@@BigMisterApple i also lost interest. I just can't believe what they did. How could presumably a room full of people sit around and decide on what they did, yea let's have arya run up and stab him
@Angelo Maraboli Exactly my thoughts. It felt super cheap and just lazy. I would of preferred them not to include that story arch rather them ending it like that.
Hitchcock said that the difference between surprise and suspense is that knowing the bomb is under the table. The prologue was Martin, introducing the bomb.
@Roger the Space Marine The white walkers in every, and I mean every way have literally been the walking dead from AMC's hit show "The Walking Dead" - they are nothing like the 'others' described in the books - I honestly don't know what people were expecting from them. A motive for the mute Night King, who has nothing to do with the Night's King in the book? Sorry, no, it's simply been "Don't let the dead inside the land we've built, oh, the dead are here, better kill the zombies."
@Roger the Space Marine Just to start this off, I do think the white walkers in the show really don't at all live up to the book depiction - especially because George has made an effort to write every character never being black and white good or evil. Yet the show version whites and NK are very blatantly just evil and to be killed. But how would you imagine the Night Kings end going? He's made a clear effort the entire time to avoid anyone he thinks poses the slightest threat to him so in no way would a fight with any of the greatest swordsmen go fairly - NK wouldn't leave himself vulnerable to an attack like that as you can see in the episode when Jon starts to run for him. On top of that - I don't even think in a straight fight that Jon, Brienne, The hound etc. would win at all. You saw how fast NK reacted to Arya moving near silently - a kill on the NK would go south in any way other than a sneak attempt like Arya did. And out of the people in Winterfell, Arya is the most equipped to do that. Especially considering her character's story has been about her identity relating to death, the rejection of death and the embracing of death. I don't see a much more suitable ending to it than for her to kill death itself.
@Roger the Space Marine Oh yeah I agree with you mostly there, I thought you were taking an issue to it being Arya who took NK out. At the time of watching, I was really doubtful that she could easily sneak past all of the whites to get to NK but I guess if anyone at Winterfell could have done that it would've been her. Although I will say as it stands Cersei is a bit more well equipped that you're putting it out to be. If she had to march north then yeah, she's absolutely fucked. But all she needs to do is stay put and defend the land she already owns, at least until winter ends, which is a lot easier to set do and have ballistas/scorion turrets set up for. For most of the whole 8 seasons the capital has gone without taxes/resources from the North so basing it off that I think it's safe to assume that the capital is economically strong enough to go without the North until they find themselves in a more advantageous position - so that coupled with the fact that the only army Dany really has now is two dragons and the scraps left over as a result of the Battle of Winterfell (which is still a lot due to the dragons) I think the odds start to even out
@Roger the Space Marine I think Arya probably will be the one to take out Cersei, to be honest. (hopefully) while fulfilling Maggy the Frogs prophecy through wearing Jaime's face or something along those lines. As for Bran, I'm pretty sure he won't play much of a role in the war with Cersei. It'd be really cool to see the extent of his powers (something like warging into all of the horses that Cersei's riders are on, kicking them off and trampling them all to death would be cool to see) but due to just how powerful it is, yeah I think he'll be written out of it. Probably something to do with it being the responsibility of the three-eyed raven not to interfere with things like civil wars that ultimately won't end up making any substantial difference to human history
I do love that the first thing that happens in the series is the Others hunting a dark haired, grey eyed First Man, an unwanted scion of an ancient family, and taking care to note his blade before engaging. Almost as though they set out that day to hunt a Stark child
@@forrestpenrod2294 no if you watch the show and read the books it was alluded heavy that the walkers have ulterior motives. they arent mindless killers, in fact they spare people. in the books which the show is based on they even have a culture and language plus they even mock their prey. its weird how the show turned them into mindless zombies. Still the worst thing of all is how arya is OP now. she isnt this super ninja assassin in the book.
I always preferred the Walkers or Others when they weren’t shown as a military force (later in the show, specifically after Hardhome) but rather as creatures you would find in european folklore. “Creatures made of ice, speaking in cracking voices that come in the night to take your firstborn son into the snowstorm and the howling winds.” This combined with the little piece in the soundtrack that appears whenever they are mentioned (you know the one) made them much creepier than what they ended up being
I hate the show walkers compared to the books. The show depicts them as being like mindless robots, hell bent on just destroying everything because they're programmed to do so (like skynet from terminator). The book walkers are more like a mysterious, creepy race of other worldly beings. Almost like they belong to an ancient, fallen civilisation that the world has forgotten about. I've always been more intrigued by the others and their culture in the books. What are they? Do they have civilisation? What is their language? What is their history? Do they have a social hierarchy? Etc. I hope we find out more in the next book.
I loved how they did Hardhome, it had a wonderful creepy atmosphere. That whole secret mission to capture a Wight is what tarnished the WW for me. It sucked the mystique and otherworldliness out of them, also the original Night King actor/prosthetic looked a million times better. The new one looks super derpy lol.
I’m still fascinated by it in the show, they look mindless, but they definitely think. The scene in season 7 on the ice lake was an example of them using their brains. They saw the ice collapse they didn’t walk across because they knew they wouldn’t make it, but when the Hound threw the rock they knew they could. So they aren’t completely depicted as mindless in the show
@@simpleton836 True, mindless was probably the wrong word to use. I just hate how they have no motivation outside of 'destroy humanity'. Imagine if they were the original inhabitants of westeros that were brought to near extinction by the children of the forest/first men. Now they're back after building up their forces/civilisation to take back what is theirs. It would be ironic that the humans spent centuries fighting for the seven kingdoms when it rightfully belonged to the others all along.
The show really lost a lot by never showing how the white walkers liked to mock and laugh at their enemies. That was actually a humanizing feature. In the show, the walkers just felt like personality-less robots.
Thank you for the wonderful content!! This prologue chapter is so subtly significant, seeing as how the narrative takes literal, and in-universe years to touch back upon this.
It's honestly one of the biggest issues I have with the show, in terms of book to show differences. George hated how Tolkien depicted the orcs as one-dimensional monsters, and that's what the White Walkers have become in the show. In the books, the Others are... just that -- foreign, mysterious, and otherworldly. Not even necessarily evil, just unknowable, with motivations that put them at odds with the living. I think it's quite obvious that Martin intends for them to be a stand-in for any dehumanized foreign culture, tapping into the human fear of the unknown, commentary on how we have historically felt about "others." The show eliminates all that nuance and turns them into... ice orcs, basically. Beyond that, the Others don't even have a discernible leader in the books. Though the show got the name "Night King" from the book's "Night's King," the Night's King was a completely different character: a fabled Lord Commander who went crazy and fell in love with either a wight or an Other, depending on the source. In the books, I think all signs point to Euron "Crow's Eye" actually being the one who will take command of Viserion, using Dragonbinder, and will thus be responsible for bringing down the Wall (making Dragonbinder the famed "Horn of Winter"). Likewise, I think Euron is likely to become Bran's rival instead of any of the Others, given the implications that Euron may be a traitorous former disciple of Bloodraven's.
lee Roberts No, Bloodraven cannot see into the future. Bloodraven can see what the weirwood trees have seen, and the trees have only ever seen the past.
@@leeroberts4850 what an arrogant fallacy. How can you know you have more information than someone so as not to argue with them? If it's just because they have a different opinion, you should realise that it's just your own interpretation of the available material - which you have no more of than anyone else. Unless you have a direct link to George R R, you should get a better reason not to argue your point than "I'm right, you're wrong". All it demonstrates is ignorance
lee Roberts we know for sure they can see into the past , I don’t think anything was mentioned of the future. The time loop thing is really weird. Like in Clash Bran from book 6 I’m guessing, like beyond ADWD talks to Jon while he’s having a wolf dream. Greenseers can see into the future for sure though through their dreams, but it seems a lot like Mel reading the flames , unreliable.
lee Roberts I’m not sure what you’re gettin at, I never referenced the show. I know it will have a different ending , considering Arya never had that meet up with Mel so that whole prophecy is nonsense. I’m saying in the books, there’s no way to assume definitively say Bloodraven can “see” the future as he sees the past. The future is more vague and can be misread , where as the past is easily viewed and confirmed.
@@leeroberts4850 that's a lot to get into.. we are on the same side here, I've kind of disassociated the books from the show. The future is still vague in the dreams though is my point so it's exactly like Mel reading her flames. Using Bloodravens nephew for example. He dreams of Dunk standing over the corpse of a mighty dragon. We are forced to draw from that what we will, as is he, it's not as if in the dream he just gets a narration that it means Dunk will eventually fight in a trial by combat , and Baelor breakspear the great Targaryen crowned prince will lose his life in the process. It has to be interpreted. It's not until Baelor dies that we realize what the dream actually meant. So while the visions and dreams may be accurate, they are heavy in symbolism and hidden meanings rather than point blank visions like when they are seeing through the trees or the eyes of an animal. So to your point of Bloodraven being able to see Eurons future, there's a reasonable doubt that mayhaps he did , but potentially interpreted it the wrong way.
You will be surprised by how they actually started the fuck the story up. It didn't begin with the books being done, it started with slight alterations and simplifications of the story in season 2. But the 'dumbing down' was clearly appearent when they literally started to turn things around in season 3 and 4. And after the 4th season, it really lost most of its touch with what George R. R. Martin created and started to become a one dimensional heroic epic.
One clear case of the obvious distinction between the book and show walkers: In the show, we see the events that happen in hardhome, in the books we only read about it through a second-hand account.
The line where they laugh is probably what freaked me out the most. As you said, the human characteristic juxtaposing against supernatural/inhuman is really creepy. It reminds me of those pics of dogs with human teeth. It’s unnatural and eerie as hell
This prologue was the hook for me in 2012, 7 years later and countless books, reviews, shows, stories, interviews later, I am still waiting to read more about this mystical world..
where the show and books differ in focus, just think of the titles of each series A song of Ice and Fire Game of Thrones the show is clearly focused and into the conflict that is for the throne. the books always had the feeling that all the political and human conflicts were petty and trivial in comparison to the Others, who were coming, and no one with the power to stop them knew or cared enough.
Ice and Fire in the books' title may refer to various things. The harmony of death and life, Two entities that are hinted to be pulling the strings of the world, Jon's possible origins, Two types of magic and the infinite struggle/harmony among them. It's still not clear what the Others want in the books.
I know thanks to the new season this advice is being mocked but I liked this video. I’ve rarely seen channels that discuss the imagery in books, I think you did a good job(unlike the writers in season 8 of course.)
Savage: "In season 8 I am sure we will learn more about the white walkers and their motivations." DnD: *We are about to destroy this man's whole career...*
The books and the show treated the Others so differently. You're accurate in calling them "elves," they almost have the allure of vampires. What they are not is traditional, oozy zombies. Their portrayal in the show bores me to death
I dont know how to do it better in the show, but the books just eclipse the show Walkers. I think it comes down to the HPL effect. You cant put "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" on screen the same way it evolves in the mind. I am currently reading Frankenstein and here is a description: "His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! - Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was of a lustrous black, and flowing; his teeth of pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his watery eyes, that seemed almost of the same colour as the dun-white sockets in which they were set, his shrivelled complexion and straight black lips." Just for fun, since it comes close to the "zombie" thing that the Walkers represent.
Well for starters the show could've at least maintened the fact that they can actually speak, but they threw that away right from the first episode so already from the start the show told us in our faces that their "Others" were gonna be oversimplified versions of their source version.
I love this channel's videos. I don't think I've watched one yet that hasn't had exciting and impressive analysis. I'll be pleased if I can keep even a fraction of it in mind when I'm writing.
Thank you very much... As a published writer (In Farsi) I have been working on writing a fantasy story in English and this really helps... I've read ASoIaF but analyais of a work always help in ways just reading may not. Much appreciated. Maybe one day you'll analyze my work hehehe Good day.
I like the term you introduce, a 'verbal silhouette'. It brought to my mind the work of Tolkien, which often provides little by way of specific details when describing fantastic creatures. The effect is one of actually making the impression more vivid for the reader. Testament to this is the myriad visual interpretations in Tolkien-inspired artwork. Providing enough to give a distinct impression, but lacking irrelevant specifics, allows the reader to fill in the blanks with whatever is most horrifying, or pleasing (when appropriate) for that person. Hence the great debate about whether Balrogs have wings etc. - the point is that it doesn't matter. You are free to 'see' them as you understood from the hints in the text, and that doesn't need to correlate precisely to any other reader's imagined visuals. This is one of the ways in which literature can be more affecting than cinema.
I always sort of saw the white walkers (others) as winter fae and the children of the forest as summer fae. They're like these mystical ancient beings with magical powers and a mysterious agenda. George always talked about how he disliked the fantasy tropes where there was a "good" and "evil" in stories and how everyone was a hero on the other side. The books portray the white walkers as intelligent and almost alien beings. The show diverges from this to turn them into stereotypical and mindless zombies that are just an embodiment of death...that get defeated in 1 episode and 1 attack with no purpose or backstory ever explained.
I wanted to laugh, and laugh and laugh more as a response to what you said to end this video. But you are one of us. So i will give you a genuine hug instead.
I just noticed that the description of the Others fit their supposed story and GRRM chose their apparent color changing armor to fit this story without telling us straight away: white for the snow and winter, black because they are like shadows and can't be properly called human (more like specters or ghouls) and green like the trees for the Children of the Forest.
I remember picking up the book randomly thinking it is just another fantasy book series about three years ago I had never heard of the TV show since I was a little younger than the target audience I pushed it aside for a while hesitant to commit to a book series that fills a shelf by itself But then, when I finally started reading and I read that prologue chapter, I was shocked, terriefied and I knew this book was diffrent than the Lotr copycats, I knew this series was something special I had never seen before
I can relate to a point, back when the series started I had no idea about why there was so much hype about it as Ihad never heard of it. Some time before season 3 began airing I had been increasingly curious after watching some trailers on tv breaks and thought "this seems more interesting than I thought" because I had assumed it was just another historical fiction show, those were very popular at that time. Then I binged season 1 in a single night and decided to research, I found out the series had 4 books printed with a 5th coming some months down the road. I then got the 4 books and binged season 2 all the time thinking if I should or not since the books would probably be less funny. My was I wrong, as soon as I finished season 2 I half heartedly started reading book 1 and I was hooked so fast I only stopped to eat, drink and se the bathroom.
For everyone complaining in the comments about the show, just read the books! They've always been superior. I read them years ago and having read them, the show doesn't bother me as much because I had already accepted how different they were for years.
I became interested in the show due to theory videos on who and what the White Walkers were and this was right between the time of Seasons 7 and 8. I immediately became transfixed with these creatures and after watching scenes of Season 7 and the whole build up with these mysterious beings as the main antagonists for the final showdown I was actually excited getting into the thick of things right around the time. Seeing how horribly Episode 3 went down I cant help but be absolutely hurt despite not having followed the show and the books nearly as long as most fans have. I dont need to have followed as a hardcore fan to see the butchery of this cryptic and interesting species that were supposed to be the driving force of the end of this series. All the questions that never got answered, the finale I never got to see, no payoff to anything I felt about these creatures, they're just taken out like an afterthought for no reason. It's almost impressive how badly the writers can blatantly destroy an entire show in one fell swoop.
I read the books but I can't remember,in the books do the swords break when an Other's blade makes contact with it? Because that is what happens in the show
@@tevcon317 So a normal weapon doesn't break but it also does nothing against an Others blade. Also a valyrian steel weapon and dragonglass can only kill an Other but fire can only kill the dead that they have raised back to life?
@@tevcon317 According to the wiki an Others blade can shatter a steel sword yet in the encounter between the Others and Ser Waymar Royce, when his blade touched the others blade it only made a strange sound and was covered in frost and it didn't shatter
It does eventually shatter, because shards of it fly into his face. So it does shatter, just not right away like in the show, the blades are slowly made more brittle as the cold of the white walker blade freezes them. Edit: the passages used here are not back to back, there are parts omitted in between (such as his sword shattering) also, it has yet to be confirmed in the books that Velyrian steel can kill an Other (white walker), thought the nature of it may be what keeps it from growing brittle and freezing like normal steel. Only one white walker has ever died, and he was stabbed in the throat with a dragon glass dagger by Sam. Though, again, there has been no evidence that normal steel cant necessarily kill an other. It may just be harder, because the steel can't stand up to the cold of the white walker blade like Dragonglass, or Velyrian steel could.
I know this sounds hokey, but you've pointed out some great points that I as a writer have used to make my own work better. (I know TH-cam is kind of an odd place to get writing advice, but this is awesome. I'd actually like for you to do another analysis of his description of the Others or another super natural event - maybe Melissandre's shadow baby.)
I just love how every game of thrones related video uploaded before season 8 ends with "with dragon 8 coming up, I'm sure we'll learn more about *subject* " The show just took a big shit on it's characters, world and lore
It would've been cool if Jon was related to the night king and thats why he stared Jon down. Also given Jon was resurrected and he's the literal song of ice and fire I thought he'd end up like Cold Hands or his uncle benjen that was kept alive because of the dragonglass that was put in him to keep him alive but kept him from crossing the wall.
Video: what writing techniques does GRRM use to make the white walkers so damn intimidating. Us: what writing techniques did D&D use to reduce the white walkers into an overused, one dimensional trope
George RR Martin has spent this entire book series breaking tropes left and right. Kill the main character in the first book? ✔️ Give everyone a reason for their actions? He's getting there, but overall, yeah. ✔️ Everyone is morally gray. ✔️ Make the usually pure evil and completely unredeemable super beings morally gray? ✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️ Meanwhile D&D shat on all of this. Especially the Others. They are just Ice Skynet. Oh, and war and is celebrated. Something that George hates probably more than anything.
Very good video. It makes me think they approached the show totally wrong, the others should have been a mystery until very close to the end. I wonder if they should have ignored the prologue and opened with just the starks, and instead have the first time we hear of ‘the others’ would be through the words of the mad stricken survivor. Coupled with haunting music, it would let the audience know that ‘the others’ are important to the story without showing them. The first time we should see one is at the fist. The show gave us too much info and familiarity with them, and subsequently they are far more different. They are just like super powered ice zombies, where as in my head they are more like ghosts that move like spiders. Precise and silent.
Great video and analysis of the writing. I hope you don't mind but on a point of the audio for the video - your audio is so bassy that it's borderline muddy. Your mids need to come up and your bass down a touch.
I think another thing Martin does well is naming them. "The Others". Giving them such a simple name highlights that they are separate from humanity and in some way from even human knowledge itself. It also requires no explanation, as it's still an English word, and thus everyone knows what it means.
Messiah de jude yeah he has drawn certain parallels between the two in an interview- obviously theres differences-climate change is not a supernatural force, but it’s always been a parallel I’ve seen- a sort of supernatural doom that humanity ignores out of ignorance, greed and petty power dynamics- too busy and disconnected with to truly understand the threat of. The Others also bring the long night- a literal climate change. Despite not having a huge amount of knowledge on them several different conclusions can be made of them, which is great, but if we are going for real world parallel is say the others definitely represent climate change, for me at least.
@@frenchguitarguy1091 thanks. So it seems to me too. Although I fear that we may miss the difference between allegory and applicability here as did some readers concerning Tolkien's Lotr and saw the ring as an allegory of nuclear weapons in spite of Tolkien's intention, nevertheless your idea of climate change seems quite convincing.
Messiah de jude oh yeah of course, there is no way of knowing wherever this was GRRM intentions for the others, but he’s been writing the books for more than 20 years now, his intentions for the others have likely changed over time
I don't think any of us were prepared for how bad season eight was going to be, or how far and fast it would fall, LOL. I fully expected the men of Westeros to be pushed back at least to within spitting distance of King's Landing...with most of the people of Westeros wiped out and whoever won the Game of Thrones ruling over a land mostly laid waste.
They blew it right from episode 1 season 1 when they missed the chance to show us that they had a proper language and such. In the show they never even spoke once despite multiple scenes where they appeared, it just shows how people were foolish to expect the show to portray them anything like the books do when they missed the opportunity from the get go.
Moka A. They can do that, but it's a thing they do at will and not immediately. Te white walker decided to duel him without breaking his sword until the very end.
Swords break over time. Remember in this video how it mentions that the steel blade became coated in frost? That's what it is in the show. It's not like a magical "disintegrate weapons" enchantment or something, it's simply supernaturally extreme cold from the Other's blade that freezes the steel and makes it more and more brittle as a result, until eventually it shatters.
"With season 8 coming up, we're sure to learn a whole lot more about the white walkers"
Hahaha oh no, this poor man
What they did to the story was horrible and I genuinly lost interest in the show.
@@BigMisterApple Same, will you ride it out because there's so little left or just nope, done?
@@esmee6308 Tbqh I'm done. Feels bad to say, feels even worse to do, but I refuse to hate watch something I've loved for 20 years.
I feel so bad for @Savage Books
@@BigMisterApple i also lost interest. I just can't believe what they did. How could presumably a room full of people sit around and decide on what they did, yea let's have arya run up and stab him
The white walkers are interesting antagonists
Season 8 Episode 3: Let me end this mans whole career
Thank you , the comment I was looking for
this comment will explode
Bruh
I really started hating the show since season 6
@Angelo Maraboli Exactly my thoughts. It felt super cheap and just lazy. I would of preferred them not to include that story arch rather them ending it like that.
"With season 8 we will know a lot more about the white walkers." Man, give me a hugh. Its okay to cry
GP guitar are u sure
Lol
Yeah, those two whole episodes taught us so much
Bahhhaahahah. That’s exactly what I came to comment
Don't know if Hugh would appreciate being given away just like that.
*with season 8 coming up, I am sure we will see and learn much more about the white walkers than ever before*
Oh my sweet summer child...
lol
Ah the innocence of youth
Jajajajajajaja te mamaste jajaja
How young and naive we all were in the distant past of last month. Memories.
@@Alex-tb5xm lmao
Hitchcock said that the difference between surprise and suspense is that knowing the bomb is under the table. The prologue was Martin, introducing the bomb.
and the bomb going off was Arya's dagger through the kang.
@Roger the Space Marine The white walkers in every, and I mean every way have literally been the walking dead from AMC's hit show "The Walking Dead" - they are nothing like the 'others' described in the books - I honestly don't know what people were expecting from them. A motive for the mute Night King, who has nothing to do with the Night's King in the book?
Sorry, no, it's simply been "Don't let the dead inside the land we've built, oh, the dead are here, better kill the zombies."
@Roger the Space Marine Just to start this off, I do think the white walkers in the show really don't at all live up to the book depiction - especially because George has made an effort to write every character never being black and white good or evil. Yet the show version whites and NK are very blatantly just evil and to be killed. But how would you imagine the Night Kings end going? He's made a clear effort the entire time to avoid anyone he thinks poses the slightest threat to him so in no way would a fight with any of the greatest swordsmen go fairly - NK wouldn't leave himself vulnerable to an attack like that as you can see in the episode when Jon starts to run for him. On top of that - I don't even think in a straight fight that Jon, Brienne, The hound etc. would win at all. You saw how fast NK reacted to Arya moving near silently - a kill on the NK would go south in any way other than a sneak attempt like Arya did. And out of the people in Winterfell, Arya is the most equipped to do that. Especially considering her character's story has been about her identity relating to death, the rejection of death and the embracing of death. I don't see a much more suitable ending to it than for her to kill death itself.
@Roger the Space Marine Oh yeah I agree with you mostly there, I thought you were taking an issue to it being Arya who took NK out. At the time of watching, I was really doubtful that she could easily sneak past all of the whites to get to NK but I guess if anyone at Winterfell could have done that it would've been her. Although I will say as it stands Cersei is a bit more well equipped that you're putting it out to be. If she had to march north then yeah, she's absolutely fucked. But all she needs to do is stay put and defend the land she already owns, at least until winter ends, which is a lot easier to set do and have ballistas/scorion turrets set up for. For most of the whole 8 seasons the capital has gone without taxes/resources from the North so basing it off that I think it's safe to assume that the capital is economically strong enough to go without the North until they find themselves in a more advantageous position - so that coupled with the fact that the only army Dany really has now is two dragons and the scraps left over as a result of the Battle of Winterfell (which is still a lot due to the dragons) I think the odds start to even out
@Roger the Space Marine I think Arya probably will be the one to take out Cersei, to be honest. (hopefully) while fulfilling Maggy the Frogs prophecy through wearing Jaime's face or something along those lines. As for Bran, I'm pretty sure he won't play much of a role in the war with Cersei. It'd be really cool to see the extent of his powers (something like warging into all of the horses that Cersei's riders are on, kicking them off and trampling them all to death would be cool to see) but due to just how powerful it is, yeah I think he'll be written out of it. Probably something to do with it being the responsibility of the three-eyed raven not to interfere with things like civil wars that ultimately won't end up making any substantial difference to human history
If only TH-cam recommended this to the script-writers in time! :I
I do love that the first thing that happens in the series is the Others hunting a dark haired, grey eyed First Man, an unwanted scion of an ancient family, and taking care to note his blade before engaging. Almost as though they set out that day to hunt a Stark child
well they are all dead now according to the show... reduced to brainless monsters with no real purpose other then destruction. what a waste
And they can't even do destruction right!
They were that way from two seasons ago when they explained their origin...
@@forrestpenrod2294 Not necessarily, they didn't really explain them completely, this episode more or less confirmed what we feared...
The White Walker story arch was so anticlimactic they shouldn't of even bothered.
@@forrestpenrod2294 no if you watch the show and read the books it was alluded heavy that the walkers have ulterior motives. they arent mindless killers, in fact they spare people. in the books which the show is based on they even have a culture and language plus they even mock their prey. its weird how the show turned them into mindless zombies. Still the worst thing of all is how arya is OP now. she isnt this super ninja assassin in the book.
I always preferred the Walkers or Others when they weren’t shown as a military force (later in the show, specifically after Hardhome) but rather as creatures you would find in european folklore. “Creatures made of ice, speaking in cracking voices that come in the night to take your firstborn son into the snowstorm and the howling winds.” This combined with the little piece in the soundtrack that appears whenever they are mentioned (you know the one) made them much creepier than what they ended up being
Nordic folklore not European folklore, and Europe isn’t the only place where folklore like this exists smh.
@@dimitrescucrncevic9746 Whats your problem?
Someone's got a 9 yard stick up their ass.
@@dimitrescucrncevic9746 Nordic folklore is amazing, but it isn’t the only European folklore to have creatures like this.
We learned nothing about the white walkers. Gotta wait for the books.
We did learn something. Turns out they hate it when people remember things.
@Dr Boom at least we learned the droid's motives in star wars
and it seems like martin has no intention of finishing the books
Yeah we'll wait like at least 10 years for that.
He will never finish the books, but HBO makes a prequel show placed during the Long Night, it will be all about the White Walkers' lore.
I hate the show walkers compared to the books. The show depicts them as being like mindless robots, hell bent on just destroying everything because they're programmed to do so (like skynet from terminator).
The book walkers are more like a mysterious, creepy race of other worldly beings. Almost like they belong to an ancient, fallen civilisation that the world has forgotten about.
I've always been more intrigued by the others and their culture in the books. What are they? Do they have civilisation? What is their language? What is their history? Do they have a social hierarchy? Etc.
I hope we find out more in the next book.
I loved how they did Hardhome, it had a wonderful creepy atmosphere. That whole secret mission to capture a Wight is what tarnished the WW for me. It sucked the mystique and otherworldliness out of them, also the original Night King actor/prosthetic looked a million times better. The new one looks super derpy lol.
I’m still fascinated by it in the show, they look mindless, but they definitely think. The scene in season 7 on the ice lake was an example of them using their brains. They saw the ice collapse they didn’t walk across because they knew they wouldn’t make it, but when the Hound threw the rock they knew they could. So they aren’t completely depicted as mindless in the show
@@simpleton836 True, mindless was probably the wrong word to use. I just hate how they have no motivation outside of 'destroy humanity'.
Imagine if they were the original inhabitants of westeros that were brought to near extinction by the children of the forest/first men. Now they're back after building up their forces/civilisation to take back what is theirs.
It would be ironic that the humans spent centuries fighting for the seven kingdoms when it rightfully belonged to the others all along.
i hate how the children of the forest were given an avatar reason of creating the white walkers
Skroth is their language
with season 8 coming up, we're sure to learn a whole lot more about the white walkers
lay down, try not to cry
cry a lot
9:09 "I am sure we will see and learn much more about the White Walkers then ever before"
Yeah... no
The show really lost a lot by never showing how the white walkers liked to mock and laugh at their enemies. That was actually a humanizing feature. In the show, the walkers just felt like personality-less robots.
That's just one thing needlessly lost from the book (prologue). They could have included a lot more of it
Thank you for the wonderful content!!
This prologue chapter is so subtly significant, seeing as how the narrative takes literal, and in-universe years to touch back upon this.
"Its eyes burned like ice" George loves associating ice with fire and this line was just one of many that do so.
It's honestly one of the biggest issues I have with the show, in terms of book to show differences. George hated how Tolkien depicted the orcs as one-dimensional monsters, and that's what the White Walkers have become in the show.
In the books, the Others are... just that -- foreign, mysterious, and otherworldly. Not even necessarily evil, just unknowable, with motivations that put them at odds with the living. I think it's quite obvious that Martin intends for them to be a stand-in for any dehumanized foreign culture, tapping into the human fear of the unknown, commentary on how we have historically felt about "others."
The show eliminates all that nuance and turns them into... ice orcs, basically.
Beyond that, the Others don't even have a discernible leader in the books. Though the show got the name "Night King" from the book's "Night's King," the Night's King was a completely different character: a fabled Lord Commander who went crazy and fell in love with either a wight or an Other, depending on the source.
In the books, I think all signs point to Euron "Crow's Eye" actually being the one who will take command of Viserion, using Dragonbinder, and will thus be responsible for bringing down the Wall (making Dragonbinder the famed "Horn of Winter"). Likewise, I think Euron is likely to become Bran's rival instead of any of the Others, given the implications that Euron may be a traitorous former disciple of Bloodraven's.
lee Roberts No, Bloodraven cannot see into the future. Bloodraven can see what the weirwood trees have seen, and the trees have only ever seen the past.
@@leeroberts4850 what an arrogant fallacy. How can you know you have more information than someone so as not to argue with them? If it's just because they have a different opinion, you should realise that it's just your own interpretation of the available material - which you have no more of than anyone else. Unless you have a direct link to George R R, you should get a better reason not to argue your point than "I'm right, you're wrong". All it demonstrates is ignorance
lee Roberts we know for sure they can see into the past , I don’t think anything was mentioned of the future. The time loop thing is really weird. Like in Clash Bran from book 6 I’m guessing, like beyond ADWD talks to Jon while he’s having a wolf dream. Greenseers can see into the future for sure though through their dreams, but it seems a lot like Mel reading the flames , unreliable.
lee Roberts I’m not sure what you’re gettin at, I never referenced the show. I know it will have a different ending , considering Arya never had that meet up with Mel so that whole prophecy is nonsense.
I’m saying in the books, there’s no way to assume definitively say Bloodraven can “see” the future as he sees the past. The future is more vague and can be misread , where as the past is easily viewed and confirmed.
@@leeroberts4850 that's a lot to get into.. we are on the same side here, I've kind of disassociated the books from the show.
The future is still vague in the dreams though is my point so it's exactly like Mel reading her flames. Using Bloodravens nephew for example. He dreams of Dunk standing over the corpse of a mighty dragon. We are forced to draw from that what we will, as is he, it's not as if in the dream he just gets a narration that it means Dunk will eventually fight in a trial by combat , and Baelor breakspear the great Targaryen crowned prince will lose his life in the process. It has to be interpreted. It's not until Baelor dies that we realize what the dream actually meant. So while the visions and dreams may be accurate, they are heavy in symbolism and hidden meanings rather than point blank visions like when they are seeing through the trees or the eyes of an animal. So to your point of Bloodraven being able to see Eurons future, there's a reasonable doubt that mayhaps he did , but potentially interpreted it the wrong way.
Next up; "How D&D Failed the White Walkers."
D&D?
@@ihavecuttheedgenowiamedgei7820 Dumb and Dumber, sorry I mean David and Dan, the show writers.
It's not over yet
We'll always have the earlier seasons, my friend, we will.
@@1DuneFam yeah but if you rewatch the series you will look at every White Walker scene and just cringe at how pointless it is.. literally filler.
I wish the show runners saw this before episode 3
To be fair in the books we haven’t even met a night king yet assuming there is one.
@@flyingninjamimejr the books hints a lot at the character called the Night's King but the night king is not the same
Don't think they would've cared, they're just hell bent on finishing the show.
flying ninja mime jr there is the “Great Other” but whether that’s the Night King book equivalent who knows.
The faults ran far before episode 3. Due to their treatment as a mindless force of evil, and with the creation of the Nighy King.
Damn, this has actually tempted me to read the books.
Also thanks for the analysis, this was really solid.
You will be surprised by how they actually started the fuck the story up. It didn't begin with the books being done, it started with slight alterations and simplifications of the story in season 2.
But the 'dumbing down' was clearly appearent when they literally started to turn things around in season 3 and 4.
And after the 4th season, it really lost most of its touch with what George R. R. Martin created and started to become a one dimensional heroic epic.
One clear case of the obvious distinction between the book and show walkers: In the show, we see the events that happen in hardhome, in the books we only read about it through a second-hand account.
"Dead things in the water". That line was epic...
The line where they laugh is probably what freaked me out the most. As you said, the human characteristic juxtaposing against supernatural/inhuman is really creepy. It reminds me of those pics of dogs with human teeth. It’s unnatural and eerie as hell
This prologue was the hook for me in 2012, 7 years later and countless books, reviews, shows, stories, interviews later, I am still waiting to read more about this mystical world..
Why does this only have 1.4k views?!
Brilliant video dude!
9:08 lmao okay
Sigh...
where the show and books differ in focus, just think of the titles of each series
A song of Ice and Fire
Game of Thrones
the show is clearly focused and into the conflict that is for the throne. the books always had the feeling that all the political and human conflicts were petty and trivial in comparison to the Others, who were coming, and no one with the power to stop them knew or cared enough.
Ice and Fire in the books' title may refer to various things.
The harmony of death and life, Two entities that are hinted to be pulling the strings of the world, Jon's possible origins, Two types of magic and the infinite struggle/harmony among them.
It's still not clear what the Others want in the books.
"with season 8 coming up, we surely learn a whole lot more about the white walkers" oh my sweet sweet summer child
thank you for speaking directly into your mic
I know thanks to the new season this advice is being mocked but I liked this video. I’ve rarely seen channels that discuss the imagery in books, I think you did a good job(unlike the writers in season 8 of course.)
I like how Royce gets a little arc in the prologue, even if it’s not very subtle.
Savage: "In season 8 I am sure we will learn more about the white walkers and their motivations."
DnD: *We are about to destroy this man's whole career...*
The books and the show treated the Others so differently. You're accurate in calling them "elves," they almost have the allure of vampires. What they are not is traditional, oozy zombies. Their portrayal in the show bores me to death
There supposed to be elf like, beautiful but yet strange, the show does them no service.
More of this , please. Like how to write this sort of thing. This video has been so helpful to me, and I can't thank you enough. Much goodness.
Ah I read the books a few years ago but I've forgotten everything and only remember the stuff that happened in the series. Thanks for the video!
I dont know how to do it better in the show, but the books just eclipse the show Walkers. I think it comes down to the HPL effect. You cant put "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" on screen the same way it evolves in the mind.
I am currently reading Frankenstein and here is a description: "His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! - Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was of a lustrous black, and flowing; his teeth of pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his watery eyes, that seemed almost of the same colour as the dun-white sockets in which they were set, his shrivelled complexion and straight black lips."
Just for fun, since it comes close to the "zombie" thing that the Walkers represent.
Mofriese Others are not zombie in any way, they are not even dead
Well for starters the show could've at least maintened the fact that they can actually speak, but they threw that away right from the first episode so already from the start the show told us in our faces that their "Others" were gonna be oversimplified versions of their source version.
I love this channel's videos. I don't think I've watched one yet that hasn't had exciting and impressive analysis. I'll be pleased if I can keep even a fraction of it in mind when I'm writing.
Thank you very much...
As a published writer (In Farsi) I have been working on writing a fantasy story in English and this really helps... I've read ASoIaF but analyais of a work always help in ways just reading may not.
Much appreciated.
Maybe one day you'll analyze my work hehehe
Good day.
Hope you write it soon....Love to read New fantasy....Love and best of luck from India!
The sound of the blades clashing makes me think of the sound made by cutting dry ice with a knife.
I don't even write, but like to watch your vids as a learning tool. Keep it up man :)
I like the term you introduce, a 'verbal silhouette'. It brought to my mind the work of Tolkien, which often provides little by way of specific details when describing fantastic creatures. The effect is one of actually making the impression more vivid for the reader. Testament to this is the myriad visual interpretations in Tolkien-inspired artwork. Providing enough to give a distinct impression, but lacking irrelevant specifics, allows the reader to fill in the blanks with whatever is most horrifying, or pleasing (when appropriate) for that person. Hence the great debate about whether Balrogs have wings etc. - the point is that it doesn't matter. You are free to 'see' them as you understood from the hints in the text, and that doesn't need to correlate precisely to any other reader's imagined visuals. This is one of the ways in which literature can be more affecting than cinema.
The Prolouge to A Game of Thrones has to be the best opening chapter to a book I've ever read
i would love to see you do a video on how Georges writing style and habits have changed from 1991 to now. like his skill and vocabulary etc
Damn, this video is really good!!
You're always there in the comments of videos I like e.e
@@8bitmagic u have good taste
People read books
This man feel books
The one time this channel actually analyzes something from a book
I always sort of saw the white walkers (others) as winter fae and the children of the forest as summer fae. They're like these mystical ancient beings with magical powers and a mysterious agenda. George always talked about how he disliked the fantasy tropes where there was a "good" and "evil" in stories and how everyone was a hero on the other side. The books portray the white walkers as intelligent and almost alien beings. The show diverges from this to turn them into stereotypical and mindless zombies that are just an embodiment of death...that get defeated in 1 episode and 1 attack with no purpose or backstory ever explained.
I wanted to laugh, and laugh and laugh more as a response to what you said to end this video. But you are one of us. So i will give you a genuine hug instead.
I just noticed that the description of the Others fit their supposed story and GRRM chose their apparent color changing armor to fit this story without telling us straight away: white for the snow and winter, black because they are like shadows and can't be properly called human (more like specters or ghouls) and green like the trees for the Children of the Forest.
I think the paragraph just meant that their armor reflects the enviroment.
I remember picking up the book randomly thinking it is just another fantasy book series about three years ago
I had never heard of the TV show since I was a little younger than the target audience
I pushed it aside for a while hesitant to commit to a book series that fills a shelf by itself
But then, when I finally started reading and I read that prologue chapter, I was shocked, terriefied and I knew this book was diffrent than the Lotr copycats, I knew this series was something special I had never seen before
Samuel Schönenberger damn I envy you reading the books first that way
I can relate to a point, back when the series started I had no idea about why there was so much hype about it as Ihad never heard of it. Some time before season 3 began airing I had been increasingly curious after watching some trailers on tv breaks and thought "this seems more interesting than I thought" because I had assumed it was just another historical fiction show, those were very popular at that time. Then I binged season 1 in a single night and decided to research, I found out the series had 4 books printed with a 5th coming some months down the road. I then got the 4 books and binged season 2 all the time thinking if I should or not since the books would probably be less funny. My was I wrong, as soon as I finished season 2 I half heartedly started reading book 1 and I was hooked so fast I only stopped to eat, drink and se the bathroom.
There's only one first time reading ASoIaF. And one second. And a third. And a fourth. And a fifth, but you have to skip Dany at that point.^^
@@DrZaius3141 I skipped parts of Dany in my first read...
@@samuelschonenberger why ?
9:07 "With season 8 coming up I am sure we will learn more about the whitwalkers"
D&D: Yeah ........ We don't do that here.
Just re-visited this video and I would love to know if you're planning on doing any more videos on novel writing!
For everyone complaining in the comments about the show, just read the books! They've always been superior. I read them years ago and having read them, the show doesn't bother me as much because I had already accepted how different they were for years.
Wow, this was amazing. Great work!
The Show Night King's appearances is kinda looks like a dark force with red face and black lines with small multiple horns on the top of his head.
I became interested in the show due to theory videos on who and what the White Walkers were and this was right between the time of Seasons 7 and 8. I immediately became transfixed with these creatures and after watching scenes of Season 7 and the whole build up with these mysterious beings as the main antagonists for the final showdown I was actually excited getting into the thick of things right around the time.
Seeing how horribly Episode 3 went down I cant help but be absolutely hurt despite not having followed the show and the books nearly as long as most fans have. I dont need to have followed as a hardcore fan to see the butchery of this cryptic and interesting species that were supposed to be the driving force of the end of this series. All the questions that never got answered, the finale I never got to see, no payoff to anything I felt about these creatures, they're just taken out like an afterthought for no reason. It's almost impressive how badly the writers can blatantly destroy an entire show in one fell swoop.
In season 8 we learned that the White Walkers are a bunch of cinnamon rolls
We wish we could of learned more about them...
I read the books but I can't remember,in the books do the swords break when an Other's blade makes contact with it? Because that is what happens in the show
They dont break in the books
@@tevcon317 Are you sure.....cause I sort of recall the shatter of a blade in the books....not sure though?
@@tevcon317 So a normal weapon doesn't break but it also does nothing against an Others blade. Also a valyrian steel weapon and dragonglass can only kill an Other but fire can only kill the dead that they have raised back to life?
@@tevcon317 According to the wiki an Others blade can shatter a steel sword yet in the encounter between the Others and Ser Waymar Royce, when his blade touched the others blade it only made a strange sound and was covered in frost and it didn't shatter
It does eventually shatter, because shards of it fly into his face. So it does shatter, just not right away like in the show, the blades are slowly made more brittle as the cold of the white walker blade freezes them.
Edit: the passages used here are not back to back, there are parts omitted in between (such as his sword shattering)
also, it has yet to be confirmed in the books that Velyrian steel can kill an Other (white walker), thought the nature of it may be what keeps it from growing brittle and freezing like normal steel. Only one white walker has ever died, and he was stabbed in the throat with a dragon glass dagger by Sam. Though, again, there has been no evidence that normal steel cant necessarily kill an other. It may just be harder, because the steel can't stand up to the cold of the white walker blade like Dragonglass, or Velyrian steel could.
D&D: We're about to end this man's whole glacier
Somehow I know exactly what GRRM means when he writes “burns like ice”.
I know this sounds hokey, but you've pointed out some great points that I as a writer have used to make my own work better. (I know TH-cam is kind of an odd place to get writing advice, but this is awesome. I'd actually like for you to do another analysis of his description of the Others or another super natural event - maybe Melissandre's shadow baby.)
Leaves in the snow? Now that's some weird fiction.
I just love how every game of thrones related video uploaded before season 8 ends with "with dragon 8 coming up, I'm sure we'll learn more about *subject* "
The show just took a big shit on it's characters, world and lore
I wonder if we’ll ever get a new night king in the books sense their isn’t one I’ve seen theories that Jon might become one
It would've been cool if Jon was related to the night king and thats why he stared Jon down. Also given Jon was resurrected and he's the literal song of ice and fire I thought he'd end up like Cold Hands or his uncle benjen that was kept alive because of the dragonglass that was put in him to keep him alive but kept him from crossing the wall.
Night king returns in episode 6
Video: what writing techniques does GRRM use to make the white walkers so damn intimidating.
Us: what writing techniques did D&D use to reduce the white walkers into an overused, one dimensional trope
Great analysis, I really wanted to master English language but still not having any lucks.
Escuchar el prólogo del libro me ha emocionado más que toda la jodida temporada 8; vaya manera de echar a perder una gran serie.
ngl when i read the first book before watching the show, i had no idea what was being described lol
George RR Martin has spent this entire book series breaking tropes left and right. Kill the main character in the first book? ✔️
Give everyone a reason for their actions? He's getting there, but overall, yeah. ✔️
Everyone is morally gray. ✔️
Make the usually pure evil and completely unredeemable super beings morally gray? ✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️
Meanwhile D&D shat on all of this. Especially the Others. They are just Ice Skynet. Oh, and war and is celebrated. Something that George hates probably more than anything.
Savage books: With season 8 coming up, I'm sure we'll see and learn a lot more about the white walkers than ever before
Narrator: he was wrong
“We’ll see and learn much more” NOPE
Very good video. It makes me think they approached the show totally wrong, the others should have been a mystery until very close to the end.
I wonder if they should have ignored the prologue and opened with just the starks, and instead have the first time we hear of ‘the others’ would be through the words of the mad stricken survivor. Coupled with haunting music, it would let the audience know that ‘the others’ are important to the story without showing them.
The first time we should see one is at the fist. The show gave us too much info and familiarity with them, and subsequently they are far more different. They are just like super powered ice zombies, where as in my head they are more like ghosts that move like spiders. Precise and silent.
Excellent Essay!
Turns out they were just popsicle puppets.
9:08 about that...
I am sad...
Great video and analysis of the writing. I hope you don't mind but on a point of the audio for the video - your audio is so bassy that it's borderline muddy. Your mids need to come up and your bass down a touch.
Good video!
I think another thing Martin does well is naming them. "The Others". Giving them such a simple name highlights that they are separate from humanity and in some way from even human knowledge itself. It also requires no explanation, as it's still an English word, and thus everyone knows what it means.
could you analyse season 8 episode 3 of the show
*Hears music*
What do the White Walkers want? BURGER KING FOOT LETTUCE!
4:59
5:46
6:55
Well if you can take what come from the show as any indication for the books... I don’t think we can
Not even their mystic armor can stand in the way of a good old fashioned jump.
Really glad this was in my recommended feed. Strange how you only have 7.5k subs hope you grow a lot!
In season 8 we learn their one weakness: girls who can switch their knife hands
Don't they look more of a natural force than of intelligent android beings? Description wise
Well they are basically a metaphor for climate change so that’s not surprising
@@frenchguitarguy1091 has Martin confirmed it?
Messiah de jude yeah he has drawn certain parallels between the two in an interview- obviously theres differences-climate change is not a supernatural force, but it’s always been a parallel I’ve seen- a sort of supernatural doom that humanity ignores out of ignorance, greed and petty power dynamics- too busy and disconnected with to truly understand the threat of. The Others also bring the long night- a literal climate change.
Despite not having a huge amount of knowledge on them several different conclusions can be made of them, which is great, but if we are going for real world parallel is say the others definitely represent climate change, for me at least.
@@frenchguitarguy1091 thanks. So it seems to me too. Although I fear that we may miss the difference between allegory and applicability here as did some readers concerning Tolkien's Lotr and saw the ring as an allegory of nuclear weapons in spite of Tolkien's intention, nevertheless your idea of climate change seems quite convincing.
Messiah de jude oh yeah of course, there is no way of knowing wherever this was GRRM intentions for the others, but he’s been writing the books for more than 20 years now, his intentions for the others have likely changed over time
It's like im here from the future to warn you not to watch season 8.
Beautiful!!
What a famous last wards 😂
What about Sams 1st chapter? That part is wild.
I don't think any of us were prepared for how bad season eight was going to be, or how far and fast it would fall, LOL. I fully expected the men of Westeros to be pushed back at least to within spitting distance of King's Landing...with most of the people of Westeros wiped out and whoever won the Game of Thrones ruling over a land mostly laid waste.
How George writes... First frames - hand writing some chars.
boy were you wrong about the show teaching us more about the walkers lol. They blew it
They blew it right from episode 1 season 1 when they missed the chance to show us that they had a proper language and such. In the show they never even spoke once despite multiple scenes where they appeared, it just shows how people were foolish to expect the show to portray them anything like the books do when they missed the opportunity from the get go.
So in the books the others don’t break swords when they clash with them that are not valerian like in the show?
Moka A. They can do that, but it's a thing they do at will and not immediately. Te white walker decided to duel him without breaking his sword until the very end.
Swords break over time. Remember in this video how it mentions that the steel blade became coated in frost? That's what it is in the show. It's not like a magical "disintegrate weapons" enchantment or something, it's simply supernaturally extreme cold from the Other's blade that freezes the steel and makes it more and more brittle as a result, until eventually it shatters.
Everyone wants to rebuild the Hp Lovecrft type characters and make them more human
I don't see the connection between White Walkers and Lovecraft
I wonder if there is a connection between Ghost and the Others? Both being silent.
The entire season 8 should've been about the white walkers imo and then season 9 would be for the throne. Which is why we needed more seasons sigh.
After the previous episode, the show writers completely fucked them up.