How the Electronic Control Module (ECM) Adapts
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2021
- An Overview of How the Harley ECM Adapts to Different Conditions.
What do all those Acronyms Mean, & What do All those Sensors do?
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➡️ Link to Written Report Of How the Harley ECM Adapts and Works with Dynamic Tuners- www.dkcustomproducts.com/how-...
➡️ Link to Tuners we use- www.dkcustomproducts.com/efi-...
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You two do a great job of breaking down information into layman's terms and teaching people how/why things work. Very happy with the videos you produce and your great products!
Thank you, great to hear. Appreciate your business and Very Happy that you are digging the parts.
Jim, you took the words right off my keyboard!
Bravo to you guys for bringing this information to us in understandable language.
Very useful information for riders, like to know what the normal Air inlet temperature?
Great breakdown of terminology used within the fuel injection system and all the different sensors sending info to ECM to put together/put out adjusted parameters for engines operation. Something there for everyone to learn in that video for sure. I'm still playing catch up with your videos since discovering your channel 2mos ago. THANK YOU!!!
Thanks for the very informative videos guys. Always look forward to new DK Customs videos!
Thanks, glad you liked, and appreciate the comment.
Information is power. Thanks guys. knowing what you are getting for the money is priceless. great job.
Thanks, and glad you like the videos. 👍
Finally a video that gives a ton of useful information in a short period of time.
Definitely appreciate the clarity and how you tie it altogether.
Great to hear you found the video useful.
Thank you for the comment, much appreciated. 👍😎👍 KP
Thanks for all the information that DK
Puts out.
Thanks man, appreciate the comment and glad you're enjoying the videos.
I love you putting the pictures of the sensor in the video.
Cool, glad you are finding the videos useful. Thank you for the comment. 👍
Appreciate the awesome video, DK customs thanks for sharing the information..👍👍
Thank you, glad you're finding the useful/interesting. 👍😎👍
Thank you, for all the details.
👍
WOW, this is your best video! Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Excellent basic explanation! 👍
Thank you! 👍
Well said Gentlemen! You guys have an amazing way of explaining complicated issues in a way that makes them easy to understand. I am looking forward to using your products to improve my bike. I'm almost sold on the PowerVision . Will certainly consider it when done with a PROPER stage 1 upgrade. Seems like a no-brainer rather than monkeying around with dyno-tuning and wondering what you have afterwards. Thanks again!
Thank you for the kind words, they are much appreciated!
Glad you are digging the videos and finding them useful.
Thank you for your business. 👍😎👍
Real great info guys on the Ecm. 😎👍🇨🇦
Thank you, glad you liked. 👍
Awesome information. Thank you guy's
Thank you! Glad you're finding the videos useful/interesting. 👍
Very good basic info on what is what
Thanks man, high compliments coming from you. 👍
The OE tune had the bike running 280*F+! Did my homework, read a lot about air cooled engines (old Porsches run 11.5 to 1 AFR) , set my PowerVision up to watch all the info, & wrote a full tune that runs 12.2 to 11.7 AFR. Now my bike gets to 246 only the the hottest days but usually runs in the 230s. Still getting 38-39 mpg while running an open AC, breather bolts, & a V&H Comp 2into1. You guys are great & have some of the most informative vids on Harleys on youtube, thanks guys!
Thanks man, glad you're digging the videos. Good to hear you are happy with how your bike is running!!! 👍
Thanks for the info man
No problem 👍 Glad you are finding the videos helpful!
Thanks for commenting! 😎
Excellent info. I balked at fuel injection as well. Us stubborn graybeards love our carburetors.
Yes, that is true...it was really hard to accept. I have now been fully immersed in the EFI for 13 years now, but still prefer the sound of a carbed bike.
Thank You ...Great Show/;-))) Peace
Glad you like the video! Thank you for commenting! MB
I appreciate the videos..
We appreciate you watching them! Thank you!
Great info I would like to know a little more about the IAC and how that works with relation to other sensors
The idle air control (IAC) valve is located on the throttle body of fuel-injected engines, where it works with the vehicle's ECU to electrically regulate airflow to the engine to ensure smooth idling.
Dwayne and I have an experiment that we will be videoing in the next few weeks that will monitor the following:
1. Oxygen content in the air cleaner, with and without an EBS
2. Carbon Monoxide content in the air cleaner, with and without an EBS
3. IAT (intake Air Temperature) in the air cleaner, with and without an EBS
Should be interesting! 👍😎👍 KP
I am learning so much to listen to your videos. Does this ECM exist on my 2018 H-D Trike? A big thank you
Glad you are liking the videos and finding them useful. Thank you for the comment.
Yes, 2018 H-D Trike has the ECM described in the video.
Thank you so much for this tutorial. I now have a little bit of a clue of what's going on with the ECM. At a minimum you would probably want to get a bike tune by someone that can tune a stock bike for best performance.
Good to hear you found the video useful. Before getting a tune, check out this video- th-cam.com/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/w-d-xo.html
excellent info fellas. I got my outlaw 587 with EBS in the mail today and its going on my Road King tonight !
Glad you liked the video. Appreciate the comment.
Thanks for your business, I believe you will be pleased with the 587 on your RK. 👍
Installed the 587 on the ‘21 Road King. I rode about 30 minutes and shut the bike off a few times. Looks great and breaths better but killed a lot of low end torque. will the ecm keep learning and adjust to it more over several more hrs of riding ? stock tune. I wasnt planning on getting any kind of tuner until the ‘21s have been sorted out with good reviews
@@zactew6508 M8's, 2020 and earlier, a free flow a/c does not reduce low end torque...it increases it. We have done no testing on the 2021 M8's. It is a bit perplexing what they could have done to the 2021's that would reduce the torque with more air....unless they are terribly lean stock.
Here is a chart of a M8 with stock tune and a 587 A/C. As you can see it increased torque and HP thru-out the entire RPM range. I don't doubt what you experienced, just don't understand it.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/media/wysiwyg/Stock_Stock_587.jpg
Thanks for the reply. Its the only modification currently. Ive got some S&S slip ons but put the stock ones back on until i install the thunder torque inserts. Ran really strong yesterday and is struggling with low end with just the 587. Quite honestly from messing with carbed bikes over the years it does feel lean. i guess the 21s are still a mystery with the new ECM.
@@zactew6508 Strange....I would check the install and make sure there is no leak anywhere....the intake from the throttle body to each cylinder has a tendency to leak...that would cause what you are experiencing...or just do what we used to, let it idle and spray all around behind the air cleaner and see if it changes the rpm at all...then you will know that there is a leak.
If there is no leak...to me it would be worth it to put the factory air cleaner back on and see if that made a difference...then you would know that it was the free flowing air cleaner, and not something else that happened while A/C was being installed.
20% is quite a bit! I love my trike! The stage two torque kit makes a huge difference!!!
Yes it is. Unlike a carbed bike that does not run well at sea level and 13,000 feet elevation, the fuel injected bikes do, because the ECM has a significant ability to adjust.
Have you seen this video? th-cam.com/video/GK5x3lcQvJU/w-d-xo.html
I installed my 606 ebs today on a 17 road glide, short road test, I’ll have more to come 😎 seemed to be great!
Cool! We appreciate your business, and I believe you will be well please with that intake system!
Good information on Harley's ECM. Does the information discussed (like the 20% adjustability) apply to the M8 ECM as well as the Twin Cam ECM? I have a 2020 Limited (114) with the RDRS system and was wondering if I really need a tuner??
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed the video.
Yes, it applies to the 17-20 M8's. We have not tested the 2021's yet. Here is a video, specifically about the M8's and tuning that you may find useful-
th-cam.com/video/aWW-nt7-fzA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks
Glad you found it useful. 👍😎👍
First time here > LOVED IT. THANK YOU, from Australia..
Glad you like the video! Thanks for commenting! MB
Good job guys. Could you make a video about order Harleys eg Dyna wide glide100th
Not sure what kind of video you are asking about regarding Wide Glides. Here is a video we made of Dwayne's Wide Glide and how he Made it his own-
th-cam.com/video/Ql-02sQTJoQ/w-d-xo.html
Glad you like the video! Thanks for commenting! KP
That was a great breakdown of how an ECM operates. Great explanation of closed vs open loop. I run a Power Vision on my bike-I have a canned map from them. I am not bright enough to start monkeying with it :). I will be getting a decatted two into one system over the winter, and getting the DynoJet auto tuner to let it do its thing.
Thank you, glad you found the video useful. Your Power Vision should already have the auto-tune functionality built into it. There is an additional module that works with the Power Vision called a Target Tune. You can see more details on it at the link below. It is a great addition. I run it on one of my bikes. While it is expensive, it is a whole other step up in tuning for a built engine. www.dkcustomproducts.com/power-vision-tuner-accessories-c120-241.htm
@@DKCustomProducts I am picking up the Target tune over the winter, when I get the decatted heads for the bike. My winter project :). Next year is the cam upgrade. Theoretically, after that, I am done. I do the work myself-most isnt overly difficult, just time consuming. But, I live in New England...ideal time to do major upgrades is over the winter.
@@oldsoldier181 I really like the Target Tune, it really is quite amazing how well it works on my Stage IV, high compression 1250 Sporty. Huge improvement...a dyno tune cannot touch what this thing does.
@@DKCustomProducts So quick question, as I cant really seem to find an answer for this: Once I put the target tune in there, does that make my Power Vision obsolete? Or does it work with the map I have in there?
@@oldsoldier181 The Target Tune works in conjunction WITH the Power Vision. When you get the Target Tune you will need a new map in the Power Vision that is Target Tune Specific. Also, you will have new things on the Power Vision that you can monitor. (if you choose to do so, it is not necessary). I really like that it will display the AFR real time as being read by the wide band sensors that are part of the Target Tune package.
all this sure sours my likes for motorcycles
I am sorry to hear that! What exactly sours your like for motorcycles?
Is it a motorcycle or a computer with 2 wheels and a handlebar? I can troubleshoot and repair a motorcycle but not computers@@DKCustomProducts
@@DKCustomProducts The all new 2030 CompuGlide. Comes with virtual reality, ride it in bed, no need to go outside
I agree that things were much simpler before everything became so dependent on computers, but Harley has been using ECM since the late 90's and it became standard in 2007. I would prefer things stay simple and mechanic, but that just isn't the case.
You guys have any Information on if the 2021’s can add a air cleaner or full exhaust without a tuner yet?
In 2021 HD changed the ECM and we have not yet done any testing on the 2021's to see if they also changed the AFR and/or how the ECM adjusts for different circumstances. Here is a video that may be useful...we will be testing in the next couple of months. th-cam.com/video/aWW-nt7-fzA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the video. Well done. what I would like to know is, is it worth getting a power vision target tune with wide band o2 censors? I understand that the wide bands read a wider range of AFR but why is that better. The narrow bands will correct for rich or learn as is.
Narrow band sensors adjust the AFR in closed loop only. Closed loop only works with low throttle and low load situations. Once you go a heavy load or more than 50% throttle you are in open loop and no adjustments are made to the AFR (except from the LTFT). That is where Wide Band Sensors are valuable. They can read and AFR at 50% or more throttle, and with the use of a Target Tune they can adjust the AFR in that range also.
The narrow band will correct for rich or lean ONLY in closed loop, and to a small, and not very precise manner, in open loop via the LTFT.
There is a very good video that explains open and closed loop and LTFT (and more). I highly recommend watching it, I believe it will answer your question.
th-cam.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/w-d-xo.html
Also, there is a good short overview of the benefits at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-target-tune-for-the-power-vision-harley-efi-tuner-dk-pv-tt.htm
You ask is it worth getting a Power Vision with a Target Tune with the wide band sensors.
What is worth it to one person is not worth it to another.
IF you are looking to get the absolute more power out of the bike, and/or the best MPG, and/or the smoothest running, the best way to do that is with the PV and the Target Tune.
Only you can answer if getting all of those things is worth the $ to you.
To some it is, to others, getting that extra power and mpg is not worth the extra cost to them.
After watching the above video, and reading all the description at the above link, please feel free to email or call with any questions.
Thank you for your comment and for looking at our parts.
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Thanks you so much for your response!@@DKCustomProducts
👍😎👍
I have a 21 Softail Standard, I just changed stock air filter for a K&N and now my ECM is throwing code p1510 and check engine light keeps coming on, but it seems to be running fine other than that
P1510 EFI Limited Performance Mode
Is that the only code you're getting? Usually it is related to a Throttle by wire issue...a problem with wiring or connections.
Seriously considering one of your FL-VIEDs for my '11 Road King. It's stock except for a set of Python slip ons, and I'm about to add one of your external breather kits. Do you guys offer a veteran discount?
We do. Please email Support@DKCustomProducts.com or via phone at 662-252-8828 for your discount code. Thank you for your service.
I enjoyed this informative video very much!
At about 0:20 you tell us that E.C.M. stands for ELECTRONIC Control Module. I thought E.C.M means ENGINE Control Module.
I wish to politely ask, might you have made a minor error with that?
At about 14:54 you begin to speak of the carbureted motorcycles, and how you didn't want an EFI.
I swear I believe that's what I want NOW! And points and condenser too!
Thank you again for this video!
Glad you enjoyed.
Yes, carbed bikes generally sound better, definitely easier and less expensive to work on.
Yes, in the general EFI world ECM stands for Engine Control Module.
BUT, if you look in the Harley Manual or Parts book, you see that they refer to the ECM as the Electronic Control Module.
@@DKCustomProducts Thank you for educating ME, and the rest of the people who want to LEARN ! You are SO easy to understand that the subject matter sinks RIGHT INTO our brains!
I am surprised the fuel trim is that lean. Is that why they came out with the liquid cooled heads so they don't burn things up
The Twin Cooled bikes do NOT have liquid cooled heads. They do have a coolant tract that goes around the exhaust valves only.
Here is a video explaining what Twin Cooled is and is not- th-cam.com/video/wRRtRYWm5rw/w-d-xo.html
The AFR is lean on all Twin Cams and Sportys, from the factory, the M8's are Not To lean, as you can see in this video- th-cam.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/w-d-xo.html
And in this written report with AFR charts- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
Harley is in a Catch-22, as outlined in the video link below. They have to meet standards, and the M8 went a long way toward meeting those standards without being to lean. They also want to maintain the classic HD look and sound. The Twin Cooling is their attempt to do that, albeit, not a very productive one.
th-cam.com/video/N0kLaVQhbW4/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for commenting! KP
My 2014 Softail revs high after it’s hot and I’ve been ripping on it on the freeway. The idle stays at about 2,300rpm and doesn’t kick down until the bike comes to a complete stop. I’ve been told to try resetting the ecm. How is this done? I have read that I turn the ignition (console switch) on for 10 seconds and then off for 10 seconds and repeat this 4 times. Is this correct?
I don't know, have you tried it? If not, you are not going to hurt anything by doing that.
One way that can work is to disconnect the battery for 15 minutes, this will "resettle" the ECM.
Hi Kevin, hi Dwean,
you Maike a Great Job.
My motorcycle sometimes sends error code P0152c in thrust mode.
Mostly when I drive down a Hill with two people.
The rear cylinder is running too rich.
Can I simply clear the error?
Or is it an essential error that indicates a serious malfunction?
What you describe in an intermittent signal that the rear cylinder is too rich. There are a number of reasons you could be getting this error code.
Could be a sensor going out, could be that you are actually too rich, could be a bad wire. Could be that your bike and whatever mods you have done are not playing nice with the ECM.
What year and model Harley do you have, and importantly, what engine and/or exhaust mods have been made.
For example, if you have a 2018 or later Sportster, they regularly throw that code when they have a good tune....because the ECM is wanting it to be leaner than a good tune.
@@DKCustomProducts Thank you Kevin,
how much horsepower do you think you can realistically get out of an M8 114 cui engine with Stage II?
With Manifold 64mm, injectors 5.5 SE,
More and more videos are appearing on the net that show unbelievable performance of about 130hp, supposedly at the rear wheel.
Is that possible, or are these performances measured at the clutch and you have to deduct about 13%.
Greetings Thomas
@@Tom-ck8hg As you can see from the following video, we do not pay too much attention to horsepower, our focus is more on torque. th-cam.com/video/DOxzN8r35O4/w-d-xo.html
By going with the larger throttle body and a hp cam, you can get 130 hp at the rear tire, but doing that you will give up torque.
If you are like most folks that ride a Harley, you really like the feel the the torque...for that you should stay with the factory throttle body (the larger will slow down the intake charge, reducing the torque felt up to around 5000 rpm). If you go with a Performance Stage I (see video on that here- th-cam.com/video/GK5x3lcQvJU/w-d-xo.html ) and then a good torque cam, you will be getting close to 130 torque, and that is a lot of fun!
Great Video! 2005 EFI Road king. What is the process to replace the ECM. How Much?
It unplugs, and new one plugs in.. You would need to check with a Dealership to find the price, although, we are seeing a MSRP of $429.65, PLUS it will need to be programmed to your bike. Don't know what they will charge for that.
@@DKCustomProducts No click no crank. fuses & relays look good. Its a 2005 RK. I guess i'll hard wiring the starter button with a relay and a fuse to bypass the ECM.
Is the fuel pump working, just not the starter?
Have you checked the positive and ground wires and connections?
If other electrical items are working, just not the starter...I would be looking at all the cables and connections first.
If the fuel pump is working, then before doing that whole bypass procedure...have to tried putting power directly to the starter?
09 harley with no power when ignition is on, battery is good, i even tested power at the switch, even put a jumper in, in place of the switch, all fuses good and nothing when ignition is on, died while riding, any ideas, thanks again
I would retest the fuses, using the back side of the fuse with a multi-meter.
It was only a month or so ago when I had something not working...I checked the fuse (visually) and believed it to be good. I then spent another hour tracing back all the wires, thinking there was a problem with a wire being compromised. Everything was good...so I went back to the fuses, and sure enough, even though it looked good, when I tested with the meter at the test points (either side of the amp rating) the fuse was bad.
Hope it is that simple for you.
So, my FP3 that came with ours, sends input to the ecm?, or is it over riding the ecm?.
The FP3 is a flash tuner. It overwrites the tune in the ECM with a different tune. It is not constantly sending input to the ECM. It just does it once when you "flash" a new tune to the ECM. However, the FP3 can constantly receive information from the ECM that is then displayed on your smartphone. More info can be seen on the FP3 at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/v-h-fuelpak-fp3-efi-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-for-stage-i-ii-s-dk-vh-fp3.htm
@@DKCustomProducts ,are they any good?, I keep hearing more negative than positive.
@@kevingleason5434 The FP3 does a good job on stock and Stage I bike, ok on Stage II bikes. I prefer the Power Vision, much more flexible. But the FP3 is solid when used for what it's made for. I've run it on one of my Stage I bikes and was very happy with it.
Is it possible to buy a used Ecm from eBay and use it on a 2015 street glide? If so are there other parts that are needed to make the bike functional?
Is it possible? Yes, but how would you know if the ECM was any good? You would need a functioning ECM that is for your year and model SG. Then the ECM & TSSM must be "password learned" at the dealership using the digital technician so both are "married" to each other.
Hi Guys , have a 2017 RK Special. Had the head gaskets go at 30K. When replaced the ECM throwing up fault on O2 Sensors lean and Rich , the bike is jittering at low speed , once over 40 kmh it rides out fine . Will the ECM control that better over time ?
From what you describe, something was either done wrong when the head gaskets were replaced, OR, there is another problem in addition to the bad head gaskets.
Whoever did the work should be looking at it to get it completely fixed. The ECM will not adjust or correct for whatever problem there is that caused it to throw O2 sensor codes.
Without having the bike in front of us it is not possible to know what the issue(s) is. HOWEVER, my first thing to look at is WHY did the head gaskets let loose? If that was not addressed, it is likely the current issue.
Between the O2 Sensor codes and the jittery feeling at low speed, it could be intake or exhaust leaks...or could be the heads or cylinders are warped and the new head gaskets on not sealing well. It could be a lot of things....the above are just some common reasons....not possible to know without having the bike in front of us.
Thank you for commenting! 😎 MB
@@DKCustomProducts thanks for the reply , this is one of many issues I’ve encountered with the M8 engine , it seems it was just a bad buy and Harley have no interest in sorting it apart from replace everything that goes . The fixes for all the problems are great to know but they did t look after the customers that bought them when they first came out and here we are paying twice for a bike that’s caused so many issues I’ve never seen the like if it in 35 years of riding bikes of every make.
The new gaskets were the so called up graded ones . I think the issue is just the wrong fuel air mix which is why I was asking about the ECM re regulating it after re setting it .
Anyway thank you .
Yes, many companies, HD included, have some troubles the first few years a new technology is introduced. 2017 was the first year of the M8, and it was late 2019/early 2020 before they got the majority of the bugs worked out.
This is why many folks do not choose to be "first adopters", but wait for 2-3 years on new tech.
If it is an AFR issue you are experiencing, with the symptoms you describe, it will need to be tuned...those symptoms are too far outside the parameters of the ECM being able to adapt.
KP
I have a 2013 Electra Glide which my mechanic gave me the bad news that the ECM died. He stated that I would need a new ECM due to it being mapped to my bike's VIN. A used ECM would not work. Per Harley, ECM's for my bike are on back order until September 2023. Would you have any idea on how to get a new ECM for my bike sooner? Any assistance would be appreciated. ~Mark~
I believe there is a way for a used ECM to be programmed to your bike. I would call Jamie at V-Twin Repair. He should be able to answer that for sure, and help you. 901-584-5760
Welcome. Please help me. When I press the start button to start my bike, the code (n3k) appears on the speedometer screen, and the bike does not start. I do not know what the problem is. My bike is a 2008 Road King Classic. I hope you can help me. faisal
The following may be of some help.
I do not believe n3k is the code displaying. I have never seen that code, nor do 5 minutes of searching show that this is a code.
At the following link there is a list of all Harley codes.
university.fuelmotousa.com/article/harley-davidson-diagnostic-trouble-codes-dtc/
If you look over that list of the possible codes, then take another look at your speedo and you will probably be able to match up what is trying to display on your speedo with a code in the list.
Then you will have a place to start looking at what the problem is.
Thanks for watching our videos and commenting.
Hope you are back in the wind soon!
can u help me?my sporster 883 the wiring map sensor no light when im test with the test pen no light.but the map sensor i already change the new 1.. is it the ecm problem?
If you had not already changed the MAP sensor, I would suspect that it was gummed up from all the hot, oily air being fed into the intake. You put a new sensor in...so I would look carefully at the wiring for any breaks & clean the connector and see if that works. My next step would be to look at the actual new sensor being defective out of the box....see if you can find another one that you know is working, and test it out on your bike.
After that, I would see if I could get it on a digital tech to see what it says.
Oh, before that, have you checked for error codes?
@@DKCustomProducts yup i already check the error code is map sensor problem..but i check the wiring red n white is no light..when i try my friend bike the wiring is have light when i put my test pen tester.. can u tell me the wire of red n white is from ecm or what?
@@mapreymaprey1008 I wish I could man. I am on a road trip right now, no access to my FSM's. Getting a FSM for your year 883 will give you the wiring diagram. Sorry could not be more help.
The information you read,where can I get a copy?
www.dkcustomproducts.com/how-the-harley-ecm-electronic-control-module-works-with-dynamic-tuners.htm
I have an 02 ultra classic was riding on highway and the bike shut down. Won't restart . Have new plugs ,plug wires,new coil, checked crank position sensor checked fuel pump fuel filter . Bike still won't start it's cranks but doesn't turn over . I been working on it for over a month I don't know what else to do . I can't seem to find the ignition control module and believe the BAS is part of the of tssm . Any suggestions
Man, would love to help, but troubleshooting over the internet is difficult. I do have these thoughts that may be helpful:
Get the HD Service Manual for your bike. I would not work on my bike or someone else's bike without one.
Fuel and Spark. Gotta have both. Easy start is to pull the plugs, and turn it over and see if you have spark. If so, move to the fuel (carb or EFI). If no spark, then start down that path.
@@DKCustomProducts yeah I have spark checked it with mine spark tester have the manual on order just been a month since I have ridden and you know how that goes . Appreciate your response you guys keep up the great work .
I hope you get it figured out! Thanks for commenting!
My 95 trike will crank but will not start the fuel pump is working could it be coil?
Harley did not make a Trike in 1995. So yours is a conversion.
We don't know what Harley was used in the conversion....Touring, Dyna, Softail, Sportster?
Also, is it carbed or EFI?
There are so many things it could be, from bad fuel to plug wires, to plugs, to clogged jets in the carb.
To answer your question, yes, it could be the coil, but I would check to see if the plugs are sparking, and if not, then look at new plugs and plug wires. If it is sparking, then start looking at the fuel system.
A little help here...I have a 96ci 2016 Streetbob stock. Stage 1. I have major overheating problems. Can the dealership retune the exist stock ECM to run a bit richer to the max they can push it (can it be remapped)...or I have to invest in a tuner like PV or FP3 and do stuff myself?
The Dealership cannot do any tune on the bike other than a too lean, EPA compliant, tune on a Twin Cam. Even a ViED, which richens up the AFR is better than a dealership tune. You can see those at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/fl-vied-fuel-enrichment-for-harley-efi-plug-n-play-more-details-dk-flvied-10-nr.htm
Whether you use the ViED, a PV or a FP3 or 4, going from a stock tune to a good tune is only going to lower your temps by about 15 F.
While a good tune is very important, it is a myth that it will take a bike that is running much too hot and cool it down to optimum temps.
Here is a written report on the subject- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
Here is a video on low and no cost ways to cool down your ride- th-cam.com/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/w-d-xo.html
@@DKCustomProducts Hey thanks for the reply. Yes i do understand from your other videos...a good tune is 1 of the many mods that can add up to effectively cooling down the engine temps. My additional consideration being a head air-cooler to my to-do list.
My country is pretty warm to hot temp, the bike can't take it. I have had engine shut off for 30mins, waiting for it to cool down before it could start back against. Poor thing.
Sounds like you have a good handle on things that can be done...no one big thing, but many "little" things that each add some benefit, and added together, make a big change.
Thanks for sharing.
@@DKCustomProducts Learnt alot from your videos. Thank you on behalf of all the ignored H-D owners.
@@dinshak86 we are glad you're liking our videos, thanks for watching! We are always happy to help fellow riders. We appreciate your support, ride safe!
Harley Davidson Dealerships put aftermarket exhaust V&H stage 1 and dyno the bike with the orange screaming eagle tuner and installed O2 sensors bypass kit and ECM runs in open loop for performance. Is this ok for the bike I don't care about EPA emissions.
What year and model bike? Is it running strong, not too hot? Did mpg stay close to the same after that work was done?
@@DKCustomProducts2011 CVO Convertible with the 110 twin cam. I believe the tech said something about ordering a new set of O2 sensor removal kit because the front one was bad. I am confused because when HD did the stage 1 I thought they put new O2 sensors with the pipes. Orginal HD pipes still have the O2 Sensors in them. They didn't use them on the new pipes. And new pipes don't come with sensors. I can't find my records to show what I was charged. HD won't use my orange tuner because of lawsuit. If ECM is bad I am out of luck.
@@Dave-zy6de To run properly, especially if you ride in changing altitudes, your exhaust should have o2 sensors. Getting an independent shop that is familiar with your race tuner and they should be able to give you a good tune (one you have o2 sensors installed). Don't waste your money on the current tuner HD is using.
Also, that 110 is infamous for running way too lean and too hot, so this really is something you should get done.
@@DKCustomProducts Thanks for the advice I will take it to another shop.
@@Dave-zy6de No problem, thanks for watching & good luck!
Is it possible to switch the efi to carburator?
Yes, it is possible. We have never done it, but we have seen some folk who have with both Twin Cam's and M8's.
It can be quite an expensive and complicated process, to varying degrees, depending on what year and model bike you have.
We are not aware of any shop that specializes in doing this.
Where is the ECM located at on a 2000 harley davidson electriglide
There are three different Electraglide's in 2000. One is EFI and the other two are carbureted. Even the EFI model from 2000 is quite a bit different than the ECM from 2007-2016 and 2017-2022.
You can see them by clicking on the following LINK and then clicking on the OEM Harley-Davidson Partfinder tab. Then click on your year bike, and then model. It will then bring up a list of diagrams of every part on your bike.
www.shopronniesharleydavidson.com/
Question:
If a Harley Davidson comes with narrowband O2 sensors stock, which are reading AFR’s in the narrowest of bands, say stoichiometric + or -.5 how does a Harleys stock ECM change its AFR calibrations plus or -20% with any accuracy? Another words, I have no doubt that the computer can make the 20% AFR changes required, I just doubt the information being given to the ECM to make those calibration changes. Wouldn’t true wide band O2 sensors be required for true accuracy? Thanks guys! Good show as always.
Glad you're liking the videos. Thank you for the comment and question. 👍😎👍
Methinks you did not watch the entire video. Your question is specifically addressed, starting at around the 10:55 mark.
Here is a copy & paste synopsis of it from the report linked in the description.
The second way the ECM ADAPTS is via "Adaptive Fuel Value" or "Adaptive Fuel" (reference the HD brand Tuners to see that this is a feature of the ECM) This is commonly what is referred to as the Adaptive Learning Mode.
Adaptive Fuel is known generally in the EFI world as Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT).
When in closed loop the ECM uses the information from the above list to calculate airflow, load, temperatures, throttle position, to adapt and maintain the targeted AFR in the closed loop section of the map.
It then uses the o2 sensors to determine what the AFR actually is. If there is a difference, the ECM makes an adjustment real time to the closed loop map, AND stores the difference in an "Adaptive Fuel Value" cell for future use in Open Loop. (again, reference the HD Brand Tuners to verify that there is an Adaptive Fuel Value" that is stored in the ECM and that is constantly changing)
Over time (30-120 minutes of riding) the Adaptive Fuel Value develops a correction profile that is applied to each cell of the map in open loop.
To put it another way, when the ECM sees the closed loop values constantly being richer than expected (like when using an XIED family product), the Long Term Fuel Trim (Adaptive Fuel Value) is increased, resulting in a richening up of the open loop values.
@@DKCustomProducts I totally get the long term fuel trim from close loop table transfer to the open loop interface. I should’ve asked my question a different way. I apologize.
What I am asking is.. can the information that’s gathered from the O.E. narrow band O2 sensor to the ECM while in closed loop be trusted in the first place? Does that make more sense? Erroneous information going in should by my calculation be erroneous information going out. Does one put stock into a narrowband O2 sensor over a wideband O2 sensor? We run data acquisition on field sampled material at my work. If we used a test probe that wasn’t able to see the full dimension in gases (let’s say a narrowband only O2 sensor as an illustration example only here), how would we trust the data sent to the brain for recalibration? How would we know the information in the ECU in closed loop is solid info for the open loop table? Heck, for the primary closed loop even?
Does this make sense? Thanks again for the video!
The only thing I’m thinking (regarding narrowband accuracy) is that while in closed loop you’re pretty much riding at highway speeds not putting much load on the motor while you’re running at or near stoichiometric, there by making a larger spectrum wide band sensor not as crucial for AFR/Lambda readings in that particular riding situation. This is just a guess, 🤷♂️
I am certainly not a skilled tuner😆
Still,, do you know any skilled tuners utilizing dynamometers running narrow band O2 sensors during their tuning sessions to create their individual and Unique Open Loop, maps?
@@noonespecial1217 Ah, yes, I understand your question. I am running a bike with Target Tune (see link below) and it uses wide band sensors, to dynamically adjust the tune while riding. It is a HUGE improvement.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/power-vision-tuner-accessories-c120-297.htm
That said, while the narrow band certainly has its' limitations, the bikes can run pretty good with them, and that is what they all come with. Would wideband run better? No doubt. While it is a bit pricey, those that want that extra edge can get it.
So I have a fat boy cvo 2006 supposed to have no 02 sensors for years . Bought bike and has Vance Hines big radies pipes kn air intake and was dyno. Problem is check engine light on with p0134 code from 02 sensor open not responding. Bike has no 03 sensors I see . Vance Hines pipes have plugs in them . Stock none . Mechanic want 700 to rerun dyno . Bike runs good as it . Just bought bike . Any idea for easier fix than 700 bucks
Only way I know to do it for less is to buy and install the o2 sensors yourself, OR to call fuelmoto and find out about getting a power commander tuner that does not use o2 sensors.
What was the first year for the Harley Trike?
1932 for the sevicar and 2009 for the tri glide
What Joey said.
2014 for the Freewheeler.
I said same thing about fuel injection.
Yeah, it was a big hurdle to get over...I still have one carbed bike.
I got a 05 Deuce with 8900 miles back in August of 2019.It does have EFI but there is no 02 sensors on the pipes at all.The bike just has 10400 miles now.How can the ecm able to control gas and air mix without the 02 sensors.No history came with the bike.Iv had the 10k service done the day I got the bike but the machanic never mentioned anything about not having the 02 sensors.But yet the bike runs great the plugs burn clean each time IV check them.
05 was back when HD was still experimenting with EFI. It was not until 07 that what we talk about in this video became relevant...that is when HD went to delphi EFI and got their EFI standardized to what it is today.
@@DKCustomProducts I too have an 05 with EFI, so what options do we have, if any?
@@marks146 Yeah, before 2007 HD was experimenting with different EFI systems. I would call or email fuelmoto and check into the Power commander, it works with EFI bikes with no o2 sensors.
@@DKCustomProducts thank you. I learn lots from you both.
Can an eco be reprogrammed to learn modifications
What is an eco?
The ECM on 2007 and later Harley's will learn and adjust to moderate changes. On 2017 and later M8's they learn and adjust to even more modifications...up to a Stage I (free flowing exhaust and intake). For any mods more than that the bike will need a tune change (reprogrammed) and then they learn and adjust from that new tune.
Maybe this is my problem with my 2015 street 750
We have done no work or testing of the Harley-Davidson Streets. Sorry we can not help with that.
Perhaps there is a forum that you can ask for more help on.
Thank you for commenting! 😎 MB
Can I run my 2008 heritage with out o2 Cencors
It might run, but it will not run correctly. The ECM is looking for that feedback from the o2 sensors in order to know how much fuel to give the bike.
@@DKCustomProducts thank u
I have 2017 114 with thunderheader slip-ons stock map stage 4 … don’t run good too Lean .. can put better map , if I do so loss extend warranty..
Yeah, that is not a good thing HD is doing. What I do, and thousands of others...
Get a refund on that extended warranty and spend less to get a good extended warranty that will not penalize you for doing what you want to your own bike.
Here's a video on the subject- th-cam.com/video/p8U4XsHyBug/w-d-xo.html
@@DKCustomProducts thank you for your great information, keep up your great work
@@richardgonzalez8327 Glad you found it useful. Thank you for the kind words.
I replaced my CKP,spark plugs & wires,spark plug coil pack. Still will not start. IF I replaced my ECM do I have to take it to a dealership after changing it ?? I'm thinking about buying a new ECM
It is very rare, extremely rare, for an ECM to need replacing. I would continue to troubleshoot to eliminate other possibilities.
If you do need a new ECM, and replace it with a Harley (OEM) then you will want to take it to the dealership to get matched to your bike.
@@DKCustomProducts I was send a tune in an email, could it had a virus and messed up ECM ?
@@Richard5873 Possibly, but very unlikely. Have you flashed the original tune back into the ECM and tried that?
@@DKCustomProducts Yes I have went back and forth maybe 4 or 5 times lost track how many times, was thinking something was wrong with the map I was sent by Harley-Davidson dealership.
I’ve got a 06 Electra glide and the ecm is only letting one cylinder fire. It has 39k and I live Harley but this is absolutely bullshit.i already changed coil plugs and wires.
If you cannot find what is wrong with it via an error code (DTC) you may have to take it to a shop.
Here is a video about how to read DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Code), you may find this video useful/helpful- th-cam.com/video/1t-uHPQs0U8/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for commenting! MB
Are ECMs on carb models?...i have a 2004 Fatboy carbed
Yes, your 2004 carbed Fat Boy has an ECM, BUT, it does not have all the features of the ECM in this video. The ECM in this video adjusts the air fuel ratio and the timing based on the variables outlined. On your carbed bike it only adjusts the timing...all AFR adjustments must be done manually on the carburetor.
@@DKCustomProducts I have a problem...no spark from rear cylinder, i have new coil, new leads, new plugs....runs on 1, the front cylinder, the problem started and so i bought plugs, leds and new coil...checked code and says for P "no rsp"....any ideas...could it be wiring to coil ?
Can you email copy of that ecm document?
There is no one document. See if you can get your hands on the documentation that comes with the now-banned HD Race Tuner.
Just for grins and giggles 1 should scan your ECM and BCM for stored codes. You may be surprised to see some codes even tho the check engine light is not yet on. One more bit of mis information, you do not erase codes by disconnecting the battery or pulling the main fuse. Codes are stored in the memory partition of the ECM and need to be cleared and problems fixed or you will end up with a check engine light and a poor running engine.
Garbage in garbage out just like your home computers
Thank you Jack, great advice as always. Appreciate it!
The EPA says damaging the engine is totally acceptable.. 🤦🏻♂️
While I'm no fan of most of what the EPA does, they only set standards for results. How a company (HD for example) chooses to achieve those results in on the company, not the EPA.
My bike has no o2 sensor
Yeah, if it is pre 2007, no o2 sensors.
@@DKCustomProducts can u help me?my sporster 883 map sensor wiring no light when i test with my test pen light ...is it ecm problem?
@@mapreymaprey1008 If you had not already changed the MAP sensor, I would suspect that it was gummed up from all the hot, oily air being fed into the intake. You put a new sensor in...so I would look carefully at the wiring for any breaks & clean the connector and see if that works. My next step would be to look at the actual new sensor being defective out of the box....see if you can find another one that you know is working, and test it out on your bike.
After that, I would see if I could get it on a digital tech to see what it says.
Oh, before that, have you checked for error codes?
@@DKCustomProducts yup i already change the new 1 still the same..but when i cek the 4 pin wiring the colour red n white is no light ..when i put me tester pen check light..
@@mapreymaprey1008 Is it possible the new one is defective. Can you try your friends sensor to see?