus in HI3/GGZ and the dev probably don't want to mxi them and confused the playerbase.
@@HomuLabs I also watched the video in wich you explain what Finality is and that gave me a little bit more context since you mentioned Terminus. Anyway thx for the clarification!
@@HomuLabsso is it possible that the primordial one in genshin is an aeon that will be an interesting thing to think about
@@andro5tngl the Primordial One feels more like a being from an advanced civilization that just went and terraformed the home world of Vishaps.
@@andro5t Maybe Yaoshi... 🤔
So that means there could be sometime a Cross-Over between Star Rail and any other Hoyoverse games where the Astral Express visits HI3rd-Earth, GGZ-Earth or Teyvat.
Yeah. We had Asuka in HI3 though the Sea of Quanta. Anything in possible.
@@HomuLabs according to leaks mei and sakura should also get playable in star rail. Would be cool if they offically connect the storiea than. (Besides Welt and VA)
@@Jikunj They are most likely going to be Mei and Yae variants like Raiden Shogun and Yae Miko instead of the actual Mei and Yae Sakura from HI3
@@JikunjI doubt many characters are actually gonna reappear as themselves and not varients of the og since the actual returning characters have very specific circumstances. Though we do know Kiana is MIA in the apho timeline which is slowly becoming the present timeline, so as of the info we have now she actually has a solid chance of appearing as Finality.
Would be broken as shit as a unit but very interesting to think about an older Kiana debuting in StarRail before Impact 3rd.
GGZ has an anual collab with Honkai Impact. It's only one way though...
@25:07 That line never fails to give me a chuckle. You really sound like a responsible person there, Teri.
Einstein might have used "universe" because she was practically talking to laymen. Usually people tend to call the 4d structure we live in "universe" instead of the entire Imaginary Tree.
Beside, it's not like "world" is any less confusing.
Belobog the planet is technically called a world, a planet-size space ship like the Luofu is a world, and the entirety of 4d space with galaxies in it can also be called world. People who are not aware of this vast range of "world" keep looking at these games and say "aha Genshin/HI3 are just different planets".
Imagine Einstein trying to explain: Yeah Earth is a world. Yeah Mars over there is a world. Yeah the sun is a microscopic part of this world, the entire galaxy is small compare to the world really. Yes Earth is tiny compare to the Sun.
Then you have bubbleworld which can be as small as building size.
OOOH!! I thought Welt was from a parallel universe (like a different tree) but he's actually in the same tree just moving in it. So hypothetically, would it be possible for the Star Rail (train) to travel to the Genshin Impact world? Also, does this mean worlds like Jarillo-VI, the Xianxou, and Teyvat are like connected in a way? If they are, can a stelleron invade Teyvat and cause mayhem like it did in Jarilo?
Yes, in Honkai Impact, Otto already saw Teyvat, so that means it's possible. The problem would be that if the entity controlling things from above Teyvat is willing to accept more descendants
I love how Genshin players will never accept they are part of the Honkai-verse.
Tbh it is part of Hoyoverse but the main issue that many Genshin fans has is that they don't want the influence of Honkai series to be put in Genshin (like Honkai, Quanta, Imaginary, Herchers, and Aeons) basically we want Genshin to be able to stand on its own without the need to rely on an existing franchise apart from expys.
Genshin player I love it and I’ve always held true to the idea but when you bring it up the hate you get is insane and the amount of copuim people in the genshin community use to say no it’s not connected is so stupid!
@@Captainicicles77 the hate happens when a Honkai fan says that Abyss=Quanta and Omni=Imaginary when it's completely different things apart from that the majority accepted the shared universe.
It's because the connexions is less in the lore of the game itself but on the existence of the universe. Other than than that, genshin stands on its own compared to other hoyoverse games. The main lore of genshin (Abyss, khaneria, Celestia) is its own thing, they don't talk about aeons, honkais, imaginarys...etc
After the video (great btw) i have one question
If the games "universes" are like planet but veeeery far away, how can we explain the world where Kallen was saved? I doubt there's now a new solar system identical to earth but we know for sure that it exist.
And another thing, the galactic corporation IPC (i don't remember the name now) in Star Rail, if all the universes are planet why that massive interstellar corporation has never visited hi3 or ggz where there was massive wars against wills and herrschers? These are fights whose repercussions would be felt across every galaxy
The Data Bank in HSR tells us that worlds are separated by Imaginary energy. So, basically, you can think of them as sort of "different dimensions". You cannot just go from one world to another because of the Imaginary energy that keeps them separated. For that you need the power of an Aeon. Just like the Express uses Akivili's powers to travel though multiple worlds, or how some factions that have Emanators among them can also travel between worlds. In HI3 we also see that Herrschers, Stigma Awakened and MANTIS are also able to travel through Imaginary Space. But yeah, it's not that simple to travel between them. It's not just space. But I'll go into details about that in the next parts.
What Otto did is create an entire new branch (timeline) that grows from the main HI3 word (Earth). Basically, he created a new identical world, with the difference that Kallen didn't die that day.
@@HomuLabs I forgot the part of the world separated by img energy, but this means that all the planet in HSR are within the borders of one img energy "barrier" because i don't think that the IPC or who possess a normal spaceship can travel trough but they still travel across planets.
I know that he created a new identical world until Kallen's death but after that event the story is different so this universe exist somewhere in the img tree.
One more thing that came to my mind, if the img tree in HSR world is still a theory (so for now it isn't true o false for the people) how can the data bank talk about the energy? even Herta knows it.
@@abaddon2040 For your first point, When akivili did his original run through the universe, he was also laying down the "star rail", which was a means to connect the different worlds, and regular people could travel on it without needing to be an emanator or another ability to control imaginary energy to travel.
to put it in a metaphor, imagine the entire universe is solid rock. And each world within is a cave. You can get from earth to the moon with conventional travel, but trying to get to another world normally would cause you to run into the cave wall. However, when Akivili layed down the star rail during his travels, he was more digging a tunnel through the rock to the other caves(worlds). Regular people can pass through these tunnels to reach other caves without issue.
As for why the imaginary tree is still a theory. Well, in our world, Gravity itself is only a theory. We can feel it, interact with it, measure it, and even control it to some very limited degree. However we have no idea how it truly works, or if gravity is even a real force at all.
Imaginary energy is the same. Characters can interact with it, and some can even control it, but they don't know everything about it, especially in the context of the wider imaginary tree.
@@t0x1cfire75 we don't really know if the Aeon Akivili build the rail to travel trought universes because the IPC know some world or planet where the rail doesn't exist.
And no, the gravity is a fact, we don't know fully but it exist.
The IMG Tree is still a theory because no one in SR can travel trough universes to prove if it's right or wrong, if these planets were different universes the IMG Tree will be a fact, not a theory.
There can actually be technically 10 HoYo games if you count The Legend of Saha and the AE Visual Novel (Though that's pushing it since it's, well, a visual novel)
I am happy because i use my native language because it more eazy to understand Lore than English one in hi3
Thank you for all the work. I’m so excited for this series
As someone who reads at lot of LNs and manga, and scales (analyzing characters and cosmology from an mathematical, scientific, philosophical, and power scaling perspective) different series as a hobbie.
This issue of translation are nothing new for me. Unfortunately some series are less lucky than others. Don't even get me started on JRPGs like Persona.
But great work nonetheless. I am more concerned about the narrative and contextual implications of relatively normal beings able to traverse the Imaginary Tree.
This is simply the best video ever to learn about honkai
Ggz vet here.... SEA love how he said ggz is small... Ggz paved the way for hi3
An important thing to note is that even though the hoyoverse games take place in one shared “universe” that does not mean accessing each game’s world is as simple as flying/teleporting there, as we have seen multiple times in Honkai each space usually takes a considerable amount of effort to reach, like how Otto specifically needed Sirin/Kiana’s void powers to get to the IMT to progress his plan for Kallen or how Kiana was unable to access the space that the Cocoon of Finality resided in even with her Void powers. It is not as simple as moving from location A to location B that is why Welt is unable to simply go back to Hi3 and why the characters from HSR have yet to find the worlds of Genshin or Honkai, hope you guys understand that now. Also nice vid homu 👍👍👍
While I understand the concept of Universes and Worlds, I just can't grasp the idea that all the games happen in a "Single Universe with different Worlds". Why? because the idea of many variations of the same character living in the same universe but in different worlds is... weird to me. That is a concept that I have of what a Multiverse is, since "only one version of you can live in a single universe", and I believe that is one reason why many still see the Honkai universe as a Multiverse of sorts.
I imagined that Star Rail's world was one big universe (within the Imaginary Tree) consisting of many galaxies. Otherwise we would see a lot more "expys" that overlap. Also, there would be a contradiction of the Astral Express being the only method of traveling between "worlds" as Acheron is stated to travel to many "worlds", Penacony had people from all over the galaxy(s) and the Xianzhou Fleet is supposedly coming to anyone's aid when they activate the Abacus thing. At the same time, there is definitely some kind of way to speed up traveling (warp, wormhole, whatever they come up with) as all of these would take a long time with the limit of light speed. So the way I imagine it is Star Rail's universe is basically an entire branch or just one really big leaf, separated and yet connected by Imaginary energy.
Appreciate the immense effort that would have gone into this,looking forward to the next vid in the series as Ggz is still very foreign to me
Wait so they're all in the same universe?? wow. like and subscribed.
Such a well put video, you definitely deserve more subscribers! Too bad i didn't get half of it because I've never really played honkai impact and too scared to get into it because I'm already playing genshin and star rail, and I'm already putting all my attention and energy to genshin's lore, I really wish there was one big video on honkai impact lore and it's story, totally not suggesting anything
This series will be similar to the FNAF ultimate timeline...... AND I'M ALL HERE FOR IT .... U DESERVE A SUB
great point but honestly i disagree the reason why honkai is confusing isnt the wrong use of terminology .u made a good points as to why its like that and why its confusing but whoever i asked(not many) said these
1. use of complex terminology and words
2. the story feels scattered and all over the place (dont even get me started on the old world and herssrcher cores . back then it was a nightmare)
3. horrible explaination going into details about one thing when the entire concept wasnt even clear (biggest offender for me in this one is the durandal chapter and whole of finality arc)
4. overly long dialogue that is makes you forget what was even said 1min ago
honestly if it wasnt for your videos i wouldve absolutely given up on the last chapter ,even the sea of quanta chapters were made 1000 times easier to understand just because of you and that gave me hard time before your vids to even slightly understand
i been playing the game ever since launch and always struggled to understand it due to the weird explanation but it was never a problem till they introduced the universes ,worlds,finality.the tree and so on
The imaginary tree seems to be similar to the yggdrasil from norse mythology
If all of this is correct this is a very very important vid for all communities. THANK YOU
Fun fact, apparently Herta has curios that originate from Tears of Themis. I know this because another vtuber I watch has played that game and realized some of those objects (such as the stack of cards curio) are from the game.
At least, this is what they noticed, so whether that’s true or not, idk. I never played Tears of Themis.
bro its a great day. u uploading a video and me getting the artbook.
waouh just amazing, very thank you Homu-sensei.
Lowkey happy zombiegal kawaii is not forgotten. It's the first hoyo game I have played and the first game where I met Kiana
Thank you guy! I known it already, but you tell this thing, firstly, by simple language, secondly, for a lot of people. It's cool, because by this video some hoyofans don't need now to go through Honkai impact 3 times, clear every quest in Genshin and read every book in Star rail. Thanks again!
Thank you homu labs! Also thanks hoyostans for there help too you are both fantastic sources of lore and information and detail
Thanks homu labs
for a fantastic explaintion on the specific translations plus the universe world issue and more plus adding Reasons plus stateing what you mean and how you mean it i love your videos for that and more
I got to learn plenty new things thanks to this video which also means alot
And yes i love the different perspectives the characters give and narrator gives
cause as a player or one who loves lore i am plus the characters doing the best they can to theorise and learn the lore i love the mystery behind it plus the layers and potential layers added on truly feels like a great journey
Looking forward to the rest of the series!
Now we need a full detail video about Kancho, Ferry Man and the outer gods
When I first came across this confusing information in hsr or hi3, I assumed it was a translation error and operated under the contextual meaning of the word(s), and it was clear to me what was meant. It was extremely confusing to read/hear the first time in English, but I managed to get to the same point in understanding it as you are presenting here.
Thank you for the work, and I really hope they work on some of the biggest glaring errors in the English localization. Maybe one day they will discover context can tell them which word is appropriate 😂
Thanks for the video. It was really hard to talk about Honkai with others and running into the issue where they have completely different understanding of how its world works
when i first checked the story of honkai impact 3rd i saw it so confusing and still i don’t understand it completely especially the finale
Same. Also, I genuinely think they retconed stuff. I don't think it was all just translation errors...
This Video was exactly what i was looking for. Thank you for going through the trouble of collecting the information about the Chinese texts.
As someone who's new to the honkai concepts this channel has helped me a ton
Thank you I speedrun the story skip and auto dialogue in HI3 to just get the artbook . I was so confuse but I got the volume 2 book so it was worth the confusing.
0:30 yeaahh that my girl, God of Imaginary right there 😊
Great work as usual 👏
So all along in HI3, every mention of "bubble universe" was supposed to be "bubble world"?
Yeah.
And that's why I use the Japanese terminology... Not CN because I just know basic terms in chinese. Using the JP one is still more reliable then the english one, since the terms are actually closer to the CN version because of sinograms and Kanji.
Nice video! Well done first part!
So we learning that how hoyoverse lore/story writer, really love to put "red herring" of clues everywhere in the game.
Wait this video is actually insanely good lol I considered myself pretty well versed with honkai lore but I never knew about this at all
And that confirms it - welt Yang is escaping from his idol days
Hm im playing in japanese dub in hsr and in prologue chapters there are several times where himeko says "uchuu" which means "universe" but the english translation become "galaxy" for some reason but sometimes the japanese dub uses "ginga" which is the correct term for galaxy. Idk if thats a mistranslation for english or if the japanese seiyuu is given a slightly different script.
If you find something wrong, it's probably English wrong translations. JP translations are better indeed, it's helpful to you if you understand, and it seems you've already noticed that.
Seriously, every time you post a video the lore of these games becomes less inscrutable. Looking forward to the next parts of this series!
woah I can smell lots of work!
thank you homu this video refreshed my messy mind again!
also thank you for your efforts I also trying to learn all the story about "hoyoverse" so I know it's really hard
again thanks for your efforts my friend!
Thank you so much for all the videos and explanations !