How do you SUCCESSFULLY play your favorite units? - 40k Army Roles Primer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มิ.ย. 2024
- On this episode, Brad and Eric go over the basic roles and unit archetypes that they use to make a cohesive and well rounded list. While units may fit into multiple roles, these archetypes can help you narrow in on what wargear and options you give a unit and how to deploy them on the battlefield. So whether you’re a new player or a veteran approaching a new army, listen in to some Tactics 101!
00:00 Intro
02:25 Scoring Secundaries
04:28 Trade Pieces
06:10 Backpoint Holder
07:30 Midpoint Bruiser
08:28 Anchor
10:30 Backline Fire Support
11:57 Anti-Tank
13:35 Transport
16:53 Support
18:55 Assassins
21:56 Chaff Sweaper
24:00 Overlapping Roles
28:04 How to Identify a Role
Show Links:
Website: poorhammer.libsyn.com/
Patreon: / solelysingleton
Brad’s Twitter: / drruler
Eric’s Twitter: / onekuosora
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This is how I play, I run fluff lists that are far from optimal, but I do my best to maximize the usage of each unit I have in the roles they fulfill.
That’s the best way to play IMO.
Definitely the best way to play. You’re maximizing your enjoyment of your army and your models, but also making room to be strategically efficient.
I cannot run meta armies. I play things that are cool. Nobody is every comfortable discovering that my Knight Tyrant with a flamer and harpoon will be emerging from deep strike and that feeling is worth 10fold what winning feels like
I just finished 1 4th of my space marine force I have 1 5 man infiltrator and infiltrator squads, I have a rhino(I had it even tho I can't use it) and I have a contemptor terminator and a chaptor master in gravis armour
I generally only play 100% fluff lists. If theres a daemon in an Iron Warriors army, i dont want it.
I've always said you should play an army you enjoy playing. An "optimal" army can still lose from bad rolls or just a better army, but an army you enjoy playing, you'll be happy even when you're losing. That's why I swapped from Space Marines to Tau. I don't care if The Eight suck, they're FUN to play, and that's what matters more than anything.
Imo, there is also a lot of fun to be had by trying to make the best out of a suboptimal situation. For me at least! You can only win (by not loosing), since you are the underdog anyway.
I LOVE The Eight! Was such a fun way to play Tau!
Yes+yes
As a guard player, one of the most important roles is one you talked about but only with regards to chaff sweepers: Chaff. You don't think about it because it's so fundamental to the Guard playstyle, but my tanks fill out so many of the roles outlined in the podcast, and the point of the guardsmen is to say "Hey, if you want to get my tanks into melee and stop them shooting, you have to carve through 20 guardsmen." Which they invariably will, but they will have to spend resources and time doing that, and if I can eliminate their chaff sweepers early, they'll have a lot harder time doing that
As someone who is fairly new to 40k and wargaming in general, this is actually really insightful. I consider myself pretty good at tactics in games and things in general, however it didn't even occur to me to think about the different roles of units in this way.... Of course I'd look at their weapons and abilities and be like "Oh these are good at dealing with this" But I wasn't specifically thinking about what that unit is going to be doing on the battlefield. Having a basic unit's whole purpose be to sit on an objective for the least points possible makes so much sense haha
Hence why 35 point extraction squads are all the rage in Imperium armies and sold are out everywhere
I play what feels fun and try to find a role for such units. Sometimes I'm successful. Other times I run an army with 5 "distraction carnifex" units. You'd be amazed how often that trick throws off an experienced opponent😂
I mean, it's your money and your model. You get to decide how you will use it. Nobody is gonna boss you around for it, unless you wanna get competitive.
To add to the fun of thematic armies regardless of competitiveness, one thing I found is that sometimes just by doing something that you enjoy and pushing it to the limit it means that you get value because those "meta" armies are not prepared for it. A different game, but in Flames of War aircrafts are generally considered to not be worth the points so they see little table play. In turn, this means that nobody has anti-air, so if you do bring aircrafts they tend to be invulnerable.
That's why vertus praetors are such an outstanding unit. They can fill so many of those roles way more than decently. They're fast, can rip both elite units and 5-10chaff units apart, are durable enough to require AT to shift them, have AT ranged options capable of decimating 12W tanks in a single round of shooting and can even take hurricane bolters to easily clear hordes with 36 S4 D1 shots in rapid fire range (60 for 5 bikes).
This is a really helpful video! I'm still pretty new to the gameplay of 40K so when building lists I've not been totally sure if I've been fulfilling every position needed for a good list. This is an excellent start into battle tactics on the table top.
This is really insightful! As a Tau player I kinda got into strategizing based on how the Tau-specific dynamics work. For example, pathfinders supporting other units by firing first, drones protecting units, or crisis suits filling in gaps in main strategies. It's kinda hard to conceptualize the base dynamics when I've got this to deal with.
I think I'm getting it a little better now though.
I will say one thing about Dedicated Transports: they don't compete for slots in something like Heavy Support, Fast Attack, or Flyers. You get a free Dedicated Transport slot for every Infantry unit. Which means, in terms of vehicles that can carry your dudes, it's free real estate as far as the Force Organization chart is concerned.
That Rhino might not do a lot besides move dudes around. But taking it means you have more room for things like Eliminators, Devestators, Hellblasters, etc. (Obviously, the Rhino can't transport the Primaris models. But you get my meaning.)
Especially notable for armies that actually get pretty good transports.
Imperial Guard and Custodes come to mind, those transports aren't just metal boxes.
The Custodes transports are legit occasionally worth considering even if you have zero plans to pack it full of bananas.
Chaos rhinos are pretty good for this. Kitted out fully, they'll kick out shooting equivalent to a 5- man unit of legionairres
Alright... kinda stupid question but I'm new and have no idea what I'm doing so I'm just gonna throw this out there.
Following your directions in your "How to build an army from scratch" video, I think that the Grey Knights are really cool. I love how the models look, I love the idea that every unit can cast, and I think their lore (or what little I know of it) is pretty badass. However I can also see how few models could cause some issues. So could you use a Dreadnaught as a Backline Fire support AND a back point holder?
The big issue I can see here is that the back point could be in a place with bad firing lines, and there could be a math issue I am just unaware of due to lack of experience. The backline fire support could be offset by the Warlord trait or aura that gives ObSec (at least I thought I saw that was a thing) but that would also tether your Warlord to the Dreadnaught and that would negate the benefit of the dreadnaught pulling double duty.
Backline holders tend not to need Ob Sec because it's unlikely opponents will challenge those objective markers directly.
You can use something like a Razorback or Dreadknight/Dreadnought to hold it while doing fire support or you could just use something like 5 strike marines hidden in a building for something cheap.
For somebody completely new you have way more thought put into your list building than you're expected to until you get some reps in to learn the rules. With that much attention paid you'll be just fine I promise. Relax and enjoy hobbying and building up your force over time, don't feel the need to rush things.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast Ah... I confused Ob Sec with sticky objectives. I see my issue. Terrain placement also would also complicate matters.
@@SolarComms heavy weapons squads are my favorite backline support!
Another thing to think about is that you don’t always need to be doing everything all the time. The armies I play are usually melee heavy so my general strategy is to rush and simply prevent them from getting to the objective in the first place then double back with a few units to cap objectives
Once upon a time venerable dreadnoughts were the premiere Grey Knights backline unit with the correct upgrades (Psiflemen Dreads in 5th). You're not exactly spoiled for choice for backline either; most of your stuff has 24" range and/or would much rather be pushing forwards. It's not the tournament choice but a full ranged-weapon dread will get the job done effectively enough.
That was a good discussion. Thanks.
I’ve been playing for 4 years and I think this is the best video I have ever seen on list building advice.
I have very recently found this channel and this video convinced me to subscribe. I enjoyed it a whole lot and I think I learned a lot from it.
Happy I found your channel. Massively underrated. Great video thanks for the info
Rhinos can be fun. Have all the guys hop out with their extra 3 inches of move, then drive it right up the board. Go right up to the enemies and rotate it so it becomes a mobile wall that move blocks them. Alternatively, find that big squad of 20 necron warriors and charge them with the rhino. Normally they can't fall back and shoot. If you're lucky the rhino explodes.
🔥🎸🔥
Thanks so much for the video!
Having not played a game since the end of 8th edition, this is some really good info for getting back into list building. Would love to see a ranking chart for units that fill these rolls (focused by faction), though I know that would be an insane amount of work.
For most I can figure these out. The one that I'm really stuck on is choosing between cultists and traitor guard as your CSM point holders.
I got a dark imperium box and am now trying to build some of the marines as space wolves. Grabbed a couple extra sets for cool factor. This is handy for piecing together a strat
I hope they turn out great, have fun and make some cool characters :)
I just looked up their price on Amazon. Jesus Christ it's currently being listed at 1.2k USD. WTF.
Man, the editors really had fun with this one.
Big fan of Wraith-focused armies but I've never been totally sure what role the tiny Wraiths are meant to fulfill. They're bulky, relatively, but the combination of slow+short range and high expense makes it hard for me to find a role for them. Backline stuff can be held by cheaper units, and getting them into midfield to contest can be difficult. They're expensive enough that piling on transports as well adds up quick. In sustained firefights their low mobility leads to them taking a lot of attrition.
I don't have money to play tabletop, but if I had the capability, I would always play guard and run at least one Baneblade.
I exclusively play meme lists, and I will not be stopped.
I may have been called out for as a new person to the hobby collecting Marines and wanting to have Firstborn Tacticals that go "Okay we have our heavy bolter, we have our missile launcher, and a buncha bolterbois, not great at anything but we can do a lot of different things, but that's how I want my tacticals and Lion as my witness THAT'S HOW THEY SHALL BE, the more specialist tasks can be handled by the Primaris.
Hey! Awesome video. I started 3 months ago my army is ultramarines , have about 900 points panted up. And i need to expand to 2k AsAp to play. i know i want gulliman a calgar, /need. Flyers how to implement them. In my mind it sounds so cool to have actual air support on the battlefield like SC2.
I'd love to see a play by play were you go through a game and why things were done?
Would a whirlwind tank be a good backpoint holder? I figure the lack of line of sight weapons would make it pretty decent at that whilst still being able to shoot.
Edit: Should have finished the video before commenting, lol. Or at least taken a look at the backline fire support section. I think the whirlwind tank is so cool.
I will get a land raider for world eaters and no one will stop me, not even my
bank
I am a huge fan of the idea of running large tau drone squads, I know they are basically chaff, but can they also be used for their volume of fire?
the tarpit or interceptor or pressure. gets in fast and ties up, generally tanky for its cost.
for me my main schtick is hamfisting my Melee smash autarch into lists. i generally use him as a fairly tanky distraction carnifex that is still a danger. (in 8th he sucessfuly 1v1d guilliman) i have a super cool kitbasched model for him and a ton of lore for him... he isnt optimal but he usually either dies stupidly and instantly or is the complete MVP of my list. and he is pretty cheap so his sunk cost isnt so bad
I run Codex Marines (UM Successors) and am struggling with how to employ Heavy Intercessors. I know its not a great unit, but its one I want to use because I own the models and I like it. In smaller point games I've been able to use it for the indirect fire support/backline holder role thanks to smaller board sizes, but I suspect in full 2000 point games this will be less viable. Would it be best used as an anchor, then?
Hey, what do you guys use for the visualization of the audio/mic input?
Excited to see a remake of this for 10th 🤔
Would a tau tau’naur be a good back line fire support, I think it is but
Dont worry past poorhammer the Landraider’s day is coming!
Funny watching this as a knight player
Doomsday arks are fun firesupport distractions
will they kill a lot? Maybe
But they can shrug off a ton of damage
Road block something cheap that requires a turn to deal with such as for gaurd a regular infantry squad
Is there a beginner-identifying role episode? Or something on the net that would help?
What would a midline bruiser be for nids? I thought warriors initially but they aren’t as tanky to sorta hold a line like that with a 4+
Screamer killers are my bruisers of choice. An 11" move with adrenal glands, 2+ armor save, innate -1 damage, permanent light cover with spore cysts, 10 AP -3 damage 3 attacks with an extra attack if you charged, and strategems to give them transhuman, regenerate wounds, or give them EVEN MORE attacks! They have never let me down. The only downside is they're expensive; 160 points each with full wargear and that's without adding adaptive physiologies.
Warriors have kind of fallen out of fashion for me. I would have called them half decent trade pieces before, but recent points changes have made them too expensive for the role. I take them just for their synaptic imperative (works great with screamer killers) and chaining synaptic links now.
So, what you're saying, is I just need to run 64 Khorne Berserkers?
I hope y'all update these for tenth edition soon.
They are great, but with a new edition dropping like a month ago, some of the rules and crap are outdated
what would mortarion classify as?
What role would chaff in horde armies fill cause you cant have like 50 ork boyz sitting on an objective (right?)
What would you use for a khorne daemons backline holder? Skull cannon?
That or 5 Flesh Hounds since they're very cheap for a minimum squad.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast appreciate it, just found your channel, it’s good stuff, keep it up. Cheers
@@thepoorhammerpodcast the corn dog stand
i miss my melee coldstar commander. nothing better than seeing someones entire battle plan fall apart because their key unit just got punched in the face by mecha one punch man
what is my big block of 20 ranger in admech bruiser?
Uhhh, anchor with minimal investment tactical nuke with a pile of support characters and CP.
also how come on the free army builder the captain with a relic shield isn't there
the only issue is knights
most army building doesnt work with knights i mean
how many times is a knight going to be a trade peice?
So for Orks can I reasonably play:
Holder: Gretchin
Bruiser: Nobz with Boss
Anchor+Transport: Trukk
Trade: Beastsnagga Boyz with Boss
Anti-Tank: Squighog Boyz with Boss
Objective Scorers: Kommandos
Chaff: Boyz
Recommended back point holder for space wolves?
I heard a lone cyberwolf is super cheap. Basically just find the cheapest possible thing in the codex.
Hear me out please, i've been poking at the idea of actually buying models and wanting to play warhammer 40k and i am odd as fuck at picking what i want to play.
I'm stuck like crazy on what i want to play. I've literally made lists on what i want to try and the ones i literally do not wish to play. (it's a huge investment after all)
I divided it into three categories, Imperium, Xenos, and Chaos and i'm hoping you could help me with more info to "break the tie".
For Imperium, i'm definitely a huge fan of adeptus mechanicus, I am not a fan of Astra Militarum (no offense to those who are, although i wouldn't mind using Abhumans i seem to like them, especially when comes to Ogryns, Catachans, Squats, and Ratlings), and when it comes to space marine chapters, the three that stick out for me the most that i like are the Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Sisters of Battle (I like them a lot but i don't think sisters of battle has psykers due to lore and what not). Imperial Fist, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights would be more of the the mid ground with all the other ones PAST said mid ground. As for Imperial Knights (hope i'm saying it right, it's the giant NOT titans, or at least to my knowledge they aren't) I wouldn't mind them it's just i know they take a LOT to deploy (or am i thinking of something else?) and would wanna get at least good base units to back it up prior.
For Xenos, i'm stuck between these three, Orks (Definitely would go Freebooterz), Tau, and Necrons, and i'm not a fan of Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Nids (again, no offence to those who are)
and For Chaos, i do like the space marines and daemons, possibly 50/50 but i have an odd fixation between Tzeentch and Khorne (i will admit i do like Magnus and thousand Sons, plus their sorcerors and space marines grab me, but i wouldn't mind a Khornate Faction, especially if it had Kharn the Betrayer, the Khornate Daemons and their machine/monsters tend to grab my attention as well as their Berserkers). Not a fan of Nurgle or Slaneesh (though i wouldn't mind bending a bit towards nurgle if need be, just not a fan of slaneesh, think the closest thing that could grab me towards slaneesh are the Noise Marines.)
It's mostly preferences, and it's the lore that generally grabs me.
Any way to help a brotha?
I can't say I've tried giving this level of advice in a yt comment yet but let's read through and try for quick thoughts:
1. Don't start Ad Mech as your first army, great fun army to have, but very slanted and will be bad for learning with. We had a friend in our group start with them and he now plays mostly Space Wolves as he found it far easier to learn the games ins and outs with a well rounded faction.
2. T'au I'll warn against for the same reasons, but more strongly. T'au is famously a "one phase" army: They shoot. That's it. Nothing else. Sweet second army if your first was something melee focused though. If you went with a Khorne heavy army then T'au or Ad Mech would accent it well as a very different feeling second army.
3. The third veto would be Imperial Knights. My brother plays them, I play Chaos Knights, neither of us would recommend starting with them though. They're once again a great second army to own. If you start with Knights you'll quickly realize how binary they feel when playing. "Does my opponent have enough anti-tank to blow up my knights?" If yes, you're going to be on the back foot. If no, you're going to feel like you won without playing. Very fun option to have on the shelf but not what I'd jump on in a vacuum.
4. If you go Space Marines and you're not super into a single chapter's deep lore just paint them up in a custom color scheme you like and play them as any subfaction on any day. My brother technically collects Blood Angels but I always run them as Iron Hands because I prefer that play style when I have to get my Space Marine reps in for podcast knowledge. As much as GW would like to keep this a secret: The models don't light on fire when you play them as different chapters.
Of your factions you've presented and the interest you've shown in them I'd say go for one of: Space Marines, Grey Knights, Orks, Necrons, Chaos Space Marines, Thousand Sons, or hold off for the launch of the new World Eaters line late this year/early next year and try them.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast whoa, definitely glad i asked first then. I had a feeling Adeptus Mechanicus and Tau would have to wait, i'm not that bummed about it though. Truth be told i was actually thinking of jumping in on Salamanders or Iron Hands anyway, their lore is fun. Thanks man i appreciate it! you earned the sub! You definitely did not disappoint, i gotta get my feet wet first!
@@DarkTemplarKainwhat did u end up choosing bro
@@Eggsecuter oh yes, i went Sallies, when i realized they were warrior smiths the first words in my head were, "hello brothers!'
Surprised you didnt really touch on tarpit units specifically like Plaguebearers
Tyrinid anchor?
Scoring Secundaries
How can I win if I play rough riders and sentinels in the same list
As someone who runs a land raider, I will not take this heresy. Come one land Raider let’s go (I know it’s not good but it is fun)
The scare factor unit.
The best unit in your list
The one where the other person spends the entire first turn firing on it instead of anything else
No I don't mind that you killed my 300pt vehicle what are you talking about that was a deception!
So what do i do with 9 dreadnoughts with 1 tank?
For the algorithm!
Wait how do you pint weapons
point
You don't anymore, in 10th edition you're free to take any weapon and the points are based purely on the models rather than their gear
I play warhammer for fun not necessarily to win. So i win even if i lose.
I'm a guard player , for a one on one I can easily set up an army to crush you ( unless the dice gods hate me ) but the points will be close ( less than 15 pts win or lose ) .
The all comers for tournaments ? The guard suck and I don't think the new codex is going to help , as we are losing to much .
We are getting the Knights / Voltain treatment , just enough to be lifted from the basement
But time will tell
So, do you still think this is the case? My friends who play Guard were really happy with the Codex.
@@Reilly-Maresca I like the new codex , but Guard did not jump to the top and with codex creep ? 6 months we will be in the basement again
Assassin? 30 Boyz
Mid-field bruiser? 30 Boyz
Anti-tank? 30 Boyz
Buffer? 30 Boyz, no need to buff if its dead
Anchor? Good luck wiping out 30 Boyz
Backpoint holder? Grots are just tiny Boyz
No job is too big for the Boyz, they can do it all.
Jokes aside, good video. Was just thinking I needed to get better at army composition and *poof*, this pops up in my recommended.
once I ditched the GW rules, I can play what I own they way I want. nobody likes to be micromanage at work, why would I subject myself to being micromanaged by the GW rules. I don't play tournaments or competitive, so anything is better than GW.
But i want a list of nothing but crisis suits 😭alas, not allowed
Just deploy and play so bad it makes your opponent play so bad you win
Neymar Jr.
Odion Ighalo
André Carrillo
Sergej Milinković-Savić
Rúben Neves
Gustavo Cuéllar
Yasser Al-Shahrani
Calvin Bassey
Kalidou Koulibaly
Saud Abdulhamid
Édouard Mendy
Moussa Marega
Salem Al-Dawsari
Salman Al-Faraj
Mohamed Kanno
Mohammed Al-Buraik
Jang Hyun Soo
Abdullah Al-Mayoof
This has mostly reminded me of how I don't like wargames where the battles lack context. This is entirely rules-independent, though of course some games are better at making you care about preserving your force than others. But in the real world, employing a unit in the "trade-up" role is an act of desperation, and I much, much prefer games and scenarios that reflect that.
Though I suppose one could argue that by encouraging "trade-ups" the 40K rules are encouraging people to adopt the mindset of the setting...
@28:40 hentai tank?
lmao brad spends the whole video sounding reasonable and knowledgeable, then loses all credibility with his silent king take 👀
The waffle house has found its new host