If your blades are dull after passing through a deer (not counting hitting dirt) we have to wonder at what point in the animal did they get duller than we want. The main reason they’re after edge durability is so that this question doesn’t need to be asked. The importance of sharpness of our broadheads can’t be overstated. Angle of attack also matters in how effective they cut arteries and capillaries.
So I don't fully agree....back in 2009 and 2010...I was shooting the old school nap thunderhead fixed blades....I decided to do Sharpness tests....and I took a single broad head...and in those 2 seasons I used that one broad head to kill 6 deer 2 coyotes a bobcat and a woodchuck...no blade replacements...no sharpening....just washed em off and thru it back in the quiver.......never had a single problem and never could say without a benefit of a doubt that the first deer died faster or bled out faster then the last...and 100 percent woulda shot more deer with the same head using the same blades if I didn't switch to mechanicals for the 2011 season
Troy is spurring innovation. Now that there’s a light shining on this there’s going to be a mad push to capitalize on improving arrow systems. Big win for bow hunting.
I’ve been a traditional bow Hunter for over 50 years. I have found that 4 blade broadheads like the Bear Razorhead, Muzzy Phantom or Palmer Extreme Cut broadheads also provide complete pass through on whitetail deer and leave much better blood trails than any 2 blade head I’ve ever used. Just my experience. Great video!
It does not matter what weight arrow or type of head you shoot if you hit perfectly in the heart/lungs. What Troy is studying is an arrow set up for those not so perfect scenarios that 99% of us experience. Its funny I started bow hunting in the late 70's with those aluminum logs that averaged 600+ grains with the old Bear heads shaped like Troy is talking about. All shot out of compound bows that if you cracked 200fps it was FAST. Passthroughs were the norm even when hitting that ball joint in the shoulder. We have been progressively searching for "speed". It started with overdraws and moved to lighter carbon arrows. We used to shoot 25/30 yards max at deer and now we have people shooting 100+. We have lost what the intent of bow hunting is all about. Its supposed to be an intimate experience with nature topped with a visceral surge of adrenalin when you can count how many eyelashes the animal has. You DO NOT get that shooting at animals 40+ yards away. If that is your thing fine. But you are missing out. Thats why when people start talking about trajectory loss my eyes glaze over. I cant help but wonder why you dont gun hunt. Your odds of success are exponentially better at longer distance with a rifle. At that point its the kill that matters to you or you would let it walk for a better shot.
This is what I’ve been saying for years. I bowhunt not to see how far I can kill an animal, but how close I can kill an animal. And btw, I’m still shooting those “logs” you’re talking about. XX75 2514s. They’ve never failed me.
Bow hunting is about how close you can get, not how far you can shoot. It always has been, and always will be. If it’s not, they’re not a bow hunter. A vast majority of archers would be better served with spending more time improving their woodsmanship skills instead of distance shooting.
A 425-435 grain arrow ( W/ a 50 gr FACT up front, 340 Spine ) IS, PERFECT, even for Elk with, 3 Bladed, 100 gr. Sharp, Strikers / Montec's or, 125 Mangus, Blk Hornets ! I Use, 2.88" long, Swift VaneTec, Vanes or, 2.7" Stealth Max with, 3* of Helical and they "Fly",.. GREAT ! I will Be trying, the New, 3 Bladed, Grim Reaper in 125 gr., the Micro Hades, next ! I've got, a 16% FOC arrow and they Fly, Awesome !!! NO Heavy, "flying Log's" for, Me as, I Hunt, Longer Ranges, in the WEST ! You HAVE to, "Match" Arrow weight to, YOUR Bows, Poundage and, "Spine" your Arrows, Correctly !
There is a spot labeled by the Ranch Fairy, he calls the vital V. It is just above the top of the front leg, where a lot of people call the shoulder, which 4 legged animals don't have. The scapula is just above that.
This is by far the best information that is out there right now on arrows. No BS, just trial and error that these guys did for us to prove points. It's a long one but sit down and I bet we all could learn a thing or two.
The big cams on short ata bows allow for longer draw lengths. The larger cams allows more string to wrap around the cam. If they had small cams the string would be short and limit the draw length.
So, about the optional bleeder blades....I shoot iron will 200gr vented. With bleeders. I found that the oval hole for the bleeder, makes a fair amount of noise. I was shooting in my buddy's barn and could hear them very clearly. I pulled a bleeder blade and siliconed the slot shut.. and that noise reduced like 90%. I opted to pull all bleeder and seal holes shut.
Years ago Ted Nugent marketed a head made by Magnus. A two blade head with a "w" shaped cutout in the wide part of the blade. It made a whistling noise. Seems like it had a slot for a bleeder too, but I'm not sure if I remember that right. A whistling arrow I don't care for in hunting.
All arrows penetrate jell to the same depth, because it's all dominated by friction. Dynamic friction is *the same* regardless of speed. Hence the jell catches them up as soon as kinetic energy runs out, which will be pretty close on all arrows. While going through the animal, there is a *different* mechanism that slows the arrow down. It's hydrodynamic *drag* . Drag in fluids is proportional to the *square* of speed, so a slow arrow is *slowed down much less* . Two different types of friction. Jell is really not good, but it's not because it's too consistent. Consistency would be nice, as long as the primary mechanism that limited penetration would reflect the reality.
Learn the very easy art of paper tuning. This is far more important than the weight of your arrow. Make perfect arrow flight your number one priority before all else.
At the end of the day everyone has s a little different setup, what we all need to do is decide what is best for your own setup. Not by marketing scams, but by trying different setups ,ie bows broadhead a, arrows. And honestly, there’s plenty of other variations. But end of the day a BALANCE of everything combined would be the best bet I believe. Great job guys as usual keep it up!
I shot 560gr total arrow setup with a 200gr single bevel up front and flew great. My only concern was dropping after 40 yards. I’m going to rebuild my arrow setup this year and drop down to roughly 515-525gr and I think would be just right imo
@@guitarq359 depends on the person and the land you hunt. I have friends that have deer on the wall from 80 yards and an elk from 75. I’m not good enough at those distances but most of the people I hunt with can hold a 3 inch group at 60
40 yds is my limit on a perfect shot opportunity on the ground. Which never really happens in the woods - so it's kind of irrelevant to most in the midwest/east/SE. Out west if the wind wasn't blowing crazy 40 all day if he doesn't know I'm there.
Personally I think Troy bringing the Ashby report to a lot of people has created a lot of the debate. Its a trade off - weight versus speed = momentum. Super light and super fast with no penetration may have less arch but no penetration. Super heavy and extremely slow and the buck leaves the scene before the arrow arrives is just as useless. A 5mm Axis with 200 grains up front gives a 550 gr arrow - to me a happy balance with great penetration. Probably unnecessarily heavy for whitetails but good all rounder for me.
I shot a 575gr total arrow setup this past year with my v3x and a iron will 2 blade 200gr up front. The only issue i have with it is the damn arrow drop on it. Its nothing crazy but it's enough to want to add pins to your site cause 5 yards can be a difference maker. It was only 60lbs (had a 70lb cam thing on order but it tuned so damn good with 60 i didn't want to change it). Think I'll go up to 70 this year and maybe drop to a 150gr head. Just so much shit to think about. All for 1 shot lol
The scenario Troy describes where the under spined arrow flies point up would almost certainly be caused by a low nock point. Underspined arrows will tear nock left where as over spined arrows will tear nock right.
After the interview you said it would be hard to retrain your self to shoot the scapula, thats not what troy has ever said to do. shoot Vital V and and he says heavy setup is for plan B when you hit bones on accident your still fine.
Much greater chance of hitting liver and guts than the knuckle of the scapula which is why you’d shoot a giant rear deploying bh like sevr or killzone. Unless you like walking a lot of course.
The reason to have as much FOC as possible is for better arrow flight. Greater FOC results in a longer distance between the fulcrum(balance point) and the nock. This gives the arrow a longer lever arm which increases the effect of the fletching on the arrow.
Arrows with higher FOC also stay closer to the tangent of the arc throughout flight, meaning at impact it’s more likely to be perpendicular to the target surface which helps ensure penetration. Lighter arrows stay parallel to the ground throughout the arc which means they’re more likely to be off center and lose energy at impact.
I considered shooting a single bevel. You must shoot the deer twice to get the total cut that I shoot w my 4 blade fixed heads. I’ve shot many deer since ‘88 and have never had an issue and yes I punch em through the shoulder often.
I agree, great way to put it. It is interesting to see the obsession with penetration as the primary goal. As it seems to not be the most common issue.
You’re comparing four blade to two blade and that is apples to oranges. If you’re comparing single to double bevel thats a different discussion. Its only double the cut if you’re getting the same penetration and length of cut.
@h2tym that is if the 4 blade doesn't pass through as well. If both pass through (which they do the vast majority of the time) then you are cutting 2x the tissue. It also opens a more square hole in the hide, which is harder to close-up. One thing I like to bring up is that it isn't just about pass through or cut size. It's about what you "touch" or cut. With that extra blade perpendicular 90d then you might cut something that you would not have otherwise. I can't be the only one who was surprised on a shot that I immediately thought was bad to recover an animal. Then, upon investigation, I barely clipped a lung or something else lethal. That's why I like a decent cut size 3 or 4 blade.
I will say your bow is tremendously quieter when your arrows are heavier with wind in your favor sound traveling in your favor your going to see less jumping the string or at least at a delayed rate something to think about nobody’s going to believe me but my slowest bow switchback xt 699 grain arrow my truefire synapse is louder than the bow at 72lbs it’s either the tripper or the fletchings then hear it’s like 50/50 on jumping the string every scenario is different I’d say just try it what I did to shoot heavy and fast is bought a 85lb safari by Mathews 700 grain arrows come off at 271fps it’s devastating but I get harder string jumps cause the bow is louder
I was way under spined for years. I thought the "400" on my arrows were the weight in grains. Didn't really have anyone to teach me before discovering archery TH-cam. The last few years have seen a lot of positive changes.
When he said that people dont shoot hunting bows for target i tuned out. This past ASA there was several pro shooter's with hunting bows and several of them won. Accuracy kills, confidence kills.
Whitetail, for the most part will all be shot within 30 yards . The majority under 20. So, shoot whatever you want, shoot super light, super heavy, or in between. Practice constantly. You should be able to consistently hit a 1” target at 20. Whatever range you an consistently hit a 4” target…. Thats your effective range. Don’t shoot further than that.
I’d love to know what his definition of “accurate” would be cause I know plenty of guys that shoot a 29 very very well and shot 7 inch groups at 100 yards
Juat went from 434 to 510 and i movwd my sight before shooting mived it to 22 yards from 20 and i was high, put it back on 20 and was hitting in the same exact group with my 434's lol. Dont notice anything till i get past 40. Its a 26" rip tko 300 spine, 50grain titanium insert, 3 max hunters left helical, and a 200grain tuffhead single bevel now from a 125grain sevr also changed my nock think its a grain heavier. Inhad to pass up 2 deer this year because i had the serv up front and i dont like that feeling of being limited by my equipment, if im the reason thats one thing and when your the reason your limited you practice correct, well when its the equipment thats the reason why would you not change it? Most B&C's are under 25, if your shooting whitetails and 99% of your shots are under 25 yards i dont know why you would use a light arrow with a mechanical, yea when everything is perfect there f*cking amazing i know this but when shit dont go as planed and your mechanical blades break or the deer dont give you that perfect shot opportunity and you have to pass up that buck youve been after you can kick yourself in the ass. I know most of yall wont admit it but i know it happens as its happend to every simgle person i know personally but you get someone online thwy lie about everything because whos gonna check them. I dont give a shyt if you lie to me but dont lie to yourself to make you feel like your better than the next guy, thats lame af and you should probably fix this imaginary bada** mentality as ita not helping you at all. Confidence is one thing but internet only confidence is a dumb 😆
I'm going to build a 600+ grain setup this spring to test out and see how it works. Ohio puplic land I'm pretty much limited to 25 and under in the woods, sometimes I'm looking for more room because I don't like being so close because of arrow paradox and it's still flexing so you loss energy
Spend the extra money on broad heads in your first season hunting (125$ tuffhead). You won’t regret spending the money. Unless you lose them, sharpen them and use again.
Absolutely love the podcast. Mean this with all my heart but please move the on air sign. With it flashing it looks like your screaming on air all show lol.
The biggest advantage of speed over mass in my opinion is your margin of error on longer range shots. If you think an animal is at 45 yards and it's acutally 53 yards, a faster arrow with less drop in that range may still hit the animal compared to a heavier arrow that will drop more over that 8 extra yards. Heavier is better, but there's a balance there somewhere.
@@bigz5262 It's completely situational, species dependent & your ability. 45 yds on a whitetail? For me, most likely no. The situation that I would feel comfortable with it is really unlikely. It would have to be completely unaware, head over shoulder looking away at another deer/squirrel/animal making noise, little wind, perfect range, me standing on flat ground & not in a tree with all the time in the world. Exceedingly rare situation. 45 yards on an elk? All day if the conditions are right. They just don't move much on shot (especially bulls in the rut) and the vitals are significantly larger. Penetration has never been a problem for me - or my adult male family & friends with average setups & fixed heads. This is why most people out west have this opinion I completely understand now that I moved from Montana to Kentucky why people can't fathom longer shots. There just isn't the opportunity to shoot further than that in the woods (most of my shot opportunities are 20 & in) & whitetail are crack heads. The odds of me getting a 20 yard shot on an antelope is slim to none. Same with mule deer - possible but unlikely. I feel more comfortable with a 45 yd shot standing on the ground than a 25 yd shot on my weak side in a tree. Especially with all those little branches that are half impossible to see in the last hour of light. I practice and tune fixed broadheads out to 100 so that I can have my western range limited at 50 yards. My broadhead group at 50 on my knees twisted over weak side, with my heart rate elevated from running is what some can't do at 20. The biggest BS thing that RF says is that you'll never be Levi Morgan. It is silly - of course you probably can't! It doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to get as good as you possibly can. I am so surprised as to what I can do now shooting vs 8 years ago. Lastly, It is so common for mule deer/elk to get shot at 20 & bounce out to 70+ and stand there unknowing what happened. If my shot shot was lethal but not idea & I have the opportunity - I will absolutely take a follow up shot to put another hole in that bull at 70-100. I'd argue it is unethical not to. The problem with people is they can't understand their own ability. I had a friend last year who rarely shoots & doesn't know crap about tuning tell me he is comfortable at 80 on an elk. I told him he's so full of crap his eyes turned brown. This is the problem with TH-cam & influencers. They shouldn't put out bragging about long ranges (even if it's ethical for that shooter to do so) because all this people then think it is ethical.
@@chrismuhlbeier6948 I agree. If you can hit the center of the target at 50 yards on your 1st arrow on the range, then 45 yards is probably ethical. If you can't put a group of 3 arrows inside of 8" at 30 yards after you've warmed up, then no, it isn't. An ethical shot is based on an individual's ability and to some extent his equipment.
The idea behind shooting one of those set ups is not really to go through a bone like a the scapula it’s just gives us more room for error because if you shoot more forward a bit in front of the crease there’s more vitals but also that Chance of hitting heavy bone
@@randallthomas1538I mean all that really means is that you need to practice with your setup at both known and unknown distances; which you should already be doing
Lets see what I need... Fast arrow flight to be a little forgiving on range estimation errors Fast arrow to help avoid string jump / random movements flies well through the air to hit exactly where I want every time "flies" well through the meat to get great penetration and complete passthroughs even when I whack a couple big bones a head that is super sharp and completely indestructible a set up that is quiet Add to all the above affordable because I cant buy or test 50 different broadheads / arrows / bows I have no idea how I could ever kill anything with an arrow - yet somehow we do it - Perspective and balance
Okay so I’m desperately searching my mind for a dopey remark and it is not happening so I’m going have to just say thank you 🙏! Excellent post and hopefully my inner smart A$$ kicks back into gear soon!
Over and under spine. IMHO Overspine is a myth. If you're shooting normal 65-80 pounds there isn't enough spine to over spine. Going a couple spines up to to about the industry toughest spine of 200 isn't ging to show up on paper or walk back. I did it on both my 70 pound Hoyt Carbon Spyder turbo and my 80 pound PSE EVO EVL 32. Both I tuned with standard spine arrows off the Easton chart. The Hoyt a 400 and the PSE a 300. Now I shoot a 200 spine 5mm with a 50 grain half out and 150 grain head on a total 580 shaft . Both bullet hole, and walk back to 60 yards money ! Now talk underspine ? It's a flat out TRAIN WRECK ! Underspine matters, Overspine doesn't. I'm shooting over spine on 2 bows and they both are money. I came to understand this when Troy Ranch Fairy recommended me a 200 spine Sirius with a 100 grain half out and with my 150 grain head on my 80 pound bow, thought I was over spined ? Nope. So I backed out the half out and used a lite weight garbage insert, still a bullethole everything the same except a bit faster. Started researching overspine and found Podium Archer MFJJ and he was going over it, and made mention to it and showed it. So I tried it and was shocked.
the "spot" you are aiming at moves! What happens then when you make contact with a leg bone/scapula??? Accuracy is the only consideration in indoor archery where it doesn't matter what your arrow does after making impact.
Just my honest opinion, I feel we as bowhunters and hunters in general just simply need to stop talking down to and about other bowhunters and hunters. We ALL want to insure a quick and humane harvest, we ALL hunt for the tradition of it, for the meat, for the memories and bonds that come with hunting that you simply can't get anywhere else. If we don't stop fighting over gear, set up choices, etc and start standing together as one against those who are looking at taking our rights as hunters away then we won't even have hunting. Shoot, wear, etc what ever you have confidence in and what makes you feel like you have an edge and just enjoy hunting the way it is meant to be enjoyed. The constant arguing and unnecessary negative criticism and shade throwing seriously needs to stop(unless that person is genuinely being consistently unethical and or doing illegal things and in that case you probably should just report them to whatever states dnr that they reside in).
@@HUNTRPOD I've been getting two ads (one unskippable) every five minutes or so. I know TH-cam defaults to a high percentage of advertisements but for a longer video like this, that's just painful.
Just a thought if arrows are constantly flexing in flight how would anyone shoot a bullet hole. I'm not disagreeing with the therory but people including myself are getting bullet holes with properly splined arrow and I even get bullet holes with broadheads or I don't go hunting. Thank's guys for your podcast and interesting information. I believe a good well sharpened broadhead with good flight is the trick for success in clean human harvests. Technology has really made it more complicated which is a marketing dream. Safe hunting Thank you
It's hard to take advice from someone who doesn't deer hunt. I do enjoy listening to different ideas but I'd love for RF to shoot a 430 grain arrow with a machanical with a decently tunded bow. He preaches to prepare for plan b but in my experience a huge cut is just as good of a "plan B" as going through bone.
The major problem with expandables, given both arrows are bareshaft tuned is the extreme loss of energy resulting from the opening of the expandable broadhead. the faster they go the greater the energy loss to drag. Drag is equal to the square of the velocity. As speed increases the drag increases exponentially. Its basic physics, there is no room for debate. there is no scenario where an expandable penetrates more than a fixed blade given they the same arrow, point weight, and both are tuned correctly.
There is room for debate what is the percentage loss? Also where do you find a 1 1/8 inch rear deploying mechanical to test against a 1 1/8 inch fixed.
Just do what I did this year. I bought a 90# APA King Cobra DG and will be shooting a 29” arrow weighting approximately 980 grains around 247 fps with 22% foc. 🎉
@@austinhall5933 I’m still getting used to the bow and tuning, so I have around 50 arrows through it. But the Rampages are shooting fine. I need to do a little fine tuning for broadheads, but they shoot well. I have a 200 grain ethics ss insert/outsert on the front plus a 300 grain point. I’ve shot Simmons Great White fixed blades with a 50 grain adapter on it and it’s only slightly right of field points. That’s using a Bully fletch. When I get it tuned correctly, I’ll nock tune each arrow and refletch with DCA Super Sabre’s. With a wrap, fletch, and the epoxy I use, total arrow weight finished came out to 1010 grains.
Shot placement trumps arrow weight , speed , bow poundage, broadhead type etc etc etc! The 2nd most important factor is broadhead sharpness! Period! This a fact!
Didn’t Levi Morgan win an ASA championship with a hunting bow last year… I’d put my house up that he’d beat you with a 20” ATA bow and you can take a 50” ATA. Bow and Levi will beat you every time!
The 2 most ridiculous trends in deer hunting in the last 10 years are the 6.5 creedmoore and the heavy arrow bullshit.....back in the day bows where slowwww and arrows where heavy and thousands of deer died to them....then in the late 80s and early 90s the overdraw trend came and went...and oh. With over draw and we can shoot a short light arrow super fast....and thousands of deer died that way for years....now we got guys shotting heavy ass arrows again...but shooting 80 plus lbs to try to get a little more speed back....and yea deer are being killed.....but ya also got guys like me with my early 2000s over draw hoyt at 70lbs with a 29 1/4 inch draw shooting a arrow that's 24 1/4 inches long and roughly 347 grains...blowing threw 3 deer a season no problem
I think at this point we all have ranch princesses arrow opinion memorized. I made it 20 minutes and will have to check back next week. Hopefully someone less annoying
34:15 Learn to tune a damn bow. Simple, basic tuning methods can turn a 3" bare shaft tear into a perfect bullet hole. Period. End of discussion. Nock tuning is all well and good, but modern arrows are not so inconsistent that nock tuning has a major influence, nor should it be a go-to method of tuning. I shoot the cheapest Easton 6.5's you can buy. If I can get one to fly perfect, the rest do to.
I don’t know. I think you’re getting too deep. Kinetic energy is kinetic energy is kinetic energy. How do you actually measure that? You have to have consistent parameters to measure the variable. Doesn’t it make sense to use ballistic gel? Shooting animals, you’re always going to have a different angle, hitting different material ( one time bone one time not) its just not an accurate way to do it. You are trying to measure a variable with another variable.
I am not interested in sharpening broadheads constantly tbh. I would rather practice more and wait for shorter shots and better angles. I’m willing to live with a bad hit and or bad penetration once in a while. I like Troy but this whole process would completely drain the fun out of bow hunting for me. To each his own…
Wrong again. The reason shorter bows are less forgiving is because they are inherently more stable because of their overall length and sometimes slightly larger brace height. There is nothing wrong with a shorter bow for hunting. The accurracy of a bow mostly comes down to the shooter.
Best arrow set up is 450 grains with as big a 3 blade mechanical as you can shoot through both sides of a deer. Don't need an hour pod cast to figure that out. For you guys who like to shoot heavy logs go shoot a 3d unknown course and see how good you are.
@@paulwakefield1015 I'm 76 yrs old live in Michigan and have BS+ 30 degree form Western Michigan University. Have been bow hunting for over 40 yrs and killed a lot of deer with the 2315s. Just because you have a mic in front of you doest't make you a genius just saying.
More power to you if that setup works for you. However, comparing hunting to 3D is like comparing NASCAR to F1. They’re completely different scenarios that require different strategies.
@@guitarq359 Not really, done a lot of both and 3d is as close to hunting as it gets save the rush. I use the same set up for 3d as I do for hunting bowtec ss at 60 lbs victory 204 with 125 tip. The thing I change is nap spitefire and a lited nock. Can't hit a 3d deer at 30yds you won't kill many deer. there are two extremes lite arrows and heavy arrows neither are the best all around set up. Middle of the road works the best for the most. The fairy is at the heavy extreme and most guys I know shoot the middle weight stuff.
@@miltonreeths522 Sure you can use similar setups for both. My point is, with 3D it doesn’t matter if your arrow sticks in the target at a 45 degree angle - if the point is in the 12 ring, it’s a 12. I would not want to be shooting arrows at 45-degree angles towards animals.
Lol… short axle bow because its cool??? Nothing to do with coolness . Its all about mobility. If you can hit ping pongs balls at 30-40 your good and i do with my cp28.
We know RF drives a side by side into his hunting spot and sits in a well manicured fixed stand location over a feeder to hunt. Why would we even give a tinkers damn about his opinion on short bows. 😂
Everyone should be bareshaft tuning their arrows. too stiff is just as bad as too weak. You should start with a bareshaft arrow that is too long(weak) and cut it down a 1/4 inch at a time until it groups with the fletched shaft. These guys dont know what they are talking about Your arrow can definately be too stiff.
@@russelllangworthy8855 poor arrow flight is the result. The bare shaft will tend to impact to the left of your aim point or tear nock right when shot through paper. It’s worth the time to find the correct spine/arrow length/point weight combination.
With modern compound bow rests and trigger releases you can get away with using an arrow that is too stiff. If the bow is set up perfectly it will produce a bullet hole in paper at close range. However, accuracy will suffer at longer ranges(greater dispersion). It will definitely shoot better than a weak arrow. Also, most stiff arrows are heavier than weak arrows so going to stiff will decrease your FOC unnecessarily and result in slower speeds and a more arcing trajectory. If spine was not an issue arrow manufacturers would only make stiff arrows.
Don't even know what your shooting ??? 300's ?? No 350?? You must be Kidding !! "Your Killing me Smalls !" might need to take up a new sport, that you can keep track of
These guys have the right idea but they dont really know what they are talking about. The reason for having a 3 to 1 ratio broadhead shape(length to width) is because of the increased mechanical advantage.
@@paulwakefield1015 I don’t have any credentials as a physicist, just a well read archer with more than 40 years of hunting and competition experience. The comment about velocity and it’s relationship to drag is just basic physics. You don’t need a degree to know that, just do your research. Darrell is an expert in his field and I would never question his expertise on this. In fact I agree with everything he says that relates to the science. However, he is not an experienced archer. I also want to say that I think what the Ranch fairy and Darrel are doing as far as adult broadheads and the quest for perfect arrow flight is long overdue and we should all be listening. I only dispute some of the details. I completely support the work of the Ashby foundation and truly believe in the work they are doing. Thanks for being respectful. I’m sorry if I was not.
I tried to suffer through the ranch fairy talking, but he's a salesman, and I couldn't take the rest of this podcast. No shooter is the same, and everyone's setup is different. My wife can get a complete pass through with her "29-inch piece of crap" at 60# with both a fixed and mechanical blade (a 410-gram arrow). She also shoots 3D out to 111 yards and is accurate at long distances. We will continue to be the idiots shooting the 29-inch bows. He is correct that accuracy is most important, but comfort also plays a role in accuracy. If you are not comfortable with a 33- to 35-inch bow, then you won't be accurate either.
I always enjoy the thought provoking conversations with Troy and Daryl. Y'all did a nice job of asking good questions and guiding the conversation.
Thanks Larry
If your blades are dull after passing through a deer (not counting hitting dirt) we have to wonder at what point in the animal did they get duller than we want. The main reason they’re after edge durability is so that this question doesn’t need to be asked. The importance of sharpness of our broadheads can’t be overstated. Angle of attack also matters in how effective they cut arteries and capillaries.
So I don't fully agree....back in 2009 and 2010...I was shooting the old school nap thunderhead fixed blades....I decided to do Sharpness tests....and I took a single broad head...and in those 2 seasons I used that one broad head to kill 6 deer 2 coyotes a bobcat and a woodchuck...no blade replacements...no sharpening....just washed em off and thru it back in the quiver.......never had a single problem and never could say without a benefit of a doubt that the first deer died faster or bled out faster then the last...and 100 percent woulda shot more deer with the same head using the same blades if I didn't switch to mechanicals for the 2011 season
Troy is spurring innovation. Now that there’s a light shining on this there’s going to be a mad push to capitalize on improving arrow systems. Big win for bow hunting.
I’ve been a traditional bow Hunter for over 50 years. I have found that 4 blade broadheads like the Bear Razorhead, Muzzy Phantom or Palmer Extreme Cut broadheads also provide complete pass through on whitetail deer and leave much better blood trails than any 2 blade head I’ve ever used. Just my experience. Great video!
It does not matter what weight arrow or type of head you shoot if you hit perfectly in the heart/lungs. What Troy is studying is an arrow set up for those not so perfect scenarios that 99% of us experience. Its funny I started bow hunting in the late 70's with those aluminum logs that averaged 600+ grains with the old Bear heads shaped like Troy is talking about. All shot out of compound bows that if you cracked 200fps it was FAST. Passthroughs were the norm even when hitting that ball joint in the shoulder. We have been progressively searching for "speed". It started with overdraws and moved to lighter carbon arrows. We used to shoot 25/30 yards max at deer and now we have people shooting 100+. We have lost what the intent of bow hunting is all about. Its supposed to be an intimate experience with nature topped with a visceral surge of adrenalin when you can count how many eyelashes the animal has. You DO NOT get that shooting at animals 40+ yards away. If that is your thing fine. But you are missing out. Thats why when people start talking about trajectory loss my eyes glaze over. I cant help but wonder why you dont gun hunt. Your odds of success are exponentially better at longer distance with a rifle. At that point its the kill that matters to you or you would let it walk for a better shot.
This is what I’ve been saying for years. I bowhunt not to see how far I can kill an animal, but how close I can kill an animal. And btw, I’m still shooting those “logs” you’re talking about. XX75 2514s. They’ve never failed me.
Bow hunting is about how close you can get, not how far you can shoot. It always has been, and always will be. If it’s not, they’re not a bow hunter. A vast majority of archers would be better served with spending more time improving their woodsmanship skills instead of distance shooting.
Let’s add the whole back wall, back tension and tension release when 65% let off was a lot.
@@gsnicholas8522 well said!
Well said
I shoot a 425 grain arrow with a 3 blade fixed. It blows through deer no problem.
Same and since the late 90s its worked great for me..I always get a pass through also..
A 425-435 grain arrow ( W/ a 50 gr FACT up front, 340 Spine ) IS, PERFECT, even for Elk with, 3 Bladed, 100 gr. Sharp, Strikers / Montec's or, 125 Mangus, Blk Hornets !
I Use, 2.88" long, Swift VaneTec, Vanes or, 2.7" Stealth Max with, 3* of Helical and they "Fly",.. GREAT !
I will Be trying, the New, 3 Bladed, Grim Reaper in 125 gr., the Micro Hades, next ! I've got, a 16% FOC arrow and they Fly, Awesome !!!
NO Heavy, "flying Log's" for, Me as, I Hunt, Longer Ranges, in the WEST ! You HAVE to, "Match" Arrow weight to, YOUR Bows, Poundage and, "Spine" your Arrows, Correctly !
There is a spot labeled by the Ranch Fairy, he calls the vital V. It is just above the top of the front leg, where a lot of people call the shoulder, which 4 legged animals don't have. The scapula is just above that.
light GPI 300- 250 spine carbon arrows, STEEL inserts and broad heads, sub 550 for ballistics #money
This is by far the best information that is out there right now on arrows. No BS, just trial and error that these guys did for us to prove points. It's a long one but sit down and I bet we all could learn a thing or two.
The big cams on short ata bows allow for longer draw lengths. The larger cams allows more string to wrap around the cam. If they had small cams the string would be short and limit the draw length.
So, about the optional bleeder blades....I shoot iron will 200gr vented. With bleeders. I found that the oval hole for the bleeder, makes a fair amount of noise. I was shooting in my buddy's barn and could hear them very clearly. I pulled a bleeder blade and siliconed the slot shut.. and that noise reduced like 90%. I opted to pull all bleeder and seal holes shut.
Years ago Ted Nugent marketed a head made by Magnus. A two blade head with a "w" shaped cutout in the wide part of the blade. It made a whistling noise. Seems like it had a slot for a bleeder too, but I'm not sure if I remember that right. A whistling arrow I don't care for in hunting.
All arrows penetrate jell to the same depth, because it's all dominated by friction. Dynamic friction is *the same* regardless of speed. Hence the jell catches them up as soon as kinetic energy runs out, which will be pretty close on all arrows.
While going through the animal, there is a *different* mechanism that slows the arrow down. It's hydrodynamic *drag* . Drag in fluids is proportional to the *square* of speed, so a slow arrow is *slowed down much less* .
Two different types of friction.
Jell is really not good, but it's not because it's too consistent. Consistency would be nice, as long as the primary mechanism that limited penetration would reflect the reality.
What I don’t get is bare shaft tune, nock tune, fletch tune for bullet holes then move the rest so broadheads and field points impact the same.
Learn the very easy art of paper tuning. This is far more important than the weight of your arrow. Make perfect arrow flight your number one priority before all else.
At the end of the day everyone has s a little different setup, what we all need to do is decide what is best for your own setup. Not by marketing scams, but by trying different setups ,ie bows broadhead a, arrows. And honestly, there’s plenty of other variations. But end of the day a BALANCE of everything combined would be the best bet I believe. Great job guys as usual keep it up!
I shot 560gr total arrow setup with a 200gr single bevel up front and flew great. My only concern was dropping after 40 yards. I’m going to rebuild my arrow setup this year and drop down to roughly 515-525gr and I think would be just right imo
Did you notice major drop after 40? I don’t yet and I’m shooting 605 grains with 175g in the front.
@@kylebugden8939 yes I did
How often do you shoot whitetail over 40 yards away? I know this is a sensitive topic for some, I’m genuinely asking.
@@guitarq359 depends on the person and the land you hunt. I have friends that have deer on the wall from 80 yards and an elk from 75. I’m not good enough at those distances but most of the people I hunt with can hold a 3 inch group at 60
40 yds is my limit on a perfect shot opportunity on the ground. Which never really happens in the woods - so it's kind of irrelevant to most in the midwest/east/SE. Out west if the wind wasn't blowing crazy 40 all day if he doesn't know I'm there.
Personally I think Troy bringing the Ashby report to a lot of people has created a lot of the debate. Its a trade off - weight versus speed = momentum. Super light and super fast with no penetration may have less arch but no penetration. Super heavy and extremely slow and the buck leaves the scene before the arrow arrives is just as useless. A 5mm Axis with 200 grains up front gives a 550 gr arrow - to me a happy balance with great penetration. Probably unnecessarily heavy for whitetails but good all rounder for me.
Y’all have a deal with Hoyt? As a long time listener I always assumed y’all shot crossbows as much as y’all love them
Clipping foliage or branches on a shot affecting light or expandable flanges plus bones of animal factor in to more logical choice
I switched to the ranch fairy method a few years back and love it!
That xx75 with a Magnus stinger is probably still the most affective arrow
Hahaha old school
Is Darrel transmitting from the international space station? ; )
I shot a 575gr total arrow setup this past year with my v3x and a iron will 2 blade 200gr up front. The only issue i have with it is the damn arrow drop on it. Its nothing crazy but it's enough to want to add pins to your site cause 5 yards can be a difference maker. It was only 60lbs (had a 70lb cam thing on order but it tuned so damn good with 60 i didn't want to change it). Think I'll go up to 70 this year and maybe drop to a 150gr head. Just so much shit to think about. All for 1 shot lol
I’m in the same boat TD. I went up to 650. But like you said , not a fan of trajectory. Gonna try to back off a little and find a better balance
At your age you should be used to them old longer axle to axle bows. They used to be over 40 miminal
The scenario Troy describes where the under spined arrow flies point up would almost certainly be caused by a low nock point. Underspined arrows will tear nock left where as over spined arrows will tear nock right.
What you are saying is correct on a bow that isn’t center shot. With a center shot bow a weak spine flies nock low.
After the interview you said it would be hard to retrain your self to shoot the scapula, thats not what troy has ever said to do. shoot Vital V and and he says heavy setup is for plan B when you hit bones on accident your still fine.
Much greater chance of hitting liver and guts than the knuckle of the scapula which is why you’d shoot a giant rear deploying bh like sevr or killzone. Unless you like walking a lot of course.
The reason to have as much FOC as possible is for better arrow flight. Greater FOC results in a longer distance between the fulcrum(balance point) and the nock. This gives the arrow a longer lever arm which increases the effect of the fletching on the arrow.
Arrows with higher FOC also stay closer to the tangent of the arc throughout flight, meaning at impact it’s more likely to be perpendicular to the target surface which helps ensure penetration. Lighter arrows stay parallel to the ground throughout the arc which means they’re more likely to be off center and lose energy at impact.
@@3vo408 this is a simple way to say what OP said. The shaft following the arrow better will help increase the effectiveness of the fletching.
🤦🏼♂️
No, it’s for greater penetration. Target shooters, with light, fast arrows, have perfect arrow flight, with no problem.
Watch slow motion arrow flight, all arrows flex, it's the degree of flex that reduces performance.
I considered shooting a single bevel. You must shoot the deer twice to get the total cut that I shoot w my 4 blade fixed heads. I’ve shot many deer since ‘88 and have never had an issue and yes I punch em through the shoulder often.
I agree, great way to put it. It is interesting to see the obsession with penetration as the primary goal. As it seems to not be the most common issue.
You’re comparing four blade to two blade and that is apples to oranges. If you’re comparing single to double bevel thats a different discussion. Its only double the cut if you’re getting the same penetration and length of cut.
@h2tym that is if the 4 blade doesn't pass through as well. If both pass through (which they do the vast majority of the time) then you are cutting 2x the tissue. It also opens a more square hole in the hide, which is harder to close-up.
One thing I like to bring up is that it isn't just about pass through or cut size. It's about what you "touch" or cut. With that extra blade perpendicular 90d then you might cut something that you would not have otherwise. I can't be the only one who was surprised on a shot that I immediately thought was bad to recover an animal. Then, upon investigation, I barely clipped a lung or something else lethal.
That's why I like a decent cut size 3 or 4 blade.
I will say your bow is tremendously quieter when your arrows are heavier with wind in your favor sound traveling in your favor your going to see less jumping the string or at least at a delayed rate something to think about nobody’s going to believe me but my slowest bow switchback xt 699 grain arrow my truefire synapse is louder than the bow at 72lbs it’s either the tripper or the fletchings then hear it’s like 50/50 on jumping the string every scenario is different I’d say just try it what I did to shoot heavy and fast is bought a 85lb safari by Mathews 700 grain arrows come off at 271fps it’s devastating but I get harder string jumps cause the bow is louder
Great input
I have noticed a huge difference is quieter with heavier too
Now I'm over here looking at my bow's 28" axle to axle
Look into Iron will if you guys are trying to stay light, looks like you're wearing their merch
I was way under spined for years. I thought the "400" on my arrows were the weight in grains. Didn't really have anyone to teach me before discovering archery TH-cam. The last few years have seen a lot of positive changes.
I thought that for years.
When he said that people dont shoot hunting bows for target i tuned out. This past ASA there was several pro shooter's with hunting bows and several of them won. Accuracy kills, confidence kills.
Lol a lot are in outdoor
Whitetail, for the most part will all be shot within 30 yards . The majority under 20. So, shoot whatever you want, shoot super light, super heavy, or in between. Practice constantly. You should be able to consistently hit a 1” target at 20. Whatever range you an consistently hit a 4” target…. Thats your effective range. Don’t shoot further than that.
Another great one boys!!
I’d love to know what his definition of “accurate” would be cause I know plenty of guys that shoot a 29 very very well and shot 7 inch groups at 100 yards
Juat went from 434 to 510 and i movwd my sight before shooting mived it to 22 yards from 20 and i was high, put it back on 20 and was hitting in the same exact group with my 434's lol. Dont notice anything till i get past 40.
Its a 26" rip tko 300 spine, 50grain titanium insert, 3 max hunters left helical, and a 200grain tuffhead single bevel now from a 125grain sevr also changed my nock think its a grain heavier. Inhad to pass up 2 deer this year because i had the serv up front and i dont like that feeling of being limited by my equipment, if im the reason thats one thing and when your the reason your limited you practice correct, well when its the equipment thats the reason why would you not change it?
Most B&C's are under 25, if your shooting whitetails and 99% of your shots are under 25 yards i dont know why you would use a light arrow with a mechanical, yea when everything is perfect there f*cking amazing i know this but when shit dont go as planed and your mechanical blades break or the deer dont give you that perfect shot opportunity and you have to pass up that buck youve been after you can kick yourself in the ass. I know most of yall wont admit it but i know it happens as its happend to every simgle person i know personally but you get someone online thwy lie about everything because whos gonna check them. I dont give a shyt if you lie to me but dont lie to yourself to make you feel like your better than the next guy, thats lame af and you should probably fix this imaginary bada** mentality as ita not helping you at all. Confidence is one thing but internet only confidence is a dumb 😆
I'm going to build a 600+ grain setup this spring to test out and see how it works. Ohio puplic land I'm pretty much limited to 25 and under in the woods, sometimes I'm looking for more room because I don't like being so close because of arrow paradox and it's still flexing so you loss energy
Spend the extra money on broad heads in your first season hunting (125$ tuffhead). You won’t regret spending the money. Unless you lose them, sharpen them and use again.
I guarantee Ranch Fairy drinks Budlight!
Love bud light . And anyone else that is tolerant and open minded toward people that are different than themselves.
@@paulwakefield1015 😂
I willing to bet u drink bud light & snort fairy dust !
@@cray-z7404 absolutely. love it
No. He leaves that up to you and your “friends”. Heard any good banjo music lately?
Absolutely love the podcast. Mean this with all my heart but please move the on air sign. With it flashing it looks like your screaming on air all show lol.
The biggest advantage of speed over mass in my opinion is your margin of error on longer range shots. If you think an animal is at 45 yards and it's acutally 53 yards, a faster arrow with less drop in that range may still hit the animal compared to a heavier arrow that will drop more over that 8 extra yards. Heavier is better, but there's a balance there somewhere.
Do you believe 45 yards is an ethical shot?
@@bigz5262 It's completely situational, species dependent & your ability. 45 yds on a whitetail? For me, most likely no. The situation that I would feel comfortable with it is really unlikely. It would have to be completely unaware, head over shoulder looking away at another deer/squirrel/animal making noise, little wind, perfect range, me standing on flat ground & not in a tree with all the time in the world. Exceedingly rare situation.
45 yards on an elk? All day if the conditions are right. They just don't move much on shot (especially bulls in the rut) and the vitals are significantly larger. Penetration has never been a problem for me - or my adult male family & friends with average setups & fixed heads. This is why most people out west have this opinion
I completely understand now that I moved from Montana to Kentucky why people can't fathom longer shots. There just isn't the opportunity to shoot further than that in the woods (most of my shot opportunities are 20 & in) & whitetail are crack heads. The odds of me getting a 20 yard shot on an antelope is slim to none. Same with mule deer - possible but unlikely. I feel more comfortable with a 45 yd shot standing on the ground than a 25 yd shot on my weak side in a tree. Especially with all those little branches that are half impossible to see in the last hour of light.
I practice and tune fixed broadheads out to 100 so that I can have my western range limited at 50 yards. My broadhead group at 50 on my knees twisted over weak side, with my heart rate elevated from running is what some can't do at 20. The biggest BS thing that RF says is that you'll never be Levi Morgan. It is silly - of course you probably can't! It doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to get as good as you possibly can. I am so surprised as to what I can do now shooting vs 8 years ago.
Lastly, It is so common for mule deer/elk to get shot at 20 & bounce out to 70+ and stand there unknowing what happened. If my shot shot was lethal but not idea & I have the opportunity - I will absolutely take a follow up shot to put another hole in that bull at 70-100. I'd argue it is unethical not to.
The problem with people is they can't understand their own ability. I had a friend last year who rarely shoots & doesn't know crap about tuning tell me he is comfortable at 80 on an elk. I told him he's so full of crap his eyes turned brown. This is the problem with TH-cam & influencers. They shouldn't put out bragging about long ranges (even if it's ethical for that shooter to do so) because all this people then think it is ethical.
@@chrismuhlbeier6948 I agree. If you can hit the center of the target at 50 yards on your 1st arrow on the range, then 45 yards is probably ethical. If you can't put a group of 3 arrows inside of 8" at 30 yards after you've warmed up, then no, it isn't. An ethical shot is based on an individual's ability and to some extent his equipment.
@@bigz5262lol of course come out west sometime
Light arrows deceleration quicker than heavier arrow
The idea behind shooting one of those set ups is not really to go through a bone like a the scapula it’s just gives us more room for error because if you shoot more forward a bit in front of the crease there’s more vitals but also that Chance of hitting heavy bone
But it also creates more room for error with the amount of arrow drop yard by yard.
@@randallthomas1538I mean all that really means is that you need to practice with your setup at both known and unknown distances; which you should already be doing
Lets see what I need...
Fast arrow flight to be a little forgiving on range estimation errors
Fast arrow to help avoid string jump / random movements
flies well through the air to hit exactly where I want every time
"flies" well through the meat to get great penetration and complete passthroughs even when I whack a couple big bones
a head that is super sharp and completely indestructible
a set up that is quiet
Add to all the above affordable because I cant buy or test 50 different broadheads / arrows / bows
I have no idea how I could ever kill anything with an arrow - yet somehow we do it -
Perspective and balance
Y’all need warren Womack on the podcast
Okay so I’m desperately searching my mind for a dopey remark and it is not happening so I’m going have to just say thank you 🙏! Excellent post and hopefully my inner smart A$$ kicks back into gear soon!
The closest thing to bone i can think of is abs or pvc pipe.
Tooth of the Arrow company has some research videos of interest
Social media is the reason.
Over and under spine. IMHO Overspine is a myth. If you're shooting normal 65-80 pounds there isn't enough spine to over spine. Going a couple spines up to to about the industry toughest spine of 200 isn't ging to show up on paper or walk back. I did it on both my 70 pound Hoyt Carbon Spyder turbo and my 80 pound PSE EVO EVL 32. Both I tuned with standard spine arrows off the Easton chart. The Hoyt a 400 and the PSE a 300. Now I shoot a 200 spine 5mm with a 50 grain half out and 150 grain head on a total 580 shaft . Both bullet hole, and walk back to 60 yards money !
Now talk underspine ? It's a flat out TRAIN WRECK ! Underspine matters, Overspine doesn't. I'm shooting over spine on 2 bows and they both are money.
I came to understand this when Troy Ranch Fairy recommended me a 200 spine Sirius with a 100 grain half out and with my 150 grain head on my 80 pound bow, thought I was over spined ? Nope. So I backed out the half out and used a lite weight garbage insert, still a bullethole everything the same except a bit faster. Started researching overspine and found Podium Archer MFJJ and he was going over it, and made mention to it and showed it. So I tried it and was shocked.
The only element that needs consideration is accuracy. The broad head that hits the spot will kill the Deer 🦌!
the "spot" you are aiming at moves! What happens then when you make contact with a leg bone/scapula??? Accuracy is the only consideration in indoor archery where it doesn't matter what your arrow does after making impact.
I'm over these guys
And?
Just my honest opinion, I feel we as bowhunters and hunters in general just simply need to stop talking down to and about other bowhunters and hunters. We ALL want to insure a quick and humane harvest, we ALL hunt for the tradition of it, for the meat, for the memories and bonds that come with hunting that you simply can't get anywhere else. If we don't stop fighting over gear, set up choices, etc and start standing together as one against those who are looking at taking our rights as hunters away then we won't even have hunting. Shoot, wear, etc what ever you have confidence in and what makes you feel like you have an edge and just enjoy hunting the way it is meant to be enjoyed. The constant arguing and unnecessary negative criticism and shade throwing seriously needs to stop(unless that person is genuinely being consistently unethical and or doing illegal things and in that case you probably should just report them to whatever states dnr that they reside in).
So many inline ads I can barely watch this. Is it just because I'm in Europe?
Never seen that before???
@@HUNTRPOD I've been getting two ads (one unskippable) every five minutes or so. I know TH-cam defaults to a high percentage of advertisements but for a longer video like this, that's just painful.
@@HUNTRPOD In case you were worried about it, your newest video didn't have as many ads this time. Pretty sure it was a country specific problem.
Just a thought if arrows are constantly flexing in flight how would anyone shoot a bullet hole. I'm not disagreeing with the therory but people including myself are getting bullet holes with properly splined arrow and I even get bullet holes with broadheads or I don't go hunting. Thank's guys for your podcast and interesting information. I believe a good well sharpened broadhead with good flight is the trick for success in clean human harvests. Technology has really made it more complicated which is a marketing dream. Safe hunting Thank you
Nobody in the world has a properly “splined” arrow since arrow “splines” don’t exist.
It's hard to take advice from someone who doesn't deer hunt. I do enjoy listening to different ideas but I'd love for RF to shoot a 430 grain arrow with a machanical with a decently tunded bow. He preaches to prepare for plan b but in my experience a huge cut is just as good of a "plan B" as going through bone.
The major problem with expandables, given both arrows are bareshaft tuned is the extreme loss of energy resulting from the opening of the expandable broadhead. the faster they go the greater the energy loss to drag. Drag is equal to the square of the velocity. As speed increases the drag increases exponentially. Its basic physics, there is no room for debate. there is no scenario where an expandable penetrates more than a fixed blade given they the same arrow, point weight, and both are tuned correctly.
There is room for debate what is the percentage loss? Also where do you find a 1 1/8 inch rear deploying mechanical to test against a 1 1/8 inch fixed.
You incorrectly described where Troy says to aim for. The fatal/vital V is where you aim for. You're not aiming for the scapula on a deer.
Just do what I did this year. I bought a 90# APA King Cobra DG and will be shooting a 29” arrow weighting approximately 980 grains around 247 fps with 22% foc. 🎉
What arrow spine are you using? That sounds like you'd run out of spine pretty quick. I'd love to hear more about this set up
@@austinhall5933I’m using a 150 spine Black Eagle Rampage for now, later I’m going to upgrade to a Bishop Fad eliminator which starts as a 125 spine.
@@officerfoxtrot3633 how do you like the rampage arrows? I looked at them but went with rip TKOs
@@austinhall5933 I’m still getting used to the bow and tuning, so I have around 50 arrows through it.
But the Rampages are shooting fine. I need to do a little fine tuning for broadheads, but they shoot well. I have a 200 grain ethics ss insert/outsert on the front plus a 300 grain point. I’ve shot Simmons Great White fixed blades with a 50 grain adapter on it and it’s only slightly right of field points. That’s using a Bully fletch. When I get it tuned correctly, I’ll nock tune each arrow and refletch with DCA Super Sabre’s.
With a wrap, fletch, and the epoxy I use, total arrow weight finished came out to 1010 grains.
@@officerfoxtrot3633 that's one stout spear.
Shot placement trumps arrow weight , speed , bow poundage, broadhead type etc etc etc! The 2nd most important factor is broadhead sharpness! Period! This a fact!
Didn’t Levi Morgan win an ASA championship with a hunting bow last year… I’d put my house up that he’d beat you with a 20” ATA bow and you can take a 50” ATA. Bow and Levi will beat you every time!
Could not agree more with the 6.5 queermore comment he made.
The 2 most ridiculous trends in deer hunting in the last 10 years are the 6.5 creedmoore and the heavy arrow bullshit.....back in the day bows where slowwww and arrows where heavy and thousands of deer died to them....then in the late 80s and early 90s the overdraw trend came and went...and oh. With over draw and we can shoot a short light arrow super fast....and thousands of deer died that way for years....now we got guys shotting heavy ass arrows again...but shooting 80 plus lbs to try to get a little more speed back....and yea deer are being killed.....but ya also got guys like me with my early 2000s over draw hoyt at 70lbs with a 29 1/4 inch draw shooting a arrow that's 24 1/4 inches long and roughly 347 grains...blowing threw 3 deer a season no problem
There is no such thing as overkill for an arrow. Why wouldn’t you want to increase chances of a lethal shot?
Dude doesn't even know what arrow he's shooting!!!
Hoyt, yea cause no other bow kills. Gucci ass hunters
Like nock on john dudley said
" how can Troy teach when he don't know anything ".
I think at this point we all have ranch princesses arrow opinion memorized. I made it 20 minutes and will have to check back next week. Hopefully someone less annoying
People fear what they don’t know and what they don’t understand bm
I get pass through with a 400 grains, why would I shoot 600??? Because some guy from Texas who shoots pigs over feeder says so???😂 No thanks
@@jfreak7589 insecurities are loud. I think we want to be the smartest guy in the room and when we aren’t, we resort to being condescending.
Listening to these ranch fairies makes me want to jump in front of a bus wtf
I agree! I'm not drinking that coolaid!
@@jfreak7589right! I wonder what bullet they use for hogs scud missiles guarantee its not a .17
34:15 Learn to tune a damn bow. Simple, basic tuning methods can turn a 3" bare shaft tear into a perfect bullet hole. Period. End of discussion. Nock tuning is all well and good, but modern arrows are not so inconsistent that nock tuning has a major influence, nor should it be a go-to method of tuning. I shoot the cheapest Easton 6.5's you can buy. If I can get one to fly perfect, the rest do to.
Seems like that the bottom line
🙄 I've killed many deer with a 54lb bow and 385 grain arrow don't drink the Fairy kool-aid
I don’t know. I think you’re getting too deep. Kinetic energy is kinetic energy is kinetic energy. How do you actually measure that? You have to have consistent parameters to measure the variable. Doesn’t it make sense to use ballistic gel? Shooting animals, you’re always going to have a different angle, hitting different material ( one time bone one time not) its just not an accurate way to do it. You are trying to measure a variable with another variable.
I am not interested in sharpening broadheads constantly tbh. I would rather practice more and wait for shorter shots and better angles. I’m willing to live with a bad hit and or bad penetration once in a while. I like Troy but this whole process would completely drain the fun out of bow hunting for me. To each his own…
Ranch Fairy says 1000 Grains or your doing it wrong!
Lol
No, he doesn’t. He says 650 grains, with 20% or more foc will kill any animal on earth.
Gray shirt is being triggered by the fairy lol
Wrong again. The reason shorter bows are less forgiving is because they are inherently more stable because of their overall length and sometimes slightly larger brace height. There is nothing wrong with a shorter bow for hunting. The accurracy of a bow mostly comes down to the shooter.
Best arrow set up is 450 grains with as big a 3 blade mechanical as you can shoot through both sides of a deer. Don't need an hour pod cast to figure that out.
For you guys who like to shoot heavy logs go shoot a 3d unknown course and see how good you are.
Milton , are you a non colleged white male from
Perhaps a southern state? Kindly just asking .
@@paulwakefield1015 I'm 76 yrs old live in Michigan and have BS+ 30 degree form Western Michigan University. Have been bow hunting for over 40 yrs and killed a lot of deer with the 2315s. Just because you have a mic in front of you doest't make you a genius just saying.
More power to you if that setup works for you. However, comparing hunting to 3D is like comparing NASCAR to F1. They’re completely different scenarios that require different strategies.
@@guitarq359 Not really, done a lot of both and 3d is as close to hunting as it gets save the rush. I use the same set up for 3d as I do for hunting bowtec ss at 60 lbs victory 204 with 125 tip. The thing I change is nap spitefire and a lited nock. Can't hit a 3d deer at 30yds you won't kill many deer. there are two extremes lite arrows and heavy arrows neither are the best all around set up. Middle of the road works the best for the most. The fairy is at the heavy extreme and most guys I know shoot the middle weight stuff.
@@miltonreeths522 Sure you can use similar setups for both. My point is, with 3D it doesn’t matter if your arrow sticks in the target at a 45 degree angle - if the point is in the 12 ring, it’s a 12. I would not want to be shooting arrows at 45-degree angles towards animals.
When did James Hatfield start bow hunting? Get back to playing Metallica songs! Lol
Lol… short axle bow because its cool??? Nothing to do with coolness . Its all about mobility. If you can hit ping pongs balls at 30-40 your good and i do with my cp28.
We know RF drives a side by side into his hunting spot and sits in a well manicured fixed stand location over a feeder to hunt. Why would we even give a tinkers damn about his opinion on short bows. 😂
You actually sound jealous bud. He says in his videos that it’s testing not hunting!!
Everyone should be bareshaft tuning their arrows. too stiff is just as bad as too weak. You should start with a bareshaft arrow that is too long(weak) and cut it down a 1/4 inch at a time until it groups with the fletched shaft. These guys dont know what they are talking about Your arrow can definately be too stiff.
What are the negatives of an arrow being too stiff?
@@russelllangworthy8855 poor arrow flight is the result. The bare shaft will tend to impact to the left of your aim point or tear nock right when shot through paper. It’s worth the time to find the correct spine/arrow length/point weight combination.
@@ethanmontgomery4413 That’s for a right handed shooter, correct?
@@russelllangworthy8855 yes, the opposite is true for a left handed shooter
With modern compound bow rests and trigger releases you can get away with using an arrow that is too stiff. If the bow is set up perfectly it will produce a bullet hole in paper at close range. However, accuracy will suffer at longer ranges(greater dispersion). It will definitely shoot better than a weak arrow. Also, most stiff arrows are heavier than weak arrows so going to stiff will decrease your FOC unnecessarily and result in slower speeds and a more arcing trajectory. If spine was not an issue arrow manufacturers would only make stiff arrows.
Don't even know what your shooting ??? 300's ?? No 350?? You must be Kidding !! "Your Killing me Smalls !" might need to take up a new sport, that you can keep track of
Lol yea my bad. I have 6 dozen and I don’t change. That said they are 300s 😂
These guys have the right idea but they dont really know what they are talking about. The reason for having a 3 to 1 ratio broadhead shape(length to width) is because of the increased mechanical advantage.
Can I respectfully ask what your credentials, education and authority is on all things physics. Could we compare that to Darrel?
@@paulwakefield1015 I don’t have any credentials as a physicist, just a well read archer with more than 40 years of hunting and competition experience. The comment about velocity and it’s relationship to drag is just basic physics. You don’t need a degree to know that, just do your research. Darrell is an expert in his field and I would never question his expertise on this. In fact I agree with everything he says that relates to the science. However, he is not an experienced archer. I also want to say that I think what the Ranch fairy and Darrel are doing as far as adult broadheads and the quest for perfect arrow flight is long overdue and we should all be listening. I only dispute some of the details. I completely support the work of the Ashby foundation and truly believe in the work they are doing. Thanks for being respectful. I’m sorry if I was not.
All Troy does is quote Ashby. Wth is his background? He said he sells medical equipment
He doesn’t sell medical equipment. He’s a respitory therapist
420 grain arrow all day for moose,elk and whitetail..Absolutely zero reason to shoot any arrow above 500 grains..Absolutely zero...
What if you’re shooting 82 lbs with a 31” draw length?
@Russell Langworthy well your the 4%.Why on gods green earth would anyone need to pull 82 pds? Maybe shooting a bull elephant?
@@timwozniak7574 How much weight do you shoot?
@@russelllangworthy8855 65 pds
@@timwozniak7574 65 lbs? Holy cow. My daughter kills deer every year with 48 lbs. Why are you shooting so much weight?
I tried to suffer through the ranch fairy talking, but he's a salesman, and I couldn't take the rest of this podcast. No shooter is the same, and everyone's setup is different. My wife can get a complete pass through with her "29-inch piece of crap" at 60# with both a fixed and mechanical blade (a 410-gram arrow). She also shoots 3D out to 111 yards and is accurate at long distances. We will continue to be the idiots shooting the 29-inch bows. He is correct that accuracy is most important, but comfort also plays a role in accuracy. If you are not comfortable with a 33- to 35-inch bow, then you won't be accurate either.
You had a really hard time, huh Travis?
All due respect, Troy preached this school of thought for years before Sirius and Tuffhead started putting his name on their products.