Private Cloud Gaming - Comparing Parsec and Moonlight
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ค. 2022
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I've done a number of videos on Cloud Gaming Servers, but I've never talked about the software I use to actually play games on them. Today we're going to go over Parsec, Moonlight and Sunshine game streaming services to see which one is right for your setup.
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Parsec Game Streaming Host + Client: parsec.app
Moonlight Streaming Client: moonlight-stream.org/
Sunshine Game Streaming Service: github.com/SunshineStream/Sun...
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Sometimes setting up a server for cloud gaming is more fun than the actual gaming
Keyword being sometimes
totally ... especially if it is some lame game
Exactly 💯
Also 100% true for retro arcade machine building.
lmfao, that's true
I've been looking into the exact thing after remembering the existence of your previous private cloud gaming videos. I know for sure that this is gonna be a good video. Thanks for this one!
My gaming pc is 2000 km from me.. I have 100 mb\s internet connection here and an average laptop. I use Moonlight and ZeroTier One(for creating local network). Works almost perfect. 1440p 60fps 80mbit bitrate. Also i choose a h265 codec. Image qaulity is good, it hard to see a difference, feels like i play directly on my pc. There is a little imput lag ofcourse, but i don't play competitive online shooters, so it doesn't matter for me.
Been waiting for a good video on this subject. Thank you.
I’ve been using Parsec for a few years now. As long I have a good internet connection on the client side I can play games w/ no issues. I use it more for Remote Desktop. Being able to access my computer while away, which is five days a week, is great. The fact that it’s free is a bonus.
whats your connection like at home/client vs remote streaming on the receiving end?
Will have to test this out! Thanks, Jeff!
Thank you for this video. I have been a keen subscriber and follow your tutorials repeatedly. Having purchased several micro PCs for Proxmox clustering, I was hoping I could repurpose them for quad boxing Elite Dangerous and WoW. You did not disappoint.
Just last week I set up Moonlight and Zero Tier for remote access to my gaming PC… still working out some kinks…. Thanks for this great review!
Thanks for sharing! Going to give this a try for developing
Sunshine seems like a great option for paravirtualization, sending the hyper-v vm through a private virtual switch to moonlight on the host.
Oh wow, I started looking into it and this guy already made a video on it last year!
"Two Gamers, One GPU from your Windows PC! Hyper-V Paravirtualization Build and Tutorial"
@@Crybyte its pretty easy to start. The only difficulty I found was adding a certain GPU. I have two GPUs but cant select which GPU to add so I usually ends up adding the 3060 I have Instead of 3070. Latency is also an issue too which I hope to resolve
This looks VERY interesting for me. I could actually perhaps even start using this as a solution to play on my home desktop while on work trips and not worry anymore with having gaming capabilities on my laptop.
Been using Parsec for a few months now, but Moonlight looks interesing, gonna give it a spin. Thanks!
So helpful! Thank you!
I've been really enjoying Moonlight. I set it up a couple weeks ago. Playing Horizon Zero Dawn on Ultra on the Odin Pro feels like living in the future. ;-)
Good stuff!
How do you exit a game in moonlight? I still haven't figured this out.
I've used Moonlight for years with mixed results. I have back issues, so being able to play my PC whilst bedridden with back spasms is amazing, however your client device is incredibly important. Older or cheaper Android smartphones will struggle handling the WiFi connection for the stream AND the bluetooth connection for your controller and will cause increased latency and dropped frames in my experience. If you have a wired/direct-connect controller to use, or have a client with a more powerful wireless stack (or ideally a wired connection), you will have a much better experience.
The biggest issue I have with moonlight is on android when using remote desktop streaming, when I connect my keyboard and push a system key it brings up androids search function and not things like windows start menu, task manager, etc... Moonlight on android does not capture system keys, it really needs too.
moonlight works excellently well on iPhone as it rightfully uses the processor's power.
@@Dono0320 ouch
I also see a flaw. And that's using a keyboard on your client while mirror off your PC lol
@@Dono0320For the record I fixed this with Key Mapper app from Play store
You need a steam deck. Not only would it let you play them locally, but it's a perfect device for this too.
To those who wanna be extra save ... At least with moonlight I can say that it also works if you connect to your home via OpenVPN without a problem. That way you don't even need any portforwarding or sunshine (at least not if you have pfsense)
But open vpn is slow protocol, no?
@@meccu19 i didn't feel any noticeable problem .... Normally at home i stream at 1440p while remotely i only do 1080p and as long as you and the place you currently at have good internet speed it should work fine
I use wireguard, it is faster
Moonlight has an internet hosting tool bundled with it that checks forwarding and open ports… I don't remember if I had to open any ports for it.
@@meccu19 not necessarily, it depends on hw
Can’t wait to try this
I haven't used Parsec but I've used Moonlight so much to play on laptops around my house. Little to no latency if you have good wifi/wired. It was a life saver when I wanted to play RDR2 on my TV and it was a great experience. I always recommend it to friends who have Nvidia GPUs and want to play a game when they're not at their desktop
How did you connect working gamepad?
@@lakimakromedia Bluetooth/wired, needed to be xinput for it to have worked properly
What's RDR2 stand for?
@@condorX2 prob red dead redemption 2
@@mrmotomoto 😎👍
Moonlight and Sunshine looks like a nice option. I use a more jankier option of setting up a vpn, between my LG V60 and my gaming computer, and then I use a game sir X2 controller with the LG V60 dual screen case, to run Steam in home streaming through the vpn. Latency is a lot higher that way versus these methods though.
Interesting choice.
What's your overall experience?
Do you miss keyboard and mouse?
Solid video and some good tid-bits in here. I have an issue with Parsec liking to sign out after some idle time. I am curious if moonlight/sunshine has that issue. I would suspect not. Also the increased visual performance for a minor latency hit COULD be beneficial for games that are more reliant on their "cinematic" qualities. But games that have shooter mechanics even IF they are single player can really suffer from every little spec of added latency.
Definitely when having to compromise between image quality and latency, I would prioritize latency any day. After watching this video I think Parsec is the best option.
Hey Craft! Just found your channel and this video was very enlightening on parsec vs moonlight/sunshine. Given Nvidia Gamestream will be shut down in feb 2023, and also given that it is by far the best implementation of remote play services in terms of latency, encoding, etc. I'm curious about your thoughts on the future of private cloud gaming without Nvidia as the lead competitor. Do you think private cloud gaming will see performance improvements in the coming months or years that rival the best of Nvidia's gamestream?
This is really useful!
thanyou for this- comboing this vid with a Techno Tim I managed to get a low latency remote gaming VM (rtx 3050/5950x) going from Truenas Scale - works great! May look at putting my 3090 in there
I am really interested in seeing a sunshine/moonlight server setup on Linux hardware. I want my Manjaro gaming machine to stream to my home theater pc so we can play games as a family without a 900watt dragon in the living room. Great video! A tip of my Kootenay True Ale from Creston BC, Canada. :)
Been waiting for Zen4 to build a closet game rig. Can't wait. ( unraid vms)
Although.. maybe going 13th gen and using QVS may be more optimal?
It would be great to have a more objective roundup with some way to actually measure the latency to compare solutions. It would also be interesting to compare to things like gotomyPC or AnyDesk (which claims to be fast enough for video editing) to see if standard desktop sharing apps come anywhere near these solutions.
The comparisons have been made countless times by others. Those programs are not made with low latency remote operation in mind, and have never been adequate for gaming or other applications beyond some light remote work and tech support. Those other remote desktop programs seldom use GPU acceleration, which is one of the contributing factors to latency. Parsec and Moonlight+Sunshine are really the only two best free options for anything requiring low latency.
What I don't think is honest is simply using Cyberpunk 2077 as a test case for Moonlight, as the way Moonlight relies on a GPU's framebuffer to stream could lead to issues like the client not being able to render a game's stream. Moonlight has and always be hit or miss, as in (on Windows at least), you will always encounter some software that will either not stream through Moonlight unless you're streaming the entire desktop, and you could run into issues where enabling Vsync in a game causes the client to render frames at half the refresh rate, effectively halving your framerate and introducing visual stuttering in the process.
I'd like to point out that if you use pfsense you may need to do some hybrid rules/port forwarding to get parsec to work outside of your local network.
While this is waaaaay outside my area of expertise, I’m very interested to give this a go 🥰😇👍
awesome video!
I have been a Linux user for a while now, so I have never used Moonlight even though it was one of the reasons I bought a GTX 1060 a few years ago (I switched completely to Linux just a bit after). I am excited to try Sunshine though on my Arch system and see how it goes streaming to my PS Vita. Maybe that will help me get by until I can purchase my Steam Deck...
You missed a Moonlight client, though I am not surprised since it isn't listed on their website. The Nintendo Switch! I have it on mine and it works great for streaming away from home using a VPN hotspot on my cell phone.
So apparently Unity, who owns Parsec, has announced a merger with IronSource (a company best known for monetisation and shipping actual malware). Unity are also looking towards greater monetisation of their applications.
This might be time foil hat territory, but I've been using Parsec for years. As of today I am going to seriously start looking into switching over to Moonlight and Sunshine.
Rainway is good too, guys. Check them out. They are setup similarly to Parsec, totally free. They have a webclient but you have to stream from a Windows machine.
@@efahrenholz1 rainway gaming is not dead ?
🤓
This comment aged like fine wine
@FranklySean Good find 🤣
I like your hat.
On the back of my head, I'm wondering what you're trying to hide xD
Interesting video.
What's your overall experience?
Do you miss keyboard and mouse?
Thanks for the video.
Does Moonlight and Sunshine work with the host PC using AMD GPU.
With a rx 6600xt and r5 3600 pc using parsec and h. 265 encoding I get about 11ms total latency! (1.5ms decode, 3ms encode and 6-7ms network) Works great for in home streaming
That's kinda incredible, actually.
any tips for budget high refreshrate portable device as moonlight clients?
He never mentioned it, but Rainway is also a great solution. They have a webclient but require a Windows machine as the host.
Note to self: check how to configure the VPS I use to tunnel my home server to the open Internet via Wireguard to also connect to my home computer in order to use it as a cloud gaming machine
If I only want to stream games to different systems does it make sense to use a full VM like this or does using AMD/Steam Link just make more sense? Would performance be similar?
Does Moonlight support sensure pressure? Nice video! Would be also interesting to compare them to SuperDisplay.
Is it best to run the ether net from my cloud server to my router than from my router to my laptop or directly from cloud server to laptop ? If the second what device needs a second ether net card for internet ? I need to reach about 250 ft from server to laptop. I would like more distance. Any pointer thought's ?
I can't get moonlight and sunshine to work. I was able to input the pin and add connect moonlight on my Nvidia ShieldTV to my Sunshine host but when I try to launch a game in moonlight, I get an RTSP handshake error. Both devices are on the same vlan, I've disabled windows firewall.
Are you able to get this working well on TrueNAS SCALE? For me it is very laggy. It is actually a better experiences over RDP even with a Quardo P4000 passed through the virtual machine. I would just like to use Fusion 360 since it does not work on Linux.
Looking forward to the AMD setup!
I use a Raspberry Pi 3 to connect through parsec.
Works amazingly well.
Although the links to get parsec working on RPi3 are all broken.
It gives an old broken build 22, where as if u can get a link to the latest version its 47.
I have Parsec setup so it connects to my PC automatically almost as if its a games console :P.
Would be much better if Parsec would get updated to use a RPi4 so we could all get H265 decoding support.
Which would help reduce internet bandwidth and increase visual quality.
I've been using parsec and moonlight for the last year and a half and my personal experience is I don't recommend using it unless you have a wired connection or a fiber connection from your two machines. My original goal was to take my gaming machine and put it in my server rack so that way when needed I could stream VR or play games anywhere in my house.
Parsec has higher latency than moonlight throughout my testing and configuration. The parsec seems to have the most degradation picture quality. Parsec is better at remote desktop and playing games outside your home network.
Moonlight offers a better experience in terms of latency. However, some games will glitch out with random colors and does not support remote desktop natively. You can do some work arounds to fix this. Moonlight will not work remotely unless you VPN in which cause more latency.
Something else you need to consider is that if you want to use features such as h265 streaming encoder, you need a GPU on the remote end which supports this
Once you set everything up, everything should be working as expected but you will notice the occasional frame or loss and bit rate.
If you can live with the trade-offs of slight latency and degraded quality in high action scenes, even with a wired connection or fiber, then you won't be disappointed. But if you require the low latency and like to see high quality images then I would not recommend remote streaming
I've been using Parsec since 2019 and Moonlight since 2020. My ISP doesn't give residential connections a static IP so I use Zerotier to connect over the web, Moonlight has lower latency and a better picture. Latency is very decent at about 50-60ms when I'm not on my local network. It's good enough to play fortnite and win gunfights. Apex is way too sweaty for double latency though.
We appreciate your guys feedback. Now I know not to even try this in the LR wo running an ethenet cable in there
Moonlight was great until Nvidia stopped support for nvidia because Sunshine only works with my local home network and doesn't work with any other network or my cellular data vs Parsec which so far works perfectly with my Data and my Local Network so Parsec is taking the win for me atm
The frame rate seemed awfully low on that Cyberpunk….is that the game streaming or is that your host PC? Thanks and great content. I’m am truly inspired to try this.
Steam installed on both the cloud PC and the client PC works in both Linux and Windoze on either or both sides. Latency is awesome. I've even added non-steam apps and streamed those ( VMware workstation pro for one )
No additional 3rd party VPN or server requirements beyond the steam servers.
Both services work amazing but Sunshine doesn't let you stream at a different aspect ratio. The only way you can do that is by manually changing your resolution or setting up a virtual monitor and manually changing it to your main display everytime you decide you wanna stream.
running moonlight at 120hz also improves latency. Even if your on a 60hz device.
I do love Parsec, but am very interested in not having to rely on them... The Sunshine / Moonlight combo is definitely worth a look for me, then!
Interesting combo.
What's your overall experience?
Do you miss keyboard and mouse?
Not worth it at all sunshine does not work unless you are using your local networth don't know why your trying to make your life harder by trying to use moonlight but you do you
Parsec worked great when I was playing Tekken 5 DR (RPCS3) with former friends and the latency was almost non-existent, be aware this game is pure framedata and we weren't bothered by the minor pixel artifact caused by the encoding, luckily I have a 1080ti and both were using fiber so any lag was due to extra processing on my part and they never felt any of it, my biggest issue with this is that I can't use it on android and pair a physical keyboard and mouse to attempt remote play without it triggering android interface, this is the only problem with remote play on android with either bluetooth or physical devices, it needs to capture them and ignore the android interface completely for it to be working like a laptop.
I know it's a year old comment but it's still relevant now that I want to play warzone DMZ on my job without having to buy a super cheap laptop just to make my 5G data pack sweating.
wrong, port forwarding works @@spikytoaster
Is it possibile to play on a headless Host with sunshine/moonlight? That option is available on Parsec which I've been using.
I've tried Moonlight/Sunshine in the past, but I could never get it working with my Razor Kishi controller so I've basically stuck with Steam's Remote Play.
in parsec you can see the stats at top bar when you press the parsec button
Three things:
1) This was where your cloud gaming server were running with your M60 and M40( i.e. vGPU) vs. using the Hyper V GPU-P method, correct?
2) Using your Hyper V GPU-P method, Sunshine couldn't pick up on my RTX A2000 (because the Hyper V VM display connects to the Microsoft Basic Video Adapter, which doesn't support desktop cloning, and so, Sunshine couldn't "latch" onto it.
3) I saw that there is a Moonlight host option. Any thoughts on how well that works (or doesn't work)?
Thank you.
I tried parsec but it couldn’t support the 3024 x 1964 XDR resolution of my 14 inch MacBook Pro. I’m blown away by the performance and display of moonlight! I’m using wifi on my mb pro and Ethernet on my gaming pc and it performs so good!
Gonna try sunshine had trouble with parsec and autocad
when doing Sunshine to Moonlight, it does not detect my controller (second machine moonlight to moonlight it does seem to work)
I thought parsec didn't work on the RPI4? Has there been changes since I've last seen anything.
Hosting on MacOS is also possible with Parsec and it's usable, if not on par with Windows hosting.
Moonlight is better than parsec IMO. It has a Linux version so that's a big plus.
Parsec also has a linux version as well
Linux parsec has been buggy for me
Assuming you've had a Redhook ESB, how would you compare the Old Standby?
I can't seem to get rid of micro stuttering in Moonlight streaming. Steam Link has no issue but I can't play non-steam games on my phone with phone controller. Any idea how to fix Micro stuttering in Moonlight?
Do you also run into the issue with Parsec where in Halo Infinite, it doesn't register when you are clicking the left-mouse-button (which is the default button) to fire your gun?
How do they compare with good old RDP when all of the RemoteFX optimizations are enabled?
FYI in parsec you can increase the bitrate to get a better image.
Moonlight can do that too
I have seen some videos about remote video editing via Parsec, but havent't found anything about doing this with Moonlight. Has anyone tried this? Specifically 4K video editing in Premiere Pro. Happy with the expereience?
Is this better than using the steam link app to connect to your pc from anywhere?
Can't we just do the same thing if we connect our games up to the stream option in Steam?
Well thank you
moonlight if you're going to stream on mobile for sure
I have some questions:
1. How can I set switching off monitor when moonlight is streaming?
2. Can I shutdown PC remotly by moonlight? I know I could do it with start menu on desktop mode but its take some times...
Im sorry, where did you get that Defiant wallpaper? I must have it.
i was just about to try to set up vnc with proxmox
So I'm about to build a system for this very purpose. The question is, do I use Proxmox for my hypervisor and then virtualize Windows and TrueNAS Scale. Or do I skip Proxmox and just virtualize Windows in TrueNAS Scale?
If you want GPU support, use Proxmox as your host. The vGPU unlock script doesn't work with TrueNAS Scale.
@@CraftComputing excellent!! Thank you for great video!
I wonder if a lower latency networking phy would help with the frame latency, something like fiber or Direct Attach Copper biaxial cable? Or is it mostly based on how quickly the server can encode the video for streaming?
The use of DAC vs fiber vs Ethernet isn't going to make a measurable difference in latency - those latency differences are nanosecond scale. The vast majority of the latency is going to come from the encode, transmit, receive, decode steps. Network routing and switching latency will only start to be measurable over wan connections.
@@twitchyarby Good to know, I always heard they were faster, I didn't realize the difference was so small
Parsec is such a good program
Still waiting for parsec linux hosting. Hopefully we get it one day!
how to use dualsense on moonlight? mine doesn't work
So this is how you get games working outside your house? Inside my house I just use the steam link app which sadly dose not support the select button.
If only there was a way to have your computer sleep when not using it that would make this perfect.
Did he sadly say at the end that this only works with Nvidia cuz if that's the reason I'm not using the Nvidia in home streaming. I have an AMD card (R9 390)
I use steamlink since some years at home and outside with no issue. To my opinion its the easiest one to use, its free and really fast, works on android/linux/windows, can t say about apple. The best i did is to use to use my friend s wheel G27 at his home using steamlink on a py3 linked to my desktop!
If u want it to work outside, u should set an exception on your firewall desktop computer and open the right ports on your router, dont forget to set the wake on lan and you good.
i have to say, moonlight is so so so good.
Its even that good that no matter what amd will be releasing, I gonna buy a nvidia graficscard since my experience with that compared to parsec and especially amd link.
Moonlight streaming works fine on AMD GPU's with Sunshine?
@@FoxyDrew pls tell me more about it. I wasnt able to use moonlight on my amd gpu. At least not as Host.
@@blackyraypatrick9041 you use sunshine, just like the video says.
How to remote play with sunshine stream?
moonlight is so good it should be a legit way of streaming steam deck to smart tvs
You can use Parsec over WireGuard, works better than you'd expect.
I use rainway it works in browser no client side installs required
Can you please do the linux version and compare the results with windows especially over internet? For me the experience has not been good because of latency and stutters. I've been trying to achieve the same quality of stream under Linux but windows + GeForce experience is still a lot better. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I dunno more. At home I have a 4k display + Arch + Sunshine + nvidia patched for NvFBC, client pc running moonlight under Linux
I can't seem to get Moonlight to stream to my android phone. When I do manage to get then the lag is insanely high.
for Moonlight.. is an NVIDIA GPU only required for the host PC? do the remote clients connecting into the host machine also need to have NVIDIA GPU's or just have the Moonlight app installed on thier PC/device?
Nope! Works with AMD and Intel as well
How connect Xbox controller to moonlight. Trying this long time without good result.
Is it possible to use consumer gpus to do this?
I'm doing this with my steam deck so I can play basically everything once I get it
Does Moonlight/Sunshine work the other way around? Like if I want to stream from Steam Deck to pc?
I have not tried it yet but it should at least in desktop mode
Good to know I don’t have to port forward for Parsec. And good thing a school down the street from me was throwing out a bunch of Dell OptiPlex 790 USFF’s with 2nd Gen core i3 CPU’s. I took some home with me and they all work great after I de-dusted them, replaced the thermal paste and installed Windows 10. I’ll take one to Florida with me so I can stream RDR2 from my main gaming rig.
SS+ML seems to be both the highest quality and lowest latency for me now, it's left Parsec in the dust. I have my SS+ML setup running piped over a self hosted VPN, That seems to work wonderfully. If I need something it can't provide, TightVNC does a perfect job of covering the rest of my use case. It's all firewalled off as well, only accessible via the aforementioned VPN, so I don't have to worry about the insecurity of VNC as the only way someone can prod at it is to have their own way to tunnel into the other side of my NAT.
SS+ML has developed and matured so well, so quickly. My only criticism is that I feel that SS needs an actual desktop UI, not just a web interface. The web interface can be nice if you have an actual use case for setting it to anything other than localhost, say, pairing a new device with no physical access, but when you're right there at the machine it just feels clunky compared to an actual desktop UI.
Parsec does not seem to be available for Apple TV?
PLEASE! How do I put this on the pi?
Awesome
Moonlight is a good choice.
can i use private vpn and run games when im outside of my house?
My son's PC is in his bedroom, what's the best option to allow him to play his PC games in another room in the same house on a fairly low-end PC? And will a game controller work on the client PC?
Late reply but I had way better performance on low end hardware using moonlight. And yes, the client pc can hook any controller and it will be "transmited" to the host from the client.
@@ivandksddo you know if steering wheels are supported?