i had misspoke about Amongus-Scott in this video - the extra 40% only effects cities with snow tiles not just EVERY city~ thank you for correcting me~!
Woah woah woah. Golden Gate Bridge, a terrible wonder? Colosseum can't be used as a bridge so that my builder can travel to the single deer island tile without going in the water. Case closed.
@@bobhotpocket1875 prolly cause it doesnt Help any wincon too much Nice to Connect a City to the sea or two seas yadayada I Like it very much but i feel it doesnt contribute enough to be Better than Others. Too rare that u really Need this Connection of water ways
@@oliverarent3375plus u can't build it thru hills... It's like the dumbbies at fraxis never looked at the real panama canal .. they dug thru so many hills lol
@@dogborf7909 I have had a couple of games where I could actually make really good use of the ocean crossing feature. But it's the most conditionally useful wonder in the game after Panama.
One thing you didnt mention about the power of Mausoleum at Halicarnassus is that it speeds up science victory by 30 turns with great Engineer Sergei Korolev. In 3 turns Launch Mars Colony and Exoplanet Expedition project can be completed.
This is a really solid list! A few remarks I have: - Greath Bath is S-tier in the Apocalypse mode where you can use Soothsayers to boost the tiles at will rather than having to rely on RNG alone. Combined with the Voidsingers and especially as Ethiopia its potential is unrivaled. - Great Zimbabwe has one additional effect/strategy: the Honeypot. Apparantly the city with the Great Zimbabwe is the prime target for AI Spies to Siphon Funds from, so you can use that city to level up your own Spies through counterspying, and then retaliate with Master Spy operations. Fun to have as Catherine de Medici. - I would put Hermitage into D. It is expensive, takes a spot next to a River (where Districts or better Wonders like Big Ben could be), and it gives almost no immediate benefits upon completion. The only Leader that can make great use of it is Kristina. If this Wonder could be themed it would be much better. - Agree on Jebel. The faith can be strong, and because it takes Desert Hill (which are generally of low value) it's not a huge sacrifice of a tile. - Oracle does have stupid stacking potential. If you pick the Divine Spark Pantheon, choose Classical Republic, and get Pingala with Grants in your Oracle, a single Campus with a Library or a single Theatre Square with an Amphitheatre will yield you respectively 11.5 Great Scientist or 11.5 Great Writer points per turn, enough to get one of the early Great people in 5-10 turns.
I tend to go for Hermitage and/or Bolshoi Theatre in all my culture games where I focus on Great Works cause I never have enough great work slots for all the artists I'm getting and it's a lot easier than setling a city, getting a district, and then getting two buildings in the district
@@f0rm0r And potentially more powerful too, because the wonder-building city might have Pingala with the Curator promotion. That combination with Kristina is absolutely devastating - no "is it really worth it?" arguments with her.
Spicy take: Stonehenge exists for no fucking reason except to give the human player an aneurism when they see that the final turn they lose the religion they want when they’re absolutely certain it’s 100% safe Addendum: it’s also just a dead fucking tile so it’s worthless still even if you conquer it.
I believe stonhenge also lets you purchase religious units on it, so you can buy up to 3 units per turn in that city as opposed to 2 with enough faith per turn. Not that it matters, since those units would have to travel way too far to be useful
Potala Palace - I don't think I agree that it's only useful in Diplomatic Victory games. I kind of think the +1 Diplomatic Victory point is the less impactful ability. You can easily win Diplo victories without it. The extra card slot is more important, and having an extra Diplomatic card slot is useful in any kind of victory condition. I agree that B tier is about right though.
@@shinydavidhowellEarly game it's a tie, late game diplo slots are wildly better imo. It's not an overwhelming win but I don't see any way to argue economic slots are better than diplo slots, while end game diplo slots are by far clearly superior. Still, either beats military slots comfortably, IMO
I think Alhambra is kinda underated even in peaceful games as it allows you to run Logistics without sacrifizing harbor production/extra coal or aluminum/+15% to space race
It basically allows any science civ to get that sneaky-good bit of Germany's kit (albeit later, with extra production on something that doesn't offer that much else, and you need to build other military infrastructure to even unlock it - although that's possibly a good idea for a science civ anyway)
I like it too because it gives me a slot to put in the card for +1 movement speed in my empire is a very nice quality of life card. it’s really good for builders and military engineers if you want to build railroads
I think it would be cool and new to make a tier list of regular units. Like how spearman is pretty useless besides for the eurekas, probably D tier. How archers and crossbowman used to be S tier but after that last patch are just OK. How charriots are so trash because they take so long to upgrade.
I came to this video because I wanted someone to intellectually explain how the Panama Canal wonder works so I can build it in a meme game and I was not prepared to get absolutely fucking dunked on💀
Recently i discovered that the +1 engineer charge makes leonardo give your workshops not +3 but +6 culture after activating him the 2nd time which is just bonkerz
This may be especially outrageous with Japan. They can stack Workshop culture with Electronics Factory culture and smash into the late-game civics without even many Theatre Squares, and their coastal start bias mean their Maus city could well be their capital... (Australia have this advantage also, but may not build enough IZs given their appeal focus. Certainly I tend to want to use Work Ethic-enhanced Holy Sites as surrogate IZs that add rather than remove appeal...)
Finally someone speaks up for Jebel Barkal! The extra iron is really good in culture games as well since you can get this wonder quite early and trade the iron for gold. 6 iron a turn is quite a lot. The iron trading usually falls off quickly but it's kinda like free diplo points.
It's also ludicrously synergistic with Mali, and it arrives at a good time for them - right after their bonuses start being actual bonuses rather than penalties.
Mausoleum of Halicarnassus is also good for a late Culture victory because that one tick of culture on shallow water tiles is enough for seasteads to start generating tourism regardless of them being next to a reef. Also, Biosphere once helped me make a national park out of a bunch of smelly marsh tiles. For that screenshot alone, it's my fav.
Golden gate bridge is not just for national parks. If you think about it its amazing for a resort heavy city. -Your city will be coastal anyway, like you said. -+4 appeal stacks amazingly with resorts, their gold output is centered around it and their tourism equals their gold output. - +100% to that tourism, so you're doubling all that tourism from those resorts. It's easily a wonder that can add 50+ tourism with just 3 resorts. -Baseline resort needs to be charming I think but say its breathtaking. So +4 Tourism. Add 4 appeal, that's 8 tourism. Double that, 16 tourism. A single tile gives you 16 tourism. Not bad. And if you have any other appeal modifiers, and have like 5 resorts. You're pushing into the hundreds. Golden gate be tripling the tourism of any resort city. Hard to build though, I will agree on that.
that is very valid criticism, and i think i'm very jaded when it comes to the difficulty to place it which is why i ranked it so low, but those are great points
I think GGB is a fabulous wonder, it's just impossible to build. But when you can it's crazy good. I got it in a one city challenge game with something like 6 national parks once, and it was basically making like 300 tourism/turn.
It's definitely worth downgrading for how likely it is that you plain don't build it - it's a one-win-condition wonder that you can't even rely on building in that one win condition, but is absolutely outrageous when you do. It's basically cultural Amongus-Scott, isn't it?
@@shinydavidhowell Yeah you could make that comparison, but it really only benefits one city. But regardless, I certainly don't think it's F tier, probably C or high D with how much better it can be than some of those other wonders in those tiers
Yeah you pretty much have to put Amundsen-Scott in the same territory as Golden Gate - either both are F-tier or neither are. (I might honestly lean towards "both are" but considering just how hard they can both accelerate the ending I may be wrong?)
Worrior monks are good for one thing and one thing only: they can be easily form into corps. Some religion/ cultural games when you don't build a lot of units this can cut down some of the unit building time to boost the civic.
2:30 this is a misunderstanding that I had for a long time. However, the placement requirement and the bonus is PER CITY. Hence, the placement of the Amundsen-Scott city doesn't affect other cities, but those other cities need to be in snowy regions to get the double yields.
Great video as always, thank you. I find that Venetian Arsenal can stack really well with Alexander's unique building. You can spam out boats with the right policy cards, even kill them immediately if you can't afford them, and reap loads of science.
Hah! Kilwa is also outrageous in the hands of Tamar when her kit comes together. Kilwa/Georgia rivals Colosseum/Scotland for "S-tier wonder for anyone/meme-tier civ without that wonder"
My gripe with Machu Picchu is that it can't be sped up by china. I got around this with a mod that lets chinas builders speed up adjacent wonders, as apposed to wonder tiles the builder is directly on top of.
I think I rate extra policy card slots more highly, but otherwise I think I mainly agree with most of these. What I love about Civ is we all have our quirks in how we play and what we find important so I really enjoy a well explained tier list. I always come away with something new to think about, so thanks!
Just a case that happened to me recently. I was playing with Cristina of Sweden and I built the Apadana then I spent most turns in may main city making wonders and just when I got build the Oxford University I got the achievement of making 7 wonders in the main city the Apadana is in. A surprise to be sure, but a welcomed one.
Pyramids is almost ungettable for me on deity. literally have to start with stone to get the eureka to masonry and have a desert tile near my capital. The games I do get it I feel like I've completely tanked my game....like hey look turn 60 and I have 2 or 3 cities and no districts. I love the effects, but I couldn't put it in S because what you give up early to get it makes me cringe.
It’s not even worth it imo. You can get the extra builder charge from liang, for far less investment and you’re guaranteed to get it if you decide you want it. Then a bit later you can plug in the feudalism builder card for +2 build charges. That’s 6 charges, right at the time when you’re going to want to be spamming them more, and 5 charge builders for any new city you settle via ancestral halls. At that point the +1 charge from pyramids is just not that much extra compared to what you need to sacrifice in the super early game to get it. I’m pretty sure for the same production you could have built a campus AND a settler / it’s just not worth it that early game.
Eiffel tower not being in the same tier as Christo Redentor is a crime. Boosting appeal by 2 increases national parks tourism output by 8 and, when paired with cristo, seaside resorts have increased tourism by 4 and gold by 2. Not to mention it also increases tourism by ski resorts on mountains. And also preserves and earth goddess also work really well with it.
Worth noting if you are using the secret society vampires, Chichan Nza becomes a lot better. It makes an amazing vampire castle if you can get 3-4 surrounding it rainforest tiles surrounding it
S Tier Petra on a single dessert tile city. 😔👌 Jokes aside, i agree with your tier list, since i got a grip of the game, i never go for Stonehenge, better prepare for Kilwa, Colosseum, and Oracle. And i think, i just built that Golden Gate once, to make a city look pretty.
BOES! Just letting you know I love your work and your personality. I just discovered you recently when I picked up CIV. Binge watching a ton of your videos has helped me greatly as I’m going through some really tough times. Been trying to catch a stream but it’s super hard with work, keep up the great work my dude!
Conversely, I think that the Great Engineer charge on Maus is massively _overrated_ and that you're missing out if you don't get at least some yields out of it. I pulled up my recent victories not long ago to did a quick scan of how many Great Engineers I actually earned, and when. The results were a little underwhelming! Culture and Religious victories generally involved earning 0 or 1, and Science and Dom games usually involved a small handful, many of whom came so late that victory was already well in hand. If you happen to get Imhotep, yeah, absolutely knock it out regardless of victory condition, it's basically free then. But if the main benefit is an extra charge of Filippo and Eiffel, you're effectively paying 400 early game production to get 800 late game production -- pretty dubious in isolation. It by no means is a bad wonder, but like Colosseum, I feel like its value stems in part from the fact that the AI doesn't like to build it, giving you a lot of leisure in when and where to plop it down.
A lot depends on which Great Engineers you have. As you say, extra Filippo / Eiffel charges are basically worth a few hundred extra production; an extra Da Vinci charge, conversely, is worth a bunch of culture per turn from midgame onwards; other second-charge bonuses can be much worse. Of course, Scotland's kit means that Maus is truly epic for them, and if you're _against_ them you're pretty much only building Maus for the yield and to deny them it?
I personally love it because I'm a bit slow on my Science victories so just stalling until I get the Space Race Engi and instantly getting Sattelite to Exoplanet in 4 turns is pretty funny
St.Basil seems a bit situational to put in A tier. Taj Mahal could also go down a tier; there are so many ways to earn era score past mid-game that it's usually overkill. I find Etemenanki iffy, it incentivizes preserving floodplains but then where do I place districts, on hills? Idk, maybe I just don't know how to utilize it's early-game powerspike, but then it does cost a lot of resources in the first place to get. Otherwise I mostly agree with your list. edit: Oh, and I have to add, I honestly don't see why Oracle is so highly rated. Deity AI likes to spam project so much that it doesn't really do much. I just don't think it's worth the tempo loss of building a wonder early in the game.
I think you are on the right track with a Deity Tier. The Deity AI rushes early wonders except for TOA so hard that they usually aren't worth going for.
And of course you're just inviting early rushes with those wonders. Heck, even in the even multiplayer starts I've had a game where someone rushed the Great Bath when spawning next to my teammate who went with Montezuma - those sick yields were Aztec yields by the start of the classical era lol
I like Venetian. Halves the production or naval units. Extremely useful if you primarily have coastal cities for defense and having a dominant naval presence.
Pyramids give an extra charge to existing builders too similar to what Mausoleum does to engineers. It could be a good idea to delay using the last charge on a builder if pyramids is coming up pretty soon.
Gorgo gets +1 combat strength for every military card equipped, not slots in government. In other words, military cards in wildcard slots give that bonus too.
The only ones I majorly disagree with are Statue of Liberty and Orthodontist or however you spell it. Diplomatic Victories are super easy and underrated IMO. You just get like 10-15 points through easy guesses and competitions, burn all your diplo favor in one world congress to get +3-5 points, then build the statue of liberty to instantly win before the AI realizes they need to stop you. Sure, it's only useful for one victory condition, but it's IMO the easiest one to get and will always be the most important wonder for it. Easily at least A tier, but I would even argue S tier because of how laughably easy Diplo victories are with it.
Victoria: You tread on dangerous waters in the face of England and her loyal colonies. Player: Ha! I have Venetian Arsenal. What are you gonna do about it?
Pyramids, Colosseum, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, Ruhr Valley, and Venetian Arsenal are the wonders I really try for. I never thought the end game wonders were very good, but now that the end game takes a lot longer than it used to, before all the future tech/ civics additions, I may have to rethink my stance on late game wonders
Kind of a shame to see my favorite wonder (Alhambra) ranked so low, but I can understand your logic. I definitely have an affinity for free policy slots and I'm probably overrating the military slot, but Alhambra is still one of those wonders I always try to have in my game cause I love having all the extra policies and also It's just so pretty :D I would argue that it's C or even B tier but maybe on Prince it just fits my playstyle better? Or maybe I just think it's cool idk
I like Alhambra too - policy slots are always great. And I'm surprised he didn't value the 2 Amenities more given how important they are now. But on Deity I find that the AI grabs it kind of early, so it's harder to get than some others. I struggle with getting it because I don't tend to build early Encampments.
I agree. For me any Wonder that gives extra policies is minimum C tier. And Alhambra gives amenities as well which is a great bonus. Its better than some of the Wonders in C here imo
I’m guessing most of your games end up going into the late game, and your victories end up with the Augustus Ceasar ranking (2500+) If so, it’s refreshing to know there’s someone else out there who enjoys brutally long games 👏
Honestly, Orszaghaz is excellent for a domination victory. If you're getting diplo punished by the AI bc you've already wiped a couple civs, that extra diplo favor can keep unwanted emergencies off your back, or it at the very least keeps you still at least a little relevant in world congress, which might be the difference between a dom win and loss.
I think Golden Gate should be D tier, just because you can spam city-state or civ improvements that provide tourism and get a killer tourism city reasonably often with it, especially if you plan to do so fairly far in advance. Most of the time I get it I can turn the city into a good tourism city using it, the problem is just finding somewhere to build it.
Good list, I do like to build a Petra city if I see a desert natural wonder tho. Petra makes those tiles great, fast. Plus the and AI usually wont snipe you on it if you wait around a bit
I have to disagree with putting the Golden Gate Bridge in F tier. If you have a city with a National Park and and you're going for a tourism victory, and the city can build the Golden Gate Bridge, I think it's clearly worth it. If it's not in a city with a National Park, it's not worth it. But I think that it's useful just often enough to be a D tier wonder. I love doing tourism victory games, so I choose that path quite often, and there are times when I do build this wonder because it is useful. I think this is better than the D tier Meenakshi temple which I wouldn't build even if I was going for a religious victory.
The biggest thing about the Oracle is that you can faith-buy every great person 25% cheaper, not just heroes. That's really game-changing as it can save you thousands of faith.
One thing you didn’t mention about Machu pichu is good because you can build it on a mountain so it doesn’t take up a tile. I would put it in C tier. Also I find that deity AI doesn’t push it as often, but that’s just anecdotal, sometimes it’s gone crazy fast
Seaside resorts become insanely good w/ Golden Gate Bridge, extra 4 gold and 4 tourism from each resort. Do agree on Colosseum, I need to build it more lol, still great video, your insight is super interesting.
the venetian arsenal is definitely only good in specific circumstances, but there was one game where i was playing as germany, was in the atomic era and noticed that no-one had built it yet; managed to crank it out in like 12 turns, then used it to make like 6 u-boat armadas. granted i didn't really use them for anything but it was still fun to have
Good list from my experience playing on Deity. Your S tiers are all the pretty much objectively correct choices. I would argue that Oracle should be in S tier with the others though, it’s impact on a game is pretty much irreplaceable. Generally you gave a lot of credit to the wonders that give additional slots, except Alhambra for some reason? I don’t really understand Alhambras low placement. That extra military slot can be so impactful. Oftentimes if you’re constantly warmongering you’re going to want some combination of (and apologies as I don’t know the card names off the top of my head) the Raid, Unit Maintenance reduction, 50% off Resource/Gold upgrade cost, 50% extra unit production cost, and potentially others like the extra accumulation of strategic resources and that extra policy slot is SO valuable. I know you can time things and constantly change out your government cards but a lot of the ones I mentioned you don’t really ever want to take out if you can avoid it. Great Library also is maybe too low. The sheer amount of value it generates over the course of a science game in its great scientist points + boosts goes a long way to chipping off those valuable turns leading into and after researching the Spaceport. I understand that you gave it a small penalty because it’s hard to get on Deity, but when Stonehenge can make S tier despite it also being very difficult to make, it feels too harsh. As for wonders that are maybe too high, Huey Teocalli feels like a prime candidate. While theoretically it can be a very good wonder to get, those potential amenities gains are real,it’s super situational and has a lot of factors going against it. You need to have a city on a prime lake position, to justify making it you would likely need at least 4+ adjacent lake tiles so it needs to be a sizeable one as well. Generally building a city on a lake never feels great, you can get the harbour but you lose out on access to the ocean for trade routes and coastal resources, with pretty much no gains to make up for it. It’s also in a weird spot on the tech tree where it isn’t too deep it but it sucks to prioritize because it leads nowhere of value very quickly when you would much rather be going top tree most of the time. Also I swear it’s built just as quickly as something like macchu picchu in my games but maybe that’s just me. Good video overall, thanks boes 👍
hahahah yeah that's why i try to explain that this is mostly coming from someone who tries to win before some of these even come on line its a great wonder, especially if you're planning for around 250 turns or more!
The only thing I disagree with is Forbidden City. In my opinion it is the single most versatile and effective wonder in the game. It makes every single victory condition one policy slot easier, and we know how insane of a difference a single policy card can make.
I'm replying to this amazing video a whole year later to defend Petra's honor! You can also prio Petra in John Curtin games because you can build Outback Stations in Desert tiles as well as sometimes being lucky enough to spike a Lamb tile on Desert for some pretty sweet Pastures. Final verdict - B tier :)
Gotta say, I love how standardized the tier list is. Always bothered me when someone made a tier, and half the stuff is S or A tier Lovin the content Mr. Boes.
Obviously, Civ 6 is VERY different from Civ 5, which I played a lot in Immortal. But it's so interesting to see what's changed from one game to the other. I remember Alhambra being one of the best wonders and seeing it like this is kinda sad.
Talking about the Mahabodhi Temple - it also gives 2 diplo victory points. So if you need to, you can more easily pivot to a diplomatic victory type later on
Great tier list. Couple of comments: I've tried to build Mahabodhi Temple to finish off my religion three times now, but I find it surprisingly hard to place because of the best place for holy sites and campuses is between your city and mountains, and I either haven't had woods in the 4-5 cities I have when I need to found the religion, or I would have needed to put it on a +3/4 campus site. The Mausoleum is yield porn if you're running a coastal city with the Lingu and aquaculture/fishing boats. Like a lot of wonders (Chichen, etc.), it just depends on having the right city for it. In the same vein I wouldn't compare Petra to a grassland city because there are lots of times when you want/need a desert city, and Petra can turn a marginal city into a powerhouse.
I agree with Colossieum being S tier but I wanted to point out the culture aspect which is very powerful. First, having automatic +2 culture per turn in starting cities, without a monument, is huge for tile acquisition. I'm guessing, but a city starting with +2 culture passive, should be able to capture 4 tiles in like 18 turns, multiplied by 4ish, and that's crazy. The second point, is it's a great platform a culture play since you are required to build an entertainment complex + wonder, which means a theatre district gets an immediate +4, which is a nice compound to the investment.
Generally, I aim for Colossieum in my 2nd city, with a good water mill. That nails the construction eureka chain and helps develop production for the district and wonder. I try to buy the arena as well. it's a pretty stream-lined play that works for a lot of scenarios.
To be fair, certain types of CIVs, and situations may change which wonders make sense to build. For Amanitore, and John Curtin, a Petra/desert capital could really kick ass….St. Basil’s Cathedral/tundra with Russia or Canada is another one if you’re into tile resource porn.
IF Jebel Barkal could be built on any Hill, it would at least be A-tier for me; however, because of it's Desert Hill restriction, B-tier is a great choice. Great Wonder, just hard to build it if you don't have a Desert start
Terracotta Army has one effect that is not so obvious and can be usefull. It gives a promotion also to all your spies, including those that already have the max. number of 3 promotions. They get a fourth one.
So many wonders i didn't realize all their potentials I have the same S Tier list but with all these descriptions, i thought to build a giga empire with science and production modifiers for a fast Space victory (all wonders with science modifier and all wonders with production modifiers)
I've actually managed to get Stonehenge on deity at least once, maybe twice. The production value is rarely worth it compared to other wonders you could be chasing early game. The first time I built Stonehenge on deity, something didn't feel right. I checked the difficulty and sure enough my settings weren't saved and I was actually playing on Prince.
Mahabodi is also A-tier because of the 2 Diplomatic victory points. Those are hard to come by early game. My diplo games often start out building harbors and holy sites to get mahabodi and statue of liberty. Having a religion is generally good in case of religious emergencies too.
I think Casa del Contratacion is pretty strong if combined with a gold economy or even with an empire strongly built upon faith - the 3 additional governor points allow to unlock the ability to buy new districts with gold or faith with ease. This will help new cities to grow fastly and have soon a good impact.
The Dido synergy is pretty sick too. Run Move Capital on a new continent to finish just before Casa, plug in Colonial Taxes, enjoy being Mali with actual production. This combo allowed me to basically out-Portugal Portugal with her in a multiplayer game where the other best player in the group was playing as them. Had almost as much gold, far more rounded yields, and smashed out space projects in my Pingala/Ruhr Valley OG capital.
Situational notes for Babylon: Great Library is absolutely phenomenal for Babylon. Great Scientist generation is also in general great. Terracotta Army is great for the meme strat of going for Ambush Spec Ops as Babylon.
Petra is fun in Heroes and Legends, if you can plan in advance, to use Maui to plonk down extra resources on the desert tiles before you even claim them with your desert city...
Though I have not experimented with it (and probably never will), I'd put Machu Picchu in F tier. Campus and holy districts already have mountain adjacency bonuses, and are often more important than commercial hubs. Also, the alchemical society and tithe belief can give you a lot of gold based off science and faith respectively.
The other time you build Petra is when Nazca is in the game. Stonehenge is honestly awful though, saying as someone rarely plays on Deity. If you're hoping to play religion you will need to build Holy Sites and will get your Prophet eventually anyway. The production is 10x better spent on an early holy site + shrine.
Alhambra at D tier huh. At its worst this wonder reads (+1 movement to all your units in your territory). I agree it is the worst of the Policy card wonders but I still feel this is a B or C
Agreed on your Petra take. Its biggest problem imo is the sheer cost to build it. 400 production is a ton for a desert city that can't grow. You're either looking at a worthless city that takes 50+ turns to build Petra and finally get going. Or you need to reroute your trade routes, 'waste' builder charges on subpar mines, etc.; all to get Petra out in a reasonable amount of turns... which is usually still longer than wonders in non-desert cities *without* all the investment. Investment you could have used to make already good cities even better. It's still fun to build because of the yield porn and at least the AI doesn't really care about it. But unless you're playing as Mali or Nubia, it's more a late game "I'm already winning, I'm bored, let's do dumb stuff" wonder than anything else.
I build the Apadana all of the time because the AI is too allergic to it and +2 culture ain't that bad on my theater district As for favorite wonder, Petra is always awesome but gettinf Pyramids up is almost euphoric for me
What makes Ruhr Valley A tier and not S? I’m just curious, I thought for space race projects it was ridiculously strong, like to the point of maybe being the strongest wonder for that victory type
Any wonder that gives a policy slot is automatically minimum C tier. Especially when chichen itza is somehow there at C tier. Alhambra is definitely better than that since it can help your whole empire. Maybe its veterancy when you've got lots of harbors, craftsmen for IZ adjacency, integrated space cell etc. Far more potential utility.
Hah! I suck at this game but managed to get Etemenanki on Deity. Maybe it’s only possible using Hammurabi, but it does not belong in an “ungettable” tier. I strung together eurekas and got Eremenanki and Hanging Gardens by something like turn 35. Maybe a bit later but I was pretty proud given the difficulty setting and my general ineptitude. Hammurabi is not to be trifled with.
I never knew that about Jebel! I thought it was a flat +4! I'd only ever use it because Japan needs samurai and theres no iron on the damn continent, but now this is something I can put into that 1 random desert tile in the center of my people's land!
![fellow fellow - PROUD feat. INK WARUNTORN [STRING QUARTET]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BQrVkMPTdHE/mqdefault.jpg)
i had misspoke about Amongus-Scott in this video - the extra 40% only effects cities with snow tiles not just EVERY city~ thank you for correcting me~!
How did I not know this. I’ve wasted so much time positioning my amongus Scott city to have 5 snow tiles thinking I was boosting my entire civ.
unsubbed!!!!!
Oh didn‘t know that. Thought it hits the whole empire as well
That explains a lot!
*affect
Woah woah woah. Golden Gate Bridge, a terrible wonder? Colosseum can't be used as a bridge so that my builder can travel to the single deer island tile without going in the water. Case closed.
…or cross the Bering Straight…
One weird thing about Terracotta Army. If you get it late game it can give your spies a fourth promotion.
Depending on how you place it, the Panama Canal looks like a spiky S. Thus, S-tier confirmed.
One cool thing is it gives you a +4 IZ by itself
So why do people hate the panamal do much??
@@bobhotpocket1875 prolly cause it doesnt Help any wincon too much
Nice to Connect a City to the sea or two seas yadayada
I Like it very much but i feel it doesnt contribute enough to be Better than Others. Too rare that u really Need this Connection of water ways
@@oliverarent3375plus u can't build it thru hills... It's like the dumbbies at fraxis never looked at the real panama canal .. they dug thru so many hills lol
What sucks is only the tile you placed it on counts as a wonder so you can't get gigachad theater squares with it.
Gold gate bridge is a wonder you build because it looks good on the map and you can.
you're not wrong
It is a wonder you build because its such a rare wonder to even be able to build
@@dogborf7909 I have had a couple of games where I could actually make really good use of the ocean crossing feature. But it's the most conditionally useful wonder in the game after Panama.
@@olivercarle Sometimes building a wonder isn't about what practical use it can serve, but often humans build things for the sheer marvel of it all.
A note about the Mausoleum - if you use the last charge of a great engineer to finish it, the engineer will come back with one charge iirc
One thing you didnt mention about the power of Mausoleum at Halicarnassus
is that it speeds up science victory by 30 turns with great Engineer Sergei Korolev. In 3 turns Launch Mars Colony and Exoplanet Expedition project can be completed.
This is a really solid list!
A few remarks I have:
- Greath Bath is S-tier in the Apocalypse mode where you can use Soothsayers to boost the tiles at will rather than having to rely on RNG alone. Combined with the Voidsingers and especially as Ethiopia its potential is unrivaled.
- Great Zimbabwe has one additional effect/strategy: the Honeypot. Apparantly the city with the Great Zimbabwe is the prime target for AI Spies to Siphon Funds from, so you can use that city to level up your own Spies through counterspying, and then retaliate with Master Spy operations. Fun to have as Catherine de Medici.
- I would put Hermitage into D. It is expensive, takes a spot next to a River (where Districts or better Wonders like Big Ben could be), and it gives almost no immediate benefits upon completion. The only Leader that can make great use of it is Kristina. If this Wonder could be themed it would be much better.
- Agree on Jebel. The faith can be strong, and because it takes Desert Hill (which are generally of low value) it's not a huge sacrifice of a tile.
- Oracle does have stupid stacking potential. If you pick the Divine Spark Pantheon, choose Classical Republic, and get Pingala with Grants in your Oracle, a single Campus with a Library or a single Theatre Square with an Amphitheatre will yield you respectively 11.5 Great Scientist or 11.5 Great Writer points per turn, enough to get one of the early Great people in 5-10 turns.
I tend to go for Hermitage and/or Bolshoi Theatre in all my culture games where I focus on Great Works cause I never have enough great work slots for all the artists I'm getting and it's a lot easier than setling a city, getting a district, and then getting two buildings in the district
@@f0rm0r And potentially more powerful too, because the wonder-building city might have Pingala with the Curator promotion. That combination with Kristina is absolutely devastating - no "is it really worth it?" arguments with her.
With Oracle and Pedro I got so many great people I didn't know what to do with them.
I did the Apocalypse thing but then my city was taken out by a meteor, so...
I love Oracle for my Babylon capital. It's also great when you have too much faith to use and burn it on buying Great People for Golden Ages.
Spicy take: Stonehenge exists for no fucking reason except to give the human player an aneurism when they see that the final turn they lose the religion they want when they’re absolutely certain it’s 100% safe
Addendum: it’s also just a dead fucking tile so it’s worthless still even if you conquer it.
I only go Stone Hedges when I play Byzantium but even then I would rather have a monument or rushed holy site up and running
Stonehenge gives tourism so it's not a dead tile. Having said that, it's still horrible.
hahahahahah ok i like this take
Stonehenge also gives 2 faith per turn so it isn’t 100% dead but I still get what you mean.
I believe stonhenge also lets you purchase religious units on it, so you can buy up to 3 units per turn in that city as opposed to 2 with enough faith per turn. Not that it matters, since those units would have to travel way too far to be useful
Potala Palace - I don't think I agree that it's only useful in Diplomatic Victory games. I kind of think the +1 Diplomatic Victory point is the less impactful ability. You can easily win Diplo victories without it. The extra card slot is more important, and having an extra Diplomatic card slot is useful in any kind of victory condition. I agree that B tier is about right though.
I'd say diplomatic cards are the second best after wildcard
I'd *tentatively* go economic? But the late-game diplomatic cards can be game-breaking.
@@shinydavidhowellEarly game it's a tie, late game diplo slots are wildly better imo. It's not an overwhelming win but I don't see any way to argue economic slots are better than diplo slots, while end game diplo slots are by far clearly superior.
Still, either beats military slots comfortably, IMO
I think Alhambra is kinda underated even in peaceful games as it allows you to run Logistics without sacrifizing harbor production/extra coal or aluminum/+15% to space race
It basically allows any science civ to get that sneaky-good bit of Germany's kit (albeit later, with extra production on something that doesn't offer that much else, and you need to build other military infrastructure to even unlock it - although that's possibly a good idea for a science civ anyway)
I like it too because it gives me a slot to put in the card for +1 movement speed in my empire is a very nice quality of life card. it’s really good for builders and military engineers if you want to build railroads
I think it would be cool and new to make a tier list of regular units. Like how spearman is pretty useless besides for the eurekas, probably D tier. How archers and crossbowman used to be S tier but after that last patch are just OK. How charriots are so trash because they take so long to upgrade.
I came to this video because I wanted someone to intellectually explain how the Panama Canal wonder works so I can build it in a meme game and I was not prepared to get absolutely fucking dunked on💀
Recently i discovered that the +1 engineer charge makes leonardo give your workshops not +3 but +6 culture after activating him the 2nd time which is just bonkerz
This may be especially outrageous with Japan. They can stack Workshop culture with Electronics Factory culture and smash into the late-game civics without even many Theatre Squares, and their coastal start bias mean their Maus city could well be their capital...
(Australia have this advantage also, but may not build enough IZs given their appeal focus. Certainly I tend to want to use Work Ethic-enhanced Holy Sites as surrogate IZs that add rather than remove appeal...)
Finally someone speaks up for Jebel Barkal! The extra iron is really good in culture games as well since you can get this wonder quite early and trade the iron for gold. 6 iron a turn is quite a lot. The iron trading usually falls off quickly but it's kinda like free diplo points.
It's also ludicrously synergistic with Mali, and it arrives at a good time for them - right after their bonuses start being actual bonuses rather than penalties.
Mausoleum of Halicarnassus is also good for a late Culture victory because that one tick of culture on shallow water tiles is enough for seasteads to start generating tourism regardless of them being next to a reef. Also, Biosphere once helped me make a national park out of a bunch of smelly marsh tiles. For that screenshot alone, it's my fav.
Golden gate bridge is not just for national parks. If you think about it its amazing for a resort heavy city.
-Your city will be coastal anyway, like you said.
-+4 appeal stacks amazingly with resorts, their gold output is centered around it and their tourism equals their gold output.
- +100% to that tourism, so you're doubling all that tourism from those resorts.
It's easily a wonder that can add 50+ tourism with just 3 resorts.
-Baseline resort needs to be charming I think but say its breathtaking. So +4 Tourism.
Add 4 appeal, that's 8 tourism.
Double that, 16 tourism. A single tile gives you 16 tourism. Not bad.
And if you have any other appeal modifiers, and have like 5 resorts. You're pushing into the hundreds. Golden gate be tripling the tourism of any resort city.
Hard to build though, I will agree on that.
that is very valid criticism, and i think i'm very jaded when it comes to the difficulty to place it which is why i ranked it so low, but those are great points
I think GGB is a fabulous wonder, it's just impossible to build. But when you can it's crazy good. I got it in a one city challenge game with something like 6 national parks once, and it was basically making like 300 tourism/turn.
It's definitely worth downgrading for how likely it is that you plain don't build it - it's a one-win-condition wonder that you can't even rely on building in that one win condition, but is absolutely outrageous when you do. It's basically cultural Amongus-Scott, isn't it?
@@shinydavidhowell Yeah you could make that comparison, but it really only benefits one city. But regardless, I certainly don't think it's F tier, probably C or high D with how much better it can be than some of those other wonders in those tiers
Yeah you pretty much have to put Amundsen-Scott in the same territory as Golden Gate - either both are F-tier or neither are. (I might honestly lean towards "both are" but considering just how hard they can both accelerate the ending I may be wrong?)
Worrior monks are good for one thing and one thing only: they can be easily form into corps. Some religion/ cultural games when you don't build a lot of units this can cut down some of the unit building time to boost the civic.
Cords? You mean corps?
@@chaseoliver3978 yeah, typo sorry
I use them for the garrison amenity policy card whenever I make them.
I used them for pillage aa they have promotion that makes them invisible
Biosphere is also insanely good for culture victories as kongo or brazil, giving appeal to jungle tiles helps you make more national parks
My favorite order to tackle this wonder list is by era, then the context of the earlier wonders is present as you get into later wonders.
2:30 this is a misunderstanding that I had for a long time. However, the placement requirement and the bonus is PER CITY. Hence, the placement of the Amundsen-Scott city doesn't affect other cities, but those other cities need to be in snowy regions to get the double yields.
yeah that was just me mispeaking but you are correct~!
also is this the platypus haha
Great video as always, thank you. I find that Venetian Arsenal can stack really well with Alexander's unique building. You can spam out boats with the right policy cards, even kill them immediately if you can't afford them, and reap loads of science.
Maybe the real wonders are the friends we made along the way.
"Only he who constructs the Kilwa Kisiwani as Pericles-Greece understands true yields."
- Sun Tzu
Hah! Kilwa is also outrageous in the hands of Tamar when her kit comes together. Kilwa/Georgia rivals Colosseum/Scotland for "S-tier wonder for anyone/meme-tier civ without that wonder"
My gripe with Machu Picchu is that it can't be sped up by china. I got around this with a mod that lets chinas builders speed up adjacent wonders, as apposed to wonder tiles the builder is directly on top of.
I think I rate extra policy card slots more highly, but otherwise I think I mainly agree with most of these. What I love about Civ is we all have our quirks in how we play and what we find important so I really enjoy a well explained tier list. I always come away with something new to think about, so thanks!
Just a case that happened to me recently. I was playing with Cristina of Sweden and I built the Apadana then I spent most turns in may main city making wonders and just when I got build the Oxford University I got the achievement of making 7 wonders in the main city the Apadana is in. A surprise to be sure, but a welcomed one.
Pyramids is almost ungettable for me on deity. literally have to start with stone to get the eureka to masonry and have a desert tile near my capital. The games I do get it I feel like I've completely tanked my game....like hey look turn 60 and I have 2 or 3 cities and no districts. I love the effects, but I couldn't put it in S because what you give up early to get it makes me cringe.
It’s not even worth it imo. You can get the extra builder charge from liang, for far less investment and you’re guaranteed to get it if you decide you want it. Then a bit later you can plug in the feudalism builder card for +2 build charges. That’s 6 charges, right at the time when you’re going to want to be spamming them more, and 5 charge builders for any new city you settle via ancestral halls.
At that point the +1 charge from pyramids is just not that much extra compared to what you need to sacrifice in the super early game to get it. I’m pretty sure for the same production you could have built a campus AND a settler / it’s just not worth it that early game.
Eiffel tower not being in the same tier as Christo Redentor is a crime. Boosting appeal by 2 increases national parks tourism output by 8 and, when paired with cristo, seaside resorts have increased tourism by 4 and gold by 2. Not to mention it also increases tourism by ski resorts on mountains.
And also preserves and earth goddess also work really well with it.
It's in the tier of Big Tall building
I'd put Forbidden City as an S tier. It's my second most prioritized wonder after Kilwa.
It's incredible how the AI bumrushes Machu Picchu when two elite wonders are directly after Engineering and they don't rush those 😂
Worth noting if you are using the secret society vampires, Chichan Nza becomes a lot better. It makes an amazing vampire castle if you can get 3-4 surrounding it rainforest tiles surrounding it
S Tier Petra on a single dessert tile city. 😔👌
Jokes aside, i agree with your tier list, since i got a grip of the game, i never go for Stonehenge, better prepare for Kilwa, Colosseum, and Oracle. And i think, i just built that Golden Gate once, to make a city look pretty.
mau is so good. every win condition i want i still think "right, i need coastal city for my mausoleum"
BOES! Just letting you know I love your work and your personality. I just discovered you recently when I picked up CIV. Binge watching a ton of your videos has helped me greatly as I’m going through some really tough times. Been trying to catch a stream but it’s super hard with work, keep up the great work my dude!
i'm glad youv'e been enjoying it!!
Conversely, I think that the Great Engineer charge on Maus is massively _overrated_ and that you're missing out if you don't get at least some yields out of it.
I pulled up my recent victories not long ago to did a quick scan of how many Great Engineers I actually earned, and when. The results were a little underwhelming! Culture and Religious victories generally involved earning 0 or 1, and Science and Dom games usually involved a small handful, many of whom came so late that victory was already well in hand. If you happen to get Imhotep, yeah, absolutely knock it out regardless of victory condition, it's basically free then. But if the main benefit is an extra charge of Filippo and Eiffel, you're effectively paying 400 early game production to get 800 late game production -- pretty dubious in isolation.
It by no means is a bad wonder, but like Colosseum, I feel like its value stems in part from the fact that the AI doesn't like to build it, giving you a lot of leisure in when and where to plop it down.
A lot depends on which Great Engineers you have. As you say, extra Filippo / Eiffel charges are basically worth a few hundred extra production; an extra Da Vinci charge, conversely, is worth a bunch of culture per turn from midgame onwards; other second-charge bonuses can be much worse.
Of course, Scotland's kit means that Maus is truly epic for them, and if you're _against_ them you're pretty much only building Maus for the yield and to deny them it?
I personally love it because I'm a bit slow on my Science victories so just stalling until I get the Space Race Engi and instantly getting Sattelite to Exoplanet in 4 turns is pretty funny
St.Basil seems a bit situational to put in A tier. Taj Mahal could also go down a tier; there are so many ways to earn era score past mid-game that it's usually overkill. I find Etemenanki iffy, it incentivizes preserving floodplains but then where do I place districts, on hills? Idk, maybe I just don't know how to utilize it's early-game powerspike, but then it does cost a lot of resources in the first place to get. Otherwise I mostly agree with your list.
edit: Oh, and I have to add, I honestly don't see why Oracle is so highly rated. Deity AI likes to spam project so much that it doesn't really do much. I just don't think it's worth the tempo loss of building a wonder early in the game.
Colossus closed captions being like "it's a sea tier wonder" aaaaaahahaha nice one
I think you are on the right track with a Deity Tier. The Deity AI rushes early wonders except for TOA so hard that they usually aren't worth going for.
Yeah some of them are just unbearable to go for, like you CAN get great bath if you try super hard but its generally not worth going for
And of course you're just inviting early rushes with those wonders. Heck, even in the even multiplayer starts I've had a game where someone rushed the Great Bath when spawning next to my teammate who went with Montezuma - those sick yields were Aztec yields by the start of the classical era lol
I like Venetian. Halves the production or naval units. Extremely useful if you primarily have coastal cities for defense and having a dominant naval presence.
Pyramids give an extra charge to existing builders too similar to what Mausoleum does to engineers. It could be a good idea to delay using the last charge on a builder if pyramids is coming up pretty soon.
Gorgo gets +1 combat strength for every military card equipped, not slots in government. In other words, military cards in wildcard slots give that bonus too.
The only ones I majorly disagree with are Statue of Liberty and Orthodontist or however you spell it. Diplomatic Victories are super easy and underrated IMO. You just get like 10-15 points through easy guesses and competitions, burn all your diplo favor in one world congress to get +3-5 points, then build the statue of liberty to instantly win before the AI realizes they need to stop you. Sure, it's only useful for one victory condition, but it's IMO the easiest one to get and will always be the most important wonder for it. Easily at least A tier, but I would even argue S tier because of how laughably easy Diplo victories are with it.
Honestly that is a very fair assessment and it shows my bias against diplo victories in general - which should definitely bump it up a bit
Half the time I build terracotta is just to level up my spies so they stop dying 😂
Victoria: You tread on dangerous waters in the face of England and her loyal colonies.
Player: Ha! I have Venetian Arsenal. What are you gonna do about it?
Pyramids, Colosseum, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, Ruhr Valley, and Venetian Arsenal are the wonders I really try for. I never thought the end game wonders were very good, but now that the end game takes a lot longer than it used to, before all the future tech/ civics additions, I may have to rethink my stance on late game wonders
Kind of a shame to see my favorite wonder (Alhambra) ranked so low, but I can understand your logic. I definitely have an affinity for free policy slots and I'm probably overrating the military slot, but Alhambra is still one of those wonders I always try to have in my game cause I love having all the extra policies and also It's just so pretty :D
I would argue that it's C or even B tier but maybe on Prince it just fits my playstyle better? Or maybe I just think it's cool idk
I like Alhambra too - policy slots are always great. And I'm surprised he didn't value the 2 Amenities more given how important they are now. But on Deity I find that the AI grabs it kind of early, so it's harder to get than some others. I struggle with getting it because I don't tend to build early Encampments.
I agree. For me any Wonder that gives extra policies is minimum C tier. And Alhambra gives amenities as well which is a great bonus. Its better than some of the Wonders in C here imo
I’m guessing most of your games end up going into the late game, and your victories end up with the Augustus Ceasar ranking (2500+)
If so, it’s refreshing to know there’s someone else out there who enjoys brutally long games 👏
Honestly, Orszaghaz is excellent for a domination victory. If you're getting diplo punished by the AI bc you've already wiped a couple civs, that extra diplo favor can keep unwanted emergencies off your back, or it at the very least keeps you still at least a little relevant in world congress, which might be the difference between a dom win and loss.
I think Golden Gate should be D tier, just because you can spam city-state or civ improvements that provide tourism and get a killer tourism city reasonably often with it, especially if you plan to do so fairly far in advance. Most of the time I get it I can turn the city into a good tourism city using it, the problem is just finding somewhere to build it.
Good list, I do like to build a Petra city if I see a desert natural wonder tho. Petra makes those tiles great, fast. Plus the and AI usually wont snipe you on it if you wait around a bit
TSL huge map Australia, Uluru smack bang in the middle surrounded by desert, plus Austrlias outback station make it broken tbh
I have to disagree with putting the Golden Gate Bridge in F tier. If you have a city with a National Park and and you're going for a tourism victory, and the city can build the Golden Gate Bridge, I think it's clearly worth it. If it's not in a city with a National Park, it's not worth it. But I think that it's useful just often enough to be a D tier wonder. I love doing tourism victory games, so I choose that path quite often, and there are times when I do build this wonder because it is useful.
I think this is better than the D tier Meenakshi temple which I wouldn't build even if I was going for a religious victory.
Yeah I think a year later I would probably rank it differently - meenakshi is probably one of the worse ones out of the bunch for sure
The biggest thing about the Oracle is that you can faith-buy every great person 25% cheaper, not just heroes. That's really game-changing as it can save you thousands of faith.
eiffel C tier? how do i fight someone through a computer screen?
One thing you didn’t mention about Machu pichu is good because you can build it on a mountain so it doesn’t take up a tile. I would put it in C tier. Also I find that deity AI doesn’t push it as often, but that’s just anecdotal, sometimes it’s gone crazy fast
Seaside resorts become insanely good w/ Golden Gate Bridge, extra 4 gold and 4 tourism from each resort. Do agree on Colosseum, I need to build it more lol, still great video, your insight is super interesting.
the venetian arsenal is definitely only good in specific circumstances, but there was one game where i was playing as germany, was in the atomic era and noticed that no-one had built it yet; managed to crank it out in like 12 turns, then used it to make like 6 u-boat armadas. granted i didn't really use them for anything but it was still fun to have
Jebel and Apadana are some wonders that I've been sleeping on, I will give them a try in my next game.
That's a lot of wonderful tiers
i always thought ankor wat was more of a playing wide wonder as the bonus applies to more cities
The extra tier should be called “an unmet player has built” tier
Good list from my experience playing on Deity. Your S tiers are all the pretty much objectively correct choices.
I would argue that Oracle should be in S tier with the others though, it’s impact on a game is pretty much irreplaceable.
Generally you gave a lot of credit to the wonders that give additional slots, except Alhambra for some reason? I don’t really understand Alhambras low placement. That extra military slot can be so impactful. Oftentimes if you’re constantly warmongering you’re going to want some combination of (and apologies as I don’t know the card names off the top of my head) the Raid, Unit Maintenance reduction, 50% off Resource/Gold upgrade cost, 50% extra unit production cost, and potentially others like the extra accumulation of strategic resources and that extra policy slot is SO valuable. I know you can time things and constantly change out your government cards but a lot of the ones I mentioned you don’t really ever want to take out if you can avoid it.
Great Library also is maybe too low. The sheer amount of value it generates over the course of a science game in its great scientist points + boosts goes a long way to chipping off those valuable turns leading into and after researching the Spaceport. I understand that you gave it a small penalty because it’s hard to get on Deity, but when Stonehenge can make S tier despite it also being very difficult to make, it feels too harsh.
As for wonders that are maybe too high, Huey Teocalli feels like a prime candidate. While theoretically it can be a very good wonder to get, those potential amenities gains are real,it’s super situational and has a lot of factors going against it. You need to have a city on a prime lake position, to justify making it you would likely need at least 4+ adjacent lake tiles so it needs to be a sizeable one as well. Generally building a city on a lake never feels great, you can get the harbour but you lose out on access to the ocean for trade routes and coastal resources, with pretty much no gains to make up for it. It’s also in a weird spot on the tech tree where it isn’t too deep it but it sucks to prioritize because it leads nowhere of value very quickly when you would much rather be going top tree most of the time. Also I swear it’s built just as quickly as something like macchu picchu in my games but maybe that’s just me.
Good video overall, thanks boes 👍
Good list, only real disagreement is with The Estadio. It only gets a bad rap in your eyes because you are too good at the game and win too fast!
hahahah yeah that's why i try to explain that this is mostly coming from someone who tries to win before some of these even come on line
its a great wonder, especially if you're planning for around 250 turns or more!
The only thing I disagree with is Forbidden City. In my opinion it is the single most versatile and effective wonder in the game. It makes every single victory condition one policy slot easier, and we know how insane of a difference a single policy card can make.
Eiffel tower in c is a crime. C for crime.
I'm replying to this amazing video a whole year later to defend Petra's honor! You can also prio Petra in John Curtin games because you can build Outback Stations in Desert tiles as well as sometimes being lucky enough to spike a Lamb tile on Desert for some pretty sweet Pastures. Final verdict - B tier :)
Gotta say, I love how standardized the tier list is. Always bothered me when someone made a tier, and half the stuff is S or A tier
Lovin the content Mr. Boes.
Obviously, Civ 6 is VERY different from Civ 5, which I played a lot in Immortal. But it's so interesting to see what's changed from one game to the other. I remember Alhambra being one of the best wonders and seeing it like this is kinda sad.
50:40 Incan Petra cities with Cahokia mounds are utter insanity
Talking about the Mahabodhi Temple - it also gives 2 diplo victory points. So if you need to, you can more easily pivot to a diplomatic victory type later on
Great tier list. Couple of comments:
I've tried to build Mahabodhi Temple to finish off my religion three times now, but I find it surprisingly hard to place because of the best place for holy sites and campuses is between your city and mountains, and I either haven't had woods in the 4-5 cities I have when I need to found the religion, or I would have needed to put it on a +3/4 campus site.
The Mausoleum is yield porn if you're running a coastal city with the Lingu and aquaculture/fishing boats. Like a lot of wonders (Chichen, etc.), it just depends on having the right city for it. In the same vein I wouldn't compare Petra to a grassland city because there are lots of times when you want/need a desert city, and Petra can turn a marginal city into a powerhouse.
I agree with Colossieum being S tier but I wanted to point out the culture aspect which is very powerful. First, having automatic +2 culture per turn in starting cities, without a monument, is huge for tile acquisition. I'm guessing, but a city starting with +2 culture passive, should be able to capture 4 tiles in like 18 turns, multiplied by 4ish, and that's crazy. The second point, is it's a great platform a culture play since you are required to build an entertainment complex + wonder, which means a theatre district gets an immediate +4, which is a nice compound to the investment.
Generally, I aim for Colossieum in my 2nd city, with a good water mill. That nails the construction eureka chain and helps develop production for the district and wonder. I try to buy the arena as well. it's a pretty stream-lined play that works for a lot of scenarios.
To be fair, certain types of CIVs, and situations may change which wonders make sense to build. For Amanitore, and John Curtin, a Petra/desert capital could really kick ass….St. Basil’s Cathedral/tundra with Russia or Canada is another one if you’re into tile resource porn.
IF Jebel Barkal could be built on any Hill, it would at least be A-tier for me; however, because of it's Desert Hill restriction, B-tier is a great choice. Great Wonder, just hard to build it if you don't have a Desert start
Production cost of Pyramids: 3 Legions, 1 battering ram.
Terracotta Army has one effect that is not so obvious and can be usefull. It gives a promotion also to all your spies, including those that already have the max. number of 3 promotions. They get a fourth one.
So many wonders i didn't realize all their potentials
I have the same S Tier list but with all these descriptions, i thought to build a giga empire with science and production modifiers for a fast Space victory (all wonders with science modifier and all wonders with production modifiers)
I actually got a pretty darn good golden gate bridge in my last portugal game 🤣🤣🤣
I've actually managed to get Stonehenge on deity at least once, maybe twice. The production value is rarely worth it compared to other wonders you could be chasing early game. The first time I built Stonehenge on deity, something didn't feel right. I checked the difficulty and sure enough my settings weren't saved and I was actually playing on Prince.
Mahabodi is also A-tier because of the 2 Diplomatic victory points. Those are hard to come by early game. My diplo games often start out building harbors and holy sites to get mahabodi and statue of liberty. Having a religion is generally good in case of religious emergencies too.
I think Casa del Contratacion is pretty strong if combined with a gold economy or even with an empire strongly built upon faith - the 3 additional governor points allow to unlock the ability to buy new districts with gold or faith with ease. This will help new cities to grow fastly and have soon a good impact.
The Dido synergy is pretty sick too. Run Move Capital on a new continent to finish just before Casa, plug in Colonial Taxes, enjoy being Mali with actual production.
This combo allowed me to basically out-Portugal Portugal with her in a multiplayer game where the other best player in the group was playing as them. Had almost as much gold, far more rounded yields, and smashed out space projects in my Pingala/Ruhr Valley OG capital.
Situational notes for Babylon: Great Library is absolutely phenomenal for Babylon. Great Scientist generation is also in general great.
Terracotta Army is great for the meme strat of going for Ambush Spec Ops as Babylon.
Good job... no complaints.
By the way you should do a unique unit tier list, or unique improvements, I haven’t seen anyone make one of those yet.
Petra is fun in Heroes and Legends, if you can plan in advance, to use Maui to plonk down extra resources on the desert tiles before you even claim them with your desert city...
The Great Lighthouse should add 1 movement to embarked units too imo
Though I have not experimented with it (and probably never will), I'd put Machu Picchu in F tier.
Campus and holy districts already have mountain adjacency bonuses, and are often more important than commercial hubs. Also, the alchemical society and tithe belief can give you a lot of gold based off science and faith respectively.
The other time you build Petra is when Nazca is in the game. Stonehenge is honestly awful though, saying as someone rarely plays on Deity. If you're hoping to play religion you will need to build Holy Sites and will get your Prophet eventually anyway. The production is 10x better spent on an early holy site + shrine.
Alhambra at D tier huh. At its worst this wonder reads (+1 movement to all your units in your territory). I agree it is the worst of the Policy card wonders but I still feel this is a B or C
Agreed on your Petra take. Its biggest problem imo is the sheer cost to build it. 400 production is a ton for a desert city that can't grow. You're either looking at a worthless city that takes 50+ turns to build Petra and finally get going. Or you need to reroute your trade routes, 'waste' builder charges on subpar mines, etc.; all to get Petra out in a reasonable amount of turns... which is usually still longer than wonders in non-desert cities *without* all the investment. Investment you could have used to make already good cities even better.
It's still fun to build because of the yield porn and at least the AI doesn't really care about it. But unless you're playing as Mali or Nubia, it's more a late game "I'm already winning, I'm bored, let's do dumb stuff" wonder than anything else.
Every wonder is good if use right some don't even have any real cost to building them
Eiffel tower C? That kinda surprised me. Anyways, great video
I build the Apadana all of the time because the AI is too allergic to it and +2 culture ain't that bad on my theater district
As for favorite wonder, Petra is always awesome but gettinf Pyramids up is almost euphoric for me
You should make a video series out of this: best wonders for each victory condition. Do the same thing for leaders.
Theres such a huge range of weird niche wonders in the C and D tiers that there should be at least 2 more tiers between them, imo.
What makes Ruhr Valley A tier and not S? I’m just curious, I thought for space race projects it was ridiculously strong, like to the point of maybe being the strongest wonder for that victory type
Well done sir. While I dont agree with them all, you made a few points I hadnt considered before and will have some things to try now. Thanks
Venetian Arsenal is not above S tier? What is this blasphemy that I am seeing?!
make it double ship purchased by gold/faith too and it will be an instant A tier
Any wonder that gives a policy slot is automatically minimum C tier. Especially when chichen itza is somehow there at C tier. Alhambra is definitely better than that since it can help your whole empire. Maybe its veterancy when you've got lots of harbors, craftsmen for IZ adjacency, integrated space cell etc. Far more potential utility.
Hah! I suck at this game but managed to get Etemenanki on Deity. Maybe it’s only possible using Hammurabi, but it does not belong in an “ungettable” tier. I strung together eurekas and got Eremenanki and Hanging Gardens by something like turn 35. Maybe a bit later but I was pretty proud given the difficulty setting and my general ineptitude. Hammurabi is not to be trifled with.
Venice Arsenal at the end of C, funny.......
I never knew that about Jebel! I thought it was a flat +4! I'd only ever use it because Japan needs samurai and theres no iron on the damn continent, but now this is something I can put into that 1 random desert tile in the center of my people's land!