Improving 40K... with CRIME!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- On this week’s episode, Brad, Eric and Berilio go over many games that they played throughout their lives and try to bring the most fun mechanics and abilities to Warhammer 40k.
POORHAMMER MERCH! orchideight.com/collections/p...
Horde Mode Beta Documentation: tinyurl.com/5fs3jr44
Horde Mode Discord: / discord
Mentioned this Episode:
FFXI Corsair footage - • Final Fantasy XI: Cors...
Elden Ring The Wall footage - • THE WALL | Elden Ring
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
00:47 - Warm Up
02:19 - Spell Steal
04:32 - Mind Control
08:34 - Sucking dudes... err... Vacuum Pull
18:03 - Strength in Numbers
14:42 - Gambling
18:01 - Underground Tunnels
21:09 - Goody Two-Shields
22:09 - Shield Barrier
23:52 - Force Field
26:42 - Recall
29:26 - Piercing Shot
32:24 - Stealth Kill
36:19 - Changing Terrain
37:48 - Siege Tank!
39:56 - Sacrifice Mechanic
42:23 - Smoke Screen
45:01 - Soulbind
46:53 - The Colossus
47:04 - Hijacking Weapons
49:01 - Final Thoughts
50:21 - APRIL 29TH - Book Club: Fall of Cadia!
51:07 - Outro
Show Links:
Website: poorhammer.libsyn.com/
Patreon: / solelysingleton
Brad’s Twitter: / drruler
Eric’s Twitter: / onekuosora
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Stealing is wrong. Even GW know this. That's why 40K is such an original idea.
Nothing but purely original ideas in fact, not even allusions to 1980’s media!
😂
only company more original then GW is Blizzard
Nothing is created in a mental vacuum. They all borrow. Sit down
GW has made incredibly unique sculpts just look at the sentinel definitely not a Star Wars AT-ST
Last time I was this early cadians still had a planet.
they have New Cadia now.
Add Caliban to the mix
@@Sercotani let new cadia fall.
i read that as canadians first
This got a real oof outta me
Why does Brad connect Reinhardt with the Gray Knights because “he has a hammer”? What a silly thing to say, everyone knows the Gray Knights don’t have hammers.
Shots fired
Berilio independently inventing the Ratling Gun.
Used to be you got d6 shots, and once you'd rolled to see how many you get, you can choose to roll again. If you ever rolled doubles though, the shots went bad. 1-2 meant you got no shots that turn. 3-4 meant you lost the unit. 5-6 means you fired every attack (including the double), but in a random direction. So you *could* get 21 attacks... but you could also kill your own troops.
And early edition Monoliths with the Mothership.
There’s this great mechanic from AoS that allows you to roll 2d6 and if you get a certain value you can cast a spell. Maybe 40K should do something like that but for psychic!
I will always firmly assert that 9th edition had superior core rules compared to 10th.
@@anexistanthuman2435maybe the core rules, but the rules on units got to be too much. For example my necron Nightbringer had a rule that ignored saves, but my opponents Tyranid model (I forget which) had a rule that let it ignore rules that ignore saves so it could still make its save. The rules were written like two five year olds playing magic. “I have a force field” “well I have a lightsaber that cuts through force fields” “well my forcefield is lightsaber-proof” lol
@@WampaStompas ive never seen 9th edition rules summed up so well
@@anexistanthuman2435like the way detachments worked and pregame spending cp was dumb and I think my other annoying thing was the concept of being wholey within - which was just a biy too specific of spacing to make stacking effects really painful. But overall 9th did a LOT of things right.
@@WampaStompasfuck the Reaper of Obliterax on Winged Hive Tyrant was possibly the most overpowered relic in 9th I've ever seen, that thing ignored EVERYTHING . feel no pains, minuses to wound you name it
In AoS the Curseling can cast “Glean Magic” to learn a spell that an enemy caster knows.
The teef gambling sounds like it could create an interesting gameplay loop.
Start turn with x teef, kill units-> get more teef -> gamble teef for buffs.
A lot of these mechanics are in AoS lol.
Flesh Eater Courts can summon a wall that acts as difficult terrain and halves movement within 3"
Ushoran has a spell that lets him pick an enemy unit and make attacks with that unit as long as the target is in range.
Hedonites are all about gambling
based Flesh Eater Courts (they are my main in AoS)
Skaven literally having the whole gambling or explode mechanic as well. Same with the Siren Song ability with Khorne's prayer that makes a unit move 6" towards the priest
So, he gambling thing was kinda implemented in one of the Ork titans in 8th edition. Basically, you could shoot all of your guns again in the shooting phase, but afterwards if you failed the check, you were out of ammo for the rest of the game. Each time you shot again, the check would go up. If i rmember correctly, it started at either a 3+ or a 4+
it was the stompa's gattling gun and the check started on a 6+
@@tomgosney774 thanks for the correction! I never played orks, just remember seeing a batrep where this rule was used to comedic effect
@@Triptides77It was also implimented in earlier editions with other guns (mostly Orks again) but also in the form of a protection rule for Gaunts in the first edition of Apocalypse; if the *enemy* ended up with a 6 during shooting, they ran out of ammo after the shots were resolved against the gaunts. But you had to field an absolutely ludicrous amount of gaunts to get this rule.
The Boyz yearn for gambling!
About stealth mechanics - Brad you should check the old (3rd ED) codex of the dark eldar. The mandrakes had a really interesting deployment rule where you'd move tokens instead of the unit and any turn you could decide to let them appear at one of them.
That's cool as hell.
Or Genestealer blips in Space Hulk- you know SOMETHING is there, but not how many.
Creep? You mean Shadows of the warp for demons? or Death Guard? it is already there!
Also Power Matrix for Necron Canoptek Court is similar.
tyranid synapse?
18:35 Skaven still has Gnawholes. They're a faction terrain, which means its free, so I'm not entirely sure how it compares to 40K. But Gnawholes are great: they can be set up anywhere basically anywhere on the board, teleport instantly (after movement), but an enemy unit can stand near it and turn it off. Even if all your Gnawholes are blocked, they still give +1 to casting and chanting rolls. Great design.
Man I love how AoS handles faction terrain.
Nids used to have a model that would burrow up as its “deep strike” and other models could use it as well
Faction terrain is kinda cool but my wallet baulks at the idea of buying a $200 (AUD) kit that's about as hard to transport as a Knight but makes up 0% of my army's point costs.
Part of me holds out hope for game modes where each player has a "terrain budget" to purchase ruins, fortifications, traps, etc.
...endless spells are the opposite, the thought of spending points on a model that might not even touch the table is scary. Still an amazing mechanic though and I'd love it in 40k.
@whitewarwolf it was one of the trigon models, it was either the normal or the prime
Fun story: I was at my gaming club last friday preparing for a game of 40k, when a guy shows up with a box of old models, some of them on sprue. He tells us we can take what we want and give him what we decide its worth. I found two things: 1) All the pieces to an old metal Vulkan He'stan which was nice for me since I play Salamanders, and 2) the two sprues for the chassis of a Rhino.
Indeed, Rhinos are free.
In early editions when imperial assassins were introduced, the way that callidus (the shapeshifting one) worked is at the start of the game, the player selected a basic enemy battleline model (or the 3rd edition equivalent) and that would secretly be the assassin. The player could then reveal at any point the assassin and they replace that enemy model with the callidus model. I think this would be a very fun rule to bring back to reintroduce stealth. Issue with this is coming up with a way to keep the players honest about which model they chose.
I thought they had to write it down but keep the information hidden, that way if there were any questions later the paper could be produced to show that yes indeed I did pick that model. I may be mistaken though.
Keeping the player honest wouldn't be difficult. They write it on a post-it, fold it over and give it to the opponent or leave it in clear view. Stick a piece of blue tac or paint a spot on the underside of the chosen models base, making it identifiable.
I think this would work better in KT, given that Leaders and Lone Ops are now a different thing in 10th but it could be a fun idea.
AOS actually has this for Gloomspite. Theres a few units that you can hide inside your grots.
Sadly this belongs to the bygone eras of "silly but fun" casual 40K. Metashittery doesn't allow fun to exist.
And later on (4E onwards?) the Callidus Assassin firstly could just drop in right next to a unit and attack straight away, but secondly, just having one in your army meant, after deployment, you get to tell your opponent to reposition a unit 6 inches. And it had an Apocalypse formation that makes it longer and specifically lets you turn a vehicle around (back when shooting the rear made it easier to damage them). You could just go "Hey, that formation of three Baneblades? Move in front of the LMR line to block them, then turn around to face your own forces."
The "siren song that moves enemy units" is also done in AoS. Blades of Khorne priests have access to a prayer called Bloodbind that forces the opponent to move a unit up to 8" towards the nearest enemy unit. It's extremely powerful.
If I remember correctly, Bullgryns actually used to have an ability with their shields similar to what you talked about.
I remember a friend at the store playing them and them having an ability that if a couple were in base contact, everything behind them received a cover save.
He loved playing a Leman Russ with camo nets behind them
the whip was used to put units in close formation so your 5" insta-kill template deleted all 10 terminators in one shot
It was so broken
One Page Rules figured out invisibility for assassin's. The Goblins have it on theirs and it's incredibly simple.
It's deep strike that lets you place your assassin within 1" of an enemy unit and then uses a damaging ability on a unit within 3".
But the actual unit is pretty bad and will die quickly to basically anything. It's absolutely amazing if the opponent leaves a unit alone at an objective. It's also a pretty decent "This one thing needs to die and I'm ok with using up 20% of my points to make sure it does" button.
Ot feels like assassination
What you're describing with the StarCraft mothership, is basically the Monolith in the Necrons codex... plus, Hypercrypt Legion, to some extent.
Hell, yay, crime, I mean, oh no crime.
Them: You know what would be cool? Rules for invisibility, and real stealth, and a unit that switches between a movement profile and an attack profile, and the ability to climb walls.
Me: Infinity, what you are describing is Infinity.
Yup, was thinking this too! 😂 ♾️
Nothing says "covert operations" like handing your opponent a "courtesy list" that's just a blank piece of paper.
Hassassin Bahram ARE the faction that everyone memes Alpha Legion as.
I really wanted the "Nydus Canal" idea to be a Detachement for Tyranids, since Jormungandr is the missing Hive-Fleet in the new Codex.
Basically, it'd be a way to play Grey Knights/Hypercrypt Legion with Trygon and Mawlocs. For each of the snakes you bring in your list, you could put a unit in Reserve. Immediately after a Mawloc or Trygon Deep Strikes, you can place a token within 1" of it. That token represents the tunnel left by the Trygon and any unit from Reserve can later enter the field within 3" of that token.
You could even add the ability (or a Stratagem) that lets you move a unit from one tunnel-token to another, within limitation (no charging most likely). Basically, something that lets you make a burrow list and focuses on Tunnelier-Nids. It'd be probably a shit list in terrain heavy scenarios, but it'd certainly fit the theme of Jormungandr.
That sounds super fun, a permanent deployment point would make for interesting games
That was actually just how the Mawlocs and Trygons worked back in 7th/8th. You could deepstrike any tyranid infantry unit alongside them as long as they were wholly within 3" of its base
To be honest that only sounds useful/fun in Floorhammer.
35:02 there is a solution for stealth units, and is giving the player 3 empty bases, but one is marked on the bottom, the player must move the 3 bases and reveal the one marked whenever he decide to take action
That would be the holoecho equipment or decoy skill from the miniature game Infinity
Holoecho and Decoy are fun, I quite like the combination of Decoy and Minelayer.
Basically you're throwing around a bunch of suspicious packages, and your opponent doesn't know which of them are wired to blow.
16:00 "Shoot once, then more with risk attached" is how some Skaven weapons work in WHF. I'm not sure if Orks had something similar at some point, i.e. "roll a D6 for number of shots, you can roll again as often as you want, but on a double something horrible happens".
Clan Skrye still plays the same in AoS. You're hoping to kill your opponents stuff before you kill yourself.
CSM actually have a sacrifice ability right now: Masters of Possession can stab their friends to get a bonus on their psychic attacks.
The jamming/overloading guns idea would be really cool for Vashtorr or other dark AdMech adjacent units who are meant to be technology-cursing units, too.
The invisibility is a mechanic for alpha legion in HH. Literally exactly that, not interactable until it attacks. Super flavorful since they are disguised as the enemy army. Fun too
I'm a big fan of the way Infinity does Stealth. Your opponent looks away when you set up the model. You take a picture if it, then take the model back off the table
For those who are curious this is a mechanic called Hidden Deployment which is different to Camouflage, which is where you place a marker of an appropriate size as a proxy for a model until they reveal what they are. Coincidentally, a model could have both Hidden Deployment and Camo!
And because this is infinity, the model will probably _also_ have stealth, but that just limits how people can react if you cautious move inside 8" of them. Oddly despite having approximately 3 squillion skills, it doesn't have a "can't be shot outside of X". The closest it gets is (the three kinds of) smoke it has.
Oh and don't forget impersonation (deploy a model in enemies DZ, they can't touch it until it either does something hostile or you pass a discover check).
Camo markers are great in Infinity, they're great in 40k, they're just great.
For stealthy assasins, I love my Haqqislam for Infinity.
For controlling opponent models, theres a fun rule in Horus Heresy if you play as mechanicus. Its essentially an old style psychic check and if you pass you can shoot with an enemy vehicle. Afterwards the vehicle gains the "hatred" rule against the caster because the machine spirit is offended.
Some Haqqislam models can disguise themselves as a different Haqqislam model.
One Haqqislam model, the Hassassin Friday, can disguise itself as an ENEMY model, and your opponent's models need to pass WIP checks to spot the deception.
You can use a disguised Fiday as protection from template weapons like grenades and flamethrowers, because models will refuse to use them if they risk hitting a "friendly."
I was just thinking surely you can do something with hidden deployment ala Infinity in 40k. Would require a huge amount of balancing, but could be done
Meanwhile in AoS skaven can literally give ANY enmy unit in the game rabies(you get to fight with them against their own units) including arcaheon which is really funny if you pull it off.
i love the smell of poorhamer in the morning
They should steal the might and fate mechanic from Mesbg to make heroes less reliable on rerolls and invulnsaves. (For those who don't know might points can be used to improve a dice roll by one. So a hero with 2 might points could turn a 4 into a 6 if they want to, making heroes a lot more reliable without ridiculous stats.
Might Will Fate are great.
Your Captain can survive getting hammered by a troll on a 4+... once. Or you can survive it on a 2+, but that spends the resource you WANTED to use later for Heroic Combat (fight first).
Lots of RPG's have burnable points to improve dice rolls. Applying it to 40k heroes could definitely be interesting.
The original Space Hulk did an area denial move with flamers - if you set a square ablaze then the genestealers wouldn't be able to enter it for a turn.
So all you need is flamers 😁
The Slaanesh ability was... I think it was called Lash of Torment. And it just lets you move the enemy unit however you want, except you *can't* walk them off the board and can't move them into impassable terrain or instantly lethal terrain. However you can move them into or out of charge range, out of cover, where they can't reach anyone with their heavy weapons, or simply into difficult or dangerous terrain - it's fine to walk them through mine fields where each model has a 1/6 chance of taking a single wound (invulnerable saves apply). The regular "you failed a Morale check?" thing is the one where they run towards their own board edge and, if they reach it, they're "dead".
Stealing someones gun or vehicle wpuld be a very Vashtor thing to do. It would be a cool ability if he was within lets say 12in of an enemy vehicle he can use a psychic attack to control that vehicle and shoot from it.
"A line attack which decreases in strength" that's a bolt thrower from WHFB.
So many good ideas. Shame some of them are too random to be allowed into the meta. They would be fun for beerhammer though.
Did not expect Final Fantasy XI to get a shout out on a warhammer podcast. Best game ever and corsair is the best job ever.
PUP > Anything else, but true enough. COR is in the pool of both of our 99s still.
"Recall" used to be a Necrons thing. Pick an infantry unit and re-deploy it in front of your monolith. Roll your "get back up" roll for that infantry unit again.
As for the named Two-Shield Bullgryn idea, you could have them treated as an Imperial Agent that can attach to any unit so long as it is attached to either the Warlord or an Epic Hero. Make them T6 W7 Sv3+ Inv4+ and give them a basic S4 D1 "shield bash" attack, but they can take the hit for any precision attacks made against the unit.
18:30
In 2nd edition I had the most epic moment.
There was a spell that opened two portals. There were cardboard standees for them.
And you could enter one to exit the other.
So my Bloodclaw bikers all charged trough to attack a lone sorcerer. And... The sorcerer killed 5 bikers in one turn, and moveing bikes in 2nd edition speed of into the distance like a missile (which you rolled to skatter a bit).
I lost horribly on the move. But it. Was. Awsome!
Creep option
A unit creates a tumor on deployment, then at the start of your command phase, you create another tumor in 6" of each tumor. Each one gives a buff to units with a specific keyword, so you can restrict certain bonuses.
Tumors could also be changed to a different structure token that could be done for different factions, like data towers or relays for most other groups
I could see replicating Synapse creatures serving that purpose?
Or wi-fi routers for the AdMech, taking a leaf from Infinity.
Always nice watching and knowing how cool things were in older editions, and now we have 10th. Also dark angels in the heresy get the "cytheron pattern aegis" for deathwing companions, gives the whole unit an invulnerable save but 2 models need to have them
On the part of making a point to point highway for units, this can easily be put on something like a trygon (it literally says in the unit lore that it makes tunnels that other tyranid beasts can exploit). Add a rule to it like allowing units in strategic reserves to come in for where the trygon popped out from, with the same rules the trygon has for doing this.
I think a few of these exist in AoS actually.
Khorne has a prayer called 'blood bind' that forces a unit to move closer to the chanter.
And the hunters of Huanchi (chameleon's) can go in and out of ambush throughout the game, when they are in ambush they leave the board, then can pop up the subsequent turn
Funnily enough Tau also had the siege tank mechanic with the Broadside... In Dawn of War. It had to entrench to use its Railguns.
33:19 WHFB had assassins in rank and file units. The assassins were pants wettingly strong and would appear in the front rank of a squad when they charged/were charged. Goblin Fanatics were a version of this that would fly out of a squad when an enemy was close. (Fanatics were goblins wielding a ball on a chain heavier than the goblin) they would spin around towards the enemy unit at first but in sub sequent turns they would move randomly or “get squashed” by their weapon.
In 40K the model could appear in coherence with the host squad or replace one of the squad members. That way the assassin could be visible and hidden. You’d need to have a sealed envelope or something to stop the player just saying the assassin was in whatever unit they wanted when it was convenient.
Speaking of "one character many bodies," Infinity has a few versions of this.
"Peripherals" are the most straightforward, they're basically RC drones. A common use would be a Doctor sending out a Peripheral to try and save a downed trooper, instead of the Doctor running out on their own and risking getting shot.
The really scary one is Jumper, representing one consciousness operating multiple bodies. Very complex but in return you get one "guy" that's effectively in 3 (or more) places at once. The downside is that extra bodies don't grant extra activations, so you'll have to ration out the activations you have very carefully.
Somebody I miss, is transforming enemy models.
I loved the "Gift of Chaos" in 8th edition, turning enemies into Chaos Spawns.
One of my favourite was "book of the reviler" which gave your own CHaracter 2 random abilities, or turned them into either a chaos spawn or a Daemon Prince
My favourite was always that in every game, Tervigon's create broods of Termagaunts and heal other units, wish these were a feature. Tyranids have very few support units, and they could be amazing for that.
Both Mind Control and Stealth Kill are available in Infinity as Sepsitor and Impersonation as well as Hidden Deployment. Oh and Smoke is a very important part of the game with it's own mini game with some models being able to see through it.
The main issue with Infinity’s Camo and Stealth mechanics is that it’s an ambush mechanic that relies on noting the location of the model ahead of time and then revealing the note to your opponent when you activate the unit. Interestingly enough though, it’s almost completely outside the game as it’s not factored in to any mechanic that uses existence of models as part of the rule (reactive actions, order count, objective control, and not even model obstruction, I think) until the player chooses to activate the unit, or the opponent succeeds in detecting it with an action. Keep in mind that Infinity is closer to a true skirmish game with a hard model cap of 20 (plus drone-like multiple model units which can slightly break the cap), and it plays a lot with reactive actions - every model in LOS can react to a model’s action - so it might not translate well to 40k. To put it in perspective, games can take roughly the same amount of time in both systems, but Infinity is a 3 turn game.
The entire time you were discussing “stealth kill” mechanics I couldn’t stop yelling “Infinity the Game” at the screen as though you would somehow hear it. The mechanic exists in that system almost exactly as you spit balled it. The basic form is “camouflage” where you can’t be attacked until you remove yourself from the camouflage state. There’s also a more advanced form called “hidden deployment” where the model isn’t even on the table until it springs its ambush.
Infinity is a really fun game system I highly recommend.
as for nydus canals technically you have seen it in 40k before in Dawn of War I's imperial guard; all their garisonable buildings are connected to a tunnel network that allows them to transport troops 3 squads at a time with a 10 second cooldown
For the tunnels idea I wonder if making it a transport vehicle could help make it more viable. You can load it up and at the end of your turn you can start to burrow the vehicle can burrow a certain distance and has an effect like the burrowing Tyranids where it surfaces. The model could come with a marker to show the entrance to the tunnel and the transport could "open" like a drop ship and become ruins or some other kind of terrain for your guys to use. The transport could force enemies to close to the exit point back a distance as well.
This isn't too far from how the Termite drill works, but it's Legends in 10e
Thanks for the video.
Re: Line attack: Veteran Guard in Kill Team have a set of special attacks which are air strikes, one of them is a line attack strafing run.
Greatest feeling when people line up and you get that off. Not super effective, but very fun
One idea that I’ve come to adore from watching Conquest: Last Argument of Kings videos from Play On Tabletop is that of unit weight classes, making reinforcements less optional and more of a core facet of the game flow.
Basically in Conquest each unit is assigned a weight class from Light to Medium to Heavy. For reference’s sake, in Imperial Guard, basic Infantry Squads would be considered a light unit, Kasrkin/Ogryn would be Medium, and a Leman Russ would be Heavy. Each turn, you have to roll to see which of your units are able to enter the battlefield, but Medium and Heavy units flat-out cannot enter the battlefield until rounds 2 and 3 respectively.
This helps immensely with what I’ve always seen as one of Warhammer’s core feelsbad issues: bringing a big cool unit and having it focused down before you even have a chance to pose it as a threat. Early game can keep its focus on jockeying for board control, rather than having to bundle up all your valuable units behind a big rock out of fear of your opponent’s 400-point mega unit getting first turn and deleting half your heavy hitters in one fell swoop.
Obviously it’d require some finesse to incorporate into a game like 40K (not every model type corresponds neatly to Conquest’s weight class system), but I feel like the benefits are absolutely worth it. Plus it fits into the theming of two massive army forces coming to bear as the battle escalates from skirmish into full-fledged annihilation.
Ork gambling:
Stratagem: "Mora Dakka!"
2cp
One ork unit.
All ranged weapons equipped by the unit gain hazardous this turn. Roll a d3, and add the result to the attacks characteristic of all ranged weapons equipped by that unit this turn.
Tunnel unit could just be the Nid Raveners, who's whole lore thing is making tunnels for gaunts. Give it an ability to go into reserves, creating an opening where it does, and then where it comes out of reserves, via deepstrike or whatever, it creates another opening. For balance, only one non-monster unit can go through the tunnel each turn, or maybe a model cap so you could do multiple small units or one big unit.
It's ok, Brad. When I was watching Dune pt2, and during the whole Feyd Rautha b-day fight, my mind immediately went to 40k of "this is probably the best interpretation of Drukhari we'll ever get."
But that sequence in general was just so amazing. I literally felt like I was transported into a different reality when viewing it on IMAX.
The “two shields dude” could REALLY fit Votann. The champion’s RAM shields would be cool to use, as they have Bolters built into them and have a great shape design. Or give them plasma shields like I’ve been hoping we’ll see. But even moreso, they care so much about each other’s lives that I could easily see a trained specialist Kin who’s entire job it is to interdict himself between enemies and allies.
Again, with the siege tank, I think that fits Votann way more, and I was actually hoping they’d have a tank with that aesthetic.
Why do you keep forgetting Votann lmao.
Your Black Jack Idea is just World Eaters.
Which is why world eaters are great
It just does lack any kind of push your luck element, which is the most crucial part of black jack...or gambling in general.
4:45 - Inquisitor in 8th edition had a psychic power that was essentially mind-controlling a unit for the shooting phase.
Genestealer cults could also do that with a magus
Idea for a sniper mechanic… Instead of deploying the unit, you place three small token markers on the battlefield (they must be “in cover”). The face up side of the token is a generic icon for stealth units. Two of the face down sides are blank, and one has a crosshair to indicate the actual location of your sniper. Snipers have almost no movement and/or they can only fire their precision rifle if they did not move the previous turn. Sniper units are invisible/untargetable until they are revealed. Units are revealed if they fire their weapon or if an enemy unit is with 1-2 inches of them and on the same vertical plane. An enemy could try to use mortar type weapons to bomb the area where your sniper “might” be, but can’t be sure if the unit has not yet been revealed.
Camouflage works a bit like this in the game Infinity! Camo tokens might be hiding a decoy, or a landmine, or an enemy soldier.
32:24
A good analogy is what they did with Dark Elf Assassins, you write down a unit the assassin is hiding in and then have them pop out to try and kill a HVT at a point of your choosing.
32:04 I need a moment to...
I just need a moment. 😂
The "assassinate out of stealth" mechanic would work fine as a flavor for a 3" Deep Strike unit, or maybe 6" if you wanted to give an easier charge but not a guaranteed one. Genestealer Cults basically already have this with deep strike representing units traveling through tunnels and a strat for 3" deep strike though it doesn't allow a charge.
I’d love to see a sombra type ability where you can hack enemy units and just delete their unit ability for a turn. It would be cool for admech or crons. Also I NEED a character that’s literally just titanfall. A guy who can call down a mech for one turn, add eject and everything. That shit would be dope.
Stuff to add
- Dropping LoS blockers like a wall of smoke for a turn, to cover your advance
- Damage types, doesn't need to be very many of them, but I'd like the Avatar to be immune to Flamers and Melta again
- Time rewind: place a marker on a unit's location, once per game you can return to that marker
- Terrain manipulation: move terrain, remove the cover bonus, curse it with a debuff, etc etc
Stuff to bring back:
- Armor facings for vehicles (not complicated, rewards smart/risky plays)
- Psychic (duh)
- Each faction hating another faction (Eldars used to get -1 Ld when near Slaanesh units)
Stuff to remove
- any mechanic that modifies dice rolls based on "below starting strength/below half strength" (hate slow-rolling)
10:20 Lash of Slaneesh: it had an 18 inch range and it let you move them up to 12 inches depending on how good you rolled. So you would bring two demon princes with wings, move 12 inches then chain together the two movement and throw the best enemy units into a double demon prince blender every turn. It was... really fair haha.
X-wing did stealth by making the target harder to hit and when it dropped stealth it could be moved anywhere within a radius before moving to show you were tracking it but not perfectly. You could also go back into stealth as an action.
Letting you shell-game the model is pretty cool, as well. 3 tokens but only 1 is real.
I feel like you guys need to play aos, A LOT of these ideas are represented. Khorne can pull units, Skaven can control a unit's fighting, Nydus worms work with both gnawholes and Soulscream Bridge, Prismatic Palisade as a movement forcefield
Kill team also has a piercing shot type thing in space dwarves where units in a line that arent the primary target get d3 mws
Creep is very similar to the Power Matrix for Canoptec Courts in Necrons.
The easy way to do it is, it's always in your deployment zone and moves up x inches depending on the number of objectives you control and gives a stacking buff to move and OC based on how much of the board is covered.
The admech has a weapon hijacking ability ( 47:07 ), its called the "Lord of Machines" enhancement in the Cybernetica Cohort detachment. It can decrease or deny shooting outright dependent on the result of a leadership test(only applies to vehicles).
In Horus Heresy, Alpha Legion has a character with that invisibility mechanic! It's called the Saboteur, and its ability "False Flag" makes it so it can walk around wherever it wants and is immune to shooting (although not charging) until after it makes its first shot with its sniper rifle.
The wall, is awesomely done in Samurai Jack in the spartan episode where he uses two shields.
My idea for a t’au melee battlesuit was the “wavebreaker” a defensive suit focused on absorbing charges.
5:58 It also existed with the "dominate" psychic power that inquisitors could have in 9th. i enjoyed pointing it at a powerful melee infantry character and forcing them to blend their bodyguard squad.
The Necron Monolith is an example of how a "nidus canal" could work in 10e. In your Movement Phase, the Monolith can teleport a friendly unit to it, either from elsewhere on the battlefield OR pulling said unit directly from reserves.
A Nidus Canal could work similarly to that? When you activate the NC, units in reserves can choose to "disembark" from it.
I'm piggybacking on the Embark/Disembark rules because they cover a bunch of stuff like "what if there's no room for the models" and "how close can you be to the enemy?"
Stuff "embarked" in the NC goes to reserves. You can have units enter one NC and exit from another in the same phase, though they wouldn't be able to move after exiting the second tunnel. You could also "embark" a unit into reserves and just have them come in from reserves as normal.
For the shield guy, you could give it a round of movement blocking within an area, but some huge units or maybe teleporters can appear within the force area.
But it doesn't block shooting, so you can try to shoot it off the map, and then you can charge, or move if you have a move shoot move (or doombolt it away then temporal surge)
47:10 We actually already have weapon jamming, the Genestealer Cults magus can pick an enemy near them and on a 2+ the enemy gets -1 to hit while shooting and if the magos rolls a 6 the enemy unit can't shoot at all that turn (I think one or two other factions have something similar but I can't remember). We also already have the hazardous thing, Magnus can pick one of three abilities at the start of the battle round and one of those gives an enemy unit of your choice hazardous on all their guns for the turn.
Glad to see FFXI get a shoutout. I'm still chasing the high of the feeling that game gave me even though the gameplay loop was genuinely trash- hours and hours of grinding the same mobs just to gain one level.
The overload thing used to exist for Tau. It was a 2pt upgrade for a Crisis Commander and you gave a unit within 12" Gets Hot (ie hazardous for new players). One of the most hilarious upgrades you could get.
Holy heck, the first thing i thought about when the piercing shot was brought up was the tau stormsurge model. Giant titanic model? Check. Giant cannon designed for ships that canonically punches through even knight armor? Check (it's even strength 24). EXACTLY 400 POINTS AND PROBABLY DOESNT DO MUCH? CHECK!Its literally the perfect model for this ability, GET ON IT GW!!!
The "recall" ability - and even the "summon guys out of portal" - are just the necron monolith and night scythe abilities.
The "cause hazardous on weapons" is what the necron hypercrypt stratagem "entropic dampening" does (although it's rather specific)
Honestly, Rubrics sacrificing tzaangors sounds like a good use for that unit
Gives everyone a reason to use those models. Sac 1 for attacking buffs and Sac 2 for recovery/defense
The peircing shot idea was a gimmick of Votan at the end of 9th, where you could just slap a, 18" S8 AP-3 D2 beam on your basic infantry and hit large swathes of enemy units with a single 3+. the land fortress could also take a heavy version of that with 24" range and up to 4 S7 AP-2 versions.
Eldar have the webway gate, make a smaller one and have a rule that has to be actived by a unit and then it can only let through a 5 man unit per round. So that you can keep for example your backline unit hidden till almost the end and then make some moves with it
on the note of invisibility/stealth: i loved the space hulk mechanic where the tyranid player moved radar blip markers around the board. those are turned around when the space marine player had line of sight and a given number of tyranids would spawn.
not too sure if it's in all editions, but as far as i can remember, some of those blips could have a value of 0, up to 3 (dont quote me on that).
that way the space marine player could see the tyranid player move around, but couldnt tell if its a feint or not
I remember the tabletop gane turnip28 a faction ability called gluttony where whenever a unit makes a shooting attack before anything is rolled you can sacrifice a model in that unit to add 4 additional shooting attacks, and this can be done however many times you want so long as it doesn't kill every model. Something similar to that could work really well for sisters or some of the chaos factions.
Make a part 2 of this, this was too good!
Also the one tau unit controlling multiple drones existed in dawn of war. It was called a drone harbinger, basically a hammerhead chassis with a swarm of drones instead of a gun.
And imo the recall mechanic works best for something Eldar because of their webway shenanigans. Makes sense, since the protoss were originally supposed to be craftworlders.
The piercing shot that goes "model to table edge" was implemented exactly as you described on the Ordinatus Ulator in 30k admech.
re: siege tanks - the Tau Broadside worked like that in Dawn of War 1, you could set it up and get its railguns to shoot basically halfway across the map. And as for real stealth, I think they could steal the blip mechanic from Space Hulk. Say a unit goes invisible, set up a number of blip tokens, and only one of them represents the real unit. You can move them around separately, they can be shot at, but the opponent doesn't know which is which until they do damage/get close enough.
Add Aeonid Thiel for Ultramarines, when you kill a unit, you can choose a melee profile from the killed unit to use for the Thiel until the end of battle.
He's a 30k model, yes?
15:50 in 8th csm has a spell called gift of chaos that when the targeted unit kills an enemy unit it gains a random buff on a 12 it summons a demon prince and on a 2 it turns him into a chaose spawn
20:00 What you would do is you would make the first part be the entrance that goes into your deployment zone the second part into deep strike that must come in on turn two or later no special rules and enemy units can also move through, you would also give it a special rule where units can embark and disembark once per turn and must do so
22:00 Me every time there was a time where you could put multiple upgrades on a tau unit, and you know I put two shield gens on 1 model
with the nydus worm thing, tyranid trygons used to do this (before GW decided they hated fun), they could place a tunnel down when they arrived from deepstrike and from that point on your strategic reserves could come from the tunnel instead of the board edge, with some limitations of course
Make the nydus worm thing function more like transports - both endpoints of the teleport are units themselves, but instead of 'embarking', if you end your move within 3 of one, you can pick up the unit and immediately set it up within 3 of another one. The units themselves could either be fast scouts to get around, fascilitate a move, then die, or could be slower but kinda tough themselves
10:25 I LOVE the siren song idea
The dark eldar used to have a chain grab ability, I think it was the guys on the goblin gliders. I love the corsair ability idea too. I could see it working for Harlequins too.
From Battletech: levels of optional rules. The obvious one that would be very popular would be to bring back the granularity of equipment points. I suspect a lot of experienced players would LOVE to get that back. Another obvious one for me that would be great as a "level 2" rule is optional ammunition for Battlecannons (ex. the Battlecannon on the SoB Castigator).
In General:
Level 1: Index rules that are free from the start of the edition, and very suitable for casual games for your friends.
Level 2: Aimed at advanced players and competitive.
Level 3: Again aimed at Casual and Narrative games, swingy, FUN effects, very lore friendly rules for units, NOT for tournament play.
20:00 this sounds like the old 'The gate' psyic power.
You could place the entrance and the exit anywhere within 12 inches as long as both ends are within 18 of each other.
any model moving into one gate emedaly emeges from the other but you can't trace Squad coherancy or LOS through the gate.
28:00 Already exsists for Necrons.
For your point in "jamming guns" Lord Discordant on Helstalker has something of that sort where he picks a mech in 12 if they fail a leadership check they dont fire at all in the shoot phase and if they pass its -1 to hit
37:48 Believe to an extent that is the role intended in 10th for the Malcador and the Macharius tanks for Guard (not as"bag-o-guns-ish" as the Rogal Dorn, but tougher). They just need to get the points/balance for those right.
Both Sisters and AdMech need a large-ish tank for that role.
A cool mechanic (that might have already been done in the past and I don't know) for a shooty unit is every hit roll of a 6 allows that many hits to be rolled against the closest unit within 6" to it.
For the making terrain/obstacles for units, i feel like a hazardous terrain would work (which i know exists in some forms already).
Something simple like the unit/character designates an area (probably 3-6 inch in diameter) and units can't start/end a movement there (so can't deepstrike there, end advance/charge), so they either need to go through it completely in one go or move up to it, then through it next turn. Maybe its obscuring/cover so shooters on the other side don't get too big of an advantage.
Another cool idea would be for a battleline unit to be able to set up cover or a 1-wound barricade when on an objective. I know lots of units have rules that give bonuses when on objective anyway, but I like the idea of setting up little barricade models like in Kill Team.