@@a.j.carter2294 yeah probably and I don’t think anybody was going mouth to south back then without baby wipes , maybe in Mereen or Bravos but definitely not in Westeros .
My expectation is that the Greyscale wont really directly affect him other then adding psychological pressure to him due to him thinking his time is short which will end up pushing him to rush into his demise.
The plotline, as in who healed whom was dumb The plotline of: the Maesters hold back knowledge that would benefit the people of westeros, or even planetos, could be interesting if done by martin, and if given enough time to breathe..
@@holgerridder9814 that on the other hand i get... Sam (book and show) is always as brave as he needs to be...low stakes, or just himself on the line: coward! High stakes for someone he cares: superhero!
@@badyoutuber1986 definitely possible, it just seems like a very GRRM thing to do. Have him realize half his life was a lie before he goes fully insane
@@Lexxirthat’s true, but it would also be very GRRM to leave Aegon’s true lineage ambiguous. Was he truly the rightful king? Was he a pretender? Does it even matter, in the end?
We should remember that greyscale can spread internally as well, and that's what causes the madness, it hitting the brain. I think the _threat_ of is what will drive JonCon to take "shortcuts", Tywin-esque brutal shortcuts; we are already seeing that, and that moral descent will proceed and feed into the greyscale-induced madness itself. When Jon's already killed children and kin even before it has hit his brain, whatever other depravity must be easy when it gets to the brain. Maybe Jon will quietly try to get his hand injured in battle so he can amputate it with a good reason; he wouldn't be the only Hand with maimed hands, he'd be like Davos. Since he has no feeling in the afflicted parts, it might not even hurt, and Jon will think he is cured. All the while, the greyscale is spreading inside... Note though: stone men aren't sent to Valyria. That's in the dragon show. They're sent to the Sorrows up the Rhoyne, north of Volantis and nowhere near Valyria (this is why I do not care for the Gerion = Shrouded Lord theory in the slightest). I blame D&D.
i like the idea of jon connington as the reverse davos. Where Davos is basically Stannis’ jiminy cricket being his conscience for restraint Joncon will be the devil on Aegons shoulder pushing him to the extreme.
@7:01 "[Tyrion] had heard it said that there were three good cures for greyscale: axe and sword and cleaver. Hacking off afflicted parts did sometimes stop the spread of the disease, Tyrion knew, but not always. Many a man had sacrificed one arm or foot, only to find the other going grey. Once that happened, hope was gone."
Something I think important is that Jon's going to have a feeling of running out of time. He'll move more aggressively trying to put fAegon on the throne with this grey ticking time bomb. I think that will be his undoing.
Between Sam curing Jorah and the HotD-era maesters peeling Aegon's armor off, TV showrunners sure seem to think Westerosi medicine can enable people to survive without skin.
Conclusion: Since Jon Con ain't dying in Winds of Winter, and Dream of Spring is never coming out, Jon Con is immortal. So you have nothing to worry Quinn :)
It could be interesting if he starts to lose it a bit mentally during things like crucial battles and is unintentionally messing up Aegon’s plans. A reflection of him not being there to save rhaegar.
His grayscale is just starting. fingers. Why would it affect his mental health so fast when the disease is said to attack only after they've been mostly calcified?
@@NewoOwen7cause JonCon knows he's going to die, so he will start taking more extreme measures to get Aegon on the throne. The disease isn't on his brain (yet), but it will affect his mental state badly
@@joaodias8382 yeah everyone who has read the book and paid attention knows that. we're talking about the disease specifically causing it which is just not true since its progress is slow. He was already making rash decisions even in Essos when he instantly agreed with Aegon's plan.
Connington’s greyscale will progress as quickly as the drama requires. 😊 Thanks for the analysis. I too appreciate the Griffin’s presence in the Song. Awesome to have an opposing figure with political and military savvy. Also Tyrion not affected because of his half-Dragon ancestry, selected at character creation. 😮
I'm of the mind that he's going to use his grayscale as a weapon in the war as his "redemption" for the Bells. He'll probably not intend to cause an outbreak, but it could happen as a result of his actions, maybe infecting Aegon... or a dragon... so someone could wake it from stone? Or maybe Aegon could be the dragon awoken from stone? idk. Anyway, I feel like it's a very Martinian ending to have JonCon's downfall to be his guilt for not doing a war crime driving him to do something worse but he destroys everything.
So I think we should probably note that the growth of a contagion is likely to be exponential rather than linear. As more greyscale germs populate Jon's body, the spread will likely accelerate because there will be more points of contact. I wonder whether Jon's greyscale will be discovered by his troops after he starts infecting other people, and I wonder if people will know that he is patient zero. Or maybe Shireen's burning will create another greyscale outbreak and he will be able to avoid accountability for bringing it to Westeros. One thing is for sure, a lot of people are gonna get infected.
Apparently there’s a line of dialogue where they say chopping off the limb doesn’t guarantee the spreading will cease. Also the spreading would still happen anyway regardless for the disease 🦠 sake It would be considered bad writing if the greyscale ended up being a red herring
Well the infectious element is prolly in his bloodstream already. Maybe grayscale virus/bacteria/protista/fungi is only dangerous in a colony in this calcified structure yet i kinda doubt it.
Love the video! Any thoughts on the theory that Jon will destroy Kings Landing (like Tywin would) after Tommen somehow dies, as it's established that when the King dies they ring basically every bell in the city (like when Bobby and Joff died)?
@1:23 I mean the show DID emphasize that when Sam cures Jorah, it's the first recorded time ever that an adult has successfully been cured of Greyscale. The times it has been tried in the past, the patient wasn't cured, and often the person who did the procedure contracted Greyscale and died as well (Archmaester Ebrose even reminds Sam that the maester who invented the procedure that Sam did on Jorah died from Greyscale himself.) So it's not surprising that it hasn't been tried all that much either- sufferers of Greyscale are instead just shipped to Chroyane to live among the stone men*. The small sample size of times the Greyscale-curing procedure has even been tried WOULD logically further-reduce the number of times it has been a success. It's not impossible that such an experimental/hypothetical treatment exists in book canon in some of the medical texts at the Citadel and just hasn't been talked about yet, because in the show, it's so risky for the person doing the procedure Sam never even thinks of trying it on any of the patients until it's Jorah himself suffering from Greyscale, because Jorah is Jeor's son. And since in the books, it is JonCon and not Jorah who is infected, Sam is unlikely to pull a Leroy Jenkins trying to cure anyone with that procedure in TWoW or ADoS *(This is a difference between the books and the show. In the show, Stone Men haunt the ruins of Valyria, whereas in the books, Greyscale is also known as Garin's Curse because while Prince Garin of the Rhoynar was being held prisoner at the city he once ruled- Chroyane- as the Valyrians were pillaging it after defeating Garin's army, he called upon Mother Rhoyne to strike them down, and (allegedly) the Valyrian conquerors soon started falling ill with Greyscale, and ever since, Chroyane is where Greyscale sufferers are sent, and when boats traveling the Rhoyne pass under the Bridge of Dreams in Chroyane, which stretches over the Rhoyne, they have to be wary of mad Stone Men jumping onto their boat from the Bridge, which is exactly what happens to the Shy Maid in ADwD. Valyria meanwhile in the books is haunted by horrors far worse than Stone Men. We know of one of those horrors that caused the death of Aerea Targaryen, and another SOMETHING that was able to wound Balerion, and who knows what else is there that we don't have any information about.)
Problems with this: 1, the procedure as I remember it should not work for a disease like greyscale. Peeling off the scales on the skin does nothing to stop the infection spreading inside, which is the most dangerous part of it, so it's not a believable cure. 2, it was a pointless plot point. Jorah was only infected with greyscale because the show was haplessly trying to adapt JonCon's story, but without adding any of the other elements of it that made the disease impactful or having a plan for how it would affect the wider story, which then made the disease useless as a plot point. So they shipped Jorah off to Oldtown of all places, where he was primed to start an epidemic in one of the largest cities in the world, but then rushed to have Sam cure it in a couple of episodes, before the greyscale had had any impact on anyone at all, to then give Jorah a different plot line. This "cure" was hastily invented to excuse the writer's poor planning in even giving Jorah the disease in the first place when they didn't really know what they were going to do with it. Everything about this "cure" plot line feels fake and dumb because that's what it was. So they slap a stamp of "ooh this is the first known cure ever! With no negative consequences at all, like it never happened! Wow :))" which is the worst excuse in the world.
I think something along the lines of him fighting someone, in kings landing, around a well or water cistern of some sort, hand gets cut off during battle, hand flies into water supply, all while the bells ring... yes more JonCon please! Lol
The question isn't: how long does he have till he dies or goes mad, the question is, how long till someone finds out, or how long till he infects someone else... And that could be any day now...battles are not goid places if you want to socially distance...
I could see greyscale happening in the epilogue Like we get the perspective of a commoner who tells us what the world is like around them and any subtle line of dialogue could hint to the outbreak to happen in post I feel there has to be some post history to be written for what happens in the world after these events transpire; you know like what happens to certain houses and leaders. Example would be if it was written Doran passes in his sleep after losing his family and the years of swelling and pain eating him away Or that one house on the fingers and if they’ll actually get some kind of recognition if Stannis were to die and they let Davos sail to The Manderly’s
What if the stone skin folks turn out to be a weapon against white walkers. Connington and Jorah would both be armored knights. If the horn of winter lures them to the final battle. The statues of the Starks in the crypt also animate to fight the white walkers.
I'm very sure that JonCon is gonna spread grayscale through the stormlands and King's Landing by accident. When fAegon finds out, he'll be mad and maybe make some stupid decisions that lead to Dany showing up
It’s been ages since I’ve read any ASOIAF, what did you mean by Connington’s madness causing the Bells? Are you referring to the Bells as in the episode from S8? I may have missed something in the books or in fan theories
I did an old video about Greyscale specifically, I think I explain it there. Basically I think Connington is going to be the one to blow up King’s Landing - he has bell-related PTSD, and when they ring the bells to announce Aegon’s surrender or death he’ll go nuts and blow up the wildfire
Some people have been cured by cutting of the first afflicted limb and the maesters said that those who had been cured had undergone so many treatments th y didn't know which one helped
Where’d you get the dates for when the Jon Con chapters occur? I know the later books do a slightly better job at tracking the time than earlier ones, but I don’t recall any specific amounts of time passing being referenced for Jon Con in particular. Of course April being when the chapter with Tyrion takes place makes some sense, as that’s about 4 months after the purple wedding, I’m just curious how we know the Griffin reborn takes place two months after that.
You know I’ve watched a few (not all admittedly) of your videos, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a reason why Jon Con is your favorite. I’ll be honest, of the POV characters he’s the one I tend to forget most often. So I’d be interested in hearing the perspective of someone who has clearly been touched by the character. As to his eventual death. I don’t think it’ll happen until he realizes Young Griff isn’t truly Rhaegar’s son and he’s dedicated his life to a mummer’s dragon.
Nah, Asshai is Chernobyl(no kids, water and food poisoned, nothing grows, weird fauna). Valyria is Alien but with fire worms that eat people and dragons from inside out(rip Aerea Targaryen and Balerion). Greyscale is a curse onto Valyrians by rhoynish water wizards aka magic zombie virus. Ah, Westeros and its horrors.
Great video as usual, Also a major point you missed is if Jon managed to infect Aegon it could be a sign that he isn’t who Varys claims he is. As real Targaryens seem to be immune to greyscale.
@QuinnTheGM just curious did she have her own dragon? I know that in some cases targaryens have been "healed" of illness after getting a dragon. Edit: Not that it could cure something as great as greyscale.
Might not be a sign that Aegon isn't a Targaryen because no one believes that they can't get sick anymore. But it would sure throw a spanner in the works if your perfect prince is rotting from greyscale...
What do you guys think that “Half maester” guy is up to? He definitely doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who’d be selfless to support Griff and his guys
The main effect it's had on his character, and therefore the plot, is that it's made him reckless and impatient. Compare him to a character like Roose Bolton. Roose also feels the end of his life closing in, but he doesn't have any specific goals he wants to accomplish, so he's dedicated himself to a general course of action: climb as high as he can, as fast as he can, but as cautiously as he can, maximizing potential gains while minimizing loss, so as to leave behind the greatest possible legacy. Roose will do anything and everything within that course and won't do anything outside of it. Jon Con on the other hand has some very specific goals he wants to accomplish, and he'll do anything he can to see them realized before he dies. On page, we see he's willing to sacrifice the idea of marriage, personal gain in terms of land and wealth, and principles he once valued like the sparing of civilians and adhering to honorable behavior in war. It's his sense of desperation, imparted by the disease, that's driving his behavior now.
When Danny comes to Westeros she's gonna find a mad with power and mad in general Jon Connington. He'll do anything to keep (f)Aegon as king. He will burn and raze his enemies, and Danny would look like it was her dragons doing it instead. King's landing will not survive when Jon hears the bells.
I believe this as well, all the ground work & foreshadowing has been laid. Daenerys will come for King’s Landing with Fire & Blood unaware of an unhinged Connington, and their standoff will result in King’s Landing being destroyed. From Connington’s trauma over ringing bells, the caches of wildfire under the city, and the coming Second Dance of Dragons that should be above the city, it’s no surprise the outcome of KL. Daenerys burning the city would fit Martin’s love of tragic irony in his writing: Dany wins the throne at the cost of killing thousands. It wouldn’t matter if she came with best of intentions, POV characters & history would remember her as the Mad Queen but that legacy would be unfinished if Daenerys still has head North & unite with Jon Snow in the Battle for the Dawn.
You are assuming a linear rate of growth though. It could also be exponential growth, where it slowly creeps up until it suddendly covers it all Unlikely because GRRM doesn't seem to be good at Math but we don't know
Also I don’t think the greyscale has gone past his hand in fact I believe it has only Darkened his fingers to the knuckle. So he should cut it off, I certainly would, and yes he might not want to and there would be obvious comparisons between Jon and Orys Baratheon. Especially if he’s the hand but it’s simply the logical choice and yes he says there’s no way of knowing it won’t just pop up on his stub if he does it anyway but the odds that it doesn’t are just as good
I'd rather ask when someone notices his greyscale and he gets cast out/ killed. Or when does the illness affect his mind and he gets confronted about that. I mean he lived with it over a decade now😅
I think it’ll never be truly discovered who the source was BY THE MASSES. It’ll be rumored and hearsay. Used to blame certain parties and the like. We the readers and a few of Young Griff’s crew will know, but for the rest they will not (Complexity and all that)
Its alright he'll just go to the citadel and sam will do a quick patch job he finds in a book never mentioned before and perform it perfectly in one night
One valid theory is that Tyrion is a Targaryen and according to me at least if true may be why he didnt get greyscale while Connington did, because Targaryens seem to be at least more resistant to disieses than the common man.
I think he has a long time. It could be a year. JonCon has to destroy KL by filling the city with Wildfire for Dany to set off. But GRRM isn’t gonna write ADOS- which is supposed to be the same size as Winds- without King’s Landing.
💯 his chapters with Tirion are amazing! I just love how no nonsense he is! But his POV chapter is brilliant! That's ah man with ah mission! And the perfect tool for Vareys and the big Pentoshi guy whos name escapes me just now! Looking forward to this 👍🏻
the different fingertips touch each other externally. If it's a disease that can be spread by touch, which it can, then the fingers touching each other or any other body part is enough to spread it. Although it's likely that it spreads faster on the inside.
I always wondered why he didn’t just chop his hand off as soon as he knew he had contracted the greyscale. Surely he’d rather lose a hand or even a few fingers and still be around for Aegon long term.
Apparently they have a line of dialogue where that doesn’t guarantee it. Plus he’d be crippled, and it is possible that rumor might spread Course it isn’t being talked about how they sailed where the stone men are and considering how much the books hype how deadly grey scale is, it does come off as a tad silly that none of the Young Griff or the others one the ship just think they’re fine even after both Jon con and Tyrion fell like they did. They just seemed to think it couldn’t spread
Tyrion falling into the water is a, if not the penultimate, example of how Martin has made himself a hypocrite in his self proclaimed standards for fantasy writing; it’s as if that scene and the later greyscale reveal were written specifically to point out Tyrion’s Valyrian steel plot armor. The man was IN THE WATER, so he definitely drank it, and got literally molested by greyscale. If anyone should’ve gotten infected it was Tyrion.
I think Jon Connington will spread grayscale just like Henry VII, the real life counterpart to Daenerys/Young Griff, is suspected to bring the sweating sickness to England when he landed to end the War of the Roses.
This is odd-had Connington cut his fingers off, he would be half-hand. If he cuts the whole hand off..well, also fitting to a few other characters. Does everyone need a handless hand to be a King/Queen? Weird.
Maybe JonCon will challenge a knight from Tarly's host during the battle and deliberately allow that knight to chop his hand off. Oh no, what a shame, I lost my hand! Oh well! ;)
Apparently it’s not guaranteed. Also there’s a line to suggest that the “Shrouded lord” can seemingly decide if greyscale spreads And on top of that, grey plaques have broken out in the past and rumored to in places like Yi Tee and in the past like in Old Town.
Mfers when they don't tell you they got bitten by a zombie.
Never gonna stop finding excuses to talk about Jon Con I see😭
Excuse are like b-holes. Jon Connington can’t get enough of them.
@@therumjiggler6879 Straight up roasted eeyyyyyyooooo
@@therumjiggler6879 Nah, bro’s definitely a bottom
@@a.j.carter2294 yeah probably and I don’t think anybody was going mouth to south back then without baby wipes , maybe in Mereen or Bravos but definitely not in Westeros .
@Monk_Chudwhy 🤮?
Whenever Jon Con is not in a scene, all the other characters should be asking, "Where's Jon Connington?"
Nice ref
Jon Poochiengton
i think he likes jon connington
No way
Rhaegar is to Jon Con as Jon Con is to Quinn
My expectation is that the Greyscale wont really directly affect him other then adding psychological pressure to him due to him thinking his time is short which will end up pushing him to rush into his demise.
“My enemies will tell you I am dead. Those rumors are false as you can plainly see.”
Yeah keep telling yourself that Conny
I thought the plot of Sam "curing" Jorah was one of the dumbest things in a long line of dumb decisions made for the show vs the books
They were too scared to kill off Jorah so all the dany stans wouldn't get upset
@@user-op6kt8pg9y only for them to have him unceremoniously killed by wights, and weirdly burned at a funeral pyre. smh.
The plotline, as in who healed whom was dumb
The plotline of: the Maesters hold back knowledge that would benefit the people of westeros, or even planetos, could be interesting if done by martin, and if given enough time to breathe..
Sam couldn't bear to look at a corpse, yet he was able to peel all that grayscale off Mormont? Yeah right
@@holgerridder9814 that on the other hand i get...
Sam (book and show) is always as brave as he needs to be...low stakes, or just himself on the line: coward! High stakes for someone he cares: superhero!
RIP JonCon you would love to cry over Brokeback Mountain!
@Magnonxyes
“5 years, enough to see the son on the throne” goes so incredibly hard,
Which will be the final straw in his undoing once it’s revealed he’s not actually rhaegars son
@@LexxirIt will never be revealed to him.
@@badyoutuber1986 definitely possible, it just seems like a very GRRM thing to do. Have him realize half his life was a lie before he goes fully insane
@@Lexxirthat’s true, but it would also be very GRRM to leave Aegon’s true lineage ambiguous. Was he truly the rightful king? Was he a pretender? Does it even matter, in the end?
Stone men being shipped off to Valyria is also a show-only thing. In the books they are sent to the Sorrows, upriver on the Rhoyne.
This.
We should remember that greyscale can spread internally as well, and that's what causes the madness, it hitting the brain. I think the _threat_ of is what will drive JonCon to take "shortcuts", Tywin-esque brutal shortcuts; we are already seeing that, and that moral descent will proceed and feed into the greyscale-induced madness itself. When Jon's already killed children and kin even before it has hit his brain, whatever other depravity must be easy when it gets to the brain.
Maybe Jon will quietly try to get his hand injured in battle so he can amputate it with a good reason; he wouldn't be the only Hand with maimed hands, he'd be like Davos. Since he has no feeling in the afflicted parts, it might not even hurt, and Jon will think he is cured. All the while, the greyscale is spreading inside...
Note though: stone men aren't sent to Valyria. That's in the dragon show. They're sent to the Sorrows up the Rhoyne, north of Volantis and nowhere near Valyria (this is why I do not care for the Gerion = Shrouded Lord theory in the slightest). I blame D&D.
i like the idea of jon connington as the reverse davos. Where Davos is basically Stannis’ jiminy cricket being his conscience for restraint Joncon will be the devil on Aegons shoulder pushing him to the extreme.
@7:01 "[Tyrion] had heard it said that there were three good cures for greyscale: axe and sword and cleaver. Hacking off afflicted parts did sometimes stop the spread of the disease, Tyrion knew, but not always. Many a man had sacrificed one arm or foot, only to find the other going grey. Once that happened, hope was gone."
Something I think important is that Jon's going to have a feeling of running out of time. He'll move more aggressively trying to put fAegon on the throne with this grey ticking time bomb. I think that will be his undoing.
Yeah, this will likely be the most important/impactful effect of the Greyscale rather than expanding to other Aegon supporters or the madness.
there were three good cures for greyscale: axe and sword and cleaver.
Between Sam curing Jorah and the HotD-era maesters peeling Aegon's armor off, TV showrunners sure seem to think Westerosi medicine can enable people to survive without skin.
Aren't the stone men, those aflicted with greyscale, sent to chroyane on the royne? I thought the valyria thing was show only.
Very true.
I was about to comment this, I think he just got Mandela affected by the show lol it happens Quin’s a busy guy
Mandela effect is a noun, now a verb. Let's work together to keep integrity in our spoken language!@@jameslindsley3332
@@nikolaiwhite4255 haha nice catch man. But did you mean “not a verb?”
@@nikolaiwhite4255 Also I only just realized that I used the word “affected” which is a verb.
Quinn The GM on his way say that Jon Connington is his favorite character for 9825471th time :
My thought on the intro😂 somehow this song keeps playing on repeat, someone check the jukebox pls. 😅
Conclusion: Since Jon Con ain't dying in Winds of Winter, and Dream of Spring is never coming out, Jon Con is immortal.
So you have nothing to worry Quinn :)
If you think I’m gonna keep clicking your joncon vids you’re god damn right I am
It could be interesting if he starts to lose it a bit mentally during things like crucial battles and is unintentionally messing up Aegon’s plans. A reflection of him not being there to save rhaegar.
His grayscale is just starting. fingers. Why would it affect his mental health so fast when the disease is said to attack only after they've been mostly calcified?
@@NewoOwen7 who knows. It’s been 13 years maybe Martin gonna fast track his illess.
@@t_hetty1758 George is not D&D lol
@@NewoOwen7cause JonCon knows he's going to die, so he will start taking more extreme measures to get Aegon on the throne.
The disease isn't on his brain (yet), but it will affect his mental state badly
@@joaodias8382 yeah everyone who has read the book and paid attention knows that. we're talking about the disease specifically causing it which is just not true since its progress is slow. He was already making rash decisions even in Essos when he instantly agreed with Aegon's plan.
Connington’s greyscale will progress as quickly as the drama requires. 😊
Thanks for the analysis. I too appreciate the Griffin’s presence in the Song. Awesome to have an opposing figure with political and military savvy.
Also Tyrion not affected because of his half-Dragon ancestry, selected at character creation. 😮
Great Jorah video!
Jon Con is your Silver Prince hahah
Ginger Prince
Hi yes 20 more videos on Jon Connington please.
I'm of the mind that he's going to use his grayscale as a weapon in the war as his "redemption" for the Bells. He'll probably not intend to cause an outbreak, but it could happen as a result of his actions, maybe infecting Aegon... or a dragon... so someone could wake it from stone? Or maybe Aegon could be the dragon awoken from stone? idk. Anyway, I feel like it's a very Martinian ending to have JonCon's downfall to be his guilt for not doing a war crime driving him to do something worse but he destroys everything.
Bruh no, the vision is a great stone beast, taking wing and breathing shadows, JonCons sigil is a Griffon
So I think we should probably note that the growth of a contagion is likely to be exponential rather than linear. As more greyscale germs populate Jon's body, the spread will likely accelerate because there will be more points of contact. I wonder whether Jon's greyscale will be discovered by his troops after he starts infecting other people, and I wonder if people will know that he is patient zero. Or maybe Shireen's burning will create another greyscale outbreak and he will be able to avoid accountability for bringing it to Westeros. One thing is for sure, a lot of people are gonna get infected.
I can't believe you recorded that in one take- I am impressed. Well done Lord Recorder!
So many videos lately! We are so spoiled!!!
Your love for this character makes me wanna read the chapters again so bad 😅😅😅
YES! Finally it’s here, can NEVER get enough Jon Con
Could he not chop off his hand or arm and say it got damaged in a battle or contracted a different disease?
It is a theory that he will chop off his hand in the upcoming "Battle of Steel" and blame it on being wounded in the battle.
Apparently there’s a line of dialogue where they say chopping off the limb doesn’t guarantee the spreading will cease.
Also the spreading would still happen anyway regardless for the disease 🦠 sake
It would be considered bad writing if the greyscale ended up being a red herring
@@TheKpa11 Thanks, I just watched the Boys Season 4 and a similar event occurs, so I thought Jon Con could do it too.
Well the infectious element is prolly in his bloodstream already. Maybe grayscale virus/bacteria/protista/fungi is only dangerous in a colony in this calcified structure yet i kinda doubt it.
Love the video! Any thoughts on the theory that Jon will destroy Kings Landing (like Tywin would) after Tommen somehow dies, as it's established that when the King dies they ring basically every bell in the city (like when Bobby and Joff died)?
It would tie-up with the show and JonCon's Battle of the Bells ptsd.
George exploring the human heart in conflict with it's inner doomed, ruined yaoi
you exploring normal teenage hormones without thinking you're a special snowflake gender challenge (impossible)
well done recording this all at once, i didn’t notice any difference in quality
You are legit the only ASOIAF youtuber that talks about connington lol
@1:23 I mean the show DID emphasize that when Sam cures Jorah, it's the first recorded time ever that an adult has successfully been cured of Greyscale. The times it has been tried in the past, the patient wasn't cured, and often the person who did the procedure contracted Greyscale and died as well (Archmaester Ebrose even reminds Sam that the maester who invented the procedure that Sam did on Jorah died from Greyscale himself.) So it's not surprising that it hasn't been tried all that much either- sufferers of Greyscale are instead just shipped to Chroyane to live among the stone men*. The small sample size of times the Greyscale-curing procedure has even been tried WOULD logically further-reduce the number of times it has been a success.
It's not impossible that such an experimental/hypothetical treatment exists in book canon in some of the medical texts at the Citadel and just hasn't been talked about yet, because in the show, it's so risky for the person doing the procedure Sam never even thinks of trying it on any of the patients until it's Jorah himself suffering from Greyscale, because Jorah is Jeor's son. And since in the books, it is JonCon and not Jorah who is infected, Sam is unlikely to pull a Leroy Jenkins trying to cure anyone with that procedure in TWoW or ADoS
*(This is a difference between the books and the show. In the show, Stone Men haunt the ruins of Valyria, whereas in the books, Greyscale is also known as Garin's Curse because while Prince Garin of the Rhoynar was being held prisoner at the city he once ruled- Chroyane- as the Valyrians were pillaging it after defeating Garin's army, he called upon Mother Rhoyne to strike them down, and (allegedly) the Valyrian conquerors soon started falling ill with Greyscale, and ever since, Chroyane is where Greyscale sufferers are sent, and when boats traveling the Rhoyne pass under the Bridge of Dreams in Chroyane, which stretches over the Rhoyne, they have to be wary of mad Stone Men jumping onto their boat from the Bridge, which is exactly what happens to the Shy Maid in ADwD. Valyria meanwhile in the books is haunted by horrors far worse than Stone Men. We know of one of those horrors that caused the death of Aerea Targaryen, and another SOMETHING that was able to wound Balerion, and who knows what else is there that we don't have any information about.)
Problems with this: 1, the procedure as I remember it should not work for a disease like greyscale. Peeling off the scales on the skin does nothing to stop the infection spreading inside, which is the most dangerous part of it, so it's not a believable cure.
2, it was a pointless plot point. Jorah was only infected with greyscale because the show was haplessly trying to adapt JonCon's story, but without adding any of the other elements of it that made the disease impactful or having a plan for how it would affect the wider story, which then made the disease useless as a plot point. So they shipped Jorah off to Oldtown of all places, where he was primed to start an epidemic in one of the largest cities in the world, but then rushed to have Sam cure it in a couple of episodes, before the greyscale had had any impact on anyone at all, to then give Jorah a different plot line. This "cure" was hastily invented to excuse the writer's poor planning in even giving Jorah the disease in the first place when they didn't really know what they were going to do with it. Everything about this "cure" plot line feels fake and dumb because that's what it was. So they slap a stamp of "ooh this is the first known cure ever! With no negative consequences at all, like it never happened! Wow :))" which is the worst excuse in the world.
My thought is that in grrm fashion… that Jon con will give greyscale to aegon or start a similar plague that will match the mare in danys
One of your better videos. Keep up the great work 👍🏾
As long as the plot needs him
Would love for you to break down the Battle of the Bells.
13 years apparently.
I think something along the lines of him fighting someone, in kings landing, around a well or water cistern of some sort, hand gets cut off during battle, hand flies into water supply, all while the bells ring... yes more JonCon please! Lol
JonCon is each of the seven faces and Azor Ahai as well as the drowned man
The question isn't: how long does he have till he dies or goes mad, the question is, how long till someone finds out, or how long till he infects someone else...
And that could be any day now...battles are not goid places if you want to socially distance...
I could see greyscale happening in the epilogue
Like we get the perspective of a commoner who tells us what the world is like around them and any subtle line of dialogue could hint to the outbreak to happen in post
I feel there has to be some post history to be written for what happens in the world after these events transpire; you know like what happens to certain houses and leaders. Example would be if it was written Doran passes in his sleep after losing his family and the years of swelling and pain eating him away
Or that one house on the fingers and if they’ll actually get some kind of recognition if Stannis were to die and they let Davos sail to The Manderly’s
The Griffon Soars (into the sun, from the cannon)
What if the stone skin folks turn out to be a weapon against white walkers. Connington and Jorah would both be armored knights. If the horn of winter lures them to the final battle. The statues of the Starks in the crypt also animate to fight the white walkers.
A Red Priest could cure him like he cured Victorian Greyjoy.
I'm very sure that JonCon is gonna spread grayscale through the stormlands and King's Landing by accident. When fAegon finds out, he'll be mad and maybe make some stupid decisions that lead to Dany showing up
It’s been ages since I’ve read any ASOIAF, what did you mean by Connington’s madness causing the Bells? Are you referring to the Bells as in the episode from S8? I may have missed something in the books or in fan theories
I did an old video about Greyscale specifically, I think I explain it there. Basically I think Connington is going to be the one to blow up King’s Landing - he has bell-related PTSD, and when they ring the bells to announce Aegon’s surrender or death he’ll go nuts and blow up the wildfire
Some people have been cured by cutting of the first afflicted limb and the maesters said that those who had been cured had undergone so many treatments th y didn't know which one helped
Maybe Tyrion thought the hand that grabbed his face was gray man but instead was Jon Con
Where’d you get the dates for when the Jon Con chapters occur? I know the later books do a slightly better job at tracking the time than earlier ones, but I don’t recall any specific amounts of time passing being referenced for Jon Con in particular. Of course April being when the chapter with Tyrion takes place makes some sense, as that’s about 4 months after the purple wedding, I’m just curious how we know the Griffin reborn takes place two months after that.
You know I’ve watched a few (not all admittedly) of your videos, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a reason why Jon Con is your favorite. I’ll be honest, of the POV characters he’s the one I tend to forget most often. So I’d be interested in hearing the perspective of someone who has clearly been touched by the character.
As to his eventual death. I don’t think it’ll happen until he realizes Young Griff isn’t truly Rhaegar’s son and he’s dedicated his life to a mummer’s dragon.
My fav theory is that Valyria is "Chernobyl" and grey scale is the radiation
Nah, Asshai is Chernobyl(no kids, water and food poisoned, nothing grows, weird fauna). Valyria is Alien but with fire worms that eat people and dragons from inside out(rip Aerea Targaryen and Balerion). Greyscale is a curse onto Valyrians by rhoynish water wizards aka magic zombie virus. Ah, Westeros and its horrors.
He failed his Fortitude save :^/ though likely he just had injured fingertips when he out his hand in the water
Great video as usual,
Also a major point you missed is if Jon managed to infect Aegon it could be a sign that he isn’t who Varys claims he is. As real Targaryens seem to be immune to greyscale.
One of Jaehaerys’ daughters died of Greyscale, Maegelle. She had a lot more Targaryen blood than the real son of Rhaegar would.
@QuinnTheGM just curious did she have her own dragon? I know that in some cases targaryens have been "healed" of illness after getting a dragon.
Edit: Not that it could cure something as great as greyscale.
Might not be a sign that Aegon isn't a Targaryen because no one believes that they can't get sick anymore. But it would sure throw a spanner in the works if your perfect prince is rotting from greyscale...
@@QuinnTheGM Maybe not completely immune but Daenerys in ADWD proved that Targaryens have a higher immunity to diseases than most.
Like in the fanfic, he can lose the hand to slow the diesease down
Masterful cope sir Quinn, quite elegantly executed indeed🤵🏻♂️now time for your medication my lord
What do you guys think that “Half maester” guy is up to? He definitely doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who’d be selfless to support Griff and his guys
Why doesn't Jon Con do the Jamie thing with his affected hand?
Just going by the plans he hopes to carry out it seems like Connington himself believes he has half a year at a minimum
Isn't Greyscale supposed to be a slow torturous process like months if not years or is it just fast and then takes years to become a Stoneman and die?
So if all the characters you like dies. Who are your other favorites?
My favorite viewpoint for the first three books was Catelyn, other favorites include Oberyn and Stannis (who I’m confident is doomed to die in Winds)
@@QuinnTheGM good, my boy jaime and theon aren't on that list. I feel a small bit of relief
@4:45 Quinn: all my friends are dead!
4:21 Perhaps the reason why Tyrion hasn't contracted greyscale is due to his half Targaryen blood 🤫 and has more tolerance
The main effect it's had on his character, and therefore the plot, is that it's made him reckless and impatient. Compare him to a character like Roose Bolton. Roose also feels the end of his life closing in, but he doesn't have any specific goals he wants to accomplish, so he's dedicated himself to a general course of action: climb as high as he can, as fast as he can, but as cautiously as he can, maximizing potential gains while minimizing loss, so as to leave behind the greatest possible legacy. Roose will do anything and everything within that course and won't do anything outside of it. Jon Con on the other hand has some very specific goals he wants to accomplish, and he'll do anything he can to see them realized before he dies. On page, we see he's willing to sacrifice the idea of marriage, personal gain in terms of land and wealth, and principles he once valued like the sparing of civilians and adhering to honorable behavior in war. It's his sense of desperation, imparted by the disease, that's driving his behavior now.
Sp you don't think dany is the one going mad from the bells and burning kings landing?
When Danny comes to Westeros she's gonna find a mad with power and mad in general Jon Connington. He'll do anything to keep (f)Aegon as king. He will burn and raze his enemies, and Danny would look like it was her dragons doing it instead. King's landing will not survive when Jon hears the bells.
I believe this as well, all the ground work & foreshadowing has been laid. Daenerys will come for King’s Landing with Fire & Blood unaware of an unhinged Connington, and their standoff will result in King’s Landing being destroyed. From Connington’s trauma over ringing bells, the caches of wildfire under the city, and the coming Second Dance of Dragons that should be above the city, it’s no surprise the outcome of KL. Daenerys burning the city would fit Martin’s love of tragic irony in his writing: Dany wins the throne at the cost of killing thousands. It wouldn’t matter if she came with best of intentions, POV characters & history would remember her as the Mad Queen but that legacy would be unfinished if Daenerys still has head North & unite with Jon Snow in the Battle for the Dawn.
You are assuming a linear rate of growth though. It could also be exponential growth, where it slowly creeps up until it suddendly covers it all
Unlikely because GRRM doesn't seem to be good at Math but we don't know
What if he cuts off his hand like Ormund Baratheon Aegon the Conquerors first hand of the king
Conveniently enough, Grimdark just dropped a video on the Black Ones and Grey Ones of Conan and the Hyperborean Age...
Also I don’t think the greyscale has gone past his hand in fact I believe it has only Darkened his fingers to the knuckle. So he should cut it off, I certainly would, and yes he might not want to and there would be obvious comparisons between Jon and Orys Baratheon. Especially if he’s the hand but it’s simply the logical choice and yes he says there’s no way of knowing it won’t just pop up on his stub if he does it anyway but the odds that it doesn’t are just as good
Btw they are sent to the Sorrows not to Valyria in the books as no one goes to valyria
Don’t worry, he’s going to live long enough to infect (f)Aegon.
I'd rather ask when someone notices his greyscale and he gets cast out/ killed. Or when does the illness affect his mind and he gets confronted about that.
I mean he lived with it over a decade now😅
I think it’ll never be truly discovered who the source was BY THE MASSES. It’ll be rumored and hearsay. Used to blame certain parties and the like.
We the readers and a few of Young Griff’s crew will know, but for the rest they will not (Complexity and all that)
Its alright he'll just go to the citadel and sam will do a quick patch job he finds in a book never mentioned before and perform it perfectly in one night
One valid theory is that Tyrion is a Targaryen and according to me at least if true may be why he didnt get greyscale while Connington did, because Targaryens seem to be at least more resistant to disieses than the common man.
I think he has a long time. It could be a year. JonCon has to destroy KL by filling the city with Wildfire for Dany to set off.
But GRRM isn’t gonna write ADOS- which is supposed to be the same size as Winds- without King’s Landing.
Why didnt Jon Con just cut off the infected finger tho?
makes zero sense to me if he would then cut his arm off lol
💯 his chapters with Tirion are amazing! I just love how no nonsense he is! But his POV chapter is brilliant! That's ah man with ah mission! And the perfect tool for Vareys and the big Pentoshi guy whos name escapes me just now! Looking forward to this 👍🏻
How is it spreading to other fingers via the tips? Doesn’t make sense to me unless all the tips got infected at the same time
the different fingertips touch each other externally. If it's a disease that can be spread by touch, which it can, then the fingers touching each other or any other body part is enough to spread it. Although it's likely that it spreads faster on the inside.
Damn shame he didn’t arrange to loose his hand next time they got in a fight
Hell yes!
I always wondered why he didn’t just chop his hand off as soon as he knew he had contracted the greyscale. Surely he’d rather lose a hand or even a few fingers and still be around for Aegon long term.
Apparently they have a line of dialogue where that doesn’t guarantee it. Plus he’d be crippled, and it is possible that rumor might spread
Course it isn’t being talked about how they sailed where the stone men are and considering how much the books hype how deadly grey scale is, it does come off as a tad silly that none of the Young Griff or the others one the ship just think they’re fine even after both Jon con and Tyrion fell like they did. They just seemed to think it couldn’t spread
So what’s the opinions on him announcing WOW at world con at this point?
I think Jon Connington's storyline will culminate with him learning his best friend Rhaegar had another son and that son bears his name... Jon.
Reports of my greyscale were greatly exaggerated - Jon Con
Rip Jon
4:41 You can’t win against the author’s self-insert
five more years apparently, or forever who knows
Tyrion falling into the water is a, if not the penultimate, example of how Martin has made himself a hypocrite in his self proclaimed standards for fantasy writing; it’s as if that scene and the later greyscale reveal were written specifically to point out Tyrion’s Valyrian steel plot armor. The man was IN THE WATER, so he definitely drank it, and got literally molested by greyscale. If anyone should’ve gotten infected it was Tyrion.
Imagine Jon just cuts his own hand off and tells people it happened in the battle 😂
Algomancy!
I think Jon Connington will spread grayscale just like Henry VII, the real life counterpart to Daenerys/Young Griff, is suspected to bring the sweating sickness to England when he landed to end the War of the Roses.
13+ years it seems.
This is odd-had Connington cut his fingers off, he would be half-hand. If he cuts the whole hand off..well, also fitting to a few other characters. Does everyone need a handless hand to be a King/Queen? Weird.
Maybe JonCon will challenge a knight from Tarly's host during the battle and deliberately allow that knight to chop his hand off. Oh no, what a shame, I lost my hand! Oh well! ;)
I respect that this video is mostly wishful thinking on your part
So what happens if you cut your hand?
Do you still have the disease?
Apparently it’s not guaranteed. Also there’s a line to suggest that the “Shrouded lord” can seemingly decide if greyscale spreads
And on top of that, grey plaques have broken out in the past and rumored to in places like Yi Tee and in the past like in Old Town.
@@TheKpa11 I'd take not guaranteed over turning insane and dying, lol
Well, they’re sent to Valyria in the show at least..which I think is beyond stupid but 🤷🏻♂️