Ranking the Top Chaos Space Marine Detachments in 10th Edition 40k | Pariah Nexus Tier List
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- #warhammer40k #chaosspacemarines #tabletopsimulator
What's a TH-cam channel without doing a good old fashioned Warhammer 40k Tier List?! Today I'll be ranking each & every of the Chaos Space Marine Legions / Detachments to see which ones have the most play for the new Pariah Nexus meta we're finding ourselves in.
While I'd argue pretty much every Legion is at the very least usable with our new 10th Edition Codex, it's time to settle once & for all who's the best & who's the worst. With the new mission packs there's even more strategy involved with completing secondaries / actions so it'll be fun to see what ends up pulling ahead in the Warhammer 40k tournament & competitive scene going forward.
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Whether you're going to RTT's / GT's or Majors & mainly play competitively, or you just want to have some fun with the friends with some casual garagehammer, at the very least this Chaos Space Marine tier list should give you an idea of what fun combos or tactics you can use with each detachment
I'll be covering each & every Legion & any fun combos / enhancements / strategems they have access to. This'll include: Soulforged Warpack, Veterans of the Long War, Chaos Cults, Fellhammer Siege Host, Dread Talons, Deceptors & of course, Renegade Raiders.
Will there be any surprises? Find out yourself!
What's beautiful about our new book is just how many GREAT options we have access to. With *EIGHT* different detachments to pick from there's something for everybody. Add on top our amazing unit profiles & we're really cooking
Are you a Daemon Engine fanatic like myself? Soulforged Warpack. Maybe you like to roleplay as a space pirate from time to time? Renegade Raiders (Red Corsairs). Perhaps you're all about Warhammer 40k's excellent lore? Pactbound Zealots (Word Bearers) it is! Do you like the plodding destruction? Fellhammer Siege Host (Iron Warriors)! On & on it goes with barely any duds in the entire codex.
This channel is all about spreading info on how to improve at 40k so don't hesitate to reach out with any questions you have along the way. If you think I missed a good unit or combo, let us know!
We've already grown far beyond what I thought would ever be possible but I'm hoping to expand further as we go along. Whether it's 40k Battle Report's, going over some of the background lore for Horus Heresy / Warhammer, tier lists, strategy guides or tactics etc, I'd love to be on the same level as Auspex Tactics or Tabletop Titans one day.
Checkout some of my backlog for more info on Chaos tactics as well as general tactics, 40k strategy & new player guides as well
#40k #warhammer
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
02:03 Fellhammer Siege-Host (Iron Warriors)
05:57 Veterans of the Long War (Black Legion)
09:48 Deceptors
14:25 Chaos Cults
19:48 Soulforged Warpack
26:25 Dread Talons (Night Lords)
31:37 Renegade Raiders (Red Corsairs)
37:02 Pactbound Zealots (Word Bearers)
41:49 Final Rankings
42:30 Recap & Outro
Appreciate you guys!! - เกม
Hey guys! It's finally time to do the "final rankings" to see which Legions I think will do the best in Pariah Nexus. With the new emphasis in actions & mission play, I think there's certain aspects to some of these Legions that will set them ahead of the rest. That said I'd love to hear YOUR guys' opinions on how you'd rank each detachment
If you disagree with some of my own rankings, feel free to let me know
I hope you guys enjoy the video & as always, thanks for watching!
Love your positivity mate! If you only watched these videos you’d think csm had a 100% win rate 😅.. keep up the good work!
Thank you brother! That's one of the better comments I've gotten lol, for sure I'm like.. Blinded by love or whatever but screw it, CSM is awesome! 😜
lol great comment
made a Fellhammer list.
made to play for fun with my friends :D
Termi Lord with Bastion plate, Goes with 5 Termies
Termi Sorcerer with Iron Artifice, its ranged weapons got Devastating wounds, goes with 5 Termies
Haarkan with 5 Raptors
Jump Lord with Ironbound goes with 5 Raptor.
Fabules Bill, goes with 5 Chosen
2 x 5 Warptalons
Vindicator
Predator Annihilator
Land Raider for one of the Termi teams
and a unit of Legionaries to get to about 2k pts.
You had me at Terminator Sorcerer & Fabulous Bill
The loss of exalted champs was a huge blow to my thunder warrior khorne chosen chaos army…..all those dev wound combiweapon hitting on 3’s while the additional master of executions was granting rerolls…it was so good
Just wanted to say ur by far my fav youtuber for wh40k lists and info (esp chaos ;D) and you make me super excited to get back into 40k and use my csm guys again!
'Daw, appreciate your comment friend 😊 I can't tell you how awesome it is to hear I can help get others as excited about 40k as I am so yeah man, right in the feels thank you for the kind words
@@fatarchon thank you mate it just makes the game more accessible seeing so much info in a fun format with tips etc. You literally got me into a good build with 10th a year ago and its been great. Would love you to do some fun build idea videos and theories with your enthusiasm. Seems like it would be easy content as its in your head already hahah but it would be very fun. 99% of us all play casually id say so fun is often times rule of cool beats anything 😂
Havocs with all Heavy Bolters are one of the most powerful units that have a lot of options and combos to their kit
So in Pactbound Zealots them as Tzeentch gets a lot of benefits. Because the 5+ for Lethals and Sustains. And with them also being Tzeentch they will also gain the benefits of heal and bring back a model.
Especially when combined with Veterans of the long war to ignore cover from Let the Galaxy Burn and the Terminator Sorcerer for +1 AP. (Low key I think Terminator Sorcerer is honestly one of the best solo characters in the CSM line because each turn he can make one unit perform much better than what it really should.) AP-2 that feels like AP-3 .
Renegade Raiders is pretty clear with Assault and +1 AP on objectives
That's a not a bad combo at all! Heavy Bolter Predators are sorta on a similar level too, run them Tzeentch & they become pseudo anti-everything; especially infantry w/their built-in +1AP but even vehicles will take some decent damage
Gotta love all the different combos / options we get with CSM
In the current Meta you are underrating them. While other Detachments do give extra offensive punch, CSM have never had trouble delivering punch. What they have is durability issues. They are the original glass cannons. I can assure you that my vehicles which deliver damage and provide board control have had enormous profit from this detachment, allowing my other units to deal with objectives and act under the umbrella of protection gained by so much more effort being directed at my heavy hitters. Most games are won or lost in the first two turns. Fellhammer Siege-Host makes sure that you get your points back+ with you heavy hitters in this period and strongly influence when/where you opponent can move across the board.
21:45 be careful with thousand sons and their doombolts - they can doombolt the warpsmith despite lone op as long as they have LoS
That's a very very good point. Part of the reason Tsons are so exceptionally strong right now & even when they warn you before the game it's easy to forget. Gotta play totally differently vs them, at least with castles
Your Chanel ist my favorite 40k chanel in recent time. Keep Up your good Work.
Oh daaamn, thank you brother! I'm going to brag to my friends about you comment later lmao
I'd say the IW detachment is a gateway detachment for getting into CSM and for better understanding how CSM work and still being resilient.
Fights First for Black Legion is only against their focus of hatred, which means you focued something in your turn, didn't kill it and and then they go for
revenge
True! You'd still just target their main melee threat, whoever's setup for the charge or the sort. But yes it does have some restrictions so you're still totally right
I didn't elucidate it in the video (like I should've!) but the Focus of Hatred restrictions are why they're "only" A tier & not any higher. Not only the detachment rule but a lot of their enhancements / strats only work with that
"Abaddon is a World Bearer at heart" - Heresy! :-P
Dope channel name
I think Both Abaddon and Terminators can work well in Veterans of the long war detachment. It’s sort of like Guilliman’s choose a second oath of moment, where if their are more than one key models that you really need getting rid of, you might be able to wipe them both in a single turn.
I find myself fully agreeing with your rankings placement of the detachments. Can’t wait to try some of these out against my friends!
I really love the fact that there are so many subfactions and they're all at least playable. It even covers the ife cycle" of a cult.
Like, I wanna starst a crusade game with 1k worth of mostly Cultists to represent the early formation, going the Sneaky subfaction to represent early infiltration before growing to 2k to run a solid infantry focuaed detatchment and eventually going something like Tanks or Daemon Engines to represent the faction reaching peak resources.
@McFatson That's like... One of the coolest ~Crusade ideas of heard from anyone! You should definitely consider that hah
Chaos Cults just swept a GT & went 6-0 the other day running exactly the kinda list I was brainstorming (oodles & oodles of infantry) so they might indeed be sneaky good. Granted you'd need a ridiculous collection but hey who doesn't want an endless pile of shame?!
But yeah I agree, there's not really a dud in the book. Even the less powerful ones still win on fluff
Soulforged Warppack: I just recently had a game where I had a Demon Land Raider, a Defiler and a Forgefiend all boosted with Temting Addendum, Vashtorr & a Helbrute and combined I only managed to shoot and kill a singe Haruspex and then slightly wound another when they were both out in the open... I REALLY hope that that feels more powerful the next time around. hehe
Oh man that's brutal, sometimes the Dice God's giveth & sometimes they taketh lol
Vashtorr + Forgefiend is such a good combo that yeah, I'm surprised they fell so flat. Then again I remember once I shot a dude's Obliterators & he rolled something like 5 ones & immediately quit the game from how bad it was 😜
@@fatarchon ouch... what made that game even worse: 1. I had placed a venomcrawler up close behind all of them, within 6" of most of them above, plus within 6" of some cultists as well, which he took out with Haruspex shooting which then naturally exploded... 2. I then promptly charged the defiler into the surviviin Haruspex, and even with all the buffs I could give it in melee, it survived with 1 wound left... That hapened at least 2 more times with Haruspexes in that game and one of them even managed to take 0 wounds in a while extra turn in close combat with a Maulerfiend...
5 ones is painful... :-( ouch. The worst I've ever rolled was in the old 1'st ed Warhammer Fantasy RPG though. 3 100's in a row. Don't ask how my character proptly died...
@runeh3022 oof! In your defense Haruspex's are one of the tougher profiles Tyranids bring but damn man that's a rough game lol. Those Deadly Demise's will bite you in the ass especially with Soulforged. But just watch, next match the tables will turn & you'll be like, Dark Pact'ing left & right hah
I love the fact that when you roll enough dice you'll see some of the most outlandish & unimaginably rare results eventually. For sure I've seen like six+ 6's & that sort of thing (same with poker, used to be big on that & seeing your first straight flush is unforgettable)
The scout enhancement for the Cultist mob does work with Dark Comune, the “Bearer” refers to the unit the enhancement is put on, not the specific model in the unit
I guess where it gets weird is that Cultist Brand is written so it works on the whole unit. But I still get what you're saying, the "bearer" = the whole unit. They could write it a bit better but yeah I see the logic there!
Another great video! The more I think about it the more I disagree that the Fellhammer Siege Host fits the Iron Warriors, they are not just a stand there and shot army. Packbound and Veterans of the Long War fit them best I think. Vastorr on the other hand fits into Fellhammer exceedingly well! Just my opinion.
Great work, my guy :)
Thank ya Paw! Appreciate ya man
Loving the work ethic churning so much quality content FA! Which detachment you reckon would be beginner friendly and still pretty competitive? As someone new to 10th ed and CSM, pact bound is lovely so far!
It's funny man, looking back at some of the vids I originally used to make I can't even watch them hah. I used to just use my cellphone, then I used a crappy headset mic that sounded like garbage / didn't edit anything - so I appreciate you not thinking the quality sucks on what I'm doing now 😜 Anywho, for learning CSM, my vote goes to Veterans of the Long War. They have the full range of powerful Strategems, their detachment rule works in *any* match up (+ is powerful) & they'll work with multiple styles of list so you're not having to build a specific combo or whatever
Aside from them... Pactbound is definitely a good option but we had that the entire Index hah
Really aside from Cults they're pretty much all usable though so if you're drawn to a particular legion don't be afraid to give them a try too
@@fatarchon We all gotta start from somewhere FA. Your dedication and effort really shows. Thanks for the recommendation, will definitely try VOTW soon.
I am contractually oblitgated to play chaos cults. I've begged for a lost and the damned option so I MUST rep them and push them to their limit.
Why they didn't give us even just a single squad of allied Astra Militarum to run as Traitors will always break my heart
@@fatarchon they should have included an allies option for guard limited by how many traitor guard units you take. 1 unit of traitors = 1 tank you can ally. Or HWTs or sentinels etc.
Veterans are better. +6 inch charge is game changer. With Lucius, 2 units have first fight and it's the only way to counter warp talons spam
How are you getting that charge?
chaos cult is actually good. Like literally very good.
Lol yeah funny how that all worked out. I recorded this before they were winning all their tournaments, obv I wasn't the only person to think they might be one of the best (even tho they're still ranked so low in the end 😜)
Great vid again. I was wondering if you could explain the turn 1 deepstrikr with warp fueled thrusters for dreadtalon? Did you mean deploy em turn 1 and then pick em up again?
I also played my first game with dread talons few days ago, one of the mind games I tried was bringing Huron and not declaring any deepstrikes. Then deploying my 10 man raptors, 2x5 warptalons on the line, baiting out the deployment. 1 msu raptor squad deployed behind obscuring. After deploy, pick up the big raptor squad, 2x5 warp talons and put em in reserves. Now I think about it i should have had the 10 man in cover with warp fueled thrusters and pick em up at the end of the opponents turn, that way the 5 man can be picked up with Huron. Long story short, won 62-31 vs Tau by turn 3, but my deepstrikers did nothing but come in turn 3 and score cleanse. We drew delayed reserves, and i rolled 1 2 2 in turn 2 for my deepstrikers, big F haha.
Hell yeah man, congrats on the win! Tau are pretty hardcore sometimes but it looks like you gave them a whooping 😜For Warp Fuelled Thrusters, yeah basically just deploy them on the board &, if your opponent goes first, pick em up & drop em wherever T1 (if it'll score it whatever, otherwise you can keep them on the table ofc!). Daemons have a strategem to do the same & it can be extremely useful for scoring the harder secondaries from the get go
Congrats again, I love seeing Huron get some good play too!
Been really enjoying your videos, thanks for making them! I've only had the chance to play one game so far and went Iron Warriors. Ended up playing against Custodes so it was not ideal 😂 Renegade Raiders next and I've picked up a Terminator Sorcerer and some Raptors after you mentioned them once or twice. Will be running the raptors as MSU, what is your ideal loadout for them? Thanks again
Lmao no lie I lit up when I saw the you mention Terminator Sorcerer & Raptors, they're sooooo good & they'd be esp fantastic for learning the army (deepstrike & then just good movement to practice scoring)
For Raptors, I almost always do power fist on the sarge then x2 Melta. Preferably you'd magnetize them so you can run them as Warp Talons too tho 😜 I have all 20 of mine that way mwhaha (it's not for everyone tho so don't sweat it). I mainly use them for scoring but those Melta shots come in clutch sometimes!
@@fatarchon Anything that helps buff my Venomcrawlers gets me interested so I didn't need too much of a push towards the Termie Sorcerer! Thanks for the advice 😊
Deceptor. Shroud your termi sorcerer. Then, soul link his ability. Beast mode. Huron is auto include
See last part on how pact rule should had been. If you look at the detachments, they can all be any mark as it does not add any benefit to them. Thus being Undivided as these legions are suppose to be as they do not follow a specific marked god. In fact they can be all Khorne and still get the basic benefit of sustain or lethal. WB or any pact bound legion are forced to pick specific marks to get a marked boost. This does not fit into the lore of WB at all as they are perhaps the most Undivided of all the legions worshiping equally as zealots. However I do get the idea that they get an extra bonus by praying to one of the gods. How the rule should have been is as follows. Dark pacts: if a unit is led by an HQ the Dark Pact is 5+. Strats: undivided strats can be used by any unit. Any unit led by an HQ can choose any Strat. Enhancements must be used by an HQ with the corresponding mark.
The scouts enhancement for cultists detachment might not work on dark apostle either in that case because of the dark disciples.
Oh whoa, that's a great point. What's silly is that enhancement specifically calls out Dark Apostle so maybe it needs an FAQ?
More than once, I've seen the comment that Fellhammer is potentially awesome, this is just not the meta for it, currently. I take that to mean we are moving towards a more melee focused *competitive* meta. IdK. I think it's a matter of playstyle. A lot of people are "go fast, shoot, charge and repeat". And Fellhammer isn't necessarily the detachment to help you do that. I took both Tai Chi and Aikido martial arts and I discovered I am far more of a run forward and hit you in the face type!! 😅
Great overview! You can really picture the overall possibilities of the codex.
Oh Sellers, you & your rationality! Tsk tsk :P Nah Fellhammer is most definitely a hard one to rank. They have the obvious downsides but then I genuinely do think that extra resilience *might* just play a key role on Pariah Nexus. Only time will tell but yeah, I get why they're so "controversial" (at least we can all agree they're better than Cults)
Tbh they're the only one I could see really moving around, otw I'm pretty confident in the others. I suppose Deceptors can crash & burn if you goof up the deployment but then they can also curb stomp someone who can't deal with the massive infils
Either way I'm stoked Pariah Nexus is here. 'Bout time the meta had a (small) shake up
I fully agree with your take on the current meta and agree still that fellhammer dont help you gat ont the face of player and reck them yet i do think the main rule offer a lot of unoticed benefice CSM by essence excelle in mele by there datasheet/character and even batteline and where fellhammer hype me is by the greater control of how youre engament goes,
with added tougness and by a smaller mean the -2 to charge roll i do think you get to handle well most situation, by the grace of the holy rhino ( best unit XD ) our hit hard but die fast CSM can mostly negate the impact of super killy mele stuff,if the enemy dont kill the rhion ( with can by difficult with fellhammer rules put it virually T12 ) sure 6 meganobs will obliterate a rhino but the legio inside will have a field day your turn breaking open the green boys ect and even still if you got caught some of the strat may infliect a small price for killing you guys.i played it quite often now and the MSU style list with some shooty option and a lot of small mele treath seems to work really fine in term of killing power and in term of scoring.
my apologies if reading mze bored you but i still think it got strengh even against mele centrics and hopes to have defended my point
This is where I am cursing the American financial meta we are in because I have to work an extra 15-20 hours a week. I haven't been able to play Fellhammer yet. I imagine that part of the fun of it is your opponent thinking they've used a big enough hammer to crack your unit, only to find out its still standing and possibly hitting back harder than it seems like it should! The only passive buff you get is protection from shooting, so I am seeing Fellhammer as needing it's strategems pretty badly. Farming is going to help A LOT here, I think, so Fellhammer may be a good place for Abaddon. And with the synergy with the Terminator Brick, that's bound to get expensive. So if you are indeed going to spring for both of those, the rest of the army needs to be as cheap as possible.
Tossing Abaddon in isn't a bad idea, a lot of folks are trying to jam in as much damage as (in)humanly possible & he'd be one of the quickest routes. I agree him with Termies would get damn spendy but if they're able to tank an entire army's shooting maybe it's worth it? Luckily we do have a plethora of fairly cheap options to fill the rest of the list with at least
@fatarchon Hi! I’ve seen most peoples rankings on obliterators and rn everyone saids they suck. Should I get a box of them or should I go for a vindicator tank? My night lord army needs more ranged firepower.
Hey Goofy! There always the golden rule of collecting: get what *you* think is cool / you like 😜 The meta constantly changes every few months so before you know it they might rock again hah. That said from a competitive pov: yeah the Vindicator is way better, by a lot. Oblits are probably cheap on Ebay whereas the vindi can be hard to get sometimes
Just a note: auto 6" advance strat in Renegade Raiders is for transports and mounted only, so can't apply it to warp talons...there's a wee drawback for you😂
Dangit! Ya that one was off the cuff so I didn't have my notes. Oh well, at least my Lord Disco can make use of it 😜
Good looking out
A little deceptors combo I've been doing,
Take a Sorc in Terminator armor with soul link leading a squad of 10 terminators. Take a sorcerer with shroud of obfuscation to sit on a back objective and not get shot.
Soul link copies the sorcerer for -1 to hit as an awesome center board brick.
Not bad at all! Especially considering you can still blank the damage IF they ever cleared the Termies (... Doubtful)
Soul Link is such a homerun for all the different combos you can pull off. I've been trying to think of ways to buff up an Abaddon + MoE combo, Sorcerer is probably a good route to take. Or even Jump Lord for a 6" pile in / consolidate
Im new and this is my first list ive made. Im making an ironwarriors army with fellhammer.
Abaddon
Termi Chaos lord
Termi Sorcerer
Warpsmith
10 legionnaires
2×10 terminator squad
Helbrute
Chaos Rhino
Predator Annihilator
Vindicators
With Enhancement its 1995 or any suggestions?
Not a bad start brother! Especially now that you're learning, legit just run whatever & as you see what each unit does you'll find out what changes work best for YOU. That said if you want me to give you a 'competitive critique', that fits my own playstyle, I think I'd drop at least one of the Termies squads down to a 5man & maybe drop the Warpsmith. With those 255pt I'd bring a bunch of fast moving scoring. So Raptors, Bikes or Warp Talons. Basically just give yourself a tidbit more mission play
That said overall it's a fine list even as is. That'd be hard af to chew through if I were your opponent hah
@fatarchon hmm I was actually thinking the same thing. Would venomcrawlers and a cultist mob work? Or would something like raptors or talons just be better for objectives?
Hmm, if you drop all 3 of those I think you could fit in a Venomcrawler, Cultist *&* Raptors which might be the route I'd go
Finding a way to sneak in Warp Talons would be super strong too tho so even if you go that route I'd bet you'd be fine. But yeah personally I'd lean the scoring route myself!
@fatarchon this is the list I think I like
Termi Sorcerer 90 warptracer 110
Termi Chaos lord 95 bastion plate 105
Abbadon 295
10 legionnaires 160
10 terminator squad 370
5 terminator 185
Helbrute 130
Chaos Rhino 75
Vindicator 170
Predator Annihilator 130
10 Warptalons 220
2000
na man, you rank the raiders to high. Pactbound is the S Tier Detachment followed by Soulforge and then Raiders.
Ohoo, I was hoping someone would drop on with that take!! I was very much CONSIDERING putting Renegades behind them but in the end *personally* I stand by it - even though I love Soulforged more than anything hah. There's no downsides to their detachment rule whereas the others have at least a small drawback (from failing Pacts, mainly)
I would be curious why you think that if you feel like sharing though? Genuinely curious! Pactbound is crazy good so I could see the final WR%'s going their way eventually
Good lord I thought we left the fake high energy voice behind in the 2010's.
Aw you think I'm high energy? Thank you bub 😘 believe it or not 100% genuine lmao
"Your guys's" is not the correct way to say it. It's "Guys"
Your guys'? A 3sec Google search says otherwise :shrug: But feel free to just consider it a local dialect if that helps 😜