When you guys disagree, we, the viewers, get a much more nuanced and interesting understanding of the topic at hand. Love it. Too many reviewers feel they need to present a "single cohesive opinion"...
Too many reviewers act like everything is awesome because they don't want to hurt their relationship with OEM's, I don't blame them but I could just as easily read the brochure and get the same value from it. So thank you Goose.
I feel like this is the only channel that knows how to review cars. Every car is reviewed for what it is and for the purpose it was designed to serve; I really appreciate that. Other reviewers would complain it isn’t “luxurious enough” or doesn’t have a panoramic sunroof 🙄
@@tim3172 if they actually honor the warranty why they are getting sued???? Hyundai Class Action Says DCT Transmissions Are Defective Hyundai class action lawsuitA Nevada couple is suing Hyundai over an alleged transmission defect that causes the accelerator to become unresponsive in certain vehicles leading to spontaneously stalling. Plaintiffs Nicholas and Shawna Wylie filed the complaint Tuesday seeking to represent a group of consumers who purchased or leased any Hyundai Veloster, Sonata or Elantra vehicle equipped with a 7-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission (DCT).
You know, I'm not gonna rag on the automatic. I'm not going to diminish anyone that gets one of these in an automatic. In the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's we were awash with small-to-smallish 2 door cars that could be had with a manual or automatic. I had 4 cylinder Mazda MX-6 with an automatic/I had a 6 cylinder Ford Probe with a 5 speed stick. Same car basically, but with wildly different personalities and driver experience. There were manual/automatic Mitsubishis, Honda Preludes, Mercury Cougars, Ford Thunderbirds, Toyota Celicas....Hyundai Scoupe's? Saturn SC's? I don't know whatever. Point being; All of that is gone now in the 2 door form. You can get a Mustang or Challenger or Camaro today that'll barely fit in a garage with their size. Or you can get one of the few remaining FWD hot hatches, which are objectively Not Coupes. But something like this and the GR... I'm glad they offer it in a MT/AT form. I'm glad it's still compact compared to todays cars. I'm glad it sends the power to the rear wheels. Fuck it. Buy an automatic if you daily in gridlock traffic and have to navigate horrendous parking structures. You can let your mom with the knee replacement surgery use it in a pinch if she needs to. Buy a manual if that's your thing and it enhances your driving fun so much. Who cares? Buy it regardless because there's so little out there in the small 2 door car segment. Soon there will be none. And we'll miss the days when we even had the chance to buy an automatic BRZ/GR86.
I was so complaining about $30k sticker price when it first came out in 2013. 7 years fast forward now it is the most affordable rear sports car which survived the sports car genocide. Kudos to Subaru/Toyota and the community
The level of enjoyment I get watching these despite little to no interest in some of the cars being reviewed is a real testimony to the quality of the production and the entertaining chemistry between Mark and Jack.
The transmission part of the video was hilarious, as a Euro guy who considers automatics in cars like this as heresy. Then again this automatic doesn't look that bad and overall the BRZ looked like a solid daily driver
@@dwade3202 well some folks just dgaf about the transmission just want a cheap enjoyable car to drive. Don’t get me wrong I still want ppl to learn manual but we all gotta be thankful this damn platform is still alive.
@@iHaveTheDocuments who here has driven an auto and a manual 86? I've owned both and both make sense depending on the usage. No one cares about what looks cool on the internet, it's all about the real world use cases.
I've been waiting on a review of the auto brz/86 so thank you. As a part of the 1%(presumably) of sports car fans who legit cant operate a clutch due to disability this is pretty important to me. Hopefully I can afford one used before ICE's get banned lol
ICE wont get banned, we are 8 billion fuckin people. Why would some politicians who are getting paid by billionaire polluting corporations decide wtf we do
@@MJT-DA didn't take that long on a long empty highway early COVID lol. Remember the peak torque is at 6200 rpm which is basically around 230-240 km/h range in that year (4.3 final drive vs 4.1 in the older models)
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 Lmao thats true I respect brz owners especially those that can embarrass those cocky hellcat owners exiting the highway after since they can't corner. But i live in Northern Ontario we don't have much twisties so I bought the genesis coupe 2.0T instead for the 274hp out of the box. And i can through on a larger turbo without changing anything and add more power. However if I lived in Southern Ontario with country roads fk the hyundai.
Thanks for doing this video. As someone with a knee injury and pushing a clutch down or holding it at the engagement point actually causes pain after a few times- it's great to see automatics being included in 'fun' cars like this. I miss my old MT Skyline and haven't really looked at affordable 'sporty' cars due to their exclusivity with manuals but this BRZ/GR86 is the first time I feel I won't be losing too much on the experience.
Bummer that happened to you. Have you tried a different car? I get leg pain sometimes too, but only in cars with upright seating positions like a sedan or truck. But I'm fine if I sit low in a sports car and get to push the clutch on a straighter angle.
Ever since I started watching Savagegeese, the women in my life have stopped asking me why I keep a dozen Big Macs in my glove box. Great video guys! Not looking forward to Jack's thoracotomy from that seatbelt tho.
It made me feel so much better when Jack briefly acknowledged people with disabilities getting automatics instead of manual. I have to explain it all the time that it's not safe for me to drive stick due to nerve damage
As long as you can handle the gear stick the clutch can be automated. So you don't need to feel bad about being disabled. If you really want you can still drive a manual with a button operated clutch
That’s understandable yet I cringe when I say that. Most people wouldn’t acknowledge it because it’s the rare exception. There are always rare exceptions to everything but we can’t acknowledge them all - but people use that this days as a bludgeon.. In regard to you personally, try not to care. Anyone who really truly cares about what transmission you choose is a bit of an overbearing idiot lol.
Transmission jokes aside, remember what he said, 70% of sales are automatics for the 86/BRZ. Let that sink in. Stop complaining about the automatic, unless you yourself have purchased a brand new manual transmission version. If you haven't done that, your opinion literally means nothing to Toyota/Subaru because you aren't going to buy the car anyway. Buying used doesn't count. The manufacturers only get paid when you buy new, and it's new car buying trends that they must cater to in order to sell cars.
I love my manual cars but will not deny the fact that having it as an option likely kept the platform going especially on the 86 side over 2/3 were solid automatic.
Yeah, Subaru themselves said the brz tended to have a higher manual take rate than the 86 by a wide margin. I'm thinking they got those numbers from Toyota.
I really am glad to hear what he thought of the Miata Auto too. I am getting one to take my parents to track days. They love my car stuff and I think an Auto is a sacrifice worth having for RWD
I'm pretty sure anyone buying these in auto knows they're better with 3 pedals, but it's about personal preference at the end of the day, and if they're happy with the auto then let it be. Who cares what someone else does with their money.
@@googleleavemynamealone9145 The 6AT really kills the fun when I test drove the ND2 miata. It always tries to upshift and save fuel. I then drove the 6MT ND2 RF to compare the difference. It felt significantly more lively and fast.
@@bush4721 Yeah but my parents aren't going to know any of that. Even the screen in the Miata is going to super impress them LOL All our cars are luckily from the golden era, LS460 sport, Forester XT, TL Type-s ect. So really anything new is going to be great and a Miata, well you just aren't sure how much longer that kind of car is going to exist, and it's so easy for them. Worth it, plus at SCCA it's easy for anyone to hop in for scouting parade laps etc
As ever, the most insightful reviews available. The disagreement over the automatic really demonstrated the pros and cons of that transmission. I'm glad it's an option, because it broadens the buying base. But I will drive manuals as long as I am able.
it will get amazing, brand new, exciting limited edition with different color, new wheels(bold assumption) and stickers. After 2 years small facelifting and updated stitching color. After anothre 2 years probably something crazy like updated engine tuning giving 1.2hp more in the last 500rpm 😂😂😂
@@Angry-Lynx guess I’m more interested to see what the after market does for this vehicle. From and ND2 perspective they have done a ton to improve brakes, suspension, and N/A power. They have yet to come out with a BBR turbo solution.
Loved the transmission argument. Jack was so passionate. I thought the take rate for the manual in the BRZ was still well north of 50% though? Overall, still seems like a great package.
@@802Garage Yea, Toyota is very big and mainstream. Makes sense they would have more Auto buyers and the 86 sold twice as much. Subaru is more of a niche and enthusiast focused brand just like Mazda. Though their starting to push that CVT too much.
Getting some Siskel & Ebert vibes for the in-car driving segment. Not sure if you're going for that, but seriously well done if you are - really enjoyed the back and forth, the passion displayed!
@@xuimod oh I was joking hahah- I know one was chubby with glasses and one was tall and thin and balding and they were a duo from the 80’s & 90’s. I don’t live under a rock lmao. I am from Germany tho.
I recently bought a 2022 Veloster N ending my monumental journey trying to find one without a 3-7k markup. Good luck to all you BRZ/86 buyers, have patience and don't give up.
@@Carlos.Rivera Yea, their definitely not worried about not being able to sell them. All of the R/Ts are going low-mid 40s and Scats are going for over $50K. Meanwhile one of the local Ford dealers has plenty of discounted Mustangs. Almost went to get a loaded up Ecoboost with the 10-speed for $38K instead of ordering a BRZ.
Absolutely love your reviews. Love the honesty and focus on actual experience, mechanics, and drive-ability. I also appreciate the perspective from a regular person as well as from an enthusiast. And love the humor. Thanks again guys for a great video.
You guys have disagreed about things, so it isn't new. But the banter is usually short. This debate went on for minutes. I like it. Please do more of this. Great vid.
Still number one on my list if I can secure more gainful employment. More inclined to buy the Toyota for sentimental reasons, but I'd be happy with either in manual. Hopefully that turn signal issue gets fixed.
I thought the BRZ was the version to have of the original version. I still think it is. When these finally arrive in dealers I will gladly go and take a look at one. Thank you gentlemen.
The most underrated thing on this car is the port injection that comes from the factory. Coming from an Audi A3 Quattro owner, port injection is probably one of the best mods for a car. I was on the edge of buying one or not, but after seeing the car come with port injection, im definitely buying it
Absolutely. No CVT, no turbo, and no direct injection-only means this car should ultimately prove more long-term reliable than any of the new turbo-DI offerings from Honda, Hyundai, VW, or anybody else. I really wish Toyota would allow Subaru to use their D-4S system on all Subarus, not just the BRZ.
@@vlj1133 honestly, the brz platform is something I really wish Subaru would dedicate more time to. There's definitely a lot more room for improvement on the car while still staying within the same price range.
Realistically, the only things Subaru could add to this new BRZ while still keeping it at a similar pricepoint would be better brakes/suspension, twenty more hp from this NA engine, the GR86's higher duckbill rear spoiler, and an updated infotainment system with sharper screen resolution. In a nutshell, everything the BRZ will receive next year, or in the first refresh, minus the twenty additional hp. We won't be seeing more stock ponies anytime soon. There will definitely be a Brembo/Bilstein-style Performance Package option in the near future.
the car has both port and direct injection, that is what the 4-DS is. The 4D-S injection is something Toyota forced into this platform, Subaru didn't want it, because they wanted to use their own system. I read for some reason in early negotiations, Toyota made it basically mandatory for the project to go ahead, and it's literally one of the only mechanical components they do (along with the gearbox) while Subaru basically does everything else. All prior subaru engines were port only, but subaru has developed their own direct injection too. It's only FA20 and FA24 in BRZ/GR86 that has both the port and direct injection from 4-DS, while other new subarus, like new outback and new forester have subaru direct injection now. I don't know enough about it to be honest, but I heard some tuners complain that the direct injection makes it harder to tune, but if they have been experts on EJ's and other engines most of their career, it makes sense they know port inside out. I don't know enough about it to be honest, I read pros and cons etc.
I have been watching your videos since 2018, this is one of the best ones yet especially since I love the BRZ and 86. I have a tuned Civic Si but I wish I wish-- I could have bought a 1st gen. Now I am glad I waited. Will be buying the GR86 after 2-3 years on the market so they work out the kinks.
I drove both the auto and the manual back to back at Monticello Motor Club on track. The tuning of the auto is very disappointing on track. It’s very slow and reluctant to downshift. Upshifts are pretty good. Putting it in manual mode alleviates those complaints though. The actual shifts are reasonably quick, but this is no ZF 8HP. On the street the auto is absolutely fine. No complaints at all. If you’re going yo track the car, get the manual. It’s superb. It’s smoother than the last generation and there’s no issue getting it into 4th as they’ve improved the synchros. I have a GR86 in order because I loved driving it. The suspension dynamics are excellent,
I owned an 15 FRS Auto once and I never had any issues on the downshifts of the car. I get it once your used to the ZF this Aisin gearbox feels ancient to your stands but lets not kid ourselves its more of a bulletproof tranny though. Hopefully the manual on this is beefier than last gen throwout bearing issues.
@@iheartgs400 Reliability is important! Not sure if they changed the throw out. They didn’t mention it specifically, but they did discuss how the transmission has been beefed up to handle the additional torque. They completely understand who the audience is for these cars and they except people will mod them.
@@revmatchtv I actually want to know how the clutch feedback is overall, I had a chance to drive a manual previous gen and just got turned off by its vague/inconsistent clutch pedal feedback not as consistent as Honda clutches.
Frs manual owner here. I really have to consider the auto this time. The new car is powerful enough to handle it and the manual driving experience includes tob failure for no extra cost.
I didn't understand what the comments were saying about Mark and Jack disagreeing but that was seriously some like... Old school top gear levels of arguing. I loved it, more of that please.
I test drove one of these two days ago and I was really blown away. Such an incredible driving feel. The steering was a bit numb on center compared to something like an old hydraulic steering BMW, but my god the way this car changes direction is telepathic. I really had the impression that the CoG was super low. The turn in was amazing and the power (in the rain and traffic) was more than enough to have fun. I drove the base model and the stereo was horrible, but the rest of the interior was acceptable. I really want one. The one BIG complaint I have is that the car should have been a lift back for better cargo capacity. The utility of this thing seems horrible. Better than a Miata sure, but that’s the lowest possible bar. My bicycle is more practical than a flippin’ Miata.
It's really not that bad: I've fit some fairly large (think international multi-week traveling) hard suitcases into the back of the BRZ. Sure, you're not gonna move assembled furniture or big bags for multiple people, but it's totally fine for any kind of normal day-to-day tasks.
I have a 2018 brz and I'm torn between keeping it and getting a 400z to add to my addiction or selling it and getting a new BRZ/86 depending on future changes they make to their tuning
that's why I'm considering signing up for 84 months of payments so I don't miss out on it before we're all forced to buy cars that have to be charged for hours and hours while one has to figure out how to pass the time while the batteries are being charged...
thankyou for your no bullshit no coverup talk about transmissions and comparing other cars, literally this is the only channel that gives you the truth for consumers, pls do more of this! Thank you
Thanks for including that near-pullover moment at 4:26. The lower-limit street cars let you have all the fun without going to jail. A Porsche would've been risking jail or a reckless driving citation at that same moment.
Hi, it is me, the car enthusiast with the physical disability I like your comparison to the old sporty 4 bangers where you HAD to have a manual to enjoy them. Thats why i got out of my automatic integra haha
Great video guys. It was interesting to hear how quiet this new BRZ was on the road. I remember my ‘03 WRX wagon being like a tin can inside with road and wind noise. I ended up adding a ton of sound mats to the doors and hatch area - then ripped of the stock exhaust and down pipe and went full turbo back so that the only sound I heard was the the great Subaru burble. This BRZ could be an interesting weekend car and let me get back into tinkering with cars again.
I’m curious on how this will do on track against its competitors. Not only Miatas but the hot hatches in the same price point like the Golf gti, Hyundais N cars and the Type R. What it loses in power it makes up in weight and balance of that FR setup.
I know you probably want the opinions of Savagegeese specifically, but I highly recommend checking out Jason Cammisa’a video on Hagarty’s TH-cam channel where he compares it to the ND2 and mk8 GTI, if you haven’t already
The hot hatch press cars for track tests are mostly equipped with extreme semi slick tires. There probably won't ever be a test with press cars on comparable tires.
Zwivhuya Sivhabu When this car costs at least 10k less than the average new car sold today, it is very reasonably priced. You're just a guy who didn't do well in school to get a decent paid job
"There's nothing else like this anymore". It's sad but true. It's the reason I grabbed a new 2020 86 in the middle of covid. I'd never owned a RWD vehicle in my life and loved the 240s from a distance and was afraid that cars like this won't be made anymore thanks to BEVs and SUVs.
Jack, DO NOT give anyone a hard time for buying this car, automatic or not. I would get a manual but these buyers could be getting a SUV/CUV instead. Give them some credit for keeping a car like this alive regardless of transmission. .
These reviews are way too funny sometimes, that bit towards the end where Jack just aggressively goes for the door handle while that cars still moving and he's still buckled in is just great.
I love watching these two argue, it's gold. What I still don't understand for the life of me is hearing people complain about how automatic transmissions don't respond when downshifted after getting a button pressed or whatever. I'm not that old, but I'm not that young either, but the almost foolproof way to get an automatic to downshift is to FLOOR THE THROTTLE, problem solved. You're never gonna get the response as you will when properly double de-clutching a manual, but the car is gonna go mostly when you ask it to. If it stops doing that, you know that your automatic is about to take a dump. The best thing about this automatic is that if driven more or less responsibly, it's gonna last, PERIOD. I'm seriously considering buying this car after it's released and if so, it'll be the first BRAND NEW and probably last, new car I'll ever own, and of course it's gonna be a proper manual, which is always better. But please, stop complaining about shift quality with an automatic transmission when shifted with the little buttons. If you wanna manually change gears, get the three pedal one! And if not, that's also fine, hence the term AU-TO-MA-TIC, which does the chore of changing gears for you! Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...
I had to order an Automatic due to a right shoulder surgery. With that in mind I am beyond excited to be getting a 2024 BRZ Limited in Silver with an Automatic Transmission.
Interesting talk RE the automatic. I would love to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the old one’s automatic, which was generally thought to be a good one as far as traditional autos go. (For those of us who spend 90% of our driving in urban areas, and a huge portion of that in traffic, but still want fun when the opportunity presents itself… The auto is still a consideration.)
the automatic is good, they are just being pedantic. i would not want a cheaply designed dct with reliability concerns. the aftermarket will soon provide a flash to make it downshift faster.
Good presentation. "There's nothing else like this anymore". When I bought my 2020 BRZ my wife asked if I was going to test drive it. I did not and asked what's the point, there's nothing I'm cross shopping it with (we both didn't like the styling on the prior gen 86). That said, limit handling matters to me, even for street driving. The prior gen BRZ was one-dimensional in its handling character. I'll be going with the GR86 on the next go around.
The GR86 arrives later and probably will have more mark-ups versus the subaru. I think one option here is to just get the BRZ first, then swap out the rear spring with 86's spring, that probably won't cost much.
I also miss the rounded central vents from the old BRZ. The new central vent area looks like it came from a 2005 Corolla. Sure they made a new opening center armrest, but it's so low down and the padding is so thin that it might as well not be there.
you guys are Hands down make the best pair and it shows in your videos, you guys have actually have counter each out well and rag on each others which really make it a lot of fun to watch... Keep up the good work !!!!!
Maybe I missed it but did they use the paddle shifters at all with the automatic transmission? I'm curious if they left it full auto mode or also overrode it.
Love the review. Nice to see total honesty! I have the Miata RF that you mention from time to time. It's a great car, but they got the pedal-arrangment wrong on it, and it is annoying. The Accel-pedal is 1" closer to driver than dead pedal and angled too steep. I hope the BRZ is better in that regard. It seems that only Porsche can get that right, and it is sooo important. I do admit that the RF has a nice stereo and nimble daily feel as you mentioned in the last vid. Just wish the engine ran like the old V-Tecs!
@@wayward03 Agreed. I tried to crack CANBUS on a porsche and it was insane. I miss the 1990 era Hondas. I was an installer back then and loved the ease of popping panels and so on.
@@Buxtonphil "uneven" doesn't get better with thinner shoes. Unless you wear driving shoe on right foot only! LOL! But in a car where one review put it as, "get the proper leg position and your back hurts, get the proper back position and your legs hurt". Meaning that there is not enough actual room to play with (outside of the asian market, where 5'5" is the norm). The criticism here is that it is very easy to set the pedals correctly, as porsche has done for years. Mazda pulled a pedal from a parts bin and here we are. I've already created a bracket to give me approx that 1" of extra space, but mazda should have just made it right from the factory. From the driver's seat, my GT3 feels like a lexus compared to my RF..
You know times have changed when a premier of a sports car main point of contention is the transmission. I agree with both of you. Yes manual is the way to go....but today's automatics are NOTHING like a 2001 V6 Mustang. I love you guys.
One of the first convertibles I've driven was a 1990 Mustang V6. Wasn't the firmest feeling car and tempered my wanting a convertible until I drove a Miata.
I'll never understand why so many americans feel like dailying a manual is a pain in the ass. (Edit: of course in some regions it is) Sure, if you don't like it, you don't like it. But here in germany most people, even my grandma, drive normal cars with manual transmissions, shifting just becomes second nature and you don't even think about it. Buying an affordable fun sportscar with an automatic seems like such a weird thing to do, it's more expensive, it's (probably) less reliable and more expensive if it breaks, and in this case it's even slower.
In Europe, auto is considered a luxury option. In USA, manual is the luxury option.. u only see high take rates on M3s, and GT3s but then America has by far the highest percent of those German cars being sold as manuals
Have you driven in America? Horrible traffic where I am. A manual is just a pain in the ass in bumper to bumper traffic. I drive a manual but I completely understand why people drive autos here.
@@andrewable2634 Yeah I have, Jessup PA and Kingsport TN, not very different from germany, much bigger roads and smoother traffic than the rural part of germany I live in. I understand if people in big cities rather opt for autos, but in the US it's generally not a thing for most normal cars.
My first car (in Canada), was a 2019 EcoBoost Mustang 10 speed Auto with the Performance Pack. I paid $27k CAD for it. The old gal ran 0-60 in 5.1s (timed) and my Magnaflow exhaust popped and bang like a turbo coupe should. The front end on the stang was a bit vague but once you got use to it, she was plenty fast for street duty. If I were to buy my first car again, I don't think I will be able to pick a BRZ over a little pony... No matter how good it is on the track.
I looked at the Mustand Ecoboost when I was shopping for my car, but I just can't drive automatic and the manual Mustang has the clutch really badly placed for me. I keep hitting it when I try to put my foot on the footrest. I also didn't like the interior of the car. Doesn't help that a lot of Ford dealers here in Quebec are really bad... In the end, I'm driving a BRZ and I like it a lot. And if you wanna race me on a drag strip, I have my Z900 for that :P
I had a first-gen BRZ for 3.5 years and ended up in an Ecoboost premium. It’s a much better car overall and I would take it 9/10 over the BRZ unless I was on track. Much faster, better comfort, but much more vauge/disconnected steering.
A little disappointed in Mark's dismissal of shortcomings because "no one's going to keep this stock." In addition to this not being true, an acceptable As-Is level at sale seems like a minimum.
Thank you for the review of the auto version and for giving it a fair chance. Sure it's not a DCT, but it's still better than the CVT that Subaru puts in the new WRX. Also, how does the ADAS behave? Is it intrusive like some systems?
dude, just walk in and try asking for msrp out the door, this generally works at larger dealerships and if you cant meet at a price with them then just leave...
Love the argument about the transmissions lol. Ive never had an issue driving automatics, because I mainly like cruising, however I do understand why people love manuals so much, because its truly an engaging experience and you are in total control. However, if the car is a sports car, and my main commuter, I just prefer an automatic, regardless of less power/engagement. It really just comes down to personal preference
When you guys disagree, we, the viewers, get a much more nuanced and interesting understanding of the topic at hand. Love it. Too many reviewers feel they need to present a "single cohesive opinion"...
Jack disliked the transmission about as much as an Arby's roast beef sandwich. 😂
zksHPuPngGs61kNJ - Well said and much agreed!
Too many reviewers act like everything is awesome because they don't want to hurt their relationship with OEM's, I don't blame them but I could just as easily read the brochure and get the same value from it. So thank you Goose.
It's much more entertaining too. But only do this when your opinions truly differ
Word!
Countdown until Mark and Jack get pulled over for having a domestic dispute while getting sideways in a rwd coupe at 90 MPH.
Yep, cause most times, Mark can't handle Jack when he goes full silverback gorilla on him!
Please dont jynx this XD
@@markymarc136 lmao
I feel like this is the only channel that knows how to review cars. Every car is reviewed for what it is and for the purpose it was designed to serve; I really appreciate that. Other reviewers would complain it isn’t “luxurious enough” or doesn’t have a panoramic sunroof 🙄
*cough *cough *redline reviews *cough
Or do the sun visor test...🙄
TBF, a panoramic sunroof would be nice.
I know right!!!
@@johndorling2118 not for this car, its a cheap, fun sports car, not a porsche or a luxurious cruiser and its bad for the center of grafity too
Trust me on this, when you guys don't agree on something, it is even more fun to watch.
This is the spice of a good video. Any video.
FACT
hyundai trans DCT is total crap after 4 years.
@@newchannel1220 Thank goodness they have a 10-year warranty, then.
@@tim3172
if they actually honor the warranty why they are getting sued????
Hyundai Class Action Says DCT Transmissions Are Defective
Hyundai class action lawsuitA Nevada couple is suing Hyundai over an alleged transmission defect that causes the accelerator to become unresponsive in certain vehicles leading to spontaneously stalling.
Plaintiffs Nicholas and Shawna Wylie filed the complaint Tuesday seeking to represent a group of consumers who purchased or leased any Hyundai Veloster, Sonata or Elantra vehicle equipped with a 7-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission (DCT).
@@tim3172 many times, the hyundai dealership won't honor the warranty, it's useless.
"Just because it's not in California doesn't mean it's not true" -- LOVE IT. :D
I loved the jolly aspect of this episode, the disagreements and the laughters. You guys are great! Keep these videos coming!
You know, I'm not gonna rag on the automatic. I'm not going to diminish anyone that gets one of these in an automatic. In the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's we were awash with small-to-smallish 2 door cars that could be had with a manual or automatic. I had 4 cylinder Mazda MX-6 with an automatic/I had a 6 cylinder Ford Probe with a 5 speed stick. Same car basically, but with wildly different personalities and driver experience. There were manual/automatic Mitsubishis, Honda Preludes, Mercury Cougars, Ford Thunderbirds, Toyota Celicas....Hyundai Scoupe's? Saturn SC's? I don't know whatever.
Point being; All of that is gone now in the 2 door form. You can get a Mustang or Challenger or Camaro today that'll barely fit in a garage with their size. Or you can get one of the few remaining FWD hot hatches, which are objectively Not Coupes. But something like this and the GR... I'm glad they offer it in a MT/AT form. I'm glad it's still compact compared to todays cars. I'm glad it sends the power to the rear wheels. Fuck it. Buy an automatic if you daily in gridlock traffic and have to navigate horrendous parking structures. You can let your mom with the knee replacement surgery use it in a pinch if she needs to. Buy a manual if that's your thing and it enhances your driving fun so much. Who cares? Buy it regardless because there's so little out there in the small 2 door car segment. Soon there will be none. And we'll miss the days when we even had the chance to buy an automatic BRZ/GR86.
Me suffering in my 18 brz from 9 hour drives.
The Z and Supra are obvious alternatives to American coupes
I was so complaining about $30k sticker price when it first came out in 2013. 7 years fast forward now it is the most affordable rear sports car which survived the sports car genocide. Kudos to Subaru/Toyota and the community
The working man's Porsche 😊
Miata??
@@ADUSN lol that's not a car, that's a go cart
@@Denverian Mature response
The level of enjoyment I get watching these despite little to no interest in some of the cars being reviewed is a real testimony to the quality of the production and the entertaining chemistry between Mark and Jack.
Smh
The transmission part of the video was hilarious, as a Euro guy who considers automatics in cars like this as heresy. Then again this automatic doesn't look that bad and overall the BRZ looked like a solid daily driver
To me it's hilarious that they made it look like a stick. They know who they're trying to sell this to
Im 29 and never driven an automatic in my life, from a euro country too. Idk wtf would need to happen to buy this in an automatic
@@dwade3202 well some folks just dgaf about the transmission just want a cheap enjoyable car to drive. Don’t get me wrong I still want ppl to learn manual but we all gotta be thankful this damn platform is still alive.
@@dwade3202 To buy it? Well you would need to hate cars and driving. You would also need to lose your mind.
@@iHaveTheDocuments who here has driven an auto and a manual 86? I've owned both and both make sense depending on the usage. No one cares about what looks cool on the internet, it's all about the real world use cases.
I've been waiting on a review of the auto brz/86 so thank you. As a part of the 1%(presumably) of sports car fans who legit cant operate a clutch due to disability this is pretty important to me. Hopefully I can afford one used before ICE's get banned lol
Pretty awesome that there’s not much drivetrain loss!
ICE wont get banned, we are 8 billion fuckin people. Why would some politicians who are getting paid by billionaire polluting corporations decide wtf we do
@@dwade3202 because they already do?
There is nothing to "lol" about the prospect of internal combustion engines being banned.
@@3ducs do you not know that "lol" isnt only used when laughing?
I love when you guys have real banter between yourself it's what makes the channel so great!
Canadian Thanksgiving so I'm actually home to watch this right away! Yet another thing to be thankful for! Thank you for another great video. Cheers!!
Your name is Earl. Happy Thanksgiving, brah.
Symmetrical RWD sticker coming in midyear refresh. Mr Goose sounds so happy in this video, therefore this is a good car.
Hahaha yes! Goose does get a bit pissy when the car is not upto his standards.
hes even happier in the g86 and VW GTI
Best feature is the cop at 4:28 didn't pull you over, because you can't be going that fast after all in a BRZ.
epic
I got 245km/h in a stock brz, typically tho I'll reach 230-235km/h (2018 manual). My buddies 2015 civic SI didn't reach that when sped
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 the time it takes to get there my genesis coupe will already be in the next city lol.
@@MJT-DA didn't take that long on a long empty highway early COVID lol. Remember the peak torque is at 6200 rpm which is basically around 230-240 km/h range in that year (4.3 final drive vs 4.1 in the older models)
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 Lmao thats true I respect brz owners especially those that can embarrass those cocky hellcat owners exiting the highway after since they can't corner. But i live in Northern Ontario we don't have much twisties so I bought the genesis coupe 2.0T instead for the 274hp out of the box. And i can through on a larger turbo without changing anything and add more power. However if I lived in Southern Ontario with country roads fk the hyundai.
"SEND DEATH THREATS TO JACK DIRECTLY" I was laughing so hard I bit my tongue! Great stuff, gentlemen.
How the hell do you laugh 🤣
"... you may be entitled to compensation."
Thanks for doing this video. As someone with a knee injury and pushing a clutch down or holding it at the engagement point actually causes pain after a few times- it's great to see automatics being included in 'fun' cars like this. I miss my old MT Skyline and haven't really looked at affordable 'sporty' cars due to their exclusivity with manuals but this BRZ/GR86 is the first time I feel I won't be losing too much on the experience.
Bummer that happened to you. Have you tried a different car? I get leg pain sometimes too, but only in cars with upright seating positions like a sedan or truck. But I'm fine if I sit low in a sports car and get to push the clutch on a straighter angle.
The Miata can be had with an automatic. It’s actually a pretty decent unit.
Ever since I started watching Savagegeese, the women in my life have stopped asking me why I keep a dozen Big Macs in my glove box. Great video guys! Not looking forward to Jack's thoracotomy from that seatbelt tho.
Swap big macs for beef and cheddars, then same man.
It made me feel so much better when Jack briefly acknowledged people with disabilities getting automatics instead of manual. I have to explain it all the time that it's not safe for me to drive stick due to nerve damage
As long as you can handle the gear stick the clutch can be automated. So you don't need to feel bad about being disabled. If you really want you can still drive a manual with a button operated clutch
That’s understandable yet I cringe when I say that. Most people wouldn’t acknowledge it because it’s the rare exception. There are always rare exceptions to everything but we can’t acknowledge them all - but people use that this days as a bludgeon..
In regard to you personally, try not to care. Anyone who really truly cares about what transmission you choose is a bit of an overbearing idiot lol.
Transmission jokes aside, remember what he said, 70% of sales are automatics for the 86/BRZ. Let that sink in. Stop complaining about the automatic, unless you yourself have purchased a brand new manual transmission version. If you haven't done that, your opinion literally means nothing to Toyota/Subaru because you aren't going to buy the car anyway. Buying used doesn't count. The manufacturers only get paid when you buy new, and it's new car buying trends that they must cater to in order to sell cars.
I love my manual cars but will not deny the fact that having it as an option likely kept the platform going especially on the 86 side over 2/3 were solid automatic.
I thought he said 70% of sales were manual
@@michaelwakim2198 for the BRZ yes, not for the FRS/86
Yeah, Subaru themselves said the brz tended to have a higher manual take rate than the 86 by a wide margin. I'm thinking they got those numbers from Toyota.
@@Tiny_Speck Interesting. Wonder if it's because the demographics for the BRZ was older and were more used to driving stick.
Appreciate Mark trying to defend the automatic lol
I really am glad to hear what he thought of the Miata Auto too. I am getting one to take my parents to track days. They love my car stuff and I think an Auto is a sacrifice worth having for RWD
I'm pretty sure anyone buying these in auto knows they're better with 3 pedals, but it's about personal preference at the end of the day, and if they're happy with the auto then let it be. Who cares what someone else does with their money.
@@googleleavemynamealone9145 The 6AT really kills the fun when I test drove the ND2 miata. It always tries to upshift and save fuel. I then drove the 6MT ND2 RF to compare the difference. It felt significantly more lively and fast.
@@bush4721 Yeah but my parents aren't going to know any of that.
Even the screen in the Miata is going to super impress them LOL
All our cars are luckily from the golden era, LS460 sport, Forester XT, TL Type-s ect.
So really anything new is going to be great and a Miata, well you just aren't sure how much longer that kind of car is going to exist, and it's so easy for them. Worth it, plus at SCCA it's easy for anyone to hop in for scouting parade laps etc
A rare spectacle
I’ve been typing in 2022 BRZ looking for this almost every day since you uploaded the GR86 video
As ever, the most insightful reviews available. The disagreement over the automatic really demonstrated the pros and cons of that transmission. I'm glad it's an option, because it broadens the buying base. But I will drive manuals as long as I am able.
I look forward to see how this platform develops over time.
it will get amazing, brand new, exciting limited edition with different color, new wheels(bold assumption) and stickers. After 2 years small facelifting and updated stitching color.
After anothre 2 years probably something crazy like updated engine tuning giving 1.2hp more in the last 500rpm 😂😂😂
@@Angry-Lynx guess I’m more interested to see what the after market does for this vehicle. From and ND2 perspective they have done a ton to improve brakes, suspension, and N/A power. They have yet to come out with a BBR turbo solution.
Hopefully they will come out with a big brake upgrade, like Mazda does with the Recaro/Brembo package.
Waiting for supercharger kits and ecu tuning
Loved the transmission argument. Jack was so passionate. I thought the take rate for the manual in the BRZ was still well north of 50% though? Overall, still seems like a great package.
I thought the same and just did a quick google. Manual take rate for BRZ is 78%. Manual take rate for 86 is 33%. Weird, I know.
@@Hosz688 That's what I thought. Wonder if the most recent stats are different, but it makes sense to me. Subaru buyers are stick shift lovers.
@@802Garage Yea, Toyota is very big and mainstream. Makes sense they would have more Auto buyers and the 86 sold twice as much. Subaru is more of a niche and enthusiast focused brand just like Mazda. Though their starting to push that CVT too much.
I can’t believe anyone would buy either of these with an auto.
@@kc510 Much same.
Getting some Siskel & Ebert vibes for the in-car driving segment. Not sure if you're going for that, but seriously well done if you are - really enjoyed the back and forth, the passion displayed!
What’s a siskel & ebert?
@@2004cyrus a famous pair of movie critics that were active for many decades. You can find plenty of their videos on TH-cam
@@2004cyrus your millennial is showing bro.
@@xuimod oh I was joking hahah- I know one was chubby with glasses and one was tall and thin and balding and they were a duo from the 80’s & 90’s. I don’t live under a rock lmao. I am from Germany tho.
I recently bought a 2022 Veloster N ending my monumental journey trying to find one without a 3-7k markup. Good luck to all you BRZ/86 buyers, have patience and don't give up.
That markup is not bad at all comparing when I try to get a challenger but dealership still rackingn up the markup at 15k more
@@Carlos.Rivera Yea, their definitely not worried about not being able to sell them. All of the R/Ts are going low-mid 40s and Scats are going for over $50K. Meanwhile one of the local Ford dealers has plenty of discounted Mustangs. Almost went to get a loaded up Ecoboost with the 10-speed for $38K instead of ordering a BRZ.
Absolutely love your reviews. Love the honesty and focus on actual experience, mechanics, and drive-ability. I also appreciate the perspective from a regular person as well as from an enthusiast. And love the humor. Thanks again guys for a great video.
You guys have disagreed about things, so it isn't new. But the banter is usually short. This debate went on for minutes.
I like it. Please do more of this. Great vid.
Still number one on my list if I can secure more gainful employment. More inclined to buy the Toyota for sentimental reasons, but I'd be happy with either in manual. Hopefully that turn signal issue gets fixed.
A white one with black accents? Or an orange one?
labor should be cheaper than Subaru
@@wayward03 No time for a grey, black, or white one. Gotta be the orange.
would always get the toyota over the subaru too. i think it just looks a bit better, same thing as last gen
@@felixnurscher6017 It's funny how subjective it is. Last gen I thought the BRZ looked so much better, but this time I sliightly prefer the 86.
Great Dyno numbers again. I want one in manual, get headers, a tune, track pads, high temp brake fluid and 200 tread tires and then hit the track.
Try some lighter wheels and maybe a little weight reduction too like rear seat delete
With the right driver skill to match, it would be quick!
Bottom line…like the Miata it’s a car marketed to your little sister, middle aged creepers and track posers…
@@BERZERKERSV4 lol
@@BERZERKERSV4 Cool story, not true but hey people love fiction. I race at PPIR here in Colorado and I can't wait to get this on track.
That arguing made me feel that brosexual tension.
Chill with the intersectional imperialism
Just because you've got gay thoughts on your mind, doesn't mean they do.
@@DB-sd3cw underrated commentary
@@infidel900rr He is certainly projecting his own sick thoughts.
I loveee the genuine review instead of ass kissing review. Keep it up man!!! savagelevel100%
I thought the BRZ was the version to have of the original version. I still think it is. When these finally arrive in dealers I will gladly go and take a look at one. Thank you gentlemen.
"Sundial-style gearbox" I'm dying 😂😂😂 please more videos with Jack and Mark arguing
The only channel on TH-cam that actually goes into detail about everything. So helpful. The reason what I bought a 2020 SI
That starting shot at 0:07, slowly panning away 🔥
I appreciated finally seeing a review of the premium version instead of just the limited everywhere. Thank you!
The most underrated thing on this car is the port injection that comes from the factory. Coming from an Audi A3 Quattro owner, port injection is probably one of the best mods for a car. I was on the edge of buying one or not, but after seeing the car come with port injection, im definitely buying it
What does that do? It sounds interesting but I have no clue how it impacts or makes this better in any way?
Absolutely. No CVT, no turbo, and no direct injection-only means this car should ultimately prove more long-term reliable than any of the new turbo-DI offerings from Honda, Hyundai, VW, or anybody else. I really wish Toyota would allow Subaru to use their D-4S system on all Subarus, not just the BRZ.
@@vlj1133 honestly, the brz platform is something I really wish Subaru would dedicate more time to. There's definitely a lot more room for improvement on the car while still staying within the same price range.
Realistically, the only things Subaru could add to this new BRZ while still keeping it at a similar pricepoint would be better brakes/suspension, twenty more hp from this NA engine, the GR86's higher duckbill rear spoiler, and an updated infotainment system with sharper screen resolution.
In a nutshell, everything the BRZ will receive next year, or in the first refresh, minus the twenty additional hp. We won't be seeing more stock ponies anytime soon. There will definitely be a Brembo/Bilstein-style Performance Package option in the near future.
the car has both port and direct injection, that is what the 4-DS is. The 4D-S injection is something Toyota forced into this platform, Subaru didn't want it, because they wanted to use their own system. I read for some reason in early negotiations, Toyota made it basically mandatory for the project to go ahead, and it's literally one of the only mechanical components they do (along with the gearbox) while Subaru basically does everything else. All prior subaru engines were port only, but subaru has developed their own direct injection too. It's only FA20 and FA24 in BRZ/GR86 that has both the port and direct injection from 4-DS, while other new subarus, like new outback and new forester have subaru direct injection now. I don't know enough about it to be honest, but I heard some tuners complain that the direct injection makes it harder to tune, but if they have been experts on EJ's and other engines most of their career, it makes sense they know port inside out. I don't know enough about it to be honest, I read pros and cons etc.
I have been watching your videos since 2018, this is one of the best ones yet especially since I love the BRZ and 86. I have a tuned Civic Si but I wish I wish-- I could have bought a 1st gen. Now I am glad I waited. Will be buying the GR86 after 2-3 years on the market so they work out the kinks.
I drove both the auto and the manual back to back at Monticello Motor Club on track. The tuning of the auto is very disappointing on track. It’s very slow and reluctant to downshift. Upshifts are pretty good. Putting it in manual mode alleviates those complaints though. The actual shifts are reasonably quick, but this is no ZF 8HP.
On the street the auto is absolutely fine. No complaints at all. If you’re going yo track the car, get the manual. It’s superb. It’s smoother than the last generation and there’s no issue getting it into 4th as they’ve improved the synchros. I have a GR86 in order because I loved driving it. The suspension dynamics are excellent,
I owned an 15 FRS Auto once and I never had any issues on the downshifts of the car. I get it once your used to the ZF this Aisin gearbox feels ancient to your stands but lets not kid ourselves its more of a bulletproof tranny though. Hopefully the manual on this is beefier than last gen throwout bearing issues.
@@iheartgs400 Reliability is important! Not sure if they changed the throw out. They didn’t mention it specifically, but they did discuss how the transmission has been beefed up to handle the additional torque. They completely understand who the audience is for these cars and they except people will mod them.
@@revmatchtv I actually want to know how the clutch feedback is overall, I had a chance to drive a manual previous gen and just got turned off by its vague/inconsistent clutch pedal feedback not as consistent as Honda clutches.
@@revmatchtv hopefully the Fa24 oiling system is also stronger. Just saw too many FA20 fully bone stock with rod bearing issues.
How were you able to order one? Toyota hasn’t even released pricing….
I literally just watched the GR 86 video… PERFECT TIMING!
Frs manual owner here. I really have to consider the auto this time. The new car is powerful enough to handle it and the manual driving experience includes tob failure for no extra cost.
I didn't understand what the comments were saying about Mark and Jack disagreeing but that was seriously some like... Old school top gear levels of arguing. I loved it, more of that please.
It is very refreshing to have two affordable sports cars in the US that could be a daily driver. Thank you Subaru/Toyota!
I test drove one of these two days ago and I was really blown away. Such an incredible driving feel. The steering was a bit numb on center compared to something like an old hydraulic steering BMW, but my god the way this car changes direction is telepathic. I really had the impression that the CoG was super low. The turn in was amazing and the power (in the rain and traffic) was more than enough to have fun. I drove the base model and the stereo was horrible, but the rest of the interior was acceptable. I really want one. The one BIG complaint I have is that the car should have been a lift back for better cargo capacity. The utility of this thing seems horrible. Better than a Miata sure, but that’s the lowest possible bar. My bicycle is more practical than a flippin’ Miata.
It's really not that bad: I've fit some fairly large (think international multi-week traveling) hard suitcases into the back of the BRZ. Sure, you're not gonna move assembled furniture or big bags for multiple people, but it's totally fine for any kind of normal day-to-day tasks.
Manual or automatic, let's get it anyway before streets are fully infested with electric SUVs. #savethesportscars
I have a 2018 brz and I'm torn between keeping it and getting a 400z to add to my addiction or selling it and getting a new BRZ/86 depending on future changes they make to their tuning
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 From now, I think you may could consider to save your money to buy supercharged kit for your2018 brz.😎
that's why I'm considering signing up for 84 months of payments so I don't miss out on it before we're all forced to buy cars that have to be charged for hours and hours while one has to figure out how to pass the time while the batteries are being charged...
@@Snicker60515 aye don't go outside your means. This car will be around for a few years
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 you have an excellent point. I almost certainly won't buy one, but the idea is nice...
This is now my favorite savagegeese video. Thank you guys for what you do.
every car should come with a "Zero Bullshit" interior option
Thanks guys you are the best youtube review channel. I watched so many of your videos. My BRZ has finally arrived. Thank you again
perfect timing, coffee just finished
thankyou for your no bullshit no coverup talk about transmissions and comparing other cars, literally this is the only channel that gives you the truth for consumers, pls do more of this! Thank you
Thanks for including that near-pullover moment at 4:26. The lower-limit street cars let you have all the fun without going to jail. A Porsche would've been risking jail or a reckless driving citation at that same moment.
I love the lively banter! Truly fun to listen to.
Excellent review Mark! Loved the banter and difference of opinion. you and jack are the best no bullshit reviewers on youtube!
Still the best channel for in depth car reviews for normal people with modest bank accounts!!
Hi, it is me, the car enthusiast with the physical disability
I like your comparison to the old sporty 4 bangers where you HAD to have a manual to enjoy them. Thats why i got out of my automatic integra haha
Great video guys. It was interesting to hear how quiet this new BRZ was on the road. I remember my ‘03 WRX wagon being like a tin can inside with road and wind noise. I ended up adding a ton of sound mats to the doors and hatch area - then ripped of the stock exhaust and down pipe and went full turbo back so that the only sound I heard was the the great Subaru burble. This BRZ could be an interesting weekend car and let me get back into tinkering with cars again.
I’m curious on how this will do on track against its competitors. Not only Miatas but the hot hatches in the same price point like the Golf gti, Hyundais N cars and the Type R. What it loses in power it makes up in weight and balance of that FR setup.
Oh cmon. Any of those with 50hp more will destroy this.
I know you probably want the opinions of Savagegeese specifically, but I highly recommend checking out Jason Cammisa’a video on Hagarty’s TH-cam channel where he compares it to the ND2 and mk8 GTI, if you haven’t already
@@grahamstefaan Lap time comes from more than power only. And like the dyno results showed Toyota and Subaru might be downplaying the power figures.
@@pkennethv I saw that video its a truly great piece.
The hot hatch press cars for track tests are mostly equipped with extreme semi slick tires. There probably won't ever be a test with press cars on comparable tires.
Savagegeese: Subaru BRZ is a car anyone can afford
My wallet: You're not everyone
when the average new car costs $44k this is a very affordable car.
Zwivhuya Sivhabu When this car costs at least 10k less than the average new car sold today, it is very reasonably priced. You're just a guy who didn't do well in school to get a decent paid job
@@smilepermile8165 Maybe he has a house and family to take care of
"There's nothing else like this anymore".
It's sad but true. It's the reason I grabbed a new 2020 86 in the middle of covid. I'd never owned a RWD vehicle in my life and loved the 240s from a distance and was afraid that cars like this won't be made anymore thanks to BEVs and SUVs.
Jack, DO NOT give anyone a hard time for buying this car, automatic or not. I would get a manual but these buyers could be getting a SUV/CUV instead. Give them some credit for keeping a car like this alive regardless of transmission. .
These reviews are way too funny sometimes, that bit towards the end where Jack just aggressively goes for the door handle while that cars still moving and he's still buckled in is just great.
Men! That was entertaining. It's great to see you disagree and not "dancing ballet softly" like other reviewers. That was real. Keep that great work
I just love how 1 car's transmission gets Jack fired up, and sparks an argument for quite a while, lol.
I love watching these two argue, it's gold. What I still don't understand for the life of me is hearing people complain about how automatic transmissions don't respond when downshifted after getting a button pressed or whatever. I'm not that old, but I'm not that young either, but the almost foolproof way to get an automatic to downshift is to FLOOR THE THROTTLE, problem solved. You're never gonna get the response as you will when properly double de-clutching a manual, but the car is gonna go mostly when you ask it to. If it stops doing that, you know that your automatic is about to take a dump. The best thing about this automatic is that if driven more or less responsibly, it's gonna last, PERIOD.
I'm seriously considering buying this car after it's released and if so, it'll be the first BRAND NEW and probably last, new car I'll ever own, and of course it's gonna be a proper manual, which is always better. But please, stop complaining about shift quality with an automatic transmission when shifted with the little buttons. If you wanna manually change gears, get the three pedal one! And if not, that's also fine, hence the term AU-TO-MA-TIC, which does the chore of changing gears for you!
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...
Heard the only preorders were Hot Topic mangers. I can’t wait to take delivery!
“Tell me you’re a Hot Topic Mgr - without telling me you’re a Hot Topic Mgr -
Matt went first”
I had to order an Automatic due to a right shoulder surgery. With that in mind I am beyond excited to be getting a 2024 BRZ Limited in Silver with an Automatic Transmission.
Jack: Time to get into the final thoughts.
Mark: Yes please. GET OUT!
LMFAO 🤣
By a country mile, the best car reviews on the interweb.
Interesting talk RE the automatic. I would love to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the old one’s automatic, which was generally thought to be a good one as far as traditional autos go.
(For those of us who spend 90% of our driving in urban areas, and a huge portion of that in traffic, but still want fun when the opportunity presents itself… The auto is still a consideration.)
They covered that. Are you deaf?
the automatic is good, they are just being pedantic. i would not want a cheaply designed dct with reliability concerns. the aftermarket will soon provide a flash to make it downshift faster.
Even when you guys are at odds, you still have great onscreen chemistry. Keep up the great work you guys 👍
saw the cop at 4:27 and freaked out for you at first, then I realized there's no way you're going that fast in a BRZ
My wife wants a new one. We had a 2015 a couple years ago and she loved it and it is still a car she misses.
Good presentation. "There's nothing else like this anymore". When I bought my 2020 BRZ my wife asked if I was going to test drive it. I did not and asked what's the point, there's nothing I'm cross shopping it with (we both didn't like the styling on the prior gen 86).
That said, limit handling matters to me, even for street driving. The prior gen BRZ was one-dimensional in its handling character. I'll be going with the GR86 on the next go around.
The GR86 arrives later and probably will have more mark-ups versus the subaru. I think one option here is to just get the BRZ first, then swap out the rear spring with 86's spring, that probably won't cost much.
@@subatomicmolecules styling is subjective, but i personally think the Brz looks more understated and premium.
Best video for a long time guys. Poor Jack🤣
Been waiting for this!
Absolutely love your reviews.
I also miss the rounded central vents from the old BRZ. The new central vent area looks like it came from a 2005 Corolla. Sure they made a new opening center armrest, but it's so low down and the padding is so thin that it might as well not be there.
you guys are Hands down make the best pair and it shows in your videos, you guys have actually have counter each out well and rag on each others which really make it a lot of fun to watch... Keep up the good work !!!!!
Love the quality of these videos hopefully y'all get around to the 2022 WRX soon
Maybe I missed it but did they use the paddle shifters at all with the automatic transmission? I'm curious if they left it full auto mode or also overrode it.
Love the review. Nice to see total honesty! I have the Miata RF that you mention from time to time. It's a great car, but they got the pedal-arrangment wrong on it, and it is annoying. The Accel-pedal is 1" closer to driver than dead pedal and angled too steep. I hope the BRZ is better in that regard. It seems that only Porsche can get that right, and it is sooo important. I do admit that the RF has a nice stereo and nimble daily feel as you mentioned in the last vid. Just wish the engine ran like the old V-Tecs!
Thankfully stereo is fairly easy to fix on most cheap cars
@@wayward03 Agreed. I tried to crack CANBUS on a porsche and it was insane. I miss the 1990 era Hondas. I was an installer back then and loved the ease of popping panels and so on.
its a problem even with driving shoes?
@@Buxtonphil "uneven" doesn't get better with thinner shoes. Unless you wear driving shoe on right foot only! LOL! But in a car where one review put it as, "get the proper leg position and your back hurts, get the proper back position and your legs hurt". Meaning that there is not enough actual room to play with (outside of the asian market, where 5'5" is the norm). The criticism here is that it is very easy to set the pedals correctly, as porsche has done for years. Mazda pulled a pedal from a parts bin and here we are. I've already created a bracket to give me approx that 1" of extra space, but mazda should have just made it right from the factory. From the driver's seat, my GT3 feels like a lexus compared to my RF..
You know times have changed when a premier of a sports car main point of contention is the transmission. I agree with both of you. Yes manual is the way to go....but today's automatics are NOTHING like a 2001 V6 Mustang. I love you guys.
One of the first convertibles I've driven was a 1990 Mustang V6. Wasn't the firmest feeling car and tempered my wanting a convertible until I drove a Miata.
Great review guys….ordering a spring delivery manual sport tech with the 17” wheels here in Ontario Canada ..going to be a long winter waiting
They are ready to order ???
I'm in Nova Scotia and my dealer have no clue what's happening
The BRZ (base) gets the 17s with Primacy tires. The Sport-tech gets 18s with the PS4 tires.
@@bradevans1661 I stand corrected ..my bad
@@gobear83 All good. I planned the car for Canada so I should know! Ha. Hope you like it!
@@bradevans1661 …still trying to get a ride in one …before I pull the trigger ….had a 2013 BRZ only car lm sorry I sold
I just got a 2017 86 so ima be looking at this for a few years. Great vids as always
I'll never understand why so many americans feel like dailying a manual is a pain in the ass. (Edit: of course in some regions it is)
Sure, if you don't like it, you don't like it. But here in germany most people, even my grandma, drive normal cars with manual transmissions, shifting just becomes second nature and you don't even think about it. Buying an affordable fun sportscar with an automatic seems like such a weird thing to do, it's more expensive, it's (probably) less reliable and more expensive if it breaks, and in this case it's even slower.
Because driving in America is very different than driving in Germany
In Europe, auto is considered a luxury option. In USA, manual is the luxury option.. u only see high take rates on M3s, and GT3s but then America has by far the highest percent of those German cars being sold as manuals
Have you driven in America? Horrible traffic where I am. A manual is just a pain in the ass in bumper to bumper traffic. I drive a manual but I completely understand why people drive autos here.
I guess you haven’t visited Los Angeles and Southern CA come here and you’ll see horrid traffic
@@andrewable2634 Yeah I have, Jessup PA and Kingsport TN, not very different from germany, much bigger roads and smoother traffic than the rural part of germany I live in.
I understand if people in big cities rather opt for autos, but in the US it's generally not a thing for most normal cars.
My first car (in Canada), was a 2019 EcoBoost Mustang 10 speed Auto with the Performance Pack. I paid $27k CAD for it. The old gal ran 0-60 in 5.1s (timed) and my Magnaflow exhaust popped and bang like a turbo coupe should. The front end on the stang was a bit vague but once you got use to it, she was plenty fast for street duty. If I were to buy my first car again, I don't think I will be able to pick a BRZ over a little pony... No matter how good it is on the track.
I looked at the Mustand Ecoboost when I was shopping for my car, but I just can't drive automatic and the manual Mustang has the clutch really badly placed for me. I keep hitting it when I try to put my foot on the footrest. I also didn't like the interior of the car. Doesn't help that a lot of Ford dealers here in Quebec are really bad... In the end, I'm driving a BRZ and I like it a lot. And if you wanna race me on a drag strip, I have my Z900 for that :P
I had a first-gen BRZ for 3.5 years and ended up in an Ecoboost premium. It’s a much better car overall and I would take it 9/10 over the BRZ unless I was on track. Much faster, better comfort, but much more vauge/disconnected steering.
Did no one at Subaru and Toyota notice during design that the taillights look exactly like Honda Civic taillights.
Accord Coupe Tail lights also
Commenting for the algorithm. Awesome review as always and love the banter from you guys :)
A little disappointed in Mark's dismissal of shortcomings because "no one's going to keep this stock." In addition to this not being true, an acceptable As-Is level at sale seems like a minimum.
The only review channel to watch.
Thank you for the review of the auto version and for giving it a fair chance. Sure it's not a DCT, but it's still better than the CVT that Subaru puts in the new WRX. Also, how does the ADAS behave? Is it intrusive like some systems?
2:41 "Alphaville - Big In Japan". Nice attention to detail, well done.
I was impressed with the automatic back in a MY2013 FR-S. Was still fun to drive.
youre not hard to impress then i gues 😁😂
I cant wait for u guys to really dig in on the new wrx
I can't wait for the 10K of dealer markup. Local dealers are already asking nearly 5K over sticker for AUTOMATIC Miatas in my area...
so far its msrp or below in most cases across the US
I was worried about that also. I Placed an order on MT limited with no package and only a home-link rear mirror. For 31,400. Auto-nation dealer.
dude, just walk in and try asking for msrp out the door, this generally works at larger dealerships and if you cant meet at a price with them then just leave...
Love the argument about the transmissions lol. Ive never had an issue driving automatics, because I mainly like cruising, however I do understand why people love manuals so much, because its truly an engaging experience and you are in total control. However, if the car is a sports car, and my main commuter, I just prefer an automatic, regardless of less power/engagement. It really just comes down to personal preference
"I want an automatic automatic" Jack
pretty good video guys. I enjoyed it. A fair amount of banter which is good. I like to hear all sides. Well done