i wish i'd discovered your website sooner - just had a set of hunt wheels delivered and im sending them back. Shocking quality. Once i have my refund i'll be pinging you for a set :)
Upside down you’re turning me, you’re giving love instinctively. I’m guessing one of the most feared parts of wheel building for the novice (like me) and possibly one of the hardest things to describe on video - especially upside down and back to front! Well done, as Joe Talbot might say 👏. I think you should be really happy with this one 👍. I have done it in the past and it is ‘relatively’ straightforward if you are methodical with attention to detail but if I’d seen this video first I’d have felt a lot better informed and confident. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and enthusiasm
LOL! A bit of Diana Ross there ;-) " 'Round and 'round". I do try. Keeping it methodical is absolutely the way forward. Cross referencing an existing wheel with the same spoke pattern is also a SUPER useful tip.
Ryan I was looking all over for a video on 2 spoke cross lace .(seen one or two other videos put they don't explain it like you do) Read Sheldon's description but I just could not get my Head around the over and under in the writing if you will . Without your video I don't think I would able to do it. NICE VIDEO and you explain really well Great job .Thanks for doing such a Great video. Nice stand to hold the wheel!! Acer
Fantastic news Peter! So glad it helped! For those that didn't know the above lacing instructions can be followed regardless of how many crosses you've got in the wheel; 1, 2, 3, 4X are all possible; you just change the number of sections and interlace on the final cross. Example; 3X goes over/over/under...4x over/over/over/under. Eception: 1x: NO interlacing!
Thanks Ryan. I recently made my first order from you. Even though I have years of wheel building experience I have enjoyed and learned a few things from you keep up the good work.
Hi Ryan thanks for this video. Hopefully you could expand a but on why, for a disk brake wheel, the lacing in different in a future video. Thanks again.
I most certainly will! All will be revealed ;-). @Pverdone has a page up at ( www.peterverdone.com/archive/bikewheels.htm ) that is a good place to start as to understanding this. I'll elaborate more on my way of doing things in the future.
@@RyanBuildsWheelsperusing the local bike store I observed asymmetric and symmetric builds for rear disc wheels, doesnt appear to be a set standard might be down to what ever robot is availible
really good video, Ive built quite a few wheelsets but really like the lacing order you use for the disc brake rear, very little spoke gymnastics required, also the valve hole confirmation is a nice trick allowing fine tuning of the key spoke before committing. Great stuff looking forward to future vids
Hi Ryan, if you don't mind sharing in the next video, 1-would you mind explaining when to take measure of spoke tension (before or after the tubeless tire goes on, i notice this makes a decrease of about 10%)? 2-and secondly, at the same time when inflating the tire, i also notice that (despite stressing multiple times) the wheel goes about half a mm to the drive side on a rear wheel (or brake side in the front), should i compensate for this deviation? Many thanks, great video as usual 👌
Hey Phil! Already got that listed as a subject for a future video don't you worry! It's not as simple an answer as you might think but for a quick reply at the very least I do tend to re-dish a wheel by adding tension to the relevant side post tubeless setup. Depending on how great the tension drop is and *Depeneing on rim manufacturers suggestion* I'll often re-tension too. The why's and wherefores to all of this need ironing out but I'll have an answer in video form for you in the future you can be sure :-)> BIG UP the support for the video and channel; really appreciate it!
I would love to have a tutorial on mix crossing wheels. I did lace 2 but the process was not straightforward , I need to do a 3x that undun one side to 2x.
Really great video and series Ryan! I plan on tackling my first disc unicycle wheel build soon. Just curious on the different lacing needed for disc hubs - as on a visual check I don’t think my Schlumpf hubs have this spoke pattern done for them - hard to tell I guess but wondering if this approach is mostly important for bicycles, and not us single-wheelers ⚙️🙏 Cheers, Felix
The Schlumpf hubs had some particular needs that I can't quite remember right now but rest assured whatever pattern I've used is is more than capable and correct for one reason or another ;-). See my comments on Sym Vs Asym lacing in the rest of these comments too.
Good video. It's always interesting to see a different way of doing things and I picked up a couple of tricks that I'm going to try on my next build. Btw, the part near the beginning of the video where you show the Valve Hole Vision method for orienting the hub correctly is little difficult to see. The black rim on the black background with the black spokes makes it hard to pick up the details of what goes where. I re-watched that part a few times and got it figured out (I think). This was the only part of the video that a little unclear, to me at any rate. Btw, I'm enjoying this series. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos.
Thanks! Glad to help. Yes, agree on the Valve hole Vision segment; we weren't able to get it much brighter in post I'm afraid; It's a learning curve. I will make time shortly to try creating a clearer video, perhaps with diagrams as to how that works but glad you got it figured out in the end. *bosh!*
Me personally *yes*! I'm going to go into detail on this in the future in a video about symmetrical vs asymmetrical lacing patterns exploring how and why different manufacturers and builders recommend one way over the other. *But*, for ease of always having the same starting point in this video and for myself when building (an inbound drive side spoke that will end up as a leading spoke). Theoretically lacing a front disk wheel symmetrically with all leading spokes being OUTBOUND (so, the drive side in reverse to what I've shown here) is 'better', but long story short - after over a decade of building and having considered this with care and experience - it makes zero difference. I have seen wheels of all stripes - disk, rim brake, front, rear, etc - laced with both sym and asym patterns and not seen ANY which way lead to failures more so than any other. Quality components, good wheel design and spoke choice, and a high + even tension on all spokes coupled with good tolerances and practices trumps theory TIME AND TIME AGAIN. All intensely true. ATMO (in the words of the one and only Richard Sachs).
Great video! thanks Ryan! Quick question for you...is asymmetrical lacing imperative when lacing a disk brake rim? majority of wheels I've dealt with so far they all had been built symmetrical even if they where built with disk brake rims. TIA
Hi ryan, I am just looking at the sapim race spokes you sell - can I just confirm if these do come threaded? I notice the image shows a threaded section but I am a little unsure. Also I am having a little trouble determining the nipple length I need - is there an optimal length?
They do indeed come threaded 👍🏻😀! Nipple length (which, remember, does not affect spoke length), can be dependent on your rim and how thick it’s spoke bed is and / or if you’re using washers. Most alloy rims without eyelets will be fine with 12mm, if you’re using washers or eyeleted rims 14mm may be required to clear the rim when truing and not scratch it with your spoke key. Some carbon rims have a very thick spike bed. Nipples which are ‘too long’ will rarely be a problem. A 14mm nipple should suit almost every use case.
The videos on your channel are very interesting. Where can I buy the rubber mat that is installed on your work table? It seems strong and solid. What is the brand of the tapis or the reference? Thank you so much Greetings from France
The black stuff?! It's the same as I use for my workshop flooring actually! If you google something like "Rubber Garage Flooring Dot Penny Pattern Linear Metre" you'll find it! I've been using it on all my work surfaces for a while now and it also works to really tie the aesthetic of the shop together.
hi Ryan Thank you for this instruction. You start the first spoke to the left of the rim hole. However, there are also rims with the first spoke hole on the right side. You provided no further explanation on this. Perhaps this will happen and I am too early with my question. My question is therefore; With a right-hand rim I start at the second spoke hole to the left of the valve. Or do I start on the right? If I start on the right, the direction of rotation for the spokes must also be mirror image of the left, so an important question to which you certainly know the answer. Kind regards Ronald
*A good point* Details below. So I've kept this video simple and it should be noted that these instructions assume the user is building a *MODERN DAY QUALITY ALLOY OR CARBON* rim option. The 'standard' drilling for this that the industry has arrived at is that your right or drive side spoke holes in the rim are to to left of the valve hole. *SOME* modern day rims but lots of older (mostly French I find) vintage rims so indeed have this staggered pattern reversed and it's important that you stick to the rims drilling to avoid putting too much stress on spokes; should that be the case you'll need to 'reverse' these instruction and start to the right of the valve hole instead.
Ryan, I'm trying to make sense of the difference in lacing between rim braked and disc braked wheels. I don't see the point. In the end, there will be an equal number of spokes going in either directions on each flanges of the hub. Is there something I am missing? Why is it necessary to have all inbound spokes going in the same direction? Is it that having one side inbound and the other side outbound going the same direction will induce some "torque-steer"?
**This Should Really be a Whole Video!** BONUS CONTENT INCOMING!** It's because outbound spokes - in theory, the actual differnce is likely miniscule - have a larger bracing angle; they are a flange's width more outboard than the inbound spokes and therefore should prove more resitant to torque...or SUMMANT! ;-) @PeterVerdone has a post about this from some time ago: www.peterverdone.com/archive/bikewheels.htm Shimano and other's reccomendations try to put the most spokes on each flange that will be experiencing load from braking or driving forces outbound...so it's worth noting that theoritically a disk brake front wheel should have ALL outboard spokes as leading spokes: I however teach it this way so as the first step's remain the same for all builds and not to confuse things too much. INRESESTINGLY....some people - touring cyclists especially, also pertinent to MTB - suggest that rear drive be laced with outbound spokes leading to help avoid damage to spokes should chain suck occur; this allows the chain to 'ramp up' the spokes rathe than get sucked into the mash em to pieces. But you know the funny thing?!? I've seen wheels built **EVERY WHICH WAY** in terms of asym vs sym, outbound vs inbound direction, front vs rear, rim vs disk etc...from SO many different sources; factory (including for example, HopeTech) , bike shop, other builders, hobbyists, high end, low end...etc etc..and in all this time never noted one pattern failing more than any others; if the wheel is well build with good and appropriate components and tolernace for tension balance on each flange then it just doesn't seem to matter ;-). I teach it 'theoretically correct' (aside from that pesky NDS front disk flange...which means I'm theoretically incorrect!) so as when it comes to flanges that experience a more direct load from braking or drive forces people can't accuse me of being a hack or sh** on someone's brand new wheels and make my customers feel back...but if you're building for yourself in anything but the most critical of builds where you've got to push every last bit of durability out of them I **JUST DON'T THINK IT MATTERS!!!** DWWFY. I've been working professionally for over a decade now, my wheels are awesome, none of them come back with spoke fatigue etc issues...I'm confident in the above; people can fight me if they like (and then they can read this post again because that's what I've got to say on the matter!) ;-).
@@RyanBuildsWheels Wow! What a comprehensive response. Ok I get it now. I did rewatch you video and realized you had said that it did not make much if any difference. I did also go and check my wheels (the ones I built and the ones I bought) and none had that nuance built in. Thanks for the reply and videos
I have a bent carbon rim (Reynolds 29er XC). It’s undamaged. No crash. No off road use. Can anything be done to true a carbon rim? It’s the rim itself and not a spoke issue. Thanks 😊
As in you can't remove the 'bend' by truing the wheel using spoke tension? Sounds like it's kaput tbh Lance! Without seeing the whel in perosn it's hard ot know what you mean I'm afraid.
They're originally a design by Johnny from the now closed Noble Wheels; some others may be available but - for reference - they're called a 'lacing stand' or 'wheel lacing jig'; a quick google might turn something up!
Because I'm an amateur videographer / content creator who is just starting out and learning as he goes is why ;-). I If you want more quality DIY content with silly mistakes that won't be made again heaven forbid you watch the interview with BSC Tools (in which you actually get a **DISCOUNT CODE!!!***) but have to put up with some clunky sound... Anyway, thanks for helping me plug that little bit of info...I look forward to seeing your first upload ;-).
i wish i'd discovered your website sooner - just had a set of hunt wheels delivered and im sending them back. Shocking quality.
Once i have my refund i'll be pinging you for a set :)
MUSIC to my ears Christopher and can't wait to hear from you!
Upside down you’re turning me, you’re giving love instinctively. I’m guessing one of the most feared parts of wheel building for the novice (like me) and possibly one of the hardest things to describe on video - especially upside down and back to front! Well done, as Joe Talbot might say 👏. I think you should be really happy with this one 👍. I have done it in the past and it is ‘relatively’ straightforward if you are methodical with attention to detail but if I’d seen this video first I’d have felt a lot better informed and confident. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and enthusiasm
LOL! A bit of Diana Ross there ;-) " 'Round and 'round". I do try.
Keeping it methodical is absolutely the way forward. Cross referencing an existing wheel with the same spoke pattern is also a SUPER useful tip.
Ryan I was looking all over for a video on 2 spoke cross lace .(seen one or two other videos put they don't explain it like you do) Read Sheldon's description but I just could not get my Head around the over and under in the writing if you will . Without your video I don't think I would able to do it. NICE VIDEO and you explain really well Great job .Thanks for doing such a Great video. Nice stand to hold the wheel!! Acer
Fantastic news Peter! So glad it helped! For those that didn't know the above lacing instructions can be followed regardless of how many crosses you've got in the wheel; 1, 2, 3, 4X are all possible; you just change the number of sections and interlace on the final cross.
Example; 3X goes over/over/under...4x over/over/over/under.
Eception: 1x: NO interlacing!
Absolutely clear explanation, even to me, I.m 62y.o and English is my second language 👍✌️
Thanks Pete!
Thanks Ryan. I recently made my first order from you. Even though I have years of wheel building experience I have enjoyed and learned a few things from you keep up the good work.
Music to my ears! If I can educate both beginners and professionals / experienced folk alike then I consider my mission statement fulfilled!
Hi Ryan thanks for this video. Hopefully you could expand a but on why, for a disk brake wheel, the lacing in different in a future video. Thanks again.
I most certainly will! All will be revealed ;-).
@Pverdone has a page up at ( www.peterverdone.com/archive/bikewheels.htm ) that is a good place to start as to understanding this. I'll elaborate more on my way of doing things in the future.
@@RyanBuildsWheelsperusing the local bike store I observed asymmetric and symmetric builds for rear disc wheels, doesnt appear to be a set standard might be down to what ever robot is availible
Brilliant, utterly brilliant. Regards Tony Sadler South Wales uk
Thanks Tony, and continued thanks for your support on Patreon too :-).
really good video, Ive built quite a few wheelsets but really like the lacing order you use for the disc brake rear, very little spoke gymnastics required, also the valve hole confirmation is a nice trick allowing fine tuning of the key spoke before committing. Great stuff looking forward to future vids
Appreciate it! The final two videos in this series are underway!
Another great video. Keep up the good work. Thank you
Thanks Simon! Already got time put aside for the next video in this series; looking forward to getting it out there!
Hi Ryan, if you don't mind sharing in the next video,
1-would you mind explaining when to take measure of spoke tension (before or after the tubeless tire goes on, i notice this makes a decrease of about 10%)?
2-and secondly, at the same time when inflating the tire, i also notice that (despite stressing multiple times) the wheel goes about half a mm to the drive side on a rear wheel (or brake side in the front),
should i compensate for this deviation?
Many thanks, great video as usual 👌
Hey Phil! Already got that listed as a subject for a future video don't you worry! It's not as simple an answer as you might think but for a quick reply at the very least I do tend to re-dish a wheel by adding tension to the relevant side post tubeless setup. Depending on how great the tension drop is and *Depeneing on rim manufacturers suggestion* I'll often re-tension too. The why's and wherefores to all of this need ironing out but I'll have an answer in video form for you in the future you can be sure :-)>
BIG UP the support for the video and channel; really appreciate it!
I would love to have a tutorial on mix crossing wheels. I did lace 2 but the process was not straightforward , I need to do a 3x that undun one side to 2x.
Wil bear it in mind!
Really great video and series Ryan! I plan on tackling my first disc unicycle wheel build soon. Just curious on the different lacing needed for disc hubs - as on a visual check I don’t think my Schlumpf hubs have this spoke pattern done for them - hard to tell I guess but wondering if this approach is mostly important for bicycles, and not us single-wheelers ⚙️🙏 Cheers, Felix
The Schlumpf hubs had some particular needs that I can't quite remember right now but rest assured whatever pattern I've used is is more than capable and correct for one reason or another ;-). See my comments on Sym Vs Asym lacing in the rest of these comments too.
Have a great holiday. Catch you on your return.
Yes pease!
Good video. It's always interesting to see a different way of doing things and I picked up a couple of tricks that I'm going to try on my next build.
Btw, the part near the beginning of the video where you show the Valve Hole Vision method for orienting the hub correctly is little difficult to see. The black rim on the black background with the black spokes makes it hard to pick up the details of what goes where. I re-watched that part a few times and got it figured out (I think). This was the only part of the video that a little unclear, to me at any rate.
Btw, I'm enjoying this series. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos.
Thanks! Glad to help.
Yes, agree on the Valve hole Vision segment; we weren't able to get it much brighter in post I'm afraid; It's a learning curve. I will make time shortly to try creating a clearer video, perhaps with diagrams as to how that works but glad you got it figured out in the end. *bosh!*
Pt 4? :( amazing video so happy I found this!
It's coming...but I've been awaiting final edits from the person who shot these for some time now... I'll go prod em ;-).
Great video thank you. For disc wheels, do you build the front wheel the same way?
Me personally *yes*!
I'm going to go into detail on this in the future in a video about symmetrical vs asymmetrical lacing patterns exploring how and why different manufacturers and builders recommend one way over the other. *But*, for ease of always having the same starting point in this video and for myself when building (an inbound drive side spoke that will end up as a leading spoke).
Theoretically lacing a front disk wheel symmetrically with all leading spokes being OUTBOUND (so, the drive side in reverse to what I've shown here) is 'better', but long story short - after over a decade of building and having considered this with care and experience - it makes zero difference. I have seen wheels of all stripes - disk, rim brake, front, rear, etc - laced with both sym and asym patterns and not seen ANY which way lead to failures more so than any other. Quality components, good wheel design and spoke choice, and a high + even tension on all spokes coupled with good tolerances and practices trumps theory TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
All intensely true. ATMO (in the words of the one and only Richard Sachs).
Great video! thanks Ryan! Quick question for you...is asymmetrical lacing imperative when lacing a disk brake rim? majority of wheels I've dealt with so far they all had been built symmetrical even if they where built with disk brake rims. TIA
Thanks so much for awaiting reply @Jonathanderosa8143! See my reply to @lilianaubert2906 in the rest of the comments section for a full answer!
Hi ryan, I am just looking at the sapim race spokes you sell - can I just confirm if these do come threaded? I notice the image shows a threaded section but I am a little unsure. Also I am having a little trouble determining the nipple length I need - is there an optimal length?
They do indeed come threaded 👍🏻😀!
Nipple length (which, remember, does not affect spoke length), can be dependent on your rim and how thick it’s spoke bed is and / or if you’re using washers.
Most alloy rims without eyelets will be fine with 12mm, if you’re using washers or eyeleted rims 14mm may be required to clear the rim when truing and not scratch it with your spoke key. Some carbon rims have a very thick spike bed.
Nipples which are ‘too long’ will rarely be a problem. A 14mm nipple should suit almost every use case.
@@RyanBuildsWheels thank you very much!
The videos on your channel are very interesting.
Where can I buy the rubber mat that is installed on your work table?
It seems strong and solid. What is the brand of the tapis or the reference?
Thank you so much
Greetings from France
The black stuff?! It's the same as I use for my workshop flooring actually! If you google something like "Rubber Garage Flooring Dot Penny Pattern Linear Metre" you'll find it!
I've been using it on all my work surfaces for a while now and it also works to really tie the aesthetic of the shop together.
@@RyanBuildsWheels Thank you very much for the information. It has been a great help
hi Ryan Thank you for this instruction. You start the first spoke to the left of the rim hole. However, there are also rims with the first spoke hole on the right side. You provided no further explanation on this. Perhaps this will happen and I am too early with my question. My question is therefore; With a right-hand rim I start at the second spoke hole to the left of the valve. Or do I start on the right? If I start on the right, the direction of rotation for the spokes must also be mirror image of the left, so an important question to which you certainly know the answer. Kind regards Ronald
*A good point* Details below.
So I've kept this video simple and it should be noted that these instructions assume the user is building a *MODERN DAY QUALITY ALLOY OR CARBON* rim option. The 'standard' drilling for this that the industry has arrived at is that your right or drive side spoke holes in the rim are to to left of the valve hole.
*SOME* modern day rims but lots of older (mostly French I find) vintage rims so indeed have this staggered pattern reversed and it's important that you stick to the rims drilling to avoid putting too much stress on spokes; should that be the case you'll need to 'reverse' these instruction and start to the right of the valve hole instead.
Ryan, I'm trying to make sense of the difference in lacing between rim braked and disc braked wheels. I don't see the point. In the end, there will be an equal number of spokes going in either directions on each flanges of the hub. Is there something I am missing? Why is it necessary to have all inbound spokes going in the same direction? Is it that having one side inbound and the other side outbound going the same direction will induce some "torque-steer"?
**This Should Really be a Whole Video!** BONUS CONTENT INCOMING!**
It's because outbound spokes - in theory, the actual differnce is likely miniscule - have a larger bracing angle; they are a flange's width more outboard than the inbound spokes and therefore should prove more resitant to torque...or SUMMANT! ;-)
@PeterVerdone has a post about this from some time ago:
www.peterverdone.com/archive/bikewheels.htm
Shimano and other's reccomendations try to put the most spokes on each flange that will be experiencing load from braking or driving forces outbound...so it's worth noting that theoritically a disk brake front wheel should have ALL outboard spokes as leading spokes: I however teach it this way so as the first step's remain the same for all builds and not to confuse things too much.
INRESESTINGLY....some people - touring cyclists especially, also pertinent to MTB - suggest that rear drive be laced with outbound spokes leading to help avoid damage to spokes should chain suck occur; this allows the chain to 'ramp up' the spokes rathe than get sucked into the mash em to pieces.
But you know the funny thing?!? I've seen wheels built **EVERY WHICH WAY** in terms of asym vs sym, outbound vs inbound direction, front vs rear, rim vs disk etc...from SO many different sources; factory (including for example, HopeTech) , bike shop, other builders, hobbyists, high end, low end...etc etc..and in all this time never noted one pattern failing more than any others; if the wheel is well build with good and appropriate components and tolernace for tension balance on each flange then it just doesn't seem to matter ;-).
I teach it 'theoretically correct' (aside from that pesky NDS front disk flange...which means I'm theoretically incorrect!) so as when it comes to flanges that experience a more direct load from braking or drive forces people can't accuse me of being a hack or sh** on someone's brand new wheels and make my customers feel back...but if you're building for yourself in anything but the most critical of builds where you've got to push every last bit of durability out of them I **JUST DON'T THINK IT MATTERS!!!** DWWFY.
I've been working professionally for over a decade now, my wheels are awesome, none of them come back with spoke fatigue etc issues...I'm confident in the above; people can fight me if they like (and then they can read this post again because that's what I've got to say on the matter!) ;-).
@@RyanBuildsWheels Wow! What a comprehensive response. Ok I get it now. I did rewatch you video and realized you had said that it did not make much if any difference. I did also go and check my wheels (the ones I built and the ones I bought) and none had that nuance built in.
Thanks for the reply and videos
I have a bent carbon rim (Reynolds 29er XC). It’s undamaged. No crash. No off road use. Can anything be done to true a carbon rim? It’s the rim itself and not a spoke issue. Thanks 😊
As in you can't remove the 'bend' by truing the wheel using spoke tension? Sounds like it's kaput tbh Lance! Without seeing the whel in perosn it's hard ot know what you mean I'm afraid.
What’s that wheel holder called? Apart from wheel holder obviously.
@Lanceblack888: it's a Lacing Jig :-). This one came from Noble Tools (no longer in business, a real shame) but others are available
Where can I get 1 of those wheel stands?
They're originally a design by Johnny from the now closed Noble Wheels; some others may be available but - for reference - they're called a 'lacing stand' or 'wheel lacing jig'; a quick google might turn something up!
👍👍👍👍
Appreciated :-).
It might be a good video but its in the dark, l don't understand way you don't put some light on the subject so we can at least see what were doing!
Because I'm an amateur videographer / content creator who is just starting out and learning as he goes is why ;-). I
If you want more quality DIY content with silly mistakes that won't be made again heaven forbid you watch the interview with BSC Tools (in which you actually get a **DISCOUNT CODE!!!***) but have to put up with some clunky sound...
Anyway, thanks for helping me plug that little bit of info...I look forward to seeing your first upload ;-).