Sure, the Vehicle Keyword means Crisis suits need to go around terrain, theoretically, but I think it's worth mentioning that pretty much everything in T'au (except Fire Warriors or Kroot) does have Fly, so there's options going around that Terrain.
The option is basically if it's a 4" tall ruin it might be slightly more efficient to go over it but for any other terrain height it means you need to go around it for the best movement. On top of that for crisis suits they've lost auto advance 6" which mitigated a lot of the issues they have going over terrain
Dude must not be giving himself enough time to sleep for the past year with the endless stream of videos that he makes. We are all a slight bit worried. And it's a good meme at this point
A small correction on the Broadside Battlesuit. It is T6, not T8, making it quite vulnerable to Plasma weaponry and even mass bolter fire. Also, a thing to consider, if you take 2 of them in a unit, you have at least 16 wounds, meaning more VP potential for the opponent. The Stormsurge is not a Battlesuit, so it wont benefit from Battlesuit keyword things(Retaliation Cadre). If you are using it in Kauyon, you can use it as an Observer, then use the Coordinate to Engage stratagem to give it +1 BS, allowing it to split fire without taking the massive accuracy penalty(the penalty is only for units that are Guided). If done during Kauyon, you even get sustained Hits 1(2 vs your spotted target). Similar is true for the Ta'unar. The Sky Ray Gunship is another unit that kind of shines in Kauyon. Because it keeps the same damage output throughout(unlike the Hammerhead), it really shines when it starts to get Sustained Hit 1 or 2. Being able to act as decent Observer with the Markerlight keyword means it is a great candidate for Coordinate to Engage(+1 BS and ignores Cover if the unit has the Markerlight keyword, when shooting at the Spotted target).
So would you sky ray gunship is good or no? I have like 3-4 Kits to build and I dunno if I want two basic hammer head and two sky rays, or if the other canon variant is a good choice? I’ve never played a single game so I dunno what to expect or what I want. Just that I am trying to balance my army to fight any opponent. Melee, heavy tanks, flying threats, etc. I hear sky rays are useful, it should I make 2 and 2 hammer heads? or what would you advise?
@@elitetrooper119 Sky Ray Gunships are pretty good. Consistent damage output against both vehicles and elite infantry. Even better if the opponent has some units with the Flying keyword(reroll hit rolls for all your weapons). They are also, currently, slightly cheaper in points compared to Hammerhead Gunships, but that might change(used to be the opposite). Hammerhead Gunships with a Railgun have excellent damage vs vehicles and monsters, but after they have used their one-shot Seeker Missiles, they only have that 1 shot from the Railgun per turn as a threat against those targets. It still hits very hard and is a serious threat(even 2+ save cant stop this shot), but an unlucky roll to hit or wound(or Invulnerable save), even if it rarely happens, can result in zero damage being done at a critical moment. Hammerhead Gunships with Ion Cannons are a bit "middle of the road" for most detachments, but are quite good if you play Mont'ka. They still have 2 one-shot Seeker Missiles to help out with vehicles and monsters, but otherwise the S8 of the Ion Cannon is not a good tool against such targets(great vs various infantry though). But in Mont'ka, if you guide the Hammerhead, it has Lethal on all attacks, which can make the Ion Cannon deal somewhat consistent damage even against high toughness targets. So my recommendation depends on what detachment you want to use the most. All variations can be quite good, depending on what you are fighting and what other tools you have available in your army. If I were you, I would make 1 of each and wait with the 4th model. They will all be decent value. Use them for a couple matches, get a feel for their performance against different threats and tactics, then decide if you want a 4th tank(and what it should be).
@@fendelphi Thanks. I appreciate the advice. What are the differences of Combat styles for the Tau? Mont’ka etc? I only thought that was lore stuff not actual table top related.
@@elitetrooper119 I can give you a quick rundown, but I suggest you check the Wahapedia(warhammer wikipedia) and check out the different detachments and their effects. Mont'ka gives your entire army assault weapons for the first 3 turns(can advance and still shoot). It also provides Lethal Hits(automatic wound when rolling a critical hit) to the ranged attacks for units that are Guided(For the Greater Good mechanic), again the first 3 turns. Mont'ka focuses on high mobility and damage output for the first 3 turns to take control of the pacing. Kauyon is the opposite. From turn 3 onwards(so 3, 4 and 5), the entire army gets sustained hits 1(critical hits counts as 2 hits instead of 1). When using For the Greater Good to Guide a unit, both the Guided unit and Observer unit gets sustained hits 2(critical hits counts as 3 hits instead of 1) against the targeted(Spotted) unit. Kauyon focuses on a powerful counter-attack/ambush strategy, where you set up defensively for the first 2 turns(to preserve forces), then attack at full force from turn 3 onwards. Retaliation Cadre is focused on Battlesuits. All its benefits have something to do with the Battlesuits of the Tau(Crisis, Stealth Suits, Commanders, Broadsides, Ghostkeel, Riptide). A Battlesuit that shoots at an enemy within 12" gets +1 to the strength of their ranged weaponry. If within 6" of an enemy, they get an extra point of AP as well. The detachment focuses on bringing a very large amount of various battlesuits and engage at close quarters. The final detachment is the Kroot Hunting Pack. This detachment focuses exclusively on the various Kroot units, both increasing their damage potential and survivability. Kroot units in your army gets a +1 to hit if the enemy unit is below its starting strength(lost a model or a wound). They also get +1 to Wound if it is below half starting strength. Both of these benefits work with ranged and melee attacks. This means that you typically bring a couple of Tau heavy firepower units to "crack open" the enemy, then have your Kroot horde finish them off. The defensive part is that all Kroot models gets a 6+ Invulnerable save against melee attacks, and 5+ Invulnerable save against ranged attacks, making them surprisingly durable. If you are bringing 3-4 tanks(20-25% of your entire army), you are probably looking more towards Mont'ka or Kauyon than the other two, although it is not set in stone or anything. Afterall, they do bring heavy firepower no matter the detachment. It is just that they get the most benefit themselves in either Mont'ka or Kauyon.
So, since the folks at GW took the time to lump the Votann into the Xenos camp, and not the Imperium list, where their forces might've done mercenary work for the Guard, or Sisters, it's too bad they didn't leave open a path for allied Demiurg to field with the Tau. I'm not even saying Tau need the help, but one of the big lore bits for them is their Federation of other Xenos clients, and while we get two of them, this very video sort of spells out how meh either the Vespids, or even the Kroot, can be, so it's too bad it's not an option here to let some Votann team up with the Tau, or maybe even vice versa, since the Votann line is still a bit light, and does have its own shortcomings.
Random comment that it took me *faaar* too long to realise that Tau are the 40k analogy to the *Lizardmen* from Fantasy, with their caste system and direction from above etc.
Re: Crisis Suits - they have fly and can fly over terrain. Starscythe flamers make great guiding units since they don't need to be guided. Put a Marker Drone on them.
I think an interesting idea for the stormsurge wanting to split fire problem would be to let it be guided by more than one unit. at least one other. It would use up another unit for guiding which would be a decent trade off. That way its guns can shoot at what it wants to shoot without a penalty. Alternatively the way I use mine I just don't guide it and stick shadowsun next to it for the reroll of wound rolls of 1.
I’d prefer them to be fleshed out and the tau have a space marine guard relation with the other species for no other reason than people come to tau for suits and tank ascetics kroot don’t really follow that id prefer more “on brand options”
always great to see a video on Tau, Broadsides are T6 not T8. i do love my Kroot, enjoy playing them and they are rather durable with their detachment, stealth, scout and FNP from flesh shaper.
Still low damage for the point cost(2 Fusion Collider shots for 160 pts compared to 3 Seeker Missiles with wound reroll from a 140 pts Sky Ray). But the Fusion Collider does have a role to play and can do what it sets out to do. It is just not a high "damage dealer".
@@fendelphi It's a high damage dealer considering the consistency. Nobody's dealing with the 2 Ghostkeel + Shadowsun castle on turn 1 or 2, maybe not even 3. A Skyray or a Hammerhead is an easier target. Even if the GK+Shadowsun combo is meant to be up front, really aggressive. Piranha screening also helps.
@@Vinterloft It is still not high damage. You are paying 420 pts for 2 Ghostkeels and Shadowsun, while having far less damage output compared to a unit of Sunforges(6 Fusion Blasters) and a Coldstar combo(about 250 pts total). You might get lucky and take out a tank in a single turn that way(on average, half the shots will fail to deal damage), but that might only be worth around 200 pts. For the Fusion Collider to deal damage, you need to get within 18" of a target, and within 9" if you want actual consistency(otherwise, you might be rolling 1 or 2 for damage). If you want to take advantage of Retaliation Cadre buffs, you need to be within 12". Unlike Crisis Suits, the Ghostkeel cant deep strike in, so they have to walk/fly up the board, making it very obvious what is going to happen. A lot of armies can easily absorb 4-6 shots from 9-12" range(2x Fusion Collider Ghostkeel+Shadowsun), then close into melee in the following turn(Ghostkeel cant negate melee damage nearly as effectively, as neither stealth nor the drones help there). What you are paying for, is being immune to cross map fire support while you move in and deal damage at close range. It is a scalpel tool. It can hit the target you need it to, but it wont deal high amounts of damage turn after turn when you look at what you are paying for(especially if what is attacking you is hordes of infantry).
@@fendelphi Fusion Blasters hit a brick wall against much lower toughness targets than collider, especially in retaliation cadre. It's one of the worst Tau weapons, the only reason Piranhas are good despite using them are the seeker missiles for alpha
@@Vinterloft Sunforges reroll wound roll and damage roll against vehicles and monsters. They also confer that bonus to whatever weaponry their Commander is bringing. So out of 6 Fusion Blasters, roughly 3 will wound on average even against T14. By Comparison, a Ghostkeel will fail to wound T13 or T14 1/3 of the time, and against a T12 target, half the time, so they can only realistically expect 1 wound of the 2 shots(that is assuming both hit as well). Even against T10 and T11, you are far from guarateed 2 wounds. If we can expect 3 wounds from a unit of Sunforges no matter if it is T10 or T14, and only hope for 2 wounds from the Ghostkeel, we then move onto the actual damage. The Fusion Collider is D6+Melta(if within melta range). If we succesfully wound twice, that means we can expect 6-16 damage, if within melta range. Average expected damage within melta range is 11 damage, which is not enough to take out most heavy vehicles. 3 Fusion Blasters from the Sunforges deal between 9 and 24 damage, and can reroll the damage roll against monsters and vehicles. As such, the expected damage roll within melta range is roughly 18 damage. So the damage output of a single Ghostkeel is substantially lower than a unit of Sunforges, so long as we are talking about shooting into vehicles and monsters. What about if we are shooting into regular spacemarines? Well, the Sunforges get 6 shots, each of them wounding on a 2+. The Ghostkeel get 2 shots, each of them wounding on a 2+. Sunforges are also much better at dealing with marines. And the same is true against Terminators and other elite units(you simply have 2-3x as many shots). Finally, we have "application". The Fusion Collider has 18" range, while the Fusion Blaster only has 12". But Sunforges can Deep Strike as close as 3" in Retaliation Cadre, making it overall much easier to deliver their damage where it is needed(very easy to get within Melta range). In Retaliation Cadre, they also become S10 when within 12"(which is their max range anyway), and suddenly they are wounding a lot of tanks, walkers and transports on a 4+, still with a reroll to wound, making them far, far superior to the Ghostkeel in terms of damage. The reason why Piranhas take the Piranha Fusion Blaster, is in case of a "hail Mary" going through and doing serious damage(Melta 4). 1 shot only has 1/3 chance of that happening. But if you have 2 of them in a unit, and you are affected by Kauyon, you might suddenly see 4 shots going off. That is a lot of potential damage. It is also quite effective for taking out lone elite models and light transports when within melta range.
Not correct. The support systems allows it to ignore modifiers to the Hit Roll(-1 to hit etc.). Split Firing while Guided is a Ballistic Skill(BS) penalty(it changes your BS from a standard 4+ to 5+). It does not modify your hit roll. The way "To Hit" works, is that you have a "success state"(your BS value). In this case, it is usually 4+. A -1 to hit modifier means that your dice roll become 1 worse. A 4 becomes a 3, and so it no longer meets your "success state" value of 4+. That is what you can ignore with the Support System ability. The Split Fire penalty from being Guided sets your "Success State" to 5+. It is not a roll modifier, but the actual goal that has changed.
I have found a strike team plus tidewall shield thing impenetrable in casual games. It's not particularly good for defense as opposed to zoning. You can completely block off areas depending on map layouts. My friends and I have fun with it. Don't use it in tournaments 😅
Firesight really depends on your opponent, I have played him in my list against necrons to pick off characters that give 5+ feel no pain buffs, make sure he's placed at height to gain plunging fire for +1 AP and he does quite well! Softens up a unit of wraiths for the breachers to swoop in
Rampagers are very underrated they should be an 8/10 even outside the Hunting pack. I use them in Retaliation and they are extremely effective right up there with Broadsides, Sunforge units in effectiveness. Heroic Intervention means they deal out a massive amount of mortal wounds before combat starts. Rapid Ingress or reserves is a major problem for an opponent. Lance/Sustain + high volume of Mortals wounds means they do have high damage output on targets with high saves and high toughness. My Rampagers have killed Mortarion and C'tan on charge.
As someone who has never played Warhammer, it looks like the Tau are constantly being pushed away from being a long ranged army and more a close fighting, gamey army. You can’t just sit in the back and blaze away from safety, now you need to get close because you’re weapons are only effective up close.
To all those better schooled than me, who can answer me this, its stated that while a leader is attached to a unit it counts as part of that unit. Now the commanders abilities clearly state they only activate when leading a unit but for say the sunforge suits theirs just say "this unit" which i guess rules as written the attached commander is a part of and would also get the reroll wound and dmg against monsters and vehicles, i cant find it specifically faq'd and its to convoluted for google, because also would a starscythes battlesuit systems also affect the commander without having to take one themselves? thanks to all who read and any who venture to answer ;)
What part of the Ethereal let’s them generate command points when in reserves? I’ve tried looking and I can’t find the ruling for that anywhere, but it sounds like something that would actually make me want to take them in my games a lot more
It's just part of core rules. Abilities still work while units are in reserves. Do note, though, that it's not the case when being in a transport. For some reason GW decided that units in transports don't exist at all.
I'm a new Tau player, got a squad of Stealth suits, a Commander battlesuit, a squad of Crisis battlesuits and a Broadside. What 1 unit should I add to this army?
Either Pathfinders or a unit of Fire Warrior Strike Team. Currently, you have only 1 dedicated Observer(Stealth Suits) and 2 units that wants to be guided. Both units have good range and are fairly cheap in points with decent/good utility.
The Tau race can supposedly make vast advancements in record time far faster than most others. Do you think they could eventually LEARN some melee combat or better close quarter fighting? Maybe make some "lightsaber-like" weapons or make a special exosuit that enhances strength and/or has an AI that can help them fight, like Iron Man in Civil War where he's fighting Cap and he has Friday "analyze" his fighting to come up with counters. I think that would be cool.
@DB8ed Why learn melee combat when you can invent a better gun? Gunpowder weapons ended the reign of knights, and Hiram Maxim pretty much ended even the possibility of viable melee builds back in the 19th Century on Earth.
Per lore, T’au find melee unsavory. But man do I wish that you were right. Right now our melee unit is kroot, Crisis Starscythe with flamers (assuming you survive getting charged), and Farsight. But bring back the fusion blades!
I can't really figure out what scout trick the pathfinders can pull out with a devilfish and a squad of breacher. Can someone help me understand? Thank you in advance
Not really related to the video but I'm wondering if it would help niche Warhammer units of you'd be allowed to take 3000 points (maybe less) to a tournament but you could still only field 2000 points? You choose what to field in setup phase It would help dedicated anti- units if they'd be useless against other targets. You'd never take those if you can't guarantee they'll be useful Would be similar to how in Pokemon you choose 6 in your team to bring to a tournament but every match only lets you enter 4 of those. You pick them before every match depending on the 6 your opponent brought
It's a neat idea, but I fear people would game it. Perhaps to add on, there'd need to be some kind of selection phase where you and your opponent write down, privately, what they're selecting from that wider roster, and present/cross check that with each other during setup? That might make it work, but it could be a right faff...
@@alexisauld7781 I was thinking more like placing a unit on the table and then marking its points. then the opponent does the same.. on and on until you reach 2000 points on the table and you've chosen your 2000 points. you can adapt to what the other player has fielded but I'm quite unfamiliar with how the game is actually played so maybe that's not a usable way to select the army. I just hear the "this unit is great but too niche to be used competitively" so often that I was thinking it'd be nice for those units be able to be taken and just not fielded if the niche isn't there
You know that feeling when writing a list and you think "oh man if only I had 200pts extra I could get everything I wanted and this would be a completely rounded list"? If you had a 1000pt bench you would never have that feeling 😂 the point of a 2000pt cap is list limitations. That's what makes the game competitive, you can make mistakes or good plays from list creation step because you have limitations, it completely misses the point of the restriction
honestly feel like shadowsun and farsight's rankings should be reversed, I've had far better results with farsight than I've had with shadowsun. Shadowsun just tries to do too much without being the best at any of it, whereas farsight does his one role excellently.
Nah shadowsun is better than Farsight overall but both are good. Farsight has the CP reduction in in his favour, +1 to wound is good but within 9" is quite punishing and is just another example of Tau hoops that few other armies get to receive rules. But shadowsuns reroll 1 and CP regen aura is incredible all game efficiency for powerful and expensive shooting, she has better guns and more of them and rerolls her own shooting, lone op which makes her very hard to kill and then on top of that -1 to hit and wound and finally and maybe most importantly she's a infantry battlesuit. I think she's objectively better
Shadowsun is overall "better". She does not need a bodyguard unit to avoid being fired upon(position dependent), and she brings good firepower of her own(can be used in combination with other units to remove a threat on a flank, leaving few/no enemies that can get within 12" of her next turn). Farsight has a few "issues". His own firepower is limited to 2 Plasma Rifle Shots(and if the situation allows, a bit of somewhat-decent melee), so he relies on his bodyguard unit to deal damage. In that regard, he competes directly with the 2 other Crisis Commanders, both of them having superior firepower on their own, and are cheaper. The Enforcer increases the durability of the Bodyguard unit, while the Coldstar increases mobility and threat-range. Putting Farsight in a Crisis team makes it very clear that they want to get within 9" or even melee range. Putting him in a unit of Sunforge Crisis makes it obvious that he wants to get within 6". But the unit is slower compared to if it was lead by a Coldstar Commander. You could put him in a Starscythe Crisis team, and they will hit a lot harder when within 9", but again, you need to get there first. It is only really in Retaliation Cadre(where he can deepstrike within 6") that he truly shines now. In the others, he is just "ok". Now that Tank-Shock is based on Toughness rather than Strength, Farsight is far less powerful as a damage dealer in his own right. He is a stronger "commander" than he was before(can use a lot more Stratagems for cheaper now), but in terms of his own damage output and his risk/reward gameplay, he is inferior to Shadowsun, and she still has comparable "commander" abilities, and more utility.
Does anybody know where you can find an updated points list for T'au? I am new to this and got the codex but seems the points have updated since the codex was printed
If they were priced at 55 or 60 pts, Firesight Teams might be worth their current stats. A different special rule that would benefit it as an Observer(rather than Guided) unit could also be an option to make it more viable(current point cost). Or allow them to join Pathfinders as Leaders. I would not mind a +10 pts cost increase if that was the case. I generally do not want "Snipers" to be too strong, as it is kind of an unfun interaction. If the Firesight Team had 3 shots with a Rail Rifle(S10, AP-4, Dam 3, Dev) every turn, every support character would be very short lived. Even T10 or less vehicles and Elite units would quickly fall, if 2 of them worked together.
I really dont get why people think the riptide is good. Whenever ive played it, it hits like a wet paper bag and crumbles just as easily. Damage output is mediocre, and as soon as some anti-tank sees it, its crippled or destroyed in a single volley. Those shots usually come in at least pairs, so you have a 50% chance of at least one going through, 25% for both, and as they are usually in the range of D6+3 to D6+6 damage, 14 wounds do not last long
I'm still pretty sad about the Tau detachments. 4 is a pretty small roster, and half of those only care about 6-8 datasheets- the Kroot and battlesuit detachments literally don't have any rules, stratagems, or enhancements that can target datasheets they don't cover. Meanwhile, Mont'ka and Kauyon only have rules for a little over half a match, and their rules + strats + enhancements are actually perfectly split in half on whether or not they apply to Kroot. Combine that with the fact Kroot don't interact with your army rule, and it's really hard to make a list that doesn't feel like you're playing the wrong detachment. Guess I'll stick with Guard for now, at least until THEY get 4 detachments, half of which ignore stuff that isn't Squadron or Regiment lmao
True. But it last until your own next turn, so both ranged and melee attacks are affected. S5 shooting has the potential to hurt most infantry units(not very likely vs vehicles), so you might take a couple of wounds of even elite units. And the suppression is a nice bonus to diminish the damage output of them(potentially a -20% to -33% damage output).
@@fendelphi Ya, I was just clarifying it can't be used against anything except infantry (still a good use case) so no feel bads occur if someone accidentally tries to suppress a dreadnought or something.
I hope they remodel the other riptide variants or bring back more characters. I feel like a lot of fun things got pushed into Legends. We have such a small roster now compared to ninth :(
They will have to pry my Y'vahra Battlesuit from my cold dead hands before I take it out of my lists, Especially since it works so good with Retaliation Cadre and my Commander Farsight army. Granted I don't play tournaments so I haven't had any issues with it lol
I dont disagree that they are overcosted, but Kroot also have Stealth and Scout 7". They are different from a utility and internal balance standpoint. Still, could probably cost 65 pts and still be ok.
You are paying 90 pts for a role it performs half as well as a 130 pts unit of Crisis suits. "Usable" fits. It is a bit more durable(to a certain degree, as it will die faster against things like Plasma and Lascannons than the Crisis Suits), but far less flexible.
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CORRECTION - sorry Broadsides are T6, not T8 as I said! Thanks for pointing that out.
Some are Tau units are good, some are great. So the object is to chose for the great or good.
If making Tau puns is wrong, I don't want Tau be right. So I'll just keep droning on.
Just......take my thumbs up.
Really fishing for puns huh? Well someone’s gotta be devils advocate.
Boo this man
@@Allinwith92 Stop railing at me!
Sure, the Vehicle Keyword means Crisis suits need to go around terrain, theoretically, but I think it's worth mentioning that pretty much everything in T'au (except Fire Warriors or Kroot) does have Fly, so there's options going around that Terrain.
The option is basically if it's a 4" tall ruin it might be slightly more efficient to go over it but for any other terrain height it means you need to go around it for the best movement. On top of that for crisis suits they've lost auto advance 6" which mitigated a lot of the issues they have going over terrain
Thank you Auspex, you can sleep now.
Probably not he needs to review every imperium unit tomrrow
Why the constant obsession with his sleep patterns?
Dude must not be giving himself enough time to sleep for the past year with the endless stream of videos that he makes. We are all a slight bit worried.
And it's a good meme at this point
@@eigokudemangaka oh, the unbelievable stress and endless grind of producing TH-cam videos. No other job comes close.
Can he?
A small correction on the Broadside Battlesuit. It is T6, not T8, making it quite vulnerable to Plasma weaponry and even mass bolter fire.
Also, a thing to consider, if you take 2 of them in a unit, you have at least 16 wounds, meaning more VP potential for the opponent.
The Stormsurge is not a Battlesuit, so it wont benefit from Battlesuit keyword things(Retaliation Cadre). If you are using it in Kauyon, you can use it as an Observer, then use the Coordinate to Engage stratagem to give it +1 BS, allowing it to split fire without taking the massive accuracy penalty(the penalty is only for units that are Guided). If done during Kauyon, you even get sustained Hits 1(2 vs your spotted target).
Similar is true for the Ta'unar.
The Sky Ray Gunship is another unit that kind of shines in Kauyon. Because it keeps the same damage output throughout(unlike the Hammerhead), it really shines when it starts to get Sustained Hit 1 or 2. Being able to act as decent Observer with the Markerlight keyword means it is a great candidate for Coordinate to Engage(+1 BS and ignores Cover if the unit has the Markerlight keyword, when shooting at the Spotted target).
Thanks for the correction and all the insights :)
So would you sky ray gunship is good or no? I have like 3-4 Kits to build and I dunno if I want two basic hammer head and two sky rays, or if the other canon variant is a good choice? I’ve never played a single game so I dunno what to expect or what I want. Just that I am trying to balance my army to fight any opponent. Melee, heavy tanks, flying threats, etc. I hear sky rays are useful, it should I make 2 and 2 hammer heads? or what would you advise?
@@elitetrooper119 Sky Ray Gunships are pretty good. Consistent damage output against both vehicles and elite infantry. Even better if the opponent has some units with the Flying keyword(reroll hit rolls for all your weapons).
They are also, currently, slightly cheaper in points compared to Hammerhead Gunships, but that might change(used to be the opposite).
Hammerhead Gunships with a Railgun have excellent damage vs vehicles and monsters, but after they have used their one-shot Seeker Missiles, they only have that 1 shot from the Railgun per turn as a threat against those targets.
It still hits very hard and is a serious threat(even 2+ save cant stop this shot), but an unlucky roll to hit or wound(or Invulnerable save), even if it rarely happens, can result in zero damage being done at a critical moment.
Hammerhead Gunships with Ion Cannons are a bit "middle of the road" for most detachments, but are quite good if you play Mont'ka.
They still have 2 one-shot Seeker Missiles to help out with vehicles and monsters, but otherwise the S8 of the Ion Cannon is not a good tool against such targets(great vs various infantry though). But in Mont'ka, if you guide the Hammerhead, it has Lethal on all attacks, which can make the Ion Cannon deal somewhat consistent damage even against high toughness targets.
So my recommendation depends on what detachment you want to use the most. All variations can be quite good, depending on what you are fighting and what other tools you have available in your army.
If I were you, I would make 1 of each and wait with the 4th model. They will all be decent value. Use them for a couple matches, get a feel for their performance against different threats and tactics, then decide if you want a 4th tank(and what it should be).
@@fendelphi Thanks. I appreciate the advice. What are the differences of Combat styles for the Tau? Mont’ka etc? I only thought that was lore stuff not actual table top related.
@@elitetrooper119 I can give you a quick rundown, but I suggest you check the Wahapedia(warhammer wikipedia) and check out the different detachments and their effects.
Mont'ka gives your entire army assault weapons for the first 3 turns(can advance and still shoot). It also provides Lethal Hits(automatic wound when rolling a critical hit) to the ranged attacks for units that are Guided(For the Greater Good mechanic), again the first 3 turns.
Mont'ka focuses on high mobility and damage output for the first 3 turns to take control of the pacing.
Kauyon is the opposite. From turn 3 onwards(so 3, 4 and 5), the entire army gets sustained hits 1(critical hits counts as 2 hits instead of 1). When using For the Greater Good to Guide a unit, both the Guided unit and Observer unit gets sustained hits 2(critical hits counts as 3 hits instead of 1) against the targeted(Spotted) unit.
Kauyon focuses on a powerful counter-attack/ambush strategy, where you set up defensively for the first 2 turns(to preserve forces), then attack at full force from turn 3 onwards.
Retaliation Cadre is focused on Battlesuits. All its benefits have something to do with the Battlesuits of the Tau(Crisis, Stealth Suits, Commanders, Broadsides, Ghostkeel, Riptide). A Battlesuit that shoots at an enemy within 12" gets +1 to the strength of their ranged weaponry. If within 6" of an enemy, they get an extra point of AP as well.
The detachment focuses on bringing a very large amount of various battlesuits and engage at close quarters.
The final detachment is the Kroot Hunting Pack. This detachment focuses exclusively on the various Kroot units, both increasing their damage potential and survivability.
Kroot units in your army gets a +1 to hit if the enemy unit is below its starting strength(lost a model or a wound). They also get +1 to Wound if it is below half starting strength. Both of these benefits work with ranged and melee attacks.
This means that you typically bring a couple of Tau heavy firepower units to "crack open" the enemy, then have your Kroot horde finish them off.
The defensive part is that all Kroot models gets a 6+ Invulnerable save against melee attacks, and 5+ Invulnerable save against ranged attacks, making them surprisingly durable.
If you are bringing 3-4 tanks(20-25% of your entire army), you are probably looking more towards Mont'ka or Kauyon than the other two, although it is not set in stone or anything. Afterall, they do bring heavy firepower no matter the detachment. It is just that they get the most benefit themselves in either Mont'ka or Kauyon.
So, since the folks at GW took the time to lump the Votann into the Xenos camp, and not the Imperium list, where their forces might've done mercenary work for the Guard, or Sisters, it's too bad they didn't leave open a path for allied Demiurg to field with the Tau. I'm not even saying Tau need the help, but one of the big lore bits for them is their Federation of other Xenos clients, and while we get two of them, this very video sort of spells out how meh either the Vespids, or even the Kroot, can be, so it's too bad it's not an option here to let some Votann team up with the Tau, or maybe even vice versa, since the Votann line is still a bit light, and does have its own shortcomings.
We seriously need multiple armies for Tau the same way the Imperium has. We can have the Tau as is, and then a version more like the Covenant.
Random comment that it took me *faaar* too long to realise that Tau are the 40k analogy to the *Lizardmen* from Fantasy, with their caste system and direction from above etc.
Becose they're blue?
Actually the caste system is the only remnant of Gav Thorpe's original design, they were reworked into Tau.
What are you talking about they're entirely different
Re: Crisis Suits - they have fly and can fly over terrain. Starscythe flamers make great guiding units since they don't need to be guided. Put a Marker Drone on them.
I think an interesting idea for the stormsurge wanting to split fire problem would be to let it be guided by more than one unit. at least one other. It would use up another unit for guiding which would be a decent trade off. That way its guns can shoot at what it wants to shoot without a penalty. Alternatively the way I use mine I just don't guide it and stick shadowsun next to it for the reroll of wound rolls of 1.
Congrats on 300k Auspex!
You know considering the meta rn is basically 12" of Death it's pretty hilarious that the T'au of all people were having an upper Mid win rate.
Poor kroot, we’ll be good someday
not lost a friendly game yet with kroot (though I think some may not want to try in tournaments, they did win 1 I believe)
If only jungle rules could come back...
I’d prefer them to be fleshed out and the tau have a space marine guard relation with the other species for no other reason than people come to tau for suits and tank ascetics kroot don’t really follow that id prefer more “on brand options”
Don’t threaten me with more Kroot :). But no I totally hear what your saying that would be awesome
@@JoeyMoskalik-lr4md spoilers: no you wont
Man would i love to have T8 on my broadsides but unfortunatly its still T6😢
always great to see a video on Tau,
Broadsides are T6 not T8.
i do love my Kroot, enjoy playing them and they are rather durable with their detachment, stealth, scout and FNP from flesh shaper.
If you think Ghostkeels have low damage output, try taking a couple escorted by Shadowsun using the Fusion Collider. In RetCadre of course.
Still low damage for the point cost(2 Fusion Collider shots for 160 pts compared to 3 Seeker Missiles with wound reroll from a 140 pts Sky Ray).
But the Fusion Collider does have a role to play and can do what it sets out to do. It is just not a high "damage dealer".
@@fendelphi It's a high damage dealer considering the consistency. Nobody's dealing with the 2 Ghostkeel + Shadowsun castle on turn 1 or 2, maybe not even 3. A Skyray or a Hammerhead is an easier target. Even if the GK+Shadowsun combo is meant to be up front, really aggressive. Piranha screening also helps.
@@Vinterloft It is still not high damage. You are paying 420 pts for 2 Ghostkeels and Shadowsun, while having far less damage output compared to a unit of Sunforges(6 Fusion Blasters) and a Coldstar combo(about 250 pts total).
You might get lucky and take out a tank in a single turn that way(on average, half the shots will fail to deal damage), but that might only be worth around 200 pts.
For the Fusion Collider to deal damage, you need to get within 18" of a target, and within 9" if you want actual consistency(otherwise, you might be rolling 1 or 2 for damage).
If you want to take advantage of Retaliation Cadre buffs, you need to be within 12".
Unlike Crisis Suits, the Ghostkeel cant deep strike in, so they have to walk/fly up the board, making it very obvious what is going to happen.
A lot of armies can easily absorb 4-6 shots from 9-12" range(2x Fusion Collider Ghostkeel+Shadowsun), then close into melee in the following turn(Ghostkeel cant negate melee damage nearly as effectively, as neither stealth nor the drones help there).
What you are paying for, is being immune to cross map fire support while you move in and deal damage at close range.
It is a scalpel tool. It can hit the target you need it to, but it wont deal high amounts of damage turn after turn when you look at what you are paying for(especially if what is attacking you is hordes of infantry).
@@fendelphi Fusion Blasters hit a brick wall against much lower toughness targets than collider, especially in retaliation cadre. It's one of the worst Tau weapons, the only reason Piranhas are good despite using them are the seeker missiles for alpha
@@Vinterloft Sunforges reroll wound roll and damage roll against vehicles and monsters. They also confer that bonus to whatever weaponry their Commander is bringing.
So out of 6 Fusion Blasters, roughly 3 will wound on average even against T14. By Comparison, a Ghostkeel will fail to wound T13 or T14 1/3 of the time, and against a T12 target, half the time, so they can only realistically expect 1 wound of the 2 shots(that is assuming both hit as well).
Even against T10 and T11, you are far from guarateed 2 wounds.
If we can expect 3 wounds from a unit of Sunforges no matter if it is T10 or T14, and only hope for 2 wounds from the Ghostkeel, we then move onto the actual damage.
The Fusion Collider is D6+Melta(if within melta range). If we succesfully wound twice, that means we can expect 6-16 damage, if within melta range. Average expected damage within melta range is 11 damage, which is not enough to take out most heavy vehicles.
3 Fusion Blasters from the Sunforges deal between 9 and 24 damage, and can reroll the damage roll against monsters and vehicles. As such, the expected damage roll within melta range is roughly 18 damage.
So the damage output of a single Ghostkeel is substantially lower than a unit of Sunforges, so long as we are talking about shooting into vehicles and monsters.
What about if we are shooting into regular spacemarines?
Well, the Sunforges get 6 shots, each of them wounding on a 2+.
The Ghostkeel get 2 shots, each of them wounding on a 2+.
Sunforges are also much better at dealing with marines.
And the same is true against Terminators and other elite units(you simply have 2-3x as many shots).
Finally, we have "application". The Fusion Collider has 18" range, while the Fusion Blaster only has 12". But Sunforges can Deep Strike as close as 3" in Retaliation Cadre, making it overall much easier to deliver their damage where it is needed(very easy to get within Melta range).
In Retaliation Cadre, they also become S10 when within 12"(which is their max range anyway), and suddenly they are wounding a lot of tanks, walkers and transports on a 4+, still with a reroll to wound, making them far, far superior to the Ghostkeel in terms of damage.
The reason why Piranhas take the Piranha Fusion Blaster, is in case of a "hail Mary" going through and doing serious damage(Melta 4). 1 shot only has 1/3 chance of that happening. But if you have 2 of them in a unit, and you are affected by Kauyon, you might suddenly see 4 shots going off. That is a lot of potential damage.
It is also quite effective for taking out lone elite models and light transports when within melta range.
Last time I was this early my wife said “was that it?”
Focus on Kauyon next time
Its great that the majority of the army is very usable
The stormsurge ignores hit modifiers so the split fire penalty does not apply
Not correct. The support systems allows it to ignore modifiers to the Hit Roll(-1 to hit etc.). Split Firing while Guided is a Ballistic Skill(BS) penalty(it changes your BS from a standard 4+ to 5+). It does not modify your hit roll.
The way "To Hit" works, is that you have a "success state"(your BS value). In this case, it is usually 4+. A -1 to hit modifier means that your dice roll become 1 worse. A 4 becomes a 3, and so it no longer meets your "success state" value of 4+. That is what you can ignore with the Support System ability.
The Split Fire penalty from being Guided sets your "Success State" to 5+. It is not a roll modifier, but the actual goal that has changed.
I have found a strike team plus tidewall shield thing impenetrable in casual games. It's not particularly good for defense as opposed to zoning. You can completely block off areas depending on map layouts.
My friends and I have fun with it. Don't use it in tournaments 😅
Firesight really depends on your opponent, I have played him in my list against necrons to pick off characters that give 5+ feel no pain buffs, make sure he's placed at height to gain plunging fire for +1 AP and he does quite well! Softens up a unit of wraiths for the breachers to swoop in
Rampagers are very underrated they should be an 8/10 even outside the Hunting pack. I use them in Retaliation and they are extremely effective right up there with Broadsides, Sunforge units in effectiveness. Heroic Intervention means they deal out a massive amount of mortal wounds before combat starts. Rapid Ingress or reserves is a major problem for an opponent.
Lance/Sustain + high volume of Mortals wounds means they do have high damage output on targets with high saves and high toughness. My Rampagers have killed Mortarion and C'tan on charge.
As someone who has never played Warhammer, it looks like the Tau are constantly being pushed away from being a long ranged army and more a close fighting, gamey army. You can’t just sit in the back and blaze away from safety, now you need to get close because you’re weapons are only effective up close.
To all those better schooled than me, who can answer me this, its stated that while a leader is attached to a unit it counts as part of that unit. Now the commanders abilities clearly state they only activate when leading a unit but for say the sunforge suits theirs just say "this unit" which i guess rules as written the attached commander is a part of and would also get the reroll wound and dmg against monsters and vehicles, i cant find it specifically faq'd and its to convoluted for google, because also would a starscythes battlesuit systems also affect the commander without having to take one themselves? thanks to all who read and any who venture to answer ;)
Unit abilities that affect the unit, also affect leaders attached to it, as they are part of the unit.
What part of the Ethereal let’s them generate command points when in reserves? I’ve tried looking and I can’t find the ruling for that anywhere, but it sounds like something that would actually make me want to take them in my games a lot more
It's just part of core rules. Abilities still work while units are in reserves. Do note, though, that it's not the case when being in a transport. For some reason GW decided that units in transports don't exist at all.
I'm a new Tau player, got a squad of Stealth suits, a Commander battlesuit, a squad of Crisis battlesuits and a Broadside. What 1 unit should I add to this army?
Either Pathfinders or a unit of Fire Warrior Strike Team. Currently, you have only 1 dedicated Observer(Stealth Suits) and 2 units that wants to be guided.
Both units have good range and are fairly cheap in points with decent/good utility.
Worth a mention, Broadsides are only T6, not T8
BUFF THE STORM SURGE
I heard they're not the best in melee, but I won't let such scandalous lies keep me from living my dreams 😊
The Tau race can supposedly make vast advancements in record time far faster than most others. Do you think they could eventually LEARN some melee combat or better close quarter fighting?
Maybe make some "lightsaber-like" weapons or make a special exosuit that enhances strength and/or has an AI that can help them fight, like Iron Man in Civil War where he's fighting Cap and he has Friday "analyze" his fighting to come up with counters. I think that would be cool.
@DB8ed Why learn melee combat when you can invent a better gun? Gunpowder weapons ended the reign of knights, and Hiram Maxim pretty much ended even the possibility of viable melee builds back in the 19th Century on Earth.
Per lore, T’au find melee unsavory. But man do I wish that you were right. Right now our melee unit is kroot, Crisis Starscythe with flamers (assuming you survive getting charged), and Farsight. But bring back the fusion blades!
It's not that they need to "learn" they intentionally avoid melee combat. Most of them anyway, Farsight is built different.
I can't really figure out what scout trick the pathfinders can pull out with a devilfish and a squad of breacher. Can someone help me understand? Thank you in advance
Not really related to the video but I'm wondering if it would help niche Warhammer units of you'd be allowed to take 3000 points (maybe less) to a tournament but you could still only field 2000 points?
You choose what to field in setup phase
It would help dedicated anti- units if they'd be useless against other targets. You'd never take those if you can't guarantee they'll be useful
Would be similar to how in Pokemon you choose 6 in your team to bring to a tournament but every match only lets you enter 4 of those. You pick them before every match depending on the 6 your opponent brought
It's a neat idea, but I fear people would game it. Perhaps to add on, there'd need to be some kind of selection phase where you and your opponent write down, privately, what they're selecting from that wider roster, and present/cross check that with each other during setup? That might make it work, but it could be a right faff...
@@alexisauld7781 I was thinking more like placing a unit on the table and then marking its points. then the opponent does the same.. on and on until you reach 2000 points on the table and you've chosen your 2000 points. you can adapt to what the other player has fielded
but I'm quite unfamiliar with how the game is actually played so maybe that's not a usable way to select the army. I just hear the "this unit is great but too niche to be used competitively" so often that I was thinking it'd be nice for those units be able to be taken and just not fielded if the niche isn't there
You know that feeling when writing a list and you think "oh man if only I had 200pts extra I could get everything I wanted and this would be a completely rounded list"? If you had a 1000pt bench you would never have that feeling 😂 the point of a 2000pt cap is list limitations. That's what makes the game competitive, you can make mistakes or good plays from list creation step because you have limitations, it completely misses the point of the restriction
The massive nerfs to Kroot almost 1 month after the Codex dropped was lame
Firesignt sniper team should auto mark on hit
honestly feel like shadowsun and farsight's rankings should be reversed, I've had far better results with farsight than I've had with shadowsun. Shadowsun just tries to do too much without being the best at any of it, whereas farsight does his one role excellently.
Nah shadowsun is better than Farsight overall but both are good. Farsight has the CP reduction in in his favour, +1 to wound is good but within 9" is quite punishing and is just another example of Tau hoops that few other armies get to receive rules. But shadowsuns reroll 1 and CP regen aura is incredible all game efficiency for powerful and expensive shooting, she has better guns and more of them and rerolls her own shooting, lone op which makes her very hard to kill and then on top of that -1 to hit and wound and finally and maybe most importantly she's a infantry battlesuit. I think she's objectively better
Shadowsun is overall "better". She does not need a bodyguard unit to avoid being fired upon(position dependent), and she brings good firepower of her own(can be used in combination with other units to remove a threat on a flank, leaving few/no enemies that can get within 12" of her next turn).
Farsight has a few "issues". His own firepower is limited to 2 Plasma Rifle Shots(and if the situation allows, a bit of somewhat-decent melee), so he relies on his bodyguard unit to deal damage. In that regard, he competes directly with the 2 other Crisis Commanders, both of them having superior firepower on their own, and are cheaper. The Enforcer increases the durability of the Bodyguard unit, while the Coldstar increases mobility and threat-range.
Putting Farsight in a Crisis team makes it very clear that they want to get within 9" or even melee range.
Putting him in a unit of Sunforge Crisis makes it obvious that he wants to get within 6". But the unit is slower compared to if it was lead by a Coldstar Commander.
You could put him in a Starscythe Crisis team, and they will hit a lot harder when within 9", but again, you need to get there first.
It is only really in Retaliation Cadre(where he can deepstrike within 6") that he truly shines now. In the others, he is just "ok".
Now that Tank-Shock is based on Toughness rather than Strength, Farsight is far less powerful as a damage dealer in his own right. He is a stronger "commander" than he was before(can use a lot more Stratagems for cheaper now), but in terms of his own damage output and his risk/reward gameplay, he is inferior to Shadowsun, and she still has comparable "commander" abilities, and more utility.
Does anybody know where you can find an updated points list for T'au? I am new to this and got the codex but seems the points have updated since the codex was printed
would be really nice if firesight team gets rail rifles... same weapon as pathfinders lol....
If they were priced at 55 or 60 pts, Firesight Teams might be worth their current stats.
A different special rule that would benefit it as an Observer(rather than Guided) unit could also be an option to make it more viable(current point cost).
Or allow them to join Pathfinders as Leaders. I would not mind a +10 pts cost increase if that was the case.
I generally do not want "Snipers" to be too strong, as it is kind of an unfun interaction. If the Firesight Team had 3 shots with a Rail Rifle(S10, AP-4, Dam 3, Dev) every turn, every support character would be very short lived. Even T10 or less vehicles and Elite units would quickly fall, if 2 of them worked together.
@@fendelphi oh... i didn't think about that thanks
Why did they nerf the kroot so hard tho?
Warhammer hate money I guess. Won't stop me from playing them though.
I own zero models and know little rules and I’m watching this video because Warhammer. 👍
(I do own a plethora of WH video games but still.)
Kroot mentioned W
I really dont get why people think the riptide is good.
Whenever ive played it, it hits like a wet paper bag and crumbles just as easily.
Damage output is mediocre, and as soon as some anti-tank sees it, its crippled or destroyed in a single volley. Those shots usually come in at least pairs, so you have a 50% chance of at least one going through, 25% for both, and as they are usually in the range of D6+3 to D6+6 damage, 14 wounds do not last long
anyone who says the stormsurge is a 5/10 hasnt brought him to enough games yet. he cooks fr fr
I'm still pretty sad about the Tau detachments. 4 is a pretty small roster, and half of those only care about 6-8 datasheets- the Kroot and battlesuit detachments literally don't have any rules, stratagems, or enhancements that can target datasheets they don't cover. Meanwhile, Mont'ka and Kauyon only have rules for a little over half a match, and their rules + strats + enhancements are actually perfectly split in half on whether or not they apply to Kroot. Combine that with the fact Kroot don't interact with your army rule, and it's really hard to make a list that doesn't feel like you're playing the wrong detachment.
Guess I'll stick with Guard for now, at least until THEY get 4 detachments, half of which ignore stuff that isn't Squadron or Regiment lmao
Imagine playing Tau and not running all mechs. How embarrassing.
I could have swore broadsides were T6
Does this man ever sleep?
Suppression volley for the Strike Team is one enemy INFANTRY unit isnt it?
True. But it last until your own next turn, so both ranged and melee attacks are affected.
S5 shooting has the potential to hurt most infantry units(not very likely vs vehicles), so you might take a couple of wounds of even elite units. And the suppression is a nice bonus to diminish the damage output of them(potentially a -20% to -33% damage output).
@@fendelphi Ya, I was just clarifying it can't be used against anything except infantry (still a good use case) so no feel bads occur if someone accidentally tries to suppress a dreadnought or something.
I hope they remodel the other riptide variants or bring back more characters. I feel like a lot of fun things got pushed into Legends.
We have such a small roster now compared to ninth :(
They will have to pry my Y'vahra Battlesuit from my cold dead hands before I take it out of my lists, Especially since it works so good with Retaliation Cadre and my Commander Farsight army. Granted I don't play tournaments so I haven't had any issues with it lol
can i take a unit of 20?!?! rampagers?!
max unit of 6 x 3 = 18 Rampagers, then you can field 3x 3 = 9 Krootox Riders too on top of it
God bless you
Kroot massively over costed, cadian shock troops have special weapons oc 2 and sticky for only 60pts
I dont disagree that they are overcosted, but Kroot also have Stealth and Scout 7". They are different from a utility and internal balance standpoint.
Still, could probably cost 65 pts and still be ok.
Tau is my favorite army to play
Can shoot, cant melee. Pretty easy
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is this video make me buy less Tau? of course no :)
You forgot the Legends units. Not everyone plays tournaments.
Dude has not faced hymp broadsides in mont'ka yet. "Usable" 😂
You are paying 90 pts for a role it performs half as well as a 130 pts unit of Crisis suits.
"Usable" fits. It is a bit more durable(to a certain degree, as it will die faster against things like Plasma and Lascannons than the Crisis Suits), but far less flexible.
Balanced but usuable is an 8/10? Wierd scale.
First
Never forget the main weakness of the average tau player....pulling from the cat tail plug
Especially in combination with calling them a good boy.