Facts. They would have brought shame to his character but if they were to cast him, who do you think they would've casted? I can't even begin to think of who could've played him.
"I am of the night" makes so much more sense when paired with the previous line referring to the sword "of the morning". Sounds far less silly than much of the fandom make it out to be.
I think he will Take a dragon and that is where Dany believes he is a Targaryen. I think Jon never meets Dany or Aegon but dies north of the wall killing and being killed fighting the knight king. Aegon and Dany together take the throne and unite the 7 kingdoms…. Also Blackfyres are Targaryens. The reason why i think Aegon is real is that the spider didnt need to lie to Keven Lanister when he told him about Aegon. Also if you look at how many times in the story that young childen escape and other people are killed in their place ie Bran and Ricon…
This is inconsequential to the theory of stealing Dawn but it is weird that George doesn't clarify that Darkstar did wound Myrcella himself. Arianne doesn't witness it, and later there are different opinions on the matter. If Darkstar is really skilled and wanted to kill her, there was nothing holding him back, so if he did it, he only mutilated her on purpose. To guarantee it comes to war maybe? I don't think we have enough information yet to decide. However, there is one other possibility I don't see much discussed. Arianne's troupe is ambushed by Areo Hotah and a dozen men with crossbows and throwing spears, which they all throw and fire agaisnt Arys Oakhart when he charges. How many of those arrows/spears hit, bounce and miss? I can see a stray/bounced crossbolt hitting Myrcella. What reason does Prince Doran have to cast fault on Darkstar though? I'm not sure, but he is big schemer and can have one.
I was about to raise my doubts that Darkstar did hurt Myrcella. I believe he's been framed. The party's horses were quite exhausted, and the man allegedly attempted to kill a princess of the Iron throne, and yet the men who were there did not pursue him. And it plays quite well into Doran's hand, since he'll probably be able to send Ser Balon Swann in a wild goose chase. If Doran has as much influence with the shitstorm happening in king's landing as my boy Preston Jacobs thinks he does, he might have orchestrated the whole thing himself.
Agree that Darkstar was framed for Myrcella - too many questionable points in the story provided. I suspect that Doran is sending Swann into a trap and Darkstar and Obara will team up instead.
Which would be foreshadowing that he will be defeated by a Nymeria-archetype character. Or maybe just eaten by Arya's Nymeria. As an aside, the best thing about LML theorizing about the Daynes is his refusal to accept that N+A=J (the eyes are the proof), and that Mance Rayder is actually Arthur Dayne, even though the theories are much better once you realize that Jon is half Dayne and Mance is his uncle. Why should a non-Dayne be Sword of the Morning? Because Dawn was the original Ice? All the more reason for it to be wielded by a Stark-Dayne in the Ultimate Showdown For Great Justice.
@@alexandergangaware429 I think if J=A+N, then D=R+L, and that is a harder timeline to solve unless Lyanna got pregnant by Rhaegar at the Tourney of Harrenhal to maintain the supposed fact that Dany is a year younger, and we are expected that Bobby B's Rebellion all happened inside the span of the next year. Jon was about a year old when Ned brought him back to Winterfell, which would make Dany between a few months old to around nine months old. There is just too much evidence between the lines that Ned and Blood Raven believe that Jon is the rightful king of the Seven Kingdoms, however it was all worked out, which would make him Lyanna and Rhaegar's. I think Jon and Dany are twins and the whole timeline is off to cover it up.
@@Nga_Babaye Interesting. For my part, I've long believed that it was Val who was born at the Tower of Joy. Her hair shines silver in moonlight, and her eyes are the deep, vivid blue that sometimes takes the place of purple among Targaryens. And people keep calling her a princess, no matter how many times Jon tells them she can't be, since wildlings follow charismatic leaders, not bloodlines. Jon knows nothing, so he fails to realize that this is proof that she isn't a wildling, rather than not being a princess. And Arthur becoming Mance is the avenue by which she comes north. Her real name is probably Visenya, in that case. "Val" is kind of a joke, since she's part Valyrian. Probably her milk name.
@@alexandergangaware429 As a writer, I know GRRM hasn't locked himself into anything. I mean I guess that it possible, but the reason I never believed it about Val was it would have meant that Marthur rode or sailed past the wall without question, found wildlings to entrust an infant girl with, wildlings who wouldn't give a shit about a her being princess, went back and he served how many years with the Watch before defecting, and no one mentions Mance with a baby that I recall. Unless she was being watched over by Ned and Benjen in Winter Town and Benjen somehow smuggled her north recently. There would have been no reason to move her north except for the fact that Bobby was coming north. There's no indications as of yet that anything like that happened except maybe Benjen disappearing. There were many men serving on the wall who would have known the face of Ser Arthur Dayne well, especially Alliser Thorne, and I would think they would have known him, and there is no way that many people are in on the plot.
I don't think Darkstar cut Myrcella. Doran knew about this scheme of Arianna's, because he had a mole with the group. I think the mole was the one that cut Myrcella and killing her wasn't the plan. Doran is the one claiming Darkstar did it, Arianna didn't see it happen. Mycella seemed instinctively to fear Drea. The Sand Snakes don't believe that Darkstar did it at first, like it is out of character for him to cut little girls. I think Darkstar has spent his life growing up in the shadow of Arthur Dayne. He has worked hard to become Arthur's equal as a swordsman, but is always unfavorably compared to Arthur, regardless of if he is an equal or better fighter than Arthur. Darkstar was likely told simply that he would "Never Carry Dawn," but, wasn't given a reason that would make sense about why, like Robert is King and Dawn will remind him of Rhaegar. It's not hard to see how Darkstar could have grown up into an Edgelord, to hide his frustration from forever being compared to his legendary uncle, but never seen to measure up. After a decade and a half of that, no wonder he comes across as rather salty.
Something that I really want to see happen in the books is for Edric Dayne to go North with the rest of the "good" members of the Brotherhood Without Banners and end up meeting his milk brother Jon Snow. I can see Edric Dayne becoming the squire for the potential King in the North. Given how he took care of Beric Dondarion, he should have a lot of experience with being the squire to undead guys lmao. Plus it would be pretty appropriate for the nephew of Arthur Dayne to squire for the son of his best friend!
I wonder if the 2020 vibe of apocalyptic apathy will impact how George sees Westeros. Like Darkstar becomes Sword of the Morning and instead of it being a huge controversy, the people of Westeros will be like "yeah that may as well happen too."
I know I commented already but I loved this video so much. I can’t see how it isn’t what grrm is going for. A recreation of the Roberts rebellion but with a fake version of each character... that’s gold!
I have heard you propose this plot purpose for Darkstar a number of times previously. But this was truly an excellent job of thoroughly explaining your theory. It makes total sense to me. And I’m quite excited to hear your follow up with the related symbolism. You already did such an awesome job of explaining why this makes sense that I didn’t miss the typical mythical angle. But that makes me anticipate the follow up even more. And BTW, I love your ship name of the Sword & the Hammer. 😂
If this theory turns out to be true, Dawn will probably make it’s way north by Darkstar getting sent to the wall for what he did to Mercella. Not sure if anyone’s mentioned this but it just occurred to me.
Seriously I can not get over the funny bits you've been putting in your videos. I don't know what it says about either of us but you are hilarious. It really does make the serious parts really stand out so that you do pay attention to it. And I also feel kindred connection to you because your theory crafting runs along my brain train tracks. Encouragement, gratitude and thanks. Your logic paths, I could get lost in them all day. Amazing job getting a lot of information into this without getting me lost.
Darkstar was framed #darkstarwasframed. Yeah the 5 year time jump I was gunna say that... but you did so maybe I should wait to comment till I finish watching excuse me sir. You were saying?
My man! You have the best TH-cam channel on ASOIAF. Hands down. I love it! Thanks so much! Great to see you almost at 30k subs!! You deserve so much more!
It id so awesome that House Dayne has hella high standards when it comes to who can weild Dawn which is literally one of a kind. And knowing that the sword can go through generations of the family without being used gives us another way to know how impressive Arthur Dayne was. My favorite fight scene from the show was the tower of joy fight hands down i wish we could have got a sword fight that a2esome between john amd the night king i was always hoping that somehow john would end up having fight the night king in single combat as like a last resort where the stakes are if john dies then tje rests of the living would for sure be killed by the army of the dead afterwards
"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," I think Maggy the Frog meant Cersei's children will die as monarchs. I believe Darkstar killed Myrcella while she was a Queen, to Arianne's little group atleast, and Doran scarred Myrcella's cousin Rosalyn Lannister to pass her off to Balon. Myrcella died before Tommen in the show and I think that is something show got right.
No, I mean Myrcella is alive according to the last ADWD Martell chapter we got, so unless her wound is infected or something, she’s just disfigured. But that plot to crown her might be resurrected; Obara and Darkstar both want to start a war
Agree with some of the others on here that Doran is scheming and Darkstar didn't do anything to Myrcella. Has any reliable character even seen her? Do we know if she was really cut at all? I do agree w the overall idea of him stealing Dawn, but don't think he's quite as bad as Doran makes him out to be.
Your analysis is solid in logic. I have to agree with your assessment in how Dawn gets to where it needs to be. As for fAegon - wouldn't it be necessary for those that know his true lineage to hunt down and kill the Mountain, so that no eyewitness will be alive that can bring doubt to fAegon's claims?
No I mean the cover story for fAegon being real is that they swapped some poor person's baby into Aegon's crib, so the Mountain will say he smashed a little baby either way. He's a silent zombie now anyway so it's a moot point
@@DavidLightbringer Yeah, since he can't argue the point linguistically, you're right. Perhaps I over thought it. And no one will believe Cersi or those with her no matter what they say, so "fAegon's in" for those that chose to believe the claims about him.
Adding to your dark star will be a kings guard theory, I think B Selmy will end up on the gaurd with him. If he believes Dany is dead and one of his biggest life failures (death of Aegon) was a lie, how could he do anything else? I Feel like this makes the end of his story ark a dark parallel to its start.
I really want Jon "fake stark" to fight Darkstar "fake Arthur Dayne" in a tower of joy like moment and take Dawn to "New Starfall" aka where the meteor hit The Wall and fight the White Walkers.
Whether the dragon be black or red, it's still a dragon. There's no reason to call a Blackfyre a false dragon. Definitely pretenders to the throne, but no one could ever make the argument that they didn't have a legitimate blood claim.
i think ive said this before but it bears repeating - i really appreciate that you take the effort to put the title and artist of all the artwork in the actual video !
I know this has no relation with the topic of this video but I cam up with the idea that the gods of Valyria are in fact the nameless people from Asshai, which were people from the Empire of the Dawn(although at this point the great empire is broken). We even know their names(Balerion, Meraxes, Vhagar, Rhaenyra which are names of the Valyrian gods). Also I would like to know your opinion about the coming of the First Men. Do you think there is a relation between the coming of the First Men and The Empire of The Dawn? Andals migrated because they wanted to escape being enslaved by Valyria? I'm not saying it's the same thing for the First men , but they either escaped or fled from a dangedous situation. Then they came to Westeros, where there were already some people from The Great Empire (Daynes, Hightowers)
The Hammer and the Blade, chapter 1: Ned pulled his sword from its sheath, flipped it, and handed it to Gendry pommel first. “I hear you’re the finest smith in the seven kingdoms,” he said....
@@DavidLightbringer Finding it may be difficult; Shipping fanfic ain't my thing, but I've heard tell that you'll need to scroll through endless "Kirk helps Spock get in touch with his sensitive side" and "Draco teaches Ron his place in the class-order" stories to find The Hammer and the Blade.
Haven't had a chance to blaze all day!! finally get home from work and what do I see??? A new LML video!! perfect time to roll one up and relax!! keep up the awesome work!!
@@DavidLightbringer With whats going on in the world right now I could see GRRM throwing a plague in the mix just for fun, he enjoys that kind of turmoil haha!
I also like the idea a post skip edric dayne being sword of the morning and later giving it to Jon somehow cause literally Neds his introduction in storm of swords is him telling Arya that he and Jon are milk brothers cause the same nanny breastfed them both
I think we are going to have both Darkstar and Edric in Winds. They are going to be simmillar to Jaime and Briene where some of Edric's kind heartedness will rub off on Darkstar.
Thank you, convinced me even more that Jon is Asharas son and Faegon is the real Aegon (just dont know if hes Ellias or Lyannas son yet). Main reason I think Faegon is real is that chapter where JonCon seens Young Griff and him saying 'you have a fine castle' or whatever it was and lookung like his dad reminds JonCon of Rhaegar (who he loved).
5:38 this picture right here has me laughing my ass off. The look on Edrics face is fucking hilarious. I picture him having mortys voice and saying ahh mr Dondarion sir are you are you still alive?? 🤣
I love how much of an impression left in the fandom with such a little time on the book for people that say they hate him that much you guys talk to much about him
GRRM likes his redemption arcs, and story echoes . Dark Star May steal Dawn do some terrible things in the process and then slowly redeem himself, perhaps in the end giving the sword to Jon
I genuinely don’t understand why people don’t like Dark Star, there is literally no reason to call him unworthy or evil. Even the people that don’t like him think he was framed.
I actually predict that Ned Dayne WILL be the Sword of the Morning. I think Darkstar will steal Dawn and travel North to fight in the war for the dawn and he will die, possibly a heroic redeeming death but he will die nonetheless. Edric IS the Sword of the Morning, he has all the traits of a good knight, I know he's young but at this point in the story he has to be at least 15/16, that is old enough to weild the sword. If Rob can be King in the North at 16 then Ned Dayne can wield Dawn.
Yes, and it’s unclear. The old ladies of castle Starfall? A supreme high council? Whoever is oldest? Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords? We have no idea
@@DavidLightbringer is there any symbolic "lady of the lake" figure that could give the sword to Jon? someone who is elfish in form I guess, maybe a child of the forrest in the gods eye, literally the center of a lake? I mean she was supposedly Lancelot's "fairy god mother" so to speak, so maybe someone like quaithe or another character who has that kind of role?
Dany. She'll het Dawn from defeating team fAegon, potentially. She was reborn from the sea. Mel does this for Stannis at Dragonstone, with Lightbringer planted in the surf
I still think we could see edric weild dawn (temporarily) and think it would be more poetic if he does. By the time the main battle with the others edric will be at least 16, too young to be named sword of the morning but old enough to swing dawn. I think darksar will steal dawn, edric will hear of it and be compelled to seek him out and reclam dawn for house dayne. Darkstar isnt going to be answering any call to battle against the others, so edric reclaiming dawn gives a narrative for dawn getting north. After reclaiming the sword edric years of the battle, and decides to head north, before he has time to take dawn to starfall (or possibly chose not to) and heads north with it, dies in battle where the sword passed on (to Mance who is really Arthur dayne .......[I know but that fight with Jon when glamoured as rattleshirt at castle black......]) Just my punt, but I can't see darkstar wanting to go north, and it ties up both characters stories in a poetic way, family betrayal settles, edric becomes sword of the mornings in all but name/retrospectively as he'll act with valour and honour his family, is acting as a sword of the morning. Edric has a better narrative to head north, perhaps linked to hearing of aryas return.
Great video! I wonder how Dawn will be stolen and what its fate will be after it is used by Jon Snow. If Ned Dayne's original story was going to see him die so that Jon could have the sword, it makes me wonder if part of stealing Dawn will result in Ned dying or something happening to him. As for how the sword gets to Jon - that will be interesting. I think the most likely option is Dany having some vision to bring it with her north after she defeats the mummer's dragon. But I would think House Dayne would be very upset that their ancient heirloom was stolen and then stolen again off to the north. I wonder what implications that could have for the future of Dayne especially after Jon no longer needs the sword.
Darkstar; who is he really? The fact that Ser Gerold Dayne is blamed by Doran Martell (a HUGE liar face) as slashing Myrcella's ear and face yet we never see it tells me it probably is not true. He's one of these characters who classically gets blamed for stuff they didn't actually do (the Mountain burning the Riverlands...it was Houses Piper and Vance first) yet we don't get their POV so we make the false assumption that it is true. George LOVES to mislead so I have think a statement that he has presented as true in this manner is not, despite it seeming so. Because why actually would Darkstar do that? He has no reason to harm the princess. The Martells are not very close to the Daynes since no Daynes are ever involved in known Martell plans. Let me clarify, I do think Darkstar is a dick who sucks and is creepy...but I don't think he harmed Myrcella...who also may be her handmaid, Rosamund. We don't know either way. Arys Oakheart seems pretty eager to die, and I believe it is because he is the only one who knows her true whereabouts, and wants it to stay that way. So in conclusion...Darkstar is a misunderstood pretty boy who will probably still try to steal Dawn and die. Let me know when "Gendric: The Hammer and the Blade" is finished
I totally agree that he will wield dawn. But I don't believe dark star cut Myrcella. He was framed. Not sure why so many people take Doran Martell at his word? He is a proven lier and schemer. Arianne is our pov and she did not see what happened.
"One more lie for Daenerys to slay" oooooh I love that, and all the false "repeat" imagery with Rhaegar/Sword of the Morning and "I cant believe it's not Rhaegar!" (lool) and I aM oF ThE NiGhT
Hey LmL, Scorpiax is here. I fully support your vision of Darkstar stealing Dawn and joining fAegon’s side. I also think that as fAegon’s Kingsguard Darkstar will be sent to Riverlands to hunt down BwB outlaws (who I think Jaime will join and eventually become its leader after Lady Stoneheart arc is complete). Jaime will become the new Smiling Knight (or Smiling Lion which has proof of him described as smiling in the text) who will engage Darkstar in a combat for several narrative reasons: 1) Darkstar serves fAegon regime which will do something nasty to Tommen and Myrcella and Lannister regime, I can feel it 2) Darkstar will be extremely ruthless to the smallfolk and his general behavior as Sword of the Evening, besmirching the honor of House Dayne and the memory of Arthur Dayne, Jaime’s mentor who gave him knighthood with the very same Dawn. I am afraid Darkstar might become a kinslayer if Edric Dayne will stand on his path to acquire Dawn. I think unlike the first encounter between the Smiling Knight and the Sword of the Morning, Jaime will win his battle as leader of BwB and take Dawn as his sword. Also, Brienne’s sigil of House Tarth showcases the possible transformation during dawn time. Another hint that Jaime will wield Dawn and then knight Brienne with the sword, paralleling his own knighthood by Dawn’s wielder. And of course, I fully support that Jon Snow is destined to wield Dawn in the pivotal battle against White Walkers. And I believe that transfer of sword Dawn will manifest between Jaime and Jon (who I believe are related as uncle and nephew through Targaryen line, but it is not proven yet), and as former Lord Commander of Kingsguard, a white cloak, passing Dawn and his symbolic mantle of protector of people and realm to by then former Lord Commander of Night’s Watch, a black cloak, is a nice symbolic arc. I think Beric Dondarrion’s season 7 and 8 arc is what I pretty much envision Jaime’s arc to be in the books for many reasons, except he will probably survive battle at Winterfell. Jaime will even have his own Clegane, Sandor, at his side as the head of BwB (and in the show, Sandor is by Beric’s side starting from end of season 6). Cersei/Gregor vs Jaime/Sandor parallel. Also, Jaime envisions wielding a burning blue flamed sword alongside Brienne. I know it is more symbolic than literal, but Dawn is the only sword that comes to my mind which will product such a light, not red and orange kind one. Truly honest, I think Jon’s Longclaw will get snapped like in Last Hero’s story when the night is darkest and undead enemies surround the living, so probably at this moment Jon somehow ends up with Dawn and saves the day. Whether he returns the sword to House Dayne is questionable (if House Dayne even exists by the end of the story) like his uncle Ned did, but my money is that he keeps the sword as his own even after his endgame exile to Night’s Watch. Just some food for thought.
I like it, though having watched Preston's Riverlands videos, I tend to agree with him that the BWB is actually *assisting* the "Targaryen Restoration", by helping F/Aegon's conquest succeed. Other than that though, I really like your ideas
I think it might be possible that Jon is actually the son of Ashara and Ned, while Daenerys is the daughter of Lyanna and Rhaegar. I know it sounds farfetched but there is evidence for it. So if the former is the case perhaps Jon will become the new sword of the morning and die to defend Daenerys much like his uncle did. Idk just thought that could be an interesting parallel
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night."
**hair flip**
lol
I wonder if GRRM sat down, and looked at this specific line, delighted in the inevitable amount of cringe it would cause.
LOLOLOLOL
Omg so dramatic
🤣😂🤣
Ah Darkstar, Westeros' finest edgelord.
Is there a Hot Topic in Dorne?
I am so glad the show did NOT add him. I mean Hot Topic Euron was bad enough. They would of done an Emo Darkstar and then I would of raged.
would have*.
"They would have done an Emo Darkstar..."
@@raveneyex well done bro
Facts. They would have brought shame to his character but if they were to cast him, who do you think they would've casted?
I can't even begin to think of who could've played him.
Sooo....., they would have portrayed him exactly as he appears in the books...? 🤨
@@roadiejames Jared Leto! That guy gives FANTASTIC edge! 😁
"I am of the night" makes so much more sense when paired with the previous line referring to the sword "of the morning". Sounds far less silly than much of the fandom make it out to be.
Absolutely love the concept of Darkstar and Faegon as a perverted version of Sir Arthur and Rhaegar! Brilliant!
It’s exactly the sort of degraded parallel that George likes to use, methinks
Aegon is a Targaryen even if he’s a Blackfyre
I think he will Take a dragon and that is where Dany believes he is a Targaryen. I think Jon never meets Dany or Aegon but dies north of the wall killing and being killed fighting the knight king. Aegon and Dany together take the throne and unite the 7 kingdoms…. Also Blackfyres are Targaryens. The reason why i think Aegon is real is that the spider didnt need to lie to Keven Lanister when he told him about Aegon. Also if you look at how many times in the story that young childen escape and other people are killed in their place ie Bran and Ricon…
This is inconsequential to the theory of stealing Dawn but it is weird that George doesn't clarify that Darkstar did wound Myrcella himself. Arianne doesn't witness it, and later there are different opinions on the matter. If Darkstar is really skilled and wanted to kill her, there was nothing holding him back, so if he did it, he only mutilated her on purpose. To guarantee it comes to war maybe? I don't think we have enough information yet to decide. However, there is one other possibility I don't see much discussed. Arianne's troupe is ambushed by Areo Hotah and a dozen men with crossbows and throwing spears, which they all throw and fire agaisnt Arys Oakhart when he charges. How many of those arrows/spears hit, bounce and miss? I can see a stray/bounced crossbolt hitting Myrcella. What reason does Prince Doran have to cast fault on Darkstar though? I'm not sure, but he is big schemer and can have one.
all true, there is a definite fog of battle thing happening in that Arianne chapter. Maybe he's not as sinister as we all think!
I was about to raise my doubts that Darkstar did hurt Myrcella. I believe he's been framed. The party's horses were quite exhausted, and the man allegedly attempted to kill a princess of the Iron throne, and yet the men who were there did not pursue him. And it plays quite well into Doran's hand, since he'll probably be able to send Ser Balon Swann in a wild goose chase. If Doran has as much influence with the shitstorm happening in king's landing as my boy Preston Jacobs thinks he does, he might have orchestrated the whole thing himself.
Agree that Darkstar was framed for Myrcella - too many questionable points in the story provided. I suspect that Doran is sending Swann into a trap and Darkstar and Obara will team up instead.
Also there's a Myrcella lookalike lurking around... The wound could be to differenciate them
@@paolabruno4437 Rosamunde, yes. Who know if Myrcella was even there? It may even her been her lookalike all along.
I think he'll steal Dawn and call himself Sword of the Evening.
Or the Dusky Swordsman.
Which would be foreshadowing that he will be defeated by a Nymeria-archetype character. Or maybe just eaten by Arya's Nymeria.
As an aside, the best thing about LML theorizing about the Daynes is his refusal to accept that N+A=J (the eyes are the proof), and that Mance Rayder is actually Arthur Dayne, even though the theories are much better once you realize that Jon is half Dayne and Mance is his uncle. Why should a non-Dayne be Sword of the Morning? Because Dawn was the original Ice? All the more reason for it to be wielded by a Stark-Dayne in the Ultimate Showdown For Great Justice.
@@alexandergangaware429 I think if J=A+N, then D=R+L, and that is a harder timeline to solve unless Lyanna got pregnant by Rhaegar at the Tourney of Harrenhal to maintain the supposed fact that Dany is a year younger, and we are expected that Bobby B's Rebellion all happened inside the span of the next year. Jon was about a year old when Ned brought him back to Winterfell, which would make Dany between a few months old to around nine months old. There is just too much evidence between the lines that Ned and Blood Raven believe that Jon is the rightful king of the Seven Kingdoms, however it was all worked out, which would make him Lyanna and Rhaegar's.
I think Jon and Dany are twins and the whole timeline is off to cover it up.
@@Nga_Babaye Interesting. For my part, I've long believed that it was Val who was born at the Tower of Joy. Her hair shines silver in moonlight, and her eyes are the deep, vivid blue that sometimes takes the place of purple among Targaryens. And people keep calling her a princess, no matter how many times Jon tells them she can't be, since wildlings follow charismatic leaders, not bloodlines. Jon knows nothing, so he fails to realize that this is proof that she isn't a wildling, rather than not being a princess. And Arthur becoming Mance is the avenue by which she comes north.
Her real name is probably Visenya, in that case. "Val" is kind of a joke, since she's part Valyrian. Probably her milk name.
@@alexandergangaware429 As a writer, I know GRRM hasn't locked himself into anything. I mean I guess that it possible, but the reason I never believed it about Val was it would have meant that Marthur rode or sailed past the wall without question, found wildlings to entrust an infant girl with, wildlings who wouldn't give a shit about a her being princess, went back and he served how many years with the Watch before defecting, and no one mentions Mance with a baby that I recall. Unless she was being watched over by Ned and Benjen in Winter Town and Benjen somehow smuggled her north recently. There would have been no reason to move her north except for the fact that Bobby was coming north. There's no indications as of yet that anything like that happened except maybe Benjen disappearing.
There were many men serving on the wall who would have known the face of Ser Arthur Dayne well, especially Alliser Thorne, and I would think they would have known him, and there is no way that many people are in on the plot.
I don't think Darkstar cut Myrcella. Doran knew about this scheme of Arianna's, because he had a mole with the group. I think the mole was the one that cut Myrcella and killing her wasn't the plan. Doran is the one claiming Darkstar did it, Arianna didn't see it happen. Mycella seemed instinctively to fear Drea. The Sand Snakes don't believe that Darkstar did it at first, like it is out of character for him to cut little girls.
I think Darkstar has spent his life growing up in the shadow of Arthur Dayne. He has worked hard to become Arthur's equal as a swordsman, but is always unfavorably compared to Arthur, regardless of if he is an equal or better fighter than Arthur. Darkstar was likely told simply that he would "Never Carry Dawn," but, wasn't given a reason that would make sense about why, like Robert is King and Dawn will remind him of Rhaegar.
It's not hard to see how Darkstar could have grown up into an Edgelord, to hide his frustration from forever being compared to his legendary uncle, but never seen to measure up. After a decade and a half of that, no wonder he comes across as rather salty.
You actually made Darkstar an interesting character. Kudos.
I was also always a little bit sceptical about Darkstar cutting the girl... idk why
Something that I really want to see happen in the books is for Edric Dayne to go North with the rest of the "good" members of the Brotherhood Without Banners and end up meeting his milk brother Jon Snow. I can see Edric Dayne becoming the squire for the potential King in the North. Given how he took care of Beric Dondarion, he should have a lot of experience with being the squire to undead guys lmao. Plus it would be pretty appropriate for the nephew of Arthur Dayne to squire for the son of his best friend!
Ned's résumé: squiring for revenants
I wonder if the 2020 vibe of apocalyptic apathy will impact how George sees Westeros. Like Darkstar becomes Sword of the Morning and instead of it being a huge controversy, the people of Westeros will be like "yeah that may as well happen too."
I could totally see edge lord Gerold wanting people to call him the sword of the evening
I know I commented already but I loved this video so much. I can’t see how it isn’t what grrm is going for. A recreation of the Roberts rebellion but with a fake version of each character... that’s gold!
A recreation without the substance
I have heard you propose this plot purpose for Darkstar a number of times previously. But this was truly an excellent job of thoroughly explaining your theory. It makes total sense to me. And I’m quite excited to hear your follow up with the related symbolism. You already did such an awesome job of explaining why this makes sense that I didn’t miss the typical mythical angle. But that makes me anticipate the follow up even more. And BTW, I love your ship name of the Sword & the Hammer. 😂
Glad you enjoyed it! It just came to me, seems right ;)
"Hammer and the Blade," technically :)
If this theory turns out to be true, Dawn will probably make it’s way north by Darkstar getting sent to the wall for what he did to Mercella.
Not sure if anyone’s mentioned this but it just occurred to me.
Seriously I can not get over the funny bits you've been putting in your videos. I don't know what it says about either of us but you are hilarious. It really does make the serious parts really stand out so that you do pay attention to it. And I also feel kindred connection to you because your theory crafting runs along my brain train tracks. Encouragement, gratitude and thanks. Your logic paths, I could get lost in them all day. Amazing job getting a lot of information into this without getting me lost.
❤️❤️❤️
I see Darkstar, I swoon, I click.
Darkstar was framed #darkstarwasframed. Yeah the 5 year time jump I was gunna say that... but you did so maybe I should wait to comment till I finish watching excuse me sir. You were saying?
You know I was really hoping for this to happen, but I never knew I wanted a video about it until this one. Always loved the Daynes.
Epic music check, LML check, Darkstar check,....oh well then! Its ON!!!!
Yasssss! Can’t wait to watch after work!
Watching after work lol
@@werdw4849 heheh
My man! You have the best TH-cam channel on ASOIAF. Hands down. I love it! Thanks so much! Great to see you almost at 30k subs!! You deserve so much more!
Just PayPal’d you. Was even easier than I expected. Keep up the good work
Hey thanks Matt! I just got it :)
Yay, a new LML video; I was going through withdrawals.
15:24 Arianne being with Faegon just like Elia and Rheagar. My gosh this is brilliant
It id so awesome that House Dayne has hella high standards when it comes to who can weild Dawn which is literally one of a kind. And knowing that the sword can go through generations of the family without being used gives us another way to know how impressive Arthur Dayne was. My favorite fight scene from the show was the tower of joy fight hands down i wish we could have got a sword fight that a2esome between john amd the night king i was always hoping that somehow john would end up having fight the night king in single combat as like a last resort where the stakes are if john dies then tje rests of the living would for sure be killed by the army of the dead afterwards
Like your commercial timings. So few TH-camrs bother. It's a very professional touch.
"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," I think Maggy the Frog meant Cersei's children will die as monarchs. I believe Darkstar killed Myrcella while she was a Queen, to Arianne's little group atleast, and Doran scarred Myrcella's cousin Rosalyn Lannister to pass her off to Balon. Myrcella died before Tommen in the show and I think that is something show got right.
No, I mean Myrcella is alive according to the last ADWD Martell chapter we got, so unless her wound is infected or something, she’s just disfigured. But that plot to crown her might be resurrected; Obara and Darkstar both want to start a war
@@DavidLightbringer I mean your the expert but I hope your wrong hahaha :)
I am Darkstraw and I am of the night. *slurp*
Gosh how I missed your / Quinn's uploads 😂got used to that August/Sept. frequency
Darkstar, my man!...
Agree with some of the others on here that Doran is scheming and Darkstar didn't do anything to Myrcella. Has any reliable character even seen her? Do we know if she was really cut at all?
I do agree w the overall idea of him stealing Dawn, but don't think he's quite as bad as Doran makes him out to be.
Your analysis is solid in logic. I have to agree with your assessment in how Dawn gets to where it needs to be. As for fAegon - wouldn't it be necessary for those that know his true lineage to hunt down and kill the Mountain, so that no eyewitness will be alive that can bring doubt to fAegon's claims?
No I mean the cover story for fAegon being real is that they swapped some poor person's baby into Aegon's crib, so the Mountain will say he smashed a little baby either way. He's a silent zombie now anyway so it's a moot point
@@DavidLightbringer Yeah, since he can't argue the point linguistically, you're right. Perhaps I over thought it. And no one will believe Cersi or those with her no matter what they say, so "fAegon's in" for those that chose to believe the claims about him.
Adding to your dark star will be a kings guard theory, I think B Selmy will end up on the gaurd with him. If he believes Dany is dead and one of his biggest life failures (death of Aegon) was a lie, how could he do anything else? I Feel like this makes the end of his story ark a dark parallel to its start.
I really want Jon "fake stark" to fight Darkstar "fake Arthur Dayne" in a tower of joy like moment and take Dawn to "New Starfall" aka where the meteor hit The Wall and fight the White Walkers.
I like it!
I bet they team up to bring a new long night
If you believe in the crackpot Gerold = Viserys theory, if would be a Targ who thinks he's a Stark fighting a Targ who thinks he's a Dayne
just about to settle into bed with some good lemon ha.ze and this pops up. When lml couldn't treat us anymore. Glad your back!!!
*You’re* you high bastard
I mean lemon haze is no milk of the poppy
Whether the dragon be black or red, it's still a dragon. There's no reason to call a Blackfyre a false dragon. Definitely pretenders to the throne, but no one could ever make the argument that they didn't have a legitimate blood claim.
They was legitimatized and came from two Targaryens . And the mother of Daemon should have been named Queen after her two brothers death.
Dark Star for Sword of the Evening!
i think ive said this before but it bears repeating - i really appreciate that you take the effort to put the title and artist of all the artwork in the actual video !
I know this has no relation with the topic of this video but I cam up with the idea that the gods of Valyria are in fact the nameless people from Asshai, which were people from the Empire of the Dawn(although at this point the great empire is broken). We even know their names(Balerion, Meraxes, Vhagar, Rhaenyra which are names of the Valyrian gods).
Also I would like to know your opinion about the coming of the First Men. Do you think there is a relation between the coming of the First Men and The Empire of The Dawn? Andals migrated because they wanted to escape being enslaved by Valyria? I'm not saying it's the same thing for the First men , but they either escaped or fled from a dangedous situation. Then they came to Westeros, where there were already some people from The Great Empire (Daynes, Hightowers)
The Hammer and the Blade, chapter 1: Ned pulled his sword from its sheath, flipped it, and handed it to Gendry pommel first. “I hear you’re the finest smith in the seven kingdoms,” he said....
The Hammer and The Blade indeed
This has to already exist somewhere
@@DavidLightbringer Finding it may be difficult; Shipping fanfic ain't my thing, but I've heard tell that you'll need to scroll through endless "Kirk helps Spock get in touch with his sensitive side" and "Draco teaches Ron his place in the class-order" stories to find The Hammer and the Blade.
I'd read that fic super hard. I'll write it if I have to
Brilliant! Totally makes sense. Nice one, dude!
Would be an interesting story twist if Jon actually was a Dayne and gets named Sword of the Morning.
Great video really enjoyed the info, theories and fun jokes
YES! New LmL always makes me happy.
Haven't had a chance to blaze all day!! finally get home from work and what do I see??? A new LML video!! perfect time to roll one up and relax!! keep up the awesome work!!
Your intro song makes me feel like I've reached the absolute pinnacle of ASOIAF theories. The final stage.
The Castle Aarrrggghhhhh
I like LML's reading voice I could listen to you & Quinn read chapters all day long, great vid 🔥
Someone let me know when that Gendric comic becomes a real thing.
sounds like canon to me. great meta analysis. nice little teaser at the end!
Excellent video!!! [Gen-dric]
Ain’t nothing good gonna come from that JonCon hand of grey death, no sir
@@DavidLightbringer With whats going on in the world right now I could see GRRM throwing a plague in the mix just for fun, he enjoys that kind of turmoil haha!
I also like the idea a post skip edric dayne being sword of the morning and later giving it to Jon somehow cause literally Neds his introduction in storm of swords is him telling Arya that he and Jon are milk brothers cause the same nanny breastfed them both
Like always, fantastic content. Thanks LML!
Hey guys, it's me again. Every time I come back to these my anticipation of TWOW goes through the roof.
#IbelieveinGeorge ✊
gives more meaning to sir arthur dane, as the sword was needed to defend the comming of john and then once he was birthed he passed.
I really wanna see Darkstar and Lyn Corbray have a conversation 🤣🤣
Bless you for including Gendric. BLESS YOU SIR!!!
equal opportunity shipping, yes
Oh my god this is going to be fun
Awesome as always!!! Thankyou !!!
unpopular opinion
Gerold Dayne,Darkstar is actually my guilty pleasure😁😁😁
Darkstar Dawnstealer, awesome
I think we are going to have both Darkstar and Edric in Winds. They are going to be simmillar to Jaime and Briene where some of Edric's kind heartedness will rub off on Darkstar.
I love these!!!! Thank you for making them :-)
The wait from the last video felt like the wait for TWOW...almost.
This is just what I needed tonight.
I’ve been down the rabbit hole.
Sword of the morning is what I call my morning wood
Thank you, convinced me even more that Jon is Asharas son and Faegon is the real Aegon (just dont know if hes Ellias or Lyannas son yet). Main reason I think Faegon is real is that chapter where JonCon seens Young Griff and him saying 'you have a fine castle' or whatever it was and lookung like his dad reminds JonCon of Rhaegar (who he loved).
Finally a fix I’ve been itching for more content like a real myth head
5:38 this picture right here has me laughing my ass off. The look on Edrics face is fucking hilarious. I picture him having mortys voice and saying ahh mr Dondarion sir are you are you still alive?? 🤣
Thank you for this. Really. Daynes and the Five Year Gap! Has someone been peaking at my Christmas Wish List?!
So great. Thank you
I find your intellect wildly attractive. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I love how much of an impression left in the fandom with such a little time on the book for people that say they hate him that much you guys talk to much about him
As always great theories. I can't wait for dark star's mythical astronomy treatment
Yes!!!
GRRM likes his redemption arcs, and story echoes . Dark Star May steal Dawn do some terrible things in the process and then slowly redeem himself, perhaps in the end giving the sword to Jon
Did Darkstar try to kill Marcella? Or did he really mark her? There were two Marcella's and now they can tell each other apart.
Great point. Even if that wasn't his intention, now the distinction is possible
@@made-line7627 Real Myrcella has 2 ears and now fake Myrcella is missing an ear/part of an ear/noticeable wound.
I like this theory a lot. I do. But I believe Young Griff is who he says he is. The dragon has three heads.
No he’s the mummer’s dragon. A fake dragon. Literally raised by mummer’s, Varys and Illyrio
You are thoroughly convincing, as always :D
Such a fun video!
I genuinely don’t understand why people don’t like Dark Star, there is literally no reason to call him unworthy or evil. Even the people that don’t like him think he was framed.
dude, how about the way he talks? To a nine year old girl? He's an edgelord to the max
Another great video. Always enjoy your work.
I appreciate that
what happened to Darkstar's parents? were they killed in a alleyway?
I actually predict that Ned Dayne WILL be the Sword of the Morning. I think Darkstar will steal Dawn and travel North to fight in the war for the dawn and he will die, possibly a heroic redeeming death but he will die nonetheless. Edric IS the Sword of the Morning, he has all the traits of a good knight, I know he's young but at this point in the story he has to be at least 15/16, that is old enough to weild the sword. If Rob can be King in the North at 16 then Ned Dayne can wield Dawn.
Two questions
1. Is edric (ned) dayne the current lord of starfall?
2. Who decides who is worthy to become sword of the morning?
Yes, and it’s unclear. The old ladies of castle Starfall? A supreme high council? Whoever is oldest? Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords? We have no idea
@@DavidLightbringer is there any symbolic "lady of the lake" figure that could give the sword to Jon? someone who is elfish in form I guess, maybe a child of the forrest in the gods eye, literally the center of a lake? I mean she was supposedly Lancelot's "fairy god mother" so to speak, so maybe someone like quaithe or another character who has that kind of role?
Dany. She'll het Dawn from defeating team fAegon, potentially. She was reborn from the sea. Mel does this for Stannis at Dragonstone, with Lightbringer planted in the surf
I like Darkstar and his of the night line
I still think we could see edric weild dawn (temporarily) and think it would be more poetic if he does.
By the time the main battle with the others edric will be at least 16, too young to be named sword of the morning but old enough to swing dawn.
I think darksar will steal dawn, edric will hear of it and be compelled to seek him out and reclam dawn for house dayne.
Darkstar isnt going to be answering any call to battle against the others, so edric reclaiming dawn gives a narrative for dawn getting north. After reclaiming the sword edric years of the battle, and decides to head north, before he has time to take dawn to starfall (or possibly chose not to) and heads north with it, dies in battle where the sword passed on (to Mance who is really Arthur dayne .......[I know but that fight with Jon when glamoured as rattleshirt at castle black......])
Just my punt, but I can't see darkstar wanting to go north, and it ties up both characters stories in a poetic way, family betrayal settles, edric becomes sword of the mornings in all but name/retrospectively as he'll act with valour and honour his family, is acting as a sword of the morning. Edric has a better narrative to head north, perhaps linked to hearing of aryas return.
I do think Edric could be involved in killing darkstar, yes. I like that idea. lot :) Ned killed Arthur, after all.
Great video! I wonder how Dawn will be stolen and what its fate will be after it is used by Jon Snow. If Ned Dayne's original story was going to see him die so that Jon could have the sword, it makes me wonder if part of stealing Dawn will result in Ned dying or something happening to him. As for how the sword gets to Jon - that will be interesting. I think the most likely option is Dany having some vision to bring it with her north after she defeats the mummer's dragon. But I would think House Dayne would be very upset that their ancient heirloom was stolen and then stolen again off to the north. I wonder what implications that could have for the future of Dayne especially after Jon no longer needs the sword.
The actor of Aemond in HotD can pretty sure nail the role of Darkstar.
Darkstar; who is he really? The fact that Ser Gerold Dayne is blamed by Doran Martell (a HUGE liar face) as slashing Myrcella's ear and face yet we never see it tells me it probably is not true. He's one of these characters who classically gets blamed for stuff they didn't actually do (the Mountain burning the Riverlands...it was Houses Piper and Vance first) yet we don't get their POV so we make the false assumption that it is true. George LOVES to mislead so I have think a statement that he has presented as true in this manner is not, despite it seeming so. Because why actually would Darkstar do that? He has no reason to harm the princess. The Martells are not very close to the Daynes since no Daynes are ever involved in known Martell plans. Let me clarify, I do think Darkstar is a dick who sucks and is creepy...but I don't think he harmed Myrcella...who also may be her handmaid, Rosamund. We don't know either way. Arys Oakheart seems pretty eager to die, and I believe it is because he is the only one who knows her true whereabouts, and wants it to stay that way. So in conclusion...Darkstar is a misunderstood pretty boy who will probably still try to steal Dawn and die.
Let me know when "Gendric: The Hammer and the Blade" is finished
I totally agree that he will wield dawn. But I don't believe dark star cut Myrcella. He was framed. Not sure why so many people take Doran Martell at his word? He is a proven lier and schemer. Arianne is our pov and she did not see what happened.
Yeah we’re gonna talk about this on the next livestream :)
I 👏 FKN 👏 LOVE 👏 THIS 👏
thank you. love it...so much.
Ser Gerold Dayne didn't cut Myrcella. Nobody saw it happen.
Darkstar - The edgiest of lords.
"One more lie for Daenerys to slay" oooooh I love that, and all the false "repeat" imagery with Rhaegar/Sword of the Morning and "I cant believe it's not Rhaegar!" (lool) and I aM oF ThE NiGhT
Always happy when people appreciate my attempts at humor :)
Yes, Dawn will come out to play before the end of the story, and it will all be because of Old Honorable Ned (Stark).
Hey LmL, Scorpiax is here. I fully support your vision of Darkstar stealing Dawn and joining fAegon’s side. I also think that as fAegon’s Kingsguard Darkstar will be sent to Riverlands to hunt down BwB outlaws (who I think Jaime will join and eventually become its leader after Lady Stoneheart arc is complete). Jaime will become the new Smiling Knight (or Smiling Lion which has proof of him described as smiling in the text) who will engage Darkstar in a combat for several narrative reasons: 1) Darkstar serves fAegon regime which will do something nasty to Tommen and Myrcella and Lannister regime, I can feel it 2) Darkstar will be extremely ruthless to the smallfolk and his general behavior as Sword of the Evening, besmirching the honor of House Dayne and the memory of Arthur Dayne, Jaime’s mentor who gave him knighthood with the very same Dawn. I am afraid Darkstar might become a kinslayer if Edric Dayne will stand on his path to acquire Dawn. I think unlike the first encounter between the Smiling Knight and the Sword of the Morning, Jaime will win his battle as leader of BwB and take Dawn as his sword.
Also, Brienne’s sigil of House Tarth showcases the possible transformation during dawn time. Another hint that Jaime will wield Dawn and then knight Brienne with the sword, paralleling his own knighthood by Dawn’s wielder.
And of course, I fully support that Jon Snow is destined to wield Dawn in the pivotal battle against White Walkers. And I believe that transfer of sword Dawn will manifest between Jaime and Jon (who I believe are related as uncle and nephew through Targaryen line, but it is not proven yet), and as former Lord Commander of Kingsguard, a white cloak, passing Dawn and his symbolic mantle of protector of people and realm to by then former Lord Commander of Night’s Watch, a black cloak, is a nice symbolic arc.
I think Beric Dondarrion’s season 7 and 8 arc is what I pretty much envision Jaime’s arc to be in the books for many reasons, except he will probably survive battle at Winterfell. Jaime will even have his own Clegane, Sandor, at his side as the head of BwB (and in the show, Sandor is by Beric’s side starting from end of season 6). Cersei/Gregor vs Jaime/Sandor parallel.
Also, Jaime envisions wielding a burning blue flamed sword alongside Brienne. I know it is more symbolic than literal, but Dawn is the only sword that comes to my mind which will product such a light, not red and orange kind one.
Truly honest, I think Jon’s Longclaw will get snapped like in Last Hero’s story when the night is darkest and undead enemies surround the living, so probably at this moment Jon somehow ends up with Dawn and saves the day. Whether he returns the sword to House Dayne is questionable (if House Dayne even exists by the end of the story) like his uncle Ned did, but my money is that he keeps the sword as his own even after his endgame exile to Night’s Watch.
Just some food for thought.
I like it, though having watched Preston's Riverlands videos, I tend to agree with him that the BWB is actually *assisting* the "Targaryen Restoration", by helping F/Aegon's conquest succeed. Other than that though, I really like your ideas
I think it might be possible that Jon is actually the son of Ashara and Ned, while Daenerys is the daughter of Lyanna and Rhaegar. I know it sounds farfetched but there is evidence for it. So if the former is the case perhaps Jon will become the new sword of the morning and die to defend Daenerys much like his uncle did. Idk just thought that could be an interesting parallel
He’s back!!!