Even as a regular wheel builder myself it's good to see how others do it, all too easy to pick up bad habits along the way, thanks Ryan for sharing, much appreciated 👍
Throughout this series of videos you have made wheel building something to look forward to and enjoy rather than fear and worry about - thank you. Thanks also for making Elvis more prominent 👍🙂
My pleasure Martin! Thanks for your continued Patreon membership too; I'm trying to figure out how to get an updated list of all Patron's as an end screen on every existing video...I swear there must be a way but my GoogleFu is proving insufficient! If *anyone* can help with an answer to the above then huge props!
Hoorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhh! Brilliant. I could watch all day - better than the potters wheel. I found tensioning my wheels one of the most therapeutic activities I've ever done. Brilliant demonstration, brilliantly explained. Thank you Ryan.
@RyanBuildsWheels , Thank you for your response, Ryan . Well, I got myself almost a year ago wheelset with dt swiss bladed spokes, and after watching some short videos, I decided to True the wheels. At first, every time I tried to tighten the spokes, I actually bented not only the nippels but the head of the spoke as well. Then, I decided to remove the tubeless tape and tighten the spokes from inside the rim. I should have used oil at the beginning, I guess. Now I ended up with rounded nipples, bented spokes, and the bearings need to be replaced since I noticed that they spin not so much freely on my Wheel Truing Stand. I'm also not sure how exactly is needed for the spokes to be positioned in order not to lose the aero benefits.
Thanks for doing these videos Ryan, you’re awesome! I’ve been wheelbuilding as a hobby for 20 years, and I still have things to learn, and ways I can improve my skills. Watching how others are building, and the tools they’re using, always gives me new insights into our craft, so thanks again for doing these videos. P.S. You’re not only doing great things for wheelbuilding, you’re also a dab hand at promoting tea breaks!😂❤
I like to think I promote the best things in life :-D! THanks very much Jeff! I'm *very* much on a mission to try bringing about the handbuilt wheel revolution for all!
I always get confused using the dish tool and find your tip using the stand very handy. But still I got confused. At 19:18 you say that if the gap is on the left the rim has to move to the right. But instead of measuring the gap at the hub as with the dish tool, the wheel now has to move to the side of the gap, namely to the left? Doing so by tensioning and the spokes on the left side , the rim will go to the left and close the gap
Gap at the hub with a dishing tool: move the rim in the opposite direction (i.e. gap on the left, move rim to right) Gap at the rim with a caliper arm on your stand: move towards the gap (i.e. gap on the left arm, move to the left). I think at 1918 this is an error on my part still talking about dish using a dishing tool; just something we didn't pick up during the edit.
Hey brother. Am soon to build my first wheels from scratch. Your videos (and Musson's book (**)) have been a great resource to help me understand the concepts. I found your channel a few days ago and was alarmed you'd stopped this series (Ep #3 was 10 months ago :0). Happy now, and enjoyed ep #4. ** also have enjoyed reading several forums with builders passionately discussing ;), inboard/outboard wrt leading/trailing spokes. #bikenerdz
Right on and stoked to have you on board Bart! I'm glad to have found the time to get the series started again and the final chapter online within the next month! All the work I've done having made the blog post below has allowed the time and space to start working on the YT Channel again and it's so nice to be flexing those creative muscles. www.ryanbuildswheels.co.uk/exciting-times-ahead-why-are-my-order-books-closed/ Feel free to send me those forums; people's 'passion' for that old argument may provide some entertainment ;-)!
There's a technique that I employ for some builds that start with radial: I'll have to make a video about this at some point but if starting radial works then that's absolutely a legit way of building too 😊
Really good series. Thanks! Can I ask, when you're initially driving the nipples in, do you just keep going until the depth notch on the bit pushes the bit away from the nipple? When I do this with a manual driver, as the end loses contact it just slides around in the hole haphazardly and I feel like I'm damaging the driver and nipple. I'm guessing that with the extra speed of the drill that it loses contact faster? Hope that made sense
Welcome on board Steve! The depth finder on my bits are a tad deeper than some handheld devices and so the depth finder kinda keeps the whole thing in place until I come off the trigger. Otherwise, nope, that's not an issue I ever experience although if you're not careful and go for too shallow a depth setting then it's definitely easy to mar and scrape nipples as you work up to too high tension too quickly.
Glad it was helpful! My aim is that others most certainly CAN start the process of perfection should they so wish to, but - hey - after 15+ years I'm going to say that I'm pretty good at it ;-)!
Ryan - Thank you so much for the videos, I successfully laced my first set of 2-cross disc wheels! Now that I'm ready to start adding tension I have a question about the boiled linseed oil. Am I going to run into trouble if I don't have time to completely true and bring the wheel up to final tension in one session? What if I get interrupted and can't get back to it for 24 or even more hours? Will the linseed oil be dry? If I start turning things, is it going to defeat the purpose of the linseed oil? Is there an estimated working time?
My pleasure Aaron and stoked that it's helped! Whilst it would be ideal to polish off your wheels before the BLO dries it's pretty slow drying tbh and even if it does dry this isn't going to cause you any problems if you turn your nipples again; one of the joys of the substance and you could always consider topping up a little if you felt it was neccesary but I wouldn't worry about it; a quick google suggets BLO will take 24-72 hours to dry when used on wood; you've likely got longer :-).
Hi Ryan, question on working tension. I'm building up a used rear disc brake CX wheel from one of our bikes at home. This is the first time I've built a wheel. I've purchased new spokes and nipples (steel & brass). I've tried tensioning it several times and run into large tension differences after radial truing. So I've been going back to the start and restarting the process. If use the 'x' number of turns rule after using the nipple driver, I get some spokes that are quite tight and some that are still loose. So I'm wondering, is the goal to have the exact same starting length for the spokes by doing the 'x' number of turns OR would having a more precise starting spoke tension better? I was thinking of setting the drive side spokes to a value of 2 on the Park Tool TM-1. Then the non-drive side to 1. My reasoning is spoke calculations shows the Non-drive side is 56% of the drive side. Is this a valid approach? Thanks for the video.
Hey! My initial suggestion to drive them all down to the same depth; check if that tight/loose has any pattern; perhaps with inbound spokes being the loose ones (this is quite common). I'd then move onto truing as per the videos and not go in with the tensio yet; I will say that on the TM-1 readings of 1 or 2 are exceptionally low and not worth taking; I'd wait until the wheel has at LEAST 50% (if not more) of it's target tension to begin that process.
Hey dude , great video. What’s your opinion on tension drop when the tyre is fitted and pumped up? Do manufactures recommended the max tension taking into consideration the tension drop after the tyre is fitted? Thank you sir.
This is often down to the manufactuer but - for example - DT Swiss have gone on the record to say that their reccomended tensions are for pre-inflation and that one shouldn't increase tension on their rims once you've fitted tyres in case lower pressures or a puncutre then brings you above the reccomended tension. There are a few too many variables for me to give absolute guidance at this point so I'm just going to say it kinda depends on the tyre/rim/pressure/spoke count/total system load combination! For example; my own DT rims is just leave em...I'm about to build a pair of @VelocityUSA Blunt SS (a SUPERB rim...and who doesn't love a good blunt... ;-)!) for my own steed...they're pretty flyweight rims and so can drop more in tension than heavier options might; therefore I'll be checking spoke tenion once I've got the rubber on and bringing it back up if I deem it too low; what's too low? Let's say 100kgf on your high side spokes.
Hi! I missed the info about how to know if the spokes are tensioned to a proper tension. I mean how do you know they are not too little tensioned or too much? Don't you need to check that with a spoke tool?
You gottit! If your wheel starts by feeling WAY to tight and it's hard to turn or true then you're beyond tension already; I wanted to keep this video simple so I hope the concept of 'working' and final tension proves easy to grasp :-).
Why does noone make an affordable tension metre calibration tool? A square frame with a crane scale and a way to insert spokes and stretch them to a known tension. It’s so simple in theory and plenty of folks with tools and skill have made them but not everyone has that equipment and capability. It shouldn’t cost more than $150 yet those that are out there sell for heeeeaps more.
Loads of people make their own and - actually - mine is simply a big plate of (25mm thick!) machine aluminium that we bolted some neccesary bits to after whizzing it through the mill in the necessary ways! I might have to do a video about making the sort of calibrator you mention in the future; 8020 aluminium extrusion is the stuff a lot of people use.
Even as a regular wheel builder myself it's good to see how others do it, all too easy to pick up bad habits along the way, thanks Ryan for sharing, much appreciated 👍
Very true Eric! I love comparing notes with others :-).
Throughout this series of videos you have made wheel building something to look forward to and enjoy rather than fear and worry about - thank you. Thanks also for making Elvis more prominent 👍🙂
My pleasure Martin! Thanks for your continued Patreon membership too; I'm trying to figure out how to get an updated list of all Patron's as an end screen on every existing video...I swear there must be a way but my GoogleFu is proving insufficient!
If *anyone* can help with an answer to the above then huge props!
Hoorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhh! Brilliant. I could watch all day - better than the potters wheel. I found tensioning my wheels one of the most therapeutic activities I've ever done.
Brilliant demonstration, brilliantly explained. Thank you Ryan.
I love it! Wheelbuilding for me is hugely calming and I experience a sense of Flow often :-)
I would be very grateful for a video about bladed spokes. I'm so struggling with my wheels. I'm also a very beginner on this subject.
What about them would you like to know?
@RyanBuildsWheels , Thank you for your response, Ryan . Well, I got myself almost a year ago wheelset with dt swiss bladed spokes, and after watching some short videos, I decided to True the wheels. At first, every time I tried to tighten the spokes, I actually bented not only the nippels but the head of the spoke as well. Then, I decided to remove the tubeless tape and tighten the spokes from inside the rim. I should have used oil at the beginning, I guess. Now I ended up with rounded nipples, bented spokes, and the bearings need to be replaced since I noticed that they spin not so much freely on my Wheel Truing Stand. I'm also not sure how exactly is needed for the spokes to be positioned in order not to lose the aero benefits.
Thanks for doing these videos Ryan, you’re awesome! I’ve been wheelbuilding as a hobby for 20 years, and I still have things to learn, and ways I can improve my skills. Watching how others are building, and the tools they’re using, always gives me new insights into our craft, so thanks again for doing these videos.
P.S. You’re not only doing great things for wheelbuilding, you’re also a dab hand at promoting tea breaks!😂❤
I like to think I promote the best things in life :-D! THanks very much Jeff!
I'm *very* much on a mission to try bringing about the handbuilt wheel revolution for all!
Can't wait for the next episodes 🙃
Nor I! It's all shot so just needs editing and then the series will be complete!
I always get confused using the dish tool and find your tip using the stand very handy. But still I got confused. At 19:18 you say that if the gap is on the left the rim has to move to the right. But instead of measuring the gap at the hub as with the dish tool, the wheel now has to move to the side of the gap, namely to the left? Doing so by tensioning and the spokes on the left side , the rim will go to the left and close the gap
Gap at the hub with a dishing tool: move the rim in the opposite direction (i.e. gap on the left, move rim to right)
Gap at the rim with a caliper arm on your stand: move towards the gap (i.e. gap on the left arm, move to the left).
I think at 1918 this is an error on my part still talking about dish using a dishing tool; just something we didn't pick up during the edit.
Hey brother. Am soon to build my first wheels from scratch. Your videos (and Musson's book (**)) have been a great resource to help me understand the concepts. I found your channel a few days ago and was alarmed you'd stopped this series (Ep #3 was 10 months ago :0). Happy now, and enjoyed ep #4.
** also have enjoyed reading several forums with builders passionately discussing ;), inboard/outboard wrt leading/trailing spokes. #bikenerdz
Right on and stoked to have you on board Bart! I'm glad to have found the time to get the series started again and the final chapter online within the next month! All the work I've done having made the blog post below has allowed the time and space to start working on the YT Channel again and it's so nice to be flexing those creative muscles.
www.ryanbuildswheels.co.uk/exciting-times-ahead-why-are-my-order-books-closed/
Feel free to send me those forums; people's 'passion' for that old argument may provide some entertainment ;-)!
Thanks Ryan another really great video much appreciated.
My pleasure!
Just in time. I just ordered hubs for my Reserve DH rims!
Nice!! Have a great time building!
Next video in another 8 months?😂 @@RyanBuildsWheels
Thanks a lot, that was very interesting. Looking forward to the tensioning video. Cheers.
Coming soon!
Definitely not going to build myself - I'll give it to my local builder. But for general education and understanding your videos are invaluable 🙏🏻
Great to hear! Who's your go to spokesperson?!
i find it easyer to start with radial trueness, it's less of a hassle then to tention up lateral
There's a technique that I employ for some builds that start with radial: I'll have to make a video about this at some point but if starting radial works then that's absolutely a legit way of building too 😊
Really good series. Thanks! Can I ask, when you're initially driving the nipples in, do you just keep going until the depth notch on the bit pushes the bit away from the nipple? When I do this with a manual driver, as the end loses contact it just slides around in the hole haphazardly and I feel like I'm damaging the driver and nipple. I'm guessing that with the extra speed of the drill that it loses contact faster? Hope that made sense
Welcome on board Steve!
The depth finder on my bits are a tad deeper than some handheld devices and so the depth finder kinda keeps the whole thing in place until I come off the trigger. Otherwise, nope, that's not an issue I ever experience although if you're not careful and go for too shallow a depth setting then it's definitely easy to mar and scrape nipples as you work up to too high tension too quickly.
Super useful and ounchy video - thanks! Full of really good tips and tricks. You've spent years perfecting wheelbuilding so we don't have to (?)
Glad it was helpful! My aim is that others most certainly CAN start the process of perfection should they so wish to, but - hey - after 15+ years I'm going to say that I'm pretty good at it ;-)!
Ryan - Thank you so much for the videos, I successfully laced my first set of 2-cross disc wheels! Now that I'm ready to start adding tension I have a question about the boiled linseed oil. Am I going to run into trouble if I don't have time to completely true and bring the wheel up to final tension in one session? What if I get interrupted and can't get back to it for 24 or even more hours? Will the linseed oil be dry? If I start turning things, is it going to defeat the purpose of the linseed oil? Is there an estimated working time?
My pleasure Aaron and stoked that it's helped!
Whilst it would be ideal to polish off your wheels before the BLO dries it's pretty slow drying tbh and even if it does dry this isn't going to cause you any problems if you turn your nipples again; one of the joys of the substance and you could always consider topping up a little if you felt it was neccesary but I wouldn't worry about it; a quick google suggets BLO will take 24-72 hours to dry when used on wood; you've likely got longer :-).
Hi Ryan, question on working tension. I'm building up a used rear disc brake CX wheel from one of our bikes at home. This is the first time I've built a wheel. I've purchased new spokes and nipples (steel & brass). I've tried tensioning it several times and run into large tension differences after radial truing. So I've been going back to the start and restarting the process. If use the 'x' number of turns rule after using the nipple driver, I get some spokes that are quite tight and some that are still loose. So I'm wondering, is the goal to have the exact same starting length for the spokes by doing the 'x' number of turns OR would having a more precise starting spoke tension better? I was thinking of setting the drive side spokes to a value of 2 on the Park Tool TM-1. Then the non-drive side to 1. My reasoning is spoke calculations shows the Non-drive side is 56% of the drive side. Is this a valid approach? Thanks for the video.
Hey! My initial suggestion to drive them all down to the same depth; check if that tight/loose has any pattern; perhaps with inbound spokes being the loose ones (this is quite common). I'd then move onto truing as per the videos and not go in with the tensio yet; I will say that on the TM-1 readings of 1 or 2 are exceptionally low and not worth taking; I'd wait until the wheel has at LEAST 50% (if not more) of it's target tension to begin that process.
Hey dude , great video. What’s your opinion on tension drop when the tyre is fitted and pumped up? Do manufactures recommended the max tension taking into consideration the tension drop after the tyre is fitted? Thank you sir.
This is often down to the manufactuer but - for example - DT Swiss have gone on the record to say that their reccomended tensions are for pre-inflation and that one shouldn't increase tension on their rims once you've fitted tyres in case lower pressures or a puncutre then brings you above the reccomended tension.
There are a few too many variables for me to give absolute guidance at this point so I'm just going to say it kinda depends on the tyre/rim/pressure/spoke count/total system load combination! For example; my own DT rims is just leave em...I'm about to build a pair of @VelocityUSA Blunt SS (a SUPERB rim...and who doesn't love a good blunt... ;-)!) for my own steed...they're pretty flyweight rims and so can drop more in tension than heavier options might; therefore I'll be checking spoke tenion once I've got the rubber on and bringing it back up if I deem it too low; what's too low? Let's say 100kgf on your high side spokes.
Is struggles so hard with my first wheels trying to remember which direction to turn!
I often draw a diagram and for students and put it on the truing stand with a magnet :-).
@@RyanBuildsWheels I wish I had that when I started haha
Hi! I missed the info about how to know if the spokes are tensioned to a proper tension. I mean how do you know they are not too little tensioned or too much? Don't you need to check that with a spoke tool?
Aaa! It's in the next video! Ok :)
You gottit! If your wheel starts by feeling WAY to tight and it's hard to turn or true then you're beyond tension already; I wanted to keep this video simple so I hope the concept of 'working' and final tension proves easy to grasp :-).
What about #5 finishing off a wheel.
It's coming; be patient ;-)
Why does noone make an affordable tension metre calibration tool? A square frame with a crane scale and a way to insert spokes and stretch them to a known tension. It’s so simple in theory and plenty of folks with tools and skill have made them but not everyone has that equipment and capability. It shouldn’t cost more than $150 yet those that are out there sell for heeeeaps more.
Loads of people make their own and - actually - mine is simply a big plate of (25mm thick!) machine aluminium that we bolted some neccesary bits to after whizzing it through the mill in the necessary ways! I might have to do a video about making the sort of calibrator you mention in the future; 8020 aluminium extrusion is the stuff a lot of people use.
@@RyanBuildsWheels if you can make ‘em for GBP150 you’ll sell a metric sh*t ton. Probably an imperial sh*t ton too!