Wonders, alphabetically ordered: 10:52 Alhambra 17:20 Amundsen-Scott Research Station 11:29 Angkor Wat 30:46 Apadana 23:59 Big Ben 09:03 Biosphère 25:07 Bolshoi Theatre 13:10 Broadway 15:42 Casa de Contratación 23:13 Chichen Itza 34:09 Colosseum 36:53 Colossus 12:16 Cristo Redentor 19:59 Eiffel Tower 26:35 Estádio do Maracanã 06:49 Etemenanki 27:56 Forbidden City 18:20 Golden Gate Bridge 16:23 Great Bath 05:19 Great Library 17:57 Great Lighthouse 22:31 Great Zimbabwe 30:08 Hagia Sophia 14:08 Hanging Gardens 08:17 Hermitage 28:57 Huey Teocalli 27:13 Jebel Barkal 39:04 Kilwa Kisiwani 10:17 Kōtoku-in 04:21 Machu Picchu 36:00 Mahabodhi Temple 40:34 Mausoleum at Halicarnassus 02:35 Meenakshi Temple 24:36 Mont Saint-Michel 31:13 Oracle 19:17 Országház 21:14 Oxford University 04:09 Panama Canal 38:09 Petra 26:08 Potala Palace 14:43 Pyramids 25:41 Ruhr Valley 32:34 Saint Basil's Cathedral 21:43 Statue of Liberty 09:43 Statue of Zeus 06:16 Stonehenge 03:40 Sydney Opera House 31:55 Taj Mahal 35:18 Temple of Artemis 29:30 Terracotta Army 33:26 Torre de Belém 07:48 University of Sankore 13:41 Venetian Arsenal
Colosseum is absolutely worth the effort to build because the entertainment complex next to a wonder creates a brilliant knuckle for placing high adjacency theatre squares.
For sure! Maybe I focused a bit too much on the negatives, just to justify even considering A tier. It's a great wonder that I should go for more often.
It is very good, but it's very late. Worth building every time, maybe even worth rushing the civic sometimes. But as far as impact on your game, many others will have a greater impact just because the come earlier. I think you could make an argument for A tier, but only barely. B seems fair to me.
The good thing about colosseum is that due to its complex placement rules, the AI doesn’t go for it that quickly. If I do bother to build it, I use Heracles to build the entertainment complex and save up $600 to rush buy the arena…
Very fair - in Heroes & Legends Mode, I think Colosseum sits more comfortably in S tier. I would also say that Great Library and Angkor Wat become more buildable with Heraklês. For this tier list, I didn't really decide whether to completely disregard or accept game modes, since the games I reference had wildly different settings. The only exception is Great Bath, which is way stronger in Apocalypse Mode.
Solid list, and good visuals/presentation! I have a few things I would like to add: - the extra movement Great Lighthouse grants can be a boon when it comes to Plundering and Coastal Raiding, as you have more actions to get into position or to escape. I still wouldn't go for it, but civs like classic Norway, classic Victoria's England (who get extra movement from the RND) and Ottomans (Barbary Corsairs) can get some use of it. - Eiffel Tower being unlocked by Steel also has the somewhat annoying effect that from the moment you unlock it, you can no longer build new Ancient-Renaissance walls. While it's not a huge loss of Tourism, Renaissance Walls can give you quite a bit of benefit (like Housing and Diplo Favor from Monarchy and Science from Military Research)
Thanks! - re. Lighthouse: that's true, and I think I could highlight that specifically with the already bonkers Barbary Corsair, but naval units already have good movement generally and I think Combat Strength would have been the better bonus. - re. Eiffel: true, and I only didn't mention it because of time - this is one of the reasons I don't like beelining Steel.
All wonders have their place and their time to shine. But right now, it's Zond's time to shine! Excellent tier list, friend! To add some discussion - I wonder sometimes if colosseum really is worth it, as it costs a district slot, the resources to build an entertainment complex AND arena before you even start building the wonder. Not to mention perhaps placing cities where you may not want it to make it worthwhile.
Very informative with reasonings behind placement choices plus back up, said this before but would be a fun mod project implementing some of these suggested changes to the lower tiered wonders maybe making them more fun and impactful to use
Thanks, Silverfox! Yes, I think a "wonder fix" mod could be neat. We'll talk about it more in tomorrow's stream, and if you can't make it, I'll DM you the ideas we come up with. :)
About Sydney Opera and other music-themed wonders. Oftentimes when I get a Great Musician I don't have the slots for his works. The majority of those are late in the game, and universal slots are nearly always occupied already. This alone elevates Sydney to B tier near Broadway for me.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming yeah I still suck at planning this stuff out. Btw It would be a nice specific guide on Great Works, Artifacts and Relics (maybe you have one, I'm still new to your channel). Getting them, getting slots for them, managing theme slots, buying/stealing works from other civs, specific policies etc.
@leshamas_ don't have that yet but you could check out some of the culture victories I've done, like the Tomyris and Gorgô playlists, and I do plan on making a video about that, but realistically that won't happen this year.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming thanks for the tip, definitely gonna check them out, loved the new Cleo one. And I'll be waiting on this video for sure! I love such lenghty playthroughs youtubers do, usually I get a lot of insights there as this stuff is usually explained on the go and you see the effects. The problem with them is that binging and even skimming takes a lot of time and you kinda can't know for sure what exactly you will find. That's where guides come in. These two approaches really complement each other.
I don’t disagree with your thoughts on Biosphere, being a wonder that in theory you sort of plan your game around. I have so many memories though of panic rushing biosphere and tearing down my entire empire to replace with wind and solar to eleventh hour clutch culture win in a few games where a science focused ai was too far in the snowball. It will always hold a place in my heart as the “oh shit; can I save this deity game?” Red Button lol
Great tier list also liked your reasons for building them and the win condition element with how many times you built them was very interesting, might have put Forbidden city in S I try to get it in every game. That extra wild card slot is to useful
Nicely done. I think you might undervalue Alhambra. It's an easy A tier for me. I find all of the card slots to be of roughly equal value and definitely want it in all SV games where I never have enough red slots especially once in Democracy. For the fastest science wins, in tier 2 govt, you often want to be running retainers (red amenity card) and some combination of: unit production, craftsman, logistics, raid, unit upgrade cards; and then once in Tier3 govt, you want to run some combination of: logistics, total war, aluminum card, integrated space cell, force modernization. Because I end up using wild slots for red cards, I find it is often equal in value to Forbidden City since they have the same affect, but Alhambra comes with +2 amenities. Also in CV always having a slot for logistics is really good for all your builders and in domination, you can never have too many red slots.
Ah right, I think it stems from me valuing red cards less and not liking Encampments. To me, it's Big Ben that's basically as good as Forbidden City. I usually use Wildcard Slots for yellow and green cards, and I often just don't build Encampments. I did (and do) consider swapping it into C tier, but I decided against it because I only find it useful in Science Victories. It might just be a wonder I sleep on too often, like Ruhr and Eiffel.
The way you pronounce each wonder is quite impressive. I am Brazilian (Portuguese), but I am also Italian and familiar with Spanish. I can't do that proper pronunciation at all.... LOL
Da heck. Great library is solid B tier. Its good in science and culture games. If you rush is you WILL get it. In science games, it makes for A LOT of scinece boosts, esp late game ones that are unboostable. In culture, it basically means you dont have to worry about science ever again
@@Zondagskind.Gaming what are you talking about? Its a culture wonder that is easy to boost into. Its also not too much of a deviation from feudalism. Just two civics after finishing political philosophy. The way the AI is OBSESSED with building campuses, you will only ever get ONE great scientist per era. This wonder with 2-3 boosts basically provides the equivalent of another great scientist per era, effectively doubling them. And....AGAIN many late game great scientists are basically worthless. An eureka for a tech that theres literally no way to boost is way better
Respect the amount of work that went into compiling this data and then creating the video. Very well done. While my list differs from yours I really enjoyed it!
For me Venetian Arsenal is a major win condition for naval domination. It's unlocked with mass production which is right next to cartography (and leads to industrialization anyways), and usually I focus on infrastructure instead of building a bunch of navy early, so Venetian Arsenal can let me catch up with a massive navy with little investment beforehand. I've won many naval domination games with a mid to late game frigate or ironclad rush powered by Venetian Arsenal. It's definitely and A tier wonder for me. Also, I heavily disagree with Great Zimbabwe ranking. The requirement of a bank and especially the cattle requirement (which I usually chop early) are just not worth it. I'd rate it closer to a D tier. I would rate Ruhr Valley a lot lower because typically in cities with high enough production to build Ruhr there's no place to build it. I'd give it a B or even a C. I think Chichen Itza is one of the worst wonders because it's even more situational than Etemananki (if you spawn away from the equator its completely useless and chopping rainforest is much better than working it) and provides worse yields. Also, I don't focus on culture often so I don't value it as much as science. I'd rate it in D or F tier, and move Etemenanki into B tier. Biosphere I feel like is an amazing win condition and most of the few culture games I play are won with Biosphere. Additionally, the extra power from renewable resources is extremely good for terrestrial laser stations in a science game. I would definitely rate it in A tier. Apadana I'd rate B tier because I often use the adjacent to capital space for districts like Forbidden City so I don't really have space for Apadana. Hanging Gardens I would move up a tier, I almost always build it when I can and the extra growth it brings, especially stacked with fertility rites pantheon, Magnus governor, domestic trade routes, etc can lead to some very fast and very high population cities. I really don't get why anti-cavalry gets so much hate. In my experience (especially pike and shot) they are just as viable as melee units, can be used in any game because they don't have strategics costs (also meaning that you can sell those strategics for more gold), and with Statue of Zeus they can be rushed extremely quickly. Their main weakness is that their promotions aren't very good, but I would definitely still put Statue of Zeus in B or A tier. As someone who enjoys going tall and staying on one continent (I feel like settling out, especially overseas, is late enough into the game that it's more worth focusing on your main continent) I would put Torre de Belem and Casa de Contratacion much lower because for me they're only good if I spawn near a land continent split. I'm not going to comment on any culture victory wonders because I don't play culture victories very much. Overall, very well produced video (though like another guy said I would have appreciated placement requirements being listed on screen), and made some good points that I didn't consider with some of the other wonders. Sorry for posting this wall of text a full year after release lmao
Very nice video. One suggestion I have is you need to use a human finger or something to point at stuff. I noticed you tried using your Sun in Splendour profile pic to gesture to various things on the screen, but its a very confusing icon to be pointing at things with. Also think it would be pretty funny having a big ol finger sticking out of the sun.
I build and used meenakshi temple for its intended purpose once(!) In 2000 hours of playtime. BUT it made me steamroll to a religious victory before the Renaissance. But it is way to convoluted compared to just spam apostles with Yerevan suz bonus or golden age perks...
Golden Gate is shitty tier because you can't cross cliff walls with it. The units just go around. Utterly annoying. I mean, the real Golden Gate Bridge is between 2 cliff walls. Come on! Fix that Firaxis, or 2K, or Sid Meyer's.. anyone pls
I know, I always sigh when the troops don't make it over. But that's another reason it's too late: by that time, your units can easily just cross those bodies of water.
I could have, especially since I did show footage of a Phoenician Casa game. If I ever make a video in which synergies are the main focus, this is an obvious one to address. Thanks!
Eh, I just did a naval dom game (video going live early February) and I had already got my entire navy recruited by the time I got Venetian Arsenal. It just comes too late.
Nice video, I like your assessment of Bolshoi Theatre. I want to point out one other productive use I get out of it - since it's unlocked on the first set of Industrial Era civics, this is usually the wonder I'm using to boost Flight. And as you discussed on Eiffel Tower, Flight is a beeline for Culture games. I'm less balanced than you with victory condition however, as about half of my victories are Cultural victories.
Thank you! That's a good point, I rarely worry about the Flight eureka, but it is an extra plus for Bolshoi. I would normally also do more Culture Victories, but I made an effort in that challenge series to spread it out. And yeah, Colossus fans unite!
I play religious victory wonder rushz stoneheng is right away, to get the Prophet asap, i often can win in 150 to 200 i even once few times in just 100 turns using wonders+4 faith each of them.
Some opinions I have that are different. Biosphere: Honestly, I disagree that it's something that needs to be planned out from the beginning. Biosphere is an incredible pivot strategy, where you were going for a science victory, but you then realize that an AI is beating you to it (or you just want a faster victory type), and then you realize that the AI has very low culture, pivoting to a science-culture victory works great! Orszaghaz: This isn't a diplo victory wonder, it's a gold generating economy wonder! Sell all that diplo favor, and usually it'll be more impactful than winning a congress (usually....) Oracle: Very over rated IMO, simply because it costs too much in the early game compared to what it gives, and it makes no sense to build for the most powerful meta strategy, which is getting a religion. Every victory type and most civilizations want to get a religion, since monumentality and holy sites with a religion like feed the world or coral music is just completely overpowered. This means that your capital probably has a holy site first and a government plaza second, meaning the oracle kinda does nothing for you if you build it in your capital. Sure, off meta civs like Grease, Gaul, or Maya would love to have it, but for most civs, it doesn't help their most powerful strategies, and going for it kinda nerfs you. I honestly thought I'd have more disagreements, nice list!
Thanks! I don't pivot as much as I used to, since I go into these challenge test games with one condition in mind, so I may undervalue Biosphère in that sense. For Oracle, I think that there's actually a great synergy with faith-heavy games, because I'll often use that faith to get some Great People and Oracle lowers the cost for that. I do think the tech path makes it a risky build, and I especially struggle with it in Shuffle Mode.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming Yeah, I might be undervaluing the discount on GP purchasing, especially for game changing people like Imhotep (3 practically free wonders is sooo good). It still seems situational to me, doubly so given the high risk of missing it since the AI loves it (I know you said you didn't consider that too heavily, but I think it's really important). Maybe I'll give it another chance though, since I've improved a lot since I gave up on it as a reliable strategy.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming 😂 Well, you still got it pretty close. I remember learning German down here and the teacher asked if we all knew how to say our vowels in Te Reo Māori. When we all said yes she said “Then you know how to say them in German.” And moved onto the next thing.
Hi, welcome to the Civ community! There are a couple reasons, and a big one is that (competitive) multiplayer uses gameplay mods that change the effects of the wonders. So for them, the video isn't even accurate. It already gets better for non-modded multiplayer, and generally I'd say wonders that come very early and very late are better against humans than against AI.
True, but one civ's synergy with a wonder doesn't raise its rating by a tier. I realise that I did sometimes mention those synergies but they don't factor into a tier list too much.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming So I actually misunderstood why certain civs were highlighted bc I jumped into the video after the introduction. I thought you were highlighting which civs said wonder works well for. But as I continued to watch I see it was just showing which games you built it in.
@Ottocide Ah, that makes sense, I had Alhambra as America and Statue of Zeus as the Zulu. Synergies are an interesting topic for a different video for sure. 😁
@@Zondagskind.Gaming yeah I realized I was way off pretty much immediately 😅, but I always leave my comments for the 💫engagement💫 that TH-cam so desires! I'd definitely watch :)
Yes, I did realise that after I had included the technology requirement, but by then I didn't want to reshuffle all the graphics anymore. If I ever make a revision, I think I write the requirements in the right half.
I never find colosseum or jebel useful because i super optimize my city spacing in most games to not have any overlap so i can run all the tiles per city. Im lucky if i get 3 or 4 cities hit by their ranges
I think the benefits of mutually boosting districts, getting cities down faster, and needing less room, outweigh the benefit of eventually working all the tiles in a city.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming i have been somewhat learning the upsides. My current game im rome and just took over aztecs so im building baths in their cities and i realized i have 2 baths and a dam and two horse tiles all circled up and they give me a +14 industrial zone. I still like spacing early and then fill later. My capitol is almost always fully spread from other cities since it is basically guaranteed to be the one i fully develop first. There totally are dead tiles, but it feels like each city is unique this way rather than a dense meas.
Nah. Even if I tried, it's hard. I only got a diplo win because I stuck to making alliances, giving favors for gold, and suzerainship on all cities etc. If you focus on a certain win you are trying to achieve, AI will keep cockblocking you in WC. I tried.
LOL .. I wonder what Ursa Ryan thinks of Oxford in A tier... I probably only got that wonder like 3 times in 2K hours of Civ 6. And I play science a lot.
I think that's mostly because the AI have a particular preference towards it, which I try to disregard. I do think it's a low A tier, partially because it has to go on a flat grassland or plains tile, which has tripped me up way too often. But I'm curious as well what Ursa would say!
Thanks! Full disclosure, I just wanted to look up the stress so I wouldn't say [ma-ra-CA-na] like Sean Bean, but then after practicing it I kind of went all in on accident.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming I must have forgotten Jebel Berkel gives faith to cities within 6 tiles, I thought it only gave iron so I always skipped it. I remember Biosphere and statue of liberty being different but I see those were changed in Gathering storm, although that is strange because I thought I estarted playing after gathering swarm. Looking again at a few others I realized I was just wrong though, like estadio I didn't realize gave that much culture to every city or for some reason I thought Machu PIcchu gave 8 gold I realize I play a lot like you though, always going for as many wonders as I can lol
28:28 yes i left a comment like a week before watching the video, but i think u didnt mention an important thing - placement requirements. They're VERY simple and easy to plan around/ But if you dont plan around them coz, idk, u forgor, then they're kinda sad, because tiles around the city itself are, at least in my games, quite often serve some purpose already and apadana i dont like, coz the bonus is city specific, and that is just.. idk, i dont like city-specific bonuses that much
I mentioned placement requirements a couple times when relevant. Notably Hermitage drops into skippable territory because of that, and Alhambra gets pushed way down.
@@benismann I felt like the technology requirement was the bigger factor in its ranking. Forbidden City goes next to any city centre, that's not too difficult.
Machu picchu, why that thing aaa, playing with ai the ai always builds first in every civ the ai choose even they have the worst production income they still get first before me 😂
That's because I don't disregard technology and placement requirements, which might make a wonder more or less competitive, especially early doors. What I try to disregard is that AIs will go out of their way to build the Pyramids but they tend to ignore Apadana, for no other reason than their programming. Which wonders do you think are misplaced?
@@Zondagskind.Gaming great library, stonehenge and etemenanki immediately jumped out near the start(when i typed the reply) as you'd just talked about disregarding AI shortly before that, then there's pyramids and various other ones when you flatly reference AI going for them. Machu picchu being on a mountain and not taking up land space is a positive not a negative. Alhambra not being built because you don't build encampments outside of pure domination is rather wierd.
@@axxey The short version of my answer is I still take into account that the AI exists and will build wonders, but picks them more randomly. So how competitive a wonder is, is still a factor. Otherwise it's only about effect and yes, then the ranking would be different. But the ranking would also have been different if I hadn't tried to disregard AI preferences. Great Bath, Machu, Pyramids, Potala Palace would be lower, while Mont St. Michel, Országház, and Amundsen-Scott would benefit. Great Library: like I said, to be *comfortable* building it, you'd need to be ahead in both science and culture, which - regardless of whether the AI actually builds the Great Library - the early Classical Era is the worst time for. Basically, have it unlock anywhere else and it instantly improves a tier. Stonehenge: would still be in E tier if the AI never built it, since you still can't get it reliably before an AI just naturally gets their Prophet. Getting a Holy Site and projecting for your religion is just better. Etemenanki: very specific in that, by beelining it, you have to help your neighbour also unlock it. Also, sure, pair it with Reeds and Marshes and it's fantastic, but quite a lot of civs and maps don't synergise with that. Pyramids: would be way lower if I'd taken AI preference into account, I even said it'd be S tier if it went on non-desert, even though you would then never be able to build it. Machu: you can't use Great Engineers on it, ergo there's no "picking it up later", so it's the hardest commitment bar none, and for that the effect just isn't as good in practice as it sounds. BTW this one would be in E tier if I took AI preferences into account. Alhambra: in Science Victories, I do build Encampments at some point, but not as a priority, and I don't usually build them in Cultural and Religious Victories. Maybe that's weird, but then my tier list is about how useful I find a wonder, and a wonder that has to go next to a district I don't often build is going to suffer for it. Basically Alhambra is often good in games in which I can't build it, and in the games I could build it I often don't really need it. So hopefully that clears up why my ranks are the way they are. I'm happy to expand on them if you have more questions.
Silly tier list, and not something I would put much faith in when you play deity on a high level. Just one example (and there are many): Wonders like Biosphere are trash tier, because they arrive so late that you are just a few turns away from winning, and offers no real bonus towards winning anyway. And who keeps marsh/jungle around in large quantities all game? Not gonna bother commenting on the rest, but this is one example of the tier list becoming silly when we let trash like Biosphere sit on the upper half of the list.
As I explained, it sits that high because you can build your entire game around it. If we're talking about optimal plays, there's very few wonders that you should even consider building at all. What wonder have I put lower than Biosphère, that you think is better than it?
@@Zondagskind.Gaming My question is, why would you build your entire game around it to begin with (unless we are making a tier rating particularly for Brazil that is playing a meme strategy)? In general, sure you would get extra power or some appeal from it, but neither of these bonuses matter at this point, because the wonder unlocks so late, and offers no real bonus to winning. The bonus on this wonder (especially relative to when you can get it) is so bad that it's essentially like having 0 bonuses on it. Alhambra is the only one I think should be higher (most of the ones in D and below are fine and belong at the bottom), because it arrives relatively early and it's a card which is always useful. I'm not saying its a great wonder, but its definitely a lot better than Biosphere. Biosphere I built once (just for having built it at all), but Alhambra is something I will consider often enough (assuming its still available and I have an encampment up, which may or may not apply). Etemenanki is something I also disagree with, but you commented that it's hit or miss, which is ok with that caveat (it is hit or miss after all). But When it gets a C and junk like Biosphere gets knocked up to C as well (or Jebel Barkal gets B, making it "better" than Etemenanki), the relative strength ceases to make meaning. Etemenanki is easily one of the strongest wonders in the game, IF you can get it with the right pantheon. Thats a big if, but this is a wonder I will not hesitate to shoot for assuming I have a marsh heavy map. That is not something I can say often for Jebel Barkal, and NEVER something I will ever say for a wonder like Biosphere. Getting Etemenanki in the right circumstance is essentially like being able to say "lol, I just made the game go from deity to prince difficulty". In the ancient era, where it actually matters. It's not a wonder I go for often, but when I go for it I know that its gonna break the game for me.
@@samuelhakansson6680 The Biosphère Tourism isn't a Brazil-only strategy, it was originally done with Phoenicia, which is why it was called the "Didosphere". It centres around the tourism from power improvements (and harbour buildings with Cardiff). Also, I did use it in a couple science games, it's basically an insurance policy that you can do laser projects even without Aluminium. Okay, I can see a swap between Biosphère and Alhambra. But if you say everything at D-tier "should be at the bottom", then that's a very big bottom tier. Just like I have to tell people that not everything can be A-tier, not everything can be F-tier either. Jebel Barkal is, in my experience, just more consistent than Etemenanki, by being useful on more map types, and the tech path not specifically requiring you to help your neighbour unlock it.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming No, my point was that everything at D tier and belongs there at the bottom (D is the bottom half of the list after all), so its fine for the most part. My bad, I didnt understand that you specifically wanted to play around with the power/tourist mechanic. I generally dont like to play that, as my culture games are usually over shortly after I get natural parks unlocked (storing a faith bank and painting the map with natural parks through Theocracy for the discount). I guess if you want to delay the game )as well as focus on the tech tree rather than the civics tree) to reach late game techs (solar farms etc.) and winning off of it for tourist purposes its ok, and it does allow you go use sea tiles for tourism. But I generally think thats a somewhat meme strat, and a power ranking in a tier list should reflect that.
@@samuelhakansson6680 Having spoken to a couple of speedrunners, I'm convinced most wonders are a meme-strat, so I try to give the late-game wonders a little leeway as long as they're powerful enough to at least close the game pretty much immediately, which Biosphère does, Golden Gate might, but Sydney Opera House really doesn't. It's hard to make a sound comparison of wonders from different eras, I think if we made lists per era, we'd agree much more.
Loved this video, information presented very concisely, wish you did more edited/analysis video, you are really talented in it and Im not much for unedited let's plays
Thanks! I'll keep the feedback in mind for the last civ I haven't played yet (Yongle's China). So far word seems to be people prefer a shorter edit over turn-by-turn let's plays.
Wonders, alphabetically ordered:
10:52 Alhambra
17:20 Amundsen-Scott Research Station
11:29 Angkor Wat
30:46 Apadana
23:59 Big Ben
09:03 Biosphère
25:07 Bolshoi Theatre
13:10 Broadway
15:42 Casa de Contratación
23:13 Chichen Itza
34:09 Colosseum
36:53 Colossus
12:16 Cristo Redentor
19:59 Eiffel Tower
26:35 Estádio do Maracanã
06:49 Etemenanki
27:56 Forbidden City
18:20 Golden Gate Bridge
16:23 Great Bath
05:19 Great Library
17:57 Great Lighthouse
22:31 Great Zimbabwe
30:08 Hagia Sophia
14:08 Hanging Gardens
08:17 Hermitage
28:57 Huey Teocalli
27:13 Jebel Barkal
39:04 Kilwa Kisiwani
10:17 Kōtoku-in
04:21 Machu Picchu
36:00 Mahabodhi Temple
40:34 Mausoleum at Halicarnassus
02:35 Meenakshi Temple
24:36 Mont Saint-Michel
31:13 Oracle
19:17 Országház
21:14 Oxford University
04:09 Panama Canal
38:09 Petra
26:08 Potala Palace
14:43 Pyramids
25:41 Ruhr Valley
32:34 Saint Basil's Cathedral
21:43 Statue of Liberty
09:43 Statue of Zeus
06:16 Stonehenge
03:40 Sydney Opera House
31:55 Taj Mahal
35:18 Temple of Artemis
29:30 Terracotta Army
33:26 Torre de Belém
07:48 University of Sankore
13:41 Venetian Arsenal
Colosseum is absolutely worth the effort to build because the entertainment complex next to a wonder creates a brilliant knuckle for placing high adjacency theatre squares.
For sure! Maybe I focused a bit too much on the negatives, just to justify even considering A tier. It's a great wonder that I should go for more often.
I feel Estadio deserves higher than B tier. AI rarely picks it up and getting those amenities can give you 20% bonus to all yields across your empire.
It is very good, but it's very late. Worth building every time, maybe even worth rushing the civic sometimes. But as far as impact on your game, many others will have a greater impact just because the come earlier. I think you could make an argument for A tier, but only barely. B seems fair to me.
The good thing about colosseum is that due to its complex placement rules, the AI doesn’t go for it that quickly. If I do bother to build it, I use Heracles to build the entertainment complex and save up $600 to rush buy the arena…
Very fair - in Heroes & Legends Mode, I think Colosseum sits more comfortably in S tier. I would also say that Great Library and Angkor Wat become more buildable with Heraklês. For this tier list, I didn't really decide whether to completely disregard or accept game modes, since the games I reference had wildly different settings. The only exception is Great Bath, which is way stronger in Apocalypse Mode.
Solid list, and good visuals/presentation! I have a few things I would like to add:
- the extra movement Great Lighthouse grants can be a boon when it comes to Plundering and Coastal Raiding, as you have more actions to get into position or to escape. I still wouldn't go for it, but civs like classic Norway, classic Victoria's England (who get extra movement from the RND) and Ottomans (Barbary Corsairs) can get some use of it.
- Eiffel Tower being unlocked by Steel also has the somewhat annoying effect that from the moment you unlock it, you can no longer build new Ancient-Renaissance walls. While it's not a huge loss of Tourism, Renaissance Walls can give you quite a bit of benefit (like Housing and Diplo Favor from Monarchy and Science from Military Research)
Thanks!
- re. Lighthouse: that's true, and I think I could highlight that specifically with the already bonkers Barbary Corsair, but naval units already have good movement generally and I think Combat Strength would have been the better bonus.
- re. Eiffel: true, and I only didn't mention it because of time - this is one of the reasons I don't like beelining Steel.
Steel is usually the second to last thing I go for in its era
All wonders have their place and their time to shine. But right now, it's Zond's time to shine! Excellent tier list, friend! To add some discussion - I wonder sometimes if colosseum really is worth it, as it costs a district slot, the resources to build an entertainment complex AND arena before you even start building the wonder. Not to mention perhaps placing cities where you may not want it to make it worthwhile.
Cool perspectives! A lot of the ranking run quite contrary to a lot of the other tier lists so it was very interesting to hear the rationale
Very informative with reasonings behind placement choices plus back up, said this before but would be a fun mod project implementing some of these suggested changes to the lower tiered wonders maybe making them more fun and impactful to use
Thanks, Silverfox! Yes, I think a "wonder fix" mod could be neat. We'll talk about it more in tomorrow's stream, and if you can't make it, I'll DM you the ideas we come up with. :)
This channel is really underrated.
@Annoyingeditzwaddlesarc2012 thanks!
Very very good video. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
About Sydney Opera and other music-themed wonders. Oftentimes when I get a Great Musician I don't have the slots for his works. The majority of those are late in the game, and universal slots are nearly always occupied already. This alone elevates Sydney to B tier near Broadway for me.
In my experience Boradcast Centres are coming inline by then, but maybe it works better if you skew your culture-science balance more.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming yeah I still suck at planning this stuff out.
Btw It would be a nice specific guide on Great Works, Artifacts and Relics (maybe you have one, I'm still new to your channel). Getting them, getting slots for them, managing theme slots, buying/stealing works from other civs, specific policies etc.
@leshamas_ don't have that yet but you could check out some of the culture victories I've done, like the Tomyris and Gorgô playlists, and I do plan on making a video about that, but realistically that won't happen this year.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming thanks for the tip, definitely gonna check them out, loved the new Cleo one. And I'll be waiting on this video for sure!
I love such lenghty playthroughs youtubers do, usually I get a lot of insights there as this stuff is usually explained on the go and you see the effects. The problem with them is that binging and even skimming takes a lot of time and you kinda can't know for sure what exactly you will find. That's where guides come in. These two approaches really complement each other.
I don’t disagree with your thoughts on Biosphere, being a wonder that in theory you sort of plan your game around. I have so many memories though of panic rushing biosphere and tearing down my entire empire to replace with wind and solar to eleventh hour clutch culture win in a few games where a science focused ai was too far in the snowball. It will always hold a place in my heart as the “oh shit; can I save this deity game?” Red Button lol
Really nicely done, great work. Found myself nodding along. I love Forbidden City so much, but it always seems to be a pain to get there and boost
Thank you so much!
I appreciate your rules/criteria and the time that went into this video. Great work!
Thank you!
Great tier list also liked your reasons for building them and the win condition element with how many times you built them was very interesting, might have put Forbidden city in S I try to get it in every game. That extra wild card slot is to useful
Thanks for the feedback! Forbidden is basically the highest A tier for me, on the cusp of S.
Nice job man i can see that you really worked hard on this video
Thanks a million!
finally someone who gives meenakshi temple what it deserves
Bish bash bosh, Meenakshi is trosh.
Thats one way to pronounce bio-sphere
That's how people name it in the city that its built
Nicely done.
I think you might undervalue Alhambra. It's an easy A tier for me. I find all of the card slots to be of roughly equal value and definitely want it in all SV games where I never have enough red slots especially once in Democracy. For the fastest science wins, in tier 2 govt, you often want to be running retainers (red amenity card) and some combination of: unit production, craftsman, logistics, raid, unit upgrade cards; and then once in Tier3 govt, you want to run some combination of: logistics, total war, aluminum card, integrated space cell, force modernization. Because I end up using wild slots for red cards, I find it is often equal in value to Forbidden City since they have the same affect, but Alhambra comes with +2 amenities.
Also in CV always having a slot for logistics is really good for all your builders and in domination, you can never have too many red slots.
Ah right, I think it stems from me valuing red cards less and not liking Encampments. To me, it's Big Ben that's basically as good as Forbidden City. I usually use Wildcard Slots for yellow and green cards, and I often just don't build Encampments. I did (and do) consider swapping it into C tier, but I decided against it because I only find it useful in Science Victories. It might just be a wonder I sleep on too often, like Ruhr and Eiffel.
The way you pronounce each wonder is quite impressive. I am Brazilian (Portuguese), but I am also Italian and familiar with Spanish. I can't do that proper pronunciation at all.... LOL
Thanks!
Da heck. Great library is solid B tier. Its good in science and culture games. If you rush is you WILL get it. In science games, it makes for A LOT of scinece boosts, esp late game ones that are unboostable. In culture, it basically means you dont have to worry about science ever again
@luisgutierrez8047 it's just very hard to get because of the tech path, and there's other ways to get great Scientists.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming what are you talking about? Its a culture wonder that is easy to boost into. Its also not too much of a deviation from feudalism. Just two civics after finishing political philosophy.
The way the AI is OBSESSED with building campuses, you will only ever get ONE great scientist per era. This wonder with 2-3 boosts basically provides the equivalent of another great scientist per era, effectively doubling them. And....AGAIN many late game great scientists are basically worthless. An eureka for a tech that theres literally no way to boost is way better
Respect the amount of work that went into compiling this data and then creating the video. Very well done. While my list differs from yours I really enjoyed it!
Thank you so much! Collecting the data was made easier by looking at the timeline of historic moments, but yes, it took a bit of time.
For me Venetian Arsenal is a major win condition for naval domination. It's unlocked with mass production which is right next to cartography (and leads to industrialization anyways), and usually I focus on infrastructure instead of building a bunch of navy early, so Venetian Arsenal can let me catch up with a massive navy with little investment beforehand. I've won many naval domination games with a mid to late game frigate or ironclad rush powered by Venetian Arsenal. It's definitely and A tier wonder for me.
Also, I heavily disagree with Great Zimbabwe ranking. The requirement of a bank and especially the cattle requirement (which I usually chop early) are just not worth it. I'd rate it closer to a D tier.
I would rate Ruhr Valley a lot lower because typically in cities with high enough production to build Ruhr there's no place to build it. I'd give it a B or even a C.
I think Chichen Itza is one of the worst wonders because it's even more situational than Etemananki (if you spawn away from the equator its completely useless and chopping rainforest is much better than working it) and provides worse yields. Also, I don't focus on culture often so I don't value it as much as science. I'd rate it in D or F tier, and move Etemenanki into B tier.
Biosphere I feel like is an amazing win condition and most of the few culture games I play are won with Biosphere. Additionally, the extra power from renewable resources is extremely good for terrestrial laser stations in a science game. I would definitely rate it in A tier.
Apadana I'd rate B tier because I often use the adjacent to capital space for districts like Forbidden City so I don't really have space for Apadana.
Hanging Gardens I would move up a tier, I almost always build it when I can and the extra growth it brings, especially stacked with fertility rites pantheon, Magnus governor, domestic trade routes, etc can lead to some very fast and very high population cities.
I really don't get why anti-cavalry gets so much hate. In my experience (especially pike and shot) they are just as viable as melee units, can be used in any game because they don't have strategics costs (also meaning that you can sell those strategics for more gold), and with Statue of Zeus they can be rushed extremely quickly. Their main weakness is that their promotions aren't very good, but I would definitely still put Statue of Zeus in B or A tier.
As someone who enjoys going tall and staying on one continent (I feel like settling out, especially overseas, is late enough into the game that it's more worth focusing on your main continent) I would put Torre de Belem and Casa de Contratacion much lower because for me they're only good if I spawn near a land continent split.
I'm not going to comment on any culture victory wonders because I don't play culture victories very much.
Overall, very well produced video (though like another guy said I would have appreciated placement requirements being listed on screen), and made some good points that I didn't consider with some of the other wonders. Sorry for posting this wall of text a full year after release lmao
Note: I usually play with barbarian clans only, or no game modes at all.
"A vast tomb"
when you hear that, you know your winning chances increased by at least 50%
Hell yeah, one of my favourite voice clips.
“A vast tomb lies over me in Halicarnassus, of such dimensions, of such exquisite beauty as no other shade can boast.”
Very nice video. One suggestion I have is you need to use a human finger or something to point at stuff. I noticed you tried using your Sun in Splendour profile pic to gesture to various things on the screen, but its a very confusing icon to be pointing at things with. Also think it would be pretty funny having a big ol finger sticking out of the sun.
I build and used meenakshi temple for its intended purpose once(!) In 2000 hours of playtime. BUT it made me steamroll to a religious victory before the Renaissance. But it is way to convoluted compared to just spam apostles with Yerevan suz bonus or golden age perks...
True, I guess Religious Victories are a little too straightforward.
I haven’t played civ in months. However, I see tier list, I watch ✨
I see comment, I click like button. 😁
Also ToA enjoyers unite 🐐
Golden Gate is shitty tier because you can't cross cliff walls with it. The units just go around. Utterly annoying. I mean, the real Golden Gate Bridge is between 2 cliff walls. Come on! Fix that Firaxis, or 2K, or Sid Meyer's.. anyone pls
True, that annoys me as well, although I don't build Golden Gate for the movement.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming It is supposed to be a bridge though LOL
I know, I always sigh when the troops don't make it over. But that's another reason it's too late: by that time, your units can easily just cross those bodies of water.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming Civ Logics: Let's build a fake bridge for culture and tourism.
Great list. I reckon you should've mentioned Dido's amazing synergy with Casa de Contratacion with her ability to change her capital as a shout-out.
I could have, especially since I did show footage of a Phoenician Casa game. If I ever make a video in which synergies are the main focus, this is an obvious one to address. Thanks!
i actually never thought of this, i should try this once
Venetian Arsenal easily A tier. Monster of a wonder for naval pushes.
Eh, I just did a naval dom game (video going live early February) and I had already got my entire navy recruited by the time I got Venetian Arsenal. It just comes too late.
Nice video, I like your assessment of Bolshoi Theatre. I want to point out one other productive use I get out of it - since it's unlocked on the first set of Industrial Era civics, this is usually the wonder I'm using to boost Flight. And as you discussed on Eiffel Tower, Flight is a beeline for Culture games. I'm less balanced than you with victory condition however, as about half of my victories are Cultural victories.
Also - totally with you on loving the Colossus
Thank you! That's a good point, I rarely worry about the Flight eureka, but it is an extra plus for Bolshoi. I would normally also do more Culture Victories, but I made an effort in that challenge series to spread it out. And yeah, Colossus fans unite!
I play religious victory wonder rushz stoneheng is right away, to get the Prophet asap, i often can win in 150 to 200 i even once few times in just 100 turns using wonders+4 faith each of them.
What a nicely made tier list video
Thanks!
I had a game where I was only able to win berthed Panama canal liberated my navy from my frozen sea that I didn't realize was locked kn
Then, for you, it's a higher-tier wonder. In my thousands of hours of civ, it's only been moderately useful once to me.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming woah, reading my comment 1 year after you mad ethe video, very cool
@@tadposting9505 I mean, if I'm online and I see a comment coming in, I respond. 😎
You should do a video on the natural wonders, there isn’t an up to date video on them yet
I like that idea! How about we make that the reward for getting to 300 YT subs? 😁
Some opinions I have that are different.
Biosphere: Honestly, I disagree that it's something that needs to be planned out from the beginning. Biosphere is an incredible pivot strategy, where you were going for a science victory, but you then realize that an AI is beating you to it (or you just want a faster victory type), and then you realize that the AI has very low culture, pivoting to a science-culture victory works great!
Orszaghaz: This isn't a diplo victory wonder, it's a gold generating economy wonder! Sell all that diplo favor, and usually it'll be more impactful than winning a congress (usually....)
Oracle: Very over rated IMO, simply because it costs too much in the early game compared to what it gives, and it makes no sense to build for the most powerful meta strategy, which is getting a religion. Every victory type and most civilizations want to get a religion, since monumentality and holy sites with a religion like feed the world or coral music is just completely overpowered. This means that your capital probably has a holy site first and a government plaza second, meaning the oracle kinda does nothing for you if you build it in your capital. Sure, off meta civs like Grease, Gaul, or Maya would love to have it, but for most civs, it doesn't help their most powerful strategies, and going for it kinda nerfs you.
I honestly thought I'd have more disagreements, nice list!
Thanks! I don't pivot as much as I used to, since I go into these challenge test games with one condition in mind, so I may undervalue Biosphère in that sense. For Oracle, I think that there's actually a great synergy with faith-heavy games, because I'll often use that faith to get some Great People and Oracle lowers the cost for that. I do think the tech path makes it a risky build, and I especially struggle with it in Shuffle Mode.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming Yeah, I might be undervaluing the discount on GP purchasing, especially for game changing people like Imhotep (3 practically free wonders is sooo good). It still seems situational to me, doubly so given the high risk of missing it since the AI loves it (I know you said you didn't consider that too heavily, but I think it's really important). Maybe I'll give it another chance though, since I've improved a lot since I gave up on it as a reliable strategy.
Great guide thank you
Great video. Good job!
Thank you so much!
As a kiwi I appreciate the effort on the pronunciation of Māori. Cheers 👍
Thanks. To be completely honest, it wasn't even an extra effort, as this is just how it's pronounced in Dutch. Still, happy to hear it's appreciated.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming 😂 Well, you still got it pretty close. I remember learning German down here and the teacher asked if we all knew how to say our vowels in Te Reo Māori. When we all said yes she said “Then you know how to say them in German.” And moved onto the next thing.
Civilization, the only game in which the Norwegians building Mahabodhi Temple makes sense…
That's why I love Civ. 😊
Very useful video. Might want to learn a little Spanish for basic pronunciation.
Hello new to civ 6 (and civ as a whole) can someone explain why this tier list wont work for multiplayer?
Hi, welcome to the Civ community! There are a couple reasons, and a big one is that (competitive) multiplayer uses gameplay mods that change the effects of the wonders. So for them, the video isn't even accurate. It already gets better for non-modded multiplayer, and generally I'd say wonders that come very early and very late are better against humans than against AI.
Not highlighting Gorgo for Alhambra and Statue of Zeus is criminal. Her ability literally scales off military policy slots, Alhambra is a must build!!
True, but one civ's synergy with a wonder doesn't raise its rating by a tier. I realise that I did sometimes mention those synergies but they don't factor into a tier list too much.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming So I actually misunderstood why certain civs were highlighted bc I jumped into the video after the introduction. I thought you were highlighting which civs said wonder works well for. But as I continued to watch I see it was just showing which games you built it in.
@Ottocide Ah, that makes sense, I had Alhambra as America and Statue of Zeus as the Zulu. Synergies are an interesting topic for a different video for sure. 😁
@@Zondagskind.Gaming yeah I realized I was way off pretty much immediately 😅, but I always leave my comments for the 💫engagement💫 that TH-cam so desires! I'd definitely watch :)
Having the build requirements for each one on screen would have been nice.
Yes, I did realise that after I had included the technology requirement, but by then I didn't want to reshuffle all the graphics anymore. If I ever make a revision, I think I write the requirements in the right half.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming The video was very well produced, but that info is a nice addition to have. Some wonders are a bit tricky to place.
True, and I did mention that quite often, so ideally it would be included.
How is your pronounciations so great?
Thanks, I just care and look those things up. Knowing a bit how the IPA works makes it pretty easy to get a read on how something is pronounced. 🤓
Nice video!
Thank you!
Good video. Subbed
Welcome in!
I never find colosseum or jebel useful because i super optimize my city spacing in most games to not have any overlap so i can run all the tiles per city.
Im lucky if i get 3 or 4 cities hit by their ranges
I think the benefits of mutually boosting districts, getting cities down faster, and needing less room, outweigh the benefit of eventually working all the tiles in a city.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming i have been somewhat learning the upsides. My current game im rome and just took over aztecs so im building baths in their cities and i realized i have 2 baths and a dam and two horse tiles all circled up and they give me a +14 industrial zone.
I still like spacing early and then fill later. My capitol is almost always fully spread from other cities since it is basically guaranteed to be the one i fully develop first.
There totally are dead tiles, but it feels like each city is unique this way rather than a dense meas.
Very nice video!
Thank you!
90% of the games are diplo wins lmao
Of your games, you mean? Because, for me, it's 17%, and that's with me putting a concerted effort into getting the different ones every now and again.
Nah. Even if I tried, it's hard. I only got a diplo win because I stuck to making alliances, giving favors for gold, and suzerainship on all cities etc. If you focus on a certain win you are trying to achieve, AI will keep cockblocking you in WC. I tried.
LOL .. I wonder what Ursa Ryan thinks of Oxford in A tier... I probably only got that wonder like 3 times in 2K hours of Civ 6. And I play science a lot.
I think that's mostly because the AI have a particular preference towards it, which I try to disregard. I do think it's a low A tier, partially because it has to go on a flat grassland or plains tile, which has tripped me up way too often. But I'm curious as well what Ursa would say!
@@Zondagskind.Gaming Yep. AI focus a lot in Oxford. Makes it a bit hard to get it, but the bonus is indeed very nice.
damn my guy nice brazilian portuguese pronunciation
Thanks! Full disclosure, I just wanted to look up the stress so I wouldn't say [ma-ra-CA-na] like Sean Bean, but then after practicing it I kind of went all in on accident.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming you pronounced maracanã perfectly, keep up w the good content
were yields changed? A few are different from what I remember
Maybe, but also the wiki might not always be 100% accurate. Which ones stood out to you?
@@Zondagskind.Gaming I must have forgotten Jebel Berkel gives faith to cities within 6 tiles, I thought it only gave iron so I always skipped it. I remember Biosphere and statue of liberty being different but I see those were changed in Gathering storm, although that is strange because I thought I estarted playing after gathering swarm. Looking again at a few others I realized I was just wrong though, like estadio I didn't realize gave that much culture to every city or for some reason I thought Machu PIcchu gave 8 gold
I realize I play a lot like you though, always going for as many wonders as I can lol
@@annaairahala9462 All good, and yes, wonder spamming is great! 😁
I disagree quite a lot, but still a nice analysis
It'd be boring if we all agreed. 😁 Thanks for the compliment!
28:28
yes i left a comment like a week before watching the video, but i think u didnt mention an important thing - placement requirements. They're VERY simple and easy to plan around/ But if you dont plan around them coz, idk, u forgor, then they're kinda sad, because tiles around the city itself are, at least in my games, quite often serve some purpose already
and apadana i dont like, coz the bonus is city specific, and that is just.. idk, i dont like city-specific bonuses that much
I mentioned placement requirements a couple times when relevant. Notably Hermitage drops into skippable territory because of that, and Alhambra gets pushed way down.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming yea but for the great and epic and forbidden city? no
@@benismann I felt like the technology requirement was the bigger factor in its ranking. Forbidden City goes next to any city centre, that's not too difficult.
Tnx
Machu picchu, why that thing aaa, playing with ai the ai always builds first in every civ the ai choose even they have the worst production income they still get first before me 😂
Yeah, if you want it, you basically have to delay everything else for it. It's just not worth it in my opinion.
Golden sun?
What? Where? Me?
Didn't try very hard to disregard AI preferences, some of them are rediculously out of place if you actually follow through on your "rules".
That's because I don't disregard technology and placement requirements, which might make a wonder more or less competitive, especially early doors. What I try to disregard is that AIs will go out of their way to build the Pyramids but they tend to ignore Apadana, for no other reason than their programming. Which wonders do you think are misplaced?
@@Zondagskind.Gaming great library, stonehenge and etemenanki immediately jumped out near the start(when i typed the reply) as you'd just talked about disregarding AI shortly before that, then there's pyramids and various other ones when you flatly reference AI going for them. Machu picchu being on a mountain and not taking up land space is a positive not a negative. Alhambra not being built because you don't build encampments outside of pure domination is rather wierd.
@@axxey The short version of my answer is I still take into account that the AI exists and will build wonders, but picks them more randomly. So how competitive a wonder is, is still a factor. Otherwise it's only about effect and yes, then the ranking would be different. But the ranking would also have been different if I hadn't tried to disregard AI preferences. Great Bath, Machu, Pyramids, Potala Palace would be lower, while Mont St. Michel, Országház, and Amundsen-Scott would benefit.
Great Library: like I said, to be *comfortable* building it, you'd need to be ahead in both science and culture, which - regardless of whether the AI actually builds the Great Library - the early Classical Era is the worst time for. Basically, have it unlock anywhere else and it instantly improves a tier.
Stonehenge: would still be in E tier if the AI never built it, since you still can't get it reliably before an AI just naturally gets their Prophet. Getting a Holy Site and projecting for your religion is just better.
Etemenanki: very specific in that, by beelining it, you have to help your neighbour also unlock it. Also, sure, pair it with Reeds and Marshes and it's fantastic, but quite a lot of civs and maps don't synergise with that.
Pyramids: would be way lower if I'd taken AI preference into account, I even said it'd be S tier if it went on non-desert, even though you would then never be able to build it.
Machu: you can't use Great Engineers on it, ergo there's no "picking it up later", so it's the hardest commitment bar none, and for that the effect just isn't as good in practice as it sounds. BTW this one would be in E tier if I took AI preferences into account.
Alhambra: in Science Victories, I do build Encampments at some point, but not as a priority, and I don't usually build them in Cultural and Religious Victories. Maybe that's weird, but then my tier list is about how useful I find a wonder, and a wonder that has to go next to a district I don't often build is going to suffer for it. Basically Alhambra is often good in games in which I can't build it, and in the games I could build it I often don't really need it.
So hopefully that clears up why my ranks are the way they are. I'm happy to expand on them if you have more questions.
0:06
you are insane. After civ5, almost none of civ6 wonders *feel* right
I guess I'm lucky then, since Civ VI was my first Civ game. I might have this feeling once Civ VII comes out.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming to be fair wonders in civ5 were a lot stronger, so probably that's why
Silly tier list, and not something I would put much faith in when you play deity on a high level. Just one example (and there are many): Wonders like Biosphere are trash tier, because they arrive so late that you are just a few turns away from winning, and offers no real bonus towards winning anyway. And who keeps marsh/jungle around in large quantities all game? Not gonna bother commenting on the rest, but this is one example of the tier list becoming silly when we let trash like Biosphere sit on the upper half of the list.
As I explained, it sits that high because you can build your entire game around it. If we're talking about optimal plays, there's very few wonders that you should even consider building at all. What wonder have I put lower than Biosphère, that you think is better than it?
@@Zondagskind.Gaming My question is, why would you build your entire game around it to begin with (unless we are making a tier rating particularly for Brazil that is playing a meme strategy)? In general, sure you would get extra power or some appeal from it, but neither of these bonuses matter at this point, because the wonder unlocks so late, and offers no real bonus to winning. The bonus on this wonder (especially relative to when you can get it) is so bad that it's essentially like having 0 bonuses on it. Alhambra is the only one I think should be higher (most of the ones in D and below are fine and belong at the bottom), because it arrives relatively early and it's a card which is always useful. I'm not saying its a great wonder, but its definitely a lot better than Biosphere. Biosphere I built once (just for having built it at all), but Alhambra is something I will consider often enough (assuming its still available and I have an encampment up, which may or may not apply).
Etemenanki is something I also disagree with, but you commented that it's hit or miss, which is ok with that caveat (it is hit or miss after all). But When it gets a C and junk like Biosphere gets knocked up to C as well (or Jebel Barkal gets B, making it "better" than Etemenanki), the relative strength ceases to make meaning. Etemenanki is easily one of the strongest wonders in the game, IF you can get it with the right pantheon. Thats a big if, but this is a wonder I will not hesitate to shoot for assuming I have a marsh heavy map. That is not something I can say often for Jebel Barkal, and NEVER something I will ever say for a wonder like Biosphere. Getting Etemenanki in the right circumstance is essentially like being able to say "lol, I just made the game go from deity to prince difficulty". In the ancient era, where it actually matters. It's not a wonder I go for often, but when I go for it I know that its gonna break the game for me.
@@samuelhakansson6680 The Biosphère Tourism isn't a Brazil-only strategy, it was originally done with Phoenicia, which is why it was called the "Didosphere". It centres around the tourism from power improvements (and harbour buildings with Cardiff). Also, I did use it in a couple science games, it's basically an insurance policy that you can do laser projects even without Aluminium.
Okay, I can see a swap between Biosphère and Alhambra. But if you say everything at D-tier "should be at the bottom", then that's a very big bottom tier. Just like I have to tell people that not everything can be A-tier, not everything can be F-tier either.
Jebel Barkal is, in my experience, just more consistent than Etemenanki, by being useful on more map types, and the tech path not specifically requiring you to help your neighbour unlock it.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming No, my point was that everything at D tier and belongs there at the bottom (D is the bottom half of the list after all), so its fine for the most part.
My bad, I didnt understand that you specifically wanted to play around with the power/tourist mechanic. I generally dont like to play that, as my culture games are usually over shortly after I get natural parks unlocked (storing a faith bank and painting the map with natural parks through Theocracy for the discount). I guess if you want to delay the game )as well as focus on the tech tree rather than the civics tree) to reach late game techs (solar farms etc.) and winning off of it for tourist purposes its ok, and it does allow you go use sea tiles for tourism. But I generally think thats a somewhat meme strat, and a power ranking in a tier list should reflect that.
@@samuelhakansson6680 Having spoken to a couple of speedrunners, I'm convinced most wonders are a meme-strat, so I try to give the late-game wonders a little leeway as long as they're powerful enough to at least close the game pretty much immediately, which Biosphère does, Golden Gate might, but Sydney Opera House really doesn't. It's hard to make a sound comparison of wonders from different eras, I think if we made lists per era, we'd agree much more.
Loved this video, information presented very concisely, wish you did more edited/analysis video, you are really talented in it and Im not much for unedited let's plays
Thanks! I'll keep the feedback in mind for the last civ I haven't played yet (Yongle's China). So far word seems to be people prefer a shorter edit over turn-by-turn let's plays.